Schoen is asked how much temptation there is to draft his own franchise QB. Schoen entertains the question and doesn't look like he even stops for a second to even consider mentioning Jones as their franchise QB. It's clear Schoen and Dabes are in the full effort of separating themselves from Jones.
Tremendously impressed with Schoen's manner throughout the conference
Schoen is asked how much temptation there is to draft his own franchise QB. Schoen entertains the question and doesn't look like he even stops for a second to even consider mentioning Jones as their franchise QB. It's clear Schoen and Dabes are in the full effort of separating themselves from Jones.
My main take-aways from this presser were (1) the recognition that the Giants are not one or two players away, (2) that a bunch of teams have called the Giants about trading for their pick (could be fibbing to drive up interest), and (3) the lack of push back at all about the assumption that QB was a goal.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
TAKEAWAY: Overvalued self-assessments have been a problem for #Giants for a decade.
Joe Schoen sounded today like he sees the roster for what it is. That's a good thing.
"I think we're not one player away or two players"
+
"We’ve gotten a lot of (trade) calls from people behind us"
=
could be laying groundwork to trade down and fill more holes if the desired QB is not available.
I didn't think #nygiants would pass on a WR at 6 until recently. Now I wonder if a 3-for-1 package that produces a starting WR, starting DB and Bo Nix could be tempting.
Remember, Schoen admitted that he sped up the rebuild last year after signing Daniel Jones to the $160M extension.
if he hadn't made the Burns trade. Carolina is in the same position as the Giants: a bad team with a lot of holes. They've watched Burns every day for five years and decided they would rather have the draft picks.
If Carolina makes the trade with a contender, the rationale for both sides is obvious. Not so when the Giants use their picks to outbid the contenders.
more impressed with Schoen's comments about the roster
if he hadn't made the Burns trade. Carolina is in the same position as the Giants: a bad team with a lot of holes. They've watched Burns every day for five years and decided they would rather have the draft picks.
If Carolina makes the trade with a contender, the rationale for both sides is obvious. Not so when the Giants use their picks to outbid the contenders.
and I would bet the following outcome based on Schoen's answers and tone:
If they stay at #6, Schoen is going WR. But if he gets a good package from a partner interested in moving up to #6, Schoen will take it and move down. At that point, I think it's probably still WR, but OL could be in play.
This question and answer stuck out:
Quote:
Q. You guys needed to add a quarterback just basically with where the roster was. You added Drew Luck. Do you still feel like you need or want to add a quarterback in this draft?
JOE SCHOEN: I don’t think so. I think with Drew’s experience, he has started games and played, and Daniel’s experience. And what Tommy did last year, another year in the system, Tommy’s come a long way. No, I think we could go into the season with the three that we have and be comfortable with that.
And this...
Quote:
JOE SCHOEN: One of the things, when you go back and you watch the 2022 season or all of Daniel's throws in 2022, like he was a 25-year-old player that played at a high level and we won 10 games and won a playoff game. I’m still confident in Daniel, the way he’s wired, what he showed us in 2022.
Schoen did the same thing with Neal to feel good about making that selection.
So, I think we have our QBs in 2024 already lined up.
So you think they are meeting with all of these quarterback at the Combine, private dinners, 30 visits, mass showings at Pro Days just to convince the fans of something that is not true?
I suppose that could be possible. But that would be a really cynical take.
The challenge is which of the QBs so they like and what will it take to get them? Daniels likely goes at 2, good chance Maye doesn't make it past NE, Denver and MN are hot and heavy to deal in, likely for JJM, and none of us know what they think about Penix or Nix.
So you think they are meeting with all of these quarterback at the Combine, private dinners, 30 visits, mass showings at Pro Days just to convince the fans of something that is not true?
I suppose that could be possible. But that would be a really cynical take.
I've had to address these points before because they could absolutely indicate genuine interest. So, I wouldn't say all of this is subterfuge.
When you are that high in the draft, I think it's vital to look at these QBs if your current QB isn't Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, Burrow, etc. And Jones certainly isn't in that class.
I could see Schoen and Daboll collecting data on these QBs, comparing their talent to Jones, Jones's experience in Daboll's offense, if Jones can still take the next step in the Daboll offense, the contract situation, etc.
And after digesting all of the factors, they still decide that Jones is still the more viable option and use the draft to bring in more infantry for Jones and the offense.
Again, I hope I am completely wrong, and this was all so Captain Obvious...
Makes me think they signed him and believed in him with no influence from Mara. If that's the case and they don't get a legit QB this year or next year, then they made their own bed.
RE: I've watched that video and read the transcript...
and I would bet the following outcome based on Schoen's answers and tone:
If they stay at #6, Schoen is going WR. But if he gets a good package from a partner interested in moving up to #6, Schoen will take it and move down. At that point, I think it's probably still WR, but OL could be in play.
This question and answer stuck out:
Quote:
Q. You guys needed to add a quarterback just basically with where the roster was. You added Drew Luck. Do you still feel like you need or want to add a quarterback in this draft?
