Under Pat Shurmur, Jones had a very productive rookie season. He threw for 24 TDs in just 12 starts and averaged 232.8 passing yards per game.
In 2019, it's not like he had a stellar offensive line with Solder, Hernandez, Halapio, Zeitler and Remmers. That offensive line allowed Jones to get sacked 38 times, a little over 3 sacks per Jones 12 starts.
Also in 2019, Jones flashed with some stellar games. Comeback win against the Bucs (364 total yards and 4 TDs), close losses against the Lions (335 yards and 4 TDs) and Jets (328 yards and 4 TDs). Then he had perhaps his best game in a win at Washington in week 16 where Jones had 364 yards and 5 TDs.
We all know what happened during the Joe Judge years. Multiple injuries and an inept offense for most of 2020 and 2021 seasons.
Finally, we then saw some more flashes with Brian Daboll in second half of the 2022 season. After a massive team record contract, Jones failed miserably in 2023. Again with multiple injuries and not to mention an even worst Offensive Line that allowed Jones to get sacked 30 times in just 6 starts.
With Daniel Jones entering his 6th season, I'm still 50/50 on what direction I want to see the Giants take in the NFL Draft tomorrow. Part of me thinks of all the games Jones flashed his ability and hopefully the O-Line improvements made in Free Agency. Maybe Jones can live up to his potential, especially if the Giants are able to add a true #1 WR in the draft.
Then the other part of me considers all the injuries Jones has suffered, twice with his neck. Plus with all the pressures and sacks he's taken, he's looked shell shocked at times. That's when I think Giants would be better off with a new QB without all that baggage of injuries, massive contract to live up to and poor overall play despite a lack of O-Line and flashes of his potential from time to time.
Either way they go, I can't wait to see what the Giants decide to do tomorrow!
Why?
Explanations will vary, but Jones was a guy who would throw down the field.
Why?
Garrett is gonna be high on that list
His best game by far was his debut against Tampa, but it was mostly mediocre aside from games against poor defenses.
Why?
Explanations will vary, but Jones was a guy who would throw down the field.
Looking at what happened with Mac Jones after Joe Judge returned to New England compounded with injuries it is easy to see how Daniel Jones regressed. Considering that Bill Belichick thought it would be smart to put a 2nd year QB who had just taken the team to the playoffs with Joe Judge & Matt Patricia as co-OC you have to really question whether he belongs in any role involving personnel at NFL level.
judge was a disaster and he/garrett set this franchise back offensively into the stone age.
daboll got things back on track in 2022 but jones still had some bad habits. we got flashes of the 2019 version (min, az) but he broke figuratively then literally under record pressure. i do think almost anyone would have though. in the tough part of the schedule early last year without barkley and thomas that was the worst OL ive ever watched.
There was basically no book on him against TB and they were awful (30th in passing yards allowed, 29th in points)
The Jets were actually okay (16th passing, 17th points) but their gameplan that day called for stopping Barkley at any cost.
The Lions were bad. (32nd in passing yards, 26th points)
Washington was a total disaster, playing out the string and pulling guys off the street to play defense for them.
In those 4 games, Jones scored 17 TDs against only 4 TOs.
In the other 8 games, 9 TDs, 21 TOs.
Now you tell me, which one is the real Jones?
This has to be a parody account, right?
Jones has done all he can to show us he isn’t good enough. Rip off the bandaid and move on. Stop living on a decent rookie season from 5 years ago.
The stats are what they are.
Also, the Jets game looks good on the surface, but Jones did nothing in the 4th quarter on multiple possesions.
If you want an example of pre-2022 Jones being effective, I always look at the first couple of games in 2021 before he got concussed. I believe he was actually ranking above average average in all the passing metrics up until that point, though it was only a four game sample.
Take the Tampa game, first start. We win the game and Jones makes a play with his legs to win the game. BUT, he was intercepted on a bad pass, fumbled from a hit in the pocket and once scrambling (if I remember correctly). He made some nice passes but other passes were a little late and low.. The big TD to Engram was more Engram and TB's bad defense than Jones's ability as a QB..
