Tiki Barber hopes the Giants do not draft J.J. McCarthy

but majority of scouts say otherwise.

Don’t forget that Tiki was famously right about Eli summer 2007…

what he ISN'T saying is, just because he wasn't asked to do it, doesn't mean he can't. Just means its not on tape.
Drafting him will take the biggest projection and the BIGGEST leap of faith.
Take him over an ELITE level WR? I'm having a really HARD time with that one.

with his build the foundation first philosophy.

"Too many teams in the NFL get enamored with building from the head," Barber continued. "You gotta build the legs and that (butt) first. ... Teams that are sitting where they are now, they built it that way. The Kansas City Chiefs built it that way. Did they have a great quarterback in Alex Smith? No. But he was pretty good enough, right? Won double-digit games for long enough, and the foundation was built. And look where they are.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 16466215 GFAN52 said:

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with his build the foundation first philosophy. "Too many teams in the NFL get enamored with building from the head," Barber continued. "You gotta build the legs and that (butt) first. ... Teams that are sitting where they are now, they built it that way. The Kansas City Chiefs built it that way. Did they have a great quarterback in Alex Smith? No. But he was pretty good enough, right? Won double-digit games for long enough, and the foundation was built. And look where they are. Link - ( New Window )

So all the Giants have to do is get really good, and then draft Patrick Mahomes. Cool.

I like him in that role so I'm not putting him down, just saying, his word is not to be taken as any indication of NYG plans or thought process.

The impression I got from the games I watched was that JJ is a good game manager, but I didn't see him as a guy that could carry a team on his back the way elite QBs do.

who called Daniel Jones a franchise QB.

In comment 16466218 rsjem1979 said:

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In comment 16466215 GFAN52 said: Quote: with his build the foundation first philosophy. "Too many teams in the NFL get enamored with building from the head," Barber continued. "You gotta build the legs and that (butt) first. ... Teams that are sitting where they are now, they built it that way. The Kansas City Chiefs built it that way. Did they have a great quarterback in Alex Smith? No. But he was pretty good enough, right? Won double-digit games for long enough, and the foundation was built. And look where they are. Link - ( New Window ) So all the Giants have to do is get really good, and then draft Patrick Mahomes. Cool.

I certainly don't agree with it. People always bring up KC and SF. I don't believe the Giants had a great foundation when they drafted Eli.

as much as possible. He picks 5th and if QBs go 1-4, he basically has the 1st pick in the non QB draft.

saying things that get repeated enough that he can continue getting paid to talk into a microphone.

In comment 16466225 Chris684 said:

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I like him in that role so I'm not putting him down, just saying, his word is not to be taken as any indication of NYG plans or thought process.

Agreed. He's just giving his opinion. His reasons stated are not outlandish and his opinion is shared by many.

Neither was Josh Allen or Aaron Rodgers or Jalen Hurts or Brock Purdy and… well, we know the list.

It’s not crazy to try to be “good enough” at QB, build up the rest of the team and add the QB later. The Bills went to the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor at QB.

I think reasonable people can disagree about what the best plan is, but this is a legitimate strategy. The problem for the Giants is: Are DJ or Drew Lock “good enough”? Maybe. But I doubt it.

Another strategy: Sign Dak Prescott in free agency. Tiki hates that idea. So do I. I look at Dak and see Craig Morton.

I hope he is available at 6 so we find out what the Giants really think of him.

it is to get people listening. You do that by having strong, and often extreme opinions. If he talks about how there are a lot of things to like about all the QBs, who is tuning in to listen to that?

He is not a scout giving a detailed analysis. He is a radio personality trying to entertain an audience.

and passed on Pat Mahomes because their priority was to build the infrastructure first, it would have been a massive mistake. If you don't have one of those guys at QB, you make your move when the opportunity presents itself because there is only so much that's in your control. It has to be reasonable though. "At all cost" is a poor strategy given the probability of success. But if you have the conviction on a guy who is available and within range, yes, being aggressive is warranted.

I never watched JJ play and thought to myself, this guy is going to be a hell of a pro. I mean he essentially played on all star college team with a run first, second, third, and fourth mentality. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a good pro, but i think it’s fair to say that he did not show it on the field in college.

