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Let’s say for this exercise the Giants want Penix.

Spider56 : 3/29/2024 8:20 am
I’m not picking a horse in this QB race and my head spins with every thread that debates the +/- of each. But let’s say they want Penix; 6 is too high for him and they also need to get a top WR from this class. They have little to offer in players to trade (maybe Azeez and Neal have some value) and we don’t want to touch next years’ first.

Is there any plausible scenario where they can land both Penix and a really good WR?
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...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/29/2024 8:24 am : link
If Joe & Dabs have a strong feeling on Penix, take him @ 6. Don't get cute.
RE: ...  
Spider56 : 3/29/2024 8:28 am : link
In comment 16449818 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
If Joe & Dabs have a strong feeling on Penix, take him @ 6. Don't get cute.


Ok … so then who’s left in the WR pool at 47?
If they like Penix enough, the Giants should use that #1 next year  
ThomasG : 3/29/2024 8:30 am : link
and move back into Rd 1 this year. Take elite WR at #6 and put together a package that you think can work.

But to the OP's question...I think you have to be willing to use that next year #1.
Trade with the Vikings  
JohnB : 3/29/2024 8:31 am : link
for their two #1s
Spider56  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/29/2024 8:33 am : link
You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR.

You can't have both.

Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team.

So your options are this:

(1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year.

(2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.
RE: Spider56  
Mike in NY : 3/29/2024 8:37 am : link
In comment 16449827 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR.

You can't have both.

Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team.

So your options are this:

(1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year.

(2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.


Eric, I don’t envy the position you and the mods will be in around the Draft. The needs far exceed the number of picks and we need high end guys so you can’t do everything this year. Inevitably people are going to crazy when we don’t.
With Penix’s performance yesterday  
JoeyBigBlue : 3/29/2024 8:39 am : link
He’s guaranteed to go in the first round. No chance he falls to the second, with so many teams needing a QB. Your best bet is Penix in the first and a second tier receiver in the second.
Mike in NY  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/29/2024 8:44 am : link
Which is why there could be an option #3 that pisses off more people... trade down and accrue more picks, missing out on Nabers/Odunze and the QB.
I  
AcidTest : 3/29/2024 8:45 am : link
still think it's very unlikely the Giants would take Penix at #6 given his lengthy injury history. Nor should they. But after his workout yesterday he's unlikely to get past the Raiders at #13. And if we trade down, somebody who wants him might then jump in front of us.

The Giants should take one of the "big four" QBs at #6 if possible or perhaps with a small trade up to #5, take their favorite WR at #6, or trade down, in that order.
The best thing. People are taunting this draft as one of the deepest  
George from PA : 3/29/2024 8:45 am : link
For WRs

And it's also looking like a record breaker for QB draft.

To play your game.....figure away the Viking traded down with the Giants.

Crazy....I just hope Daboll and Schoen know what they are doing with regard to the QBs!
RE: Spider56  
BigTymer : 3/29/2024 8:46 am : link
In comment 16449827 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR.

You can't have both.

Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team.

So your options are this:

(1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year.

(2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.


I think I'm starting to land in the camp of a derivative of (a). Take the WR and then figure out QB later either via FA of future draft. Giants are not competitive in 2024 and sadly not likely in 2025 (at a high level). Elite WR salaries are getting upwards of $30M AAV and so there is nearly as much benefit to saving $ there via draft pick as there is at QB.

Basically I have a whole lot more conviction of Nabers/Odunze/MHJ being very good than I do any of the QBs being above average at the NFL level. I like JJM though for hard so define reasons...
RE: I  
GFAN52 : 3/29/2024 8:49 am : link
In comment 16449839 AcidTest said:
Quote:
still think it's very unlikely the Giants would take Penix at #6 given his lengthy injury history. Nor should they. But after his workout yesterday he's unlikely to get past the Raiders at #13. And if we trade down, somebody who wants him might then jump in front of us.

The Giants should take one of the "big four" QBs at #6 if possible or perhaps with a small trade up to #5, take their favorite WR at #6, or trade down, in that order.


