While he emphasizes that evaluations are subjective, he views McCarthy as a developmental prospect. He doesn't see JJ as a 1st round player. He doesn't have special throwing ability, pocket movement isn't good, his arm isn't strong.
Penix is a pocket qb. His intermediate and deep throws are impressive. When the pocket is 'muddy', his efficiency drops.
Bo Nix was decisive and efficient in Oregon. He doesn't have a power arm. He needs to fit with a coach and team.
Rattler has a very strong arm, but not a natural sense of timing.
Joe Milton misses too many routine throws.
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McCarthy can certainly wind up and throw the ball fast. But he doesn't demonstrate arm strength like Allen, Herbert, Rodgers, Mahomes who can flick their wrist and throw lasers all over the field. They don't need to resort to this huge windup. Each can stand flat-footed or throw off their back foot and generate enormous pace. McCarthy hasn't demonstrated any of those skills in my eyes.
I think that's what Cosell likely means. That's real throwing strength when you can generate pace without step into the throw.
So that puts him with 4/5 on the NFL...selective analytics.
I'm just guessing what Cosell may have meant.
Personally, I don't think McCarthy has great arm talent. So, my bias is likely seeping in as well...
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McCarthy can certainly wind up and throw the ball fast. But he doesn't demonstrate arm strength like Allen, Herbert, Rodgers, Mahomes who can flick their wrist and throw lasers all over the field. They don't need to resort to this huge windup. Each can stand flat-footed or throw off their back foot and generate enormous pace. McCarthy hasn't demonstrated any of those skills in my eyes.
I think that's what Cosell likely means. That's real throwing strength when you can generate pace without step into the throw.
So that puts him with 4/5 on the NFL...selective analytics.
I'm just guessing what Cosell may have meant.
Personally, I don't think McCarthy has great arm talent. So, my bias is likely seeping in as well...
I will say that he does seem to exert max effort when he throws most of the time - it does look like he has one speed - all in, lots of legs and body.
Pennix and Nix will not be there at #47,everyone else seems like chasing a ghost.
If our OL is fixed,we will have another season like 2022.
Even with the QB room we currently possess.
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Who can’t read defenses (don’t we have that problem now???), is not a threat to run, can’t process game speed, and has zero touch on the ball…
Just shows they’re ok with extending the rebuild of the franchise another 2-3 years.
As opposed to drafting a developmental prospect who was a passenger on his own team that was carried to a championship by their running game and defense? That guy accelerates the rebuild?
That assessment of McCarthy is just as accurate as the nonsense you posted.
Actually my assessment of Milton is extremely accurate according everyone who has scouted him. I just think posters like you don’t want to be wrong when it comes to a player so you build up lesser players just to prove to be rights trust me - you’re far from the only one on this thread.
We get it. You already latched onto your guy and the thought of not getting him upsets you. I think the first time I posted about Milton was literally today.
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Milton is 24 with 6 years of college experience but yet he’s a much better option. And let’s not forget - Milton stunk in college too. But hey - he can throw 80 yards. Cool.
We get it. You already latched onto your guy and the thought of not getting him upsets you. I think the first time I posted about Milton was literally today.
Actually you have been bitching and moaning about McCarthy since college football was in season. Repetitive, nauseating nonsense without much to back it up.
And McCarthy isn’t my guy. I am all for taking any of Williams, Daniels, Maye, or McCarthy at 6 - and I have repeated it over time. You just like to make up shit because I don’t agree with your opinion.
I actually like QBs who are good. Not ones that have sucked for 6 years and hope to be good.
I would agree with the former, not the latter.
There’s a lot about “throwing the football” and its nuances, McCarthy has to learn.
His plus skills may be between his ears, and his poise.
He needs to get better at throwing short to intermediate (touch passes).
His lack of special arm talent shows up on his deep throws (under thrown a lot).
However, that can be compensated with timing and anticipation.
Joe Montana got the ball deep to Rice and Taylor frequently and NO ONE would accuse Joe of having a strong arm.
I’ll bet a good stake of money not one person here, one scout, or one executive said this about Daniels after 4 years of college either.
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JJM is not in the same zip code as the top three in terms of elite ceiling.
I’ll bet a good stake of money not one person here, one scout, or one executive said this about Daniels after 4 years of college either.
Who cares? Time will prove this out just like it did with your massive misread of DJ for half a decade. But will it take you five years this time before you finally understand what an "elite NFL ceiling" is and why that is all that matters when it comes to the draft? Who gives a flying rat's ass about a high floor unless it comes along with a much higher ceiling? Oh that's right. You do.
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In comment 16468162 The Mike said:
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JJM is not in the same zip code as the top three in terms of elite ceiling.
