NYG 100 - Steve Owen

have been a ton of "Mt. Rushmore" threads for Giants on BBI over the years.

There is no way you leave Owen off any such discussion.

Eric is absolutely right. Owens is the foundation of all Giant-dom.

the Giants may not have survived. Aside from the Depression and WWII years, there were incursions from rival leagues that threatened the Giants financially. The NY Yankees of the AAFC (1946-1949) nearly bankrupted the Giants. Coming out that and, and in infusion of AAFC talent, Owen was able to devise and successfully deploy the famous Umbrella Defense to conquer the seemingly unbeatable Cleveland Browns twice in 1950, including the first ever shutout of that franchise.

Through all the ups and downs Owen gave the Giants some semblance of stability.

In comment 16479433 truebluelarry said:

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the Giants may not have survived. Aside from the Depression and WWII years, there were incursions from rival leagues that threatened the Giants financially. The NY Yankees of the AAFC (1946-1949) nearly bankrupted the Giants. Coming out that and, and in infusion of AAFC talent, Owen was able to devise and successfully deploy the famous Umbrella Defense to conquer the seemingly unbeatable Cleveland Browns twice in 1950, including the first ever shutout of that franchise. Through all the ups and downs Owen gave the Giants some semblance of stability.

Plus throw in the championships.

But beyond all of that, look at how long his shadow loomed over the entire franchise. Parcells and Coughlin look like blips on the radar in terms of tenure.

gambling mess. The Giants and pro football were on shaky ground and Stout Steve helped with the rescue.
I always believed he was disgusted when the Mara’s went super cheap on the new contract for his star, Arnie Weinmeister, and retired just as Arnie went to the CFL.

In comment 16479487 carpoon said:

Quote:

gambling mess. The Giants and pro football were on shaky ground and Stout Steve helped with the rescue. I always believed he was disgusted when the Mara’s went super cheap on the new contract for his star, Arnie Weinmeister, and retired just as Arnie went to the CFL.

He was taking a lot of crap for being too old fashioned the last couple of years, particularly 1952-53, with regards to offensive strategy. Owen never quite grasped the nuances of effectively running the T-Formation (though he was quite adepts at stopping it from the defensive side) as the Giants still were one of the few teams clinging to Single Wing football (the Giants variation of that being the A-Formation). Also, some of the younger players, like Frank Gifford, weren't fond of his style. They thought his philosophy was stuck in the 1920s. Owen coached the Giants for 23 seasons, his course had run out, just like Belichick's did in New England. It happens to them all, even the GOATs.

coordinators?

In comment 16479499 truebluelarry said:

Quote:

In comment 16479487 carpoon said: Quote: gambling mess. The Giants and pro football were on shaky ground and Stout Steve helped with the rescue. I always believed he was disgusted when the Mara’s went super cheap on the new contract for his star, Arnie Weinmeister, and retired just as Arnie went to the CFL. He was taking a lot of crap for being too old fashioned the last couple of years, particularly 1952-53, with regards to offensive strategy. Owen never quite grasped the nuances of effectively running the T-Formation (though he was quite adepts at stopping it from the defensive side) as the Giants still were one of the few teams clinging to Single Wing football (the Giants variation of that being the A-Formation). Also, some of the younger players, like Frank Gifford, weren't fond of his style. They thought his philosophy was stuck in the 1920s. Owen coached the Giants for 23 seasons, his course had run out, just like Belichick's did in New England. It happens to them all, even the GOATs.

Actually, they did mix the A and the T quite a bit and they got Conerly because he was essentially a T qb.In ‘50 and ‘51 his system worked quite well and he had an all pro fb in Eddie Price.Sportswriters voiced their dissatisfaction a few years later, probably from conversations with some younger players, but they played more T than you might think in his last 5 years or so.

In comment 16479733 Ira said:

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coordinators?

No, that was Jim Lee Howell who took over after Owen left.

In comment 16479753 carpoon said:

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In comment 16479499 truebluelarry said: Quote: In comment 16479487 carpoon said: Quote: gambling mess. The Giants and pro football were on shaky ground and Stout Steve helped with the rescue. I always believed he was disgusted when the Mara’s went super cheap on the new contract for his star, Arnie Weinmeister, and retired just as Arnie went to the CFL. He was taking a lot of crap for being too old fashioned the last couple of years, particularly 1952-53, with regards to offensive strategy. Owen never quite grasped the nuances of effectively running the T-Formation (though he was quite adepts at stopping it from the defensive side) as the Giants still were one of the few teams clinging to Single Wing football (the Giants variation of that being the A-Formation). Also, some of the younger players, like Frank Gifford, weren't fond of his style. They thought his philosophy was stuck in the 1920s. Owen coached the Giants for 23 seasons, his course had run out, just like Belichick's did in New England. It happens to them all, even the GOATs. Actually, they did mix the A and the T quite a bit and they got Conerly because he was essentially a T qb.In ‘50 and ‘51 his system worked quite well and he had an all pro fb in Eddie Price.Sportswriters voiced their dissatisfaction a few years later, probably from conversations with some younger players, but they played more T than you might think in his last 5 years or so.

