Do You Think Daboll is Championship-Level Coach?

Not sure why the Wink issue developed....it seems it worked out.

Was not impressed how unprepared the team was to play.

Season was over by the time the team turned the corner.

He should be embarrassed by the OL he put out....we can blame the OL coach....buts it's on hime....under his watch.

I do think it says something that they were able to win some games down the stretch last year with Tommy Devito at QB, no WRs, an awful OL, and a defensive coordinator actively trying to sabotage him.

Hard to say this team underachieved roster wise over his first 2 years. We really need to get to the point where the Giants don't have one of the worst rosters in the NFL.

In comment 16466086 George from PA said:

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He should be embarrassed by the OL he put out....we can blame the OL coach....buts it's on hime....under his watch.

If Daboll has a strong offensive mind, and excels at player development, who do you think is more likely to be at fault for the line they put out -- the GM or head coach?

Your two reasons are valid. He knows how to squeeze the most out of his team and he handles the staff well in my opinion.

I really think we are lucky to have him. Whhat bothers me are the people that complain about the “meaningless wins”. If he went 2-15 or 3-14, he may have been out of a job. Coach is very important. We just need to get him the ball players, particularly the right quarterback.

i agree the fact that he won games against playoff 2 teams with 2 different qbs is a very good sign. people may not want to realize it now but the tommy cutlets era could have been every bit as embarassing as the fromm era and it was the exact opposite. also remember he almost won the last game of the year vs philly with davis webb, which would have been 3 backup qbs winning games vs playoff teams.

the fact that he kept the lockerroom together in a terrible year is a good sign.

we saw 3 other coaches since coughlin fail similar tests which is why they only lasted 2 years.

a lot is riding on him having corrected his 2 biggest mistakes and gotten this OL coach and DC right though.

Certainly not at the moment. Coaches have to become and sustain into championship level.

High bar, but I’m more impressed with Dabs than I am Joe thus far.

...

I personally feel, like he was a good hire, not only for how he commands respect, but how he works with the GM, they have different opinions, but they work to find a common ground.
He actually DOES value player improvement, understands that players are not ready made, and developing them, putting them in positions to be successful is paramount in order to win.
He doesn't "accept" losing, and that creates the right environment around his players.

Last year's OL atrocity is more on Schoen. He ALSO learned from that, as indicated by the change of plan for this year.
Mara wants stability.
If he can hold his water, these two will eventually be successful.

In comment 16466100 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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High bar, but I’m more impressed with Dabs than I am Joe thus far.

I 100% agree. Given we don't know how much influence Daboll has on roster decisions, what we do know is they are making some bad decisions.

I mean... who knows? I think the guy can coach. I think he is better than Judge and Shurmur (low bar, I know). I don't think it was any small feat to take that 2022 team to the playoffs, let alone win a playoff game.

That said, the lack of preparation for last season and the head scratching roster management definitely soured me on him last year. I can only hope he learned some hard lessons from last year that make him better.

Also, the temperament... it seems like Wink was more in the wrong but who knows? The whispers of tension between he and Kafka, coupled with the Colt McCoy nonsense from the past...

It does all make me wonder. I hope he has done some self scouting and correction on that stuff because I do think he is a good coach. He needs to be better.

In comment 16466110 christian said:

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In comment 16466100 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: High bar, but I’m more impressed with Dabs than I am Joe thus far. I 100% agree. Given we don't know how much influence Daboll has on roster decisions, what we do know is they are making some bad decisions.

a high % of the bad personnel decisions have been OL (glowinski, neal, ezeudu in theory should be + starters right now and if they were we'd have probably saved most of the $17m spent on runyan and eluemenor).

if wink was the elite DC he was paid to be, the defense wouldnt have regressed and he'd still be in the nfl.

those 2 hires are probably going to determine if he sinks or swims more than whoever plays QB this year because as we have seen, he has proven he can get competitive play out of a QB more than he has OL or DEF.

but I am optimistic. Biggest positives - 2022, keeping team focused in 2023.

