When it comes to Joe & the chance of us moving up for a QB.
“I mean, we got criticized a little bit for how much we gave up for Josh. And I’m like, ‘Well, if he doesn’t work out, I’m not going to be here anyway. And if he does work out, nobody’s gonna give a shit."
Obviously Schoen was in Buffalo when the Bills moved up to take Allen. Not saying we're going to move up for a QB, but I think Beane's overall point is right: if you trade up & land a stud QB, no one is going to GAF what you gave up. QB is the most important position in the sport, if not in all of sports.
Yes, obviously you could fuck up & take a bust. That's a real possibility. But if you have a conviction of someone being an elite QB, make moves. Assuming Caleb-Daniels go 1-2...if the Giants think Drake or even JJM will be an elite QB, get on the phone with Wolf in New England & make it happen.
Kevin Abrams.
Your hyperbole makes you look like an idiot.
There are multiple questions here that we really can't answer:
(1) Are the Patriots really serious about potentially trading down?
(2) Who are they likely to take?
(3) Is Schoen willing to part with the 2025 1st-rounder? (GoDeep says no but we really don't know the answer to that).
(4) Would Schoen and Daboll be OK with either Maye or McCarthy (we have conflicting reports on that).
You’re not saying what you’re giving up and who the QB is. I get that you want to replace Jones. The consensus is Maye or McCarthy and Pennix and Nix are not top 10.
Who is your QB and what are you willing to give up? Maye to me is the better prospect. McCarthy needs more support and system to be worth it but that’s my opinion. What’s yours?
Why is it obvious that someone has to be willing to trade with the Giants?
Wrong.
Trade 1:
Buffalo gets: 12th and 187th overall pick
Cincinnati gets: 21st and 185th overall pick and OT Cordy Glenn
Trade 2:
Buffalo gets: 7th and 255th overall pick
Tampa Bay gets: 12th, 53rd, and 56th overall pick
But carry on, schmapples.
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And, NE can't ask for 4 firsts, because there is a point where it makes no sense.
Why is it obvious that someone has to be willing to trade with the Giants?
Wrong.
Not what I meant. The comma there is doing some work meaning "of course, someone would have to be willing to deal with the Giants though."
All good.
Me too, but I still think JS is working all the angles and if is possible to make a deal, he will.
There is likely far more grayness on all these critical decisions and would imagine many of them still go forward despite not having conviction. And I bet many still work out okay too without it.
I don’t like the comment the draft is a crapshoot. But it certainly has enough variables that no process can eliminate all the uncertainties. What is not uncertain though is the Giants are not going to reach the promise land again without upgrading at QB. They have to take a shot and it comes with the risk they will get it wrong. But you still have to swing.
If you don't have the QB position settled you don't have a team. And if you have conviction on a QB with reach you go and get him.
it's what Beane said, if you're wrong you're likely out of a job and if you're right your team is likely competitive and people won't care what the price was.
Trade 1:
Buffalo gets: 12th and 187th overall pick
Cincinnati gets: 21st and 185th overall pick and OT Cordy Glenn
Trade 2:
Buffalo gets: 7th and 255th overall pick
Tampa Bay gets: 12th, 53rd, and 56th overall pick
But carry on, schmapples.
My bad: the Bills got their QB for what amounted to two 2nd round picks and a vet OT they were moving on from anyway. Maybe we could throw in Waller before he retires!
Giants would be moving from 6 to 3. Could it take a 1 next year? Probably. But it won’t take much more than that.
Giants would be moving from 6 to 3. Could it take a 1 next year? Probably. But it won’t take much more than that.
Maybe! But this from ESPN earlier today: The Patriots are posturing for an “unprecedented deal” to move out of the third overall pick. That’s the term used in Sunday’s item from Mike Reiss of ESPN.com.
The Patriots want a “blockbuster” offer, per Reiss. Otherwise, they’ll draft a quarterback of their own in that spot.
Which by the way is what the Patriots have been saying pretty much the past 6 weeks: 'we'll move the pick if someone blows us away with an offer. Otherwise we're sitting pretty and taking a QB.'
The best scenario for the Giants is for the Vikings to trade up with the Patriots and take a QB, leaving a QB the Giants would be happy with.
Another good scenario would the Pats to take a QB, leaving a QB the Giants would be happy with.
The only scenario that it really makes sense for the Patriots to trade down with the Giants is if the Patriots don't want a QB. That doesn't seem likely to me.
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Beane and the Bills gave up two second round picks to get Allen. Schoen and the Giants are going to have to give up at least #6 plus #1s in 2025 and 2026. But otherwise you're dead on!!
Your hyperbole makes you look like an idiot.
Dear God, that was stupid.. Giants flipping witn Pats has the most cost and still nothing like you are proposing.
I keep thinking about Bean's quote and also Schoen saying "Scared money don't make money" last year.
I don't think trading up is reckless. It's Schoen's job to evaluate, and if he has a strong conviction in what he believes, then he should do it. That's why he was hired as a GM—to save this franchise from the mess it's been in for the last 12 years.