I don't think that's true, maybe Larry can chime in, but I'm pretty sure Conerly was an A formation QB, and the main reason that Allie Sherman was hired by the Giants was to teach the T formation to Conerly. Sherman was considered an expert in the T formation and an innovative offensive mind.

In comment 16479753 carpoon said:

Quote:

In comment 16479499 truebluelarry said: Quote: In comment 16479487 carpoon said: Quote: gambling mess. The Giants and pro football were on shaky ground and Stout Steve helped with the rescue. I always believed he was disgusted when the Mara’s went super cheap on the new contract for his star, Arnie Weinmeister, and retired just as Arnie went to the CFL. He was taking a lot of crap for being too old fashioned the last couple of years, particularly 1952-53, with regards to offensive strategy. Owen never quite grasped the nuances of effectively running the T-Formation (though he was quite adepts at stopping it from the defensive side) as the Giants still were one of the few teams clinging to Single Wing football (the Giants variation of that being the A-Formation). Also, some of the younger players, like Frank Gifford, weren't fond of his style. They thought his philosophy was stuck in the 1920s. Owen coached the Giants for 23 seasons, his course had run out, just like Belichick's did in New England. It happens to them all, even the GOATs. Actually, they did mix the A and the T quite a bit and they got Conerly because he was essentially a T qb.In ‘50 and ‘51 his system worked quite well and he had an all pro fb in Eddie Price.Sportswriters voiced their dissatisfaction a few years later, probably from conversations with some younger players, but they played more T than you might think in his last 5 years or so.

I have some pretty good copy on the mix-and-match schemes from 1949-1953 game programs and media guides.
I'll have to take some time to dig them up and scan them to share here.
Conerly was the A-formation QB, as he'd played the single Wing at Ole Miss.
The Giants brought in Allie Sherman as the OC in 1949 exclusively to teach Conerly the T-Formation but he struggled to pick it up.
They Brought in Travis Tidwell in 1950 to play the T and they would alternate starts, or sometimes during a game depending on who they were facing and what scheme they preferred in the moment.
for instance in the Conerly started the game at Baltimore on
11/19/50 and played poorly as the Giants fell behind 20-0. Enter Tidwell and the t-Formation the the Giants romped 55-20!
This was a week after the Giants steamrolled the Chicago Cardinals 51-21 at the Polo Grounds where Conerly and the A-Formation went all the way.
Tidwell didn't play as much in 1951 and the Giants tried just about everyone they could in '52 & '53 at QB (including Frank Gifford & Tom Landry) alongside Conerly.
The full commitment to the T-Formation didn't occur until 1954 with Howell & Vince Lombardi.

I'll see what I can find at home tonight and try to share some of it here tomorrow (if I have the time). It's really interesting.

or so, right after they signed Conerly. They ran a lot of T from then on.I watched them run it in person.

last night: game program from 1950 and media guides from 1951, 1952 & 1953.
I have a busy morning but I will scan them in and post here later today when I have a little bit of time.

In comment 16479798 carpoon said:

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or so, right after they signed Conerly. They ran a lot of T from then on.I watched them run it in person.

wow, maybe you met my dad back then LOL.

1950 Game Program Giants vs Cleveland on Oct 22 at the Polo Grounds

Can the Giants do it again? (lot of good names in here!)
https://i.imgur.com/O6noZV4.png
Conerly & Tidwell
https://i.imgur.com/S3Yu310.png
Owen & his staff (which included Allie Sherman and Jim Lee Howell)
https://i.imgur.com/0NK2cUm.png

1951 Media Guide

Owen and discussion on the A and T formations
https://i.imgur.com/LMu2CK7.png
Conerly & Tidwell and the Umbrella Defense
https://i.imgur.com/fDbph9C.png

1952 Media Guide

Owen, A and T formations, and new faces Kyle Rote & Frank Gifford.
Regarding offensive schemes, Owen has an absolutely fantastic line that comes right out of a classic late '40s Film Noir: "Systems are like ladies fashions, but men don't change."
https://i.imgur.com/BQfW5MI.png
Owen's All-Time Giants team - he makes allowances for A-Formation and T-Formation personnel
https://i.imgur.com/B6HItJp.png

1953 Media Guide (Owen's final season as Giants coach)

Owen and A and T Formations (and the new Swing-T)
https://i.imgur.com/RsqBksY.png
Conerly and Eddie Price
https://i.imgur.com/cRpcj1q.png

Enjoy!

from the game program Giants at NY Bulldogs 9/30/49 and it goes into pretty good detail on the Giants initial attempt at transitioning from the A-Formation to the T-Formation.

https://i.imgur.com/IA4BQYP.jpeg

Later in the year the program from the 12/4/49 game against the Eagles offers an assessment on how the Giants did with the T-Formation.

https://i.imgur.com/7fipNCo.jpeg

\Despite the optimism expressed for 1950s prospects and praise bestowed on Conerly, they Giants drafted Travis Tidwell in the first round in the draft to run the t-Formation.