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Nabers and his recent interviews. Does it concern you?

BLUATHRT : 4/15/2024 2:44 pm
Maybe it’s PTSD from our last SEC first round receiver, but I am concerned. When Toney was drafted and I listened to his first couple interviews and presser, I immediately wondered if he’d have the mental makeup to be successful, especially in NY. I’ve heard Nabers is a good kid and hard worker, but honestly if my job was on the line and it was between him and Odunze ( with everything that’s been said about his character and work-ethic , etc) there’d probably be a lean towards the character of Odunze.

Anyone else have similar hesitation?
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RE: RE: You're just speaking in broad generalities  
Four Aces : 4/15/2024 4:24 pm : link
In comment 16469844 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
In comment 16469842 j_rud said:


Quote:


If you don't like someone, if he rubs you the wrong way, just say that. There's nothing in the pro day presser, and likely not elsewhere, where he exhibits poor "intelligence and personality traits".


You don't like him which, whatever, you do you. But don't pull a reason out of your ass and then tap dance when called on it.



I already stated my reasons. How are you blindly neglecting the history of this organization with guys that have not been smart humans, and come in a fall apart here????


You actually haven’t. You’ve made incomplete statements and haven’t given us any reasons for your statements. He is not smart?! Why do you EXACTLY think that?
In the words  
Mike from SI : 4/15/2024 4:30 pm : link
of Joe Pesci, "No, YOU said it." Tell us why you think he's not smart. Tell us why you think he doesn't have the requisite mental makeup. Explain. Elaborate.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/15/2024 4:34 pm : link
He isn’t smart? What is that based on?
Robbie- I bowled a lot in my youth  
Dave on the UWS : 4/15/2024 4:36 pm : link
Nabers has that "bowler" mentality. He comes across to me as a kid, essentially, I think he's a good kid.
MY concern is putting a kid in the bright lights of NYC.
We need a leader in the WR room. He's not ready for that at this point, but his talent is off the charts.
He fits what Daboll wants to do perfectly.
You put him on one side of the field, Hyatt on the other and Wan'dale in the slot. The safeties HAVE to play deep, which will make it a ton easier to run the ball.
RE: Robbie- I bowled a lot in my youth  
robbieballs2003 : 4/15/2024 4:39 pm : link
In comment 16469893 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
Nabers has that "bowler" mentality. He comes across to me as a kid, essentially, I think he's a good kid.
MY concern is putting a kid in the bright lights of NYC.
We need a leader in the WR room. He's not ready for that at this point, but his talent is off the charts.
He fits what Daboll wants to do perfectly.
You put him on one side of the field, Hyatt on the other and Wan'dale in the slot. The safeties HAVE to play deep, which will make it a ton easier to run the ball.


Not sure how you can say he isn't a leader. When his request to transfer was denied in HS and he lost his senior year, he still showed up tp practice every day and helped out his teammates. That is leadership to me.
 
christian : 4/15/2024 4:52 pm : link
If you're going to assign concern to something as specific as an interview, it's a little difficult to take the point seriously unless you provide the specific interview and portions that concern you. No?
“ I came in telling them I’m WR1”. The Jones comments.  
BLUATHRT : 4/15/2024 5:17 pm : link
The comments after his 40 on his pro day. The stuff with the gun. Not completing a sentence with any form of grammar. It’s a picture of a prospect that if im close in value, im taking the kid that has zero questions, ran the same, is 3 inches taller and by all accounts outworks everyone and has a drive unlike anyone else. Thats my point. You cannot disregard history. You cannot disregard the current state of the league. Thats my take and my questions on him. If I’m wrong, so be it.
RE: We're not psychologists  
Scuzzlebutt : 4/15/2024 5:20 pm : link
In comment 16469707 Darwinian said:
Quote:
And neither is John Mara.

If we proactively look for reasons to eliminate great talent becaise of perceived *character issues*, we will wind up with a team of Daniel Joneses. Nice guys, vanilla, boring, milquetoast, and likely bad at football.

It is hard enough to have a chance to select game changing talent. Players who are truly franchise-altering. If you also insist they are without any perceived blemishes, you'll always fail.


