There is no better example of not being anticipatory, of hiding under the tent of loyalty, than the New York Giants. For six years, they have tried in vain to justify the over-drafting of quarterback Daniel Jones as the sixth pick in the 2019 draft. Jones isn’t a bust. He hasn’t fulfilled the promise of his draft status with his 59 starts, 22 wins and never throwing over 6.9 yards per attempt in any season.
And there lies the problem. His draft status draws excitement, creating a proposed solution to a never-ending problem. When general manager Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll arrived from Buffalo, the Jones solution was in doubt. The Giants didn’t pick up his fifth-year option, forcing him to play for pay in his final year.
Jones had a typical year, nothing extraordinary or even teasing enough to believe he moved from being a proposed solution to a remedy. His numbers were typical of his first four years, only the Giants played better as a team, managed the games with more awareness and benefited from an easy schedule.
The 2022 playoff success of the Giants created another mirage to justify the selection. One morsel of good caused the Giants to behave like a man stranded in the desert who sees a Coke machine everywhere he looks.
Now, they are in full-speed pursuit to fix the problem many told them to fix the minute they arrived. They have been all over the country trying their damnest to fall in love, a requirement uttered by Giants President John Mara for the potential of picking a quarterback and ending his dream of Jones becoming his next Eli. “If they fall in love with a quarterback and believe that it’s worth pick No. 6 or moving up, I certainly would support that,” Mara said.
Because Schoen and Daboll didn’t anticipate the quarterback problem, they’re short of that precious time. With former Giant coach Bill Belichick available or Mike Vrabel waiting for his next call to action, time isn’t on the side of either man. They need a solution in a “god damn hurry,” as the great Sheriff Buford T. Justice uttered to the nice lady waitress in Smokey and the Bandit.
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Will this solve the problem? It certainly has the potential.
You can't have it both ways. If your criteria for evaluating a QB is won-loss record then you can't dismiss it when they win.
I've often said you can't pin a won-loss record on one player out of 53.
That said, I'm ready for a different guy behind center and not Lock.
Lombardi has had the Giants nailed for years, going back to them clinging to Eli. It makes the pollyannas angry.
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I know BBI tends to react strongly to Lombardi, but ...
Lombardi has had the Giants nailed for years, going back to them clinging to Eli. It makes the pollyannas angry.
Yep, I hate him but he's been right more than he's been wrong about how the Giants operate.
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I know BBI tends to react strongly to Lombardi, but ...
Lombardi has had the Giants nailed for years, going back to them clinging to Eli. It makes the pollyannas angry.
Was Lombardi huddled under that rock with you in 2022? It's just funny that, as pointed out earlier in this thread, many of you will cite QBR, except pay no mind to Jones's in 2022. Will call the Minnesota playoff game garbage because of the competition, yet not realize that Taylor and DeVito looked better this year only because Jones faced a much tougher schedule.
Again, I can't state enough how badly I want to move on from Daniel Jones, it's just on principle, so many of you are hypocritical and act like you're the smarter people in the room.
That’s a big part part of the problem and leads to overlooking the flaws and blemishes and not giving a cold blooded assessment and why we are giving too long to Jones and over analyzing these prospects as they did in 2018.
Pick a guy who is worthy as you do every other position and give them a rationale amount of time to win (2 seasons) if it’s not working move on.
He can say something close to being right and still be wrong overall.
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In comment 16463571 JonC said:
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I know BBI tends to react strongly to Lombardi, but ...
Lombardi has had the Giants nailed for years, going back to them clinging to Eli. It makes the pollyannas angry.
Was Lombardi huddled under that rock with you in 2022? It's just funny that, as pointed out earlier in this thread, many of you will cite QBR, except pay no mind to Jones's in 2022. Will call the Minnesota playoff game garbage because of the competition, yet not realize that Taylor and DeVito looked better this year only because Jones faced a much tougher schedule.
Again, I can't state enough how badly I want to move on from Daniel Jones, it's just on principle, so many of you are hypocritical and act like you're the smarter people in the room.
