Last year the Giants used a 2nd round pick to take the first center in the draft-John Michael Schmitz.
Are the Giants happy that they have found their long term solution at a critical position? As a fan, I hope so, but some observations over the past few months do have me wondering.
On January 13th, the Giants hired Carmen Bricillo as their new OL coach.
On January 24th, the Giants announced that they had signed Center Jimmy Morrissey to a 2024 contract. Morrissey never played for Bricillo, but he certainly saw him at the 2021 Combine, and it was reported that the Patriots had coaches at the Univ of Pitt Pro Day back in 2021. And Morrissey has started 4 NFL games at Center during his brief time in the League.
Following the initial hours of Free Agency, the Giants signed Runyan and Eluemunor. In the weeks that followed they also signed vets Stinnie, Nelson to one year deals, yet signed a veteran true Center, Austin Schlottmann to a two year deal.
If you review Dane Brugler's The Beast, he lists the 16 top centers in this years draft. Certainly the Giants don't ever announce anything about coaches attending Pro Days, yet we know from writers covering those college teams, and sometimes even photos from the Pro Day what NFL coaches were there. Of Brugler's 16 top centers, we have seen that Carmen Bricillo was at the Pro Days and worked out at least 4 of them (Sundell, Limmer, Barton, and Monk) that we know for certain. (Monk's Dad is former Giant LB Quincy)
It's certainly possible Bricillo was at other Pro Days and worked out even more of the top Centers.
The Giants writer John Schmeelk was at the East-West Shrine Game week and provided write-ups. Interesting that he wrote that the OL that stood out to him during the week was Penn State Center Hunter Nourzad (another Brugler top 16 Center) that will be drafted this month.
As a fan, I hope JMS is our long term Center. But just following what has happened in the months leading up to the training camps 90 man roster, I must say its something I thought worth a thread.
He was fine before the injury and was noticeably bad afterward. I will chalk it up to coach Johnson who seems to have effed up everyone not named Thomas.
IOL is still a need regardless.
Any FA will not prevent BPA from getting drafted...
Depth and hedging all their bets is a good idea
So far, none of them have worked out.
That said, it's still early on all of them, especially since all four have had significant injury issues.
So far, none of them have worked out.
That said, it's still early on all of them, especially since all four have had significant injury issues.
Outside of Andrew Thomas we haven’t seen a pro bowl caliber lineman drafted since the Accorsi days. Almost 20 years ago. Scary.
If JMS winds up not cutting it, it's another ugly red flag for their OL scouting program.
Maybe with Ezeudu and McKenzie, but let's be honest here... we were ALL doing backflips when the Giants drafted Neal and Schmitz. Both were considered the top at their position in the entire draft.
"No way we get Schmitz in round two. He won't last that long!"
So far, none of them have worked out.
That said, it's still early on all of them, especially since all four have had significant injury issues.
This is the one area though that I am not sure Schoen is the issue. In fact, two main factors have been at play- very poor injury results- look at what happened with Lemieux (a guy rarely injured in college), EE, MM they all go down with limiting and season ending injuries. We lose a backup Center in camp and another retires. We have had the WORST luck injury wise at the OLINE spot for a few years.
Second part- the coaching of the Oline is BAD.. Wanna know how bad- read the NFL draft guide put out by Lindy's Sports.. Read the write for Yale Ol Kiran Amegadjei and the pro comparison they have- Matt Peart.. Here is the exact quote:
Player Comp- " Matt Peart, NY Giants- Peart and Amegadjie share exceptional size, length and speed and agility, but suffered from low-level strength profiles that could not hold up against high-level competition. Peart was unfortuneatly given to offensive coaching staffs that had NO CLUE how to develop him...."
That is pretty damning of what we have had here recently for our Oline development.
“That fact that we drafted a rookie, and a rookie played every single snap,” Dawkins said. “Don’t turn your head to that. Because that’s crazy. Like, I’m sorry. That’s cra-zy. He played every single snap at the highest. He is a legend. You don’t do that as a rookie.”
The 6-foot-5, 347-pound Torrence played 1,163 regular season snaps as a rookie, second among NFL guards, according to Pro Football Focus. He was penalized six times, which ranked in the top 10 at his position, and allowed three sacks, tied for 30th. Drafted out of Florida with the 59th pick, Torrence did not give up a sack in college, which also included three years at Louisiana.
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If JMS winds up not cutting it, it's another ugly red flag for their OL scouting program.
Scholarships have been an issue for some time now. When your team has so many needs, it seems like it's too painful for the GM to address the same position in back to back years. It seems like every year in this offensive line drought we've penciled in at least one starter based on hopes and prayers instead of objective analysis.
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Yeah, that's an odd comment. BBI'ers were praying he would last to our pick.
2. Then we draft what the guides tell us was the BEST OC coming out in the draft. A sure thing….a guy who can be your QB on the line for many years.
Results to date- they both stink. They both look like they don’t know anything about playing and winning at the line. They both look like old ladies trying to cover up their blemishes.