Also, why all the reflexive defensiveness from posters over JJ McCarthy? As giants fans, he’s nothing to us right now. Very weird.

In comment 16466265 UberAlias said:

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and passed on Pat Mahomes because their priority was to build the infrastructure first, it would have been a massive mistake. If you don't have one of those guys at QB, you make your move when the opportunity presents itself because there is only so much that's in your control. It has to be reasonable though. "At all cost" is a poor strategy given the probability of success. But if you have the conviction on a guy who is available and within range, yes, being aggressive is warranted.

Agreed.

really not saying anything crazy. McCarthy always had question marks.

I don't listen that often though. I struggle to listen to his partner for more than about 10 minutes.

I feel comfortable speaking to all things Giants from Super Bowl I to the present. IMO Tiki is the best RB to play for the Giants in the Super Bowl era by a wide margin. But I don't always agree with what he says about the Giants and the NFL in general.

No one needs to remind me that Tiki has forgotten more about football today than I will know in my entire life but that doesn't stop me from disagreeing with him sometimes.

We know Williams is going to Chicago and right now there seems to be a consensus that Daniels is going to Washington. That leaves Maye, McCarthy, Harrison Jr and Naybers as the consensus next 4 picks.

We've heard from so many people in the media, ex players, draft "experts" and sports radio hosts, regarding Maye and McCarthy. Some people are high or low on one or the other. Regardless of their evaluation experience and expertise history tells us everyone is guessing until the players get into an NFL huddle. Some people think McCarthy has the ideal NFL QB skill set on and off the field.

Personally if the Giants draft any of Maye, McCarthy, Harrison Jr or Naybers I'll be excited and hopeful they made a good choice.

Maybe Joe wants to spread disinformation on JJ.......maybe not.

I will say this...so far, we have no real idea what Joe is thinking and that is fine with me!

We can speculate all we want, but ultimately Joe is going to do what Joe wants to do!

But in this case, I could not agree more. JJM is a massive reach at six. Let someone else be the inept GM this year who overdrafts a middling talent with great intangibles in the top ten of the draft a la Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Daniel Jones etc etc etc. The problem is, Schoen's incentives may be more aligned with buying time in his role as Gettleman did with DJ than with rebuilding a roster to win championships. We'll find out shortly.

mention of the Michigan offense to be very interesting. I don't know what I'm looking at on tv, but was it very simple? Was he not asked to make multiple reads, etc.?

That said, I believe Mahomes ran a simple offense in college.

Then the next thing I know someone is saying he's the number 2 QB. I ve heard some say JJM is the number 3 QB. Hell Chris Simms says Nix is the number 2 guy. I give up. I sure don't and many of these ex-players and QBs are going to be wrong. I like Kipers last mock. I believe it was Nabors at 6 and a trade up for Nix . The first pick in the second round. To me a lot less gamble. I have a feeling I m gonna come away from this draft the same way I did the Daniel Jones draft. Surprised because I thought for sure they were picking Haskins . Yet although not cheering the pick supportive and hoping he was as good as they thought. Turns out neither choice would have been correct.

In comment 16466262 ZogZerg said:

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I hope he is available at 6 so we find out what the Giants really think of him.

+1

With Caleb out of reach, Maye is the only QB I'd want the Giants to trade up for. If that can't happen, then I'd hope the Giants chose one of the WRs (preferably Nabers).

However, in 2018 I wanted them to draft Rosen, but I allowed for the fact that the Giants might prefer one of the other QBs from that draft, so I was willing to defer to their opinion if they liked another QB better.

I feel the same about this draft. I don't like JJ, but what do I know?

In comment 16466265 UberAlias said:

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and passed on Pat Mahomes because their priority was to build the infrastructure first, it would have been a massive mistake. If you don't have one of those guys at QB, you make your move when the opportunity presents itself because there is only so much that's in your control. It has to be reasonable though. "At all cost" is a poor strategy given the probability of success. But if you have the conviction on a guy who is available and within range, yes, being aggressive is warranted.

And they already had a solid starter in Alex Smith. Gutsy move.