Schoen knows this, and it happens all the time in the NFL. If you get the QB right, you're in the driver's seat of your career. We just hope Schoen makes a good decision, and I think Mara will support it.
Trade 1:
Buffalo gets: 12th and 187th overall pick
Cincinnati gets: 21st and 185th overall pick and OT Cordy Glenn
Trade 2:
Buffalo gets: 7th and 255th overall pick
Tampa Bay gets: 12th, 53rd, and 56th overall pick
But carry on, schmapples.
My bad: the Bills got their QB for what amounted to two 2nd round picks and a vet OT they were moving on from anyway. Maybe we could throw in Waller before he retires!
The Bill moved up from 21 to 7, for two second round picks and a solid, if unspectacular starting offensive lineman on a cost controlled contract.
If the Giants decide to move up from 6 into the top 5 they most certainly won't be trading first round picks in 2025 and 2026.
The best scenario for the Giants is for the Vikings to trade up with the Patriots and take a QB, leaving a QB the Giants would be happy with.
Another good scenario would the Pats to take a QB, leaving a QB the Giants would be happy with.
The only scenario that it really makes sense for the Patriots to trade down with the Giants is if the Patriots don't want a QB. That doesn't seem likely to me.
In the scenario where the Vikes trade up with the Patriots and leave a QB that we would be happy with, we may not even need to trade up to #4. We could stick at #6 and get the QB. That's why it is the best scenario.
The best scenario for the Giants is for the Vikings to trade up with the Patriots and take a QB, leaving a QB the Giants would be happy with.
Another good scenario would the Pats to take a QB, leaving a QB the Giants would be happy with.
The only scenario that it really makes sense for the Patriots to trade down with the Giants is if the Patriots don't want a QB. That doesn't seem likely to me.
Not exactly true..If their QB hierarchy is say Daniels, Penix, Nix then if Daniels is gone they move back (BTW they have way more holes than we do) and get their other choice at QB..
One other thing, tbe Pats could move back (say with us) and then have multiple 2's to move back into tbe first if they want to grab say Nix or Pennix...
Giants will not be trading up for McCarthy.
Second to the Giants picking Nabers at 6, I think this is the next most likely outcome.
Especially when the cost to move from 6 to 4 at that point will be pretty manageable.
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Let's say NE selects Maye at 3. Arizona is on the clock at 4, does NYG trade up for McCarthy? I think that's the most likely scenario.
Giants will not be trading up for McCarthy.
You're speaking in an absolute. How do you know this? There is a lot of smoke that NYG likes McCarthy.
If so, I’d love to keep dropping a spot at a time while there are blue chip targets on the board. Keep JJM in reach and then pick him at 8 or 9.
We have no clue what the Giants will have to give up. I would bet a lot of money they won't be giving up 3 first round picks to move up 2 or 3 spots.
Houston was a 3 win team prior to picking CJ Stroud. So I'm not really sure why we can't compare us to Houston. Either way using Carolina or Houston as an example is moronic.
I don't think they are worth giving up what it would take to get to 3.
In 2004 we all knew the Giants wanted Manning and were going to get him but I was fine with all 3 QBs drafted, I don't feel that way about this class at all
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Let's say NE selects Maye at 3. Arizona is on the clock at 4, does NYG trade up for McCarthy? I think that's the most likely scenario.
Giants will not be trading up for McCarthy.
We have no idea if they would trade up for McCarthy. Why are you speaking in absolutes?
You trust the evaluation. No one really anticipated Mahomes or Allen would be elite. You take a chance.
You have no idea how Schoen feels about any QB. He may think McCarthy is the best QB in the draft. Or he may think Maye is. Or maybe he thinks Williams or Daniels are. you have no idea. none of us does.
I doubt he trades significant assets to pick a "meh" QB. I think it's safe to assume if he trades up to higher up in the 1st than 6 for a QB he believes the QB is a future franchise QB. It's his job on the line and I doubt he bets his job for a QB he thinks may be pretty good.
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Of course you trade up for an elite QB but the elite one(s) are out of reach. Do you trade up to 3 or 4 for a QB that might be pretty good but not elite?
You trust the evaluation. No one really anticipated Mahomes or Allen would be elite. You take a chance.
I don't agree with this statement their were several experts and talking heads that loved both same with Lamar but a lot of franchises were behind the times and were in search of that prototypical pocket quarterback.
Evaluation have changed and now we are seeing everyone looking for that style of QB.
Before Mahommes and Lamar, Daniels and Williams would not be top picks.
even last year they used top 30 visits on at least 2 qbs and met with stroud/levis/ar15 at combine.
the only question each year was if someone they had at that grade would be available to them. same question is true this year and if it's true even the 2nd pick isn't fully decided yet then nobody giants included will know until thursday.
remember last year on giants life they thought baltimore was taking banks.
even last year they used top 30 visits on at least 2 qbs and met with stroud/levis/ar15 at combine.
the only question each year was if someone they had at that grade would be available to them. same question is true this year and if it's true even the 2nd pick isn't fully decided yet then nobody giants included will know until thursday.
remember last year on giants life they thought baltimore was taking banks.
