It sounds like one or both of Vikings/Broncos will be jumping the Giants for quarterbacks. Haven't seen it mentioned, but maybe we could make a deal with one of them if NE (or one of Vikings/Broncos) takes Maye and JJM is there at 6?
I'd prefer to take JJM if he's there, but I could see Schoen wanting to trade down in that scenario.
Not sure what to believe right now (kudos to Schoen), but it does seem like indications are that the Giants will stay put and take a receiver or trade down. The rumors of them moving up seem to have died down.
Who is your ideal team for a trade down? And what would you want?
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IMO
So you don't see a scenario where Joe Schoen would take Penix later in the draft?
We'll agree to disagree.
Yes, in the 2nd or via trade up back into the first if he falls. I don’t see a scenario where he doesn’t like him at 6 and trades down thinking he can pick up an extra pick and sneak in his new QB at 12.
Can that happen? I guess. But that’s a hell of a gamble if you actually like the player and have a 1st round grade on him with a few QB needy teams picking between 6-11 or right after within striking distance of a trade up.
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As good as he is, Read that he wears a brace and intends to keep doing so.
He’s going to need a solid line on the right side and if he suffers a career ending injury, The owners and most of the fan base will want them gone, especially if DJ has a halfway decent career as a game manager type qb.
Why is his wearing a knee brace an issue? Actually it is smart. Why not take additional protection?
DJ is not going to have a decent career with the Giants.
To me, I just feel it will somewhat limit his movement.
I do agree that DJ won’t have a decent year here. However I think if he ends up with a team that doesn’t ask him to do much he might be ok.
My preferences are
1) Drake Maye
2) Trade down to a team that wants JJM, hopefully a trade where we can potentially get a top 5 2025 pick, broncos rumor sounds good and get a project qb later in the draft
3) one of the top wr’s minus Nabers,
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He threw more passes than anyone else in that time. He's a pocket passer and excels at getting the ball out quickly and decisively.
Who's more likely to get hurt? Penix, or say Jayden Daniels who runs like he's looking for a truck to collide with?
Yep, he is going to be 4 years removed from his knee injuries when camp starts. There has to be a point where it is not an issue any more.
10+ years ago it would be a real issue, surgeries have exponentially evolved so much that it's different nowadays. Even after 2 acl surgeries and individual could potentially have a stronger acl than they did before their first acl tear.
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In comment 16474392 Go Terps said:
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He threw more passes than anyone else in that time. He's a pocket passer and excels at getting the ball out quickly and decisively.
Who's more likely to get hurt? Penix, or say Jayden Daniels who runs like he's looking for a truck to collide with?
Yep, he is going to be 4 years removed from his knee injuries when camp starts. There has to be a point where it is not an issue any more.
10+ years ago it would be a real issue, surgeries have exponentially evolved so much that it's different nowadays. Even after 2 acl surgeries and individual could potentially have a stronger acl than they did before their first acl tear.
He is at a 20% greater risk of having another ACL on that same right knee then if he hadn't already had two grade 3 ACL's on his right knee. You can't undo his prior injuries even if he's been lucky in the last 4 college seasons. Now you are talking about the NFL, with bigger, faster and stronger defensive players against a Giant OL that has been far below average over the last few years. No way do I take that risk with the 6th pick.
I think we'd have to draft JJM (presumably who Denver wants at 6) and wait to see if Penix is still available when Denver picks. And even that's risky because you could get "stuck" with JJM.
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My question would be if you can draft Penix at 12, why can't you draft him at 6?
Because maybe at 12 you also get another second round pick or a second round pick in next years draft.
If 6 to 12 you better be getting a lot more than a 2nd round pick
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In comment 16474469 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 16474392 Go Terps said:
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He threw more passes than anyone else in that time. He's a pocket passer and excels at getting the ball out quickly and decisively.
Who's more likely to get hurt? Penix, or say Jayden Daniels who runs like he's looking for a truck to collide with?
Yep, he is going to be 4 years removed from his knee injuries when camp starts. There has to be a point where it is not an issue any more.
