I've seen a ton of posts that say if we go WR, it should be Odunze. I'm on record as saying I am a big fan of his style of play and personality.
However, Nabers' skillset probably translates to a higher upside in the NFL. Some have him actually rated over Harrison.
I know there are plenty of fans out there who feel that if we don't get a QB this year that the draft will be a failure. However, I can't be upset with the pick of Nabers at #6. The guy is a stud and would immediately transform the WR room. Hyatt and Robinson become much different players when teamed with Nabers.
Nix is supposed to go in the first round too. Since he doesn't already have bad knees and shoulders, why not Nix at #6? Is that OK? That would be the safer pick.
One thing I have been able to discern from Schoen with his view on QB prospects is that he absolutely values physical tools - size, arm, mobility, etc. Draw a line back to his days in Buffalo when they traded for Allen.
So, I don't think Nix has enough of those traits to convince Schoen to use pick six.
But the only way I do that is if the doctors/trainers gave him a clean bill of health. One of the insiders (Fowler, Albright, one of those guys) said that some teams are OK with Penix as long as he is "managed". What the hell does that mean? Limited practice snaps?
I know the Giants need to address the position.
I've seen a couple of long interviews with Waldman recently and he's very convincing when he says the reason why so many young QB studs bust is they are thrown to the wolves when they are not ready to process the NFL game and it wrecks them. He said there are guys who come out who are more NFL ready in processing the game. This year he said Penix and Nix fall into that category. I suspect because of all of the games they've played (although oddly I don't think he put Daniels in that category...not 100 percent sure about that because I think I skipped over his Daniels comments).
Long story short, it might be safer to take the "smarter" (processing) guy if you intend him to start sooner rather than to sit him for two years (like Love).
As for Nabers, he has the highest upside of the WRs but may also be of the greatest risk being in NY and maturity. I would still take him. I’d rank them Harrison, Nabers, Odunze.
I would only trade up for a QB if it didn’t include a #1 next year. I wouldn’t trade up for McCarthy. If McCarthy is there I try to trade out and get a #1 for next year. I need at least 2 #1s, or a 2 this year and next. You are giving up on the opportunity to draft an elite player for a good player. Wr is a need and value.
What I don't want is JJ McCarthy. His own coach never trusted him to throw the ball and now that the coach has the 5th pick he wants to make it seem like JJ is the next coming of Tom Brady.. just so he can get much more value out of the 5th pick or get MHJ.
2022... they did not extend the option. He was on the way out.
2023... that was the fuck-up. The should have Franchised him.
2024... they seem to recognize they fucked up and are trying to fix it. But we are in an unprecedented draft where QBs are going to go 1-2-3-4. Their entire pre-draft progress has been QB-centric.
So criticize them for 2023. That's fair.
And we still don't know how the 2024 draft will play out. They may get their QB by trading up. They may take one later.
Let me clarify - if the Giants leave this draft with a QB (it doesn't have to be Penix) I'll be right there giving Schoen credit for making it happen and feeling good about our direction.
I agree with your recollection of their actions these past three years. I don't disagree with a thing. And my stance is that if you took a job that you knew had a QB problem and in 3 years you not only added no one but you paid the problem - that's unacceptable.
I'll say again: entering 2024 with a Jones/Lock/DeVito QB room is unacceptable. If I were the owner my 2024 expectation would be a winning season with an explosive offense led by Jones. Anything less and I'm firing the GM and the head coach.
The number one next year is going to be a super number one value to the Giants because there is a good chance they will be picking top ten next year. If Maye and/or JJM are not attainable because they are gone take Nabers and move on.
Let the GM and Head Coach use the rest of the draft to make some astute picks/trades to strengthen the roster. We can agree we have many holes to fill. Hold on to next year's one with the only exception is to use it to get the QB they absolutely love that I don't believe is Penix or Nix.
Here's the other issue. Wasn't Daboll hired partly due to his ability to develop QBs? Well, why isn't the team bringing in an QBs for him to develop? There is a risk that he will be fired after 2024 without ever drafting a QB. That's ridiculous to me.
Lastly, did we all forget last season? Jones has always had durability issues. The Giants played a game which they didn't want their QB to throw a pass. DeVito handed it off every play just about against the Jets. I don't believe the Giants are that high on Drew Lock to be the solution for 2024.
If the Giants keep waiting, it'll become 2026 and we'll still be talking about Daniel Jones.
You have said Schoen must come away with a franchise QB this year. Have you changed your tune on that. Drafting Nabers could very well mean status quo at QB.
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You simply can't ignore what you are passing up. There are three elite talents in this draft - they are all wide receivers. Three of the quarterbacks have made the case from an elite ceiling perspective to justify reaching for need. That's it. Passing on any of the three receivers for the second tier quarterbacks is a mistake. Arguably, the biggest mistake there is as we have collectively experienced for five years with DJ.
