I'm sure the video will be posted soon.
A couple of things:
He covers college football for The Athletic so comes into this process with that perspective. He talks to a lot of college coaches so he had a lot of quotes similar to what Bob McGinn used to do.
Regarding Maye, he said one college defensive coordinator said you can rattle him... seemed similar to a comment Sy'56 made on a podcast questioning Maye's toughness. Any regular NC fans out there care to comment?
Feldman also said the two surest bets in the draft are Harrison Jr. and Odunze.
Personally, Odunze is my favorite prospect in this draft.
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If the Giants were picking #1 or #2, they would be taking a QB.
That's not the issue.
The issue is QB evaluation.
How is Maye worth a trade up, but Penix is not worth sitting at 6 and picking him there?
I believe there is a good chance Penix slides into the back of rd1 at which point a team will trade up for him I bet. I'd imagine Schoen has a feel for this. So, if we take Odunze or Nabers at 6 I'll be keeping a close eye on Penix potentially sliding within reach.
nobody is the pros included - so much of it is mental and we have no access to or ability to analyze it beyond very far downstream signals (like wonderlic, etc).
bryce young is the only qb i'd have pounded a table for in the last half decade because his field vision was so obviously undeniable and while i still think he will be a good player most already consider him a bust.
After that it’s Harrison because he is the surest player. He may not turn out to be the best WR but he is as sure a thing as there is. Next I go Nabors, for the electric play. It’s close with Odunze and I would take any of the 3 but I think Daboll offense fits Nabors better. I am a little worried about his attitude though, so hard to know if that Diva is just a little too much for the Giants
Join the club.
Odunze won 85% of his contested catches and despite what some are saying the passes were not accurate. If they had been accurate by definition they would not be contested.
Many times the ball was short when Odunze had steps on the defender.
There were many times were Penix would just throw the ball up knowing that Odunze was special.
Much in the way Odunze helped Penix, he would do that for any QB.
How can the Giants draft a player who is 24 years old, injury-prone (missed 4 seasons due to injury), is inaccurate in the middle of the field, is the worst among the top 6 QBs under pressure, does not feel pressure, and does not escape pressure.
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His upside is higher and also fits what Daboll wants to do.
Its Maye (somehow) or Nabers.
This seems to be the prevailing opinion of the asshats.
I endorse this message.
Now he may be wrong, but I can virtually guarantee that is what he would say.
Then look at Nabers. This team wants a vertical passing game in the worst way. We have yet to see Daboll's offense outside of a few glimpses last year when TT was in there. Of all WR traits, they have singled out separation in the past and Nabers can give that like no other. Yes, by selecting Nabers they still need the QB. They aren't going to complete the rebuild in this draft but they can certainly move the needle. Nabers would give Daboll a massive weapon in the passing game when he takes over play calling, something they desperatly need, especially given the departure of Barkley who as the one player defenses felt they needed to pay attention to.
Not the least of which would be depending on Neal to protect his blindside.
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Some out there would probably take Penix at #6.
Myself included. I think his medicals checking out and him working out well was a huge gift to the Giants - they don't need to trade up to get a quality QB prospect.
I also think Penix at 6 makes more sense than taking a WR and then trading the 2025 first back up for Penix.
I wonder if the existing WR group is adequate for Penix? We saw the success Taylor had with Slayton. Penix is an excellent thrower and can push the ball down the field, I'd love to see what he can do with Hyatt. Fans often talk about what Jones can do with a better WR, but why is the talk not what Hyatt can do with a different QB? I keep thinking about the Raider game where Jones missed Hyatt twice.
Penix with Slayton, Hyatt & Robinson is interesting. It also allows you to go in a different direction in the 2nd round, I wouldn't mind spending that pick on the DL and really build an identity there.
I can see people thinking Penix is risky with his health, but it's a very interesting build considering the WRs in place already. It excites me more than Jones & Nabers. Why not try something different?
I really think Penix is going to slide into the end of rd1 or further if the Vikings trade up. Maybe the Seahawks take him, but I really don't think the Raiders or Broncos or anyone else would. It's worth the risk if JJM/Maye don't slide. These receivers are too elite to pass up, I'd be fine if we took one over JJM even though I really believe in JJM. They are that elite. Penix is the one player I predict to slide into the end of rd1/beginning of rd2 like Levis did last year. Odunze and Penix could be like a version of Burrow and Chase down the road.
Doubtful with only six picks in the draft.
I agree. However, drafting a WR to pair up with Jones will be more of the same imo.
Daniel Jones has never thrown higher than 6.8 Y/A in college or NFL. Why should any of us believe he's going to throw down the field now?
But, you are implying all these QBs are not worthy of the pick. It's a strong QB class. So many have this idea that there will be a clear moment when it's time to draft a QB, it doesn't work that way. Most QBs are polarizing and NYG likely will be picking anywhere between 5-12 in the draft next year.