Many other games were up and down- passes that looked good with a bunch of sort of's, a number of turnovers etc..
Under Judge it became more constrained (let's cut these turnovers down) and that meant a guy who wasn't a big time passer anyway- meaning he isn't throwing for 300 week in adn out, now became much more conservative and his turnovers came down but so did his TD's and points produced- almost equally too..
Jones with Daboll was still conscious of the turnovers but the running and scheming hid his issues a bit.. As the season wore down so did Jones. His best game was against Minnesota but even then we could have had more points and blown them out but Jones's good play was also conservative play and that kept Minny in the game..
Jones has regressed greatly and his passing motion looks different ever since the first neck injury.
I think Jones’ confidence level dropped dramatically when they brought in Judge/Garrett. The focus on protecting the ball was taken to extremes in my opinion and led to Jones being afraid to throw anything into tight windows or deep in general.
I’m not saying Jones is great by any means, but to me he looks like he’s more uncomfortable now than he did his rookie year. I’m sure the injuries haven’t helped with that.
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those who say it was "just the bad defenses", I don't buy that. He threw the ball down the field. A lot of deep shots to Slayton. He made an incredible throw for a TD on 4th down against the Bears (maybe someone can find the clip on that). Just different.
The stats are what they are.
Yes. And he threw 24 touchdown passes. In 12 games. With a terrible supporting cast.
Also, other than Barkley, what weapons has he had. I'm not saying he's an All-Pro, but you can't tell me Brock Purdy would have been a top 15 QB in the same circumstances.
Daboll came in and had Jones running to DC's surprise for a few games, between that and the threat of Barkely, who was second in the NFL in rushing, we had a passable offense. Jones' passing numbers were no better than in his previous years. DC's studied film and came out this year shutting down the run, taking away the short pass and hanging Jones out to dry. Why do you think Drew Lock is here?
That is true, and I do wonder if the effort to cut down on turnovers led to him playing more conservatively. But you can’t discount the DC factor, defenses getting to know his tendencies, game-planning off of those, and him not being able to adjust.
The league has had any number of one year wonders at QB, but only one gets chance after chance after chance…
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In comment 16483285 Eric from BBI said:
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those who say it was "just the bad defenses", I don't buy that. He threw the ball down the field. A lot of deep shots to Slayton. He made an incredible throw for a TD on 4th down against the Bears (maybe someone can find the clip on that). Just different.
The stats are what they are.
Yes. And he threw 24 touchdown passes. In 12 games. With a terrible supporting cast.
I believe that was specifically addressed, not only by OP but with statistical support in subsequent posts.
An overwhelming portion of his season stats were accumulated against horrible defenses. It's undeniable.
He's played a bunch of bad defenses since. He hasn't regained that form.
Number of 2019 Jones games with passer rating over 90.4: 4
His 2019 wasn't that good, and if you didn't see the red flags it's because you didn't want to.
It was perfect shitstorm.
Terrible coaching, from HC to OC, no talent around him - terrible OL/ PS level WR, injuries to him and key offensive players. Going through several different OC/ offensive schemes, and getting the crap beat out of him.
In 2022, he played well. Not great, but played well. And that was with Richie James leading in catches, along with picking up Hodgins off a PS halfway through the year and Slayton who was going to get cut before the injuries forced them to keep him.
But I think 2023 broke him. Besides the injuries and Dabol making a terrible decision not to play the starters at all in the preseason. You can just see he lost all his confidence. He looked scared playing behind that OL and he never recovered. And he probably won’t ever recover.
Im sure a lot will disagree with me and that’s fine. We’ll never know because this year even if we surround him with a good OL and get him WR1, I think he’s broken.
I was at the 2019 Giants/Jets regular season game when Barkley ran for negative yards. Jones and Slayton were excellent that day. We lost but not because of Jones.
He had the ability then, seems to be broken now.
