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| No position generates more interest — and with it, passion — than quarterback, and opinions might vary more this year than in any I can remember. I know NFL people who view Maye and Michigan’s J.J. McCarthy anywhere from worthy of a top-five pick to outside of the first round. The best reason I can offer for the variance is it might depend on which games each evaluator watched. That being said, I think all of the quarterbacks outside of Caleb Williams this year are, to varying degrees, being overvalued. Outside of Williams, I don’t see any as a lock to be a franchise quarterback, and that includes LSU’s Jayden Daniels. But for the sake of this discussion, I see Maye as the most overvalued. His biggest asset, and probably what I hear most often as his top redeeming quality, is his size. Clearly, that can’t be argued: 6-foot-4 and 223 pounds is the frame we are all looking for, so you’ll get no dispute there from me. But the traits that follow are mostly ordinary. That includes processing (questionable decision-making), accuracy (very inconsistent) and his semi-long release, which slows his ability to get the ball out of his hand. And yes, I watched some of the 2022 season as well. I struggled most with the frequency of his misses and his decision-making under pressure. I think he can improve on some of these things, but it’s going to take time, and it requires a leap of faith that I’m not ready to make. Therefore, I would be nervous about selecting him in the top five. I just don’t see elite traits beyond his measurables. |
So, there is a lot there to develop in the right hands.
Yes, his stats and tape under pressure show Maye tends to get flustered and make mistakes whilr locking onto his first read although you can't deny Maye's upside.
This has been a big concern of mine and I've liked JJM more since before any experts like Sy, Mueller or Simms said they liked JJM more than Maye. There's valid reasons for NE to be trying to get as much as they can in a trade down.
Nevertheless, Maye's upside is undeniable and if Schdabs believed in him enough to trade a king's ransom then I'd have confidence and excitement for the pick.
Yeah you can say there are tools to work with, but going to the NFL to learn how to play QB is a tough way to live. For every Josh Allen how many Blaine Gabberts and DeShone Kizers are there? They're big guys with tools too.
So, there is a lot there to develop in the right hands.
Absolutely, the upside is undeniable and I'm not on one side or the other about him. I do think a lot of people here overlook some potential issues he has that could be a major problem in the NFL. These issues are actually the main reason (beyond injuries) that Daniel Jones has struggled: he gets flustered by pressure and locks onto first read and makes mistakes and doesn't make big plays. The pressure in the NFL is enormous, QBs get under 2.5 seconds to throw on average. A quick and efficient mind when under pressure is one of the paramount traits of NFL QBs. And that's one of the reasons I like JJM so much. I'd be happy with either of them to move on from DJ. Similar to how you're lukewarm on JJM, but would still be happy with him over DJ. I feel the same about Maye (albeit Maye would likely cost a hell of a lot more than JJM). Maybe we can both be happy and NE will just take JJM at 3 so we can get Maye for less and I can't think of what ifs about JJM ha.
JJM has a pretty low floor.
Yeah you can say there are tools to work with, but going to the NFL to learn how to play QB is a tough way to live. For every Josh Allen how many Blaine Gabberts and DeShone Kizers are there? They're big guys with tools too.
I also think the point about his release is valid. He has a wind-up to his throwing motion that isn't ideal. The footwork, throwing motion and mechanical stuff can be fixed potentially. The big concern I have is if he really gets flustered mentally in the pocket locking onto his first read and making mistakes because of it. That is what scares me, because that wouldn't be easy to coach out of him.
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has a higher ceiling than JJM but a lower floor IMO. I'm fine taking either at #6, and in fact would prefer to do so given the importance of the position. But I don't want to make a major move up for either. Both have too many questions to justify giving up the draft capital and possibly players that would be required to do so.
JJM has a pretty low floor.
I don't agree and many pros don't either. If Maye's issue is getting flustered mentally under pressure which leads to him making mistakes and locking onto first read, that could be disastrous.
I see JJM being plus in these categories and many pros do too.
Lawrence was praised for his high football acumen/decision making at Clemson. How well has that conveyed? Mac Jones was praised for his decision coming out of Tuscaloosa. He's now a back-up in the NFL. Tua was praised for how well he could process at the college level. He was top five in interceptions thrown this year. And check out his overall TD-INT ratio. I remember Sy heaping praise on Haskins for his decision making. How did that work out?
I have other examples, but you get the point...
Lawrence was praised for his high football acumen/decision making at Clemson. How well has that conveyed? Mac Jones was praised for his decision coming out of Tuscaloosa. He's now a back-up in the NFL. Tua was praised for how well he could process at the college level. He was top five in interceptions thrown this year. And check out his overall TD-INT ratio. I remember Sy heaping praise on Haskins for his decision making. How did that work out?
