for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

JJ McCarthy’s arm strength

Jay7852 : 4/21/2024 7:40 pm
Opinions on this are all over the place. Someone help me makes sense of it?
I’ve consistently seen he only has a “fastball” and doesn’t have enough arm to “layer” throws. Also seen he doesn’t throw a great deep ball. In the other hand I saw he throw 61 MPH at the combine, only 1 mph slower than Josh Allen I believe (no clue how relevant that is). Supposedly he throws well on the move. Someone smarter than me please help me get a better idea
That is my biggest unknown  
gridirony : 4/21/2024 7:48 pm : link
with JJM. All of the tape that I've seen shows him stepping into throws, where he does have a very good arm. Throwing with velocity while flat-footed or while having to back peddle is very questionable, to me.
It’s the trajectory of the pass  
Rudy5757 : 4/21/2024 7:50 pm : link
So a mid tier pass probably has a LB low and a safety/cb high, throwing on a line drive will get it tipped by the LB so you have to throw it higher than the LB but drop it before it get to a safety. On an arc with velocity.
I've never heard anyone criticize his arm strength...  
Capt. Don : 4/21/2024 7:55 pm : link
Actually, the criticism is that everything is a fastball.
McCarthy  
Archer : 4/21/2024 7:55 pm : link
McCarthy's arm strength.
In 2020 when McCarthy was in high school he was warming up before a workout and threw the ball 80-plus yards.


Link - ( New Window )
He has a strong arm,  
BleedBlue46 : 4/21/2024 7:57 pm : link
But he needs to rework his throwing motion which will improve his touch and accuracy on intermediate to deep throws. This is what Josh Allen did in 2019 to take his game to the next level. I'd imagine Daboll might be thinking about this.
This is what McCarthy looks like...  
bw in dc : 4/21/2024 7:59 pm : link
throwing a football...

RE: It’s the trajectory of the pass  
Del Shofner : 4/21/2024 7:59 pm : link
In comment 16478556 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
So a mid tier pass probably has a LB low and a safety/cb high, throwing on a line drive will get it tipped by the LB so you have to throw it higher than the LB but drop it before it get to a safety. On an arc with velocity.


That's what I've read too. It's not his arm strength, it's his touch on passes like what you describe.
There is no argument  
Sy'56 : 4/21/2024 8:01 pm : link
His arm is stronger than it needs to be.

By a wide margin.
RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
BleedBlue46 : 4/21/2024 8:03 pm : link
In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:
Quote:
throwing a football...



Josh Allen and McCarthy had very similar throwing motions as prospects.
I'm Sure  
nochance : 4/21/2024 8:06 pm : link
The Giants scouts and management have gone over this very thoroughly. You'll know at the draft
Watch the Kurt Warner YouTube breakdowns  
GFAN52 : 4/21/2024 8:07 pm : link
he explains some passing mechanics on McCarthy. As pointed out above he needs to work on dropping his throws over the defense to his receivers. Also, by throwing one speed fastballs on most of his passes, it makes it harder for his receivers to make catches, instead of taking some speed off on some of his easier passes.
RE: RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
bw in dc : 4/21/2024 8:12 pm : link
In comment 16478580 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:


Quote:


throwing a football...





Josh Allen and McCarthy had very similar throwing motions as prospects.


I guess.

At Wyoming, Allen was throwing lasers off balance, flat-footed, fading away, rolling out left, rolling out right...whatever. He was/is just a different class of thrower compared to McCarthy.



RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
uconngiant : 4/21/2024 8:16 pm : link
In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:
Quote:
throwing a football...

Yes we get it you don't like him
Oh man!  
Jay7852 : 4/21/2024 8:16 pm : link
So he has to use his whole body to make throws….next post says he can throw 80 yards lol not the consensus I was looking for haha

Would love to start a poll :

Who has the stronger arm

1)JJ McCarthy

2) Daniel Jones






The QB that had the greatest pro-day the world has ever seen  
ThomasG : 4/21/2024 8:18 pm : link
should have enough arm strength.
I don't believe the drill where JJM was measured at 61 mph  
shyster : 4/21/2024 8:18 pm : link
had the same measuring protocol as the drill where Josh Allen was measured throwing 62 mph to each side of the field and, when it comes to measuring ball velocity, the protocol can matter quite a bit.

