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Mock Draft 2.0 (and final)

Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 3:12 pm
They are never accurate so I went hard with some trades.

Have at it

1) CHI: Caleb Williams – QB/USC

Signed, sealed, delivered over a month ago when Bears new security blanket-receiver showed up to dap Williams at his Pro Day. General Manager Ryan Poles has put together as good of a situation for a rookie as I can remember.

2) WAS: Jayden Daniels – QB/LSU

Getting the ball out with a clean and quick release while having the backup option of taking off with Lamar-caliber athletic ability fits best with the new Kingsbury scheme. From average Pac-12 starter to a Heisman Trophy winning SEC quarterback to the number two overall pick in a matter of three years shows Daniels’ ability to progress and move forward.

3) NE: Drake Maye – QB/North Carolina

“The Packer Way” (written by Patriots new General Manager Eliot Wolf’s father) has two first-steps to building the culture: “Identify what needs to be fixed” (trade Mac Jones) and “Hire the best before anyone else does” (AKA not trading out). Maye needs work and this NE roster is as bad as it gets, thus they can afford to pay Maye to hold Jacoby Brissett’s clipboard for 2024.

4) ARI: Marvin Harrison Jr. – WR/Ohio State

The phones will be ringing but unless the Giants come up with the right offer, I don’t see them looking past the assurance of grabbing their number one receiver. This franchise is fully committed to Kyler Murray and getting a credible number one threat on the outside is near-mandatory.

*TRADE*

LAC trades #5 and #105 (4) // MIN trades #11 and #23


5) MIN: JJ McCarthy – QB/Michigan

The Vikings will not have a ton of leverage here but there also won’t be much competition for this trade up. They get their younger/faster/cheaper version of Kirk Cousins and LAC drops into the areas of round one where they can feed off the depth of the class for areas of their roster that need help.

*TRADE*

NYG trades #6 // CHI trades #9 and 2025 2nd


6) CHI: Malik Nabers – WR/LSU

CHI puts one more move on paper to make this the best possible situation for a new rookie quarterback by giving him another explosive option that is cost-controlled for five years. NYG gets out of 6 in an effort to stockpile their 2025 arsenal after missing out on the four quarterbacks from this class (and they’re not done yet).

7) TEN: Rome Odunze – WR/Washington

The first surprise of draft night as they had their pick of the litter at tackle but the depth of the group in this class along with the team running out of Treylon Burks-hope (along with a trade up later in round 1) lands them a future number one to grow with Will Levis. Odunze will slide right into the DeAndre Hopkins role in 2025 when they’re ready to compete (if not sooner of Hopkins has suitors in-season).

8) ATL: Dallas Turner – ED/Alabama

Defensive-minded Raheem Morris gets the new shiny toy and first defensive player taken in the draft, an incredibly gifted edge defender that immediately changes the personality up front. Turner can do it all and Morris wants more than just a pure pass rusher in his scheme.

*TRADE*

NYG trades #9 // LAC trades #11 and #110 (4)


9) LAC: Joe Alt – OT/Notre Dame

The risk of potentially losing out on OT1 still nets what LAC wanted at #5 overall, the top tackle on their board that does not need to be rushed into action right away as Alt transitions to the right side. NYG gladly moves back two more spots to pick up even more ammunition for next year’s pursuit of a quarterback while still getting what they want with this first rounder.

10) NYJ: Brock Bowers – TE/Georgia

They are rolling the dice with the oldest pair of starting tackles in the league and while the long-term play would be grabbing a tackle, they simply build off the “All In” approach by getting the top yard-after-catch threat in the class. Bowers is an offensive weapon that can create production and points without too much reliance on the offensive line.

11) NYG: Brian Thomas Jr. – WR/LSU

After two trade downs, NYG does miss out on the top three receivers, but they pick up a big and fast downfield threat with the same or similar ceiling while also picking valuable future assets in the 2025 Draft. All of the talk surrounding the top three has actually created a sense of an underrated and overlooked prospect that can be NYG’s top pass catcher by the end of the year.

12) DEN: Bo Nix – QB/Oregon

There isn’t a scarier quarterback depth chart in the league and with the price being too steep for DEN to move up with a near-empty wallet, Sean Payton gets his big-handed experienced shot caller to revive the franchise in year two. While the all-time leader in NCAA starts under center should be ready week one, there are a couple of holdover options to carry the torch for a month if needed.

13) LV: Terrion Arnold – CB/Alabama

There is a breath of fresh life in Las Vegas after Antonio Pierce was retained and new General Manager Tom Telesco makes his way across the division, and they chase after stopping Patrick Mahomes rather than chasing points. The long-term solution at quarterback isn’t here yet, but the signing of Wilkins and drafting of Arnold immediately give the defense a different feel.

14) NO: Olumuyiwa Fashanu – OT/Penn State

This offense is in trouble with a lack of stability at not one, but both tackle spots and this is not a rebuilding era for a franchise paying veteran Derek Carr to play quarterback. Fashanu is a week one starter at left tackle, and it creates a potential move of Trevor Penning to guard (similar to what the team did with another former first round tackle Andrus Peat).

15) IND: Quinyon Mitchell – CB/Toledo

General Manager Chris Ballard values the freakish tools as much as anyone and he chases after high-value positions especially when there is a need such as this one IND has at corner. Mitchell may be overlooked by some because of where he went to college but he is easily the most talented corner in this draft.

16) SEA: Troy Fautanu – OT/Washington

One of the most visited/requested offensive linemen in the draft with credible week one inside-out versatility gets reunited with his college offensive coordinator. Fautanu has a lot of fans around the league but SEA gets the week one starter at guard and a solid hedge at either tackle spot of Abraham Lucas/Charles Cross do not take steps forward.

17) JAX: Byron Murphy – DT/Texas

The best combination of pop and power despite a less-than-ideal frame will be a much needed-complement to the young freaks they have on the outside and new oversized tackle Arik Armestead to give them a high-ceiling foursome. Murphy is a unique player and General Manager Trent Baalke loves to take chances like this.