This
I depends on many factors but 2 that stand out to me  
UConn4523 : 3/29/2024 8:50 am : link
how much more do we like Penix than Nix, and how far are we willing to wait should one fall? If there’s a big gap between the two than I don’t suspect waiting is an option. If it’s somewhat close I can see them taking WR and pouncing on a chance to trade up to the teens using 47 and future first for whichever player is left.
RE: Mike in NY  
GFAN52 : 3/29/2024 8:52 am : link
In comment 16449838 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Which is why there could be an option #3 that pisses off more people... trade down and accrue more picks, missing out on Nabers/Odunze and the QB.


I'd trade down ONLY if it came with a 2025 1st.
How can we miss out on Nabers/Odunze and the QB?  
UConn4523 : 3/29/2024 8:53 am : link
that would mean Harrison fell and we are going to pass up on that IMO.
RE: Trade with the Vikings  
bluewave : 3/29/2024 8:58 am : link
In comment 16449825 JohnB said:
Quote:
for their two #1s


This!
RE: RE: Trade with the Vikings  
GFAN52 : 3/29/2024 8:59 am : link
In comment 16449859 bluewave said:
Quote:
In comment 16449825 JohnB said:


Quote:


for their two #1s



This!


No thanks.
Is this where we are?  
Dang Man : 3/29/2024 9:03 am : link
Instead of drafting BPA which could be one of three WR at the top of this draft who could be special (I’d venture to guess as close to sure things as possible) we’re potentially forcing a QB pick with Penix who has a history of injuries and mechanics that need cleaning up?
RE: Trade with the Vikings  
Toth029 : 3/29/2024 9:03 am : link
In comment 16449825 JohnB said:
Quote:
for their two #1s

Giants would need much more than those two picks if they dropped 5 spots to 11.
The  
AcidTest : 3/29/2024 9:11 am : link
Giants are in a potentially bad position regarding all six QBs IMO.

There is a real chance Williams, Daniels, Maye, and JJM go in the first five picks. To get one the Giants might have to offer a lot of draft capital to move up, especially since Minnesota seems more than willing to do that to get into the top five.

Assuming Williams, Daniels, Maye, and JJM do go in the top five, the Giants would then either have to overdraft Nix or Penix at #6, or trade down and risk losing both.

If they do the latter and miss out on both, then they would be left with having to draft someone like Rattler or Pratt on day two or just punting the whole QB decision to next year.
RE: Is this where we are?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/29/2024 9:21 am : link
In comment 16449864 Dang Man said:
Quote:
Instead of drafting BPA which could be one of three WR at the top of this draft who could be special (I’d venture to guess as close to sure things as possible) we’re potentially forcing a QB pick with Penix who has a history of injuries and mechanics that need cleaning up?


Welcome to QB hell.
RE: The best thing. People are taunting this draft as one of the deepest  
56goat : 3/29/2024 9:24 am : link
In comment 16449840 George from PA said:
Quote:
For WRs

And it's also looking like a record breaker for QB draft.

To play your game.....figure away the Viking traded down with the Giants.

Crazy....I just hope Daboll and Schoen know what they are doing with regard to the QBs!


"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time"
RE: RE: Is this where we are?  
56goat : 3/29/2024 9:26 am : link
In comment 16449877 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16449864 Dang Man said:


Quote:


Instead of drafting BPA which could be one of three WR at the top of this draft who could be special (I’d venture to guess as close to sure things as possible) we’re potentially forcing a QB pick with Penix who has a history of injuries and mechanics that need cleaning up?



Welcome to QB hell.