I don’t know anything about Nabers, but the the kind of excuse-making I heard about everything OBJ did until he eventually wore out his welcome.
If they were clearly talent seperated  
Sky King : 4/15/2024 5:24 pm : link
Go with Nabers and hope for the best. But since they're not, Rome all day.
RE: “ I came in telling them I’m WR1”. The Jones comments.  
christian : 4/15/2024 5:27 pm : link
In comment 16469940 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
The comments after his 40 on his pro day. The stuff with the gun. Not completing a sentence with any form of grammar. It’s a picture of a prospect that if im close in value, im taking the kid that has zero questions, ran the same, is 3 inches taller and by all accounts outworks everyone and has a drive unlike anyone else. Thats my point. You cannot disregard history. You cannot disregard the current state of the league. Thats my take and my questions on him. If I’m wrong, so be it.


If grammar gets you in a twist, you might want to brush up on apostrophes and capital letters my friend.
As far as the QB comment he never said anything about Jones  
Blue21 : 4/15/2024 5:30 pm : link
The person asking the question said the Giants didn't know who the QB would be and he just said the Giants would figure out and going to NY wouldn't be a bad idea. And I kinda prefer Odunze but he said nothing bad at all about the NY QBs.
Give me  
JonC : 4/15/2024 5:36 pm : link
Rome.
RE: Give me  
Thegratefulhead : 4/15/2024 5:43 pm : link
In comment 16469968 JonC said:
Quote:
Rome.
Yes. You could give Odunze a second contract and believe he would earn it.
RE: …  
j_rud : 4/15/2024 5:46 pm : link
In comment 16469913 christian said:
Quote:
If you're going to assign concern to something as specific as an interview, it's a little difficult to take the point seriously unless you provide the specific interview and portions that concern you. No?


Even better, watch the interview HE mentions specifically and the kid comes across great. There's *nothing* that can be misconstrued or misinterpreted. I link it for him (hes too tired. Very labor intensive, this linking of interweb pages), and he refuses to respond with specifics.

The most obvious takeaways to me are that he genuinely likes the Giants staff ("I felt I could really be myself around those guys") and that he hates being doubted, like most competitive young athletes.

But back to blueathrt, who's taking a beating at this point, and honestly who's someone I've never had a disagreement with here before. There is a larger issue at hand here, and you do sorta get to the heart of it when you mention the Giants "getting burned" by Toney. And this is the point where this can get very complicated.

Yes BLUE, you are correct in stating the Giants need to avoid headcases and guys who are bad for the culture. 100%. That is a reasonable perspective. But we need to be really careful when we're looking at these guys and making our little judgments. It shouldn't be careless. If we say someone has character concerns and highlight his recent interviews, come with specifics. And don't backpedal when challenged. It's important.

Why? Because while I believe there's no malice in your opinion, the history of the draft is awash with stereotypes (coded words like "articulate", associating traits with ethnicities), and we (big picture We, not you or I) have a history of being picky about who gets the benefit of the doubt. So it matters.

Bottom line is no one wants another Toney. I promise you Schoen and Daboll can say that more vehemently than anyone here. Their draft decision is quite literally tied to where their children go to school. But if you watch his interviews he's clearly not a guy like Toney.
RE: Give me  
j_rud : 4/15/2024 5:48 pm : link
In comment 16469968 JonC said:
Quote:
Rome.


Want a better QB situation but he's probably my favorite player in the draft at this point.
RE: another guy  
Blueworm : 4/15/2024 5:49 pm : link
In comment 16469739 bc4life said:
Quote:
weighs in link - ( New Window )


An actual technical point.

I wonder why that guy knows?
RE: RE: Give me  
JonC : 4/15/2024 5:54 pm : link
In comment 16469978 j_rud said:
Quote:
In comment 16469968 JonC said:


Quote:


Rome.



Want a better QB situation but he's probably my favorite player in the draft at this point.


If no QB to be had, I'd pick Rome. No second tier QB eg JJ, Penix, etc.
 
christian : 4/15/2024 5:54 pm : link
If the concern is with his judgement, based on the gun incident, that makes sense.

