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So, which QB You Taking? Stats only w/o prospect name bias

Shecky : 4/23/2024 8:22 am
Someone sent this to me last night, because they know how I feel about "Prospect name" bias. Basically, their reputation causes people to see things, rather than a pure clean slate scouting report...

So this chat broke down the top six QBs for this draft, PURELY from a statistical standpoint.

Who would you draft?

Who would you avoid?



I asked where he got this from, he then sent me the full thing. So if you need to cheat, click below
YOU'RE A CHEATER - ( New Window )
Scout the stats  
Shecky : 4/23/2024 8:25 am : link
Now to me, this is the best part of a chart like thiswithout the names.

SCOUT THE CHART. What can you tell as strengths/weaknesses of each QB? Again, if youc an figure out who they are by name (some are easy), remove that and scout the stats.

Go through each QB, red vs green, what are they good at and what are they bad at?

Then go takealook at the "scouting reports" and see how they compare to the numbers. ANd how you scouted the stats.
So you want to eliminate contextual bias too?  
Mike from Ohio : 4/23/2024 8:26 am : link
Why?
I chose Jayden  
Mike in NY : 4/23/2024 8:29 am : link
The reds were in the areas that bothered me the least because yards and TD are a function of the offense and the sack% under pressure is not out of whack to the other players. All of the others had reds in areas that concerned me more when evaluating the numbers.
Without cheating, I’d guess #3, based on the highest win % and the  
Spider56 : 4/23/2024 8:39 am : link
lowest yardage is JJM …
I chose Jayden as well.  
RomanWH : 4/23/2024 8:52 am : link
He was my top choice all throughout this draft process and remains so. Sucks to hear that it's a virtual lock for Wash to draft him but it'll be interesting to follow his professional career.
I am taking Maye #1  
jvm52106 : 4/23/2024 8:57 am : link
regardless of what stats say and going off what I saw two years ago and what he showed last year with a huge change in talent around him.

Maye has the tools and size to develop quite nicely and bring about a change to this team mentally and "spiritually- energy wise".. One huge problem with trying to develop a winner is putting a guy/thing whatever out there that has been a loser (wins and lossses) far more often than not and has been part of some serious blunders during that time.

At some point the Daniel Jones as your QB becomes the wrestler you keep trying to generate some crowd interest with but completely falls on its face each time. After awhile even the other wrestlers can't buy into it.. That to me is where the Giants are with Jones, players might like him but nobody is BELIEVING in him as the guy to lead the way...
TLDR; Heres how I look at 1 through 6, without names  
Shecky : 4/23/2024 9:10 am : link
#1:
- Throws lots of screens/short passes
- Shortest time to throw - is that system, due to screens, both, quick decision maker??
- Avoids pressure, but when pressured is great completing passes. Probably dump offs, because few deep shots unde pressure too.
- For a short passer, he is great at third and long
- Is this a game manager, or a west coast guru? Not a Giants fit, but for the right systme could be a great fit.

#2:
- Not a winner or terrible supporting cast??
- Throws deep, but low completion percentage. Bad completion percent at all levels actually.
- Does he throw deep because he isnt good at the short game, or the system forces it??
- Lowest QBR of the group!!
- TERRIBLE under pressure
- A good fit for Giants due to deep ball, or bad fit due to the horrible pressure stats? This looks like a 3rd to 5th round pick to me. I'd avoid whoever it is.

#3:
- Drool, that winning percentage. Dead giveaway who this is due purely to that unfortunately. Is he a winner, or carried by a dominant team?
- Suprisingly a high 1st down thrower
- Amazing completion percentages. Yet VERY few screens. Since we know who this is, suprised me since critique is coach didnt trust him. Yet few screens and threw on 1st.
- But he has low yards and TDs, because not a pass happy team.
- AMAZING under pressure, but turnovers.
- Great Deep numbers
- Deep ball, efficient and great under pressure, those two alone jump out to me thinking the G men would like this one honestly. But, since this was a giveaway, could be prospect bias

#4:
- Not a winner, but great TD numbers
- TON of time to throw. Slow decisionmaker or is this a playmaer who extends plays??
- Lots of screens, so why the long time to throw, confused now...
- Good short and long, but not good in between. Bigger red flag to me than most.
- Horrible under pressure
- This one is the biggest unknown to me. If I had to guess, I'd say late first, early second round flyer on them?

#5:
- High compelteion %, depth, lots of 1st down passing.
Low yards & TDs, but great Td/int's.
- QBR jumps off the page, massive difference from him to lowest.
- Great under ressuer, but takes sacks.
- Vey good medium to long game, Great 3rd downs
- Without knowing who this is, they jump off the chart to me as the clear #1 overall pick.