This is stupid on so many levels. People bring up the Minnesota game being against an incompetent defense because of its relation to directly leading to that asinine contract Jones received because of it. They didn’t sign Taylor or DeVito to a ludicrous contract based on the games they played against weak opponents. Also, if Jones were a true franchise QB, we should NEVER have to debate why the back up and 3rd string rookie UDFA outplayed him. I don’t give a shit what kind of schedule each went against.
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I know BBI tends to react strongly to Lombardi, but ...
Lombardi has had the Giants nailed for years, going back to them clinging to Eli. It makes the pollyannas angry.
People who insist on an optimistic appraisal of the situation despite all evidence to the contrary.
If you go back in the archives for the past decade you'll find many examples.
Relax, I just posted the story. It's Lombardi's words not mine :)
I think he knows more about the Giants inner workings than people give him credit for. I've always thought that he gets his Giants information from Chris Mara, because one time a few years ago on his podcast he praised Chris Mara as being a great football guy, which nobody else had or has. I think with new regime he probably knows a little less because I really do think that the circle of ultimate decision making on drafting is limited to Schoen, Daboll and John Mara.
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In comment 16463577 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16463571 JonC said:
Quote:
I know BBI tends to react strongly to Lombardi, but ...
Lombardi has had the Giants nailed for years, going back to them clinging to Eli. It makes the pollyannas angry.
Was Lombardi huddled under that rock with you in 2022? It's just funny that, as pointed out earlier in this thread, many of you will cite QBR, except pay no mind to Jones's in 2022. Will call the Minnesota playoff game garbage because of the competition, yet not realize that Taylor and DeVito looked better this year only because Jones faced a much tougher schedule.
Again, I can't state enough how badly I want to move on from Daniel Jones, it's just on principle, so many of you are hypocritical and act like you're the smarter people in the room.
This is stupid on so many levels. People bring up the Minnesota game being against an incompetent defense because of its relation to directly leading to that asinine contract Jones received because of it. They didn’t sign Taylor or DeVito to a ludicrous contract based on the games they played against weak opponents. Also, if Jones were a true franchise QB, we should NEVER have to debate why the back up and 3rd string rookie UDFA outplayed him. I don’t give a shit what kind of schedule each went against.
To hell with the schedule how about team injuries. When Jones was in there AT was out schmitz was out waller was out
and Saquan Barkley was out and Wandale Robinson wasn't ready and was still working his way back from his injury. Jones needs to be replaced because of his chronic neck problem
March 2022 (FA #1)
Russ trade?
Watson trade?
top 2 FA QBs by guaranteed $ were Winston (15m) and Tyrod Taylor (8m...with NYG)
April 2022 (draft #1)
Pickett (traded)
Ridder (traded)
Willis (yet to throw an NFL td)
Corral (cut twice, currently a birmingham stallion)
Howell (traded)
Zappe
Purdy (bet none of the other GMs regret the 261 picks before him)
(May 2022 declines 5yo on Jones)
March 2023 (FA #2)
Derek Carr signs, similar gtd cash as jones through next year ($70m)
Jimmy G (45m gtd, cut)
Rodgers trade
April 2023 (Draft #2)
Bryce (bust!)
Stroud (hof'er!)
Richardson
Levis
(i think tommy cutlets won more games than everyone above except stroud i think)
March 2024
top 3 gtd FA Qbs were Cousins ($100m) + Minshew ($15m) + Darnold (10m)
unless you're argument is they should build a time machine to go back and draft purdy (who im sure would be thriving here with deebo, cmc, aiyuk, kittle) or invent some means of making a huge trade up for stroud you are basically barking at the moon for something that didnt exist.
The situation is now changed with Jones. He is expensive, injured and they are in a good spot to make a move if they like a QB. Hopefully they pick right QB and do a better job supporting and coaching him.
