Let me preface this by saying if the Giants can come away with the QB they want at #6 (or via trade up in the first round) then obviously this is off the table. But if moving up is not possible and there is not a QB they like at #6, take the best WR left and then address QB later.
I think Penix and Nix will be gone when #47 comes, and a trade up back into Round 1 will be too costly. Why not use #47 and #70 to address needs elsewhere such as CB, DT, OL and then get a developmental guy in the 4th where the impact of missing is not particularly severe.
Milton has a world of physical talent, but will need time to grow into the job. Give him a year working with Daboll, Kafka and Tierney who should be able to both (a) get the most out of him; and (b) realistically evaluate after the first year if he has the potential to be the guy. If you are not loving what you see, the 4th round investment is not preventing you from going QB anywhere in the 2025 draft.
Daboll is here largely for what he did with another physical talent who was seen as raw and needed development. I would love to give him another shot this year to see what he can make of Milton.
Tl:dr - This is what Sy suggested as a possibility at the end of his write up for Milton.
Milton is not that guy. 6 years of below average production in college. Can’t read a defense. Not a very good runner. No touch on the ball. Can’t process game speed. Already 24 years old.
Just would be in the long line of wasted picks in our history.
Eric from BBI's thread - ( New Window )
Weaknesses
Disturbing lack of placement and timing as a deep-ball passer.
Completed just 38.6 percent of his throws beyond 10 yards (per Pro Football Focus) in 2023.
Struggles with anticipatory throws, running receivers into collisions.
Telegraphs throws between the hashes, giving safeties an easy jump on the ball.
Desires to throw the ball through receivers rather than deliver with touch.
Inconsistent tying his feet to eyes and squaring to his targets.
Frequently forces moving targets to break stride to try to make the catch.
Other than throwing in shorts, what is there about this guys history that would lead ANYONE to think he’s got a shot?
6 years in college? Benched numerous times at major college programs. Minimal production when he did play.
This is ludicrous.
Other than throwing in shorts, what is there about this guys history that would lead ANYONE to think he’s got a shot?
6 years in college? Benched numerous times at major college programs. Minimal production when he did play.
This is ludicrous.
This should end the thread. This is 100% accurate.
Masters is always early April. Mostly 1st weekend. I am surprised it is this late
Other than throwing in shorts, what is there about this guys history that would lead ANYONE to think he’s got a shot?
6 years in college? Benched numerous times at major college programs. Minimal production when he did play.
This is ludicrous.
Why is it throwing away a pick? Probably not 20% of 4th round picks will become NFL starters. At that hit rate you are looking for a guy with the skills to succeed who needs teaching, not a guy with limited physical skills.
I have no issue with the front office trying and failing at the QB position because it needs to be addressed. What I don’t get is the attitude of folks like you who would just as soon not try because the thought of a 4th round pick not succeeding is too scary.
Other than throwing in shorts, what is there about this guys history that would lead ANYONE to think he’s got a shot?
6 years in college? Benched numerous times at major college programs. Minimal production when he did play.
This is ludicrous.
If the front office passes on QB at #6(not unfeasible if their top targets are gone by then) then filling in a hole at QB is utilizing a draft pick. Nobody in the QB room is under contract past this year except for "one more neck injury away" Jones. Even if Milton becomes nothing more than a backup in the league, he'll be a cheap backup for 4 years.
To your other point, Sy(who does this for a living) thinks he's got a shot. And he studies and scouts prospects a helluva lot more than you, me, or the overwhelming majority of armchair GMs on BBI.
Last point I want to make is NO ONE THINKS MILTON IS ELITE. No one is talking him up like he deserves to be drafted at #6. He's a flawed QB prospect like a lot of guys who don't become anything(Davis Webb, Kyle Lauletta, Rhett Bomar, Jesse Palmer, etc). Most mid round guys don't get a second contract. The odds are stacked overwhelmingly against him. That being said, it's about taking a chance on tools and HOPING that coaching/development could make him serviceable. Just like any raw prospect.
Here's a better question: What mid/late round QB would you advocate drafting this year?
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Guys complain we can’t “fill all the holes”, yet you want to advocate for throwing away a pick? JFC.
Other than throwing in shorts, what is there about this guys history that would lead ANYONE to think he’s got a shot?
