It's going to be a massive bill for someone. Probably an insurance company. This might put them out of business.
Without getting too knee deep into maritime law, the moving ship is responsible when it hits a stationary object. Owner of at-fault vessel will be responsible (and thus their insurer).
It's going to be a massive bill for someone. Probably an insurance company. This might put them out of business.
Without getting too knee deep into maritime law, the moving ship is responsible when it hits a stationary object. Owner of at-fault vessel will be responsible (and thus their insurer).
Yep all proportional to amount of the fault of each party in the incident that the court assigns...
the support beam. It was almost a direct hit. I don't see how anyone steering the ship could be that off.
The bridge immediately came down. Those poor people driving on the bridge at that time.
Is it possible the container ship lost power? No steering?
That is exactly what happened. They lost the generators for some reason. I have had it happen several times. Lose electricity and you lose everything.. steering, main engine, lights. Totally helpless. Takes several minutes to get the generators on line, reset the pumps and machinery and get the main engine to restart. And it is pitch dark in the engine room until the EDG comes on line (emergency Diesel generator).
The emergency Diesel generator takes about 20-30 seconds to sense total electrical failure and powers ups some essential machinery, like lights and the smaller machines necessary to restart the main gennies....
Good info - EDG kicking in would explain the thick smoke.
RE: RE: RE: RE: From the live feed video, it looked like the ship purposely hit
the support beam. It was almost a direct hit. I don't see how anyone steering the ship could be that off.
The bridge immediately came down. Those poor people driving on the bridge at that time.
Is it possible the container ship lost power? No steering?
That is exactly what happened. They lost the generators for some reason. I have had it happen several times. Lose electricity and you lose everything.. steering, main engine, lights. Totally helpless. Takes several minutes to get the generators on line, reset the pumps and machinery and get the main engine to restart. And it is pitch dark in the engine room until the EDG comes on line (emergency Diesel generator).
The emergency Diesel generator takes about 20-30 seconds to sense total electrical failure and powers ups some essential machinery, like lights and the smaller machines necessary to restart the main gennies....
Good info - EDG kicking in would explain the thick smoke.
No EDG is small, maybe a V-8 truck size engine about 300kw. That big plume was either the main generators starting or the main engine starting. My guess is the main (propulsion) engine as the lights were already back on and the size of the plume.
The main generators are the size of locomotive engines - about 3000kw (IIRC) - varies according to design and expected load of ship.
the support beam. It was almost a direct hit. I don't see how anyone steering the ship could be that off.
The bridge immediately came down. Those poor people driving on the bridge at that time.
Is it possible the container ship lost power? No steering?
The ship definitely lost power a couple of times before hitting the stanchion. It also appeared like there was smoke billowing out of the rear of the ship. Awful tragedy.
Shipping Cargo will go through either Philly or Norfolk until the bridge remnants are removed from the channel. Some may go through Wilmington Delaware - depends on size of ship and draft....
the support beam. It was almost a direct hit. I don't see how anyone steering the ship could be that off.
The bridge immediately came down. Those poor people driving on the bridge at that time.
Is it possible the container ship lost power? No steering?
That is exactly what happened. They lost the generators for some reason. I have had it happen several times. Lose electricity and you lose everything.. steering, main engine, lights. Totally helpless. Takes several minutes to get the generators on line, reset the pumps and machinery and get the main engine to restart. And it is pitch dark in the engine room until the EDG comes on line (emergency Diesel generator).
The emergency Diesel generator takes about 20-30 seconds to sense total electrical failure and powers ups some essential machinery, like lights and the smaller machines necessary to restart the main gennies....
Good info - EDG kicking in would explain the thick smoke.
No EDG is small, maybe a V-8 truck size engine about 300kw. That big plume was either the main generators starting or the main engine starting. My guess is the main (propulsion) engine as the lights were already back on and the size of the plume.
The main generators are the size of locomotive engines - about 3000kw (IIRC) - varies according to design and expected load of ship.
