QB Daniel Jones on First Downs in 2023

But how was he on first downs against the Vikings? Because that's the true measure of his ability and potential.

site has gone back and forth on Daniel Jones for years now. Those who like him will come up with something, those who don't like him will come up with something else.

But beyond this, THE PLAYERS know. We saw the first hints of that with Giants saying Saquon should have been paid before Daniel.

Now we have draft prospects bad-mouthing him in the media.

I saw a pundit yesterday just matter-of-factly state the obvious... "Daniel doesn't throw the ball down the field." What was the biggest difference between Taylor/DeVito and Jones? We all saw it. They took shots down the field. With the same cast of characters.

Then there is the whole injury thing, which may end this once and for all.

The problem? If the attitude that Schmeelk, Cross, and Dottino have permeates that building, holy shit.

In comment 16466261 santacruzom said:

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But how was he on first downs against the Vikings? Because that's the true measure of his ability and potential.

Only the 2022 Vikings.

Claiming a QB has to be top 8 in the NFL to draft at 6 (or whatever they were saying) is silly.

being 48 out of 48 is not going to work.

In comment 16466261 santacruzom said:

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But how was he on first downs against the Vikings? Because that's the true measure of his ability and potential.

I see what you did there, Mr. Mara.

He's just not good enough. Bizarre contract given looking back. I think Schoen will do whatever it takes to draft a QB.

If not, start Lock and draft a mid round QB. I still lean first round QB though.

In comment 16466273 ZogZerg said:

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Claiming a QB has to be top 8 in the NFL to draft at 6 (or whatever they were saying) is silly. being 48 out of 48 is not going to work.

To be fair, I do understand their point there and do agree with it to a certain extent. I'd rather draft the WR than draft a 15th-ranked QB.

What I have an issue with is anyone in that building who thinks Jones is an acceptable fallback option.

But he’s a nice polite kid who works hard.

The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing.

Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

If they draft him over the almost certain star receiver.

I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.)

It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career.

I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB.

We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

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I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

He's terrible. He makes the line worse by holding the ball too long and not seeing the field. He's a bust.

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

Thibodeaux implied this with saying Barkley should have been paid. Just imagine Barkley lighting it up for Philly while Jones is running prematurely and checking down. It will get UGLY.

It's why I think there is a real chance Lock is the starter here whether QB is drafted or not.

Rich Eisen at the combine: "The Giants are done with Daniel Jones."

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

If they don't draft a QB, watch and see what happens around here. The rhetoric will be back to Jones being a good player who was a victim of the circumstances around him.

I am not rooting for the guy to stay hurt, but they might need his knee or neck to take a year to heal. It may be the only way to save them from themselves.

The problem with keep bringing up 2022 was the offense was based around the run, including Jones.

They got a little bit of rhythm late in the year when they used Jones' feet on misdirection runs and play-action off of that. Some defenses kept falling for it. But when they didn't, so ended the productivity.

In other words, the Daboll and Kafka schemed the offense around Jones' liabilities.

It's what makes the contract they gave him even more confusing. Again, I think they overreacted to Saquon telling them no. I pray it was Mara being stupid again rather than the alternative, because the alternative is a huge knock against the regime.

I just find the whole Jones thing extremely odd. There’s a huge disconnect between what people inside of 1925 Giants Way think about him compared to what those outside that building view him, be it BBI, most of the media, players in the league, & the like.

One of the stranger things I’ve witnessed as a Giants fan. The dude is going into his sixth season. It isn’t like he was drafted in ‘22 or something. He’s been around for awhile.

And then there’s the Mara quotes from that RV article the other day about how John-more than anyone else in the building-believes in Jones. I will never understand his seeming devotion to this guy. It’s like Wellington pounding on the table in 97 for Dave Brown in an alternative universe.

since 2019.

And 0% on QB since selecting Jones in 2019.

It's time to help the OL with better QB play.

In comment 16466261 santacruzom said:

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But how was he on first downs against the Vikings? Because that's the true measure of his ability and potential.

LOL...

But at least he's the first guy in the building in the morning!!!

Who cares about passing for yards or touchdowns!