6 years in college? Benched numerous times at major college programs. Minimal production when he did play.
This is ludicrous.
This should end the thread. This is 100% accurate.
Yeah but it doesn’t. These are all armchai GM opinions, not facts. Do you not understand the difference and why the first does not end the discussion?
We need a QB now. Not developing one who may be ready when’s he’s like 27 years old.
Any other position taken in 5th round = surefire starter
We need a QB now. Not developing one who may be ready when’s he’s like 27 years old.
So when Schoen says they are probably adding a QB, you think he means first round or next year? You can’t pick a QB in any round but round 1?
Outside of Williams I don’t think there is a QB in this draft that is not a developmental prospect. I guess we can wait until 2025 and hope for the best!
Any other position taken in 5th round = surefire starter
No one said that on this thread. Another swing and a miss.
2013: Ryan Nassib
2014: Andre Williams
2015: None
2016: BJ Goodson
2017: Wayne Gallman
2018: Kyle Lauletta
2019: Julian Love
2020: Darnay Holmes
2021: Elerson Smith
2022: Daniel Bellinger
2023: None
Aside from Love and maybe Bellinger, a greater list of JAGs may never have been seen in the western world. So the fourth round is precisely where you would want to take some risk on a guy like Milton.
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That we are not in position to take a chance on a “developmental” pick - especially one who hasn’t shown anything close to being a good college QB, yet alone an NFL QB.
We need a QB now. Not developing one who may be ready when’s he’s like 27 years old.
So when Schoen says they are probably adding a QB, you think he means first round or next year? You can’t pick a QB in any round but round 1?
Outside of Williams I don’t think there is a QB in this draft that is not a developmental prospect. I guess we can wait until 2025 and hope for the best!
Yeah there are some QBs in this draft that were actually good in college. Milton was not. Kind of a point you can’t seem to grasp.
Any other position taken in 5th round = surefire starter
Some posters do not understand what the draft is at all. First round QBs are all busts, OL taken in any round will be at least solid starters. Guys who played for my favorite college team are super awesome.
2013: Ryan Nassib
2014: Andre Williams
2015: None
2016: BJ Goodson
2017: Wayne Gallman
2018: Kyle Lauletta
2019: Julian Love
2020: Darnay Holmes
2021: Elerson Smith
2022: Daniel Bellinger
2023: None
Aside from Love and maybe Bellinger, a greater list of JAGs may never have been seen in the western world. So the fourth round is precisely where you would want to take some risk on a guy like Milton.
Shows the ineptness of our GMs. Should we list all the players drafted in rounds 4-5 who are pro bowlers and all pros drafted by other teams?
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QB taken in 5th round = wasted developmental pick
Any other position taken in 5th round = surefire starter
Some posters do not understand what the draft is at all. First round QBs are all busts, OL taken in any round will be at least solid starters. Guys who played for my favorite college team are super awesome.
And guys who played for your teams rival suck - right?
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2012: Adrien Robinson
2013: Ryan Nassib
2014: Andre Williams
2015: None
2016: BJ Goodson
2017: Wayne Gallman
2018: Kyle Lauletta
2019: Julian Love
2020: Darnay Holmes
2021: Elerson Smith
2022: Daniel Bellinger
2023: None
Aside from Love and maybe Bellinger, a greater list of JAGs may never have been seen in the western world. So the fourth round is precisely where you would want to take some risk on a guy like Milton.
Shows the ineptness of our GMs. Should we list all the players drafted in rounds 4-5 who are pro bowlers and all pros drafted by other teams?
I'd bet as a percentage it's in the single digits league wide.
He played in a simplified offense in college and was never asked to do much. He didn’t learn a lot. Is that because he can’t learn a lot, or he was not asked to do it? That is for Schoen and Daboll to decide. I have no idea because I have never met the guy and never talked to any coach who has worked with him.
A lot of you seem very sure that he is some sort of finished product that has hit his ceiling in college. That is certainly not what I took from reading Sy’s write up.
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In comment 16468186 JT039 said:
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That we are not in position to take a chance on a “developmental” pick - especially one who hasn’t shown anything close to being a good college QB, yet alone an NFL QB.
We need a QB now. Not developing one who may be ready when’s he’s like 27 years old.