In comment 16466226 Beer Man said:

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The impression I got from the games I watched was that JJ is a good game manager, but I didn't see him as a guy that could carry a team on his back the way elite QBs do.

He carried their offense in several big games. People are disoriented with him because he didn't play in a wide open offense with awesome receivers on the outside and a wall in front of him.

Jayden Daniels has many issues (watch the review from BigBlueBanters podcast which highlights all of it) and yet some feel like he's this stone cold lock to be the next top QB. But because he can run (he's a dangerous runner in a good and bad way) and had big stats with two top 12 WR's he was throwing to, they can't keep their weiner in their pants for him.
Big Blue Banter on Jayden Daniels - ( New Window )

I'm no analyst, but still I don't see it.
If they pick him at 6, I'll just have to live with it because I really don't have any other choice of course.

But if we trade assets to go up and get him, I'll be angry. Honestly, I already feel the urge to say, "I told you so!" while the franchise messaging is "..be patient, he's young,...growing pains, etc."

In comment 16466207 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Don’t forget that Tiki was famously right about Eli summer 2007…

+1, liked him as a Giants RB, but the next wise statement he makes will be the first.

in college. He will get destroyed in the pros if he pulls that primodona stuff.

From the Michigan games I watched, he wasn’t the focal point of the offense. He was a game manager at best. I also have a friend who’s a big time Michigan fan, and he tells me he loves the kid’s leadership traits but he wouldn’t touch until at minimum the 2nd round. He just doesn’t have the arm talent to be an elite NFL quarterback.

I know scouts love his poise and his 3rd down efficiency, but that won’t translate to the NFL level where the playing field is level and the team around you isn’t so much better than the opponent. Just my $0.02 on the matter.

In comment 16466232 Spider56 said:

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as much as possible. He picks 5th and if QBs go 1-4, he basically has the 1st pick in the non QB draft.

well posted sir.

In comment 16466206 BeckShepEli said:

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but majority of scouts say otherwise.

yes.. lets listen to the scouts. Most of them had Evan Neal ranked in the top 10. Sam Darnold, we can play this game forever.

Tiki has an opinion just like everyone else. It is not weighted any more or less.

Side note - have all of these scouts published their player rankings for you? Just wondering how you established the "majority"

Only one.

In comment 16466440 Rich_Houston_1971 said:

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in college. He will get destroyed in the pros if he pulls that primodona stuff.

You should think before you post

Tiki was a mouthpiece for Mara.

If Tiki is saying the Giants won't take McCarthy it's because that's what Mara wants him to say.

If they are saying they don't want McCarthy, it's because the want McCarthy.


A slick way to outfigure a person is to get him figuring you figure he's figuring you're figuring he'll figure you aren't really figuring what you want him to figure you figure.

--Whitey Herzog

But, and this is a big but, his velocity was 61mph. No one has beaten 60 since...Josh Allen. That's tool 1a for a QB in the cold windy NE. He's clearly a leader and a winner and despite the simplified offense, he ran it to near perfection. That's a lot of boxes checked.

In comment 16466231 GFAN52 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466218 rsjem1979 said: Quote: In comment 16466215 GFAN52 said: Quote: with his build the foundation first philosophy. "Too many teams in the NFL get enamored with building from the head," Barber continued. "You gotta build the legs and that (butt) first. ... Teams that are sitting where they are now, they built it that way. The Kansas City Chiefs built it that way. Did they have a great quarterback in Alex Smith? No. But he was pretty good enough, right? Won double-digit games for long enough, and the foundation was built. And look where they are. Link - ( New Window ) So all the Giants have to do is get really good, and then draft Patrick Mahomes. Cool. I certainly don't agree with it. People always bring up KC and SF. I don't believe the Giants had a great foundation when they drafted Eli.

The foundation was better than what they have now.

In comment 16466495 Mbavaro said:

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In comment 16466440 Rich_Houston_1971 said: Quote: in college. He will get destroyed in the pros if he pulls that primodona stuff. You should think before you post

Just saying, what I mean is he is going to take ribbing from players and fans of opposing teams..I can only imagine what Eagle fans would do pregame if they saw him in meditation focus.