18) CIN: Jared Verse – DT/Florida State

A sneaky candidate to be one of the surprise-fallers of the first round, Verse (who could go top ten) won’t get by a CIN despite a strong room. They truly draft for future and there may be one, possibly even two vacant defensive end spots before 2026. Myles Murphy in 2023 and Jared Verse in 2024 appears to be an embarrassment of riches but the value is too good to pass on and I am still waiting for someone to show me a team that had “too many pass rushers”.

19) LAR: Adonai Mitchell – WR/Texas

Someone is going to take a chance on the big and explosive receiver that has arguably the most natural ball skills and fluidity of all the receivers in this stacked class, even if the effort switch runs hot and cold. Mitchell does not need to be a yard-after-catch machine with Kupp and Nacua in the fold, but what he can do is complement their skill sets to give Matthew Stafford something a little extra in what could be his final season.

20) PIT: JC Latham – OT/Alabama

Two straight years of offensive tackle in round one may seem like a stretch and while I do not think it is their first choice, this is the guy that makes the most sense even if they want to try him at guard initially. Latham is going to feed into the classic Steeler-way of doing things built on power and domination at the point of attack.

21) MIA: Jer’Zhan Newton – DT/Illinois

There are a couple of questions that surround Newton’s health and durability long term, but we are also talking about the defensive tackle that was on the field more than every other defensive lineman in this draft class over the past two years. This is the answer to the void left by Christian Wilkins leaving for LV.

22) PHI: Nate Wiggins – CB / Clemson

Wiggins can absolutely fly but what gets overlooked in his game is the ability to find and locate the football with excellent balance and precision, giving him an even more explosive feel to his game. PHI will look past the lack of size and power because of how well he can move and what he could potentially be to number one receivers.

*TRADE*

LAC trades #23 and #69 (3) / SF trades #31 and WR Brandon Aiyuk


23) SF: Taliese Fuaga – OT/Oregon State

Aiyuk is the one player I feel will be traded over the course of draft weekend. The team uses him as leverage to trade up and get a week one starting right tackle that fits in well with how SF wants to play up front while also finishing with an extra third round pick and cleaner salary cap. If Shanahan had to pick one guy at receiver to keep around long term, I think he goes Samuel over Aiyuk.

24) DAL: Graham Barton – OG/Duke

Tyron Smith out, Tyler Smith to left guard, former college tackle drafted to play inside (who realistically can project both center and guard). Repeat draft weekend situation that has worked multiple times in recent years.

25) GB: Cooper DeJean – CB/Iowa

Second straight year of bringing in a versatile first round defender from Iowa to create multiple options for that side of the ball, except this time around it is for the back end to complete a nice revival for the spine the defense.

*TRADE*

TB trades #26 and OLB Joe Tryon-Shoyinka // TEN trades #38 (2) and 2025 1st


26) TEN: Tyler Guyton – OT/Oklahoma

Tennessee needs to walk out of this draft with a new starting left tackle after that position alone allowed 88 pressures in 2023. Hiring Offensive Line Coach Bill Callahan usually means a first round lineman is incoming even if it means giving up the 2025 first. Tampa Bay trades out of round one and rids themselves of a former first round edge defender while eyeing his replacement in round two and picking up a valuable future chip.

27) ARI: Laiatu Latu – ED/UCLA

By far the most refined pass rusher in the class will see a fall in the first round because a lack of top end physical traits and a past neck injury. He shouldn’t fall too far, however, especially for a team in need of more production up front.

28) BUF: Kool-Aid McKinstry – CB/Alabama

A lot of talk surrounding BUF and their need for another receiver as they lost Gabe Davis and Stefon Diggs. Equally glaring is the lack of quality they have at outside corner and when it comes to value of what is available, McKinstry gets the nod as he can be what TreDavious White once was for this team.

29) DET: Jackson Powers-Johnson – OG/Oregon

The interior of this line needs help and they can figure out where Powers-Johnson works best initially, although I lean toward guard right now. They’ve had recent success finding maulers and looking past positional value in round one and this will be no different.

30) BAL: Amarius Mims – OT/Georgia

One of the most intriguing and interesting prospects in the class. At this time last year, Olu Fashanu could have come out after just nine starts but opted to return to school. Mims, with just eight career starts, left for the league and will need some extra time. That said, if Mims hits just 80% of his ceiling he will be a Pro-Bowler.

31) LAC: Mike Sainristil – CB/Michigan

The surprise first rounder gets reunited with Harbaugh to fill in the nickel role right away but do not sleep on his ability to shift outside, giving LAC options with Asante Samuel Jr. Sainristil, a former receiver, is the kind of reliable and familiar face Harbaugh will want around.

32) KC: Ladd McConkey – WR/Georgia

McConkey is not an automatic first rounder but I can assure you if he gets linked up with a situation like this, his production and week to week impact will be near-automatic. This is the safe bet the KC offense can use in a receiver room full of questions.
I can get behind that  
Sean : 4/24/2024 3:14 pm : link
Either trade up for a QB or trade down. WR at 6 feels like 2018 all over imo.
Trading down to 11 and only picking up a  
BigBlue7 : 4/24/2024 3:14 pm : link
4th and a 2025 2nd would be pretty awful
RE: I can get behind that  
BigBlue7 : 4/24/2024 3:16 pm : link
In comment 16483938 Sean said:
Quote:
Either trade up for a QB or trade down. WR at 6 feels like 2018 all over imo.


