you don’t like the options (completely fair) so that means the pick is forced (unreasonable). Should have just put that in your OP.
True, I don't. With so many holes trading up to take a QB just to get one the pundits like will require assets needed to build around him (hence forced), recipe for failure in my opinion. If one falls to us at 6 the front office is enamored with is fine...
Nope. If they draft Nix at 6, great. If they trade down to a point where they know they can get one of them, great. If they have information that they can draft either at 47, great.
Alternatively if they trade up for one of the other guys, great. If trading up means throwing in a player currently on the roster or a future draft pick, great.
They've had three years. They shouldn't have left it this long.
If they are not in a position to draft an quarterbacks that they truly believe in this year, then they should pass on a quarterback. If next year is a weak quarterback class, there's nothing wrong with waiting until 2026 to draft your guy. Those two years will be gone before you know it.
If they are not in a position to draft an quarterbacks that they truly believe in this year, then they should pass on a quarterback. If next year is a weak quarterback class, there's nothing wrong with waiting until 2026 to draft your guy. Those two years will be gone before you know it.
If they are not in a position to draft an quarterbacks that they truly believe in this year, then they should pass on a quarterback. If next year is a weak quarterback class, there's nothing wrong with waiting until 2026 to draft your guy. Those two years will be gone before you know it.
What does "a quarterback they truly believe in" look like?
Does this approach apply to other positions as well? What if a draft provides zero players they truly believe in? Do they bypass that draft entirely?
Do the Giants not have a responsibility to try to work with and adapt to the materials that are actually available to them?
If they are not in a position to draft an quarterbacks that they truly believe in this year, then they should pass on a quarterback. If next year is a weak quarterback class, there's nothing wrong with waiting until 2026 to draft your guy. Those two years will be gone before you know it.
At 6, sure. But the whole draft? I don’t agree and think that’s malpractice. There’s no reason to not take a qb at 47 or 70 or use both to trade up a bit. I don’t buy that they won’t like every QB available to them near where they are picking next.
If they are not in a position to draft an quarterbacks that they truly believe in this year, then they should pass on a quarterback. If next year is a weak quarterback class, there's nothing wrong with waiting until 2026 to draft your guy. Those two years will be gone before you know it.
What does "a quarterback they truly believe in" look like?
Does this approach apply to other positions as well? What if a draft provides zero players they truly believe in? Do they bypass that draft entirely?
Do the Giants not have a responsibility to try to work with and adapt to the materials that are actually available to them?
It means they do not project him to be a high level starter in the NFL. If pick 6 comes along and the best grade they have on any of the remaining QBs is a 3rd round grade would you still want to pick him? First round picks are huge assets, you don't use them on players you don't think will be any good.
And the scope and scale of the 2023 fuckup is truly coming into focus for all of us. If we weren't paying Jones maybe we could have been in on Kirk Cousins, for example.
The 2023 fuckup was colossal, and shapes the whole time period.
if not for another QB in 2023? Schoen deviated from the plan he came in the door with because he saw a guy throw 15TD passes? Or did he deviate because he was told to deviate?
Both of those suggest we hired the wrong guy. Now it seems we just have to let Giants Football run its course to Mara throws a chair and fires everyone and we start again with more people Bill Belichik suggests would be awesome hires...or BB himself!
It is tiring watching this team not only have no success, but having no plan for success.
Schoen shortened his own window by giving Jones that contract. In my view he has got to find a way to fix that or see if ESPN will hire him.
2022... they did not extend the 5th year option, paving the way for Jones' departure. They brought Tyrod Taylor in for the bridge.
2023... this was the fuck up. I'm still not convinced ownership didn't weigh in here, but Schoen has to take responsibility for it.
2024... all signs point to them admitting to the mistake.
If you tell me those things didn't happen, then we just see things differently.
This is the full story on QB. While I’m not thrilled with the Jones re-signing, I have to give Schoen credit for at least making it a deal they can get out of after two years vs. 3-5.
why did we hire the wrong guy? Genuinely curious how that works.
Maybe we hired the right guy who talked him out of a longer term deal with more guarantees?
Because then we hired a guy who can't convince his boss why his emotional attachments to players are bad for the team. Effective leaders manage up.