That is exactly where we are, hopefully an exit ramp is upcoming.
Penix at 6??  
AROCK1000 : 3/29/2024 9:27 am : link
Now I have really hear it all....he like JJ were 2nd
/3rd round prospects after the season ended.
As to the OP...we can take WR at #6,then trade up during the draft to take Penix late first or early 2nd...for me that wouldn't be much of a reach.
BTW I like Penix  
AROCK1000 : 3/29/2024 9:29 am : link
But I am not sure having Evan Neal at RT would work...
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/29/2024 9:32 am : link
If Jones-Lock-DeVito isn’t QB hell, I sure AF don’t want to know what ‘QB hell’ is.
If they love one of the QBs then go get him  
UberAlias : 3/29/2024 9:40 am : link
But if they just like I’m not passing on one of the elite WRs. Average NFL QBs are a dime a dozen and not so hard to find. It’s the difference makers at the QB position we need to be looking for.
For all the folks that like Penix  
Mike from Ohio : 3/29/2024 9:40 am : link
but think #6 is too high...what is the right place to get him? Should the Giants trade back to #11 and hope he is still there? What is Plan B if he isn't there?

This team can't compete because they don't have at least an average NFL QB. At some point you have to address that. I am not suggesting you pick one just to pick one, but if there is one you like at #6, why get cute and try to move a few spots to get him and risk losing him?
RE: Penix at 6??  
section125 : 3/29/2024 9:40 am : link
In comment 16449888 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
Now I have really hear it all....he like JJ were 2nd
/3rd round prospects after the season ended.
As to the OP...we can take WR at #6,then trade up during the draft to take Penix late first or early 2nd...for me that wouldn't be much of a reach.


The only reason Penix was considered a post round 1 prospect was his medicals - not his talent(IMV). He is as talented throwing the ball as anyone. He is not the scrambler or runner as the others, so that dimension knocks him down a peg in some eyes.
I am clearly no scout nor do I pretend to know the ins and outs of QB play, but I do believe he would be a clear high first rounder if not for the surgeries/injuries and if he had the running element to his game.
RE: Penix at 6??  
Toth029 : 3/29/2024 9:40 am : link
In comment 16449888 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
Now I have really hear it all....he like JJ were 2nd
/3rd round prospects after the season ended.
As to the OP...we can take WR at #6,then trade up during the draft to take Penix late first or early 2nd...for me that wouldn't be much of a reach.


Season ended and JJ was still a Wolverine.

Scouts and then teams (HC and GMs) do deep dives once the player is officially in the draft and the draft boards gradually materialize. JJ didn't rise, coaches and GMs just may like him much more than the media and some fans do. More common than you think. Fyi: Kyler Murray wasn't a top 10 pick, much less #1 overall, until March in 2019.
RE: Mike in NY  
Tom in NY : 3/29/2024 9:46 am : link
In comment 16449838 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Which is why there could be an option #3 that pisses off more people... trade down and accrue more picks, missing out on Nabers/Odunze and the QB.


Eric, you should name Option #3 as the "Nobody's going to be happy" option. ;)
Using past mocks as a guide  
UConn4523 : 3/29/2024 9:48 am : link
for what to do is a preposterous take.
It's not going to take our 2025 1st to move up from 47.  
stoneman : 3/29/2024 9:49 am : link
It will all depend on where Penix is going to land - mid first, late first, top second. His injury history is not going away and his latest workout hype/bump will subside.

Take WR at 6, and make your move for the late QBs if you must. I will be pissed if they give away their 2025 1st for whoever. It will obviously be for the 3rd or 4th QB.
After that pro day Penix is not going to be a late first IMO  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/29/2024 9:51 am : link
.
It would be smart for Schoen to trade to 5 right now  
Rjanyg : 3/29/2024 10:02 am : link
LAC would still get one of MHJ or Nabers, Odunze if they want.

NYG could then trade with AZ to 4, securing either JJM or DM.

This would probably be the least expensive way to get your QB and hopefully keeping pick 47.

Give the pick 70 to LAC ( maybe pick up their 5th round ) and give AZ next years 2nd round pick.

You keep 47 this year and keep next years 1st.

Get your QB and have a shot at a very good WR at 47.
RE: Spider56  
Spider56 : 3/29/2024 10:03 am : link
In comment 16449827 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR.

You can't have both.

Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team.

So your options are this:

(1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year.

(2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.