10+ years ago it would be a real issue, surgeries have exponentially evolved so much that it's different nowadays. Even after 2 acl surgeries and individual could potentially have a stronger acl than they did before their first acl tear.
He is at a 20% greater risk of having another ACL on that same right knee then if he hadn't already had two grade 3 ACL's on his right knee. You can't undo his prior injuries even if he's been lucky in the last 4 college seasons. Now you are talking about the NFL, with bigger, faster and stronger defensive players against a Giant OL that has been far below average over the last few years. No way do I take that risk with the 6th pick.
93.2% of stats are made up.
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In comment 16474488 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16474469 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 16474392 Go Terps said:
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He threw more passes than anyone else in that time. He's a pocket passer and excels at getting the ball out quickly and decisively.
Who's more likely to get hurt? Penix, or say Jayden Daniels who runs like he's looking for a truck to collide with?
Yep, he is going to be 4 years removed from his knee injuries when camp starts. There has to be a point where it is not an issue any more.
10+ years ago it would be a real issue, surgeries have exponentially evolved so much that it's different nowadays. Even after 2 acl surgeries and individual could potentially have a stronger acl than they did before their first acl tear.
He is at a 20% greater risk of having another ACL on that same right knee then if he hadn't already had two grade 3 ACL's on his right knee. You can't undo his prior injuries even if he's been lucky in the last 4 college seasons. Now you are talking about the NFL, with bigger, faster and stronger defensive players against a Giant OL that has been far below average over the last few years. No way do I take that risk with the 6th pick.
93.2% of stats are made up.
He's also implying the size and speed of defenders plays a part in ACL injuries when most are non-contact.
He has too much risk for where he will be drafted. But we have the same risks already sticking with Jones so maybe you can look past it.
Prefer to draft the stud WR and then work for a QB later, if it ends up Penix we better be readyt to do this again in 2 year.
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In comment 16474341 Go Terps said:
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My question would be if you can draft Penix at 12, why can't you draft him at 6?
Because maybe at 12 you also get another second round pick or a second round pick in next years draft.
If 6 to 12 you better be getting a lot more than a 2nd round pick
According to the charts, 6 to 12 is almost exactly a 2nd round pick - about 400 points.
So a 2nd and next years 2nd is a good deal.
This is like criticizing Reggie Miller's shooting form.
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In comment 16474349 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16474341 Go Terps said:
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My question would be if you can draft Penix at 12, why can't you draft him at 6?
Because maybe at 12 you also get another second round pick or a second round pick in next years draft.
If 6 to 12 you better be getting a lot more than a 2nd round pick
According to the charts, 6 to 12 is almost exactly a 2nd round pick - about 400 points.
So a 2nd and next years 2nd is a good deal.
Those charts are useless for 1st rd picks, especially when a qb is involved. According to that logic, we could get pick 4 for pick 70 and 6 and that would even be overpaying or we could get pick 3 for pick 6, 47 and 70 (and that would be an overpay too).
If the Broncos did offer the Giants #12, next year's #1, and Surtain, you take that offer.
That’s a no brainer for the Giants but I’m also not a fan of McCarthy at all.
But even if the giants had 2 high 1sts next year, nothing is guaranteed in terms of being able to trade up for a QB. Look at this years top 3- the teams have to be willing to trade down. It’s not always what you can offer.
And there isn't a great comeback for saying if you are going to take him at 12, why don't you take him at 6?
That's why I do think there is a possibility he could be in play at 6.
Again, it depends on the medicals.
Inconsistent over the middle
Poor footwork
Not mobile.
Struggles to throw on the run.
These things are imperative in todays games.
And there isn't a great comeback for saying if you are going to take him at 12, why don't you take him at 6?
That's why I do think there is a possibility he could be in play at 6.
