This may have been posted here before, but it doesn't sound like they have any intention of trading up unless he's just trying to throw teams off.
Joe Schoen said the Giants have more needs than just quarterback
"We don’t wanna be up here again — we don’t want to be picking in the top 10. We have multiple needs. We are going into Year 3. People assume we’re going quarterback, but we have other needs. If the quarterbacks go 1–4, then we’re getting the second-best position player, not quarterback, at six, which is O.K., too. That player will really help us."
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We were 1 win away from picking outside the top 10
Agreed. This is a huge draft for Schoen. If they come out with a lackluster haul and the plan is to run it back with DJ it’s going to be tough to get fans excited.
My dream draft would be landing MHJ, Odunze, or Nabers at 6 and then trading next years first and this years second to move back into the first to get Penix.
We also know that this team needs more than a franchise QB
Read the quote, he said we have multiple needs. Nothing he has said ever indicated one player away. Is there a quarterback or 2 that he likes? Most likely yes. Trying to trade up with 3 quarterback needy teams is almost impossible. Get the best player on the board at 6 if the quarterback(s) aren't there.
Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised if he's been watching the Minnesota games - regular season and playoff games of the 2022 season - to make sure he feels the same way about Jones when he decided to commit $160M for his franchise QB.
My guess is if Maye Daniels MHJ and Nabers all gone, they will at least listen.
Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised if he's been watching the Minnesota games - regular season and playoff games of the 2022 season - to make sure he feels the same way about Jones when he decided to commit $160M for his franchise QB.
You are like a broken record. Your 1st statement is totally independent of the second. And nothing between the two is in anyway related to the other. I would strongly suggest separating the QB position from any other position as it relates to the Giants. That will save you and the rest of us from incessant drivel. Can you kindly try to think outside of your box. There are almost a dozen other positions on the team. You are literally stuck dwelling on the QB position and carrying it over to every position on the team.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to have seen that Bobby Johnson effed up the entire offensive line. Not one player, not a single one, improved under him. In fact, it is easy to argue that every player under him, except Thomas, regressed. That Jones had one good game while sucking in the rest has nothing to do with the fact that Bobby Johnson may have ruined Evan Neal, Josh Ezeudu, JMS, Mark Glowinski and Ben Bredesen.
It may be misdirection, but if you take him on his word about not being committed to taking a QB and having needs, he sure as hell sounds like someone those QB needy teams should be checking in with, no?
Really? I don't think Poles has done a very good job at all. Obviously the Panthers deal last year has worked out in a massive way but they were hellbent on getting that pick and were willing to give up whatever it took. He traded a 2nd round pick (which turned out to be the 1st pick of the 2nd round) for Chase Claypool, gave Tremaine Edmunds a massive deal and he wasn't good last year, traded a 2nd for Sweat (who imo isn't in the same tier as Burns), only got a 6th rounder for Fields, etc. It's still too early to tell but none of his draft picks so far have turned into core building blocks yet although Darnell Wright did show some flashes and for some reason decided to keep Matt Eberflus.
Not that Schoen has been a world-beater either but I haven't been impressed by Poles
Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised if he's been watching the Minnesota games - regular season and playoff games of the 2022 season - to make sure he feels the same way about Jones when he decided to commit $160M for his franchise QB.
So in summary, from my perspective, he just said a whole lot of nothing from a fan perspective. The messaging - if there is any there - is directed at other teams.
Poles had the benefit of the #1 pick in last years draft, which was a strong QB class in a league full of QB needy times. Now, he did make the most of that by landing the #1 this year, Moore, and multiple other picks - but a majority of that is pure luck. Carolina gives a great offer, then proceeds to completely whiff and end up with the #1 draft slot.
Schoen had premiere draft capital in 2022, but early selections in that draft were less valuable as the top QBs were Pickett and Willis…
If you are comparing FA/trade acquisitions, I would give the advantage to Schoen. He got a better player (Burns) for a similar package to what Poles got Sweat for. Okereke outperformed Edmunds for just over half the cost. The Leonard Williams trade was a huge success. While the Waller trade isn’t great, the Claypool trade was MUCH worse. Schoen got more for Toney than apples got for Fields..
So IMO, given what each had to work with, Schoen has been better on a move by move basis - but loses the overall argument solely because of that one trade that had changed the entire trajectory of the Bears franchise. Good on Poles, but he hasn’t proven anything. Could be a blind squirrel who found a nut for all we know.