In comment 16466267 Eric from BBI said:

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site has gone back and forth on Daniel Jones for years now. Those who like him will come up with something, those who don't like him will come up with something else. But beyond this, THE PLAYERS know. We saw the first hints of that with Giants saying Saquon should have been paid before Daniel. Now we have draft prospects bad-mouthing him in the media. I saw a pundit yesterday just matter-of-factly state the obvious... "Daniel doesn't throw the ball down the field." What was the biggest difference between Taylor/DeVito and Jones? We all saw it. They took shots down the field. With the same cast of characters. Then there is the whole injury thing, which may end this once and for all. The problem? If the attitude that Schmeelk, Cross, and Dottino have permeates that building, holy shit.

Just to play along, who really "LIKES" Jones, here? Some are willing to live with him as a starter for another year especially if NYG tried but couldn't trade up or land the high QB. Not saying you, but this place has managed to turn some relatively luke warm takes on Jones into exaggerated fan boy extreme loyalty to Jones.

There's really only one extreme take here on Jones. Excluding 1-2 posters who almost seem to be trolling with weird Jones love, most of the rational takes seem to have accepted Jones and the QB situation for what it is. And then you have the same 10 or so people that twist shit.

I don't think there are more than 3 posters here that truly WANT or insist that Jones is the end all be all QB here. Not even sure you could list 2.

In comment 16466299 Eric from BBI said:

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The problem with keep bringing up 2022 was the offense was based around the run, including Jones. They got a little bit of rhythm late in the year when they used Jones' feet on misdirection runs and play-action off of that. Some defenses kept falling for it. But when they didn't, so ended the productivity. In other words, the Daboll and Kafka schemed the offense around Jones' liabilities. It's what makes the contract they gave him even more confusing. Again, I think they overreacted to Saquon telling them no. I pray it was Mara being stupid again rather than the alternative, because the alternative is a huge knock against the regime.

I am convinced that contract was on Mara and the "two year out" was Mara's way of placating Schoen and Daboll with "well if it doesn't work after 2 years we do it your way". Schoen and Daboll aren't that stupid to give that contract to Jones by themselves.

Mara: "We'll try it my way first to see if you can fix Daniel because we've done everything we can to screw him up..." Mara still chasing ghosts. It's sad.

Because its been obvious for years

Jones has twice had the lowest TD to Pass Attempts ratio in NFL history for those over 100 attempts with just 2 TDs in 2023 and 2020 through the first 6 games.

Its mind boggling that this is even a debate and its been this way since the end of 2020 when it should have been apparent to all

I don’t disagree with your post.

But what’s troubling is that Mara is seemingly in love with Jones. I just hope the reports of him letting Joe and Dabs run the show are true.

I wrote about this when it happened last year, the minute Taylor and DeVito did what they did, the bottom dropped out.

You couldn't have written a worse script for Jones... the blocked field goal with Thomas getting hurt, the OL injuries piling up, Waller getting hurt right before the season started, the neck, the ACL, etc.

But the cherry on top was the play of Taylor and DeVito.

its not that hard for the defense to figure it out.

or they were doing what the trio wanted when Schoen and Daboll gave Jones his 2nd contract doesn't matter anymore.

The GM and HC know that Daniel Jones is not the guy and by far the biggest problem they have to deal with in order to keep their jobs in 2025. They have shown us and told us. I think the trio won't allow it to be easy for them to make a QB change if Jones passes a physical. I think if they don't find a new QB quickly and bench then released him Schoen will be the 2nd GM and Daboll the 3rd HC that Jones gets fired.

January 8, 2024

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"Ultimately we have to do something," Schoen told reporters. "Whether it's the draft or a free agent, just because Tyrod's contract is up. We have Tommy, who's under contract, and then Daniel's injury -- the return to play and the uncertainty there. "When free agency starts, the draft. Whichever avenue we decide to take, we will address the position."

A picture in this case is worth 82 million words

before Taylor started his second game (and obviously before the ACL later on):

"Is Jones a dud or a tragic figure? Valid arguments can be made for either point of view. However, after this week, there will only be 10 games left in the NYG season. Unless Jones returns soon and then lights it up in the last 10 games, can this franchise operate under the assumption that they have a quarterback? I don’t think so. And I’m pretty darn sure Jones isn’t going to go on a 10-game run where he erases all doubt. What I’m suggesting is that this may be Jones’ final season with the team. Ownership and management gambled and lost with Jones. They’ll have to eat what’s left of the contract and move on. If they don’t, they are simply prolonging the inevitable. Jones isn’t performing. And he’s damaged goods, a running quarterback with a bad neck. Tyrod Taylor is one good performance away from sealing Jones’ fate. If Taylor fails, it reinforces the impression that the team has no quarterback."