Malik Nabers is one of the highest rated overall prospects in the last 3 years. Comparing taking him to the Daniel Jones pick is laughable
That would leave me shocked and underwhelmed  
Chris684 : 4/24/2024 3:16 pm : link
But thank you for all your work Sy. Your draft content is "must have" for me.
Oof  
Danny Kanell : 4/24/2024 3:18 pm : link
.
Acquire future picks in 2025 to use to trade up for  
The_Boss : 4/24/2024 3:18 pm : link
Carson Beck, Riley Leonard, Ewers, DJ Uiagalele, etc…
If we miss out on  
jvm52106 : 4/24/2024 3:18 pm : link
the QB's then I want more from the drop down.
RE: RE: I can get behind that  
Sean : 4/24/2024 3:18 pm : link
In comment 16483943 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 16483938 Sean said:


Quote:


Either trade up for a QB or trade down. WR at 6 feels like 2018 all over imo.



Malik Nabers is one of the highest rated overall prospects in the last 3 years. Comparing taking him to the Daniel Jones pick is laughable

Try again. I said 2018. Saquon Barkley was graded 94 by Sy and many others who viewed him as "generational".
I do agree they need more in the trade downs  
Sean : 4/24/2024 3:19 pm : link
.
RE: Trading down to 11 and only picking up a  
Mike in NJ : 4/24/2024 3:19 pm : link
In comment 16483939 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
4th and a 2025 2nd would be pretty awful


Came to say the same thing, that seems like a really light return. Just sit at 6 and take the best receiver if there isn’t at least a 2024 second involved.
RE: Trading down to 11 and only picking up a  
beatrixkiddo : 4/24/2024 3:20 pm : link
In comment 16483939 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
4th and a 2025 2nd would be pretty awful


Yes it would be.
Penix falling out of 1st round  
beatrixkiddo : 4/24/2024 3:21 pm : link
Have a hard time seeing it especially with 5 other QBs taken in the first round.
Thanks Sy  
GFAN52 : 4/24/2024 3:21 pm : link
Like the first trade down, not the second trade down.
I would turn off the TV  
BigTymer : 4/24/2024 3:25 pm : link
We already have a fast WR who can run in a straight line - no interest in a 2nd.

If JS makes these moves and drafts this way then I'll be joining the camp thinking we need to clean house "yet again". If they aren't willing to pay for a QB and then also aren't willing to take the BPA at a huge position of need at #6, then take the damn OL after a trade down (or CB) but not this...
Ouch  
Lambuth_Special : 4/24/2024 3:26 pm : link
Appreciate the mock. I would probably lose it at this draft. The time for the roster buidling approach was 2022, when Schoen had 11 picks, and 2023, when some of those picks were traded for Waller. Schoen has to get blue chip guys now, whether at QB, WR, or OL. This to me is too risk averse and doesn't really leave me secure that they have a long-term vision.
laughably bad  
battttles : 4/24/2024 3:28 pm : link
the giants way
This draft would make me sad  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/24/2024 3:28 pm : link
1. Not enough for the trade downs, IMO; and

2. I would rather the Giants get one of the two best CBs in the draft, or Byron Murphy.
Don't mind the idea of a double trade down  
Metnut : 4/24/2024 3:35 pm : link
and really like the WR pick there, but think we'd need a good bit more in return. Maybe another day 2 pick somewhere in that haul to make it worthwhile to pass on Nabers/Odunze at #6.
RE: Trading down to 11 and only picking up a  
KDavies : 4/24/2024 3:36 pm : link
In comment 16483939 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
4th and a 2025 2nd would be pretty awful


Terrible. Agreed
I know 6 vs 9 maybe isn't  
EJNNJ : 4/24/2024 3:37 pm : link
worth a "1st" traditionally but Nabers is different...I'd want a '25 1st from Chicago somehow, possibly:

Our # 6 and '25 2nd for Chicago's #9, '25 1st and 3rd

not enough value  
Larry from WV : 4/24/2024 3:39 pm : link
to drop out of the top 10.
I’m not a fan of trading down in general unless  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/24/2024 3:39 pm : link
we’re acquiring a first round pick or multiple day 2 picks. To trade down twice for a fourth round pick and a day 2 pick next year doesn’t interest me at all.

I think this front office would have to be pretty freaking secure in their jobs to make these trades.
Then trade up for Penix  
BleedBlue46 : 4/24/2024 3:41 pm : link
..
I dont mind the trade down but that is not the player I would want  
SteelGiant : 4/24/2024 3:42 pm : link
Unless Giants really love Brian Thomas and dont like Nabers or Odunze this does not make sense to me.

I am not against a trade down, but there is no way I am going WR there. I would much rather get a best in class in another position, lineman, corner, DT. I can find WRs with all the picks I got in the trade downs.
I would prefer  
Mike in NY : 4/24/2024 3:47 pm : link
Arnold or Mitchell instead of Thomas
Sy'56  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/24/2024 3:48 pm : link
I saw a mock that had Chicago trading up to the Giants for both their 2025 2nd rounders. I would consider that, but I'm not sure I give up on Nabers just for one. But maybe that isn't realistic.

Same with the later trade, a 4th rounder sounds like small compensation. Isn't a 3rd rounder more likely (or am I way off with the trade charts)?
RE: Sy'56  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/24/2024 3:49 pm : link
In comment 16484043 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I saw a mock that had Chicago trading up to the Giants for both their 2025 2nd rounders. I would consider that, but I'm not sure I give up on Nabers just for one. But maybe that isn't realistic.

Same with the later trade, a 4th rounder sounds like small compensation. Isn't a 3rd rounder more likely (or am I way off with the trade charts)?


You mean pick nine and two second rounders?
The  
AcidTest : 4/24/2024 3:50 pm : link
amount of compensation (2025 2nd and a 4th this year) is fair. People here overrate what we can expect to get in a trade down. I would nonetheless stay at #6 and take Nabers, although I would be fine with Thomas, Jr. at #11. I would also consider Mitchell since he is the best CB in this draft class.
Would be a disaster from giants perspective  
Tuckrule : 4/24/2024 3:50 pm : link
Brian Thomas Jr. is the most over hyped WR in this class. He’ll be lucky to be a number 2. I’d take Mitchell, Murphy, Arnold and Fautanu in that order over BTJ
Regarding the Compensation for Trading Down  
Capt. Don : 4/24/2024 3:51 pm : link
in 2021 the Dolphins traded from 12 to 6 to take Jaylen Waddle.