Again, it depends on the medicals.
medical when major injuries concerned always a big if and the lack of mobility is a significant differentiator.
any QB who doesn't run is playing a significantly harder game than any qb who can run. even herbert/stroud run a little (200ish yards, a few carries per game, 1 first down per game, 4+ ypc). penix has been a total non-runner the last 4 years around or under 2 ypc.
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but endorsing it at 12, while also ignoring the risk of him potentially being gone at 12.
It's a great point.
But we all know the problem with Penix. I just watched Fowler say he could go anywhere from the teens to day two.
I could see him go as high a 6.
However, if you trade down, and acquire more draft capital, it would take the sting out of him tearing his ACL the third time.
I just don't feel terribly comfortable taking him at #6.
The penix at 6 takes are going to age like milk come next Sunday
I'll have what he's having.
Maybe Penix has more arm strength but McCarthys is plenty strong enough
Maybe Penix has more arm strength but McCarthys is plenty strong enough
There's plenty of guys that can throw a football hard or far. Kyle Boller's "kneel at the 50" stunt comes to mind. Give me the guy that has done it accurately in games time and again.
Penix slings it no doubt, McCarthy has plenty of arm strength. He does need to adjust his throwing motion though. It's his biggest area to work on I think.
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The guys that throw the out patterns accurately and on time - that's arm strength. And at the Combine Penix was ahead of everybody. Milton included.
Penix slings it no doubt, McCarthy has plenty of arm strength. He does need to adjust his throwing motion though. It's his biggest area to work on I think.
I thought McCarthy looked the best, after Penix. One thing about McCarthy is his deep ball isn't great.
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In comment 16474755 Go Terps said:
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The guys that throw the out patterns accurately and on time - that's arm strength. And at the Combine Penix was ahead of everybody. Milton included.
Penix slings it no doubt, McCarthy has plenty of arm strength. He does need to adjust his throwing motion though. It's his biggest area to work on I think.
I thought McCarthy looked the best, after Penix. One thing about McCarthy is his deep ball isn't great.
Yeah, I think his issues can all be alleviated with an improved throwing motion like how Josh Allen did. He had similar issues with touch and accuracy on the intermediate to deep throws. I think this is something teams see with JJM, some teams think he could take exponential strides with a rehoned throwing motion. Sounds like we don't want him anyways, so it won't matter for us. I'd much rather get Penix than trade a haul for Maye.
Inconsistent over the middle
Poor footwork
Not mobile.
Struggles to throw on the run.
These things are imperative in todays games.
I don't feel great about McCarthy, but he has more dimensions than Penix. He's much more athletic and accomplished off-script.
And while I wouldn't touch McCarthy in the lottery and probably not round one, I definitely wouldn't touch Penix in the first round.
He can hum it, but that one dimension isn't worth a big investment in today's game where a dual-threat is much more valuable.
It's about value, and weighing against the risk of his medicals. If you work out the scenarios and felt Penix will be there at #12, walking away with Surtain Jr and Penix (if he's a target and you're ok with his medicals) is a no-brainer. Obviously, there's scenarios where it could be too cute, but that's the rationale. Value and impact.
I'd be happy if we ended up with Penix, although my only caveat is that the perceived value is 6 is too high. I'd hope they could drop down, add picks and still get him.
Didn’t Chad Pennington throw accurate out-routes that were on-time?
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The guys that throw the out patterns accurately and on time - that's arm strength. And at the Combine Penix was ahead of everybody. Milton included.
Didn’t Chad Pennington throw accurate out-routes that were on-time?
Not in my memory. If he did, he has to throw them really early. A 10 yard out, if the QB is 5 yards behind the LOS between the hashes, requires a 30 yard throw. Not an easy throw on a line.
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In comment 16474755 Go Terps said:
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The guys that throw the out patterns accurately and on time - that's arm strength. And at the Combine Penix was ahead of everybody. Milton included.
Didn’t Chad Pennington throw accurate out-routes that were on-time?
