Some late Pats stuff I am hearing about their first pick

With AZ for pick 4.

of a high stakes poker game. Who will blink first.

.

I still don't want to get my hopes up. But this does seem real. Or is it? Ugh, about 22 hours more...

Boston radio guys ranting about JJM being the only QB to get a personal meeting with BK.
youtube - ( New Window )

NE is the guy that smiles when he looks at his cards in poker.

In comment 16485085 BleedBlue46 said:

Quote:

With AZ for pick 4.

Yeppers.

but scared to look dumb, doesn’t make any sense to me.

If we can get to 4 and then make a deal with Pats (Ojulari and a pick in 2025) to move up one spot.

There are ways to make this happen. Regardless, Vikings aren't getting into top 4 without including Jefferson and that isn't happening..

LFG

They have to include the Cardinals and get to 4, or they risk losing JJM to the Vikings.

First and foremost, thanks for sharing the info, Rich.

New England is pigeon-holed here. If they took JJMC at 3 overall, I don't think many would have a major issue with it. If he was atop Maye as you mentioned, than it is a "it is what it is" Irish scenario. They don't have to justify it, and if they are merely worried about public perception, I'm sure that will disappear.

If the Giants have a deal in place with Arizona at 4, this bodes well. Of course, we don't know if Minnesota won't simply offer more than what the Giants are should Maye drop to 4...who knows.

If Schoen knows that the Patriots prefer JJMC, and understands that they won't take Maye out of spite it also begs an interesting quandry.... another Rivers/Manning scenario.

Patriots draft Maye at three.
Giants draft JJMC at four.

Do they trade at that point? Hm. The wheels are spinning here, to be sure.

In comment 16485098 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

but scared to look dumb, doesn’t make any sense to me.

Agree.

This is looking more and more like

Williams 1 Chicago
Daniels 2 Wash
Maye 3 NE
McCarthy 4 or 6 NYG
Penix 11 Minnesota
Nix 12 Denver

In comment 16485091 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

.

Yeah, this is what they are saying now. two weeks ago Kraft wanted Maye and that has changed...but Pats and probably Kraft's ego does not want to take JJM at 3 spot because of bad optics of a reach. I think Schoen should call this bluff.

Schoen should sit tight at 6 and if Arizona is dumb enough to trade out of getting harrison let them..Giants will get Nabers.

The Pats could really screw up the draft if they take harrison at 3. but I think that would benefit the giants as Vikings would try to trade with giants, cardinals or giants to get JJM

One of Maye or JJ will be a Giant tomorrow night.

In comment 16485094 shyster said:

Quote:

Boston radio guys ranting about JJM being the only QB to get a personal meeting with BK. youtube - ( New Window )

Burger King?

they should not be in such a role...

I could really see the following happening:

Schoen calls Pats bluff, Pats take McCarthy

Giants trade a 2024 4th and 2023 3rd to Cardinals, Giants select Maye

Giants trade their 47th for Aiyuk

Giants take the highest rated corner or safety in the 3rd round

BBI rejoices

In comment 16485116 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

I could really see the following happening: Schoen calls Pats bluff, Pats take McCarthy Giants trade a 2024 4th and 2023 3rd to Cardinals, Giants select Maye Giants trade their 47th for Aiyuk Giants take the highest rated corner or safety in the 3rd round Meant to say 2025 3rd sorry BBI rejoices

Meant to say 2025 3rd sorry

In comment 16485116 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

I could really see the following happening: Schoen calls Pats bluff, Pats take McCarthy Giants trade a 2024 4th and 2023 3rd to Cardinals, Giants select Maye Giants trade their 47th for Aiyuk Giants take the highest rated corner or safety in the 3rd round BBI rejoices

I think it would take pick 6, 70 or maybe 107 and 2025 2nd. Alas, I could see this happening too.

In comment 16485096 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

NE is the guy that smiles when he looks at his cards in poker.

Agreed

In comment 16485115 Chef said:

Quote:

they should not be in such a role...

The large Kings ransom they are asking from the giants to move up three spots is really a smokescreen to mask their need to move down and get JJM at a correct spot which would be 6. This was mentioned on boston radio..it sounded bery logical.

for the information!

Perhaps Schoen now feels confident NE would go JJM at 3 and he's fully prepared to call their bluff with the deal in place to move to 4. If that's how it goes down, much applause to Schoen.

Pat’s wanting 6 and 2025 1st to slide back from 3 (along with the fear of JJM get snatched before 6, leading to trade up contingency plans to move back up)

VS

Pats just take JJM and Schoen dealing 6 and our 2024 2nd to Cards

In comment 16485133 Saos1n said:

Quote:

Pat’s wanting 6 and 2025 1st to slide back from 3 (along with the fear of JJM get snatched before 6, leading to trade up contingency plans to move back up) VS Pats just take JJM and Schoen dealing 6 and our 2024 2nd to Cards

I think the Pats want 47 in addition to the 2025 first if I had to guess.

We don't like the guy ppl think should be the pick at 3, we think this other guy is much better, but we don't want to look dumb taking him at 3.

Huh? If he turns into an elite franchise QB you look like geniuses for your conviction.