I have other examples, but you get the point...
I think it's extremely hard to predict. And with JJM, it's more of a sense I get when watching his tape that he's good at this. I think his hockey and lacrosse background might help. Nevertheless, there's no surefire way to know how these guys minds operate when under fire in the action, so you see a lot of guys with prospect analysis saying they make good decisions and that could relate to many things (not making stupid decisions, hitting check downs properly, etc). That's not what I'm referring to when I'm talking about how their minds operate under pressure in the NFL, because there's always pressure. And there's really know what to know how to identify guys that will end up being good with this. It's an intuitive thing with nothing close to an exact science. What I see from Maye's tape worries me about this and the stats back that up. What I see from JJM's tape makes me feel like there's a good chance he could be good at this paramount trait in the NFL. Nevertheless, I admit there is no way to know this at all for JJM and Maye or any other prospects.
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You show me something that will prove with a high probability that good decision-making leads to good decision-making in the NFL, I'll subscribe more to your view.
Lawrence was praised for his high football acumen/decision making at Clemson. How well has that conveyed? Mac Jones was praised for his decision coming out of Tuscaloosa. He's now a back-up in the NFL. Tua was praised for how well he could process at the college level. He was top five in interceptions thrown this year. And check out his overall TD-INT ratio. I remember Sy heaping praise on Haskins for his decision making. How did that work out?
I have other examples, but you get the point...
I think it's extremely hard to predict. And with JJM, it's more of a sense I get when watching his tape that he's good at this. I think his hockey and lacrosse background might help. Nevertheless, there's no surefire way to know how these guys minds operate when under fire in the action, so you see a lot of guys with prospect analysis saying they make good decisions and that could relate to many things (not making stupid decisions, hitting check downs properly, etc). That's not what I'm referring to when I'm talking about how their minds operate under pressure in the NFL, because there's always pressure. And there's really know what to know how to identify guys that will end up being good with this. It's an intuitive thing with nothing close to an exact science. What I see from Maye's tape worries me about this and the stats back that up. What I see from JJM's tape makes me feel like there's a good chance he could be good at this paramount trait in the NFL. Nevertheless, I admit there is no way to know this at all for JJM and Maye or any other prospects.
I agree with BW's overall point. Just because JJM shows solid decision-making in college, don't be so sure he can do the same in the NFL. Why? Because he may not be able to execute on those decisions at a high enough level. That's why traits are so important. With Williams and Maye you know they have the traits. The question for them do they have the head for the game and consistency. Williams is a lot closer to a finished product than Maye is. With Daniels, he has a lot of good traits but they're better on the running side than the passing side. But his record of production shows he is just about ready to contribute. McCarthy is shaky on the traits and the production. There is a lot unknown about him.
I definitely have him behind Maye and probably Penix.
That would be a fucking mindblower.
Would be a big shocker, but I wouldn't be as surprised as most people if Maye slid.
I'm loving the mystery of this draft. Schoen has done a great job at that this year. We have some asshats saying we wouldn't even take Maye at 6 and we love JJM, others saying we wouldn't take JJM even at 6, some saying we love Odunze and don't like Nabers due to character concerns while others saying we love Nabers and not Odunze.
For all the vitriol levied at the Daniel Jones pick, it’s not like it cost the Giants a 2019 top 10 and a 2020 top 5 (which turned out to be Andrew Thomas).
Overpaying for an eventual bust QB takes a franchise from quarterback Purgatory to years in quarterback Hell.
Mayes out of the Top 10?
Sounds like Charles Davis needs to submit a 4th Mock tomorrow morning and fix this.
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In comment 16484471 bw in dc said:
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You show me something that will prove with a high probability that good decision-making leads to good decision-making in the NFL, I'll subscribe more to your view.
Lawrence was praised for his high football acumen/decision making at Clemson. How well has that conveyed? Mac Jones was praised for his decision coming out of Tuscaloosa. He's now a back-up in the NFL. Tua was praised for how well he could process at the college level. He was top five in interceptions thrown this year. And check out his overall TD-INT ratio. I remember Sy heaping praise on Haskins for his decision making. How did that work out?
I have other examples, but you get the point...