While the surrounding cast wasn't great, Jones didn't get better as a passer either. He's been the same type of passer since he was in Durham.
The only other time he produced was 2022 when Dabka devised a formula to exploit Jones as a runner. But Jones really didn't improve materially as a passer. It's just we caught the league off guard with the dual threat option. And last year it was clear the league had figured out how to limit Jones as a dual threat.
Jones's entire career has been fool's gold.
2022 showed that in a good system he could be good. Maybe better than good, but not that he ever showed. There was some question after 2022 whether he could process, or whether Daboll was protecting him. The big contract strongly implies that Daboll did not think he was protecting him.
2023 was a disaster. He showed no growth and some regression in his second year with the same staff. That was a big surprise. The whole team was woefully unprepared for opening day (which is on Daboll) and that destroyed Jones. But if you take a step back, 2023 gives you almost no information about DJ as a QB. He had a horrible game that good QB play wins (Seattle), a win where he played a dismal half and a good half, two losses that Tom Brady would not have won, and two incompletes. He did not play well in the losses, but he was not the primary problem.
So if you thought DJ sucked before 2023, then the year just proved the point and you can't wait to get rid of him. This is a good part of and the most vocal part of BBI.
If you thought he is the next Eli then 2023 was an aberration. I guess this is Jack Stroud. And that's about it.
In my opinion Jones has almost always been a net positive for the Giants. But he was not in 2023. Given the regression and injuries I am fine with moving on. But I still think DJ can be a successful QB in the right place. Put him on the Eagles or the 49ers, and if he stays healthy the team could win and maybe win it all. But that is not the Giants, and it is hard to build that kind of team while paying him $40/year.
The question on Jones for me is can he be healthy, if he’s healthy I think he can be a good QB with weapons and a good OL. He’s also shell shocked, in the few games he played he was getting killed. It’s hard to look downfield even if you have a little time after you have gotten hammered several times before. “Why didn’t you hit that guy wide open, you had time on that play?” The 3 plays before I got hit within 2 seconds so I rushed it. Why was Jones still in vs Dallas in game 1 when they were teeing off on him? There was some poor coaching decisions.
I don’t know if he can snap out of playing scared. It’s like a flinch after someone hits you and they say they won’t the next time. They do a half swing and you flinch because you don’t trust them. He may be too far gone or maybe both sides benefit from a parting of ways.
He’s never going to be a top 5 QB so he’s replaceable. I don’t think the Giants should trade up for any of these QBs. They are being inflated and a new QB being put in a similar situation will have similar results. Stay at 6 and see what happens. Teams that have been successful drafting QBs were either already good or didn’t give up a lot to get the QB.
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However, he’s just not a QB I can envision ever winning a SB. He just doesn’t have that “it” factor.
Every teams goal is to win a SB, so if you have a QB that isn’t capable of doing that you have to move on.
But I guess Jones didn't face any bad defenses in 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023.
Also, other than Barkley, what weapons has he had. I'm not saying he's an All-Pro, but you can't tell me Brock Purdy would have been a top 15 QB in the same circumstances.
This is where my head is at still. I don't think his ceiling is more than a middle of the road starter but the rhetoric at this point is just dumb. "Look at how Taylor and Devito were better!!" lol
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and offensive line play. Both have been rough seas since he's come into the league. A bad offensive line can destroy a career. From a IQ development perspective and just simply lost confidence in timing, having time to read the field and general ability to get in rhythm. If nothing gets better over time, how do you expect the QB to develop?
Also, other than Barkley, what weapons has he had. I'm not saying he's an All-Pro, but you can't tell me Brock Purdy would have been a top 15 QB in the same circumstances.
This is where my head is at still. I don't think his ceiling is more than a middle of the road starter but the rhetoric at this point is just dumb. "Look at how Taylor and Devito were better!!" lol
I mean Taylor and DeVito were statistically better so that’s not really incorrect. Jones looked the worst I have seen him in any season early last year. He looked lost out there.