Dolphins Received
6th overall (2021)
5th rounder (2021)

Eagles Received
12th overall (2021)
4th rounder (2021)
1st rounder (2022)


RE: Regarding the Compensation for Trading Down  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/24/2024 3:54 pm : link
In comment 16484050 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
in 2021 the Dolphins traded from 12 to 6 to take Jaylen Waddle.

Dolphins Received
6th overall (2021)
5th rounder (2021)

Eagles Received
12th overall (2021)
4th rounder (2021)
1st rounder (2022)



A trade like this I’d do in a heartbeat.
Unless they wind up with Penix in round 2  
Darwinian : 4/24/2024 4:00 pm : link
This is a disaster for the G-Men
shockeyisthebest8056  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/24/2024 4:02 pm : link
My bad, Chicago gave New York one 2025 second rounder and one 2025 third rounder.

So in 2025, Giants would have:

1st rounder
2nd rounder
2nd rounder
3rd rounder
3rd rounder

If the Giants get a 4th round comp pick, they also have two 4th rounders.
glad Sy  
ElitoCanton : 4/24/2024 4:03 pm : link
is not the Giants GM with the actions in this draft.
Sy I noticed the order of your CBs  
AROCK1000 : 4/24/2024 4:05 pm : link
Arnold before Mitchell....
Kinda counter to your post of a few days ago...
I definitely am ok with the Maye or trade down approach  
Heisenberg : 4/24/2024 4:09 pm : link
but going from 6 to 11 and only getting a second and a 4th is not compelling to me. If that's the offer, I pick Nabers or Odunze here.
RE: shockeyisthebest8056  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/24/2024 4:11 pm : link
In comment 16484069 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
My bad, Chicago gave New York one 2025 second rounder and one 2025 third rounder.

So in 2025, Giants would have:

1st rounder
2nd rounder
2nd rounder
3rd rounder
3rd rounder

If the Giants get a 4th round comp pick, they also have two 4th rounders.


I’d do this too. It gives me all the ammo I need to move up for Penix.
I would want a sweetener from the Bears  
Capt. Don : 4/24/2024 4:12 pm : link
2025 2nd rounder and a 4th and Dominique Robinson.

To go from 9 to 11, I would want at least a 3rd.
RE: Trading down to 11 and only picking up a  
BillT : 4/24/2024 4:15 pm : link
In comment 16483939 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
4th and a 2025 2nd would be pretty awful

I’m with the rest of you. Too little when you’re giving up a blue chip prospect.
RE: Trading down to 11 and only picking up a  
santacruzom : 4/24/2024 4:17 pm : link
In comment 16483939 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
4th and a 2025 2nd would be pretty awful


I agree. I'm not sure if that's comparable to similar trades in the past, just seems like a low return. I'd feel better if the 2nd were this draft year.
That 1st round draft  
gmenrule : 4/24/2024 4:22 pm : link
would be a remote thrower for me.
RE: shockeyisthebest8056  
Des51 : 4/24/2024 4:23 pm : link
In comment 16484069 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
My bad, Chicago gave New York one 2025 second rounder and one 2025 third rounder.

So in 2025, Giants would have:

1st rounder
2nd rounder
2nd rounder
3rd rounder
3rd rounder

If the Giants get a 4th round comp pick, they also have two 4th rounders.


Don't forget that Buffalo gets our 2025 6th and we get their 7th, also we get Seattle's 2025 5th but Carolina may get our 5th that's conditional.
After all this so far... that would be a record scratching  
Chef : 4/24/2024 4:24 pm : link
total bummer...
Nyg leadership  
thrunthrublue : 4/24/2024 4:27 pm : link
Created the 2023 6-11 disaster….don’t pile onto that incompetence by passing on the speed, leverage, game changing talent that Nabers can bring to this slow and stupid 31st ranked offense….use the pick you earned by being embarrassingly awful to start becoming better.
I like the idea of trading down, and I think  
LW_Giants : 4/24/2024 4:28 pm : link
this gets close to what it would look like but is still a little light on the compensation.
Now that was a fun mock...  
bw in dc : 4/24/2024 4:28 pm : link
I appreciate the creativity and not playing the draft-by-numbers game.

Of course, I love Brian Thomas and believe the sky is the limit in the right hands.
Brian Thomas led the NCAA in TDs  
allstarjim : 4/24/2024 4:30 pm : link
last year. He's really fast, but consider that speed (4.33 at the combine) also on a nearly 6'3", ~210 lb frame, with a 1.5 flat 10-yard split, a 38.5" vertical, 9.75" hands, and a nearly 80" wingspan. You have a physical freak who is an immediate redzone weapon who can run by people and win contested catches and is underrated after the catch. The route running needs some refinement, but his ceiling is as big as anyone's in the class.

And getting a 2nd for next year is not a bad thing. In this mock, you know that next year very likely you have to be aggressive to get a QB. So having that extra capital is going to be important.

The compensation in the first trade is right on. Can you squeeze a 2025 4th or 5th out of Chicago in that deal? Maybe, but more likely you have to send a pick back...maybe a 5th or 6th next year. But I wouldn't kill the deal over that.

The 2nd trade comp is spot on for the comp in the Rich Hill trade chart...29 points, which is the exact value of the Chargers pick at #110 overall. Again, maybe you can swap picks like a 4th for a 5th next year, a 5th for a 6th, but I don't see these deals as unfair, nor a bad outcome for NYG.

What can you get at pick #110? Maybe a corner who drops like a Renardo Green, or perhaps DT like Mekhi Wingo, or RB such as Ray Davis, Isaac Guerendo, or Braelon Allen.