Guilty as charged … I am hoping someone smarter than me … as I know Schoen and Dabs are, will find a scenario that works. Similar to last year where most were happy with the first 3 picks.
Giants are in a win-win position regarding the draft  
M.S. : 3/29/2024 10:23 am : link

because they just need good players (regardless of position) to fill a bottom-tier NFL roster. So, there shouldn't be a whole lotta angst about this draft. The following are all good outcomes:

(1) Stay at #6 and draft a QB that Joe Schoen / Brian Daboll like.
(2) Stay at #6 and draft a fantastic WR.
(3) Trade down and pick up valuable assets that could be used on at least half a dozen positions.

It's all good.


Penix  
AcidTest : 3/29/2024 10:27 am : link
is a phenomenal deep ball thrower. He could really make Hyatt better by taking full advantage of his speed and ability to stretch the field. I could see that being very attractive to the Giants. The question is his injury history, specifically how many of their concerns about it were allayed by his excellent workout yesterday.
It's going to be  
Scooter185 : 3/29/2024 10:36 am : link
Easier to find a stud WR later in the draft than it will be to find the franchise QB later in the draft

QB at 6 (or earlier) and WR in rd2+
RE: For all the folks that like Penix  
bw in dc : 3/29/2024 10:38 am : link
In comment 16449903 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
but think #6 is too high...what is the right place to get him? Should the Giants trade back to #11 and hope he is still there? What is Plan B if he isn't there?

This team can't compete because they don't have at least an average NFL QB. At some point you have to address that. I am not suggesting you pick one just to pick one, but if there is one you like at #6, why get cute and try to move a few spots to get him and risk losing him?


I fall into this category of liking Penix but wouldn't take him #6.

Why? One dimensional. While he can certainly sling it - a plus arm for sure - he's not a dual threat. And I believe if you are drafting a QB in the lottery, that QB should be that dual threat to fit into today's game.

So, I knock Penix for that and see him more as a good day two value pick.
RE: RE: For all the folks that like Penix  
jvm52106 : 3/29/2024 10:41 am : link
In comment 16449966 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16449903 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


but think #6 is too high...what is the right place to get him? Should the Giants trade back to #11 and hope he is still there? What is Plan B if he isn't there?

This team can't compete because they don't have at least an average NFL QB. At some point you have to address that. I am not suggesting you pick one just to pick one, but if there is one you like at #6, why get cute and try to move a few spots to get him and risk losing him?



I fall into this category of liking Penix but wouldn't take him #6.

Why? One dimensional. While he can certainly sling it - a plus arm for sure - he's not a dual threat. And I believe if you are drafting a QB in the lottery, that QB should be that dual threat to fit into today's game.

So, I knock Penix for that and see him more as a good day two value pick.


I agree with this and the injury history really worries me greatly.
Penix  
TyreeHelmet : 3/29/2024 10:51 am : link
is not lasting to day 2 and I would be surprised if he gets out of the top 15. If you like him enough then you don't mess around by trying to move back.

I could see Tenn, Minny, Denver, Vegas, Pitt, Miami, Seattle all potentially getting him in the first.

QBs like him that can sling it like he does and is a proven winner don't grow on trees.
QB is ALL about projection  
Dave on the UWS : 3/29/2024 11:02 am : link
that's why these guys "rise and fall" between season's end and the draft.
Its the hardest decision any front office has to make.
Take Penix for example. Watching his pro day, he looked pretty damn nimble and clearly his knee, at the moment, is in darn good shape to run a sub 4.5 forty!
His medicals are the ONLY thing that has kept him out of the top 10 discussion.
If you're Schoen, what do you do? For starters, get an up close and personal look at EACH of these guys, including Penix (they are), then decide how to play it best for NY.
You still have next year's #1 in your pocket to put together different type packages.

1. use it to move to 3,4, or 5 for likely Maye or JJ
2. use it to move BACK into the first rd around pick 9 or 10
to take Penix (after taking a WR at 6).

If JS is aggressive enough AND flexible enough, we are NOT in QB hell. It can be resolved in less than 4 weeks.
RE: It would be smart for Schoen to trade to 5 right now  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/29/2024 11:03 am : link
In comment 16449936 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
LAC would still get one of MHJ or Nabers, Odunze if they want.

NYG could then trade with AZ to 4, securing either JJM or DM.