Biggest negatives - never seen a team less ready to play than opening game 2023. The DJ signing is mostly on him. He had to make the decision as to whether DJ could take the next step and it appears he was wrong.

but wouldn't rule it out. He made the most out of 2022 and 2023, given the QBs.

The Wink situation is noise. Wink is out of the NFL and was probably a head case, seeing the Ravens let him walk too.

In comment 16466109 Dave on the UWS said:

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Last year's OL atrocity is more on Schoen.

I disagree with that. Davoli brought in Bobby Johnson. He also under-prepared a new group of OL in the pre-season. And terrible roster management with the worst of it letting Tyre Phillips go in favor of Peart as the swing, and then starting Ezeudu at RT in place of Andrew Thomas. It doomed the season.

I like him. He's gotten more wins out of a pretty bad team than I would have thought possible. A huge part of being the HC, though, is building an excellent staff supporting him, and so far he's had a bunch of misfires there. I hope the changes made this offseason provide better returns than the likes of Wink and Bobby Johnson did. It's also undeniable that his handling of preseason was strange and likely was the root cause of the team looking completely unprepared to start the season.

How can anyone possibly assess whether or not this guy is a "championship-level coach" after a couple of years with the worst roster in the NFL?

some questionable roster moves. and he seemed to regress with in-game decisions and game management. i hope he fixes all of these things this year.

and maybe he should eat a salad once in a while. i don't like a HC that looks like he might die on the sideline. if he can't manage his own well being why should i trust him to manage a complex enterprise?

In comment 16466116 Eric on Li said:

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those 2 hires are probably going to determine if he sinks or swims more than whoever plays QB this year because as we have seen, he has proven he can get competitive play out of a QB more than he has OL or DEF.

I don't agree. Although I believe the defense and offensive line will play big parts, the quarterback play will ultimately determine whether the Giants have a sub-17 PPG offensive.

You simply cannot put a team on the field so unprepared to play football. Soft, no response to being punched in the mouth, historically terrible OL, there's no excuse.

Make no mistake, the 2023 NYG put some historically ugly play out there for all the world to see. Perennial loser franchise level ugly, and it must be stripped away. It all starts and ends with Davoli. First, let's see 2024 resemble 2022.

Got some early success, then hit the problem times. Who knows if he is championship level or not. How he moves forward from here will tell us. The guys who are (in any job) will learn from their mistakes, adjust, and continue to improve. The others are called Joe Judge

But, I know with Belichick looming he needs a big year. I think BBI tends to overrate Vrabel a bit, his last two seasons were poor (Daboll has a better record).

What we do know, there is a big coaching storage in the NFL. Daboll salvaged last year a bit going 4-5 after the 2-8 start with Taylor & DeVito. But, the start of the year was very bad. Losing 40-0 on national TV against Dallas at home. Brutal. Took all the air out of the season.

All said, I think Daboll is a good coach.

are giving Daboll way too much credit for "expectations" on Tyrod and Devito and ignoring the OL and other elements of run/pass game that were completely figured out by defenses last year.

It wasn't just the OL - the whole offense stunk sans maybe 3-4 games of "average". Thats on Daboll, not Schoen.

.

of his head coaching career?

1) They need to do much better at stopping the run.
2) On passing downs, there needs to be a pocket that the qb can step into.

He'll be 73 by the '25 season opener, and would need to surrender a great deal of control in order to coach NYG.

I think that ship sailed about ten years ago.

Of the year confirmed it for me. This roster is hot garbage and he kept us from being an embarrassment. Remember Joe Judge anyone? Take a knee on your own 9 yard line.