That's going to be a spot to get a good contributor at a position of need. I don't hate this mock at all.
Would be a disaster  
BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit : 4/24/2024 4:39 pm : link
For the giants if it played out this way.

At some point you need blue chips.
I think Eric is right  
Des51 : 4/24/2024 4:39 pm : link
when he said that no matter what the Giants do in this draft, there'll be a lot of unhappy fans.
RE: Would be a disaster  
bw in dc : 4/24/2024 4:43 pm : link
In comment 16484166 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
Quote:
For the giants if it played out this way.

At some point you need blue chips.


Brian Thomas is a blue chip. Too much groupthink on these WRs. There should at least be a "Big Four", not just this "Big Three"...
Is 110  
Breeze_94 : 4/24/2024 4:50 pm : link
And a 2nd next year (from a team I think will be in the latter half of the round) enough to make up the difference between Nabers + BTJ.

Personally, I’d rather have the better player. Nabers and Odunze are players that a NFL passing game will be run through. BTJ, to me, is a complementary piece who has a great ceiling as a big play guy, but may lack some of the necessary nuance to be a high volume #1 target in an NFL passing attack. I think the Giants already have 2 receivers (Hyatt, Slayton) who fit that mold (low volume, big play receivers) though obviously BTJ is more gifted.
I can get behind that,  
barens : 4/24/2024 4:50 pm : link
would you foresee the Giants trading up in the second round to secure Michael Penix?
RE: RE: Would be a disaster  
allstarjim : 4/24/2024 4:57 pm : link
In comment 16484172 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16484166 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:


Quote:


For the giants if it played out this way.

At some point you need blue chips.



Brian Thomas is a blue chip. Too much groupthink on these WRs. There should at least be a "Big Four", not just this "Big Three"...


Agreed. Brian Thomas would be the #1 receiver in the draft last year, and in 2022 would probably be #2. In that draft I'd have him over London and Olave and behind Garrett Wilson.
RE: Penix falling out of 1st round  
Optimus-NY : 4/24/2024 4:59 pm : link
In comment 16483965 beatrixkiddo said:
Quote:
Have a hard time seeing it especially with 5 other QBs taken in the first round.


I think the Raiders are gonna take Penix if he's there at 13.
both trade downs are too light and dont see them taking thomas  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2024 5:07 pm : link
could see them trading back, twice even, but in that scenario i think they take Alt at #9 or whoever their 2nd best defensive player is. no way do they drop down in quality to Thomas just to pick up a 4th.

last year to go from #6 to #12 detroit got pick #34 and that return was considered light. that's a more valuable return than a 2nd one year out and a 4th.
RE: I do agree they need more in the trade downs  
56goat : 4/24/2024 5:08 pm : link
In comment 16483955 Sean said:
Quote:
.


Agree, I would want more to trade down. I was thinking this may be one of the Giants most divisive drafts in recent memory, but then 2018 & 2019 popped into my brain, so "nevermind".
RE: RE: RE: I can get behind that  
mfjmfj : 4/24/2024 5:11 pm : link
In comment 16483953 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 16483943 BigBlue7 said:


Quote:


In comment 16483938 Sean said:


Quote:


Either trade up for a QB or trade down. WR at 6 feels like 2018 all over imo.



Malik Nabers is one of the highest rated overall prospects in the last 3 years. Comparing taking him to the Daniel Jones pick is laughable


Try again. I said 2018. Saquon Barkley was graded 94 by Sy and many others who viewed him as "generational".
The difference is positional value. WRs are worth roughly twice as much as running backs (based on second contract size) so it makes sense to take a "generational" WR, but not a "generational" RB. Just like I wouldn't take the greatest kicker or punter of all time. Or in today's NFL the greatest middle linebacker.
We (fans) suffered a LOT to earn the right to pick #6 this year  
FranknWeezer : 4/24/2024 5:24 pm : link
so to move down and pass up on a blue chipper, I would not be happy with so slight a return.
Also, aren't the odds pretty slim that NYG selects a first rounder  
FranknWeezer : 4/24/2024 5:26 pm : link
with whom they've never even met/visited? Didn't we learn anything from the Toney pick?
Nice work Sy, but  
Sky King : 4/24/2024 5:38 pm : link
The Vikings are NOT trading up for JJM.
Man I really need to get better at mock drafting I guess  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 5:43 pm : link
Ha.

Anyway - I like to throw some different thoughts out there. Do we need to see Nabers or Maye for the 75th time?

Regarding the trades - I think fans always expect more than what they end up getting. Everyone thinks teams will line up giving a bunch of future firsts to move up 2-3 spots? For a non-QB? Come on.

Trades come down to three things.

1) Finding teams willing to give up multiple picks for one player

2) Finding other teams that are willing to trade multiple picks to create a bidding war

3) The value of the player and separation between him and the other player a team can get without trading up.

I believe the trades are fair value - NYG could get a bit more. But teams trading up 3 and 2 spots for a WR or OT will not be a huge price. Fans need to temper their expectations.

If I am NYG - I would rather a 3rd from LAC in 2025 than a 4th in 2024.
RE: Sy'56  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 5:44 pm : link
In comment 16484043 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I saw a mock that had Chicago trading up to the Giants for both their 2025 2nd rounders. I would consider that, but I'm not sure I give up on Nabers just for one. But maybe that isn't realistic.

Same with the later trade, a 4th rounder sounds like small compensation. Isn't a 3rd rounder more likely (or am I way off with the trade charts)?


The chart I use would say that is an overpay.
RE: laughably bad  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 5:45 pm : link
In comment 16483984 battttles said:
Quote:
the giants way


Short term-minded ^
RE: I would prefer  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 5:46 pm : link
In comment 16484041 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
Arnold or Mitchell instead of Thomas


I could see that, I would sign for it.