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If Washington takes him at 2, they'll stay at 6 or trade down a few spots.
im not those were tongue in cheek exclamation points for both him and stroud. i actually dont know how he could have been better given how bad carolina was. he got 100/1k yards out of the ghost of adam thielen.
If Washington takes him at 2, they'll stay at 6 or trade down a few spots.
Would it shock everyone if the Giants were just as interested Daniels?
who was the marquee skill player on houston's offense going into last year? green bay? rams for the half the year Kupp was hurt? ravens after andrews got hurt?
what picks were tank dell, zay flowers, jayden reed, puka, nico collins, kyren williams, watson, etc.?
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Giants are going to do everything in their power without doing something absurd to trade up to 3 if Maye is there.
If Washington takes him at 2, they'll stay at 6 or trade down a few spots.
Would it shock everyone if the Giants were just as interested Daniels?
I don't think anyone in the top 3 would be dumb enough to trade away a chance at JD, Maye I could see as he is a classic boom or bust prospect. I don't see NE trading down if JD is there sadly as he the guy I would trade a lot for.
Giants won a playoff game in 2022 with Darius Slayton and Isaiah Hodgins as their best receivers.
March 2022 (FA #1)
Russ trade?
Watson trade?
top 2 FA QBs by guaranteed $ were Winston (15m) and Tyrod Taylor (8m...with NYG)
April 2022 (draft #1)
Pickett (traded)
Ridder (traded)
Willis (yet to throw an NFL td)
Corral (cut twice, currently a birmingham stallion)
Howell (traded)
Zappe
Purdy (bet none of the other GMs regret the 261 picks before him)
(May 2022 declines 5yo on Jones)
March 2023 (FA #2)
Derek Carr signs, similar gtd cash as jones through next year ($70m)
Jimmy G (45m gtd, cut)
Rodgers trade
April 2023 (Draft #2)
Bryce (bust!)
Stroud (hof'er!)
Richardson
Levis
(i think tommy cutlets won more games than everyone above except stroud i think)
March 2024
top 3 gtd FA Qbs were Cousins ($100m) + Minshew ($15m) + Darnold (10m)
unless you're argument is they should build a time machine to go back and draft purdy (who im sure would be thriving here with deebo, cmc, aiyuk, kittle) or invent some means of making a huge trade up for stroud you are basically barking at the moon for something that didnt exist.
Very good post. This is why this draft is huge. It changes a lot, but I think now Schoen & Daboll want Maye badly.
Quote:
forgive if im missing someone obvious but pretty sure this is mostly the list:
March 2022 (FA #1)
Russ trade?
Watson trade?
top 2 FA QBs by guaranteed $ were Winston (15m) and Tyrod Taylor (8m...with NYG)
April 2022 (draft #1)
Pickett (traded)
Ridder (traded)
Willis (yet to throw an NFL td)
Corral (cut twice, currently a birmingham stallion)
Howell (traded)
Zappe
Purdy (bet none of the other GMs regret the 261 picks before him)
(May 2022 declines 5yo on Jones)
March 2023 (FA #2)
Derek Carr signs, similar gtd cash as jones through next year ($70m)
Jimmy G (45m gtd, cut)
Rodgers trade
April 2023 (Draft #2)
Bryce (bust!)
Stroud (hof'er!)
Richardson
Levis
(i think tommy cutlets won more games than everyone above except stroud i think)
March 2024
top 3 gtd FA Qbs were Cousins ($100m) + Minshew ($15m) + Darnold (10m)
unless you're argument is they should build a time machine to go back and draft purdy (who im sure would be thriving here with deebo, cmc, aiyuk, kittle) or invent some means of making a huge trade up for stroud you are basically barking at the moon for something that didnt exist.
Very good post. This is why this draft is huge. It changes a lot, but I think now Schoen & Daboll want Maye badly.
Maybe Schoen wants him more badly than Daboll if you believe GoDeep13 saying Daboll absolutely loves Nabers.
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In comment 16463725 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
forgive if im missing someone obvious but pretty sure this is mostly the list:
March 2022 (FA #1)
Russ trade?