💯
He just did, that’s why Saquon is gone. It’s also why Saquon wasn’t signed to a long term deal last year. I’m not sold on the Mara meddling theory, I think Schoen and Daboll thought Jones was developing, didn’t think they could land anyone in last years draft, and signed Jones to a deal that they could escape in two years if he shit the bed.
he was broken in 2020/2021 too, thats why they declined the 5yo.
im not saying he will be unbroken but it's not inconceivable. he appears to be running sprints with team already, i was skeptical he'd be healthy for camp but if he is i think it's possible if not likely he beats out a rookie + lock.
i know there's the injury guarantee risk, but id personally have no issue risking $12m if he wins the job and plays well enough that they can trade him instead of cutting him. if he plays like he did in 2022 he can probably bring back a day 2 pick (that they may be down from moving up for maye or jjm). but im also of the belief that it is helpful for rookie qbs to not be forced in day 1.
why did we hire the wrong guy? Genuinely curious how that works.
Maybe we hired the right guy who talked him out of a longer term deal with more guarantees?
Because then we hired a guy who can't convince his boss why his emotional attachments to players are bad for the team. Effective leaders manage up.
💯
He just did, that’s why Saquon is gone. It’s also why Saquon wasn’t signed to a long term deal last year. I’m not sold on the Mara meddling theory, I think Schoen and Daboll thought Jones was developing, didn’t think they could land anyone in last years draft, and signed Jones to a deal that they could escape in two years if he shit the bed.
I think you are correct, which in my mind makes Schoen's mistake worse than simply not being able to talk his boss off the ledge.
Schoen and Daboll turned a feel good 2022 season into a left turn into a dark alley.
he was broken in 2020/2021 too, thats why they declined the 5yo.
im not saying he will be unbroken but it's not inconceivable. he appears to be running sprints with team already, i was skeptical he'd be healthy for camp but if he is i think it's possible if not likely he beats out a rookie + lock.
i know there's the injury guarantee risk, but id personally have no issue risking $12m if he wins the job and plays well enough that they can trade him instead of cutting him. if he plays like he did in 2022 he can probably bring back a day 2 pick (that they may be down from moving up for maye or jjm). but im also of the belief that it is helpful for rookie qbs to not be forced in day 1.
And hopefully that is why we got Lock
Let the (hopefully) rookie sit and learn while DJ is holding a clipboard as not to risk the injury guarantee
Jones succeeded (to the extent he did) in 2022 by primarily being an option for designed runs. Do you think that is wise with his injuries and injury guarantee (and the way the rest of the league caught up to it in 2022)?
This is coming from someone who isn't the biggest Joe fan in the world, but I'm willing to give him a mulligan on the Jones deal. It was, in essence, his first real offseason as the GM, the team was coming off a postseason win for the first since XLVI, & Jones had a solid season-not the All Pro like season that ryan & others make it out to be, but alas-& I bet there was a belief that with more Dabs tutelage/upgrade @ the skill positions (Waller for example before the draft, reupping Darius, drafting Hyatt, etc.) he could take "the" leap. Obviously that sure AF didn't happen & he looked completely lost. I don't want to hear the excuses either about Jones. He sucked. When you're getting paid $40 million & rookie CBs are telling the press after a game that they know you stare down your first option, stop.
&-again, not defending Joe-but I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Mara let his feelings on Jones be known. Hell, all Joe had to do was pick up a newspaper or Google everything John has said about Jones, which is honestly something-Mara's love for DJ-I'd pay solid $ to get a deep dive into. Joe was-at the time-still a green GM & never forget that a lot of these guys are making moves outta self preservation.
Let's be hopeful that Joe knows he fucked up. I think he has. As for Mara, maybe the injuries caused him to see the light. Again, I'm praying that it has.
All this said, this organization is completely fucking lost if Jones sees the field this fall considering that injury clause. Completely lost. I'd cut Jones the second he passes a physical. And if its Lock, DeVito, & whoever, whatever. At least we're not risking a complete disaster in Jones getting injured & then we're on the hook for an additional $23 million in dead cap in '25.
I think you are correct, which in my mind makes Schoen's mistake worse than simply not being able to talk his boss off the ledge.
