A few months ago there was a heated debate among us about the merits of winning vs. losing meaningless games.
I was criticized for preferring a loss to a win.
I would like to revisit that discussion to see if people's opinions have changed or if they still feel the same now as they did then.
I felt that losing was painful but would benefit the Giants in the long run. I feel that losing was the culmination of an awful year and that an additional loss would be forgotten and insignificant. However, a loss could aid the Giants in obtaining a better draft position.
I still feel that way and wish that we had lost at least one of the games vs. the Packers, Eagles, or the Patriots.
I do not question your commitment to the Giants and you have no right to question mine.
I want the Giants to win and I cannot tolerate mediocrity.
I think that you are a narcissist and totally about your satisfaction.
As for playing football, I played Division 1 at Tulane and I chose my career rather than pursuing football.
I also competed in MMA and boxing.
I know that the players and coaches always want to win. I am responding as a fan, not a player. There is no way that anyone could convince me that NE making that field goal rather than missing it was positive.
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So it is your opinion that the Giants are better off having won those games?
The Giants are drafting 6th.
They may miss out on the top (4) QBs and a generational wide receiver. This doesn't bother you?
Even if you do not want the QBs, the Giants would be able to trade the pick for a ransom.
This draft could have been transforming and established the Giants for years to come.
I would trade a loss for that opportunity
Yes, it is my opinion that winning games is better than losing them.
Teams at the top of the draft tend to stay at the top of the draft, because just having a higher pick guarantees nothing.
We played this game back during the Chase Young game when everyone was convinced that Washington actually "won" because they guaranteed a higher draft pick. The Giants got the better player, and Washington never had a winning team with that particular "generational talent" on their roster.
Bad teams stay bad because their systems suck. Winning helps establish a better system. Winning games should be the priority.
This is an extremely simplistic take.
Bad teams stay bad because they are run poorly. Wins are a byproduct of preparation, efficiency, and sound decision-making, not vice-versa. A couple of wins with a dumbass meme QB have no impact whatsoever on the system that is in place. It's honestly baffling that so many people seem to think winning 6 games instead of 3 last year is going to have any impact whatsoever on the fortunes of the Giants moving forward.
And again, using the Chase Young example, let's say the Giants had lost that game and gotten the 2nd overall pick. There's no rule that said they HAD to draft Chase Young with it.
What if, instead of drafting Young, the Giants recognized the value in trading that pick to a team that really wanted Young? Maybe Washington, an organization (at the time) run by complete fucking bozos, would have paid a small fortune to move up to #2 for him?
DOH! I try to remember that for future.
Some believe that those wins at the end of the season were more beneficial than losses.
There came a point last year where I was openly rooting for losses. Ideally, competing but losing in the end. I saw losing as the path that would put us in the best position to improve our team, and still believe that.
If we were going to win down the stretch, I wanted it to be a dominating performance I could feel really good about. Ugly wins down the stretch did absolutely nothing for me --I couldn't feel good about the team's performance despite a 'W' on the score card, and it put us one step further away from having stronger better options in the draft.
That's how I felt, and still do.
The question is about what you were rooting for as a fan, not what the team should do. NFL teams do not tank. Nobody is suggesting they do or should.
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We wound up with Andrew Thomas over Chase Young…
Drafts aren’t guaranteed, you play every game to win.
To be clear, nobody is suggesting the Giants tank or throw games. This is a discussion of whether a win or a loss benefits the team more.
We can all agree - at least all of the sane posters - that NFL teams do not take the field trying to lose any game.
Thank You!!!
This notion that because you're rooting for draft position, you're suggesting the team should tank, is insane.
We all get it -the players and coaches are not thinking of tanking.
Rooting for draft position is simply rooting for what one thinks is best for the long-term future of the team. I find it very hard to understand how anyone could prefer the catastrophic 2023 victories over the Pats and Commanders over having the 1.02 or 1.03 in the draft. Would you rather have the wins on the Giant's historical record or be in position to draft a potential franchise QB and have hope for the future (without trading away future premium draft picks I might add)?
We won games we should have lost because we have a HC who will not accept losing. We should want that.
Luckily, that's never been the argument.
Drafts aren’t guaranteed, you play every game to win.
You can pretty much end the thread right here. I think the best GMs can get past not having the top pick. How good is your talent eval? Are Caleb, Jayden sure things? Too many factors. As a coach that's been taught to win all the time, can't expect Daboll to try and lose.
I'd happily trade those Devito wins and the meaningless win vs the Eagles to get a crack at a franchise QB in this draft.
Don't blame the players or coaches for trying to win though. The only brightside to those wins is it shows the team didn't quit on Daboll and the floor for the team is higher than the Judge/Schumur years.
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if other fans root for wins in lost seasons. What difference does it make? Me rooting for a win has absolutely zero impact on the outcome. If the argument is that the coaches and/or players should want to lose, then you’ve totally lost me.
Luckily, that's never been the argument.
Agreed.
However if it were the argument, I definitely see more vitriol from the pro-wins fans. The classic, "if you're rooting for losses, you're not a true Giants fan" crowd. WTF.
I'd happily trade those Devito wins and the meaningless win vs the Eagles to get a crack at a franchise QB in this draft.
Don't blame the players or coaches for trying to win though. The only brightside to those wins is it shows the team didn't quit on Daboll and the floor for the team is higher than the Judge/Schumur years.
ITA. At the end of the day, the players and coaches are trying to win if they haven’t totally checked out. (I guess that explains the ridiculous decision to play Tyrod Taylor over Tommy Devito.) But I didn’t understand fans not looking at the bigger picture since it’s obvious that late season victories don’t carry over in any meaningful way.
The Green Bay win was a complete disaster for their draft position.
There is a short answer key here - if you have ever posted "please go root for another team," then you are actually the asshole in the conversation. Nobody appointed you the keeper of all that is truth. You appointed yourself.
Losing games doesn't always lead to anything more positive than winning them. All losing does is breed more losing IMO