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Shipping Cargo will go through either Philly or Norfolk until the bridge remnants are removed from the channel. Some may go through Wilmington Delaware - depends on size of ship and draft....
Or Port of Newark - largest on the east coast
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: From the live feed video, it looked like the ship purposely hit
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
Shipping Cargo will go through either Philly or Norfolk until the bridge remnants are removed from the channel. Some may go through Wilmington Delaware - depends on size of ship and draft....
Or Port of Newark - largest on the east coast
Could be. I would expect Norfolk as you pass it on the way to Baltimore. Really depends on railroad connections and where the cargo going into Baltimore is bound for - Ohio, Maryland, western PA....
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: From the live feed video, it looked like the ship purposely hit
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
Yes, which could also help to protect other harbors and bridges as well - thanks
To whoever guessed about traffic being stopped, you were right.
Quote:
Gov. Wes Moore confirms that the ship's crew issued a mayday and communicated they were experiencing a power issue, enabling transportation officials to halt traffic over the bridge. "These people are heroes. They saved lives last night," Moore said.
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
Yes, which could also help to protect other harbors and bridges as well - thanks
Don't hold your breath. Would involve billions and billions of dollars that does not exist. They may identify bridges with higher chances of allisions but the chances of port authorities acting are slim. It is a numbers game and these incidents, while dramatic in size, are extremely rare.
To whoever guessed about traffic being stopped, you were right.
Quote:
Gov. Wes Moore confirms that the ship's crew issued a mayday and communicated they were experiencing a power issue, enabling transportation officials to halt traffic over the bridge. "These people are heroes. They saved lives last night," Moore said.
Twitter link - ( New Window )
That is truly fast action by the bridge authorities - remarkably fast..
To whoever guessed about traffic being stopped, you were right.
Quote:
Gov. Wes Moore confirms that the ship's crew issued a mayday and communicated they were experiencing a power issue, enabling transportation officials to halt traffic over the bridge. "These people are heroes. They saved lives last night," Moore said.
Twitter link - ( New Window )
I had heard that earlier but am glad to hear it was confirmed.
Question - Following the Sunshine Skyway collapse in St. Petersburg, they built piers further away from the bridge piers themselves for the new bridge. Kind of like “bumpers” if you will. Could these have prevented such a collision in Baltimore?
Question - Following the Sunshine Skyway collapse in St. Petersburg, they built piers further away from the bridge piers themselves for the new bridge. Kind of like “bumpers” if you will. Could these have prevented such a collision in Baltimore?
Maybe - see above reply I made to blufin(?). You can never make anything bullet proof. It is possible a fendering system(not bumper) may have deflected the ship to another section of the span, unless it ran aground before. I do not know the depth of the water outside the main channel. Looks like the ship was drawing 12.2 meters (40 feet) at the time.
For those who are interested - check out "What's Going On With Shipping" on Youtube with Sal Mercogliano. Sal knows his stuff. I am sure Sal will have great insight and info, into this incident.
An aside - if they could stop traffic, why didn’t they pull the construction crew from the bridge? Link - ( New Window )
The whole thing happened in a couple minutes. Who was available to go out to warn the workers in that amount of time - probably seconds from being alerted to the crash. Takes 1 minute to travel 1 mile at 60 mph...
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
I like that concept alot but but I have to say as a project manager in the industrial construction industry over 10 years, that type of mitigation effort would be the first thing VE'd (value engineering) out of the design to reduce cost and open up a path way to low bidding efforts. Risk assessment teams would deem this as a "low probability incident"
Instead would be some controls/FMIC sensor & alarm system that would trigger when the ships trajectory would be monitored and assumed to make impact
I'm sure that will all come up though.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: From the live feed video, it looked like the ship purposely hit
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
I like that concept alot but but I have to say as a project manager in the industrial construction industry over 10 years, that type of mitigation effort would be the first thing VE'd (value engineering) out of the design to reduce cost and open up a path way to low bidding efforts. Risk assessment teams would deem this as a "low probability incident"
Instead would be some controls/FMIC sensor & alarm system that would trigger when the ships trajectory would be monitored and assumed to make impact
I'm sure that will all come up though.