I agree 100%
I remember on BBI and listening to draft Niks, Allen had a plus level skill set and was some what of a unicorn in what he could do same with Mahommes I don't see that QB outside of Williams and Daniels and maybe Mayes.
The others could be good starting QBs but not franchise changing which I don't think you trade up and gamble your career on .
Just my opinion.
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since this new regime has arrived with picks #5/7 year 1, the same concept has held true - if they had a chance at what they believed to be next the josh allen they would have taken it.
even last year they used top 30 visits on at least 2 qbs and met with stroud/levis/ar15 at combine.
the only question each year was if someone they had at that grade would be available to them. same question is true this year and if it's true even the 2nd pick isn't fully decided yet then nobody giants included will know until thursday.
remember last year on giants life they thought baltimore was taking banks.
I agree 100%
I remember on BBI and listening to draft Niks, Allen had a plus level skill set and was some what of a unicorn in what he could do same with Mahommes I don't see that QB outside of Williams and Daniels and maybe Mayes.
The others could be good starting QBs but not franchise changing which I don't think you trade up and gamble your career on .
Just my opinion.
i believe schoen when he talks about how much of the decision (gamble) is based on what the player is like in the room, on blackboard, etc.
i see enough on field talent in basically all this year's qbs but i think we need to trust them to get right the same things about makeup they got right choosing josh allen over the more widely popular josh rosen. if 1 of maye or jjm or whoever is really able to grasp the concepts of the offense better than the other one, that would seem like a real big tie breaker if things are otherwise close.
“We’re looking for a team to blow us away, or we’ll just pick our own QB…”
Then I find it hard to believe they have a conviction for one…and so I would think it’s more likely it will go to highest bidder.
The annoying part is the mouth breathers on here who are okay with taking any of the 8 QBs in this draft no questions asked as if they're l going to be phenomenal.
Reality check - like 2, MAYBE 3 are going to be better than backups. It's just the way it goes.
If the Giants have 1 guy they believe in, and you can make it happen DO IT. I'm on board.
But this entire "need to take whatever QB bc QB hell blahblah" is asinine.
The annoying part is the mouth breathers on here who are okay with taking any of the 8 QBs in this draft no questions asked as if they're l going to be phenomenal.
Reality check - like 2, MAYBE 3 are going to be better than backups. It's just the way it goes.
If the Giants have 1 guy they believe in, and you can make it happen DO IT. I'm on board.
But this entire "need to take whatever QB bc QB hell blahblah" is asinine.
It's true. This class will probably produce only a couple QBs that work out.
But my question is: what type of QB do the Giants believe in? They've drafted 3 first round QBs in 45 years, and this is despite being a very poorly quarterbacked team for most of the '90s and for the last decade.
Well we've got Jones under contract for 3 more years, so I guess we're set.
One question - is every guy we draft at every other position the right guy at the right time? Are we applying the same Goldilocks methodology when we draft a guard or safety?
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In comment 16478612 Eric on Li said:
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since this new regime has arrived with picks #5/7 year 1, the same concept has held true - if they had a chance at what they believed to be next the josh allen they would have taken it.
even last year they used top 30 visits on at least 2 qbs and met with stroud/levis/ar15 at combine.
the only question each year was if someone they had at that grade would be available to them. same question is true this year and if it's true even the 2nd pick isn't fully decided yet then nobody giants included will know until thursday.
remember last year on giants life they thought baltimore was taking banks.
I agree 100%
I remember on BBI and listening to draft Niks, Allen had a plus level skill set and was some what of a unicorn in what he could do same with Mahommes I don't see that QB outside of Williams and Daniels and maybe Mayes.
The others could be good starting QBs but not franchise changing which I don't think you trade up and gamble your career on .
Just my opinion.
i believe schoen when he talks about how much of the decision (gamble) is based on what the player is like in the room, on blackboard, etc.
i see enough on field talent in basically all this year's qbs but i think we need to trust them to get right the same things about makeup they got right choosing josh allen over the more widely popular josh rosen. if 1 of maye or jjm or whoever is really able to grasp the concepts of the offense better than the other one, that would seem like a real big tie breaker if things are otherwise close.
That's all great that you understand the system etc but I don't see a QB with those 2 qbs that has the it factor that raises the level of everyone around them and makes a team better. if you trade up and give up picks you better get a guy that can take JAGs and win games.
Extend plays and make something out of nothing.
truly
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In comment 16478518 Sean said:
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Let's say NE selects Maye at 3. Arizona is on the clock at 4, does NYG trade up for McCarthy? I think that's the most likely scenario.
Giants will not be trading up for McCarthy.
You're speaking in an absolute. How do you know this? There is a lot of smoke that NYG likes McCarthy.
Only Ryan is allowed to speak in absolutes, did you forget?
Worst possible outcome in my opinion. For me it’s Maye, WR at 6 or trade down. Trading up for JJM is nuts. But I would do whatever it took to get Maye.