If the concern is because in an interview he said he wanted to be number one, that's a different world than the one I live in.
it's the diva talk and the gun  
JonC : 4/15/2024 5:57 pm : link
I'm very risk-adverse to the dipshit stuff to begin with, tolerance is admittedly very low.
RE: it's the diva talk and the gun  
j_rud : 4/15/2024 6:03 pm : link
In comment 16469987 JonC said:
Quote:
I'm very risk-adverse to the dipshit stuff to begin with, tolerance is admittedly very low.


The gun is a completely different thing that he should be grilled about, for sure. But diva talk can be subjective, and is obviously different from complete buffoonery. I personally think I have a low tolerance for it myself but I haven't seen anything from Nabers that made me roll my eyes.
RE: RE: RE: Give me  
j_rud : 4/15/2024 6:04 pm : link
In comment 16469983 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16469978 j_rud said:


Quote:


In comment 16469968 JonC said:


Quote:


Rome.



Want a better QB situation but he's probably my favorite player in the draft at this point.



If no QB to be had, I'd pick Rome. No second tier QB eg JJ, Penix, etc.


Any chance/interest in landing a second tier guy later, basically what they should've done with Josh Allen and Jones?
 
christian : 4/15/2024 6:08 pm : link
I don't even know what diva means at this point. I do remember the ants in the pants everyone had about Thibs and he seems pretty cool.
RE: This one really bothers me.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 4/15/2024 6:56 pm : link
In comment 16469728 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Stay away. Link - ( New Window )


LOL!
Gettleman and Judge  
SirLoinOfBeef : 4/15/2024 6:59 pm : link
picked Toney out of desperation.

Not the same situation this draft.

Boy were they idiots...

RE: RE: Give me  
Darwinian : 4/15/2024 7:00 pm : link
In comment 16469972 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 16469968 JonC said:


Quote:


Rome.

Yes. You could give Odunze a second contract and believe he would earn it.


Unless Odunze turns into Mike Williams in the NFL, a possible comp for him, and Na ers turns into Tyreek Hill. Then Schoen gets fired.
RE: RE: RE: I don’t have the energy to go find them and post  
SirLoinOfBeef : 4/15/2024 7:01 pm : link
In comment 16469814 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
In comment 16469791 j_rud said:


Quote:


In comment 16469759 BLUATHRT said:


Quote:


Them for your satisfaction, robbie. Go watch a few if you haven’t. For me, especially where we are as a team, if two players are closely rated i would take the one without a single red flag. It seems like people love to put their flag in the sand without being able to substantiate why this could possibly be a concern taking a top pick. Go no watch some of his interviews recently. Go watch his presser after the pro day and tell me you see a humble, hard worker. Or tell me if you see a kid that struggles articulating points, made comments that were far from humble, including the DJ comment ( which just wasn’t smart regardless of it being true). It all remains to be seen what any of these players become, but considering the history of this franchise and WRs in this league of late, I think it worth considering as a dynamic.




Having the energy to make the argument but not support it seems endemic around draft time. But I have the time today so I watched the pro day presser, which I've linked below. Right out the gate I know we had a problem when Nabers admitted he'd been up since 5am because it was going to be a special day. And it's only downhill from there. Lowlights include discussing the chip on his shoulder, complimenting his teammates, appearing to genuinely like Brian Daboll, and talking about trying to keep his teammates engaged and pumped.

Just put down the shovel buddy. You sound silly. NSFW: bold young athlete speaking confidently - ( New Window )



Bold young athlete…

Been a lot of those that have destroyed their franchises in recent memory, buddy. But we forget all that trying to make a point versus having a discussion of personality or intelligence traits that might not translate. This is why this board get insufferable. Can’t have a discussion without attacking.


I don't need a humble WR1 on my team.

I want a dog who wants the ball in big moments.

And if his QB sucks, well, let someone know.

RE: Gettleman and Judge  
BleedBlue46 : 4/15/2024 7:03 pm : link
In comment 16470044 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
picked Toney out of desperation.

Not the same situation this draft.

Boy were they idiots...


Supposedly Gettleman wanted Parsons, then after trade down he wanted Darrisaw. Judge pounded the table for Toney though.
If I were a top WR coming into the draft..  
DefenseWins : 4/15/2024 7:23 pm : link
I would not want to be drafted by the Giants and it has nothing to do with Jones.