#6:
- Quick throws, but also deep balls. Odd
- Bad TD/Int, is that because theya re a risk taker with the deep game?
- Very low pressure, but when pressured not great. Chucks it deep
- Terrible at 3rd and long, low completion % and thows INT's when going deep. but good short to middle game.
- Don't know who this is, but seems to chuck it deep and gets bailed out. I doubt this is the system, my guess is they have a poor supporting cast but a great WR he trusts. I would not draft this QB if that's the case.
#6  
Go Terps : 4/23/2024 9:12 am : link
.
Chose Bo Nix  
bigblueny : 4/23/2024 9:13 am : link
Easily the QB tested most under pressure (and did quite well) according to this chart. Watching his film I’m not impressed by his arm strength though.
Interesting info  
upnyg : 4/23/2024 9:18 am : link
So, Im sorry where are the players names?
Well apparently, this is how I have them lol  
Shecky : 4/23/2024 9:22 am : link
1: Daniels is my runaway #1 overall.
1: JJM is my second, who I would use the 6th pick for, might even move up if they see stuff on tape they love.
Late 1: Nix, but may not be the system fit? But the QB will be here longer than the coaching staff so...

2: I was floored when I realized this was Caleb, consensus #1 oveall all offseason. Clearly the stats dont do his tape jsutice. but I would use our second rounder on him lol, shows you how little I know

4: Penix... Unfortunately my guess about the WR may have been more spot on than I expected. Odunze shoots up my draft board even higher after that write up by me.

5: Maye. OUCH!!!! We all hear abouthis physical tools, something that won't show in the stats. And projection. So this is where the pros really shine, but on paper - wuldn't touch himwith a ten foot poll. but obviously scouts are better than nmy number crunching.

Extremely interesting exercise. Almost no QB wound up where I would have expected them. Daniels was my clear winner. JJM impressed me. Nix suprised me. Maye SHOCKED me. And I completely whiffed on Caleb 🤣
RE: #6  
Shecky : 4/23/2024 9:23 am : link
In comment 16481160 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


If you want to see the names, you can click on the link. Scroll just a bit down.
The comment that lists each number with a white bar next to it.
Click on the white bar and it will reveal the name. Do it for each you want to know.
Number  
AcidTest : 4/23/2024 9:24 am : link
3, which is JJM.
RE: RE: #6  
upnyg : 4/23/2024 9:31 am : link
In comment 16481192 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 16481160 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



If you want to see the names, you can click on the link. Scroll just a bit down.
The comment that lists each number with a white bar next to it.
Click on the white bar and it will reveal the name. Do it for each you want to know.
thanks, good stuff!
RE: TLDR; Heres how I look at 1 through 6, without names  
Mike in NY : 4/23/2024 9:44 am : link
In comment 16481158 Shecky said:
Quote:
#1:
- Throws lots of screens/short passes
- Shortest time to throw - is that system, due to screens, both, quick decision maker??
- Avoids pressure, but when pressured is great completing passes. Probably dump offs, because few deep shots unde pressure too.
- For a short passer, he is great at third and long
- Is this a game manager, or a west coast guru? Not a Giants fit, but for the right systme could be a great fit.

#2:
- Not a winner or terrible supporting cast??
- Throws deep, but low completion percentage. Bad completion percent at all levels actually.
- Does he throw deep because he isnt good at the short game, or the system forces it??
- Lowest QBR of the group!!
- TERRIBLE under pressure
- A good fit for Giants due to deep ball, or bad fit due to the horrible pressure stats? This looks like a 3rd to 5th round pick to me. I'd avoid whoever it is.

#3:
- Drool, that winning percentage. Dead giveaway who this is due purely to that unfortunately. Is he a winner, or carried by a dominant team?
- Suprisingly a high 1st down thrower
- Amazing completion percentages. Yet VERY few screens. Since we know who this is, suprised me since critique is coach didnt trust him. Yet few screens and threw on 1st.
- But he has low yards and TDs, because not a pass happy team.
- AMAZING under pressure, but turnovers.
- Great Deep numbers
- Deep ball, efficient and great under pressure, those two alone jump out to me thinking the G men would like this one honestly. But, since this was a giveaway, could be prospect bias

#4:
- Not a winner, but great TD numbers
- TON of time to throw. Slow decisionmaker or is this a playmaer who extends plays??
- Lots of screens, so why the long time to throw, confused now...
- Good short and long, but not good in between. Bigger red flag to me than most.
- Horrible under pressure
- This one is the biggest unknown to me. If I had to guess, I'd say late first, early second round flyer on them?

#5:
- High compelteion %, depth, lots of 1st down passing.
Low yards & TDs, but great Td/int's.
- QBR jumps off the page, massive difference from him to lowest.
- Great under ressuer, but takes sacks.
- Vey good medium to long game, Great 3rd downs
- Without knowing who this is, they jump off the chart to me as the clear #1 overall pick.

#6:
- Quick throws, but also deep balls. Odd
- Bad TD/Int, is that because theya re a risk taker with the deep game?
- Very low pressure, but when pressured not great. Chucks it deep
- Terrible at 3rd and long, low completion % and thows INT's when going deep. but good short to middle game.
- Don't know who this is, but seems to chuck it deep and gets bailed out. I doubt this is the system, my guess is they have a poor supporting cast but a great WR he trusts. I would not draft this QB if that's the case.