Yes, I agree. Cost vs mitigation would be ruled out as inappropriate. Not sure a sensor system would be effective. Warning who? and who would pay attention. Once you are on that bridge you are stuck(not to poo-poo it).
Check this out - as there has been much discussion of how this incident was similar to a 1980 Tampa bridge collapse, I did a quick reading of what happened in that collision and found this picture. This guy's car managed to stop one foot from the edge. Crazy.
Check this out - as there has been much discussion of how this incident was similar to a 1980 Tampa bridge collapse, I did a quick reading of what happened in that collision and found this picture. This guy's car managed to stop one foot from the edge. Crazy.
To whoever guessed about traffic being stopped, you were right.
Quote:
Gov. Wes Moore confirms that the ship's crew issued a mayday and communicated they were experiencing a power issue, enabling transportation officials to halt traffic over the bridge. "These people are heroes. They saved lives last night," Moore said.
Twitter link - ( New Window )
This is a good thread -- also helpful to know the approach stands should still work. I thought about whether they would want to make the new bridge have more vertical clearance, but the Bay Bridge only has 2 more feet of clearance at 186 feet, so it's unlikely they will divert from the previous dimensions that provided 184 feet. Hopefully the approach spans being intact allows them to speed up the rebuild.
Check this out - as there has been much discussion of how this incident was similar to a 1980 Tampa bridge collapse, I did a quick reading of what happened in that collision and found this picture. This guy's car managed to stop one foot from the edge. Crazy.
It was in St Pete’s, I’ve seen the remains of the bridge when crossing over into Palmetto from Tampa. That incident was caused by heavy fog. Or at least that’s what is said.
But how close was the part of the bridge that it was supposed to go under, or over I guess if there are tunnels. I can’t get a grasp on how far off target this thing was.
An illustration:
Greg, thanks much for this picture. It explains a lot. The main span of the bridge is 1200 ft or 400 yards. If he was originally headed to dead center, and then had the 225 yd wind driven drift as you suggest, that puts him dead on into the pier. In retrospect, should he have been originally heading at a slight angle into the wind? Though i doubt anyone expects this kind of catastrophe to happen.
live near Baltimore. It's a terrible tragedy. Rescue operations are underway in a desperate search for survivors. Prayers to them and their families and friends.
But how close was the part of the bridge that it was supposed to go under, or over I guess if there are tunnels. I can’t get a grasp on how far off target this thing was.
An illustration:
Greg, thanks much for this picture. It explains a lot. The main span of the bridge is 1200 ft or 400 yards. If he was originally headed to dead center, and then had the 225 yd wind driven drift as you suggest, that puts him dead on into the pier. In retrospect, should he have been originally heading at a slight angle into the wind? Though i doubt anyone expects this kind of catastrophe to happen.
Yes there would have been a touch of leeway added to the base course - maybe a degree or two while transiting the channel. You also need to add in the set caused by the current. There are other factors too - effect of the pressure built up by the bow wave against sides of the channel(minimal likely). Depending on how the containers are stacked, the wind may attempt to twist the ship. The load looks pretty even (one end is not that much higher than the other it appears).
But another thing. They dropped the port anchor, in an attempt to pull the bow to port(left) and slow the advance. But at 8 or 9 kts(I believe the speed of advance at the blackout) it would have been slight versus the weight of the ship and forward momentum.
He may have been better off trying to ground the ship out of the channel - but then tearing the bottom might have caused oil pollution. I don't know what type of bottom is there, mud, sand, rocky...?
All these factors and choices will be discussed and weighed in the NTSB report.
Thank God this took place in the middle of the night...imagine had this occurred @ 4:30 PM during the work week? It reminds me of the '89 quake in the Bay that occurred during rush hour...thankfully so many people were home for the Giants-A's World Series or the casualty number would have been much, much higher.
Without getting too knee deep into maritime law, the moving ship is responsible when it hits a stationary object. Owner of at-fault vessel will be responsible (and thus their insurer).