I’ll bet a good stake of money not one person here, one scout, or one executive said this about Daniels after 4 years of college either.
Who cares? Time will prove this out just like it did with your massive misread of DJ for half a decade. But will it take you five years this time before you finally understand what an "elite NFL ceiling" is and why that is all that matters when it comes to the draft? Who gives a flying rat's ass about a high floor unless it comes along with a much higher ceiling? Oh that's right. You do.
When I have I ever clamored for Jones. This will be quite a tale for you to prove. lol. Creating false narratives to sound smart isn’t your forte. Clown.
Williams can effortlessly make any throw from any point on the field, to any point on the field, with little effort. Maye is being compared to Herbert. McCarthy may have a few nice throws on tape but he can't hang with those two. He's inconsistent and lacks accuracy the deeper he throws.
I don’t think anyone said his arm is as special as Williams or Maye (his isn’t). But his arm is plenty good enough to succeed. I mean not comparing him to this QB - but no one is going to argue Burrow has an elite arm as some of the other QBs - and we would all take him in less than a second.
I actually like QBs who are good. Not ones that have sucked for 6 years and hope to be good.
I thought you liked Daniel Jones? It's possible I'm missing you for another dupe.
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I actually like QBs who are good. Not ones that have sucked for 6 years and hope to be good.
I thought you liked Daniel Jones? It's possible I'm missing you for another dupe.
Nope. Try again. You must be thinking of someone who ran from the board for a year and came back to gloat. But I might be thinking of some other poster who clamored to take Malik Willis number 5.
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Caleb Williams and maybe Drake Maye. If you think McCarthy is in their class as a thrower, it's best you understand now that he's not. He's not close to those guys in that regard..
I don’t think anyone said his arm is as special as Williams or Maye (his isn’t). But his arm is plenty good enough to succeed. I mean not comparing him to this QB - but no one is going to argue Burrow has an elite arm as some of the other QBs - and we would all take him in less than a second.
Yes. His arm might certainly be good enough to succeed. And he's still young. I'm not really sure if it's good enough.but there are some great throws to the middle of the field from McCarthy. And that's really important. Evan Daniels and Williams have not shown to be as effective hammering the middle as McCarthy has shown. They can probably do it, but it hasn't been in their gameplan and it's not on their tape. But in the NFL the middle is important.
But still I think it's a bit unclear with JJ. The arm strength component is a bit of a projection. And we had a lot of people in our fanbase who insisted that Jones had a great arm. Jonss never had a great arm. He couldn't bail himself out of tough spots by making special throws. And that's the question with McCarthy. Is he a top 8 thrower or a top 22 thrower. Because the difference matters. That's what I think Cosell is talking about.
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Who can’t read defenses (don’t we have that problem now???), is not a threat to run, can’t process game speed, and has zero touch on the ball…
Just shows they’re ok with extending the rebuild of the franchise another 2-3 years.
As opposed to drafting a developmental prospect who was a passenger on his own team that was carried to a championship by their running game and defense? That guy accelerates the rebuild?
That assessment of McCarthy is just as accurate as the nonsense you posted.
Your dislike of JJM has been stated a lot. The point brinv made was about others pushing Penix at 6 , a guy with an injury history, lack of short touch and played in an offense with 3 draftable WR's...
2. JD
3A. JJM
3B. MAYE
4. PENIX
That's how I see it. Ultimately I think our best potential combination would be Odunze pick 6 and trade into the back of rd1 for Penix if Schoen had confidence this was a legit possibility. It would be risky, but if they both reached their ceiling we could have our own version of Burrow-Chase. This would be much better than trading up for a QB and cost a lot less. Odunze, Penix and our 2025 1st round pick or Maye plus our 2025 2nd and 4th or so?
No short QBs.
HA HA I Being an alumnus of Cornell, I remember Gary Wood as a Giant. His best play was always having roughing the passer called against the other team, 15 yards and an automatic first down.
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I actually like QBs who are good. Not ones that have sucked for 6 years and hope to be good.
I thought you liked Daniel Jones? It's possible I'm missing you for another dupe.
He did. He is pretending that he just started following BBI last August and was completely agnostic on DJ all these years when in fact he was among DJ's chief apologists.
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In comment 16468156 JT039 said:
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I actually like QBs who are good. Not ones that have sucked for 6 years and hope to be good.
I thought you liked Daniel Jones? It's possible I'm missing you for another dupe.
He did. He is pretending that he just started following BBI last August and was completely agnostic on DJ all these years when in fact he was among DJ's chief apologists.