Schoen and Daboll turned a feel good 2022 season into a left turn into a dark alley.
Mike apologies if this is redundant and something we've gone back and forth on before, but the dark alley is way overstated. they gave jones a 2 year guarantee instead of 1 (which would have been a broadly acceptable consensus even with hindsight).
they got 2 extra option years that would have been below market the way the QB market has gone (and was easily predicted to go).
as i mentioned above if they can somehow get him back to just the 2022 level (an unknown i would not feel comfortable better either way) his remaining 2 years 75m (0 gtd) would i think actually hold decent trade value (day 2 pick).
i would rather maximize draft picks >>> cap space any day of the week. the 2025 base at $30m lower than the 2024 base of 35.5m always looked like a year set up to possibly artificially increase his trade value (pretty sure i made that comment at the time).
We can all agree they need a quarterback in this draft
The only question is, who and when? The value simply must make sense. Reaching for a quarterback is precisely what got us into this mess in the first place. If we don't heed the lessons of history, we are doomed to repeat them. No more middling talents anointed under interminable scholarships for this franchise!
If we can't get one of the top three guys, then we are shut out at six. Either take a WR or trade back. But half the league has serviceable quarterbacks that were not selected in the top ten. Penix sliding is a blessing - find a way to get him late first round or early second round. He could be the next Russell Wilson or Jalen Hurts. Or select a Rattler or a Pratt - either could be the next Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins or Brock Purdy. Or select a Joe Milton. He could be the next Warren Moon or Kurt Warner.
I don't get why this isn't a consensus: Jones shouldn't even see the field this fall because of that injury clause. He shouldn't. He's not even that good & then throw the possibility of him getting injured-which happens a lot-& that injury clause...it's sheer stupidity to even risk it.
Jones succeeded (to the extent he did) in 2022 by primarily being an option for designed runs. Do you think that is wise with his injuries and injury guarantee (and the way the rest of the league caught up to it in 2022)?
3 of his 6 games were without barkley, all 6 may as well have been without thomas since he was only healthy for 1 drive. im more worried about whether or not he can break the bad habits he developed than that it was the league catching up.
the health risk is what you need to weigh, but for $12m of risk id rather go for a pick. scared money doesnt make money and i think their cap is healthy enough that the harder thing to do is get extra picks than find money where needed.
like i said i am almost always prioritizing draft picks >>>> cap space.
I don't get why this isn't a consensus: Jones shouldn't even see the field this fall because of that injury clause. He shouldn't. He's not even that good & then throw the possibility of him getting injured-which happens a lot-& that injury clause...it's sheer stupidity to even risk it.
both sides can go hyperbolic if they want, i would say if jones ends up showing that he's best qb on the roster on the practice field it's pure gutlessness to play a worse player and the rest of the roster will see right through it. at that point if he's healthy they should just cut him.
it's not impossible that they cut Jones btw if he gets beat out (or before). once he is healthy after june 1st there is nothing stopping them from cutting him (other than if they still like him enough to want to keep him around).
I don't get why this isn't a consensus: Jones shouldn't even see the field this fall because of that injury clause. He shouldn't. He's not even that good & then throw the possibility of him getting injured-which happens a lot-& that injury clause...it's sheer stupidity to even risk it.
If we end up getting a QB on day one, the next logical move would be to cut Jones asap - announced as a post-June cut - and go into camp with rookie, Lock and Cutlets.
Keeping Jones on would be beyond superfluous and a distraction.
why did we hire the wrong guy? Genuinely curious how that works.
Maybe we hired the right guy who talked him out of a longer term deal with more guarantees?
Because then we hired a guy who can't convince his boss why his emotional attachments to players are bad for the team. Effective leaders manage up.
Schoen declined the option and got a favorable out clause in the new deal to prevent longer term damage. It wasn’t clean but it could have been a lot worse. You can argue he did a good job convincing Mara off a bigger commitment. Or he thought Jones would keep improving, who knows.
Either way I’m done with Jones and I think Schoen has a plan but if we finish day 2 without a QB selection I will be out on him and that to me would signify he wasn’t the right hire.