JOE SCHOEN: I don’t think so. I think with Drew’s experience, he has started games and played, and Daniel’s experience. And what Tommy did last year, another year in the system, Tommy’s come a long way. No, I think we could go into the season with the three that we have and be comfortable with that.
And this...
Quote:
JOE SCHOEN: One of the things, when you go back and you watch the 2022 season or all of Daniel's throws in 2022, like he was a 25-year-old player that played at a high level and we won 10 games and won a playoff game. I’m still confident in Daniel, the way he’s wired, what he showed us in 2022.
Schoen did the same thing with Neal to feel good about making that selection.
So, I think we have our QBs in 2024 already lined up.
His answer about not feeling a need to get a QB seemed like a bluff to me. His talk about Daniel Jones in 2022 seemed sincere though sadly. In other words, I think he was fooled and made a massive mistake without much of any owner pressure. Now, he realizes he made a mistake.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
17h
Joe Schoen always says just enough to make you feel like he’s telling you everything. Then you go back and truly analyze what he told you and realize he told you absolutely nothing.
Little doubt about the desire to draft a QB but at what cost?
No one truly knows how the Giants have the QBs rated on their board. But assuming Sy's grades are close, here's what they give up in order to trade up or trade down. The purpose of drafting is to obtain the best talent possible.
3 ALL PRO LEVEL PLAYERS
92-WR M Harrison
91-WR R Odunze
90-WR M Nabers
We must not forget just how elite these 3 WRs truly are. Keep in mind that in 2014, OBJ was graded an 81, and D Adams only a 75, so Sy must really love these guys. In 2021, J Chase was given an 89 and D. Smith an 87. So trading up or trading down and losing out on one of these guys shouldn't be taken so lightly. WRs like these are once in a blue moon players. If you trade up for a QB, you better be sure you feel certain they will a top 5 QB, and not just a better starter than what we already have.
12 PRO BOWLERS
88-DT R Orhorhoro
88-OL O Fashanu
87-OL J Alt
86-OL T Fatanau
86-OL J Powers-Jackson
85-OL A Mims
85-OL JC Latham
87-QB C Williams
87-QB J Daniels
85-WR B Thomas
88-TE B Bowers
85-CB Q Mitchell
There are only 2 QBs we can trade up for that are expected to be ProBowlers in Williams and Daniels, and neither are likely to be attainable. But if Daniels doesn't go top 2, then trading away an elite AllPro WR for a ProBowl QB makes some sense if the cost to do so is not outrageous.
There are those who believe we could draft Alt at #6, but there are an unusual amount of ProBowl type OLs and so including them in a trade down scenario makes more sense.
A trade down scenario involving getting 2 ProBowlers instead of 1 AllPro is a reasonable option. Trading down to no lower than #15 makes that a guarantee.
I'm not going to list Sy's day one starters, other than to note that D Maye and J McCarthy at 83 and 84 would not merit giving away one of the truly elite players, let alone more draft capital no matter how much we are sick of D Jones. They are day one starters and as such, should not be worth it assuming the Giants have similar rankings as Sy.
So, the way it seems to me is we either stay at #6 or we trade down and gain 2 really good players. Both are acceptable strategies.
My main take-aways from this presser were (1) the recognition that the Giants are not one or two players away, (2) that a bunch of teams have called the Giants about trading for their pick (could be fibbing to drive up interest), and (3) the lack of push back at all about the assumption that QB was a goal.
Jones is done here.
Giants are after their QB it's just a matter of who and when (24 or 25).
@rydunleavy
TAKEAWAY: Overvalued self-assessments have been a problem for #Giants for a decade.
Joe Schoen sounded today like he sees the roster for what it is. That's a good thing.
"I think we're not one player away or two players"
+
"We’ve gotten a lot of (trade) calls from people behind us"
=
could be laying groundwork to trade down and fill more holes if the desired QB is not available.
I didn't think #nygiants would pass on a WR at 6 until recently. Now I wonder if a 3-for-1 package that produces a starting WR, starting DB and Bo Nix could be tempting.
Remember, Schoen admitted that he sped up the rebuild last year after signing Daniel Jones to the $160M extension.
The Giants are not just 1 or 2 players away.
In some way, maybe that takes the pressure off of management to secure one specific player or fulfill one specific need.
Rather than getting a great WR at 6 let's get 2-3 players trade down and fill major needs at multiple spots.
Giants and Jones vibe the past 2-3 weeks make this very much feel like they'd had enough of eachother.
If Carolina makes the trade with a contender, the rationale for both sides is obvious. Not so when the Giants use their picks to outbid the contenders.
If Carolina makes the trade with a contender, the rationale for both sides is obvious. Not so when the Giants use their picks to outbid the contenders.
Burns was a Pro Bowler in Carolina.
If they stay at #6, Schoen is going WR. But if he gets a good package from a partner interested in moving up to #6, Schoen will take it and move down. At that point, I think it's probably still WR, but OL could be in play.