Show the proof. I was on every college football thread this whole year touting all the QBs who I wanted to replace Jones. Bw in dc can attest to this. So stop making up Bullshit stories you can’t back up.
Show the proof.
All these years? LMAO. I have been here since last year. You’re such a putz it’s not even funny.
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In comment 16468213 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16468156 JT039 said:
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I actually like QBs who are good. Not ones that have sucked for 6 years and hope to be good.
I thought you liked Daniel Jones? It's possible I'm missing you for another dupe.
He did. He is pretending that he just started following BBI last August and was completely agnostic on DJ all these years when in fact he was among DJ's chief apologists.
Show the proof. I was on every college football thread this whole year touting all the QBs who I wanted to replace Jones. Bw in dc can attest to this. So stop making up Bullshit stories you can’t back up.
Show the proof.
All these years? LMAO. I have been here since last year. You’re such a putz it’s not even funny.
Yet somehow you know that GoTerps took some time away from BBI last year to get away from the pervasive DJ stupidity... Gotcha slick.
Yet somehow you know that GoTerps took some time away from BBI last year to get away from the pervasive DJ stupidity... Gotcha slick.
Yes because it’s been posted many times by many posters and the thread has been posted as well.
You know what hasn’t been posted? Your bullshit claim I’m jones biggest supporter… one post buddy. Come on - shouldn’t be too hard.
Or you can just admit that like always - you’re just full of shit.
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In comment 16468345 JT039 said:
Yet somehow you know that GoTerps took some time away from BBI last year to get away from the pervasive DJ stupidity... Gotcha slick.
Yes because it’s been posted many times by many posters and the thread has been posted as well.
You know what hasn’t been posted? Your bullshit claim I’m jones biggest supporter… one post buddy. Come on - shouldn’t be too hard.
Or you can just admit that like always - you’re just full of shit.
Or I can just ignore you forever from this point forward.
Cause god knows you can’t back up your claim… hahah
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In comment 16468354 The Mike said:
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In comment 16468345 JT039 said:
Yet somehow you know that GoTerps took some time away from BBI last year to get away from the pervasive DJ stupidity... Gotcha slick.
Yes because it’s been posted many times by many posters and the thread has been posted as well.
You know what hasn’t been posted? Your bullshit claim I’m jones biggest supporter… one post buddy. Come on - shouldn’t be too hard.
Or you can just admit that like always - you’re just full of shit.
Or I can just ignore you forever from this point forward.
I can attest that JT039 was neither in the DJFC or the anti DJ group. He was open minded and neutral about it, looking at potential QB prospects while not being on one side of the battle or the other.
I don’t dislike McCarthy. I just don’t see anything really special there. No different than Sy or Cosell. It’s not some outlier position based on some personal animosity. If the Giants take him, I will do exactly what I did for Jones. Get over it and hope he succeeds. I don’t hold myself out to be a professional evaluator and I know I may be wrong.
What I am not getting is any sense that you think you may be wrong about any of your opinions. You post like you have some sort of track record none of us know about.
Those skills, plus Daboll, plus a year to simply absorb and study sounds to me like low risk with possibly a high reward.
Any mid round QB they take, I'd like that guy to get some playing time. My issue is Jones clogging up a roster spot. There's really no sense playing Jones, NYG seems done with him and it's a risk with the injury guarantee.
Let's say they draft Milton. Let Lock start week 1 and if he plays well, fine. If not, let Milton play and let's see what he has.
I can get behind that plan. I'd find it very frustrating to draft someone mid round who got no reps in the regular season while Daniel Jones is checking down and the Giants are 4-8.
I think if they draft a guy at the top of the first Lock plays for a few games and then they turn it over to the rookie. I think that plan has to change some if you are getting a guy in the middle rounds who may need more time to sit and learn.
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In comment 16468044 Eric from BBI said:
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odds are that Milton will be a bust, but his combination of size, arm talent, and overall athleticism is incredible. Rattler is supposed to be a dick and I have issues with short QBs.
Milton doesn’t play as athletic though. Neither does Penix. For as fast as they may run - they’re not running QBs.
And McCcartht doesn’t have a strong arm? That’s just flat out wrong.
McCarthy can certainly wind up and throw the ball fast. But he doesn't demonstrate arm strength like Allen, Herbert, Rodgers, Mahomes who can flick their wrist and throw lasers all over the field. They don't need to resort to this huge windup. Each can stand flat-footed or throw off their back foot and generate enormous pace. McCarthy hasn't demonstrated any of those skills in my eyes.
I think that's what Cosell likely means. That's real throwing strength when you can generate pace without step into the throw.
Yes, agree.