This would probably be the least expensive way to get your QB and hopefully keeping pick 47.

Give the pick 70 to LAC ( maybe pick up their 5th round ) and give AZ next years 2nd round pick.

You keep 47 this year and keep next years 1st.

Get your QB and have a shot at a very good WR at 47.


And if you are stuck at #5 and the QBs go anyway?


No way in hell I do this now.
RE: Spider56  
Sec 103 : 3/29/2024 11:03 am : link
In comment 16449827 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You're falling victim to the same thing I do... you want the QB and the top WR.

You can't have both.

Aside from that, the Giants are not competing for the division this year. At best, they will be a .500 team.

So your options are this:

(1) Take the top WR at #6 and try to get the QB next year.

(2) Get the QB this year, possibly by trading away next year's #1, and get another WR when you can.


I'd go with option 1...
Schoen should (and probably  
Dave on the UWS : 3/29/2024 11:20 am : link
will) have MULTIPLE scenarios set up with a number of teams.
If this happens he does this, etc. His biggest strength I think we've seen, is to be VERY prepared for all eventualities. It will be absolutely necessary in this draft.
Can't draft a QB just because he is a QB  
US1 Giants : 3/29/2024 11:45 am : link
The WR in this draft are too good. They could try to trade up into the 1st round after taking a WR. It would cost a lot so they would have to love Penix. They can't pass on these WR and force a QB at 6.
RE: RE: For all the folks that like Penix  
Mike from Ohio : 3/29/2024 11:46 am : link
In comment 16449966 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16449903 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


but think #6 is too high...what is the right place to get him? Should the Giants trade back to #11 and hope he is still there? What is Plan B if he isn't there?

This team can't compete because they don't have at least an average NFL QB. At some point you have to address that. I am not suggesting you pick one just to pick one, but if there is one you like at #6, why get cute and try to move a few spots to get him and risk losing him?



I fall into this category of liking Penix but wouldn't take him #6.

Why? One dimensional. While he can certainly sling it - a plus arm for sure - he's not a dual threat. And I believe if you are drafting a QB in the lottery, that QB should be that dual threat to fit into today's game.

So, I knock Penix for that and see him more as a good day two value pick.


Yeah it would be great to take Penix on Day 2, except he won't be there. QB is the most important and most difficult position in the league to fill. We all see how a team can be crippled when you don't have a good one.

Ideally I would love for the Giants to get an MHJ/Nabers/Odunze at #6 and then Penix later, but later probably means no later than #15. I don't think that is feasible. I think if you want to wait until Day 2 on a QB, you are in the position of getting a developmental prospect even later in the draft (Rattler, Pratt, Milton) and hoping you aren't looking for a guy at the top of the draft again in a couple of years.

I don't think the Giants can afford to get cute about where they take the QB. If you believe in a guy, get him at #6. If you don't, wait until the 3rd or 4th round and get a lottery ticket and hope for the best.
Eric  
AROCK1000 : 3/29/2024 11:54 am : link
In comment 16449992 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16449936 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


LAC would still get one of MHJ or Nabers, Odunze if they want.

NYG could then trade with AZ to 4, securing either JJM or DM.

This would probably be the least expensive way to get your QB and hopefully keeping pick 47.

Give the pick 70 to LAC ( maybe pick up their 5th round ) and give AZ next years 2nd round pick.

You keep 47 this year and keep next years 1st.

Get your QB and have a shot at a very good WR at 47.



And if you are stuck at #5 and the QBs go anyway?


No way in hell I do this now.

I agree,that is a draft day call...
keep the lines of communication open...then if someone is still there at 5 you pull the trigger
RE: Schoen should (and probably  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/29/2024 11:58 am : link
In comment 16450024 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
will) have MULTIPLE scenarios set up with a number of teams.
If this happens he does this, etc. His biggest strength I think we've seen, is to be VERY prepared for all eventualities. It will be absolutely necessary in this draft.


This.

The calls have already been made.

What's going to happen is the Pats, Cardinals, Chargers are all going to make teams sweat it out and attempt to drive up the offer while the clock is ticking.
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