Always take the best player. It cuts down on your misses. Don’t draft for need unless you are real close to being a superbowl contender.
So if the best player is a LT, you take him! Do he and Andrew Thomas just start rotating snaps this year? Or do you throw him over at RT and hope he does better than the last best player available we did that with?
No. But if the Giants pick comes up at #6 and their choices are Odunze who they rate 8.5/10, nobody else is above 7, and McCarthy is 6.5/10, they should go with Odunze.
A lot of people on this board think they should go with McCarthy anyway in this situation, because we MUST get a QB.
For what it's worth, I'm fine with a Jones/Lock/DeVito QB room if that's how it shakes out. Maybe they do better with a legitimate offensive line in front of them throwing to Odunze. Lock's a different face and maybe he's better than Jones even if he's not the final answer. Who knows.
The only question is, who and when? The value simply must make sense. Reaching for a quarterback is precisely what got us into this mess in the first place. If we don't heed the lessons of history, we are doomed to repeat them. No more middling talents anointed under interminable scholarships for this franchise!
If we can't get one of the top three guys, then we are shut out at six. Either take a WR or trade back. But half the league has serviceable quarterbacks that were not selected in the top ten. Penix sliding is a blessing - find a way to get him late first round or early second round. He could be the next Russell Wilson or Jalen Hurts. Or select a Rattler or a Pratt - either could be the next Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins or Brock Purdy. Or select a Joe Milton. He could be the next Warren Moon or Kurt Warner.
Be smart Joe Schoen.
I'm not opposed to the idea to keep drafting QBs until you have one. The Giants did just this until they were misled into thinking they had one in Jones.
True, I don't. With so many holes trading up to take a QB just to get one the pundits like will require assets needed to build around him (hence forced), recipe for failure in my opinion. If one falls to us at 6 the front office is enamored with is fine...
You seem wed to one solution... draft Penix at 6.
Nope. If they draft Nix at 6, great. If they trade down to a point where they know they can get one of them, great. If they have information that they can draft either at 47, great.
Alternatively if they trade up for one of the other guys, great. If trading up means throwing in a player currently on the roster or a future draft pick, great.
They've had three years. They shouldn't have left it this long.
Newsflash, the whole draft is a crapshoot.
I played golf today, and am playing Tues, Wed and Thursday as well.
Gonna make some big ass fucking burgers for the draft. I hope for one of the top 3 WRs and somehow Penix, as I feel he is gonna be a baller!
Anyway, two martinis are not enough, three are too many!
Maybe they sign a FA like Dak after next season?
What does "a quarterback they truly believe in" look like?
Does this approach apply to other positions as well? What if a draft provides zero players they truly believe in? Do they bypass that draft entirely?
Do the Giants not have a responsibility to try to work with and adapt to the materials that are actually available to them?
At 6, sure. But the whole draft? I don’t agree and think that’s malpractice. There’s no reason to not take a qb at 47 or 70 or use both to trade up a bit. I don’t buy that they won’t like every QB available to them near where they are picking next.
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If they are not in a position to draft an quarterbacks that they truly believe in this year, then they should pass on a quarterback. If next year is a weak quarterback class, there's nothing wrong with waiting until 2026 to draft your guy. Those two years will be gone before you know it.
What does "a quarterback they truly believe in" look like?
Does this approach apply to other positions as well? What if a draft provides zero players they truly believe in? Do they bypass that draft entirely?
Do the Giants not have a responsibility to try to work with and adapt to the materials that are actually available to them?
It means they do not project him to be a high level starter in the NFL. If pick 6 comes along and the best grade they have on any of the remaining QBs is a 3rd round grade would you still want to pick him? First round picks are huge assets, you don't use them on players you don't think will be any good.
We've already discussed why that is disingenuous and you seemed to at least partially agree.
Literally one of the drafts they could have fixed this had no quarterbacks. It was arguably the worst QB draft in NFL history.
We've already discussed why that is disingenuous and you seemed to at least partially agree.
Literally one of the drafts they could have fixed this had no quarterbacks. It was arguably the worst QB draft in NFL history.
Some people say we should draft a QB every year. I think that might be a good idea.
We've already discussed why that is disingenuous and you seemed to at least partially agree.