Look back at the franchise history. How far back do you need to go to find a hall of fame WR? This is not the place where a top receiver is going to be happy with his opportunity.

RE: RE: “ I came in telling them I’m WR1”. The Jones comments.  
BLUATHRT : 4/15/2024 7:31 pm : link
In comment 16469955 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16469940 BLUATHRT said:


Quote:


The comments after his 40 on his pro day. The stuff with the gun. Not completing a sentence with any form of grammar. It’s a picture of a prospect that if im close in value, im taking the kid that has zero questions, ran the same, is 3 inches taller and by all accounts outworks everyone and has a drive unlike anyone else. Thats my point. You cannot disregard history. You cannot disregard the current state of the league. Thats my take and my questions on him. If I’m wrong, so be it.



If grammar gets you in a twist, you might want to brush up on apostrophes and capital letters my friend.


I’m not writing a book here, you fucking moron.
RE: …  
BLUATHRT : 4/15/2024 7:47 pm : link
In comment 16469985 christian said:
Quote:
If the concern is with his judgement, based on the gun incident, that makes sense.

If the concern is because in an interview he said he wanted to be number one, that's a different world than the one I live in.


A stupid ass in a pile of assholes who see things in isolation. Don’t look at the big picture of the prospect for your franchise. It’s cool. It’s fun to be a part of the hit mob versus doing some thinking. When Nabers comes back as a problem, Robbie, j_rud and Christian, you can all eat shit for your expertise. If he’s a model citizen and great player, I’ll eat it all day, tough guys. Can’t have a discussion on real topics on this page. It has to be shit, internet tough guys that destroy discussion. The three of you have consistently been garbage contributors, with little value to this page. Add some content of value and shut TFU.
 
christian : 4/15/2024 7:51 pm : link
If the legacy of WRs is a big factor in motivating draft picks to play well, I'm sure Burress, Toomer, Smith, Manningham, Nicks and Cruz would be happy to show them some gold.
RE: …  
BLUATHRT : 4/15/2024 7:53 pm : link
In comment 16470093 christian said:
Quote:
If the legacy of WRs is a big factor in motivating draft picks to play well, I'm sure Burress, Toomer, Smith, Manningham, Nicks and Cruz would be happy to show them some gold.


Their legacy is stupidity? I’m confused?
 
christian : 4/15/2024 8:04 pm : link
You asked if others were concerned about a problem for which you offered little to no evidence to support. And now it seems you're upset others don't share your concern.

I think you'd benefit from an afternoon out with Malik Nabers. Maybe he can take you bowling. It might be relaxing.
RE: RE: …  
christian : 4/15/2024 8:09 pm : link
In comment 16470095 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
In comment 16470093 christian said:


Quote:


If the legacy of WRs is a big factor in motivating draft picks to play well, I'm sure Burress, Toomer, Smith, Manningham, Nicks and Cruz would be happy to show them some gold.



Their legacy is stupidity? I’m confused?


Sorry, the sequence of responses are out of order. That was in response to Defense's comment about draftees not wanting to come to NY.
RE: “ I came in telling them I’m WR1”. The Jones comments.  
robbieballs2003 : 4/15/2024 8:19 pm : link
In comment 16469940 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
The comments after his 40 on his pro day. The stuff with the gun. Not completing a sentence with any form of grammar. It’s a picture of a prospect that if im close in value, im taking the kid that has zero questions, ran the same, is 3 inches taller and by all accounts outworks everyone and has a drive unlike anyone else. Thats my point. You cannot disregard history. You cannot disregard the current state of the league. Thats my take and my questions on him. If I’m wrong, so be it.


Odunze also said be is the number 1 WR in the draft and I am sure MHJ feels the same. Hell, I am sure Brian Thomas feels the same too.
RE: RE: …  
j_rud : 4/15/2024 8:22 pm : link
In comment 16470088 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
In comment 16469985 christian said:


Quote:


If the concern is with his judgement, based on the gun incident, that makes sense.

If the concern is because in an interview he said he wanted to be number one, that's a different world than the one I live in.



