Peter Schrager has many connections throughout the NFL and especially in the New York market. He is well-informed and knowledgeable.
This is the first mock draft revealed in his podcast.
1. Chi Caleb William
2. Wash Jayden Daniels
3. NE Drake Maye
4. NYG JJ Mccarthy (Trade with Ari #4 pick for #6, #70, and 2025 2nd round pick)
5. LAC Marvin Harrison jr
6. Ari Rome Odunze
What you guys think?
The Cardinals have so many picks this year, I expect them to be looking for picks next year.
I still think it takes the 2025 number one, but I'd draw the line at that.
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And I don't think any are worth trading up for. It's all hype.
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
I can get behind this.
I endorse this thought process. I would like a QB and I see no reason we can't stay at 6 and see who of Maye, McCarthy + Penix and Nix are there.
My personal options are staying at 6 and weighing all available QB and WR options there.
Entertaining trade down offers for additional picks.
People are so fed up with Jones there is this QB or die temperature right now, but Schoen has to keep a more level head than that. Mostly all of us want a new a QB and some hope, we just can't be stupid about it.
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But again I have to ask, how are Maye and McCarthy at trade up cost better than Penix (or Nix) at 6 with no trade up cost? I just don't see it.
This is what I'm thinking. Sit tight, I think one will be available.
That only works if you view all the QBs as similar - unlikely to me. If JS has conviction about one of them and can make a reasonable move to get him, make the move and eliminate the risk of someone else trading in front of you.
There are maybe six or seven good prospects to choose from and none really stand out. So many on this site have the top 4 QB's in Canton already. Maye and McCarthy are getting better by the day based on nothing they did on the field . Keep our picks and take Penix at six . His arm talent alone is enough for me .
None out of 6 or 7 QB prospects stand out? Unlikely, more likely that teams have them graded in some kind of tiers and would prefer 1 or maybe a couple if they dropped to them. Doesn't mean that JS isn't willing to see where things stand after the first 2 picks, but I can't believe he doesn't have a preference.
Why?
Drake Maye is?
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Why?
Drake Maye is?
Yes. Maye is a far superior pro prospect than Penix.
Jones was a walk-on at Duke. Was a one-read QB.
Only Gettleman, Snyder and maybe Elway were interested in him. That's not good FO company.
JJM has a much better pedigree.
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Why?
Drake Maye is?
It's a tool box game. You know that.
And Maye has more plus tools than Penix. So, if you project off that, which I do (plus production, etc), Maye is the better prospect right now.
That's not to say that he'll ultimately be better than Penix, but there is more there to develop.
I’d be all for this trade. I’m not entirely convinced that JJM is the guy, but if Schoen and Daboll are, I’m on board.
Jones was a walk-on at Duke. Was a one-read QB.
Only Gettleman, Snyder and maybe Elway were interested in him. That's not good FO company.
JJM has a much better pedigree.
I think most agree that JJM is a better prospect than Jones, it’s just that some aren’t convinced he’s a difference maker.
Jones was a walk-on at Duke. Was a one-read QB.
Only Gettleman, Snyder and maybe Elway were interested in him. That's not good FO company.
JJM has a much better pedigree.
So I have been critical of JJM, but he is absolutely a better prospect than Jones. The question is whether or not he is a franchise QB or a guy you are constantly going to be hoping to take that next step and never does. To me, he is more of a projection than most of the other top tier QBs in this class.
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as a much better QB prospect than Jones.
Jones was a walk-on at Duke. Was a one-read QB.
Only Gettleman, Snyder and maybe Elway were interested in him. That's not good FO company.
JJM has a much better pedigree.
So I have been critical of JJM, but he is absolutely a better prospect than Jones. The question is whether or not he is a franchise QB or a guy you are constantly going to be hoping to take that next step and never does. To me, he is more of a projection than most of the other top tier QBs in this class.
I would sat Maye is a bigger project.
Trading up for JJM though would be an epic fail of galactic proportions. This has to be a ploy by Schrager, maybe to get the Vikings to trade up? They can't be that stupid, but who knows, maybe they can...