Quote:
It's going to be a massive bill for someone. Probably an insurance company. This might put them out of business.
Without getting too knee deep into maritime law, the moving ship is responsible when it hits a stationary object. Owner of at-fault vessel will be responsible (and thus their insurer).
Yep all proportional to amount of the fault of each party in the incident that the court assigns...
Link - ( New Window )
Seriously??
Quote:
In comment 16446224 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
the support beam. It was almost a direct hit. I don't see how anyone steering the ship could be that off.
The bridge immediately came down. Those poor people driving on the bridge at that time.
Is it possible the container ship lost power? No steering?
That is exactly what happened. They lost the generators for some reason. I have had it happen several times. Lose electricity and you lose everything.. steering, main engine, lights. Totally helpless. Takes several minutes to get the generators on line, reset the pumps and machinery and get the main engine to restart. And it is pitch dark in the engine room until the EDG comes on line (emergency Diesel generator).
The emergency Diesel generator takes about 20-30 seconds to sense total electrical failure and powers ups some essential machinery, like lights and the smaller machines necessary to restart the main gennies....
Good info - EDG kicking in would explain the thick smoke.
Quote:
In comment 16446247 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16446224 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
the support beam. It was almost a direct hit. I don't see how anyone steering the ship could be that off.
The bridge immediately came down. Those poor people driving on the bridge at that time.
Is it possible the container ship lost power? No steering?
That is exactly what happened. They lost the generators for some reason. I have had it happen several times. Lose electricity and you lose everything.. steering, main engine, lights. Totally helpless. Takes several minutes to get the generators on line, reset the pumps and machinery and get the main engine to restart. And it is pitch dark in the engine room until the EDG comes on line (emergency Diesel generator).
The emergency Diesel generator takes about 20-30 seconds to sense total electrical failure and powers ups some essential machinery, like lights and the smaller machines necessary to restart the main gennies....
Good info - EDG kicking in would explain the thick smoke.
No EDG is small, maybe a V-8 truck size engine about 300kw. That big plume was either the main generators starting or the main engine starting. My guess is the main (propulsion) engine as the lights were already back on and the size of the plume.
The main generators are the size of locomotive engines - about 3000kw (IIRC) - varies according to design and expected load of ship.
I am not sure if you are serious...but the video is sped up as you can see by the traffic on the bridge. It is likely a helicopter or plane.
Quote:
the support beam. It was almost a direct hit. I don't see how anyone steering the ship could be that off.
The bridge immediately came down. Those poor people driving on the bridge at that time.
Is it possible the container ship lost power? No steering?
The ship definitely lost power a couple of times before hitting the stanchion. It also appeared like there was smoke billowing out of the rear of the ship. Awful tragedy.
If bridge broken, car no go.
Quote:
Is what this means for cargo on the East Coast.
If bridge broken, car no go.
Well done!
Shipping Cargo will go through either Philly or Norfolk until the bridge remnants are removed from the channel. Some may go through Wilmington Delaware - depends on size of ship and draft....
Quote:
In comment 16446256 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16446247 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16446224 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
the support beam. It was almost a direct hit. I don't see how anyone steering the ship could be that off.
The bridge immediately came down. Those poor people driving on the bridge at that time.
Is it possible the container ship lost power? No steering?
That is exactly what happened. They lost the generators for some reason. I have had it happen several times. Lose electricity and you lose everything.. steering, main engine, lights. Totally helpless. Takes several minutes to get the generators on line, reset the pumps and machinery and get the main engine to restart. And it is pitch dark in the engine room until the EDG comes on line (emergency Diesel generator).
The emergency Diesel generator takes about 20-30 seconds to sense total electrical failure and powers ups some essential machinery, like lights and the smaller machines necessary to restart the main gennies....
Good info - EDG kicking in would explain the thick smoke.
No EDG is small, maybe a V-8 truck size engine about 300kw. That big plume was either the main generators starting or the main engine starting. My guess is the main (propulsion) engine as the lights were already back on and the size of the plume.