A stupid ass in a pile of assholes who see things in isolation. Don’t look at the big picture of the prospect for your franchise. It’s cool. It’s fun to be a part of the hit mob versus doing some thinking. When Nabers comes back as a problem, Robbie, j_rud and Christian, you can all eat shit for your expertise. If he’s a model citizen and great player, I’ll eat it all day, tough guys. Can’t have a discussion on real topics on this page. It has to be shit, internet tough guys that destroy discussion. The three of you have consistently been garbage contributors, with little value to this page. Add some content of value and shut TFU.


Didn't you get upset about "personal attacks" earlier when none were actually made? Unless you consider a request to support your argument an attack.

I ask you to pause and consider the irony of a man losing his shit and complaining about people "destroying conversation" when we are, in fact, engaging you in conversation and asking you to support your position. Because all you have at this point is emotional reasoning. Unfortunately something isn't true just because you feel that way. I'm really sorry, an adult should've explained that at some point when you were younger.

Rather than support your position, you're having a temper tantrum. Which again, someone should've got in your ear about awhile back.
RE: RE: …  
robbieballs2003 : 4/15/2024 8:23 pm : link
In comment 16470088 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
In comment 16469985 christian said:


Quote:


If the concern is with his judgement, based on the gun incident, that makes sense.

If the concern is because in an interview he said he wanted to be number one, that's a different world than the one I live in.



A stupid ass in a pile of assholes who see things in isolation. Don’t look at the big picture of the prospect for your franchise. It’s cool. It’s fun to be a part of the hit mob versus doing some thinking. When Nabers comes back as a problem, Robbie, j_rud and Christian, you can all eat shit for your expertise. If he’s a model citizen and great player, I’ll eat it all day, tough guys. Can’t have a discussion on real topics on this page. It has to be shit, internet tough guys that destroy discussion. The three of you have consistently been garbage contributors, with little value to this page. Add some content of value and shut TFU.


Haha. You did this to yourself, not us. I never said anything about who I want at 6. All I am asking is for facts to back up statements. Nabers' name is getting dragged through the mud on all speculation but hey I will eat shit. Got it. It's been a pleasure conversing with you.
Rome Odunze also feels he is the best WR in this class.  
robbieballs2003 : 4/15/2024 8:34 pm : link
They all should feel that way.
Link - ( New Window )
I defend Nabers on the Giants QB non statement.  
Blue21 : 4/15/2024 8:41 pm : link
The gun issue sorry. No Thanks Always preferred Rome and that seals it. 19 years old and carrying on Bourbon St. Seriously. And he does come across with a little knucklehead in him. Didn't like the Toney pick and although I think he's nothing like Toney I'd pass if Rome is there. I ve heard Rome's interviews. This kid comes across as a great kid with plenty of talent. Future face of a franchise.
Honestly guy  
SleepyOwl : 4/15/2024 10:38 pm : link
Gives OBJ vibes. The interview I saw reminded me of OBJ bad mouthing Eli with his sidekick lil Wayne. Anyhow I’m good on diva receivers; especially the ones coming out of LSU.
RE: My final point, without a facade.  
4xchamps : 4/15/2024 11:44 pm : link
In comment 16469828 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
He does not seem intelligent. That concerns me on multiple levels, especially in this market. The scrutiny is intense. The temptations are many. The opportunities to put your foot in your mouth and have it run are more than most NFL markets. If you listen to the things he says and don’t put the history of what has happened with guys ( even who have performed) like OBJ, how can you not be concerned? To me, that’s selective blindness.


I absolutely hate this bullshit, no substance attack on a person's character. "He doesn't seem intelligent" What the Fu(k does that mean? If he spoke more "white" would he seem "more intelligent?" Exactly what are you saying?

RE: Honestly guy  
BleedBlue46 : 4/15/2024 11:48 pm : link
In comment 16470256 SleepyOwl said:
Quote:
Gives OBJ vibes. The interview I saw reminded me of OBJ bad mouthing Eli with his sidekick lil Wayne. Anyhow I’m good on diva receivers; especially the ones coming out of LSU.


The way I remember obj is dropping perfect passes when Eli played amazing and the receivers choked (especially odell) in the 2016 playoff game.
RE: Nabers can talk  
jhibb : 4/16/2024 12:25 am : link
In comment 16469778 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
With the other humans, Toney couldn't.