You have said Schoen must come away with a franchise QB this year. Have you changed your tune on that. Drafting Nabers could very well mean status quo at QB.
No question, but you can't force a pick. If they have a chance to move up to four for one of the top three guys, then they absolutely should. Whatever it takes except their 2025 first pick. But that would only happen if the Pats are morons so I am not counting on it. So they either take a WR at six and try to trade back up to get one of the second tier guys. Or they trade back with a Denver for a Surtain like package that has been discussed here and draft Penix at twelve. Surtain and a 2025 first that will likely be a top ten pick is in my mind the minimal rate for passing on an elite talent. As we learned with Micah Parsons.
Passing on an elite talent like Nabers to pick one of the QBs rated 4-6, gets this team nowhere. The Giants aren't going to win a Super Bowl by drafting a QB who is marginally better than DJ.
In November when they're 3-7 and the offense is scoring 18 PPG I wonder how people are going to feel.
Déjà vu all over again or Groundhog Day, take your pick.
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If they pick Nabers Thursday night almost everyone will be on board, talking about his grade, the value, etc.
In November when they're 3-7 and the offense is scoring 18 PPG I wonder how people are going to feel.
And that's going to be different if we draft a rookie QB? We are multiple years away. Looking at one player to fix this team is ridiculous.
True, but at some point we have to start. If we never start we never finish.
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I think a very likely outcome is the Giants pick Nabers and stick with Jones. The Giants win 6 or so games next year and Nabers gives them a big boost on offense. Which leads to Jones in 2025.
I've said it most of this off-season, if a WR is selected at #6, the announcement is loud and clear from Schoen's office at 1925 GW:
Jones is our guy now and beyond.
Then John Mara will deserve every second of abuse he gets. It will get ugly.
If NYG whiffs on these QBs - I like the idea of stockpiling 2025 picks.
If no QB, I am in for trading back in the 9-15 range. Take Thomas or killer CB/DL plus an extra 2 and maybe 2 next year. But I do not see the likely trade teams with a good round 2 pick except LV at 44 or Atlanta at 43... I don't see Atlanta giving up next years #2.
Passing on an elite talent like Nabers to pick one of the QBs rated 4-6, gets this team nowhere. The Giants aren't going to win a Super Bowl by drafting a QB who is marginally better than DJ.
Marginally better?
Jones couldn't sniff a D1 school offering him a scholarship let alone a program like Michigan.
JJM is a much better QB than Jones.
It's up to the HC/GM to find something in a player's game then can elevate to the pro level.
If they see something in one of these QBs in the draft that they can make work, I say get him and move forward.
PS I would be very happy with the choice .
In November when they're 3-7 and the offense is scoring 18 PPG I wonder how people are going to feel.
Always so positive! I would like to meet you one day because I'm sure you are a decent human being, but such a slave to darkness. I'm hoping for the best! For and from everyone!
I don't want the Giants to trade up for a QB (unless by some miracle Daniels is there at 3 and NE doesn't want him).
The Giants have to many holes on the roster besides QB to be using picks to trade up for a question mark at QB.
If Nabers’ ability to catch a 5 yard slant and take it 50 yards for a TD somehow tells Schoen and Daboll we can win with Jones, we hired Gettleman and Judge 2.0.
Passing on an elite talent like Nabers to pick one of the QBs rated 4-6, gets this team nowhere. The Giants aren't going to win a Super Bowl by drafting a QB who is marginally better than DJ.
Once again, not all teams have the same rankings. It's not a ai automated draft. Josh Allen was the 3rd QB and Lamar Jackson was the 5th QB in 2018. Dan Marino was the 5th QB selected in 1983. Joe Montana was the 4th QB selected in 1979. There are myriad examples of this.
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I'm not giving up next year's #1 pick (which could be a top 10 pick) to trade back up for Penix or Nix. I'm just not doing that.
The number one next year is going to be a super number one value to the Giants because there is a good chance they will be picking top ten next year. If Maye and/or JJM are not attainable because they are gone take Nabers and move on.
Let the GM and Head Coach use the rest of the draft to make some astute picks/trades to strengthen the roster. We can agree we have many holes to fill. Hold on to next year's one with the only exception is to use it to get the QB they absolutely love that I don't believe is Penix or Nix.
They are picking top 10 already this year. In a draft where 4 QBs may be top 5 prospects, you don’t like forcing the QB pick, but in 2025 you do? How many top 5 prospects are you anticipating being in the 2025 draft?