Yeah, he's had his misses-the Chase deal comes to mind-but I think Chicago is poised to be damn good real fast if Caleb hits.
Eric: Not to nitpik, but that isn't really what Breer said. What he did say in the piece was that the Giants 'had' looked into trading up which could mean lots of things.
That said, I have been trying to parse his actual quote and see what message he was trying to send if any. At first I thought it might be to Arizona that if the Cards didn't get an offer to move down to the 11-13 range, the Giants would be interested in flipping the 4-6 picks (where the Cards could still get a top WR and an extra pick) but that the Giants weren't going to give up much.
The other thought I had is could he be sending a signal to teams looking at guys like Alt or Turner or even one of the WRs a little lower in the draft that if the top 4 QBs were gone the Giants would be interested in trading down but likely not so much on the cheap.
Of course he could also just be saying that the Giants are in fact content to sit tight and take the QB if one is there at 6 but will settle for one of the top 2 non-QBs who is going to be a very very good prospect.
Thank the lord we've just got 16 days to go; any longer and some of us might go a little batty (if we haven't already!)
Right!!
Yeah, he's had his misses-the Chase deal comes to mind-but I think Chicago is poised to be damn good real fast if Caleb hits.
I don’t know, I see it as more lucky than good not to mention it was his roster that had the league’s worst record. Based on the reporting since then, Carolina was willing to give whatever it was going to take to get that pick. Also the jury is still out on whether it was a good deal with Stroud available. Caleb doesn’t just need to be good but at least nearly as good as Stroud too which is no small task given that he just had arguably the greatest rookie QB season ever. He also traded away Roquan Smith, one of the best inside linebackers in the NFL for a 2 and then the next or same day used their own 2 for Claypool. Essentially instead of just paying Smith and forgetting about Claypool, they created a big hole and filled it by spending big on a far lesser player.
I just think there are far better GM’s out there to be yearning for Poles.
Where did he say that?
Are you really this simple?
If you can’t get YOUR QB or the blue chip stud WR, you trade back, pick up some draft capital for 2025. Continue the re-build.
11, 23 and a 2025 1st round pick might really help this team get out of mediocrity.
If you want to read into it though he kinda says there is only 4 QBs he would draft at 6.
If you can’t get YOUR QB or the blue chip stud WR, you trade back, pick up some draft capital for 2025. Continue the re-build.
11, 23 and a 2025 1st round pick might really help this team get out of mediocrity.
The Vikings aren't trading what they would trade for Maye to us for JJM if that's what your thinking.
The same guy that traded away the 32nd pick in the draft for Chase Claypool? Schoen hasn't been good but neither has Poles. What I am more curious about is the guy that Washington got from SF who was a finalist for us. I was very intrigued by him and Ryans. We never even interviewed Ryans.
He has one swing left on a QB. Let’s see if he gets a hit or takes the pitch.
Yep. This is more telling to me than Schoen's public comments.
This has to be bullshit, right?
If you want to read into it though he kinda says there is only 4 QBs he would draft at 6.
I dont think he's saying that at all, and I don't think there is 4 QBs he would draft at 6. Maybe 1 or 2 imo.
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"It was almost embarrassing the way we played on the offensive line," Schoen said about the 2023 Giants team that finished with a 6-11 record. "You can’t run a play. You really can’t get a true feel for Daniel when he’s on his back every play. There’s definitely a concerted effort to upgrade both fronts."
This has to be bullshit, right?
Why would that be bullshit? It's true.
A goal nobody ever stated until you spammed the board with it?
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"It was almost embarrassing the way we played on the offensive line," Schoen said about the 2023 Giants team that finished with a 6-11 record. "You can’t run a play. You really can’t get a true feel for Daniel when he’s on his back every play. There’s definitely a concerted effort to upgrade both fronts."
This has to be bullshit, right?
Why would that be bullshit? It's true.
We don't have a true feel for Daniel? After five years and 59 starts?
In my quest to be positive about the Giants I'm going to give Schoen the benefit of the doubt and say this was garden variety BS.
then says if they go 1-4, it's still OK.
I read that as, we want one of the four...
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from not picking top 10 next year then he's dumber than I thought.
We were 1 win away from picking outside the top 10
Works the other way too. This was a bad team all year and while this defense might be improved, this offensive is going to be dreadful ifs Jones and Lock are your quarterbacks.