This question and answer stuck out:
JOE SCHOEN: I don’t think so. I think with Drew’s experience, he has started games and played, and Daniel’s experience. And what Tommy did last year, another year in the system, Tommy’s come a long way. No, I think we could go into the season with the three that we have and be comfortable with that.
And this...
Schoen did the same thing with Neal to feel good about making that selection.
So, I think we have our QBs in 2024 already lined up.
So I guess that is progress.
So I guess that is progress.
I've been consistent pretty much from the get-go, actually.
I desperately want them to draft a QB at #6 or in a trade up. And definitely have ranked by favorites if the dream of getting a QB materializes.
However, when day two of the draft ends next Friday, I expect that we will still have a QB room of Jones, Lock, Cutlets.
I hope I am dead wrong and BBI reminds me.
I suppose that could be possible. But that would be a really cynical take.
I suppose that could be possible. But that would be a really cynical take.
I've had to address these points before because they could absolutely indicate genuine interest. So, I wouldn't say all of this is subterfuge.
When you are that high in the draft, I think it's vital to look at these QBs if your current QB isn't Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, Burrow, etc. And Jones certainly isn't in that class.
I could see Schoen and Daboll collecting data on these QBs, comparing their talent to Jones, Jones's experience in Daboll's offense, if Jones can still take the next step in the Daboll offense, the contract situation, etc.
And after digesting all of the factors, they still decide that Jones is still the more viable option and use the draft to bring in more infantry for Jones and the offense.
Again, I hope I am completely wrong, and this was all so Captain Obvious...
If they stay at #6, Schoen is going WR. But if he gets a good package from a partner interested in moving up to #6, Schoen will take it and move down. At that point, I think it's probably still WR, but OL could be in play.
This question and answer stuck out:
Quote:
Q. You guys needed to add a quarterback just basically with where the roster was. You added Drew Luck. Do you still feel like you need or want to add a quarterback in this draft?
JOE SCHOEN: I don’t think so. I think with Drew’s experience, he has started games and played, and Daniel’s experience. And what Tommy did last year, another year in the system, Tommy’s come a long way. No, I think we could go into the season with the three that we have and be comfortable with that.
And this...
Quote:
JOE SCHOEN: One of the things, when you go back and you watch the 2022 season or all of Daniel's throws in 2022, like he was a 25-year-old player that played at a high level and we won 10 games and won a playoff game. I’m still confident in Daniel, the way he’s wired, what he showed us in 2022.
Schoen did the same thing with Neal to feel good about making that selection.
So, I think we have our QBs in 2024 already lined up.
His answer about not feeling a need to get a QB seemed like a bluff to me. His talk about Daniel Jones in 2022 seemed sincere though sadly. In other words, I think he was fooled and made a massive mistake without much of any owner pressure. Now, he realizes he made a mistake.
with the NY Giants when he is no longer asked about comparisons with his Buffalo Bills experience. Until then, he sorta treading water.
with the NY Giants when he is no longer asked about comparisons with his Buffalo Bills experience. Until then, he sorta treading water.
This is a great point.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
17h
Joe Schoen always says just enough to make you feel like he’s telling you everything. Then you go back and truly analyze what he told you and realize he told you absolutely nothing.
3 ALL PRO LEVEL PLAYERS
92-WR M Harrison
91-WR R Odunze
90-WR M Nabers
We must not forget just how elite these 3 WRs truly are. Keep in mind that in 2014, OBJ was graded an 81, and D Adams only a 75, so Sy must really love these guys. In 2021, J Chase was given an 89 and D. Smith an 87. So trading up or trading down and losing out on one of these guys shouldn't be taken so lightly. WRs like these are once in a blue moon players. If you trade up for a QB, you better be sure you feel certain they will a top 5 QB, and not just a better starter than what we already have.
12 PRO BOWLERS
88-DT R Orhorhoro
88-OL O Fashanu
87-OL J Alt
86-OL T Fatanau
86-OL J Powers-Jackson
85-OL A Mims
85-OL JC Latham
87-QB C Williams
87-QB J Daniels
85-WR B Thomas
88-TE B Bowers
85-CB Q Mitchell
There are only 2 QBs we can trade up for that are expected to be ProBowlers in Williams and Daniels, and neither are likely to be attainable. But if Daniels doesn't go top 2, then trading away an elite AllPro WR for a ProBowl QB makes some sense if the cost to do so is not outrageous.
There are those who believe we could draft Alt at #6, but there are an unusual amount of ProBowl type OLs and so including them in a trade down scenario makes more sense.
A trade down scenario involving getting 2 ProBowlers instead of 1 AllPro is a reasonable option. Trading down to no lower than #15 makes that a guarantee.
I'm not going to list Sy's day one starters, other than to note that D Maye and J McCarthy at 83 and 84 would not merit giving away one of the truly elite players, let alone more draft capital no matter how much we are sick of D Jones. They are day one starters and as such, should not be worth it assuming the Giants have similar rankings as Sy.
So, the way it seems to me is we either stay at #6 or we trade down and gain 2 really good players. Both are acceptable strategies.