The main generators are the size of locomotive engines - about 3000kw (IIRC) - varies according to design and expected load of ship.
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Quote:
In comment 16446438 RCPhoenix said:
Quote:
Is what this means for cargo on the East Coast.
If bridge broken, car no go.
Well done!
Shipping Cargo will go through either Philly or Norfolk until the bridge remnants are removed from the channel. Some may go through Wilmington Delaware - depends on size of ship and draft....
Or Port of Newark - largest on the east coast
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
Quote:
In comment 16446458 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 16446438 RCPhoenix said:
Quote:
Is what this means for cargo on the East Coast.
If bridge broken, car no go.
Well done!
Shipping Cargo will go through either Philly or Norfolk until the bridge remnants are removed from the channel. Some may go through Wilmington Delaware - depends on size of ship and draft....
Or Port of Newark - largest on the east coast
Could be. I would expect Norfolk as you pass it on the way to Baltimore. Really depends on railroad connections and where the cargo going into Baltimore is bound for - Ohio, Maryland, western PA....
Quote:
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
Yes, which could also help to protect other harbors and bridges as well - thanks
Gov. Wes Moore confirms that the ship's crew issued a mayday and communicated they were experiencing a power issue, enabling transportation officials to halt traffic over the bridge. "These people are heroes. They saved lives last night," Moore said.
Twitter link - ( New Window )
125 - Thank you for the contributions to this thread. Your knowledge and experience is greatly appreciated.
Quote:
In comment 16446476 bluefin said:
Quote:
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
Yes, which could also help to protect other harbors and bridges as well - thanks
Don't hold your breath. Would involve billions and billions of dollars that does not exist. They may identify bridges with higher chances of allisions but the chances of port authorities acting are slim. It is a numbers game and these incidents, while dramatic in size, are extremely rare.
Quote:
Gov. Wes Moore confirms that the ship's crew issued a mayday and communicated they were experiencing a power issue, enabling transportation officials to halt traffic over the bridge. "These people are heroes. They saved lives last night," Moore said.
Twitter link - ( New Window )
That is truly fast action by the bridge authorities - remarkably fast..
Quote:
Gov. Wes Moore confirms that the ship's crew issued a mayday and communicated they were experiencing a power issue, enabling transportation officials to halt traffic over the bridge. "These people are heroes. They saved lives last night," Moore said.
Twitter link - ( New Window )
I had heard that earlier but am glad to hear it was confirmed.
An aside - if they could stop traffic, why didn’t they pull the construction crew from the bridge?
Link - ( New Window )
Maybe - see above reply I made to blufin(?). You can never make anything bullet proof. It is possible a fendering system(not bumper) may have deflected the ship to another section of the span, unless it ran aground before. I do not know the depth of the water outside the main channel. Looks like the ship was drawing 12.2 meters (40 feet) at the time.
For those who are interested - check out "What's Going On With Shipping" on Youtube with Sal Mercogliano. Sal knows his stuff. I am sure Sal will have great insight and info, into this incident.
An aside - if they could stop traffic, why didn’t they pull the construction crew from the bridge? Link - ( New Window )
The whole thing happened in a couple minutes. Who was available to go out to warn the workers in that amount of time - probably seconds from being alerted to the crash. Takes 1 minute to travel 1 mile at 60 mph...
Quote:
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
I like that concept alot but but I have to say as a project manager in the industrial construction industry over 10 years, that type of mitigation effort would be the first thing VE'd (value engineering) out of the design to reduce cost and open up a path way to low bidding efforts. Risk assessment teams would deem this as a "low probability incident"
Instead would be some controls/FMIC sensor & alarm system that would trigger when the ships trajectory would be monitored and assumed to make impact
I'm sure that will all come up though.
Quote:
In comment 16446476 bluefin said:
Quote:
appreciate your knowledgeable insights, 125 - just wondering ; in your view, do you think an impact attenuation system exists that could have protected that pier?