Is faster than Jones
Can make all the throws unlike Jones
Reads defenses better than Jones
They are not alike at all and any comparison made between them is just lazy or just not understanding the position.
McCarthy is still QB 4 in this draft behind Williams, Daniels, and Maye - but he is a much much better prospect than Jones ever was.
I am simply saying his rightful draft position is late first, early second round, just like DJ should have been. Time will tell. I am definitely in the Greg Cosell camp on this one. And I definitely don't think he should be in play as a top ten pick. Would much rather have Penix - even at six.
Trading up for JJM though would be an epic fail of galactic proportions. This has to be a ploy by Schrager, maybe to get the Vikings to trade up? They can't be that stupid, but who knows, maybe they can...
JJM is a much better prospect than DJ. He's also much more talented. JJM is more accurate, has a bigger arm, better processor, better off platform, better navigating the pocket than DJ was coming out of college.
I cant think of a single thing other that they are white mobile QBs that makes them comparable.
I agree that if we draft McCarthy at #6 or > it's another over-draft like Jones.
But McCarthy is a better prospect than Jones. Better arm, better off-script, better pedigree, better athlete.
So, if we go that route, at least Daboll will have a more talented prospect to develop and mold.
Trading up for JJM though would be an epic fail of galactic proportions. This has to be a ploy by Schrager, maybe to get the Vikings to trade up? They can't be that stupid, but who knows, maybe they can...
This is really just your opinion stated as fact with lots of hyperbole mixed in.
Tennessee at pick 7 is worth (1500) and pick 38 (520), and they need a tackle, so unless they want to trade up to keep someone like maybe the Jets from jumping them, it's not likely worth it to them. But it would make sense for the Giants. It makes more sense for Tennessee to trade down with the Jets, who will be looking to grab a top WR for Rogers. So, this is unlikely.
At pick #8, Atlanta is likely to stay pat and take a top edge.
At pick #9, Chicago is looking for an OL to protect their new QB or one of the top WRs. Assuming Ariz and LAC go for WRs, they would be interested in trading with the Giants for last of the top 3 WRs or a top OL. Unfortunately, they only have picks 9, 75, and 122 in this year's draft. That's 1615 pts, and not enough to lose out on a top WR, unless they throw in next year's draft slot. So, this is probably unlikely.
At pick #10, the Jets would be willing to go for one of the top WRs, but they only have 1660 pts in this year's draft, positions 10, 72, 111, 132, 185, 256, and 257. They would need to throw in something from next year's draft, too. Unlikely, but possible.
At pick #11 (1270), Minnesota can offer up pick #23 (760) for a total of 2030 pts and secure QB4. That prevents other QB needy teams from jumping them. It's overkill for Minny, but it's what the Giants would want to keep from losing out on their top 3 WRs. The Giants could still go TE, OL, CB, DL, or QB.
At pick 12, Denver would love to get a QB, but they only have 1584 in this year's draft. They don't have the ammunition, unless they include next year's as well. So they are unlikely.
At pick 13, the Raiders are a viable trade down partner if the Giants are willing to drop that far. 13(1150), 44(460), 77(205), and 112(70).
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Only because of his championship pedigree. Talent wise, he is essentially the same guy. A middling talent with a limited ceiling. Selecting him at six would be essentially repeating the same mistake as 2019, eerily on the same day (April 25) and at the same draft position (6), but made worse simply because it will have revealed that the organization had learned nothing from the 2019 mistake. Which, after listening to yesterday's laughable DJ press conference, may very well be the case.
I agree that if we draft McCarthy at #6 or > it's another over-draft like Jones.
But McCarthy is a better prospect than Jones. Better arm, better off-script, better pedigree, better athlete.
So, if we go that route, at least Daboll will have a more talented prospect to develop and mold.
Fair enough. But who isn't a better prospect than DJ knowing what we now know? The idea though that we are even contemplating "over drafting" a quarterback again could not be more nauseating...