I don’t understand these posts. If you don’t want to “force” a pick at QB in 2024, why do you love the idea of doing it in 2025? If pick needs to be for value, then you need to be ok with the idea that it may be another 5 years or longer before those line up. Or you need to be ok addressing it through trade or free agency.
Hope he doesn't drop passes when/if the Giants get back to the playoffs...like the last LSU WR here. I like WR's like Nicks.
Reminding everyone, the draft is as much for the future, to build your team as it is about plugging holes and getting immediate, top notch level play!
Apparently, we've all forgotten this.
Nabers is 20 years old!! If he becomes the player we think he will be, we've got a pro bowl talent for the next decade plus.
I suspect we will resolve the QB issue over the next year or two.
So how does drafting this kind of talent not make us better in the long run?
Oh yeah, we are all tired of losing, have to kick some ass immediately. (sigh).
If Nabers is still there at the sixth pick the Giants should scoop him up!
I said that on a thread I started to remind people of the gun incident because I and many others had forgotten about that. I got a lot of backlash because I didn't explain better. He would still be on our board, but being knocked down essentially would take him off our board because other teams won't care and will take him in the top 10.
They are on the fringe of Maye/McCarthy. They could draft Nix.
I just don't buy that they can't get a QB. It feels like an excuse to just put it off to a year which is supposed to be a weaker class.
An easy scenario to envision is NYG going 7-10 and picking 12th in 2025. Then what? Make a more expensive trade up for a QB prospect possibly less talented than McCarthy and maybe Penix?
I agree with Go Terps. I don't view passing on QB as an acceptable outcome.
At 6 we're not looking for "the best QB on our team" We're looking for a 12 year starter. If Penix is that, pick him. If he's not, you don't.
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Penix is a projected first rounder by most accounts. As you always says, the successes of the QBs in this draft won't be in the order they are drafted.
You know the Giants don't have a solution at QB. Passing on first round graded QBs when there is no QB solution on the team is questionable to me.
Nix is supposed to go in the first round too. Since he doesn't already have bad knees and shoulders, why not Nix at #6? Is that OK? That would be the safer pick.
If you're looking at measurables, DJ has MUCH better tangibles than Bo Nix.... Nix at 6 would be a joke.
At 6 we're not looking for "the best QB on our team" We're looking for a 12 year starter. If Penix is that, pick him. If he's not, you don't.
12 year starter? How do you know a guy is a 12 year starter before the guy starts a single game?
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At 6 we're not looking for "the best QB on our team" We're looking for a 12 year starter. If Penix is that, pick him. If he's not, you don't.
12 year starter? How do you know a guy is a 12 year starter before the guy starts a single game?
That is why you have scouts. To project what a player may become while playing for us. If it was as simple as picking names off a dartboard the Giants could hire a bunch of active BBI members.
Why not? Both guys are often described as Day 1 picks. And the Giants have to upgrade the QB position.
A top 10 pick may not get us a QB next year either. We have a #6 now and seems like it isn't enough to get what everybody wants.
If you're looking at measurables, DJ has MUCH better tangibles than Bo Nix.... Nix at 6 would be a joke.[/quote]
I'm curious what those tangibles are. Can you please list them?
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In comment 16478146 4xchamps said:
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At 6 we're not looking for "the best QB on our team" We're looking for a 12 year starter. If Penix is that, pick him. If he's not, you don't.
12 year starter? How do you know a guy is a 12 year starter before the guy starts a single game?
That is why you have scouts. To project what a player may become while playing for us. If it was as simple as picking names off a dartboard the Giants could hire a bunch of active BBI members.
As poorly as the Giants have drafted these last ten years they probably would be better off.
If you're looking at measurables, DJ has MUCH better tangibles than Bo Nix.... Nix at 6 would be a joke.
I'm curious what those tangibles are. Can you please list them? [/quote]
Stronger arm, more athletic, taller
Can't have a good OL without a good QB. We've been trying it your way for years. And it doesn't work because we don't have a starting caliber signal caller.
I don't think fans realize how ugly things will be if the Giants start slow with a QB room of Jones, Lock & DeVito. It will be very bad. I think bad enough to cost people their jobs.
The 2022 team benefitted from a fast start. If it's Jones and a slow start, it's going to be really bad.
If you can at least go to Penix or Nix, that will help. Let's at least try something different at the position.
Bottom line, if Nabers is the pick Thursday - I want Schoen on the phones trying to get back into the first for Penix or Nix.
Right there with you on the bottom line, although I'd rather it'd be Nix because he's got the build to take a beating
If you get him I think you then look at adding Nix (or Penix if he gets past LV).
We've obviously done a ton of work on QBs. Its not a smoke screen, we are absolutely exploring any and all avenues for adding a QB in the draft. So if we pass on QB and take Nabers I assume its because we don't have conviction in what is available and I am okay with that.