Seriously. I don't get the "intelligence" comparison being made to Toney by the OP.

Watching that press conference linked in this thread, Nabers sounds like a Rhodes Scholar compared to Toney.
RE: RE: RE: “ I came in telling them I’m WR1”. The Jones comments.  
jhibb : 4/16/2024 12:29 am : link
In comment 16470082 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
In comment 16469955 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 16469940 BLUATHRT said:


Quote:


The comments after his 40 on his pro day. The stuff with the gun. Not completing a sentence with any form of grammar. It’s a picture of a prospect that if im close in value, im taking the kid that has zero questions, ran the same, is 3 inches taller and by all accounts outworks everyone and has a drive unlike anyone else. Thats my point. You cannot disregard history. You cannot disregard the current state of the league. Thats my take and my questions on him. If I’m wrong, so be it.



If grammar gets you in a twist, you might want to brush up on apostrophes and capital letters my friend.



I’m not writing a book here, you fucking moron.


And no offense, but Nabers wasn't trying out for the debate team during his football interviews.
He's no dummy. The comments about Jones  
jhibb : 4/16/2024 12:31 am : link
were obviously just part of a ploy to get his number.

[/s] (I think, lol)
Jrud  
armstead98 : 4/16/2024 12:49 am : link
With some seriously impressive work on this thread. Well handled.
....  
ryanmkeane : 4/16/2024 12:27 pm : link
There aren't any glaring "don't draft him" flags but again I ask, if at this age he's acting a certain way, how is that going to get better with money and stature in the NFL? If anything, it will only get worse.

To me he is likely in the Stefon Diggs type of camp. Not really a problem but can get out of hand if he's not getting the ball, outspoken about the offense, etc.

I mean, he literally said "they are going to want a QB to get me the ball" when asked about it. On the surface, that's not really a horrible answer but it speaks to the "me" thing that he might have.

I'm just not sure I'd want to make a huge bet on him at 6 overall. Feels like Odunze is the better choice.
...  
christian : 4/16/2024 12:37 pm : link
In comment 16470710 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
There aren't any glaring "don't draft him" flags but again I ask, if at this age he's acting a certain way, how is that going to get better with money and stature in the NFL? If anything, it will only get worse.


Curious, is this like one of those not a red flag or a little bit of a red flag moments?

I'm glad you've been blessed with the power of clairvoyance in addition to supernatural character assessment.
Ryan sees all - ( New Window )
RE: Jrud  
BleedBlue46 : 4/16/2024 12:43 pm : link
In comment 16470336 armstead98 said:
Quote:
With some seriously impressive work on this thread. Well handled.


I feel like if we don't get a QB via pick 6 then we should trade down and maybe multiple times.

We need CB, RB, DL, S, OL, TE, WR, QB and more. Spending pick 6 on a WR without a definitive answer at QB when we have so many glaring holes would be idiotic honestly. And I love Odunze as a prospect, it just wouldn't make sense though. Get the QB via pick 6 or trade down, amass picks and build the whole team.

You could argue WR isn't even in the top 3 of our needs. It just doesn't make sense. We could get Max Melton, Troy Fautanu, Ruke, and Benson vs just Odunze and Melton.
RE: ....  
Four Aces : 4/16/2024 1:08 pm : link
In comment 16470710 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
There aren't any glaring "don't draft him" flags but again I ask, if at this age he's acting a certain way, how is that going to get better with money and stature in the NFL? If anything, it will only get worse.

To me he is likely in the Stefon Diggs type of camp. Not really a problem but can get out of hand if he's not getting the ball, outspoken about the offense, etc.

I mean, he literally said "they are going to want a QB to get me the ball" when asked about it. On the surface, that's not really a horrible answer but it speaks to the "me" thing that he might have.

I'm just not sure I'd want to make a huge bet on him at 6 overall. Feels like Odunze is the better choice.


He’s a young man. Just you and I were once. Young men generally mature and get wiser and make smarter decisions. This idea that he can’t do that or most likely won’t with more money and stature is just speculating. And complete nonsense. The majority of NFL players including rookies do just fine with making money and with the stature/fame that comes with it.
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