But I don't see Schoen going round 1 CB two straight years because of economics
RE: RE: Would be a disaster  
JT039 : 4/24/2024 5:47 pm : link
In comment 16484172 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16484166 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:


Quote:


For the giants if it played out this way.

At some point you need blue chips.



Brian Thomas is a blue chip. Too much groupthink on these WRs. There should at least be a "Big Four", not just this "Big Three"...


If his sugar can be controlled…. I’m throwing Mitchell in there too. Size, speed, attitude.
RE: Nyg leadership  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 5:48 pm : link
In comment 16484140 thrunthrublue said:
Quote:
Created the 2023 6-11 disaster….don’t pile onto that incompetence by passing on the speed, leverage, game changing talent that Nabers can bring to this slow and stupid 31st ranked offense….use the pick you earned by being embarrassingly awful to start becoming better.


I think you need to go read up on Thomas a bit more.
Sy, thank you for throwing your mock draft in the ring...  
KingBlue : 4/24/2024 6:09 pm : link
Of course Mock Drafts are for entertainment only and the real draft is subject to moves that noone can predict with a high degree of certainty, therefore, you just for fun make a mock draft.

Anyways, please forgive all the geniuses that mock your mock draft espousing certainties about underpays and the like...they know better than you.

Nice effort... I enjoyed it.
RE: RE: RE: Would be a disaster  
bw in dc : 4/24/2024 6:16 pm : link
In comment 16484367 JT039 said:
Quote:

If his sugar can be controlled…. I’m throwing Mitchell in there too. Size, speed, attitude.


Really? He's got the desired size-speed ratio piece, but I'm not sure his consistency and production support a big investment.
RE: RE: Nyg leadership  
56goat : 4/24/2024 6:16 pm : link
In comment 16484368 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16484140 thrunthrublue said:


Quote:


Created the 2023 6-11 disaster….don’t pile onto that incompetence by passing on the speed, leverage, game changing talent that Nabers can bring to this slow and stupid 31st ranked offense….use the pick you earned by being embarrassingly awful to start becoming better.



I think you need to go read up on Thomas a bit more.


Thomas I'm OK with, it just hard to stomach the QB room as it sits now for another season.
RE: RE: RE: Nyg leadership  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 6:19 pm : link
In comment 16484416 56goat said:
Quote:
In comment 16484368 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16484140 thrunthrublue said:


Quote:


Created the 2023 6-11 disaster….don’t pile onto that incompetence by passing on the speed, leverage, game changing talent that Nabers can bring to this slow and stupid 31st ranked offense….use the pick you earned by being embarrassingly awful to start becoming better.



I think you need to go read up on Thomas a bit more.



Thomas I'm OK with, it just hard to stomach the QB room as it sits now for another season.


I get it - just not sure the aggressive trade up is the right move with the amount of holes on this team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Nyg leadership  
56goat : 4/24/2024 6:24 pm : link
In comment 16484421 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16484416 56goat said:


Quote:


In comment 16484368 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16484140 thrunthrublue said:


Quote:


Created the 2023 6-11 disaster….don’t pile onto that incompetence by passing on the speed, leverage, game changing talent that Nabers can bring to this slow and stupid 31st ranked offense….use the pick you earned by being embarrassingly awful to start becoming better.



I think you need to go read up on Thomas a bit more.



Thomas I'm OK with, it just hard to stomach the QB room as it sits now for another season.



I get it - just not sure the aggressive trade up is the right move with the amount of holes on this team.


Can't argue that point. Thanks Sy for all the info you provide here.
Sy how much do you lean your grades vs what you think teams like?  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2024 6:25 pm : link
for example at #9 the only player on board for NYG that they visited is Alt. He was also one of your highest grades remaining, and generally the consensus is even higher on him (he's 8th overall consensus, so turner snuck ahead of him).

the first trade gets close to the level of compensation the giants would take to move back. A 2nd from CHI in 2025 is a very valuable pick and at #6 if their top remaining grades are same as yours with Odunze (91), Nabers (90), Bowers (88), Alt (87), Fashanu (88) they have some reasonable choices in the all pro range. They had visited 4 remaining players in Odunze, Nabers, Alt, Turner, so at least 1 of them will be left. so they safely either get a top WR, their top OL, or their top defensive player. so trade #1 reasonable from all angles. Alt (or whoever their top OL is) + the bears 2025 second is a Thursday anyone should be happy with.

the second trade however seems too clever by half. i think it would take a lot more than a 4th round pick to drop back outside of the top guys they visited. that move only makes sense for someone who likes thomas far more than the consensus since they presumably already passed on the higher graded receivers in part bc of positional value/depth.
RE: Sy how much do you lean your grades vs what you think teams like?  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 6:30 pm : link
In comment 16484433 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
for example at #9 the only player on board for NYG that they visited is Alt. He was also one of your highest grades remaining, and generally the consensus is even higher on him (he's 8th overall consensus, so turner snuck ahead of him).

the first trade gets close to the level of compensation the giants would take to move back. A 2nd from CHI in 2025 is a very valuable pick and at #6 if their top remaining grades are same as yours with Odunze (91), Nabers (90), Bowers (88), Alt (87), Fashanu (88) they have some reasonable choices in the all pro range. They had visited 4 remaining players in Odunze, Nabers, Alt, Turner, so at least 1 of them will be left. so they safely either get a top WR, their top OL, or their top defensive player. so trade #1 reasonable from all angles. Alt (or whoever their top OL is) + the bears 2025 second is a Thursday anyone should be happy with.

the second trade however seems too clever by half. i think it would take a lot more than a 4th round pick to drop back outside of the top guys they visited. that move only makes sense for someone who likes thomas far more than the consensus since they presumably already passed on the higher graded receivers in part bc of positional value/depth.


For this mock it is all about what I think they would do.

I can see the point of avoiding guys they have not visited with. I do believe there is some quiet but strong interest in Thomas around the league. Not sure teams wanna show their cards on him.

