I’m not picking a horse in this QB race and my head spins with every thread that debates the +/- of each. But let’s say they want Penix; 6 is too high for him and they also need to get a top WR from this class. They have little to offer in players to trade (maybe Azeez and Neal have some value) and we don’t want to touch next years’ first.
Is there any plausible scenario where they can land both Penix and a really good WR?
You can't have both.
Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team.
So your options are this:
(1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year.
(2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.
I'd go with option 1...
If this happens he does this, etc. His biggest strength I think we've seen, is to be VERY prepared for all eventualities. It will be absolutely necessary in this draft.
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but think #6 is too high...what is the right place to get him? Should the Giants trade back to #11 and hope he is still there? What is Plan B if he isn't there?
This team can't compete because they don't have at least an average NFL QB. At some point you have to address that. I am not suggesting you pick one just to pick one, but if there is one you like at #6, why get cute and try to move a few spots to get him and risk losing him?
I fall into this category of liking Penix but wouldn't take him #6.
Why? One dimensional. While he can certainly sling it - a plus arm for sure - he's not a dual threat. And I believe if you are drafting a QB in the lottery, that QB should be that dual threat to fit into today's game.
So, I knock Penix for that and see him more as a good day two value pick.
Yeah it would be great to take Penix on Day 2, except he won't be there. QB is the most important and most difficult position in the league to fill. We all see how a team can be crippled when you don't have a good one.
Ideally I would love for the Giants to get an MHJ/Nabers/Odunze at #6 and then Penix later, but later probably means no later than #15. I don't think that is feasible. I think if you want to wait until Day 2 on a QB, you are in the position of getting a developmental prospect even later in the draft (Rattler, Pratt, Milton) and hoping you aren't looking for a guy at the top of the draft again in a couple of years.
I don't think the Giants can afford to get cute about where they take the QB. If you believe in a guy, get him at #6. If you don't, wait until the 3rd or 4th round and get a lottery ticket and hope for the best.
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LAC would still get one of MHJ or Nabers, Odunze if they want.
NYG could then trade with AZ to 4, securing either JJM or DM.
This would probably be the least expensive way to get your QB and hopefully keeping pick 47.
Give the pick 70 to LAC ( maybe pick up their 5th round ) and give AZ next years 2nd round pick.
You keep 47 this year and keep next years 1st.
Get your QB and have a shot at a very good WR at 47.
And if you are stuck at #5 and the QBs go anyway?
No way in hell I do this now.
I agree,that is a draft day call...
keep the lines of communication open...then if someone is still there at 5 you pull the trigger
If this happens he does this, etc. His biggest strength I think we've seen, is to be VERY prepared for all eventualities. It will be absolutely necessary in this draft.
This.
The calls have already been made.
What's going to happen is the Pats, Cardinals, Chargers are all going to make teams sweat it out and attempt to drive up the offer while the clock is ticking.
That's how GMs wind up pulling up QBs in a draft and get criticized later that they reached. It is also how some GMs find their guy.
Not sure how much money Schoen makes but it is on him to figure it out. The other noises in the building are just that, so don't listen to them because their jobs are secure.
Could we trade down a couple spots, select Penix, then use the gains to bounce up from 47 to grab a second tier WR prospect?
This would certainly not be a reason to pass on a QB you believe in.
It's a safe bet the offensive will continue to struggle if they draft a WR and ignore QB.
Are we trying to accumulate talent or build a team?
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The Giants RT situation is up in the air so a left-handed QB would be an added risk. WR is a safer bet.
This would certainly not be a reason to pass on a QB you believe in.
Agree with this. You absolutely can't make QB decisions based on Evan Neal. If he can't pass protect you replace him. Evan Neal at RT is not set in stone for the next 3 years.
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In comment 16450085 US1 Giants said:
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The Giants RT situation is up in the air so a left-handed QB would be an added risk. WR is a safer bet.
This would certainly not be a reason to pass on a QB you believe in.
Agree with this. You absolutely can't make QB decisions based on Evan Neal. If he can't pass protect you replace him. Evan Neal at RT is not set in stone for the next 3 years.
If Penix was the clear-cut best pick at 6 then take him. But forcing a left-handed QB at 6 holds great risk.