There's video from 2023 that shows Anthony Richardson throwing 60 mph in the same "straight ahead" drill that 2024 video shows JJM throwing 61 mph, but the Ourlads combine velocity data for 2023 only gives Richardson credit for throwing 53 mph and 54 mph to each side of the field.

There are a bunch of QBs throwing 60+ mph in the "straight ahead" drills that are available for the 2023 and 2024 combines on youtube.

Velocity data is useful as apples-to-apples when you know you are comparing QBs being measured in the same way. When Trevor Lawrence was at Clemson, there was a report that he threw 64 mph. He probably did, but not with the same protocol as at the combine (historically speaking).
RE: RE: RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
BleedBlue46 : 4/21/2024 8:19 pm : link
In comment 16478591 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16478580 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:


Quote:


throwing a football...





Josh Allen and McCarthy had very similar throwing motions as prospects.



I guess.

At Wyoming, Allen was throwing lasers off balance, flat-footed, fading away, rolling out left, rolling out right...whatever. He was/is just a different class of thrower compared to McCarthy.




Never said anything about arm strength, they had similar throwing motions and similar questions in their games due to those throwing motions.
RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
pjcas18 : 4/21/2024 8:20 pm : link
In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:
Quote:
throwing a football...



Is that the Stan Gable javelin throw or Lamar Latrelle?

I  
g56blue10 : 4/21/2024 8:37 pm : link
Understand where the poster is coming from. I have read things in posts saying he had an avg arm. Nothing great. Which seemed to contradict what thought was the case
RE: There is no argument  
jvm52106 : 4/21/2024 9:07 pm : link
In comment 16478576 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
His arm is stronger than it needs to be.

By a wide margin.


Thank you Sy..
RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
Chris684 : 4/21/2024 9:18 pm : link
In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:
Quote:
throwing a football...



I’m just curious. And this is a serious question, your opinions on these quarterbacks are so strong and presented in a way that comes across more as fact, do you have any background in football at any serious level be it playing, scouting or coaching?
Turning around to hand the ball off  
AROCK1000 : 4/21/2024 9:23 pm : link
Must make a guys arm stronger than I thought
I could see it making ones hips stronger
Maybe more flexibility...
RE: RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
Jaenyg : 4/21/2024 9:40 pm : link
In comment 16478603 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:


Quote:


throwing a football...





Is that the Stan Gable javelin throw or Lamar Latrelle?


Are you saying JJM is limp wristed? 😂
In this draft class  
SleepyOwl : 4/21/2024 9:53 pm : link
He has the sixth best arm behind;

Williams
Daniels
Penix
Maye
Milton
RE: In this draft class  
JT039 : 4/21/2024 9:53 pm : link
In comment 16478677 SleepyOwl said:
Quote:
He has the sixth best arm behind;

Williams
Daniels
Penix
Maye
Milton


Based off what?
RE: There is no argument  
SleepyOwl : 4/21/2024 9:56 pm : link
In comment 16478576 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
His arm is stronger than it needs to be.

By a wide margin.


Hey Sy!!!! What NFL comp would you make in JJ? I’m thinking maybe Lock in terms of arm strength… I have Lock slightly ahead though just based on film.
RE: RE: In this draft class  
SleepyOwl : 4/21/2024 9:57 pm : link
In comment 16478679 JT039 said:
Quote:
In comment 16478677 SleepyOwl said:


Quote:


He has the sixth best arm behind;

Williams
Daniels
Penix
Maye
Milton



Based off what?


Film
RE: RE: RE: In this draft class  
JT039 : 4/21/2024 9:58 pm : link
In comment 16478684 SleepyOwl said:
Quote:
In comment 16478679 JT039 said:


Quote:


In comment 16478677 SleepyOwl said:


Quote:


He has the sixth best arm behind;

Williams
Daniels
Penix
Maye
Milton



Based off what?