It's not who laughs first, it's who laughs last.

Anyway...I think all of that is rubbish...they just want to take the guy they want AND get extra capital for free. Just being a little greedy. We all would get more picks if we could and still take the player we want, can't hate on it.

In comment 16485135 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16485133 Saos1n said: Quote: Pat’s wanting 6 and 2025 1st to slide back from 3 (along with the fear of JJM get snatched before 6, leading to trade up contingency plans to move back up) VS Pats just take JJM and Schoen dealing 6 and our 2024 2nd to Cards I think the Pats want 47 in addition to the 2025 first if I had to guess.

I don’t think Schoen would pay that price. He may throw in the 3rd this year, along with next years 1, but not the 2nd. That’s being held close to the vest for Aiyuk

I just hope the Giants don't do anything stupid and overpay for any of those QB's. I'm afraid they will give up valuable draft picks for one. They need someone who can replace Saquon Barkley. The offense needs a stud player that can come in and make a difference.

In comment 16485146 prdave73 said:

Quote:

I just hope the Giants don't do anything stupid and overpay for any of those QB's. I'm afraid they will give up valuable draft picks for one. They need someone who can replace Saquon Barkley. The offense needs a stud player that can come in and make a difference.

Love the player, but Saquon didn’t change the franchise. Plenty of teams have shows RB are replaceable and you can challenge for a SB without them. The most important position is under center and if the FO has a conviction about someone, make the move. What future are we ruining if they’re wrong? More of the same from 2011 on?

In comment 16485146 prdave73 said:

Quote:

I just hope the Giants don't do anything stupid and overpay for any of those QB's. I'm afraid they will give up valuable draft picks for one. They need someone who can replace Saquon Barkley. The offense needs a stud player that can come in and make a difference.

Dave - as a different perspective/retort-

Adding additional playmakers means little when/if we still have Jones under center. A talented RB can only take us so far. Without a competent QB, it’s an uphill battle every game. RBs can be drafted in the middle rounds and be extremely productive. Need to spend draft picks to get the best talent. Good QBs don’t grow on trees, as it were.

In comment 16485137 allstarjim said:

Quote:

We don't like the guy ppl think should be the pick at 3, we think this other guy is much better, but we don't want to look dumb taking him at 3. Huh? If he turns into an elite franchise QB you look like geniuses for your conviction. It's not who laughs first, it's who laughs last. Anyway...I think all of that is rubbish...they just want to take the guy they want AND get extra capital for free. Just being a little greedy. We all would get more picks if we could and still take the player we want, can't hate on it.

That's my take too. I still don't think the Giants draft a QB with their first pick. I think everything were hearing is BS and the Giants go WR at 1. If their WR isn't their they try to trade back. If I'm wrong who cares, it's just a guess

They’re not going to take McCarthy if they have to take him at 3, but they’ll take him three picks later? Makes no sense.

In comment 16485153 jeff57 said:

Quote:

They’re not going to take McCarthy if they have to take him at 3, but they’ll take him three picks later? Makes no sense.

Seems like Schoen might be feeling the same and preparing to call their bluff.

It seems pretty moronic to not take the QB you love because of "optics." It's too stupid to believe. Yet to even mention it makes it so bizarre that has you do a double-take that the stupidity might be true.

is that they see an opportunity to have their cake and eat it too. I don't buy they are worried about drafting JJ too soon. If they think JJ is their guy, then they can take him at 3. But they are in a position they can drop back a few slots and pickup additional draft capital while still getting their guy.

In comment 16485137 allstarjim said:

Quote:

We don't like the guy ppl think should be the pick at 3, we think this other guy is much better, but we don't want to look dumb taking him at 3. Huh? If he turns into an elite franchise QB you look like geniuses for your conviction. It's not who laughs first, it's who laughs last. Anyway...I think all of that is rubbish...they just want to take the guy they want AND get extra capital for free. Just being a little greedy. We all would get more picks if we could and still take the player we want, can't hate on it.

This

In comment 16485204 Beer Man said:

Quote:

is that they see an opportunity to have their cake and eat it too. I don't buy they are worried about drafting JJ too soon. If they think JJ is their guy, then they can take him at 3. But they are in a position they can drop back a few slots and pickup additional draft capital while still getting their guy.

This is more logical than public perception of JJ at 3

is giving up too much to move up a few slots. One of the things that plagues bad teams that are QB hungry is that they give up too much to obtain a promising young QB, ultimately leaving themselves short of the resource needed to improve the supporting cast around them. It seems that good teams that move up for a QB have a lower bust rate because (IMHO) they are able to put the young QB in a better position to succeed, while the team is good enough position to not be overly impacted by the resources sacrificed.

The Giants are not a good football team

If the Pats like J.J. McCarthy at 6, then they shouldn't risk losing him by trading away their pick at 3.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

In comment 16485217 M.S. said:

Quote:

If the Pats like J.J. McCarthy at 6, then they shouldn't risk losing him by trading away their pick at 3. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Agree. You go by your own board not the public's.