In comment 16466137 christian said:

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In comment 16466116 Eric on Li said: Quote: those 2 hires are probably going to determine if he sinks or swims more than whoever plays QB this year because as we have seen, he has proven he can get competitive play out of a QB more than he has OL or DEF. I don't agree. Although I believe the defense and offensive line will play big parts, the quarterback play will ultimately determine whether the Giants have a sub-17 PPG offensive.

if my math is right with tommy devito and tyrod taylor they scored 20 ppg from jones' acl injury week 9 on. with daniel jones healthy in 2022 they scored 21 ppg.

he has proven he can get the team to a reasonable ppg total with an assortment of qbs more than he has proven he can find a competent OL coach or competent OL players (hasnt) or field a better than below average defense (hasn't).

in sean mcdermott year 3/josh allen year 2 buffalo won 10 games scoring 19 ppg. allen completed 59% with 20 tds, 9 ints. the ghost of frank gore and devin singletary each started 8 games at rb. pre-diggs, john brown led them in receiving.

he is gonna be an unemployed ex-coach

the odd thing about the Giants is they have a history of coaches started off well and went in both directions...

Reeves... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year"

Fassel... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year."

Coughlin... went 11-5 in second season but many were writing his obituary after his third season.

McAdoo... went 11-5 and made playoffs in first year

Daboll... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year."


Then there is Parcells... team almost fired him after his first season.

No doubt the Giants got punched in the mouth to start the year. I also think Daboll went to battle with a pretty weak roster.

Again, who knows how much of that is on him. He might not be a great talent evaluator.

but I think now they've gotten alot of the rot out of the building, and need to improve the drafting, get their QB in place, etc.

He needs to be careful reaching on a QB, and he's light on draft picks in 2024 due to a mixed bag of trades with too much emphasis on trying to win now, imv.

In comment 16466159 Eric from BBI said:

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the odd thing about the Giants is they have a history of coaches started off well and went in both directions... Reeves... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year" Fassel... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year." Coughlin... went 11-5 in second season but many were writing his obituary after his third season. McAdoo... went 11-5 and made playoffs in first year Daboll... first year with Giants "Coach of the Year." Then there is Parcells... team almost fired him after his first season.

i dont remember all the ins/outs of scheduling in the 90's, but bad teams who start years with low expectations and easy schedules are 2 checked boxes on a high % of the COY winners.

even coughlins first year looked like it might exceed expectations at 5-2 until warner went into the fetal position from that bears game on (they had 14-0 lead in that one too, so easily could have moved to 6-2).

Without the tantrums.

In comment 16466157 Eric on Li said:

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I don't agree. Although I believe the defense and offensive line will play big parts, the quarterback play will ultimately determine whether the Giants have a sub-17 PPG offensive. if my math is right with tommy devito and tyrod taylor they scored 20 ppg from jones' acl injury week 9 on. with daniel jones healthy in 2022 they scored 21 ppg.

In 2022 with a healthy Jones and Barkley they scored 21 points per game. In 2023 all things considered, they scored sub-17.

I am comfortable predicting the Giants are closer to 17 than 21 if the composite quarterback play is 17 games of a recovering Jones + Lock + DeVito this year.

I hear what you are saying but only one coach can earn "coach of the year"... statistically speaking, it's an interesting trend with the Giants and first year coaches.

In comment 16466165 JonC said:

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He needs to be careful reaching on a QB, and he's light on draft picks in 2024 due to a mixed bag of trades with too much emphasis on trying to win now, imv.

I think the volume of picks required is the key. Because I think in the equation Daboll + (Maye, JJM, Nix, Penix) = good quarterback play.

Now if that takes 6 overall ++ to achieve, that's dangerous.

a playoff game on the road with Jones that's an encouraging sign to feel good about your HC being championship material.

Some of that gets thrown back in doubt by the way the first half of last season started. In my mind, that was a perfect storm of poor preparation, untimely key injuries, and dealing with poor roster moves by the GM.

But Daboll did steady the ship and he squeezed out wins with nothing at stake with one of the worst set of QBs in the league.