Too many ad hominem arguments here

In comment 16466689 Festina Lente said:

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Too many ad hominem arguments here

I am a true believer in meditation. I just worry in JJM case how that will translate to the pros and seeing it by opposing fan bases in pregame. JJM must have a strong mind to put up with any negativity that can happen.

In comment 16466231 GFAN52 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466218 rsjem1979 said: Quote: In comment 16466215 GFAN52 said: Quote: with his build the foundation first philosophy. "Too many teams in the NFL get enamored with building from the head," Barber continued. "You gotta build the legs and that (butt) first. ... Teams that are sitting where they are now, they built it that way. The Kansas City Chiefs built it that way. Did they have a great quarterback in Alex Smith? No. But he was pretty good enough, right? Won double-digit games for long enough, and the foundation was built. And look where they are. Link - ( New Window ) So all the Giants have to do is get really good, and then draft Patrick Mahomes. Cool. I certainly don't agree with it. People always bring up KC and SF. I don't believe the Giants had a great foundation when they drafted Eli.

And Eli got thrown to the wolves in the last half of his rookie year. He was lit up. But Eli is built different with that Manning gene. Even keel, incredibly durable, no quit... They built up the line and the team a bit around him and he got them 2 Super Bowls. Not saying DJ is Eli, but he has a lot of the same intangibles. He was also thrown to the wolves by Judge and last season was an anomaly with the number of injuries to the offense. Rookie year and 2022 were pretty good looks at what he can do with support. I don't have high expectations but I also don't think there is a QB in the draft after Williams/Maye/Daniels that is worth #6 and definitely not worth trading up for. Get an elite WR. DJ will get us through this season (and may even surprise) since we are paying him anyway. Then in 2025, we get a QB and plug him in and he doesn't get killed weekly.

Immaculate in details, is correct in general theme.

The Michigan theme was fine. McCarthy ran a lot of pro concepts. What he didn’t do is make a lot of professional throws outside of the numbers or 25+ yards downfield. And it wasn’t because of the scheme. He also had plenty of time, and receivers who let’s face it arent great but we’re adequate enough at the college level.

I just don’t see how you can take him at 6. You’re rolling the dice that he somehow morphes into this QB who makes big time throws that he wasn’t making at UM with a clean pocket and great running game that really helped set up the pass

In comment 16466890 Breeze_94 said:

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Immaculate in details, is correct in general theme. The Michigan theme was fine. McCarthy ran a lot of pro concepts. What he didn’t do is make a lot of professional throws outside of the numbers or 25+ yards downfield. And it wasn’t because of the scheme. He also had plenty of time, and receivers who let’s face it arent great but we’re adequate enough at the college level. I just don’t see how you can take him at 6. You’re rolling the dice that he somehow morphes into this QB who makes big time throws that he wasn’t making at UM with a clean pocket and great running game that really helped set up the pass

His OL was putrid in pass blocking. And his WRs outside Wilson were below average.

In comment 16466892 JT039 said:

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His OL was putrid in pass blocking. And his WRs outside Wilson were below average.

The TEs weren't average.

In comment 16466898 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16466892 JT039 said: Quote: His OL was putrid in pass blocking. And his WRs outside Wilson were below average. The TEs weren't average.

Loveland is a good one. Barner is meh.

But their tackles were not average like many attest here thst they are.

In comment 16466723 ZoneXDOA said:

Quote:

In comment 16466231 GFAN52 said: Quote: In comment 16466218 rsjem1979 said: Quote: In comment 16466215 GFAN52 said: Quote: with his build the foundation first philosophy. "Too many teams in the NFL get enamored with building from the head," Barber continued. "You gotta build the legs and that (butt) first. ... Teams that are sitting where they are now, they built it that way. The Kansas City Chiefs built it that way. Did they have a great quarterback in Alex Smith? No. But he was pretty good enough, right? Won double-digit games for long enough, and the foundation was built. And look where they are. Link - ( New Window ) So all the Giants have to do is get really good, and then draft Patrick Mahomes. Cool. I certainly don't agree with it. People always bring up KC and SF. I don't believe the Giants had a great foundation when they drafted Eli. And Eli got thrown to the wolves in the last half of his rookie year. He was lit up. But Eli is built different with that Manning gene. Even keel, incredibly durable, no quit... They built up the line and the team a bit around him and he got them 2 Super Bowls. Not saying DJ is Eli, but he has a lot of the same intangibles. He was also thrown to the wolves by Judge and last season was an anomaly with the number of injuries to the offense. Rookie year and 2022 were pretty good looks at what he can do with support. I don't have high expectations but I also don't think there is a QB in the draft after Williams/Maye/Daniels that is worth #6 and definitely not worth trading up for. Get an elite WR. DJ will get us through this season (and may even surprise) since we are paying him anyway. Then in 2025, we get a QB and plug him in and he doesn't get killed weekly.