Only thing I can think of is a buffer installed around the piers of sufficient size to deflect or stop 100k tons...would involve probably building a caisson around the pier and back filling with dredged materials. This would require constant maintenance to prevent the material from leaking into the channel and shallowing the depth of said channel which would cause additional risks.
FWIW, NTSB (with help of USCG) will likely come up with very good suggestions for mitigation. Remember, this is a 1 in a 100,000 occurrence(maybe an exaggeration of the odds).
I like that concept alot but but I have to say as a project manager in the industrial construction industry over 10 years, that type of mitigation effort would be the first thing VE'd (value engineering) out of the design to reduce cost and open up a path way to low bidding efforts. Risk assessment teams would deem this as a "low probability incident"
Instead would be some controls/FMIC sensor & alarm system that would trigger when the ships trajectory would be monitored and assumed to make impact
I'm sure that will all come up though.
Yes, I agree. Cost vs mitigation would be ruled out as inappropriate. Not sure a sensor system would be effective. Warning who? and who would pay attention. Once you are on that bridge you are stuck(not to poo-poo it).
Whoa.
Quote:
Gov. Wes Moore confirms that the ship's crew issued a mayday and communicated they were experiencing a power issue, enabling transportation officials to halt traffic over the bridge. "These people are heroes. They saved lives last night," Moore said.
Twitter link - ( New Window )
This is a good thread -- also helpful to know the approach stands should still work. I thought about whether they would want to make the new bridge have more vertical clearance, but the Bay Bridge only has 2 more feet of clearance at 186 feet, so it's unlikely they will divert from the previous dimensions that provided 184 feet. Hopefully the approach spans being intact allows them to speed up the rebuild.
On a scale of 1-10? 18
It was in St Pete’s, I’ve seen the remains of the bridge when crossing over into Palmetto from Tampa. That incident was caused by heavy fog. Or at least that’s what is said.
Quote:
pucker factor of the driver was Greg????
On a scale of 1-10? 18
And he still had leakage...
Quote:
But how close was the part of the bridge that it was supposed to go under, or over I guess if there are tunnels. I can’t get a grasp on how far off target this thing was.
An illustration:
Greg, thanks much for this picture. It explains a lot. The main span of the bridge is 1200 ft or 400 yards. If he was originally headed to dead center, and then had the 225 yd wind driven drift as you suggest, that puts him dead on into the pier. In retrospect, should he have been originally heading at a slight angle into the wind? Though i doubt anyone expects this kind of catastrophe to happen.
+1
Quote:
In comment 16446310 bhill410 said:
Quote:
But how close was the part of the bridge that it was supposed to go under, or over I guess if there are tunnels. I can’t get a grasp on how far off target this thing was.
An illustration:
Greg, thanks much for this picture. It explains a lot. The main span of the bridge is 1200 ft or 400 yards. If he was originally headed to dead center, and then had the 225 yd wind driven drift as you suggest, that puts him dead on into the pier. In retrospect, should he have been originally heading at a slight angle into the wind? Though i doubt anyone expects this kind of catastrophe to happen.
Yes there would have been a touch of leeway added to the base course - maybe a degree or two while transiting the channel. You also need to add in the set caused by the current. There are other factors too - effect of the pressure built up by the bow wave against sides of the channel(minimal likely). Depending on how the containers are stacked, the wind may attempt to twist the ship. The load looks pretty even (one end is not that much higher than the other it appears).
But another thing. They dropped the port anchor, in an attempt to pull the bow to port(left) and slow the advance. But at 8 or 9 kts(I believe the speed of advance at the blackout) it would have been slight versus the weight of the ship and forward momentum.
He may have been better off trying to ground the ship out of the channel - but then tearing the bottom might have caused oil pollution. I don't know what type of bottom is there, mud, sand, rocky...?
All these factors and choices will be discussed and weighed in the NTSB report.
Good golly miss Molly. What a time this is...
To be fair we didn't need this thread for you to know that!
Quote:
Great information on this thread. Holy shit. Do I know nothing about a lot of things. Ha.
To be fair we didn't need this thread for you to know that!
But I got the whole Daniel Jones isn't good thing correct