Watson trade?
top 2 FA QBs by guaranteed $ were Winston (15m) and Tyrod Taylor (8m...with NYG)
April 2022 (draft #1)
Pickett (traded)
Ridder (traded)
Willis (yet to throw an NFL td)
Corral (cut twice, currently a birmingham stallion)
Howell (traded)
Zappe
Purdy (bet none of the other GMs regret the 261 picks before him)
(May 2022 declines 5yo on Jones)
March 2023 (FA #2)
Derek Carr signs, similar gtd cash as jones through next year ($70m)
Jimmy G (45m gtd, cut)
Rodgers trade
April 2023 (Draft #2)
Bryce (bust!)
Stroud (hof'er!)
Richardson
Levis
(i think tommy cutlets won more games than everyone above except stroud i think)
March 2024
top 3 gtd FA Qbs were Cousins ($100m) + Minshew ($15m) + Darnold (10m)
unless you're argument is they should build a time machine to go back and draft purdy (who im sure would be thriving here with deebo, cmc, aiyuk, kittle) or invent some means of making a huge trade up for stroud you are basically barking at the moon for something that didnt exist.
Very good post. This is why this draft is huge. It changes a lot, but I think now Schoen & Daboll want Maye badly.
Maybe Schoen wants him more badly than Daboll if you believe GoDeep13 saying Daboll absolutely loves Nabers.
Just because Daboll loves Nabers doesn’t mean he is not on board with drafting a QB
Why give up on DJ so soon? Certainly there is a B grade deal worth entering into that you think the Giants should consider?
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I know BBI tends to react strongly to Lombardi, but ...
He can say something close to being right and still be wrong overall.
I don't think he's wrong overall, and he's made many of the same observations that I have. The decision making remains not good enough.
He is definitely down on the Giants on most occasions. I don't think he has any real understanding of what Schoen is trying to build. It's also not helped by VsIn treating him like he's the oracle on everything football. They fawn over him so much.
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In comment 16463831 Sean said:
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In comment 16463725 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
forgive if im missing someone obvious but pretty sure this is mostly the list:
March 2022 (FA #1)
Russ trade?
Watson trade?
top 2 FA QBs by guaranteed $ were Winston (15m) and Tyrod Taylor (8m...with NYG)
April 2022 (draft #1)
Pickett (traded)
Ridder (traded)
Willis (yet to throw an NFL td)
Corral (cut twice, currently a birmingham stallion)
Howell (traded)
Zappe
Purdy (bet none of the other GMs regret the 261 picks before him)
(May 2022 declines 5yo on Jones)
March 2023 (FA #2)
Derek Carr signs, similar gtd cash as jones through next year ($70m)
Jimmy G (45m gtd, cut)
Rodgers trade
April 2023 (Draft #2)
Bryce (bust!)
Stroud (hof'er!)
Richardson
Levis
(i think tommy cutlets won more games than everyone above except stroud i think)
March 2024
top 3 gtd FA Qbs were Cousins ($100m) + Minshew ($15m) + Darnold (10m)
unless you're argument is they should build a time machine to go back and draft purdy (who im sure would be thriving here with deebo, cmc, aiyuk, kittle) or invent some means of making a huge trade up for stroud you are basically barking at the moon for something that didnt exist.
Very good post. This is why this draft is huge. It changes a lot, but I think now Schoen & Daboll want Maye badly.
Maybe Schoen wants him more badly than Daboll if you believe GoDeep13 saying Daboll absolutely loves Nabers.
Just because Daboll loves Nabers doesn’t mean he is not on board with drafting a QB
Im not saying that, maybe he prefers Nabers though. Or he could be being smart and talking about Nabers publicly knowing we have another agenda for QBs that he keeps under wraps.
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In comment 16463867 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16463831 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16463725 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
forgive if im missing someone obvious but pretty sure this is mostly the list:
March 2022 (FA #1)
Russ trade?