Just looking at Sy for example: Penix and Nix both have higher grades than what he gave Mahomes and Allen. Teams land 10 year QBs because they actually draft one. You've got to draft a QB to hit on it, and it won't be a consensus pick. When do the Giants try? What blue chip prospect next year will be the reason to not draft QB again?
10 years? Very doubtful.
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
But, you are implying all these QBs are not worthy of the pick. It's a strong QB class. So many have this idea that there will be a clear moment when it's time to draft a QB, it doesn't work that way. Most QBs are polarizing and NYG likely will be picking anywhere between 5-12 in the draft next year.
Just looking at Sy for example: Penix and Nix both have higher grades than what he gave Mahomes and Allen. Teams land 10 year QBs because they actually draft one. You've got to draft a QB to hit on it, and it won't be a consensus pick. When do the Giants try? What blue chip prospect next year will be the reason to not draft QB again?
I'm not a fan of trading a king's ransom for Maye and I would take JJM at 6, but I've come to terms with the fact that they very well could take Odunze at 6 over JJM. I'd be fine with that and I would be praying Penix slid within reach to trade up from 47 into the backhalf of rd1 (pick 47 2025 2nd and 3rd could do that I think). Honestly, I don't know how the Vikings pulled off that trade for 23 with just a 2025 2nd, at least on the mock draft simulators that trade is never accepted.
Agreed that WR is sounding more and more likely, with a possible day 2,3 QB dart through at best. But don’t forget public consensus likely doesn’t reflect team boards, and there is no guarantee QB will be there in 2025 or that NYG will be in a position to draft one without mortgaging the future.
Not taking a QB this year and they may get fired
And if Penix (as well as the other top 6 QBs) are gone by pick 13, then plan c should be to take QB-7 (Rattler/Pratt/Milton) in RD-3.
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
But, you are implying all these QBs are not worthy of the pick. It's a strong QB class. So many have this idea that there will be a clear moment when it's time to draft a QB, it doesn't work that way. Most QBs are polarizing and NYG likely will be picking anywhere between 5-12 in the draft next year.
Just looking at Sy for example: Penix and Nix both have higher grades than what he gave Mahomes and Allen. Teams land 10 year QBs because they actually draft one. You've got to draft a QB to hit on it, and it won't be a consensus pick. When do the Giants try? What blue chip prospect next year will be the reason to not draft QB again?
No, I'm all for taking a QB if the grade justifies. I'm just saying Jones should not be motivation. If that's your reasoning, than that's desperation, which is how bad choices get made. If the grade warrants it --go get him. If not, then move the needle on one of our many other needs.
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
10 years? Very doubtful.
Then they aren't the guy. Because for a true franchise QB --that's what you're looking for. We shouldn't be looking for a caretaker.
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
Not taking a QB this year and they may get fired
Is that what you want? A weak GM drafting out of fear and self preservation? The goal is to win championships, and this (advocating desperation drafting) is not a convincing argument.
And halfway though the season when we're 2-7 and his stat line is disappointing, I'll look forward to the answer he gives the media.
And Mara will shit a kitten.
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In comment 16467150 UberAlias said:
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
Not taking a QB this year and they may get fired
Is that what you want? A weak GM drafting out of fear and self preservation? The goal is to win championships, and this (advocating desperation drafting) is not a convincing argument.
It's a matter of fact, look around the league. Another crappy year with Jones and at minimum Brian Daboll is gone, and it really wouldn't surprise me if Schoen went too.
Sell wins or sell hope
Do you think the Giants would be in a worse spot with Malik Willis on the roster than Evan Neal? I’d call that a wash so far. Two players who have not shown the ability to play NFL level football.
This is why treating first round picks as some sort of gold that must be constantly protected. A good half of the guys taken in the top 10 this year will be picks those teams regret in 3 years.
Why would they pass on a QB like Penix who everyone is discounting because of the injuries (which have not been an issue for 2 years) who is arguably the best deep passer in this class?
There is not a better match than the Raiders taking Penix in the first. If the Giants plan is to take a WR at #6 and then trade back up for a QB, they will need to get ahead of the Raiders at #13 to do it. Getting from #47 to #12 will obviously cost a lot.
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In comment 16467150 UberAlias said:
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
10 years? Very doubtful.
Then they aren't the guy. Because for a true franchise QB --that's what you're looking for. We shouldn't be looking for a caretaker.
I think predicting anyone for a ten year career is crazy. That type of career - ten years with the same team - is highly unusual. If the player earns it, great. But if you're seeking it as the GM (or in the Giants' case, the owner) - you might end up paying a total zero at QB $160M.