The issue with expecting more than a 4th (or 2025 3rd) to trade back two spots is the fact there may not be much competition for LAC to have to bid against. And NYG is getting the same guy at 11 that they would likely want at 9 in this scenario. Just not a ton of ground to stand on from a bargaining perspective.

That said - I try to be conservative on trades because most fans of teams do the opposite.
Thomas was my #1 target  
section125 : 4/24/2024 6:32 pm : link
if they trade back in that 9-12 gap. They get their #1 WR. So I am happy with that.

I think I would rather have a pick this year in the 2nd or 3rd round vs next year. But yeah, if Schoen is building a stockpile of picks to move up next year then ok.
thanks for the reply - i dont have an issue w the comp you projected  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2024 6:36 pm : link
though i would note the giants gave up almost as much to move up 1 slot in the 20's last year.

i just think it's a leap that they'd take a non-consequential return like that so high in the draft with a top player they visited at a position of need still on the board. based on their history with visits it would be an off the board selection, at a position where they just passed on their pick of 2 undisputed top tier prospects.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Nyg leadership  
BigBlueShock : 4/24/2024 6:38 pm : link
In comment 16484421 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16484416 56goat said:


Quote:


In comment 16484368 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16484140 thrunthrublue said:


Quote:


Created the 2023 6-11 disaster….don’t pile onto that incompetence by passing on the speed, leverage, game changing talent that Nabers can bring to this slow and stupid 31st ranked offense….use the pick you earned by being embarrassingly awful to start becoming better.



I think you need to go read up on Thomas a bit more.



Thomas I'm OK with, it just hard to stomach the QB room as it sits now for another season.



I get it - just not sure the aggressive trade up is the right move with the amount of holes on this team.

Come on Sy. I love ya man but you of all people should know that the drat isn’t about “plugging holes”. Especially if you’re in a position to get a QB you think can be the answer. Premium talent trumps plugging holes every single time
RE: This draft would make me sad  
prdave73 : 4/24/2024 6:42 pm : link
In comment 16483988 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
1. Not enough for the trade downs, IMO; and

2. I would rather the Giants get one of the two best CBs in the draft, or Byron Murphy.


I have to agree because the WR position is deep in this draft and your getting an excellent defensive player to fill one of the major holes in the defense!
I would take one of the top  
kelly : 4/24/2024 6:45 pm : link
Cornerbacks.

Premium position. With our qb situation we arent scoring many points regardless of who our receivers are.

Have to win ugly.
But we get it..  
prdave73 : 4/24/2024 6:47 pm : link
It’s just a different mock draft from the usual lol. Thanks, Sy!
RE: thanks for the reply - i dont have an issue w the comp you projected  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 6:48 pm : link
In comment 16484455 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
though i would note the giants gave up almost as much to move up 1 slot in the 20's last year.

i just think it's a leap that they'd take a non-consequential return like that so high in the draft with a top player they visited at a position of need still on the board. based on their history with visits it would be an off the board selection, at a position where they just passed on their pick of 2 undisputed top tier prospects.


Because there was serious competition to move up
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Nyg leadership  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 6:50 pm : link
In comment 16484460 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 16484421 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16484416 56goat said:


Quote:


In comment 16484368 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16484140 thrunthrublue said:


Quote:


Created the 2023 6-11 disaster….don’t pile onto that incompetence by passing on the speed, leverage, game changing talent that Nabers can bring to this slow and stupid 31st ranked offense….use the pick you earned by being embarrassingly awful to start becoming better.



I think you need to go read up on Thomas a bit more.



Thomas I'm OK with, it just hard to stomach the QB room as it sits now for another season.



I get it - just not sure the aggressive trade up is the right move with the amount of holes on this team.


Come on Sy. I love ya man but you of all people should know that the drat isn’t about “plugging holes”. Especially if you’re in a position to get a QB you think can be the answer. Premium talent trumps plugging holes every single time


I'm not sure you're understanding where I man coming from.

In this mock - NYG is not in a scenario where they can get one of the QBs. NE will not trade - and MIN has more ammo to move up to #5 overall.

The goal of trading back this year is to sweeten up the deal they can create to move up in 2025.
RE: RE: thanks for the reply - i dont have an issue w the comp you projected  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2024 7:04 pm : link
In comment 16484477 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16484455 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


though i would note the giants gave up almost as much to move up 1 slot in the 20's last year.

i just think it's a leap that they'd take a non-consequential return like that so high in the draft with a top player they visited at a position of need still on the board. based on their history with visits it would be an off the board selection, at a position where they just passed on their pick of 2 undisputed top tier prospects.



Because there was serious competition to move up


again not arguing the comp as much as the logic of trading back from the top 10 for just a 4th. 2 years ago schoen got himself an extra 4th trading back 2 slots from 36 to 38 in the 2nd round. he then did it a second time going from 38 to 43 for a higher 4th. so he got 2 fourths just by dropping a total of 7 slots on day 2.

so why force the trade of a top 10 pick if you are getting such a weak return and being left in the mock with a player who hasnt really been connected to the nyg at all (and at the expense of one they visited)?
RE: RE: RE: thanks for the reply - i dont have an issue w the comp you projected  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 7:07 pm : link
In comment 16484509 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16484477 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16484455 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


though i would note the giants gave up almost as much to move up 1 slot in the 20's last year.

i just think it's a leap that they'd take a non-consequential return like that so high in the draft with a top player they visited at a position of need still on the board. based on their history with visits it would be an off the board selection, at a position where they just passed on their pick of 2 undisputed top tier prospects.



Because there was serious competition to move up



again not arguing the comp as much as the logic of trading back from the top 10 for just a 4th. 2 years ago schoen got himself an extra 4th trading back 2 slots from 36 to 38 in the 2nd round. he then did it a second time going from 38 to 43 for a higher 4th. so he got 2 fourths just by dropping a total of 7 slots on day 2.

so why force the trade of a top 10 pick if you are getting such a weak return and being left in the mock with a player who hasnt really been connected to the nyg at all (and at the expense of one they visited)?