A QB drafted will hopefully lead this team for the next decade. If Neal can't cut it, he's out of a job before this season is over.
Injuries can happen to anyone at anytime. Can't make draft choices because you are afraid of injury.
I don't think any poster on this forum is suggesting the Giants just get a QB at #6 regardless of their draft grade. If someone is, I have not seen that posted yet.
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for their two #1s
This!
This +2. No team in between #6 and #11 needs a QB and I doubt anyone lower will trade up to get Penix or Nix. WE pick up their #23 (and maybe more), so we still end up with Penix and the #23 pick
Not what I said but good try.
Draft would look like this in that scenario:
6: Penix
47: Legette/Franklin
Or
6: Penix
28: Mitchell/Coleman (NYG trades 47 and 70 to Buf for 28)
Or
6: Penix
20: Thomas/Mitchell (NYG trades 47, 70 and 2025 second to Pit for 20)
I picked teams we have a strong connection to as trade partners but could see it playing out similarly with other teams.
And it's also looking like a record breaker for QB draft.
To play your game.....figure away the Viking traded down with the Giants.
Crazy....I just hope Daboll and Schoen know what they are doing with regard to the QBs!
QB at 6 (or earlier) and WR in rd2+
We've got a shot at 3 stud WR and 4 QBs (2 of which can be considered studs.)Which means sitting at 6 should yield 1 of those 7 players to the Giants. The true stud QBs will be gone for sure. I don't trust Maye or JJ.
I love the receivers too, but they don't matter without a good QB.
I'm warming up to Penix. The injuries are a little scary, but his arm is unreal. He also seems like a natural leader. It would be great to land a QB without having to trade up.
Agree (and I’m a Penix fan).
Gun to head, I think this a smokescreen. Probably intended to send a message to Ari or NE that we have other QB options if they demand too much for a trade. #6 is a lot more appealing to them than #11 (Min).
“If we trade up, it won’t be for a haul.” That’s the game I think Schoen is playing (just my guess).
Would you trade up for him after taking Odunze or Nabers? Say we could get Penix for pick 47 and 2025 2nd?
Not sure I follow, it’s not a reason to pass on Penix but he doesn’t warrant it? Which is it?
I don't understand the concern over his footwork or his being left handed. You want to ding him for the injuries and for not being a big runner, fair. But anything else is a stretch.
Repeated, for effect: Michael Penix is the best thrower of the football in the 2024 class.
100% not at 6, as I've said I would be thrilled with Odunze/Penix even if it cost us pick 47 and 2025 1st. We could get Penix/Odunze or Nabers for the same price or less as trading up to 3 for Maye.
I don't understand the concern over his footwork or his being left handed. You want to ding him for the injuries and for not being a big runner, fair. But anything else is a stretch.
Repeated, for effect: Michael Penix is the best thrower of the football in the 2024 class.
No he isn't. You can say it in every thread, but that doesn't make it true. Caleb is the best. He has power, touch, different arm angles, his off platform throws are great. The best thrower is Caleb. Maye also throws it nice with a better fluid motion, but Penix is more accurate and advanced. Penix actually moves well in the pocket and after seeing him run so fast yesterday I wonder if him not running was by design to protect from injuries. Being left handed matter. You just think left handed people don't like playing QB? It takes a good OL for a left handed QB. Like Penix on the 49ers would be insane. If I was Miami I would draft Penix. Think he is better than Tua and a great fit because they are already setup for a left handed QB.
This is insanity. You are letting your opinion of Penix speak for you, and trying to rationalize yourself into a point.
Read the sentence again: "you shouldn't draft a QB that the organization believes in because he's left-handed".
You know it's dumb. Stop.
He was receiving ya? I don't know if they had dinner with him or anything. They were definitely there for multiple prospects including Penix and now they are having a private workout/meeting with him too. The interest there is real, but I don't think he would be at 6. Can you imagine getting Odunzr/Nabers and Penix. Terps? Now that would be exciting and as I keep saying it would potentially be done for the same cost or less as a tradeup to 3 for Maye. Potentially Odunze/Nabers and Penix or Maye?