2025 is the big unknown. Where will the Giants finish in terms of drafting position. If they end up in the teens or 20's in drafting slot, they may have to punt again to 2026.

Totally neglect QB and build a juggernaught team around a mediocre QB.

Shit - that means we could probably still deal with Jones and Co.

but he and I think alike on this one

In comment 16466908 GFAN52 said:

Quote:

In comment 16466723 ZoneXDOA said: Quote: In comment 16466231 GFAN52 said: Quote: In comment 16466218 rsjem1979 said: Quote: In comment 16466215 GFAN52 said: Quote: with his build the foundation first philosophy. "Too many teams in the NFL get enamored with building from the head," Barber continued. "You gotta build the legs and that (butt) first. ... Teams that are sitting where they are now, they built it that way. The Kansas City Chiefs built it that way. Did they have a great quarterback in Alex Smith? No. But he was pretty good enough, right? Won double-digit games for long enough, and the foundation was built. And look where they are. Link - ( New Window ) So all the Giants have to do is get really good, and then draft Patrick Mahomes. Cool. I certainly don't agree with it. People always bring up KC and SF. I don't believe the Giants had a great foundation when they drafted Eli. And Eli got thrown to the wolves in the last half of his rookie year. He was lit up. But Eli is built different with that Manning gene. Even keel, incredibly durable, no quit... They built up the line and the team a bit around him and he got them 2 Super Bowls. Not saying DJ is Eli, but he has a lot of the same intangibles. He was also thrown to the wolves by Judge and last season was an anomaly with the number of injuries to the offense. Rookie year and 2022 were pretty good looks at what he can do with support. I don't have high expectations but I also don't think there is a QB in the draft after Williams/Maye/Daniels that is worth #6 and definitely not worth trading up for. Get an elite WR. DJ will get us through this season (and may even surprise) since we are paying him anyway. Then in 2025, we get a QB and plug him in and he doesn't get killed weekly. 2025 is the big unknown. Where will the Giants finish in terms of drafting position. If they end up in the teens or 20's in drafting slot, they may have to punt again to 2026.

If Maye or JJM is there at 6 I'd take them, but I wouldn't trade anything more than a 2025 2nd and 3rd to move up so most likely stay at 6 is best option to me.

In comment 16466447 JoeyBigBlue said:

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From the Michigan games I watched, he wasn’t the focal point of the offense. He was a game manager at best. I also have a friend who’s a big time Michigan fan, and he tells me he loves the kid’s leadership traits but he wouldn’t touch until at minimum the 2nd round. He just doesn’t have the arm talent to be an elite NFL quarterback. I know scouts love his poise and his 3rd down efficiency, but that won’t translate to the NFL level where the playing field is level and the team around you isn’t so much better than the opponent. Just my $0.02 on the matter.

Hopefully is we draft McCarthy we can get him a set up like the one that he had at Michigan where he proved he was a winner - a team that is only expected to be playing a team with a similar level of talent 3 or 4 weeks out of the year. Hopefully - like Michigan - most of his games with the Giants will be him at the helm of a team that is a 20-30 point favorite almost every week.

It will be good for McCarthy to get his first taste of adversity in the NFL with the eyes of a frustrated New York on him and see how he does.

Will be a good one. The reverse blessing of Tiki! It worked with Eli!!

According to one of our helpful resident asshats! Anti-JJM crowd, rejoice!

This is Zach Wilson all over again