Literally one of the drafts they could have fixed this had no quarterbacks. It was arguably the worst QB draft in NFL history.
What about free agency? Trades? Did they draft a QB anywhere in the '22 or '23 drafts even as a developmental guy?
If they don't draft a guy Thursday all they've done in three years is pay Jones. That's not disingenuous, it's just the truth.
We've already discussed why that is disingenuous and you seemed to at least partially agree.
Literally one of the drafts they could have fixed this had no quarterbacks. It was arguably the worst QB draft in NFL history.
It’s omitted because it doesn’t fit the narrative
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You keep bringing up the three year thing.
We've already discussed why that is disingenuous and you seemed to at least partially agree.
Literally one of the drafts they could have fixed this had no quarterbacks. It was arguably the worst QB draft in NFL history.
It’s omitted because it doesn’t fit the narrative
Eric when is BBI gonna out these dupes?
2022... they did not extend the 5th year option, paving the way for Jones' departure. They brought Tyrod Taylor in for the bridge.
2023... this was the fuck up. I'm still not convinced ownership didn't weigh in here, but Schoen has to take responsibility for it.
2024... all signs point to them admitting to the mistake.
If you tell me those things didn't happen, then we just see things differently.
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In comment 16480178 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You keep bringing up the three year thing.
We've already discussed why that is disingenuous and you seemed to at least partially agree.
Literally one of the drafts they could have fixed this had no quarterbacks. It was arguably the worst QB draft in NFL history.
It’s omitted because it doesn’t fit the narrative
Eric when is BBI gonna out these dupes?
Nice spin and utterly false
Even a newbie like me can see you tee FOS
The 2023 fuckup was colossal, and shapes the whole time period.
Both of those suggest we hired the wrong guy. Now it seems we just have to let Giants Football run its course to Mara throws a chair and fires everyone and we start again with more people Bill Belichik suggests would be awesome hires...or BB himself!
It is tiring watching this team not only have no success, but having no plan for success.
Schoen shortened his own window by giving Jones that contract. In my view he has got to find a way to fix that or see if ESPN will hire him.
Fair point
Point taken
There may not be a solution to QB in this draft.
We may be looking at Lock versus DeVito for the starting job.
Welcome to QB hell for at least one more year.
The term QB hell exists for reason. It's real.
You neglect to mention Daniel Jones in all of your posts about who is playing QB. Why is that?
Maybe we hired the right guy who talked him out of a longer term deal with more guarantees?
[quote] In comment 16480109 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Sure they can.
There may not be a solution to QB in this draft.
We may be looking at Lock versus DeVito for the starting job.
Welcome to QB hell for at least one more year.
The term QB hell exists for reason. It's real.
You neglect to mention Daniel Jones in all of your posts about who is playing QB. Why is that? [/quote
Because if the Giants were smart, Jones wouldn't even see the field this fall because of that injury clause.
Maybe we hired the right guy who talked him out of a longer term deal with more guarantees?
Because then we hired a guy who can't convince his boss why his emotional attachments to players are bad for the team. Effective leaders manage up.
2022... they did not extend the 5th year option, paving the way for Jones' departure. They brought Tyrod Taylor in for the bridge.
2023... this was the fuck up. I'm still not convinced ownership didn't weigh in here, but Schoen has to take responsibility for it.
2024... all signs point to them admitting to the mistake.
If you tell me those things didn't happen, then we just see things differently.
This is the full story on QB. While I’m not thrilled with the Jones re-signing, I have to give Schoen credit for at least making it a deal they can get out of after two years vs. 3-5.
Quote:
why did we hire the wrong guy? Genuinely curious how that works.
Maybe we hired the right guy who talked him out of a longer term deal with more guarantees?
Because then we hired a guy who can't convince his boss why his emotional attachments to players are bad for the team. Effective leaders manage up.
💯
Quote:
In comment 16480252 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
why did we hire the wrong guy? Genuinely curious how that works.
Maybe we hired the right guy who talked him out of a longer term deal with more guarantees?
Because then we hired a guy who can't convince his boss why his emotional attachments to players are bad for the team. Effective leaders manage up.