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that says they were there to see Penix, I don't think so. I think they were there for Rome. Just like I think they were at LSU for Nabers. Everyone that says being left handed doesn't matter... It absolutely does. Our OL is a mess and our only true great OL is a LT. You going to move him over to RT and hope he continues to play well? Will he want to? Not saying don't draft him, but you can't draft him at 6. He is QB5 for me and I would grab the stud WR and try and move back up for Penix even if it cost a first next year. Getting Nabers would offset that.
100% not at 6, as I've said I would be thrilled with Odunze/Penix even if it cost us pick 47 and 2025 1st. We could get Penix/Odunze or Nabers for the same price or less as trading up to 3 for Maye.
I would be down for that. Only way I am giving up my 1st next year is if we get a top 3 WR and a top 6 QB.
When they say he didn't work out, they mean he didn't run the 40, 3cone, etc that he already did at the combine. He ran routes for Penix.
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Penix throws the ball better than anyone in this class. He throws it quite a bit better than Maye, something that was on display again yesterday.
I don't understand the concern over his footwork or his being left handed. You want to ding him for the injuries and for not being a big runner, fair. But anything else is a stretch.
Repeated, for effect: Michael Penix is the best thrower of the football in the 2024 class.
No he isn't. You can say it in every thread, but that doesn't make it true. Caleb is the best. He has power, touch, different arm angles, his off platform throws are great. The best thrower is Caleb. Maye also throws it nice with a better fluid motion, but Penix is more accurate and advanced. Penix actually moves well in the pocket and after seeing him run so fast yesterday I wonder if him not running was by design to protect from injuries. Being left handed matter. You just think left handed people don't like playing QB? It takes a good OL for a left handed QB. Like Penix on the 49ers would be insane. If I was Miami I would draft Penix. Think he is better than Tua and a great fit because they are already setup for a left handed QB.
I think Terps means best pure thrower which is different from best arm and best arm talent. And I agree, Penix is the best classic thrower in the draft: that had nothing to do with arm angles, off platform or any of that. That is arm talent. Penix can really spin it at an elite level.
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He was receiving ya? I don't know if they had dinner with him or anything. They were definitely there for multiple prospects including Penix and now they are having a private workout/meeting with him too. The interest there is real, but I don't think he would be at 6. Can you imagine getting Odunzr/Nabers and Penix. Terps? Now that would be exciting and as I keep saying it would potentially be done for the same cost or less as a tradeup to 3 for Maye. Potentially Odunze/Nabers and Penix or Maye?
It'd be even better to get Penix in the 7th round. It feels he's as likely to be available there as he is at 47.
None of the WRs excite me at 6. A WR at 6 likely means Jones is throwing him the ball, and who knows who will be in 2025.
A WR is dependent on a QB getting him the ball. That's just how the sport is designed. Why are we drafting a WR when we don't have a QB?
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In comment 16450466 Amtoft said:
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that says they were there to see Penix, I don't think so. I think they were there for Rome. Just like I think they were at LSU for Nabers. Everyone that says being left handed doesn't matter... It absolutely does. Our OL is a mess and our only true great OL is a LT. You going to move him over to RT and hope he continues to play well? Will he want to? Not saying don't draft him, but you can't draft him at 6. He is QB5 for me and I would grab the stud WR and try and move back up for Penix even if it cost a first next year. Getting Nabers would offset that.
100% not at 6, as I've said I would be thrilled with Odunze/Penix even if it cost us pick 47 and 2025 1st. We could get Penix/Odunze or Nabers for the same price or less as trading up to 3 for Maye.
I would be down for that. Only way I am giving up my 1st next year is if we get a top 3 WR and a top 6 QB.
I agree, I'd go with JJM/Maye for pick 6 or pick 6 plus 2025 2nd and 3rd tops. Odunze/Nabers and Penix for pick 6, 47 and 2025 1st might be the max potential of any possibility. Maye or JJM with Leggette/Franklin/Coleman/Mitchell for pick 6, 47 a future 2nd and 3rd would be good too imo. Obviously, Schoen would have to somehow have a real solid understanding of where Penix was going in the draft and a deal in place to get up there. I think the Saints at 14 would be ideal as I think the Broncos would go Nix and Raiders will go Mitchell or Arnold. We would need to jump the Seahawks, the Colts will go Arnold or Mitchell too so the potential trade spot would be with the Saints imo, might have to give them 2025 1st, 3rd and pick 47 but I would still go for it as it would still be the same cost as trading up to 3 for Maye imo.