How could this be? Certainly we can’t blame Joe Schoen for their incompetence when all these so called draft experts tell us they are great players coming out. How could they go from great to a bum?
Hope the new coach unlocks them, or else.
On Brugler's reporting, the Giants have now had visits with Guards rated 2, 3, and 7 (Morgan, Beebe, and Mahogony) on his board.
Hopefully the Center stuff is just solid Due Diligence with a new coaching staff
The problem with JMS is he’s a pure Center. The reason why he was drafted where he was was not because of his size, strength and athletic ability, it was his intangibles of playing Center. Leadership, smarts, etc… He would be much worse at guard. It’s either Center or nothing for him. Players like Avila and Torrence have the ability to play both C & G. Neal hopefully can play T or G.
If JMS can’t play C, it’s a waste of a pick and a much bigger problem. And like others have pointed out we really need to take a look at how we scout and coach the OL.
Four new OL guys is practically a clean sweep of last year’s band of bozos.
Four new OL guys is practically a clean sweep of last year’s band of bozos.
So you’re more excited to watch an undrafted 6 year journeyman IOL with 14 career starts and just 3 starts last year over watching the development over the #1 Center who was highly regarded in last years draft to the point that it will be his job and JMS will be forgotten??… that makes sense.
Glowinski, Brendeson, Sean Harlow, J.C. Hassenauer, Shane Lemieux, Matt Peart, Tyre Phillips, Justin Pugh were either cut, injured or free agents so no matter what they needed to sign and or draft at least as many to fill out the roster for training camp regardless.
Freudian slip, Freudian wish sigh
widmer, I lamented at the time, he was sure fire to me fwiw
Its amazing how after 10 years of drafting OL only 1 has lived up to their status and we keep drafting and redrafting and never hit on a late round guy. It's not sustainable to keep replacing OL with 1st round picks. Even this year there is a slight possibility we take an OL in the 1st round.
Develop a guy. The only players that I think developed the last few years are Pinnock and McFadden. No one else has exceeded expectations or even matched expectations. Thats sad.
What made me worry about JMS mid-season, before the injury I think, was how bulked up he already was at signing and he still had a lot of difficulty anchoring and neutralizing the bull rush. He is a rookie and it's premature to make a judgment long term, but there are new eyes and that's good.
So far, none of them have worked out.
That said, it's still early on all of them, especially since all four have had significant injury issues.
Good way to become a insurance salesman if Joe keeps it up.
So far, none of them have worked out.
That said, it's still early on all of them, especially since all four have had significant injury issues.
They are stationary bike all stars
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This is the man I will be watching. I expect the job will be his and JMS will be a forgotten man…
Four new OL guys is practically a clean sweep of last year’s band of bozos.
So you’re more excited to watch an undrafted 6 year journeyman IOL with 14 career starts and just 3 starts last year over watching the development over the #1 Center who was highly regarded in last years draft to the point that it will be his job and JMS will be forgotten??… that makes sense.
Glowinski, Brendeson, Sean Harlow, J.C. Hassenauer, Shane Lemieux, Matt Peart, Tyre Phillips, Justin Pugh were either cut, injured or free agents so no matter what they needed to sign and or draft at least as many to fill out the roster for training camp regardless.
I don’t care what he was when he came into the league…I care about what he is today. In his 5 or so years he has acquired experience and he is versatile. He played 249 plays last year with one penalty and one sack allowed. And then there is this….
With Garrett Bradbury injured, Schlottmann started in four games for the Vikings amassing an overall grade of 62.6 and an impressive pass blocking grade of 72.3.
All JMS has in potential. He stunk last year, Schlott didn’t. Schlott is a bigger boy, has some experience and showed when given the chance he could perform admirably. That is fact.
JMS fact to date- he stinks!
I also do not think much if any draft capital will be used on C or RT.
Lets all hope a new start,and heath is all that ails them.
JMS is our guy at Center. 2nd year, right?
JMS fact to date- he stinks!
Hard to argue. PFF rated JMS the worst C in the NFL - #36.
Here's how bad his pass blocking was. The top-rated pass blocking C graded out at 78.3.
JMS? An abysmal 26.9. He was very unimpressive...to say the least.
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JMS fact to date- he stinks!
Hard to argue. PFF rated JMS the worst C in the NFL - #36.
Here's how bad his pass blocking was. The top-rated pass blocking C graded out at 78.3.
JMS? An abysmal 26.9. He was very unimpressive...to say the least.
The OL has sucked for going on a decade. Different GMs, different coaches...do we have the same OL scouts? Like, I can't get over how bad this OL has been across multiple GM/HC regimes. Is there a deeper cause?
JMS was decent in the run game.
But I remember that he couldn't deal with speed and stunts in the protection game for most of the season. I think he and Neal were battling for the "OL-most-likely-to-be-on-the-ground-Award".
It really is embarrassing how bad Schoen has been addressing the OL.
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I thought he played well before getting hurt. I wondered the second half if he was still hurt.
JMS was decent in the run game.