Watson trade?
top 2 FA QBs by guaranteed $ were Winston (15m) and Tyrod Taylor (8m...with NYG)
April 2022 (draft #1)
Pickett (traded)
Ridder (traded)
Willis (yet to throw an NFL td)
Corral (cut twice, currently a birmingham stallion)
Howell (traded)
Zappe
Purdy (bet none of the other GMs regret the 261 picks before him)
(May 2022 declines 5yo on Jones)
March 2023 (FA #2)
Derek Carr signs, similar gtd cash as jones through next year ($70m)
Jimmy G (45m gtd, cut)
Rodgers trade
April 2023 (Draft #2)
Bryce (bust!)
Stroud (hof'er!)
Richardson
Levis
(i think tommy cutlets won more games than everyone above except stroud i think)
March 2024
top 3 gtd FA Qbs were Cousins ($100m) + Minshew ($15m) + Darnold (10m)
unless you're argument is they should build a time machine to go back and draft purdy (who im sure would be thriving here with deebo, cmc, aiyuk, kittle) or invent some means of making a huge trade up for stroud you are basically barking at the moon for something that didnt exist.
Very good post. This is why this draft is huge. It changes a lot, but I think now Schoen & Daboll want Maye badly.
Maybe Schoen wants him more badly than Daboll if you believe GoDeep13 saying Daboll absolutely loves Nabers.
Just because Daboll loves Nabers doesn’t mean he is not on board with drafting a QB
Im not saying that, maybe he prefers Nabers though. Or he could be being smart and talking about Nabers publicly knowing we have another agenda for QBs that he keeps under wraps.
Where has he specifically talked about Nabers other any other prospect for that matter?
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In comment 16463869 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16463867 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16463831 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16463725 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
forgive if im missing someone obvious but pretty sure this is mostly the list:
March 2022 (FA #1)
Russ trade?
Watson trade?
top 2 FA QBs by guaranteed $ were Winston (15m) and Tyrod Taylor (8m...with NYG)
April 2022 (draft #1)
Pickett (traded)
Ridder (traded)
Willis (yet to throw an NFL td)
Corral (cut twice, currently a birmingham stallion)
Howell (traded)
Zappe
Purdy (bet none of the other GMs regret the 261 picks before him)
(May 2022 declines 5yo on Jones)
March 2023 (FA #2)
Derek Carr signs, similar gtd cash as jones through next year ($70m)
Jimmy G (45m gtd, cut)
Rodgers trade
April 2023 (Draft #2)
Bryce (bust!)
Stroud (hof'er!)
Richardson
Levis
(i think tommy cutlets won more games than everyone above except stroud i think)
March 2024
top 3 gtd FA Qbs were Cousins ($100m) + Minshew ($15m) + Darnold (10m)
unless you're argument is they should build a time machine to go back and draft purdy (who im sure would be thriving here with deebo, cmc, aiyuk, kittle) or invent some means of making a huge trade up for stroud you are basically barking at the moon for something that didnt exist.
Very good post. This is why this draft is huge. It changes a lot, but I think now Schoen & Daboll want Maye badly.
Maybe Schoen wants him more badly than Daboll if you believe GoDeep13 saying Daboll absolutely loves Nabers.
Just because Daboll loves Nabers doesn’t mean he is not on board with drafting a QB
Im not saying that, maybe he prefers Nabers though. Or he could be being smart and talking about Nabers publicly knowing we have another agenda for QBs that he keeps under wraps.
Where has he specifically talked about Nabers other any other prospect for that matter?
GoDeep13 : 4/7/2024 10:24 am : link : reply
In comment 16459104 Chris684 said:
Quote:
But I have a feeling NYG has it as Maye and McCarthy for QBs and Harrison Odunze for the WRs.
They really like Nabers. Daboll in particular REALLY likes Nabers. Remember. Daboll liked Diggs as well. Also, Daboll isn’t a choir boy guy (Hyatt is a bit cocky in his own right.) Daboll appreciates fire and a bit of swagger.