For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened?

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

The reaction I got from a couple people in the league when he signed the contract was literal laughter.

Only Mara and the Giants didn’t see it.

In comment 16466352 ajr2456 said:

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For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened?

Danny Kanell got the Giants to the playoffs too.

Imagine getting a GM job and not swinging the bat? He's a risk of that going with Jones in 2024.

My guess is Maye is the prize, he wants to hitch his wagon to the prospect of Maye becoming a franchise QB. I think he's going to pay the cost to move up and it'll be a lot.

Because play out this scenario: NYG drafts Nabers. He's already made comments about the QB situation here. He doesn't get the ball and gets frustrated. Thibodeaux starts talking. The team is 3-7. Fans are booing. It's ugly.

It's not out of the question Mara cleans house again. In that case, Schoen never swung the bat at QB. He just maintained Gettleman's path which he didn't even agree with based on his initial actions.

Early specifically McCarthy or Maye (cue the Cris Carter poster in here and he knows who he is).

But the differences in what Jones faced AND had to pair with were not mutually exclusive with DeVito and Tyrod at all. Facing the Cowboys, Niners, and healthy Dolphins front is much different than the 32nd ranked defense from Washington, injury mauled Bills defense (scoring 9 pts to top off that cherry), and how the Eagles defense looked in the final half of the season. Woof. No Wan'Dale who was the Giants best WR in 2023. No Saquon. Ezeudu was a turnstile and so was Glowinski, Bredeson and others inside. But I find that to the fault of bad coaching between Daboll and Bobby Johnson. No reason whatsoever the team should be lining up Ezeudu at LT when he barely has ever played there.

And again, I want a QB at #6. Daniel suffering two serious neck injuries in three seasons apart is a major risk for his life, much less football.

This is the important quote-

"If they don’t, they are simply prolonging the inevitable."

What exactly is the point of giving Jones another season? He is not the answer, how much evidence do you need? Even if they miss out on the top qbs, let Lock or someone else start to see if you can catch lightning in a bottle.

But I'm starting to get convinced Jones is getting another season.

I might be on an island on this, but given his injury history and the injury clause in his contract…I wouldn’t even let him see the field this fall.

and will say it again here, the Giants won in 2022 with Jones- not because of him. Meaning, they were able to use things he did well and minimize things he doesn't do well (for the most part) and that led to a winning season. BUT he had 15 TD passes total. I know the receivers were shit but still, 15 in 17 (possible) games is average to below average at best.

Everyone points to different moments when it became obvious things with Jones here were done but for me last year it was the Seattle game. A game where two teams were playing each other with very similar issues- Seattles Oline was beaten up and they lost two more players during the game. The Giants Oline was beaten up but we were playing at home and were somewhat healthier that night than the previous weeks.

Jones looked like shit. He threw a boneheaded pick six in the RED ZONE that basically killed the game, the season etc.. You can't play like that and it just sort of exemplified his years here.

The funny thing is, if we had won that game and beaten Buffalo and the Jets, this team probably makes the playoffs last year- which would have bought Jones even more time. So in reality it was a necessary development, result to hopefully finally move away from him.

The neck injury is serious- regardless of what he or the Giants say publicly. Go back to the Dallas game where he was concussed (that looks neck related now) and then the Eagles game where it ended his season. Now fast forward to the Dolphins game this year. That shot to the back was pretty good but should not have caused the issues he had without there being a compression of nerves in the spinal column.. The dude is a health risk we shouldn't take and at his VERY best (meaning effectiveness and mistake free) he is a 15 TD pass QB with a rushing upside as long as defenses fall for our movement and implied RB threat... That just isn't good enough...

In comment 16466317 djm said:

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Just to play along, who really "LIKES" Jones, here?

Just a partial list, but...

Jack Stroud
ryanmkeane
Snorkels
4xchamps
kickoff
Eightshamrocks

Should I continue?