But I remember that he couldn't deal with speed and stunts in the protection game for most of the season. I think he and Neal were battling for the "OL-most-likely-to-be-on-the-ground-Award".
It really is embarrassing how bad Schoen has been addressing the OL.
All of his OL picks have been hurt….but don’t let that way in the way of your whining narrative
All of his OL picks have been hurt….but don’t let that way in the way of your whining narrative
So, is your contention that Schoen's OL picks have been good when healthy?
Reminder: Schoen didn't draft Thomas. Gettleman did.
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All of his OL picks have been hurt….but don’t let that way in the way of your whining narrative
So, is your contention that Schoen's OL picks have been good when healthy?
Reminder: Schoen didn't draft Thomas. Gettleman did.
You mean like McKeithan who got hurr in his first camp
Ezudu who got hurt very early in his first season…then played out of position
Or JMS who was hurt circiver hwlf if his first rookie year
Neal has not been good….but injuries have hurt his development
Just par for the course…always looking to take a dig and complain
As you are such a know it all
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In comment 16470236 Mbavaro said:
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All of his OL picks have been hurt….but don’t let that way in the way of your whining narrative
So, is your contention that Schoen's OL picks have been good when healthy?
Reminder: Schoen didn't draft Thomas. Gettleman did.
You mean like McKeithan who got hurr in his first camp
Ezudu who got hurt very early in his first season…then played out of position
Or JMS who was hurt circiver hwlf if his first rookie year
Neal has not been good….but injuries have hurt his development
Just par for the course…always looking to take a dig and complain
As you are such a know it all
JMS was hurt for over half of his rookie year
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JMS fact to date- he stinks!
Hard to argue. PFF rated JMS the worst C in the NFL - #36.
Here's how bad his pass blocking was. The top-rated pass blocking C graded out at 78.3.
JMS? An abysmal 26.9. He was very unimpressive...to say the least.
Yep…hard to argue those numbers. I know people want to believe these guys who are so highly touted can’t all be wastes and I want to believe that too…..but so far, that is what it is. JMS and Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan have all been huge letdowns. I hope it’s the coaches or the QB or the turf….
It would really be nice to see first, second and even third round OL draft choices actually be decent. I’m now afraid to draft these guys….hopefully picking them un in free agency gets us better results.
So, is your contention that Schoen's OL picks have been good when healthy?
Reminder: Schoen didn't draft Thomas. Gettleman did.
You mean like McKeithan who got hurr in his first camp
Ezudu who got hurt very early in his first season…then played out of position
Or JMS who was hurt circiver hwlf if his first rookie year
Neal has not been good….but injuries have hurt his development
Just par for the course…always looking to take a dig and complain
As you are such a know it all
I know the injuries and how players were moved around.
Yet, you didn't answer the question. Were these OLs good when they were healthy?
If you think I'm a chronic complainer and my view is jaded, I suggest you go through Sy's game long reviews.
Sy's game by game reviews 2023 - ( New Window )
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So, is your contention that Schoen's OL picks have been good when healthy?
Reminder: Schoen didn't draft Thomas. Gettleman did.
You mean like McKeithan who got hurr in his first camp
Ezudu who got hurt very early in his first season…then played out of position
Or JMS who was hurt circiver hwlf if his first rookie year
Neal has not been good….but injuries have hurt his development
Just par for the course…always looking to take a dig and complain
As you are such a know it all
I know the injuries and how players were moved around.
Yet, you didn't answer the question. Were these OLs good when they were healthy?
If you think I'm a chronic complainer and my view is jaded, I suggest you go through Sy's game long reviews. Sy's game by game reviews 2023 - ( New Window )
They were not healthy for very long now were they?
Combine that with horrible coaching….their development has been hampered to say the least
Quote:
In comment 16470248 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
So, is your contention that Schoen's OL picks have been good when healthy?
Reminder: Schoen didn't draft Thomas. Gettleman did.
You mean like McKeithan who got hurr in his first camp
Ezudu who got hurt very early in his first season…then played out of position
Or JMS who was hurt circiver hwlf if his first rookie year
Neal has not been good….but injuries have hurt his development
Just par for the course…always looking to take a dig and complain
As you are such a know it all
I know the injuries and how players were moved around.
Yet, you didn't answer the question. Were these OLs good when they were healthy?
If you think I'm a chronic complainer and my view is jaded, I suggest you go through Sy's game long reviews. Sy's game by game reviews 2023 - ( New Window )
They were not healthy for very long now were they?
Combine that with horrible coaching….their development has been hampered to say the least
I hope you are right…I hope they are all healthy and I hope our new OL coaches know how to coach up players…we shall see….until then, I’m a skeptic…a hopeful skeptic I may add.
They were not healthy for very long now were they?
Combine that with horrible coaching….their development has been hampered to say the least
In conclusion, you're basically giving Schoen a pass for the OL's performance due to injuries, line shuffling, and coaching.
A mulligan.
I suggest you at least browse Sy's review because his assessment of this OL reads more like we have bad players than players besieged by injuries.