With his legs, Jones had a solution to part of that problem, but running only gets a QB so far. It was only a matter of time before he wound up on IR.
Same as the next draft pick. If OL isn't fixed, prepare a room at Hackensack Medical.
While the surrounding cast wasn't great, Jones didn't get better as a passer either. He's been the same type of passer since he was in Durham.
The only other time he produced was 2022 when Dabka devised a formula to exploit Jones as a runner. But Jones really didn't improve materially as a passer. It's just we caught the league off guard with the dual threat option. And last year it was clear the league had figured out how to limit Jones as a dual threat.
Jones's entire career has been fool's gold.
and here we are on the eve of them "getting more weapons for DJ" how depressing
Even with subpar weapons he does his good actually helping guys reach there potential.
Jones does not have faith in the OL. A new QB will give them the benefit of the doubt early on, but once he sees most of the time their assignments will get botched that'll change.
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In comment 16483304 GuzzaBlue said:
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and offensive line play. Both have been rough seas since he's come into the league. A bad offensive line can destroy a career. From a IQ development perspective and just simply lost confidence in timing, having time to read the field and general ability to get in rhythm. If nothing gets better over time, how do you expect the QB to develop?
Also, other than Barkley, what weapons has he had. I'm not saying he's an All-Pro, but you can't tell me Brock Purdy would have been a top 15 QB in the same circumstances.
This is where my head is at still. I don't think his ceiling is more than a middle of the road starter but the rhetoric at this point is just dumb. "Look at how Taylor and Devito were better!!" lol
I mean Taylor and DeVito were statistically better so that’s not really incorrect. Jones looked the worst I have seen him in any season early last year. He looked lost out there.
Again, this has been reiterated ad-nauseum. Anyone with eyes could see that the team was under-prepared for the season, with some really poor roster decisions (especially on the OL). The best player on offense is lost in the 1st series of the 1st game, they put Ezeudu (EZEUDU!!) at LT. Jones gets basically the living shit kicked out of him that game and the subsequent games until he eventually gets seriously injured (twice). I mean come on man. I get it, everyone wants to blame the QB, but holy shit already. I'll reiterate he's likely a middle tier ceiling NFL QB, but again the rhetoric at this point is just stupid. At this point move on from the guy so at least we have a new guy for the BBI QB whisperers to rant about on every thread... lol
With the 2020 strike season, it's likely Shurmur even would've won the division that year if he hadn't been fired. There's a lot of who knows here, but I don't necessarily think it was fool's gold at the time.
Here you go.
That's a fair assessment. Not killing him, not anointing him. People are posting that Jones is the guy for 10-15 years...
And concerning Jones's performance against the Redskins, haven't you learned yet what games are real and which are bullshit? We went through this in '18 with people going nuts over offensive production against dead teams in the second half of the season.
This game against Philly was a real game, against real coaches (Schwartz's defense once again owning the Giants), against a real team that was playing for high stakes. That's what the season opener is going to look like next year...not the Redskins with an interim coaching staff.
I've said it in a bunch of threads...I like Jones, but the problems with his game are real: ball security and pocket presence. And I'm not sure they can ever get coached away...they weren't with Eli in 16 years.
I take umbrage with people calling this a great rookie season for Jones. It wasn't by any stretch. A 6.6 YPA, all the turnovers, and a 3-9 record as a starter don't scream "franchise QB" to me. Sorry.
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But I guess Jones didn't face any bad defenses in 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023.
Defenses figured out how to defend him and he never adjusted. Daboll was able to build an offense utilizing his legs, but that wasn’t sustainable. Mitch Trubisky threw 6 TD’s in a game, yet no one is wondering what happened to him. Blake Bortles threw for 35 TD’s his first full year as a starter, and he’s been out of the league for a few years now.
DC’s in this league are pretty smart, they’re going to find ways to stop you. And if you can’t adjust, you won’t be in the league very long.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
after his first year, the main concern was ball security and knowing when a pay was dead. and Barkley was unavailable a lot.