Not in my memory. If he did, he has to throw them really early. A 10 yard out, if the QB is 5 yards behind the LOS between the hashes, requires a 30 yard throw. Not an easy throw on a line.
gotcha, I don't remember it being a detriment to his game (not a strength). I am not trying to nit-pick. To me, arm strength is made up of velocity and the distance a player can throw accurately. Arm talent on the other hand in my view describes a player that uses both their mind and arm to accurately deliver passes that are also on-time. Players like Kerry Collins had very good arm strength, but his anticipation was not the best in my view which lead to passes arriving with a high velocity or at a great distance, but perhaps late and somewhat inaccurate.
Pennington was very good anticipating the defense and his wide receivers which helped make up for his lack of velocity and throwing distance. Anyway, not important. Just a different view.
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The guys that throw the out patterns accurately and on time - that's arm strength. And at the Combine Penix was ahead of everybody. Milton included.
Didn’t Chad Pennington throw accurate out-routes that were on-time?
He was a noodle arm, at least as compared to NFL QBs
The odds have come back towards even from at one point, -300
@prettyrickey213
BREAKING: Hearing from reputable sources that Jayden Daniels is actively trying to tank his draft stock because he wants to play for Antonio Pierce in LV. I still believe he ends up in Washington but think this is why the betting markets are acting kooky. #HTTC #RaiderNation
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
BREAKING: Hearing from reputable sources that Jayden Daniels is actively trying to tank his draft stock because he wants to play for Antonio Pierce in LV. I still believe he ends up in Washington but think this is why the betting markets are acting kooky. #HTTC #RaiderNation
I love Rickey, but is this a fallback for him if JD doesn't go 3 he can use this to explain why his guarantee was wrong? I'm not seeing how JD is tanking his draft stock?
I don’t really believe this, but it would be hilarious if true.
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
BREAKING: Hearing from reputable sources that Jayden Daniels is actively trying to tank his draft stock because he wants to play for Antonio Pierce in LV. I still believe he ends up in Washington but think this is why the betting markets are acting kooky. #HTTC #RaiderNation
I love Rickey, but is this a fallback for him if JD doesn't go 3 he can use this to explain why his guarantee was wrong? I'm not seeing how JD is tanking his draft stock?
Nobody is tanking their draft positioning and in the process costing themselves millions because they want a particular team
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
BREAKING: Hearing from reputable sources that Jayden Daniels is actively trying to tank his draft stock because he wants to play for Antonio Pierce in LV. I still believe he ends up in Washington but think this is why the betting markets are acting kooky. #HTTC #RaiderNation
LOL. This news came out YESTERDAY from Schrager.
what is he saying, several points have been made above.
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what is he saying, several points have been made above.
Daniels still favorite for washington, but there is some stuff going on behind the scenes. Something like that.
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In comment 16475404 Sean said:
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what is he saying, several points have been made above.
Daniels still favorite for washington, but there is some stuff going on behind the scenes. Something like that.
thanks..
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what is he saying, several points have been made above.
Daniels has doubts about playing in WSH.
Inconsistent over the middle
Poor footwork
Not mobile.
Struggles to throw on the run.
These things are imperative in todays games.
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He threw more passes than anyone else in that time. He's a pocket passer and excels at getting the ball out quickly and decisively.
Who's more likely to get hurt? Penix, or say Jayden Daniels who runs like he's looking for a truck to collide with?
Yep, he is going to be 4 years removed from his knee injuries when camp starts. There has to be a point where it is not an issue any more.
Now, I'm not saying he will be. But, it is a possibility. My take hasn't wavered on him. I have felt all year that he has the highest ceiling of any QB this draft, including Williams and Daniels. His ability to get rid of the ball, throw it deep, make quick decisions, etc. are where that comes from. Hoewer, I also feel he has the lowest floor of any of the top 6 QBs because of his injuries and that he has had the luxury of sitting in a VERY clean pocket the last couple of years.
I know his injuries are a few years behind him. But 2 ACLs are worrisome in and of itself. What really bothers my are the 2 shoulder injuries. That joint is the most susceptible for re-injury in sports. I love his talent and would be excited to have it on our roster. But, I would also be scared at the same time.