The guy that actually deserves to be a 10 year starter in one place is very, very rare.
ben, rivers, eli all made it 15+ years winning a ton of games and none were ever "elite".
brees was undersized and made it almost 20.
rodgers has generally been injury prone and he's still made it almost 20.
peyton and brady obviously.
russ is undersized and still been one of the most durable QBs of this era now on year 13.
mahomes is entering 8.
stafford has gotten abused in his career and has limited mobility - he won his SB in year 13 and is entering year 16.
burrow and herbert are entering year 6. would anyone pass on burrow even though he's ended 2/6 on IR?
those are the big hits in the last 2 decades. those are the picks everyone is praying to emulate when they select a QB in round 1.
the risk of picking QBs is higher than any other position but the reward is also higher, and one of the key aspects of that is shelf live. most other positions deteriorate quicker than QBs bc they are more athleticism dependent whereas QBs can still play well deep into their 30's. cousins just got a 4 year deal entering his a36 off a torn achilles.
The guy that actually deserves to be a 10 year starter in one place is very, very rare.
right because replacing him has proven to be so simple. with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, how many 1st round qbs were they on the clock for that worked out in the 10 drafts total? 2? herbert and allen? so probably 2/20 first rounders or something like that.
remember when your theory was disposable athletic qbs on rookie contracts and never paying any qb on a 2nd contract? adjusting from a 5 year plan to a 10 year plan is progress, one day you'll get all the way to what's obvious to the rest of civilization and that finding the next qb is a lot harder when you have to do it for real instead of pretend.
Why would they pass on a QB like Penix who everyone is discounting because of the injuries (which have not been an issue for 2 years) who is arguably the best deep passer in this class?
There is not a better match than the Raiders taking Penix in the first. If the Giants plan is to take a WR at #6 and then trade back up for a QB, they will need to get ahead of the Raiders at #13 to do it. Getting from #47 to #12 will obviously cost a lot.
Their new OC Nagy comes from a west coast offensive coaching tree. O'Connell fits that style. O'Connell last 4 games of 2023 produced 860 yards passing with 8 tds and 0 ints. He looked like it was clicking for him. Recent reports suggest they are zeroing in on OT or CB for pick 13, not going QB. This whole Penix to the Raiders at 13 thing isn't really what the Raider Nation is thinking at all.
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In comment 16467208 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16467150 UberAlias said:
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
Not taking a QB this year and they may get fired
Is that what you want? A weak GM drafting out of fear and self preservation? The goal is to win championships, and this (advocating desperation drafting) is not a convincing argument.
It's a matter of fact, look around the league. Another crappy year with Jones and at minimum Brian Daboll is gone, and it really wouldn't surprise me if Schoen went too.
Sell wins or sell hope
Except what you're selling is desperation, and I'm not buying.
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In comment 16467165 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16467150 UberAlias said:
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And eventually winning a superbowl. It’s not about 2024 and it’s not about Daniel Jones. Not drafting a QB ion round 1 is not an endorsement of Jones. I dint know why so may dint get the. We know they want to move on from Jones. Every action has supported that. But drafting a QB just to have someone not named Jones behind center is not the way to go. We need the right QB.
10 years? Very doubtful.
Then they aren't the guy. Because for a true franchise QB --that's what you're looking for. We shouldn't be looking for a caretaker.
I think predicting anyone for a ten year career is crazy. That type of career - ten years with the same team - is highly unusual. If the player earns it, great. But if you're seeking it as the GM (or in the Giants' case, the owner) - you might end up paying a total zero at QB $160M.
If you're drafting a QB inside the top 10, it had better
be a for guy you see yourself wishing to sign to a second contract. Because the goal is to win superbowls, and superbowl caliber QBs get extended. Everything else is just buying time.
He is very well liked by the Raider Nation. I really don't think they go Penix at 13, if anything that's AP's talk about QBs is with hope to have more QBs go ahead of them. O'Connell and Minshew is solid. If O'Connell doesn't keep emerging, then they can put in Minshew. The one team I wonder about is Seattle for Penix. I think they will see what they got in Howell while riding the Geno Smith wagon though.
Also, O'Connell basically didn't throw in the 2nd half of that Chargers game. They had 3 defensive touchdowns I believe it was and AP respectfully took his foot off the petal. The 250 yards and 4tds were all in the first half for O'Connell.
For all the very valid criticisms of McAdoo, Shurmur, Garrett, and Daboll -- they all have examples of getting the most out of QBs.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Lock, Tua, Herbert, Hurts, Fields, Pickett, and Levis would have put the same number of wins or more on the board that Manning and/or Jones have.
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The way it turned out the Giants (and Eli himself) would have been better served to trade him around 2013/2014. The 4/$84M contract he got in 2015 ended up being a big mistake. You'd say similar things about Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh and Rivers in San Diego.
The guy that actually deserves to be a 10 year starter in one place is very, very rare.
right because replacing him has proven to be so simple. with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, how many 1st round qbs were they on the clock for that worked out in the 10 drafts total? 2? herbert and allen? so probably 2/20 first rounders or something like that.
remember when your theory was disposable athletic qbs on rookie contracts and never paying any qb on a 2nd contract? adjusting from a 5 year plan to a 10 year plan is progress, one day you'll get all the way to what's obvious to the rest of civilization and that finding the next qb is a lot harder when you have to do it for real instead of pretend.
They haven't really tried to replace him. They tried to clone him.