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Only because of his championship pedigree. Talent wise, he is essentially the same guy. A middling talent with a limited ceiling. Selecting him at six would be essentially repeating the same mistake as 2019, eerily on the same day (April 25) and at the same draft position (6), but made worse simply because it will have revealed that the organization had learned nothing from the 2019 mistake. Which, after listening to yesterday's laughable DJ press conference, may very well be the case.
Trading up for JJM though would be an epic fail of galactic proportions. This has to be a ploy by Schrager, maybe to get the Vikings to trade up? They can't be that stupid, but who knows, maybe they can...
JJM is a much better prospect than DJ. He's also much more talented. JJM is more accurate, has a bigger arm, better processor, better off platform, better navigating the pocket than DJ was coming out of college.
100%
Count me out on drafting JJ at six - and utterly disgusted if they even contemplate trading up for him. I have no problem trading back up into the first round for him if he is still available after we either take Maye/Daniels or one of the WRs at six. But let's be clear - JJ is a definitive reach at six.
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And there are plenty of people who like JJM (Sy included).
Count me out on drafting JJ at six - and utterly disgusted if they even contemplate trading up for him. I have no problem trading back up into the first round for him if he is still available after we either take Maye/Daniels or one of the WRs at six. But let's be clear - JJ is a definitive reach at six.
To you he is, but many respected pros don't think so. He's Randy Mueller's 6th ranked overall prospect. He's higher rated for Sy than several previous #1 picks. Next year he would very likely be the #1 pick.
I get that is your opinion, but you speak so authoratively about something that many actual pros don't agree, it's hilarious.
Fair enough. But who isn't a better prospect than DJ knowing what we now know? The idea though that we are even contemplating "over drafting" a quarterback again could not be more nauseating...
Like I suggested, I wouldn't feel great about McCarthy at #6, either. I just want a more talented player at QB than Jones.
The more interesting angle for me is trusting Schoen to make the next QB decision. After the way he managed the Jones contract/outcome, that should make everyone concerned to some level.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
He obviously has a strong arm but it is pretty clear that his “arm talent” is not nearly as high as Maye or Williams.
I'm not big on Maye, but I still see his potential and understand the proponents of his that believe in him. I see both sides. Maye has plenty of pros that don't like him much at all (Mueller, Chris Simms, etc.). The same posters that speak like authoritative figures about JJM love Maye yet you don't see anyone battling against them acting like their perspectives are definitive expert facts.
I think a lot of these anti-JJM guys just can't get the idea out of their heads that JJM isn't similar to DJ at all other than them both being white. And it really triggers them.
I greatly look forward to seeing how all these QBs pan out, hopefully we get a good one because if Schoen doesn't take a swing I guarantee he will miss out on a franchise QB or two.
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
Ok, so basically you disagreeing with every scouting report. Penix is viewed as 2nd round prospect by the majority of draft experts.
Why is my opinion on him somehow different?
Not sure anybody outside of that Jack Stroud poster thinks this.
JJM is a better prospect but still looks likes a mistake at #6 overall. He’s a dog with different fleas as Gekko would say.
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In comment 16470394 ryanmkeane said:
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Why?
Drake Maye is?
It's a tool box game. You know that.
And Maye has more plus tools than Penix. So, if you project off that, which I do (plus production, etc), Maye is the better prospect right now.
That's not to say that he'll ultimately be better than Penix, but there is more there to develop.
It's not just a toolbox game, the distinguishing factor amongst all the best QBs vs the rest is how their minds operate.
So many QBs can sling the ball and are big and strong and athletic enough. They don't make it. Why? Because it's not just about their arm and physical attributes.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
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In comment 16470394 ryanmkeane said:
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
Ok, so basically you disagreeing with every scouting report. Penix is viewed as 2nd round prospect by the majority of draft experts.
Why is my opinion on him somehow different?
"Every scouting report" is a broad generalization, and have you personally scouted Penix? Meaning, watched more than a few YouTube highlights? Have you talked to his coaches? I would guess not. That's why a definitive take like yours is foolish.
I watched at least 4 full Washington games on TV this year (2 playoff and 2 regular season) and came away impressed, but I'm not a professional at this so what do I know about how his future prospects are. Would I be happy if they drafted Penix, yes. Would I be upset if they passed on him, no.