So when Schoen says they are probably adding a QB, you think he means first round or next year? You can’t pick a QB in any round but round 1?
Outside of Williams I don’t think there is a QB in this draft that is not a developmental prospect. I guess we can wait until 2025 and hope for the best!
Yeah there are some QBs in this draft that were actually good in college. Milton was not. Kind of a point you can’t seem to grasp.
Name the mid/late round QB prospects that you'd advocate us drafting.
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In comment 16468190 Go Terps said:
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QB taken in 5th round = wasted developmental pick
Any other position taken in 5th round = surefire starter
Some posters do not understand what the draft is at all. First round QBs are all busts, OL taken in any round will be at least solid starters. Guys who played for my favorite college team are super awesome.
And guys who played for your teams rival suck - right?
I went to Arizona and my team’s rival is Arizona State. I used to live in Ohio, and I hated the Buckeyes and rooted for Michigan to beat them every year. And Daniels played at ASU and I would love for the Giants to draft him.
So…no.
Name the mid/late round QB prospects that you'd advocate us drafting.
None. I want one at 6 or sooner. It’s time to stop fucking around with the position. Choosing a developmental guy and rolling with Locke and a rookie just means more meaningless Giants football for at least two years.
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In comment 16468193 The Mike said:
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2012: Adrien Robinson
2013: Ryan Nassib
2014: Andre Williams
2015: None
2016: BJ Goodson
2017: Wayne Gallman
2018: Kyle Lauletta
2019: Julian Love
2020: Darnay Holmes
2021: Elerson Smith
2022: Daniel Bellinger
2023: None
Aside from Love and maybe Bellinger, a greater list of JAGs may never have been seen in the western world. So the fourth round is precisely where you would want to take some risk on a guy like Milton.
Shows the ineptness of our GMs. Should we list all the players drafted in rounds 4-5 who are pro bowlers and all pros drafted by other teams?
I'd bet as a percentage it's in the single digits league wide.
The only number I could find anywhere after a cursory search was 16%, which sounds about right. I said less than 20% in my OP as I have no idea if that is right, but I would guess if it is higher than that, it is not by much.
Most guys you draft in the 4th round are not ever going to develop into productive NFL starters. Some do, but the overwhelming majority don’t.
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In comment 16468194 JT039 said:
Name the mid/late round QB prospects that you'd advocate us drafting.
None. I want one at 6 or sooner. It’s time to stop fucking around with the position. Choosing a developmental guy and rolling with Locke and a rookie just means more meaningless Giants football for at least two years.
Great idea. Make another team trade us their pick or overdraft a guy with plenty of warts at #6. Solid strategy.
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In comment 16468209 RomanWH said:
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In comment 16468194 JT039 said:
Name the mid/late round QB prospects that you'd advocate us drafting.
None. I want one at 6 or sooner. It’s time to stop fucking around with the position. Choosing a developmental guy and rolling with Locke and a rookie just means more meaningless Giants football for at least two years.
Great idea. Make another team trade us their pick or overdraft a guy with plenty of warts at #6. Solid strategy.
Better than putting a bet on a guy who has never been good.
Lock and Milton is the giants future!!!
Weaknesses
Disturbing lack of placement and timing as a deep-ball passer.
Completed just 38.6 percent of his throws beyond 10 yards (per Pro Football Focus) in 2023.
Struggles with anticipatory throws, running receivers into collisions.
Telegraphs throws between the hashes, giving safeties an easy jump on the ball.
Desires to throw the ball through receivers rather than deliver with touch.
Inconsistent tying his feet to eyes and squaring to his targets.
Frequently forces moving targets to break stride to try to make the catch.
Scoring report on Milton that needs to be re-read. This is what we need!
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In comment 16468194 JT039 said:
Name the mid/late round QB prospects that you'd advocate us drafting.
None. I want one at 6 or sooner. It’s time to stop fucking around with the position. Choosing a developmental guy and rolling with Locke and a rookie just means more meaningless Giants football for at least two years.
Hey, I'm all about not wanting to waste years watching meaningless football. I'm sure everyone on this site would be in favor of that. But if your stance is I only want the top mocked guys, fine. Enjoy your position. But just know that the front office might only really like 1 or 2 of the top guys. And there's a strong chance they won't have the opportunity to trade up to get one. At which point if their grades don't justify the selection of the next tier of QBs at #6, it's highly likely they will pass. Doing otherwise is how we got stuck w/ Jones in the first place.