💯
He just did, that’s why Saquon is gone. It’s also why Saquon wasn’t signed to a long term deal last year. I’m not sold on the Mara meddling theory, I think Schoen and Daboll thought Jones was developing, didn’t think they could land anyone in last years draft, and signed Jones to a deal that they could escape in two years if he shit the bed.
he was broken in 2020/2021 too, thats why they declined the 5yo.
im not saying he will be unbroken but it's not inconceivable. he appears to be running sprints with team already, i was skeptical he'd be healthy for camp but if he is i think it's possible if not likely he beats out a rookie + lock.
i know there's the injury guarantee risk, but id personally have no issue risking $12m if he wins the job and plays well enough that they can trade him instead of cutting him. if he plays like he did in 2022 he can probably bring back a day 2 pick (that they may be down from moving up for maye or jjm). but im also of the belief that it is helpful for rookie qbs to not be forced in day 1.
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In comment 16480279 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16480252 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
why did we hire the wrong guy? Genuinely curious how that works.
Maybe we hired the right guy who talked him out of a longer term deal with more guarantees?
Because then we hired a guy who can't convince his boss why his emotional attachments to players are bad for the team. Effective leaders manage up.
💯
He just did, that’s why Saquon is gone. It’s also why Saquon wasn’t signed to a long term deal last year. I’m not sold on the Mara meddling theory, I think Schoen and Daboll thought Jones was developing, didn’t think they could land anyone in last years draft, and signed Jones to a deal that they could escape in two years if he shit the bed.
I think you are correct, which in my mind makes Schoen's mistake worse than simply not being able to talk his boss off the ledge.
Schoen and Daboll turned a feel good 2022 season into a left turn into a dark alley.
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Because Daniel Jones is broken.
he was broken in 2020/2021 too, thats why they declined the 5yo.
im not saying he will be unbroken but it's not inconceivable. he appears to be running sprints with team already, i was skeptical he'd be healthy for camp but if he is i think it's possible if not likely he beats out a rookie + lock.
i know there's the injury guarantee risk, but id personally have no issue risking $12m if he wins the job and plays well enough that they can trade him instead of cutting him. if he plays like he did in 2022 he can probably bring back a day 2 pick (that they may be down from moving up for maye or jjm). but im also of the belief that it is helpful for rookie qbs to not be forced in day 1.
And hopefully that is why we got Lock
Let the (hopefully) rookie sit and learn while DJ is holding a clipboard as not to risk the injury guarantee
&-again, not defending Joe-but I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Mara let his feelings on Jones be known. Hell, all Joe had to do was pick up a newspaper or Google everything John has said about Jones, which is honestly something-Mara's love for DJ-I'd pay solid $ to get a deep dive into. Joe was-at the time-still a green GM & never forget that a lot of these guys are making moves outta self preservation.
Let's be hopeful that Joe knows he fucked up. I think he has. As for Mara, maybe the injuries caused him to see the light. Again, I'm praying that it has.
All this said, this organization is completely fucking lost if Jones sees the field this fall considering that injury clause. Completely lost. I'd cut Jones the second he passes a physical. And if its Lock, DeVito, & whoever, whatever. At least we're not risking a complete disaster in Jones getting injured & then we're on the hook for an additional $23 million in dead cap in '25.
I think you are correct, which in my mind makes Schoen's mistake worse than simply not being able to talk his boss off the ledge.
Schoen and Daboll turned a feel good 2022 season into a left turn into a dark alley.
Mike apologies if this is redundant and something we've gone back and forth on before, but the dark alley is way overstated. they gave jones a 2 year guarantee instead of 1 (which would have been a broadly acceptable consensus even with hindsight).
they got 2 extra option years that would have been below market the way the QB market has gone (and was easily predicted to go).
as i mentioned above if they can somehow get him back to just the 2022 level (an unknown i would not feel comfortable better either way) his remaining 2 years 75m (0 gtd) would i think actually hold decent trade value (day 2 pick).
i would rather maximize draft picks >>> cap space any day of the week. the 2025 base at $30m lower than the 2024 base of 35.5m always looked like a year set up to possibly artificially increase his trade value (pretty sure i made that comment at the time).