I don't understand the concern over his footwork or his being left handed. You want to ding him for the injuries and for not being a big runner, fair. But anything else is a stretch.
Yeah, I don't get the above, either. The NFL is so fast that you can't rely on getting your footwork on the mark many times. So, I tend to like the guys who can throw with skill, power, and accuracy when they don't get to their footwork.
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In comment 16450467 Go Terps said:
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He was receiving ya? I don't know if they had dinner with him or anything. They were definitely there for multiple prospects including Penix and now they are having a private workout/meeting with him too. The interest there is real, but I don't think he would be at 6. Can you imagine getting Odunzr/Nabers and Penix. Terps? Now that would be exciting and as I keep saying it would potentially be done for the same cost or less as a tradeup to 3 for Maye. Potentially Odunze/Nabers and Penix or Maye?
It'd be even better to get Penix in the 7th round. It feels he's as likely to be available there as he is at 47.
None of the WRs excite me at 6. A WR at 6 likely means Jones is throwing him the ball, and who knows who will be in 2025.
A WR is dependent on a QB getting him the ball. That's just how the sport is designed. Why are we drafting a WR when we don't have a QB?
I agree and that's why we would we would need to have a plan in place to get Penix with a deal ready to go.
Here's how it could potentially go:
1. CW
2. JD
3. JJM/Maye
4. Maye/JJM Vikings
5. Nabers
6. Odunze
7. Alt
8. Turner
9. Bowers
10. Fuaga or Fautanu
11. Thomas Jr
12. Nix
13. Mitchell
14. We trade pick 47 and 2025 1st plus maybe 3rd for Penix Jr.
15. Arnold
Boom we got Odunze and Penix for the same cost as trading up for Maye at 3. If we were going to do this then we couldn't just hope Penix slid all the way to 47 imo.
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In comment 16450474 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16450467 Go Terps said:
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?
He was receiving ya? I don't know if they had dinner with him or anything. They were definitely there for multiple prospects including Penix and now they are having a private workout/meeting with him too. The interest there is real, but I don't think he would be at 6. Can you imagine getting Odunzr/Nabers and Penix. Terps? Now that would be exciting and as I keep saying it would potentially be done for the same cost or less as a tradeup to 3 for Maye. Potentially Odunze/Nabers and Penix or Maye?
It'd be even better to get Penix in the 7th round. It feels he's as likely to be available there as he is at 47.
None of the WRs excite me at 6. A WR at 6 likely means Jones is throwing him the ball, and who knows who will be in 2025.
A WR is dependent on a QB getting him the ball. That's just how the sport is designed. Why are we drafting a WR when we don't have a QB?
I agree and that's why we would we would need to have a plan in place to get Penix with a deal ready to go.
Here's how it could potentially go:
1. CW
2. JD
3. JJM/Maye
4. Maye/JJM Vikings
5. Nabers
6. Odunze
7. Alt
8. Turner
9. Bowers
10. Fuaga or Fautanu
11. Thomas Jr
12. Nix
13. Mitchell
14. We trade pick 47 and 2025 1st plus maybe 3rd for Penix Jr.
15. Arnold
Boom we got Odunze and Penix for the same cost as trading up for Maye at 3. If we were going to do this then we couldn't just hope Penix slid all the way to 47 imo.
Oops I meant:
4. MHJ
5. Min trades for JJM/Maye
6.Odunze/Nabers
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You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR.
You can't have both.
Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team.
So your options are this:
(1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year.
(2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.
I think I'm starting to land in the camp of a derivative of (a). Take the WR and then figure out QB later either via FA of future draft. Giants are not competitive in 2024 and sadly not likely in 2025 (at a high level). Elite WR salaries are getting upwards of $30M AAV and so there is nearly as much benefit to saving $ there via draft pick as there is at QB.
Basically I have a whole lot more conviction of Nabers/Odunze/MHJ being very good than I do any of the QBs being above average at the NFL level. I like JJM though for hard so define reasons...
No Offense (no pun intended). But with your view overall on QB's you will always find excuses not to take a QB. QB's are generally reached for. So, if you aren't among the top few, you will always find an excuse to say "I'm more comfortable taking what I believe I know."