The talk of Milton, Rattler, Pratt, etc. in the later rounds is in case plan A(trading) & B(hoping their guy falls to #6) don't go their way. Gotta have a backup plan and I don't mean Drew Lock and Tommy Devito.
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In comment 16468194 JT039 said:
Name the mid/late round QB prospects that you'd advocate us drafting.
None. I want one at 6 or sooner. It’s time to stop fucking around with the position. Choosing a developmental guy and rolling with Locke and a rookie just means more meaningless Giants football for at least two years.
You may want one at six or sooner, but is that the QB that JS and BD want going to be available? Do you want to take a quarterback in the first round just for the sake of taking a quarterback in the first round? That’s how we ended up with Daniel Jones with inept scouting and decision making.
Any other position taken in 5th round = surefire starter
Wasn’t Tom Brady a 6th round pick? I wouldn’t call him a wasted pick
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In comment 16468209 RomanWH said:
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In comment 16468194 JT039 said:
Name the mid/late round QB prospects that you'd advocate us drafting.
None. I want one at 6 or sooner. It’s time to stop fucking around with the position. Choosing a developmental guy and rolling with Locke and a rookie just means more meaningless Giants football for at least two years.
You may want one at six or sooner, but is that the QB that JS and BD want going to be available? Do you want to take a quarterback in the first round just for the sake of taking a quarterback in the first round? That’s how we ended up with Daniel Jones with inept scouting and decision making.
All 4 of these QBs projected to go in top half of the first round are pretty highly regarded, and had a lot of success in college.
You have to take a chance sooner or later on a guy. Hoping to hit a home run in the fourth round is most likely just a wasted pick.
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QB taken in 5th round = wasted developmental pick
Any other position taken in 5th round = surefire starter
Wasn’t Tom Brady a 6th round pick? I wouldn’t call him a wasted pick
Go Terps said this sarcastically. It was implied that taking Milton in the 5th would be a waste of a pick but taking anyone else with the same pick would "fill a hole" insinuating that they would be a surefire starter.
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In comment 16468211 JT039 said:
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In comment 16468209 RomanWH said:
Quote:
In comment 16468194 JT039 said:
Name the mid/late round QB prospects that you'd advocate us drafting.
None. I want one at 6 or sooner. It’s time to stop fucking around with the position. Choosing a developmental guy and rolling with Locke and a rookie just means more meaningless Giants football for at least two years.
You may want one at six or sooner, but is that the QB that JS and BD want going to be available? Do you want to take a quarterback in the first round just for the sake of taking a quarterback in the first round? That’s how we ended up with Daniel Jones with inept scouting and decision making.
All 4 of these QBs projected to go in top half of the first round are pretty highly regarded, and had a lot of success in college.
You have to take a chance sooner or later on a guy. Hoping to hit a home run in the fourth round is most likely just a wasted pick.
You're hoping to hit a homerun no matter what the round. There's no guarantee of success regardless of how successful they were in college. Guys bust all the time. Rosen, Darnold, Lance, Fields, etc.
Also, guys like JJM weren't asked to do much. A lot of his draft value comes from a projection based scouting report. How well do you think his skills will translate because he was rarely asked to throw more than 30 times/game in college. Sometimes that might work depending on the situation they get drafted into. Anthony Richardson put up mediocre stats in his final year at Florida. His draft value was also projection based.
It's easier to stomach missing on HR swing & miss in the middle rounds than taking a guy with a top 10 pick and trying year after year to make it work(sound familiar?).
Milton is probably worse than Devito.
I'm a physical attributes guy but Milton has been struggling to throw accurate passes for a long time. He's like a basketball player who can't shoot.
Pratt has a nice combination of passer and runner to develop into an NFL dual threat.
Definitely? No. Because no one knows what Milton is definitely going to be in the NFL yet. Same could be asked of any of the top projected guys. Are CW, Daniels, Maye, JJM, Nix, Penix definitely better than Jones/Lock right now? Nobody can make that assertion because as we have discussed before, guys bust all the time. Dwayne Haskins, Zach Wilson, JaMarcus Russell, etc. The list goes on and on.