I think it's extremely hard to predict. And with JJM, it's more of a sense I get when watching his tape that he's good at this. I think his hockey and lacrosse background might help. Nevertheless, there's no surefire way to know how these guys minds operate when under fire in the action, so you see a lot of guys with prospect analysis saying they make good decisions and that could relate to many things (not making stupid decisions, hitting check downs properly, etc). That's not what I'm referring to when I'm talking about how their minds operate under pressure in the NFL, because there's always pressure. And there's really know what to know how to identify guys that will end up being good with this. It's an intuitive thing with nothing close to an exact science. What I see from Maye's tape worries me about this and the stats back that up. What I see from JJM's tape makes me feel like there's a good chance he could be good at this paramount trait in the NFL. Nevertheless, I admit there is no way to know this at all for JJM and Maye or any other prospects.
I agree with BW's overall point. Just because JJM shows solid decision-making in college, don't be so sure he can do the same in the NFL. Why? Because he may not be able to execute on those decisions at a high enough level. That's why traits are so important. With Williams and Maye you know they have the traits. The question for them do they have the head for the game and consistency. Williams is a lot closer to a finished product than Maye is. With Daniels, he has a lot of good traits but they're better on the running side than the passing side. But his record of production shows he is just about ready to contribute. McCarthy is shaky on the traits and the production. There is a lot unknown about him.
I definitely have him behind Maye and probably Penix.
As I just said in the post. It's nearly impossible to predict how a QB prospects mind will work at the NFL level. If this was somehow predictable like a science, you wouldn't see all the misses. And what I'm referring to isn't just decision making. I'm referring to something much more complex than that in how a QBs mind responds to the pressure both mental and physical of having 2.5 seconds or less to make a proper move with 300+ lb beast of human beings bearing down on you. I have a feeling based on the tape and stats that JJM might do well (once again there's no way to know). Conversely, I have serious concerns about Maye in this area based on the tape and stats. I noticed this first on tape with both JJM and Maye, then I saw the stats later.
For all the vitriol levied at the Daniel Jones pick, it’s not like it cost the Giants a 2019 top 10 and a 2020 top 5 (which turned out to be Andrew Thomas).
Overpaying for an eventual bust QB takes a franchise from quarterback Purgatory to years in quarterback Hell.
That is a good point. While I would be excited and believe in Schdabs if they did this, I would also be very concerned. Valid point brought up about Andrew Thomas drafted the following year.
For all the vitriol levied at the Daniel Jones pick, it’s not like it cost the Giants a 2019 top 10 and a 2020 top 5 (which turned out to be Andrew Thomas).
Overpaying for an eventual bust QB takes a franchise from quarterback Purgatory to years in quarterback Hell.
I think a trade up would be exciting. It means they have that conviction.
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In comment 16484487 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16484471 bw in dc said:
Quote:
You show me something that will prove with a high probability that good decision-making leads to good decision-making in the NFL, I'll subscribe more to your view.
Lawrence was praised for his high football acumen/decision making at Clemson. How well has that conveyed? Mac Jones was praised for his decision coming out of Tuscaloosa. He's now a back-up in the NFL. Tua was praised for how well he could process at the college level. He was top five in interceptions thrown this year. And check out his overall TD-INT ratio. I remember Sy heaping praise on Haskins for his decision making. How did that work out?
I have other examples, but you get the point...
I think it's extremely hard to predict. And with JJM, it's more of a sense I get when watching his tape that he's good at this. I think his hockey and lacrosse background might help. Nevertheless, there's no surefire way to know how these guys minds operate when under fire in the action, so you see a lot of guys with prospect analysis saying they make good decisions and that could relate to many things (not making stupid decisions, hitting check downs properly, etc). That's not what I'm referring to when I'm talking about how their minds operate under pressure in the NFL, because there's always pressure. And there's really know what to know how to identify guys that will end up being good with this. It's an intuitive thing with nothing close to an exact science. What I see from Maye's tape worries me about this and the stats back that up. What I see from JJM's tape makes me feel like there's a good chance he could be good at this paramount trait in the NFL. Nevertheless, I admit there is no way to know this at all for JJM and Maye or any other prospects.
I agree with BW's overall point. Just because JJM shows solid decision-making in college, don't be so sure he can do the same in the NFL. Why? Because he may not be able to execute on those decisions at a high enough level. That's why traits are so important. With Williams and Maye you know they have the traits. The question for them do they have the head for the game and consistency. Williams is a lot closer to a finished product than Maye is. With Daniels, he has a lot of good traits but they're better on the running side than the passing side. But his record of production shows he is just about ready to contribute. McCarthy is shaky on the traits and the production. There is a lot unknown about him.
I definitely have him behind Maye and probably Penix.
