A few months ago there was a heated debate among us about the merits of winning vs. losing meaningless games.
I was criticized for preferring a loss to a win.
I would like to revisit that discussion to see if people's opinions have changed or if they still feel the same now as they did then.
I felt that losing was painful but would benefit the Giants in the long run. I feel that losing was the culmination of an awful year and that an additional loss would be forgotten and insignificant. However, a loss could aid the Giants in obtaining a better draft position.
I still feel that way and wish that we had lost at least one of the games vs. the Packers, Eagles, or the Patriots.
Drafts aren’t guaranteed, you play every game to win.
The Commies gave the game away against us because they couldn’t hold on to the football.
I’ll say what I say every time someone whines about draft positioning this year. Be happy it’s 6 and not 10 or lower. We lost games against Buffalo, the Jets and the Rams that by any measure should have been wins.
That all said, the league needs to fix this. There should be no reward for losing, none. The fact that people even consider this means the goal of competition in this case is in question.
If they can't improve the team with that, then losing a couple more games would only mean that they have a higher pick to blow.
The Giants are drafting 6th.
They may miss out on the top (4) QBs and a generational wide receiver. This doesn't bother you?
Even if you do not want the QBs, the Giants would be able to trade the pick for a ransom.
This draft could have been transforming and established the Giants for years to come.
I would trade a loss for that opportunity
They are absolutely trying their best to lose games.
But at 2-8 I wanted them to lose out and was disappointed they didn't... More so today
Hoping another team makes a mistake, or wanting your team to have to expend additional resources to move up, isn't very wise or sound strategy.
When your team has either clinched or is eliminated, there's no logical downside to treating those games like exhibitions and prioritizing reps for young players over winning.
There's no magical momentum fairy that rewards you for winning meaningless games, and carries over good karma to the next year.
You know what helps you the next year? Better players.
Mrs. Eric says 2 of the top 4 quarterbacks will stink.
Everyone hates DJ but remember 3 things
the coaches watched every game 2022 and the films many times and they liked him
he took the team to the playoffs
the team knows the medicals on his neck, we don't
We might be better off with one of the qb's we may be better off with Odunze or Nabors or a trade down for a corner and another receiver
We will know before the 2025 draft
Drafts aren’t guaranteed, you play every game to win.
To be clear, nobody is suggesting the Giants tank or throw games. This is a discussion of whether a win or a loss benefits the team more.
We can all agree - at least all of the sane posters - that NFL teams do not take the field trying to lose any game.
The Giants are drafting 6th.
They may miss out on the top (4) QBs and a generational wide receiver. This doesn't bother you?
Even if you do not want the QBs, the Giants would be able to trade the pick for a ransom.
This draft could have been transforming and established the Giants for years to come.
I would trade a loss for that opportunity
I will kindly ask you to go root for another team. I do not turn on games to root for a loss for any reason.
If you do root for losses, then kindly close you BBI account and go somewhere else.
Thanks in advance.
On the actual outcome of the game. This is a strange argument - as if wanting them to win or lose makes any damn difference at all.
Lol. The "worthless wins" argument is a yearly thing.
Why? Because this team is trash. Always picking high and never proving a thing or changing anything.
At least the other day we were arguing if the Vikings game meant anything or not. Hahahaha.
Garbage
Agreed, its only purpose is to put people on teams so when the arguing ensues you can pull up a thread from 9 months ago to make a point.
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So it is your opinion that the Giants are better off having won those games?
The Giants are drafting 6th.
They may miss out on the top (4) QBs and a generational wide receiver. This doesn't bother you?
Even if you do not want the QBs, the Giants would be able to trade the pick for a ransom.
This draft could have been transforming and established the Giants for years to come.
I would trade a loss for that opportunity
I will kindly ask you to go root for another team. I do not turn on games to root for a loss for any reason.
If you do root for losses, then kindly close you BBI account and go somewhere else.
Thanks in advance.
Stop being a tool. He can be a fan anyway he wants and you don’t have a say in that.
However, you should question your commitment to winning as you are willing to perpetuate mediocrity for your satisfaction.
Nobody wants the Giants to lose. However, when a team has nothing to gain from a win and something to gain from a loss it makes sense to appreciate a loss.
When the Giants are bad all you have to hope for is improvement and the next year. A better draft positioning will do that.
There is nothing wrong with routing for the Giants to improve and become a champion.
Drafts aren’t guaranteed, you play every game to win.
And you don’t think we wouldn’t have taken AT anyways?
If they can't improve the team with that, then losing a couple more games would only mean that they have a higher pick to blow.
You’re mistaken. We picked 25th last year, remember?
The Giants are drafting 6th.
They may miss out on the top (4) QBs and a generational wide receiver. This doesn't bother you?
Even if you do not want the QBs, the Giants would be able to trade the pick for a ransom.
This draft could have been transforming and established the Giants for years to come.
I would trade a loss for that opportunity
Bingo!
Quote:
So it is your opinion that the Giants are better off having won those games?
The Giants are drafting 6th.
They may miss out on the top (4) QBs and a generational wide receiver. This doesn't bother you?
Even if you do not want the QBs, the Giants would be able to trade the pick for a ransom.
This draft could have been transforming and established the Giants for years to come.
I would trade a loss for that opportunity
I will kindly ask you to go root for another team. I do not turn on games to root for a loss for any reason.
If you do root for losses, then kindly close you BBI account and go somewhere else.
Thanks in advance.
Don’t be an AH
My issue, however, was not about rooting for wins or losses. My issue was with those posters who insisted that winning actually had some long-term value and that was good for the team/organization.