I had a similar reaction to you when reading the numbers
Meaningless  
Thegratefulhead : 4/23/2024 10:26 am : link
Without context. Every QB that plays in certain programs produces stats like that whoever is at QB. The back up comes in and plays just as well if not better. Great college players produce great stats because of talent. I am dying on the hill that thinks the ability to handle adversity. Is WAAAY more important than the stats. People missed on Hurts and he handled adversity right in front of us and all of us and the entire NFL missed it.

Show me the man who picks himself up and I will show you a winner.
RE: Meaningless  
Shecky : 4/23/2024 11:08 am : link
In comment 16481344 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Without context. Every QB that plays in certain programs produces stats like that whoever is at QB. The back up comes in and plays just as well if not better. Great college players produce great stats because of talent. I am dying on the hill that thinks the ability to handle adversity. Is WAAAY more important than the stats. People missed on Hurts and he handled adversity right in front of us and all of us and the entire NFL missed it.

Show me the man who picks himself up and I will show you a winner.


Im a massive believer in you need that in your leader, QB or anywhere elsse. So I wont disagree it's a piece to thepuzzle.

But I have also swung and missed by falling in love with a prospect purely because of that dog mentality. I never feel in love with a prospect more than Leftwich as he teammates carried him to the line of scrimmage.

But at the end of the day, more strong leaders/low talent guys bust than anything else. It's all pieces to the puzzle IMO.
If this was only fantasy sports  
SteelGiant : 4/23/2024 11:21 am : link
cant judge based only on stats.

different schemes, different protection, different weapons

picking a QB is should be based on projection in your system.
RE: If this was only fantasy sports  
Shecky : 4/23/2024 2:41 pm : link
In comment 16481461 SteelGiant said:
Quote:
cant judge based only on stats.

different schemes, different protection, different weapons

picking a QB is should be based on projection in your system.


That's the exact point of this original post. Nothing can be done in a vacuum. But this exercise takes a lot of the noise out of thepicture and a complete unique view.

Stats alone can tell you when a college hitter hits 25 HR, he's got power. But another player they keep saying has power but only hit 8 HR's, it makes you wonder. Especially since most scouting reports just regurgitat whatever the first report says.

Most importantly, comments from post actually do talk about system fits.


Quote:

Not a Giants fit, but for the right systme could be a great fit.


Quote:

- A good fit for Giants due to deep ball, or bad fit due to the horrible pressure stats?


Quote:

Deep ball, efficient and great under pressure, those two alone jump out to me thinking the G men would like this one honestly.


Quote:

Nix, but may not be the system fit? But the QB will be here longer than the coaching staff so...


Quote:

We all hear abouthis physical tools, something that won't show in the stats. And projection. So this is where the pros really shine, but on paper - wuldn't touch himwith a ten foot poll. but obviously scouts are better than nmy number crunching.

"Ooooof, really hope #2 isn't May...sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet"  
j_rud : 4/23/2024 2:45 pm : link
.
lol, kinda fun  
Andy in Halifax : 4/23/2024 2:53 pm : link
I picked Nix, Daniels and Penix...

Which are the three I loved throughout the season too. I am consistent.

My dream scenario remains one of Harrison/Nabers in 1 and then getting Nix/Penix with our next pick. Trade up if necessary.
I'd Draft #3  
BlueVinnie : 4/23/2024 2:56 pm : link
which I assume is JJ.
My second choice would be #1 by a hair over #6 (not sure who they are).
Mark Twain  
MojoEd : 4/23/2024 3:06 pm : link
“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.” Fun exercise, but can’t put too much in stats. I remember looking down on Josh Allen for his low completion percentage and the widely held belief that QBs don’t improve that stat in the pros.
.  
Go Terps : 4/23/2024 3:17 pm : link
The "Penix sucks under pressure" crowd better not be hoping for Drake Maye to be the pick.
Get me the Michigan Man.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 4/23/2024 3:19 pm : link
Simple. Easy.

TO SEE WHO IS WHO  
Shecky : 4/23/2024 3:28 pm : link
- If you want to see the names, you can click on the link. - - Scroll just a bit down.
- The comment that lists each number with a white bar next to it.
- Click on the white bar and it will reveal the name. Do it for each you want to know.
RE: lol, kinda fun  
Shecky : 4/23/2024 3:36 pm : link
In comment 16481926 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
I picked Nix, Daniels and Penix...

Which are the three I loved throughout the season too. I am consistent.

My dream scenario remains one of Harrison/Nabers in 1 and then getting Nix/Penix with our next pick. Trade up if necessary.


That's pretty awesome that the guys you liked, you still like without their names attached to it.

I'll be honest, I was very suprised by how different my thoughts were before the exercise vs after.
RE: RE: lol, kinda fun  
Go Terps : 4/23/2024 3:38 pm : link
In comment 16481990 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 16481926 Andy in Halifax said:


Quote:


I picked Nix, Daniels and Penix...

Which are the three I loved throughout the season too. I am consistent.

My dream scenario remains one of Harrison/Nabers in 1 and then getting Nix/Penix with our next pick. Trade up if necessary.



That's pretty awesome that the guys you liked, you still like without their names attached to it.

I'll be honest, I was very suprised by how different my thoughts were before the exercise vs after.


Drake Maye is scary in this context. And so is Caleb Williams.
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