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

People always reference the Seattle game, but for me the turning point was the San Francisco Thursday night game when the 49ers talked trash about his contract and the Giants had such a bloodless response.

It wasn't that his performance in that game was world historically terrible, but he was, as Sy said in his review, "just there," and that type of thing gets noticed when you're paid $40 million.

are the laughingstock of the league. It's pathetic, and Mara just doesn't see it because Jones is a nice guy.

I honestly cannot believe we're going into year 6 with the same tired "he needs more weapons!" narrative. How many chances will one player get to show he sucks?

As I and others have said, if they don't take a QB and Jones doesn't get off to a fast start things are going to get really really ugly. Like booing every time Jones snaps the ball.

It should have never gotten to this point.

I feel even if the Giants do not get the top four, it still isn't a lock Jones starts or sees the field.

The injury clause is a huge deal and something guys like Schmeelk and Dottino feel like isn't a big deal long term.

In comment 16466390 Toth029 said:

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I feel even if the Giants do not get the top four, it still isn't a lock Jones starts or sees the field. The injury clause is a huge deal and something guys like Schmeelk and Dottino feel like isn't a big deal long term.

I just don't think Mara will allow Daboll to sit him due to the injury clause. It's not the way the Giants operate even if that's what a smart football team would do. But I hope you're right

In comment 16466354 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16466352 ajr2456 said: Quote: For crying out loud. How could you forget that happened? Danny Kanell got the Giants to the playoffs too.

Kannel was a passenger who couldn't throw for 200 yards if his life depended on it. Jones helped the Giants get to the playoffs. There's a difference.

In comment 16466366 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 16466317 djm said: Quote: Just to play along, who really "LIKES" Jones, here? Just a partial list, but... Jack Stroud ryanmkeane Snorkels 4xchamps kickoff Eightshamrocks Should I continue?

Wow 6. And I am sure every one of them not named Jack goes out of their way to INSIST that Jones is the guy to build around. By "like" I mean insist that this guy is the answer going forward.

It aint 6. More like 2.

And no one goes nuts like the terrific ten here that nuke each and every thread.

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

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I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now.

David Carr stunk and so does Jones.

this place has gone full extreme with Jones and that side of the fence loves every second of it. The takes that don't completely condemn Jones even if they do call out his play and future here are more rational than the hose shit we se from the same posters day after day.

I mean the ringleader here literally said Dave Brown was better. Eric just conjured up Danny Kannel. Danny Fucking Kannel??

WTF happened here? Try to make your point without hyperbole.

In comment 16466283 Eric from BBI said:

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The reaction of the pundits to playing the Nabers clip talking about Jones? Everyone bursts out laughing. Our QB situation is LITERALLY a joke.

You can expand that to our entire team, front office, etc are all a laughingstock. When you give a voice in personnel to family members, friends, and hangers-on, you deserve to be laughed at. This goes all the way back to the Wellington/Tim days... Where is Pete Rozelle when you need him.

done.

are way way off. He is bad. Very bad. You cannot coach around a stat like this .

Kerry Collins had the Giants in the Super Bowl. Had multiple winning seasons and over 4000 yards passing his 2nd to last year with the Giants. The Giants still traded multiple assets for Eli because they needed to upgrade to have a real chance at a championship. At some point a team needs to try and get the QB. This year seems like a good one to try.

Who said Dave Brown was better?

In comment 16466287 mittenedman said:

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I'm not sure if it's people didn't actually play the game or what, but when a QB is getting the sh#t kicked out of him on a regular basis, everything goes to hell. (The internal clock is f#cked.) It even happened to Eli Manning late in his career. I'm beyond tired of this endless DJ debate - some factor in the dysfunction and bad supporting cast and some don't. Either way, we all know he's damaged goods and likely David Carr'd by now. Looks like he'll get one more chance to prove otherwise, but it'll likely be an audition for another team if the Giants can trade up for a QB. We can all have our opinions on the guy, but one of the only facts we have is that the situation around him has been as bad as it gets in the NFL virtually his entire career. The one year things were semi-functional - 2022 - he looked solid. And even then - with a bad supporting cast.

Anyway you slice it, we need to move on. The history of serious injuries, supposedly altered throwing motion, the beating he has taken, whatever, it needs to be over. Every game DJ plays from here on out is another wasted game until we start moving forward.