This might change but they have the 6th worst odds to win the SB and an over under of 6.5 wins.
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In comment 16462576 LW_Giants said:
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from not picking top 10 next year then he's dumber than I thought.
We were 1 win away from picking outside the top 10
Works the other way too. This was a bad team all year and while this defense might be improved, this offensive is going to be dreadful ifs Jones and Lock are your quarterbacks.
This might change but they have the 6th worst odds to win the SB and an over under of 6.5 wins.
It doesn't work the other way, if we lost one more game we would be picking 5th. We needed 2 more losses to be picking 3rd.
I think Vegas has it about right, as they did last year. I could see a draft without a QB leading to the over on that over/under. Nabers and Benson rd 1 and 2, Sanders TE rd 3, probably over 6.5. Maybe that's what Daboll wants.
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In comment 16462581 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16462576 LW_Giants said:
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from not picking top 10 next year then he's dumber than I thought.
We were 1 win away from picking outside the top 10
Works the other way too. This was a bad team all year and while this defense might be improved, this offensive is going to be dreadful ifs Jones and Lock are your quarterbacks.
This might change but they have the 6th worst odds to win the SB and an over under of 6.5 wins.
It doesn't work the other way, if we lost one more game we would be picking 5th. We needed 2 more losses to be picking 3rd.
I think Vegas has it about right, as they did last year. I could see a draft without a QB leading to the over on that over/under. Nabers and Benson rd 1 and 2, Sanders TE rd 3, probably over 6.5. Maybe that's what Daboll wants.
How does it not work the other way? They could have easily lost another 2 games- GB/ Wash/ NE/ Philly. My point is there were a bottom 5 NFL team all season.
I wonder how the O/U would change based on a 1st rd QB vs WR. I would love to know the real data/ numbers on how Vegas views Jones as a QB1.
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In comment 16463442 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 16462581 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16462576 LW_Giants said:
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from not picking top 10 next year then he's dumber than I thought.
We were 1 win away from picking outside the top 10
Works the other way too. This was a bad team all year and while this defense might be improved, this offensive is going to be dreadful ifs Jones and Lock are your quarterbacks.
This might change but they have the 6th worst odds to win the SB and an over under of 6.5 wins.
It doesn't work the other way, if we lost one more game we would be picking 5th. We needed 2 more losses to be picking 3rd.
I think Vegas has it about right, as they did last year. I could see a draft without a QB leading to the over on that over/under. Nabers and Benson rd 1 and 2, Sanders TE rd 3, probably over 6.5. Maybe that's what Daboll wants.
How does it not work the other way? They could have easily lost another 2 games- GB/ Wash/ NE/ Philly. My point is there were a bottom 5 NFL team all season.
I wonder how the O/U would change based on a 1st rd QB vs WR. I would love to know the real data/ numbers on how Vegas views Jones as a QB1.
I said it doesn't work the other way because the original comment was if we won 1 more game we were out of the top 10. So, the other way is losing 1 more game which would have only given us pick 5 vs 6. If you remember, LAC blew a lead in the final minute or we would be picking 5 even with the big win vs Philly.
I definitely think if we don't go QB rd 1 we at least get 1 extra win this year.
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In comment 16463442 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 16462581 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16462576 LW_Giants said:
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from not picking top 10 next year then he's dumber than I thought.
We were 1 win away from picking outside the top 10
Works the other way too. This was a bad team all year and while this defense might be improved, this offensive is going to be dreadful ifs Jones and Lock are your quarterbacks.
This might change but they have the 6th worst odds to win the SB and an over under of 6.5 wins.
It doesn't work the other way, if we lost one more game we would be picking 5th. We needed 2 more losses to be picking 3rd.
I think Vegas has it about right, as they did last year. I could see a draft without a QB leading to the over on that over/under. Nabers and Benson rd 1 and 2, Sanders TE rd 3, probably over 6.5. Maybe that's what Daboll wants.
How does it not work the other way? They could have easily lost another 2 games- GB/ Wash/ NE/ Philly. My point is there were a bottom 5 NFL team all season.
I wonder how the O/U would change based on a 1st rd QB vs WR. I would love to know the real data/ numbers on how Vegas views Jones as a QB1.
And actually if we lost 2 more games but still beat the Patriots, say we lost to GB and one DC game, we would still be picking 4th on the outside looking in.