Giants want Maye. Patriots want JJM and feel they can get extra picks by sliding down in a trade and get picks and JJM.they feel why pick him at 3if we can get him and picks. Giants trying to cheapen the price of move to three by making a deal with Arizona for 4th pick and take their 1B selection JJM. That now puts Wolfes nuts in a vice. You squeeze us we squeeze you.

In comment 16485094 shyster said:

Quote:

Boston radio guys ranting about JJM being the only QB to get a personal meeting with BK. youtube - ( New Window )

I talk to Mazz regularly. He told me McCarthy last week. But I didn't press him if it was asshat info or just a guess.

In comment 16485231 markky said:

Quote:

In comment 16485094 shyster said: Quote: Boston radio guys ranting about JJM being the only QB to get a personal meeting with BK. youtube - ( New Window ) I talk to Mazz regularly. He told me McCarthy last week. But I didn't press him if it was asshat info or just a guess.

clarification: I don't mean calling into his show, I mean socially, around town. So he was sharing his honest opinion, not his radio opinion.

In comment 16485230 Blue21 said:

Quote:

Giants want Maye. Patriots want JJM and feel they can get extra picks by sliding down in a trade and get picks and JJM.they feel why pick him at 3if we can get him and picks. Giants trying to cheapen the price of move to three by making a deal with Arizona for 4th pick and take their 1B selection JJM. That now puts Wolfes nuts in a vice. You squeeze us we squeeze you.

+1

In comment 16485230 Blue21 said:

Quote:

Giants want Maye. Patriots want JJM and feel they can get extra picks by sliding down in a trade and get picks and JJM.they feel why pick him at 3if we can get him and picks. Giants trying to cheapen the price of move to three by making a deal with Arizona for 4th pick and take their 1B selection JJM. That now puts Wolfes nuts in a vice. You squeeze us we squeeze you.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does this work in real time? Does it go like this?

(1) Pats are on the clock and tell Joe Schoen the price for #3

(2) Joe Schoen says the price is too high and tells the Pats he has a deal at 4, which he'll make if the Pats don't lower their price.

In comment 16485091 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

.

Hearing they prefer JJM as well

would the Patriots get cute?

If they love JJM, take him at 3. You don't risk losing your QB with all this nonsense IMO.

Ben is a Pats beat writer for the Globe....

Ben Volin
@BenVolin
From Detroit: 24 hours before the draft, Drake Maye didn’t sound nearly as excited about the Patriots as he did the Giants and Vikings.

What that could mean as the Patriots consider the No. 3 pick:

https://bostonglobe.com/2024/04/24/spo

That JJM fits the GB style system that NE is going to be putting in place better than Maye, but I like Maye slightly better as a prospect.

If you hit on a franchise guy sometimes they outlast coaching staffs, so I'm not a fan of drafting a guy at 3 because he fits your system, so I've felt both Maye/McCarthy are equally likely.

Now, with the Michigan connection and McCarthy's work ethic being "Bradyesq" per some sources, I could 100% see Kraft pushing for him based on that. Some have said on this board they won't take him based on slight Brady connections, but remember Gettleman and Mara reached for a QB because he kind of looked like Eli Manning's goofy kid...

Humans make these decisions, not robots.

The idea that a QB would be a great pick at 6 but a reach at 3 is silly. It implies an accuracy in both player evaluation and knowing what other teams are thinking that just isn't there.

In comment 16485303 Mike in Boston said:

Quote:

The idea that a QB would be a great pick at 6 but a reach at 3 is silly. It implies an accuracy in both player evaluation and knowing what other teams are thinking that just isn't there.

Yup. A lot of this stuff sounds like people breaking their brain trying too hard.

But let's fuck around and risk losing him over 3 draft slots.

Bullshit.

I'm glad Schoen's smelling it.

if he heard it at the Tick Tock diner lol

In comment 16485153 jeff57 said:

Quote:

They’re not going to take McCarthy if they have to take him at 3, but they’ll take him three picks later? Makes no sense.

Kraft has 4+ Superbowls and an ego to match. JJM was not even in the top ten in consideration when mocks were being formed and he will be grilled by boston media selecting 3rd qb that in reality is not a top 10 pick in talent. but they need a QB

In comment 16485199 giantstock said:

Quote:

It seems pretty moronic to not take the QB you love because of "optics." It's too stupid to believe. Yet to even mention it makes it so bizarre that has you do a double-take that the stupidity might be true.

Kraft has 4+ superbowls and an ego to match. He knows JJM is not top 10 talent but wants to kave his cake and eat it too by trading down..getiing more picks and get JJM at a correct slot.

If someone like Vikes make a move to 5 and then try and get to 3

*Giants likely to get 4 on lockdown with Cards

*If Pats want McCarthy they need to deal with G-men

.

In comment 16485324 Fast Eddie said:

Quote:

if he heard it at the Tick Tock diner lol

I was at Tick tock last week for breakfeast!!!

In comment 16485097 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

In comment 16485085 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: With AZ for pick 4. Why would a team with 11 draft picks, 2 first, a second and 3 third round picks move back when a WR like Harrison is on the board? They have a ton of draft capitol and not enough cap space for more picks, or do you want to give up 2025 draft picks for the 4th best QB? Yeppers.