Because they don't want Alt and don't want Bowers (in this scenario) - so they still get their guy but net an extra pick.
If it all goes this way, I am doing everything I can to get Penix in  
PatersonPlank : 4/24/2024 7:13 pm : link
the 2nd round. Penix and Thomas is quite the haul for us.
RE: RE: RE: RE: thanks for the reply - i dont have an issue w the comp you projected  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2024 7:14 pm : link
In comment 16484517 Sy'56 said:
Quote:



Because they don't want Alt and don't want Bowers (in this scenario) - so they still get their guy but net an extra pick.


ok i guess that's the part im curious about then, what about thomas makes you think he's their guy over alt who they visited and most (including you) have rated higher? honestly asking bc maybe im missing something.

you have him 13th, consensus has him 18th, feldman/mcginn/etc seem have the sentiment that there's a big gap between the top 2. if any team has a shot at odunze/nabers and passes on them, i would think part of that reason is bc of the depth of the wr position since they are such good prospects. i wouldnt expect that team to then take a different wr that most have significantly behind them just 5 picks later.
Eric  
Sy'56 : 4/24/2024 7:23 pm : link
I don't get too tied down by the 30 visits.

I don't think they're ready to give up on Neal - they just drafted him top 7 two years ago.

I do think they know they need another vertical threat with real speed. Thomas brings an incredibly rare blend speed and size. He led the country in TDs. He led the country in 20+ yard TDs. He is still early on the progressive curve compared to others.
Please God, no  
SimmsToBavaro : 4/24/2024 7:38 pm : link
That’s a remote thrower
RE: Eric  
jvm52106 : 4/24/2024 7:40 pm : link
In comment 16484583 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
I don't get too tied down by the 30 visits.

I don't think they're ready to give up on Neal - they just drafted him top 7 two years ago.

I do think they know they need another vertical threat with real speed. Thomas brings an incredibly rare blend speed and size. He led the country in TDs. He led the country in 20+ yard TDs. He is still early on the progressive curve compared to others.


Well out of Jones's 62 Td passes Jones has 24 over 20 yards- 24...
RE: I would take one of the top  
prdave73 : 4/24/2024 7:44 pm : link
In comment 16484469 kelly said:
Quote:
Cornerbacks.

Premium position. With our qb situation we arent scoring many points regardless of who our receivers are.

Have to win ugly.


Agree.
Much simpler to trade back  
AROCK1000 : 4/24/2024 7:46 pm : link
To 11-13,and get him there
11 &23 would get CB + WR4
Or any variance of need
RE: RE: laughably bad  
battttles : 4/24/2024 7:51 pm : link
In comment 16484362 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16483984 battttles said:


Quote:


the giants way



Short term-minded ^


brother this team has been the worst in football for almost a decade. there are teams every year that make 3 or 4 good decisions in draft/fa/coaching and fully turn it around -- it's a reasonable expectation for this franchise and we're still waiting. I understand the stale Nabers/Maye mock stuff, but what you're getting back for moving out of 6 feels thin, especially if Nabers is viewed by some as WR1 and maybe the top overall player in the class.
RE: Eric  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2024 8:03 pm : link
In comment 16484583 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
I don't get too tied down by the 30 visits.

I don't think they're ready to give up on Neal - they just drafted him top 7 two years ago.

I do think they know they need another vertical threat with real speed. Thomas brings an incredibly rare blend speed and size. He led the country in TDs. He led the country in 20+ yard TDs. He is still early on the progressive curve compared to others.


I think the top of the draft is about not missing, and Alt seems like a great value at 9. The athleticism/pedigree is top tier and grades all line up. I don’t think they visited him for no reason, so while I agree it’s early to give up on Neal, I’m not sure it’s too early to make him earn the RT spot or kick him to RG. $7m for elumeanor is an expensive 6th OL but if any team could use a good 6th OL it’s this one.

One of the selling points w Neal a couple years ago was that with all Thomas’ injuries having someone who could flip over was appealing. I think the horse left the barn on that with Neal.
Now we’re cookin  
uncledave : 4/24/2024 8:36 pm : link
With gasoline. Love it
2007 - All 7 Rookies....  
bklynGman : 4/24/2024 8:42 pm : link
Played in that Super Bowl.. Stay where we're at, 6th pick - Nabers... Done <
Lemons out of lemonade  
j_rud : 4/24/2024 9:27 pm : link
Folks who are locked into hearing just a few names gotta accept we're at the mercy of the 5 GMs ahead of us. I'd hope the compensation might be a bit more robust. I know the numbers work, I dunno, just feels light for moving down 5 spots in this draft. But I do love Thomas Jr.
Looks like you had fun with this, Sy.  
CT Charlie : 4/24/2024 10:00 pm : link
I love the fact that you, who spend a huge chunk of your life evaluating players for the draft, acknowledge that:
a) ultimately the draft is a crapshoot, and
b) we fans should just enjoy it as entertainment
Brian Thomas Jr.  
Bingo : 4/24/2024 10:14 pm : link
Is the WR I hope the Giants pick. I wouldn't gamble with trading down. I'd stay at 6 and take the guy you want. A bird in hand....
Hi Sy  
fanatic II : 4/24/2024 10:30 pm : link
You know I'm a Dallas fan. I personally like Barton, but if Mims is available, you have to go with the tackle over the inside player. If Mims is gone Barton would be the next choice followed by JPJ.

I think Dallas goes OL, RB, LB.
RE: Acquire future picks in 2025 to use to trade up for  
cokeduplt : 4/25/2024 6:57 am : link
In comment 16483951 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Carson Beck, Riley Leonard, Ewers, DJ Uiagalele, etc…


Dj uiagele? I’d rather play Devito.
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