Film


Hmm. Numbers suggest elsewise but sounds good.
If by numbers you mean  
SleepyOwl : 4/21/2024 10:02 pm : link
The combine “velocity” test … that is the most deceiving test throughout the entire combine. Trust your eyes.
RE: Oh man!  
HardTruth : 4/21/2024 10:14 pm : link
In comment 16478597 Jay7852 said:
Quote:
So he has to use his whole body to make throws….next post says he can throw 80 yards lol not the consensus I was looking for haha

Would love to start a poll :

Who has the stronger arm

1)JJ McCarthy

2) Daniel Jones







Jones threw 54 mph at combine
RE: Turning around to hand the ball off  
RCPhoenix : 4/21/2024 10:15 pm : link
In comment 16478660 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
Must make a guys arm stronger than I thought
I could see it making ones hips stronger
Maybe more flexibility...


You and bw are so damn predictable on any JJM thread. I almost want the Giants to draft him just to watch the two of you bitch about him for years. All of BBI knows you two don’t like JJM. And the comments on him handing the ball off ignore, among other things, his performance on 3rd down.
McCarthy  
Archer : 4/21/2024 10:16 pm : link
McCarthy has plenty of arm strength.
He can make all the throws.

Some QBs have stronger arms.
But you do not draft QBs based on arm strength.

You draft QBs based on a myriad of traits and not exclusively because they can throw well.

Maye and Penix may have stronger arms but that does not make them better QB prospects.

Especially in Penix's case, he comes from a team where they built a team around his strengths. Washington runs an offense that is similar in style to what Tennessee runs.

Penix was not asked to do much. He did not have to read defenses, he did not throw to the middle of the field, he did not have to extend plays, and simplistically he was asked to throw the ball downfield.

So all he needed to be successful was a strong arm.

And he did not have to be accurate because he had premiere receivers who won 75-80 % of contested catches.

Without other traits, Pennix will not succeed in the NFL.





RE: RE: Turning around to hand the ball off  
AROCK1000 : 4/21/2024 10:25 pm : link
In comment 16478699 RCPhoenix said:
Quote:
In comment 16478660 AROCK1000 said:


Quote:


Must make a guys arm stronger than I thought
I could see it making ones hips stronger
Maybe more flexibility...



You and bw are so damn predictable on any JJM thread. I almost want the Giants to draft him just to watch the two of you bitch about him for years. All of BBI knows you two don’t like JJM. And the comments on him handing the ball off ignore, among other things, his performance on 3rd down.

Hail Hail
RE: RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
bw in dc : 4/21/2024 10:30 pm : link
In comment 16478658 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:


Quote:


throwing a football...





I’m just curious. And this is a serious question, your opinions on these quarterbacks are so strong and presented in a way that comes across more as fact, do you have any background in football at any serious level be it playing, scouting or coaching?


Yes, I do have strong opinions, but I try to keep the facts side based on numerical performance and measurables available.

And I constantly say how hard it is to project how any prospect is going to perform going forward. Which is why I try to focus on physical attributes and give much less weight to other areas - e.g. decision making - because I believe those won't be known until the lights are on for a real NFL game. The NFL brand of football is such a different game than college (although the NFL has adopted many more offensive concepts from the college game).

I was a D1 scholarship athlete, but I did not play football. But have friends in the recruiting side of the game, college coaching and the media. So, I have been very fortunate to be exposed to some interesting people in the game.

RE: RE: RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
Chris684 : 4/21/2024 10:33 pm : link
In comment 16478712 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16478658 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:


Quote:


throwing a football...





I’m just curious. And this is a serious question, your opinions on these quarterbacks are so strong and presented in a way that comes across more as fact, do you have any background in football at any serious level be it playing, scouting or coaching?



Yes, I do have strong opinions, but I try to keep the facts side based on numerical performance and measurables available.

And I constantly say how hard it is to project how any prospect is going to perform going forward. Which is why I try to focus on physical attributes and give much less weight to other areas - e.g. decision making - because I believe those won't be known until the lights are on for a real NFL game. The NFL brand of football is such a different game than college (although the NFL has adopted many more offensive concepts from the college game).