In my conclusion, there are more positive signs than negatives with Daboll that indicate he might have the goods to compete for big prizes with a better roster, especially QB.

Was Bruce Arians?
Was Doug Pederson?
Gary Kubiak?

In comment 16466186 4xchamps said:

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Was Bruce Arians? Was Doug Pederson? Gary Kubiak?.

Run along little fella. The grown ups are talking.

In comment 16466184 bw in dc said:

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a playoff game on the road with Jones that's an encouraging sign to feel good about your HC being championship material. Some of that gets thrown back in doubt by the way the first half of last season started. In my mind, that was a perfect storm of poor preparation, untimely key injuries, and dealing with poor roster moves by the GM. But Daboll did steady the ship and he squeezed out wins with nothing at stake with one of the worst set of QBs in the league. In my conclusion, there are more positive signs than negatives with Daboll that indicate he might have the goods to compete for big prizes with a better roster, especially QB.

Agree. He shows a lot of potential. But lack of preparation heading into 2023 was mystifying as was the apparent failure to properly evaluate Jones after '22, which led to the terrible contract.

to start the season. Over reaction to injuries from 22 maybe?
As an OC, his offenses didn't get off to historically bad starts.
They came out firing in 2022. So why last year?? There's got to be something that we are all missing that contributed to it.
Now, once AT got hurt, and the Cowboy game spiraled away from them, it was all downhill from there.
The fact that he eventually steadied the ship and they were basically competitive the last half of the season, made some points with me.
We will all have a better read on him, after this season.

Reeves and McAdoo both benefited from excellent defenses their first year, that for different reasons couldn't maintain their dominance.

In comment 16466174 christian said:

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In comment 16466157 Eric on Li said: Quote: I don't agree. Although I believe the defense and offensive line will play big parts, the quarterback play will ultimately determine whether the Giants have a sub-17 PPG offensive. if my math is right with tommy devito and tyrod taylor they scored 20 ppg from jones' acl injury week 9 on. with daniel jones healthy in 2022 they scored 21 ppg. In 2022 with a healthy Jones and Barkley they scored 21 points per game. In 2023 all things considered, they scored sub-17. I am comfortable predicting the Giants are closer to 17 than 21 if the composite quarterback play is 17 games of a recovering Jones + Lock + DeVito this year.

this isnt complicated, if "all things considered" what was most different from 2022 to 2023? hint: it was historically different.

In comment 16466180 Eric from BBI said:

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I hear what you are saying but only one coach can earn "coach of the year"... statistically speaking, it's an interesting trend with the Giants and first year coaches.

honestlty i think there is some ny bias in there. if you put doug pederson in ny in 2022 and dabs in jax but gave them their same teams, i bet pederson wins. pederson went 9-8 with a team that had the 1st overall pick. beat herbert in playoffs.

Schabs together after 2 years are 15-18-1 … Parcells was 12-19-1 and Bill Belichick was 13-19 in Cleveland. The great Bill Walsh was 8-24 after his first 2 years but then won 13 games in his 3rd year.

This is not the make or break year for Schabs but they have to solve the QB problem or they’ll both soon be history.

In comment 16466189 christian said:

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In comment 16466186 4xchamps said: Quote: Was Bruce Arians? Was Doug Pederson? Gary Kubiak?. Run along little fella. The grown ups are talking.

Go fuck yourself asshat

In comment 16466221 Spider56 said:

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Schabs together after 2 years are 15-18-1 … Parcells was 12-19-1 and Bill Belichick was 13-19 in Cleveland. The great Bill Walsh was 8-24 after his first 2 years but then won 13 games in his 3rd year. This is not the make or break year for Schabs but they have to solve the QB problem or they’ll both soon be history.

Geezus with the focus on one G*d*mn position on the team. If the team - THE WHOLE TEAM - comes out as unprepared as last season and the OL and WHOLE OFFENSE doesn't improve that is what will kill this regime.

until they are.