Nothing could be more witless.
With the amount of turnover expected, and the talent void we have, no momentum was going to carryover because of some "wins" we got with DeVito or Taylor snaps.
If Mara was stupid enough to fire Daboll because he couldn't produce back-to-back miracles, that would just have been another reminder how inept Mara is.
So, now we are the 6th pick in the lottery - aka no man's land.
Drafts aren’t guaranteed, you play every game to win.
+1.
If you think it’s going to be one way, it’s usually not. Just win. Have your players do well. It not only helps your teams mentality but their trade prospects as well. It’s a team sport, one hot prospect won’t change it all unless he’s truly special. The track record is that it’s all over the place. If you are trying to lose, even if you draft “that guy” he’ll be in an environment of losers. And he’ll never live up to his potential around losers.
I would much rather have the first, second, or third picks with the opportunity to select one of the top three players.
Or an opportunity to trade the pick for multiple other picks.
That is how you improve the team.
Failure allows for a complete overhaul, mediocrity breeds mediocrity.
I think DeVito should have been the starter no matter what. Taylor was not coming back and/or we already know what he is. Why use him in pointless games?
Grey should have been given more reps.
That’s not purposely losing, it’s building long term.
To the OP, yes and no. I believe that beating the Eagles is good for the team overall long term. Continuing to lose to the same team over and over plays with your head. But you are correct getting a better pick should help the team.
For the record, I was rooting for losses from the DJ pick 6 on the goal line against the Seahawks.
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In comment 16445938 Archer said:
Quote:
So it is your opinion that the Giants are better off having won those games?
The Giants are drafting 6th.
They may miss out on the top (4) QBs and a generational wide receiver. This doesn't bother you?
Even if you do not want the QBs, the Giants would be able to trade the pick for a ransom.
This draft could have been transforming and established the Giants for years to come.
I would trade a loss for that opportunity
I will kindly ask you to go root for another team. I do not turn on games to root for a loss for any reason.
If you do root for losses, then kindly close you BBI account and go somewhere else.
.
Thanks in advance.
Don’t be an AH
Too bad. Whining about winning is bullshit. Do you watch games to see them lose? I bet you don't. Think I'm an asshole? I think people that want to see the team lose are.
I was quite polite. You might try it.
You might be able to convince me...losing to a team like the jaguars....a team you play every 4 years, a team who has yet to win anything....and draft has 3 players and you will fall to 5th.
Knowing you are going to battle with people you know do not quit.....means more than any draft pick
If they can't improve the team with that, then losing a couple more games would only mean that they have a higher pick to blow.
Can't argue with this. And insofar as the OL drafts, oooofaa!!!
Drafts aren’t guaranteed, you play every game to win.
They could have drafted all but one player with the 2nd pick in that draft, including Andrew Thomas if they were so inclined.
They also could have traded that pick to someone else who wanted Chase Young and still landed Thomas, plus additional draft picks.
Assuming you have a competent front office, having the higher pick is always better, and that’s just as simple as having more options and better odds.
If you believe in Schoen and Daboll, it is unarguable that from a draft perspective they would have been better off losing every single game in 2023.
Of course, I neither expect nor want the players and coaches to give up.
I'm a fan hoping for an outcome. I have no impact.
As it turns out 75%+ of the time, watching a Giants game on Sunday requires me making sacrifices and pissing people off (i.e., my wife) given our schedules with kids' sports, extended family obligations, etc.
So this hope of mine doesn't require me to turn on the TV and applaud the NYG opposition. I simply stop making the sacrifices I normally need to make to watch.
It works just fine for me. And I'm comfortable with the concept that reasonable minds can disagree.
What I'll never understand are the rubes who feel the need to tell people to go root for another team, or act like they're somehow a better fan because they're cheering heart and soul for utterly meaningless victories.
Even better when they double-down at a time when the NYG need a quarterback, are sitting at 6, and are facing a pricetag of a future #1 +++ to move up just 2-3 places to get what they need.
I truly don't get it. Root for whatever you want. But being simple-minded doesn't make you one iota better than anybody else.
Quote:
So it is your opinion that the Giants are better off having won those games?
The Giants are drafting 6th.
They may miss out on the top (4) QBs and a generational wide receiver. This doesn't bother you?
Even if you do not want the QBs, the Giants would be able to trade the pick for a ransom.
This draft could have been transforming and established the Giants for years to come.
I would trade a loss for that opportunity
I will kindly ask you to go root for another team. I do not turn on games to root for a loss for any reason.
If you do root for losses, then kindly close you BBI account and go somewhere else.
Thanks in advance.
What an idiotic comment. Someone has a different opinion, so choose to be a douche to them. Nice
Tanking is a terrible practice that does more harm than good to a team. The players, coaches, staff, etc. need to continue to develop and improve even if they've piled up losses during the season and I don't see how they do that if they decide to stop competing.
The Giants are drafting 6th.
They may miss out on the top (4) QBs and a generational wide receiver. This doesn't bother you?
Even if you do not want the QBs, the Giants would be able to trade the pick for a ransom.
This draft could have been transforming and established the Giants for years to come.
I would trade a loss for that opportunity
Yes, it is my opinion that winning games is better than losing them.
Teams at the top of the draft tend to stay at the top of the draft, because just having a higher pick guarantees nothing.
We played this game back during the Chase Young game when everyone was convinced that Washington actually "won" because they guaranteed a higher draft pick. The Giants got the better player, and Washington never had a winning team with that particular "generational talent" on their roster.
Bad teams stay bad because their systems suck. Winning helps establish a better system. Winning games should be the priority.