My point being is, this site has a lot of posters who state their opinions as fact, your statement falls into this bucket.
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In comment 16470679 aimrocky said:
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In comment 16470394 ryanmkeane said:
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
Ok, so basically you disagreeing with every scouting report. Penix is viewed as 2nd round prospect by the majority of draft experts.
Why is my opinion on him somehow different?
"Every scouting report" is a broad generalization, and have you personally scouted Penix? Meaning, watched more than a few YouTube highlights? Have you talked to his coaches? I would guess not. That's why a definitive take like yours is foolish.
I watched at least 4 full Washington games on TV this year (2 playoff and 2 regular season) and came away impressed, but I'm not a professional at this so what do I know about how his future prospects are. Would I be happy if they drafted Penix, yes. Would I be upset if they passed on him, no.
My point being is, this site has a lot of posters who state their opinions as fact, your statement falls into this bucket.
Penix is #3 qb definitively without the injury history. I think (and hope) he can be had for pick 47 or trade up to somewhere between the end of rd1 to pick 47. If we take Odunze at 6. Which is likely, then I will he praying we get Penix somewhere in that range.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Well a lot of posters here aren’t professional scouts. There are many professional scouts who view him as top 10 and they know a helluva lot more football than the majority of posters here.
Yeah, obviously I am not a professional scout. Who gives a fuck. This is a message board and I'm stating my opinion that he won't be a great NFL QB.
To me he's in the Andy Dalton camp. Pretty solid quarterback.
But let's be realistic about what we're getting. Both Maye and JJM are developmental guys, but for different reasons. Maye can be erratic and needs to fix mechanical issues. JJM needs to hit the gym and add body mass and work on deep ball and sideline delivery.
It's not just a toolbox game, the distinguishing factor amongst all the best QBs vs the rest is how their minds operate.
So many QBs can sling the ball and are big and strong and athletic enough. They don't make it. Why? Because it's not just about their arm and physical attributes.
I agree to an extent. A quick minded QB might see the big opportunity down the field, but he might not have the arm talent to execute the play at a high rate of success. Chad Pennington had a terrific football mind, but he had an arm that should have landed him a endorsement deal with Ramen Noodle.
But as I have mentioned many times, good luck figuring cerebral part out. That's the art part of the evaluator's job. I don't think anyone knows until it's gametime for a regular season game.
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In comment 16470394 ryanmkeane said:
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Penix was a great college QB. He isn't a great pro prospect.
Definitive statements like this are foolish.
On a site full of know it all's, you take the cake.
Ok, so basically you disagreeing with every scouting report. Penix is viewed as 2nd round prospect by the majority of draft experts.
Why is my opinion on him somehow different?
Waldman has him as QB2 in this class. The Giants also don’t seem to be scouting him like a guy the like if he slides to 47.
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Based on "rankings" I think that McCarthy at 6 would be a pretty significant reach. Lots of posters feel that way.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Well a lot of posters here aren’t professional scouts. There are many professional scouts who view him as top 10 and they know a helluva lot more football than the majority of posters here.
When you point out a professional option that's the opposite of Ryan's he just says "yeah well they've been wrong before" and then screams Josh Rosen
Yeah, obviously I am not a professional scout. Who gives a fuck. This is a message board and I'm stating my opinion that he won't be a great NFL QB.
To me he's in the Andy Dalton camp. Pretty solid quarterback.
You stated your opinion as fact. Having an opinion on a prospect is fine, but preface it as such. The only reason I called you out is that you have track record of doing this. Don't ask me to "prove it" because I know that is coming. I don't have the time and frankly don't care enough, but you post enough on this board to have this trend noticed.
It's fine if you don't like Penix, but don't tell others who do like him that he is "not a pro prospect". Your take holds the same water as anyone elses.
Schoen doesn't seem like a reach at 6 kind of GM.
Who gives a shit if lots of "posters" on a fan message board feel that way? Is that validation?
The NFL scouting/executive community is obviously higher on him than the "posters", so not sure what your argument is.
He may pan out or he may not, but the pick wouldn't be a reach.