As I just said in the post. It's nearly impossible to predict how a QB prospects mind will work at the NFL level. If this was somehow predictable like a science, you wouldn't see all the misses. And what I'm referring to isn't just decision making. I'm referring to something much more complex than that in how a QBs mind responds to the pressure both mental and physical of having 2.5 seconds or less to make a proper move with 300+ lb beast of human beings bearing down on you. I have a feeling based on the tape and stats that JJM might do well (once again there's no way to know). Conversely, I have serious concerns about Maye in this area based on the tape and stats. I noticed this first on tape with both JJM and Maye, then I saw the stats later.
At the end of the day this might be just a 2 QB draft - CW and JD. I think they both have a chance to be franchise difference-makers pretty soon. The rest of these guys are a bigger crapshoot.
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In comment 16484511 Darwinian said:
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In comment 16484487 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16484471 bw in dc said:
Quote:
You show me something that will prove with a high probability that good decision-making leads to good decision-making in the NFL, I'll subscribe more to your view.
Lawrence was praised for his high football acumen/decision making at Clemson. How well has that conveyed? Mac Jones was praised for his decision coming out of Tuscaloosa. He's now a back-up in the NFL. Tua was praised for how well he could process at the college level. He was top five in interceptions thrown this year. And check out his overall TD-INT ratio. I remember Sy heaping praise on Haskins for his decision making. How did that work out?
I have other examples, but you get the point...
I think it's extremely hard to predict. And with JJM, it's more of a sense I get when watching his tape that he's good at this. I think his hockey and lacrosse background might help. Nevertheless, there's no surefire way to know how these guys minds operate when under fire in the action, so you see a lot of guys with prospect analysis saying they make good decisions and that could relate to many things (not making stupid decisions, hitting check downs properly, etc). That's not what I'm referring to when I'm talking about how their minds operate under pressure in the NFL, because there's always pressure. And there's really know what to know how to identify guys that will end up being good with this. It's an intuitive thing with nothing close to an exact science. What I see from Maye's tape worries me about this and the stats back that up. What I see from JJM's tape makes me feel like there's a good chance he could be good at this paramount trait in the NFL. Nevertheless, I admit there is no way to know this at all for JJM and Maye or any other prospects.
I agree with BW's overall point. Just because JJM shows solid decision-making in college, don't be so sure he can do the same in the NFL. Why? Because he may not be able to execute on those decisions at a high enough level. That's why traits are so important. With Williams and Maye you know they have the traits. The question for them do they have the head for the game and consistency. Williams is a lot closer to a finished product than Maye is. With Daniels, he has a lot of good traits but they're better on the running side than the passing side. But his record of production shows he is just about ready to contribute. McCarthy is shaky on the traits and the production. There is a lot unknown about him.
I definitely have him behind Maye and probably Penix.
As I just said in the post. It's nearly impossible to predict how a QB prospects mind will work at the NFL level. If this was somehow predictable like a science, you wouldn't see all the misses. And what I'm referring to isn't just decision making. I'm referring to something much more complex than that in how a QBs mind responds to the pressure both mental and physical of having 2.5 seconds or less to make a proper move with 300+ lb beast of human beings bearing down on you. I have a feeling based on the tape and stats that JJM might do well (once again there's no way to know). Conversely, I have serious concerns about Maye in this area based on the tape and stats. I noticed this first on tape with both JJM and Maye, then I saw the stats later.
At the end of the day this might be just a 2 QB draft - CW and JD. I think they both have a chance to be franchise difference-makers pretty soon. The rest of these guys are a bigger crapshoot.
All of them could fail to be elite potentially. I'd say 2-3 of the top 6 will get 2nd contracts with their teams.
No Thanks
I feel both about Maye. I have faith in Schdabs if they bet their entire careers on it then I bet I'm wrong and him getting flustered in the pocket isn't just how his mind is. It could be related to coaching, scheme, mechanics, many things. I don't know if its the dj vibe of being flustered into w deer in the headlights or not. The thought that it might be just concerns me that's all. I still see the immense upside and they would know better than me in their evaluations obviously. And once again, the getting flustered under pressure thing would be from many factors other than just a mental insufficiency.
Kid is legit. And those UNC teams were not good. At all. He was the only reason they have been relevant the last 2 seasons.
Kid is legit. And those UNC teams were not good. At all. He was the only reason they have been relevant the last 2 seasons.
Obviously he's the 2nd coming of Andrew Luck.
This is the exact same stuff we heard last year about Will Levis - big with a big arm that can make all the throws but suspect on the processing
These are guys you don’t trade up for. I am not giving up future assets for Maye, JJM or Daniels
He's openly telling you he did not watch every game, and made an opinion based on watching some of it, and depending on which games you watch would sway your opinion. I would fashion to believe the people who are currently employed to evaluate Maye have watched all of his tape, not some, and are more apt to form a solid opinion on his ability.