I was a D1 scholarship athlete, but I did not play football. But have friends in the recruiting side of the game, college coaching and the media. So, I have been very fortunate to be exposed to some interesting people in the game.


Fair enough.
RE: RE: There is no argument  
PatersonPlank : 4/21/2024 10:34 pm : link
In comment 16478683 SleepyOwl said:
Quote:
In comment 16478576 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


His arm is stronger than it needs to be.

By a wide margin.



Hey Sy!!!! What NFL comp would you make in JJ? I’m thinking maybe Lock in terms of arm strength… I have Lock slightly ahead though just based on film.


If you look up the Sy's reviews, he has Rich Gannon as the comp for JJM and Joe Burrow as the upside potential.
RE: RE: Turning around to hand the ball off  
bw in dc : 4/21/2024 10:35 pm : link
In comment 16478699 RCPhoenix said:
Quote:
In comment 16478660 AROCK1000 said:


Quote:


Must make a guys arm stronger than I thought
I could see it making ones hips stronger
Maybe more flexibility...



You and bw are so damn predictable on any JJM thread. I almost want the Giants to draft him just to watch the two of you bitch about him for years. All of BBI knows you two don’t like JJM. And the comments on him handing the ball off ignore, among other things, his performance on 3rd down.


I don't like McCarthy drafted as a lottery pick. Lottery picks should, IMV, be prospects who have great physical skills and are dynamic. That's been my point all along.

But I have repeatedly said if he's more talented than Jones. So, if we do end up with him, I can live with it. Anything to move on from Jones.
One thing with Penix  
uconngiant : 4/21/2024 10:38 pm : link
He had three NFL wide receivers and sometimes was able to be bailed out by the three of them.

I like JJM as I watched how he progresses through the receivers and make the right decision especially on third down
RE: RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
Pete in MD : 4/21/2024 10:38 pm : link
In comment 16478603 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:


Quote:


throwing a football...





Is that the Stan Gable javelin throw or Lamar Latrelle?

Limp wristed throwing style?
Meadowlands…..  
thrunthrublue : 4/21/2024 11:02 pm : link
Icy driving rain, 30mph gusts…..November……draped in nasty defenders paid to knock the sh%t out of him and don’t throw an int, get your receivers blasted….then, and only then no matter the qb, you will know if you have a Phil Simms….or sadly….a Daniel Jones.
Given all the recent injury history with the Giants  
Rudy5757 : 4/21/2024 11:17 pm : link
I’m not sure how anyone on this board would want Penix. I think the kid had a lot of talent and all, but he doesn’t seem long for the NFL.
McCarhy does not have the arm talent of Williams or Maye  
Darwinian : 4/21/2024 11:24 pm : link
Those two will enter the NFL with top-6 to top-8 arm ability. McCarthy, whether it is due to mechanics or natural arm talent, isn't in their zip code, as a thrower. He's just not. If you haven't heard that before then you haven't read or listened to very much pre-draft analysis. Almost every analyst I have listened to has observed it. And if you think he has elite arm talent you will be sorely disappointed if he becomes the QB of the Giants. Like Jones he has trouble with deep outs and every commenter mentions he has trouble with deep ball accuracy. Those throws are effortless for Williams and Maye is pretty good too.

He also isn't nearly as good a thrower as Penix either.

RE: RE: Oh man!  
shyster : 4/21/2024 11:44 pm : link
In comment 16478697 HardTruth said:
Quote:
In comment 16478597 Jay7852 said:


Quote:


So he has to use his whole body to make throws….next post says he can throw 80 yards lol not the consensus I was looking for haha

Would love to start a poll :

Who has the stronger arm

1)JJ McCarthy

2) Daniel Jones









Jones threw 54 mph at combine


As I posted above, I don't believe JJM in 2024 and Jones in 2019 were measured with the same protocol doing the same drill.

As evidence of this, Anthony Richardson is shown on youtube throwing 60 mph at the 2023 combine in the same "straight ahead" drill that JJM is shown throwing 61 mph in 2024.