If we can't get one of the top three guys, then we are shut out at six. Either take a WR or trade back. But half the league has serviceable quarterbacks that were not selected in the top ten. Penix sliding is a blessing - find a way to get him late first round or early second round. He could be the next Russell Wilson or Jalen Hurts. Or select a Rattler or a Pratt - either could be the next Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins or Brock Purdy. Or select a Joe Milton. He could be the next Warren Moon or Kurt Warner.
Be smart Joe Schoen.
3 of his 6 games were without barkley, all 6 may as well have been without thomas since he was only healthy for 1 drive. im more worried about whether or not he can break the bad habits he developed than that it was the league catching up.
the health risk is what you need to weigh, but for $12m of risk id rather go for a pick. scared money doesnt make money and i think their cap is healthy enough that the harder thing to do is get extra picks than find money where needed.
like i said i am almost always prioritizing draft picks >>>> cap space.
both sides can go hyperbolic if they want, i would say if jones ends up showing that he's best qb on the roster on the practice field it's pure gutlessness to play a worse player and the rest of the roster will see right through it. at that point if he's healthy they should just cut him.
it's not impossible that they cut Jones btw if he gets beat out (or before). once he is healthy after june 1st there is nothing stopping them from cutting him (other than if they still like him enough to want to keep him around).
If we end up getting a QB on day one, the next logical move would be to cut Jones asap - announced as a post-June cut - and go into camp with rookie, Lock and Cutlets.
Keeping Jones on would be beyond superfluous and a distraction.
Hey, you're preaching to the converted.
But I think Eric on Li is probably right. If we can't find our new QB-of-the-future, and Jones is cleared, he will very likely be the starter.
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I agree. But seriously even if we don’t get a QB Thursday, I’m cutting him ASAP.
Hey, you're preaching to the converted.
But I think Eric on Li is probably right. If we can't find our new QB-of-the-future, and Jones is cleared, he will very likely be the starter.
& when he probably inevitably gets injured & can't pass a Match '25 physical & we're on the hook for $23 million in dead cap...I'll laugh.
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why did we hire the wrong guy? Genuinely curious how that works.
Maybe we hired the right guy who talked him out of a longer term deal with more guarantees?
Because then we hired a guy who can't convince his boss why his emotional attachments to players are bad for the team. Effective leaders manage up.
Schoen declined the option and got a favorable out clause in the new deal to prevent longer term damage. It wasn’t clean but it could have been a lot worse. You can argue he did a good job convincing Mara off a bigger commitment. Or he thought Jones would keep improving, who knows.
Either way I’m done with Jones and I think Schoen has a plan but if we finish day 2 without a QB selection I will be out on him and that to me would signify he wasn’t the right hire.
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Always take the best player. It cuts down on your misses. Don’t draft for need unless you are real close to being a superbowl contender.
So if the best player is a LT, you take him! Do he and Andrew Thomas just start rotating snaps this year? Or do you throw him over at RT and hope he does better than the last best player available we did that with?
No. But if the Giants pick comes up at #6 and their choices are Odunze who they rate 8.5/10, nobody else is above 7, and McCarthy is 6.5/10, they should go with Odunze.
A lot of people on this board think they should go with McCarthy anyway in this situation, because we MUST get a QB.
For what it's worth, I'm fine with a Jones/Lock/DeVito QB room if that's how it shakes out. Maybe they do better with a legitimate offensive line in front of them throwing to Odunze. Lock's a different face and maybe he's better than Jones even if he's not the final answer. Who knows.
If we can't get one of the top three guys, then we are shut out at six. Either take a WR or trade back. But half the league has serviceable quarterbacks that were not selected in the top ten. Penix sliding is a blessing - find a way to get him late first round or early second round. He could be the next Russell Wilson or Jalen Hurts. Or select a Rattler or a Pratt - either could be the next Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins or Brock Purdy. Or select a Joe Milton. He could be the next Warren Moon or Kurt Warner.
Be smart Joe Schoen.
I'm not opposed to the idea to keep drafting QBs until you have one. The Giants did just this until they were misled into thinking they had one in Jones.
You might be right. But if that's the case, this organization is even stupider than I thought.
If we take a QB at 6 you’ll never see Jones play another down as a Giant. What do you want to wager?