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In comment 16468213 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16468156 JT039 said:
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I actually like QBs who are good. Not ones that have sucked for 6 years and hope to be good.
I thought you liked Daniel Jones? It's possible I'm missing you for another dupe.
He did. He is pretending that he just started following BBI last August and was completely agnostic on DJ all these years when in fact he was among DJ's chief apologists.
Show the proof. I was on every college football thread this whole year touting all the QBs who I wanted to replace Jones. Bw in dc can attest to this. So stop making up Bullshit stories you can’t back up.
Show the proof.
All these years? LMAO. I have been here since last year. You’re such a putz it’s not even funny.
But what about the Kleenex-obsession dep?
I remember reading a lot of his posts on other threads posted by other members - what a complete moron he was.
I remember reading a lot of his posts on other threads posted by other members - what a complete moron he was.
Why, because he wasn’t a Kleenex-type?
I don’t dislike McCarthy. I just don’t see anything really special there. No different than Sy or Cosell. It’s not some outlier position based on some personal animosity. If the Giants take him, I will do exactly what I did for Jones. Get over it and hope he succeeds. I don’t hold myself out to be a professional evaluator and I know I may be wrong.
What I am not getting is any sense that you think you may be wrong about any of your opinions. You post like you have some sort of track record none of us know about.
I supported my opinion of Milton with what professional scouts have said about him.
Here was your response
So who was the aggressive one?
Because he's dep026. If not in name and person, then absolutely in spirit.
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It’s ok to have different opinions, my man. Why are you always so aggressive about your opinion?
Because he's dep026. If not in name and person, then absolutely in spirit.
Yeah that all makes sense. Dep was always an aggressive idiot. The site was much better when he left. All good things…
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It’s ok to have different opinions, my man. Why are you always so aggressive about your opinion?
Because he's dep026. If not in name and person, then absolutely in spirit.
I made fun of GoTerp- only a matter of time before your came running. lol. Try e Terps defender never fails.
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In comment 16468625 Mike from Ohio said:
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It’s ok to have different opinions, my man. Why are you always so aggressive about your opinion?
Because he's dep026. If not in name and person, then absolutely in spirit.
Yeah that all makes sense. Dep was always an aggressive idiot. The site was much better when he left. All good things…
You’re the one insulting posters because they disagree with you. I am sorry I hurt your feelings. This site it great with 6-7 posters like you who post nonsense and gibberish continuously and insult posters.
Why so aggressive?
A bunch of people toss this critique around and zero
AND I MEAN ABSOLUTELY ZERO ABILITY TO know this.
You heard someone else say it but the twats that repeat this OVER AND OVER have absolutely NO clue what the play was, what the read supposed be and how the player was coached during the week.
We can’t prove he can read defense any more than anyone on BBI can prove he cannot.
This is why it is your favorite critique.
THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF JONES CAN READ NFL DEFENSES SIGNED HIM TO A BIG FAT MULTIYEAR CONTRACT WHEN THEY HAD FUCKING ZERO OBLIGATION TO DO IT.
THEY COULD HAVE LET HIM WALK.
MIC DROP END OF FUCKING STORY.
What ever bullshit you say, go back and re read what I just wrote.
No, Thegratefulhead should not take a break. In fact, you know what this thread needs if for him to turn it up...
Sincerely, a poster who's also tired of everyone freaking repeating the same talking points over and over again with no regard for nuance or counterpoints
THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF JONES CAN READ NFL DEFENSES SIGNED HIM TO A BIG FAT MULTIYEAR CONTRACT WHEN THEY HAD FUCKING ZERO OBLIGATION TO DO IT.
THEY COULD HAVE LET HIM WALK.
MIC DROP END OF FUCKING STORY.
Uh, yeah. Either that or the owner made it clear he wanted Jones resigned. The only people that no for sure are Mara, Schoen & Daboll.
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In comment 16468625 Mike from Ohio said:
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It’s ok to have different opinions, my man. Why are you always so aggressive about your opinion?
Because he's dep026. If not in name and person, then absolutely in spirit.
I made fun of GoTerp- only a matter of time before your came running. lol. Try e Terps defender never fails.
Hey, for all you know I was paying you a compliment right?
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You might want to take a break from BBI dude.
No, Thegratefulhead should not take a break. In fact, you know what this thread needs if for him to turn it up...
Sincerely, a poster who's also tired of everyone freaking repeating the same talking points over and over again with no regard for nuance or counterpoints
There isn't much nuance in Daniel Jones' 2023 performance. The numbers are soberingly clear. He played like the 31st or 32nd starting QB in the league, along with Mac Jones. But Mac Jones who was drafted after Daniel J is out, and we're going on year 6 of this insanity.