Questioning the validity of the Giants "falling in love" with a prospect when that kind of thinking has led to poor decisions in the past. He allows the it may be a solution, however he's ridiculously dismissive of coaching ability/developing talent, taking a very reductive perspective and likening it to a "magic potion". Truth is, Daboll and Co have gotten more than expected from each QB who has taken snaps for them, and that bears mentioning in an article like this.
That's why Lombardi aggravates me. He's plugged in and a fine writer, but the bias is legit.
Quote:
In comment 16463967 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16463869 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16463867 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16463831 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16463725 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
forgive if im missing someone obvious but pretty sure this is mostly the list:
March 2022 (FA #1)
Russ trade?
Watson trade?
top 2 FA QBs by guaranteed $ were Winston (15m) and Tyrod Taylor (8m...with NYG)
April 2022 (draft #1)
Pickett (traded)
Ridder (traded)
Willis (yet to throw an NFL td)
Corral (cut twice, currently a birmingham stallion)
Howell (traded)
Zappe
Purdy (bet none of the other GMs regret the 261 picks before him)
(May 2022 declines 5yo on Jones)
March 2023 (FA #2)
Derek Carr signs, similar gtd cash as jones through next year ($70m)
Jimmy G (45m gtd, cut)
Rodgers trade
April 2023 (Draft #2)
Bryce (bust!)
Stroud (hof'er!)
Richardson
Levis
(i think tommy cutlets won more games than everyone above except stroud i think)
March 2024
top 3 gtd FA Qbs were Cousins ($100m) + Minshew ($15m) + Darnold (10m)
unless you're argument is they should build a time machine to go back and draft purdy (who im sure would be thriving here with deebo, cmc, aiyuk, kittle) or invent some means of making a huge trade up for stroud you are basically barking at the moon for something that didnt exist.
Very good post. This is why this draft is huge. It changes a lot, but I think now Schoen & Daboll want Maye badly.
Maybe Schoen wants him more badly than Daboll if you believe GoDeep13 saying Daboll absolutely loves Nabers.
Just because Daboll loves Nabers doesn’t mean he is not on board with drafting a QB
Im not saying that, maybe he prefers Nabers though. Or he could be being smart and talking about Nabers publicly knowing we have another agenda for QBs that he keeps under wraps.
Where has he specifically talked about Nabers other any other prospect for that matter?
Quote:
: I know nothing
GoDeep13 : 4/7/2024 10:24 am : link : reply
In comment 16459104 Chris684 said:
Quote:
But I have a feeling NYG has it as Maye and McCarthy for QBs and Harrison Odunze for the WRs.
They really like Nabers. Daboll in particular REALLY likes Nabers. Remember. Daboll liked Diggs as well. Also, Daboll isn’t a choir boy guy (Hyatt is a bit cocky in his own right.) Daboll appreciates fire and a bit of swagger.
I certainly wouldn’t classify that as Daboll speaking about a prospect as much as I respect Go Deep’s contributions
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i think he is the guy they probably most want. i dont think JJM is that far behind though. I feel reasonably confident that those are their top 2 targets, just dont know how far they would stretch to move up for them. giving up a future first for QB4 would be a lot from where they are but they may have to. if arizona wants more than that from MIN, next year's 1st may not even be enough.
Why give up on DJ so soon? Certainly there is a B grade deal worth entering into that you think the Giants should consider?
i guess you need one of your old handles to remind you one of the very well reported benefits of the contract was the out after the 2nd year and lack of franchise qbs likely to hit the market before that.
if i dont happen to see your replies here when i switchback to desktop just keep going. id imagine whoever filed the most recent restraining order against you appreciates the respite as much as i do when not on my phone.
Keep giving us these great NYG evaluations. It’s good comedy.
Some so called draft insiders will be exposed.
Victim of lying season. I’m gonna see who fell for Schoen’s master class.
Also It will be really funny if Minn can’t trade up and stay at 11 bc 90% of mock draft is already Minn picking in top 5.