But the Ourlads combine data for 2023 and previous years shows Richardson throwing 53 mph to one side of the field and 54 mph to the other: the same as Jones in 2019.

Again, because of the significant difference measuring protocol can make, you only really know that you are comparing apples to apples when you are comparing QBs at the same combine doing the same drill.


ourlads - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Oh man!  
Darwinian : 4/22/2024 12:11 am : link
In comment 16478747 shyster said:
Quote:
In comment 16478697 HardTruth said:


Quote:


In comment 16478597 Jay7852 said:


Quote:


So he has to use his whole body to make throws….next post says he can throw 80 yards lol not the consensus I was looking for haha

Would love to start a poll :

Who has the stronger arm

1)JJ McCarthy

2) Daniel Jones









Jones threw 54 mph at combine



As I posted above, I don't believe JJM in 2024 and Jones in 2019 were measured with the same protocol doing the same drill.

As evidence of this, Anthony Richardson is shown on youtube throwing 60 mph at the 2023 combine in the same "straight ahead" drill that JJM is shown throwing 61 mph in 2024.

But the Ourlads combine data for 2023 and previous years shows Richardson throwing 53 mph to one side of the field and 54 mph to the other: the same as Jones in 2019.

Again, because of the significant difference measuring protocol can make, you only really know that you are comparing apples to apples when you are comparing QBs at the same combine doing the same drill.
ourlads - ( New Window )


these velo numbers appear very misleading overall and I would avoid them when comparing QBs.
RE: Given all the recent injury history with the Giants  
Darwinian : 4/22/2024 12:12 am : link
In comment 16478743 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
I’m not sure how anyone on this board would want Penix. I think the kid had a lot of talent and all, but he doesn’t seem long for the NFL.


As long as his arm is sound, I'm not worried about the injury history that much. ACLs can be repaired.
RE: RE: RE: Turning around to hand the ball off  
RCPhoenix : 4/22/2024 2:42 am : link
In comment 16478720 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16478699 RCPhoenix said:


Quote:


In comment 16478660 AROCK1000 said:


Quote:


Must make a guys arm stronger than I thought
I could see it making ones hips stronger
Maybe more flexibility...



You and bw are so damn predictable on any JJM thread. I almost want the Giants to draft him just to watch the two of you bitch about him for years. All of BBI knows you two don’t like JJM. And the comments on him handing the ball off ignore, among other things, his performance on 3rd down.



I don't like McCarthy drafted as a lottery pick. Lottery picks should, IMV, be prospects who have great physical skills and are dynamic. That's been my point all along.

But I have repeatedly said if he's more talented than Jones. So, if we do end up with him, I can live with it. Anything to move on from Jones.


We agree that he’s better than Jones.
Kid has an arm...  
bLiTz 2k : 4/22/2024 6:58 am : link
He's like Uncle Rico out there...needs to show touch and trajectory in the NFL tho.
RE: This is what McCarthy looks like...  
Formerly TD : 4/22/2024 7:01 am : link
In comment 16478572 bw in dc said:
Quote:
throwing a football...



I laughed hard at this.
I have been critical of the Giants drafting JJM  
Mike from Ohio : 4/22/2024 8:42 am : link
But it is not because he doesn't have all the physical traits he needs to succeed. He has a plus arm when it comes to generating power to make all the necessary throws.

The question about layering his throws is different than arm strength. He also, to my mind, generates a lot of his power through an extended motion. Those are things that will have to get cleaned up for the NFL, which is why I see him as more of a guy that will need to sit at least a year if not more in the NFL.

The physical traits are absolutely there to work with. The question in my mind is can he adapt his raw skills skills to the NFL? Can he get better about making decisions? If he can, he will be very successful. In my mind those are just big questions for a top of round 1 pick.
I don't get people  
Jay on the Island : 4/22/2024 9:58 am : link
who claim McCarthy has a weak or average arm. He can let it rip and his arm will only get stronger as he gets as he adds muscle to his frame.
Back to the Corner