I reached out through my friend (who is tight with my source) to see what happened. Was hoping he would have heard something. Giants most definitely tried to trade up. However Mara often places limits on and how far they will go in major trades like this. When have the New York Giants ever been really aggressive moving up in round 1 besides Eli? It's extremely rare. Ownership though they have become more in tune with the times with some things value draft picks quite a bit especially when in their minds right or wrong the cost is just too high to move up (as often is in round 1). They pay their scouts and their scouting program to do a job and even feel it 'quite unfair' to give up a significant portion of their draft. They like to do their 'moving and shaking' in round 2 when cost is much lower. Like it or hate it, it's an engrained mentality.
Also ownership, and some may hate to hear this, felt they had too good of an option in DJ so Drake (who they did feel was a special talent) made sense 'only at the right price'.
The price was high but the impression is if ownership didn't nix it, Schoen would have paid it. These guys are part of the group that pulled off the double trade up for Allen. Drake in a sense was Daboll's Josh Allen 2.0 and he wasn't part of the regime that drafted Daniel. According to the source, they were not that far apart on price too but NE was pushing for 'more' and ultimately it got nixed.
For more evidence, Vacchiano who rarely misses (hit on Banks last year, DJ at 6 not 17 few years back and now Nabers) also hinted at how 'some in the organization' (i.e likely referecing Mara) ultimately weren't willing to pay the price. Ralph is Mara's main mouthpiece and therefore gets the best info of the bunch.
All the hoopla, but now reality sets in I guess. They need DJ to be healthy and be the guy parts of rookie year and had flashes under Daboll when in the few instances a Bobby Johnson disaster of an OL could block.
They spent on 5 OL this offseason. They brought in a guy Bricillo who had top 12 Offensive Line performances with 2 different teams with just average talent in the OL group. This guy might just be our best Ol ball coach since the likes of Pat Flaherty.
The pessimist might say this is definition of insanity and QB was definitely a need and once again ownership didn't step up to the plate, recognize their mistakes and move on. Not many people could blame them.
The hopeful optimist might look at it and say the few games in the last 5 years when DJ had decent blocking in front of him he has generally looked the part and sometimes much more than that.
Also when young QBs like Allen, Tua, Hurts and the like finally got their shiny toy WR1 and had a good offensive mind behind it the performances jumped dramatically the following year.
Your theory didn’t work out. It happens.
I mean, what was "close"? #6, #47, 2025 #1 and #3, plus more(2026 #1)? I didn't see the Vikings jumping to #3 and they were willing to give up more. So the Pats were not moving.
In fact, I do not believe the Patriots ever intended to make a deal that was in the realm of fair/reasonable. Think of the lies they put out - they didn't want Maye, Daniels or McCarthy were their guy.
Makes a thread stating it was a one time event where he got some info. Now keeps getting info? I completely agree with you.
I'll take it from another angle. Schoen has tightened the circle of info and clearly used smoke screens.
Trading two firsts and a second to move up three spots is a ridiculous trade. Anyone advocating for it has zero understanding of prospect value. Drake Maye could just as easily be Mitch Trubisky as he could be Justin Herbert. And don't get me started on JJM - that was one of the the great hoaxes in NFL history and Viking fans today are beside themselves. Listening to Greg Gianotti this morning was actually quite therapeutic - very thankful they were the greater fools bidding against themselves this year for a middling talent.
In his next job, maybe Schoen will think twice about the implications of signing an NFL backup quarterback to the worst contract in NFL history and then clinging to players with value at the trade deadline you know you won't be signing after the year. Those were the galactic mistakes made by Schoen, not last night.
Schoen will not get fired for another bad season. He did what his boss wanted so he is safe. If this season does not go well, Daboll will likely be the one shown the door for failing to bring out Jones’ hidden talent. We can then find a different offensive genius who has a plan to win with Jones.
Meh.
Remember, JJ face of franchise, Mara must love him BS?
If Schoen and Dabs hated the QB room that much, they would have taken JJ. And Mara would have signed off according to BBI.
I am sure we will never know but I would be curious to see where they had JJM rated. Nabers is a legit stud and will definitely make us better but WR’s don’t win super Bowls like QB’s do.
All we can do is hope they made the right choice and we get lucky on a QB in the next year or two
Then biggest demand was that ownership wanted a QB. The Giants and I assume MN made their offers (was told there were multiple offers).
NE wanted A QB. They were right to ask for the world to give up the spot.
At the end of the day, Maye was the best player on their board or at least the best QB by a wide margin.
The Giants offered their 2025 #1 and the 2025 #3. The others were more substantial but with a lower draft position.
The Krafts wanted the QB...end of story.
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Once the Pats draft board got set up and JJM didn't crack the top ten. The Krafts backed off and let their football people work the phones.
Then biggest demand was that ownership wanted a QB. The Giants and I assume MN made their offers (was told there were multiple offers).
NE wanted A QB. They were right to ask for the world to give up the spot.
At the end of the day, Maye was the best player on their board or at least the best QB by a wide margin.
The Giants offered their 2025 #1 and the 2025 #3. The others were more substantial but with a lower draft position.
The Krafts wanted the QB...end of story.
Oops
NE wanted a QB and wanted a huge haul to move off the pick which would give them the capital to make a move next year. It is what it is.
Schoen will not get fired for another bad season. He did what his boss wanted so he is safe. If this season does not go well, Daboll will likely be the one shown the door for failing to bring out Jones’ hidden talent. We can then find a different offensive genius who has a plan to win with Jones.
So when you offer 6, 70 and your 2025 1 & 3
That sure doesn’t sound like a GM whose plan is to build around the current QB does jt?
Why force a QB selection of you don’t have a conviction on the other QB’s?
Isn’t this how we got DJ in the first place?
I'm also tired of the Mara angle. It's clear Schoen & Daboll like Jones.
+1. Enough. Schoen passed on 3 QBs at six that other teams rated as upper 1st prospects. They’ve made their bed with Jones.
even if they'd liked JJM better, or had them close to even, getting cute and trading down would have been pretty stupid. Take the best QB and dont risk it.
the fact that MIN and NYG both wanted to move up for Maye, but not for JJM (notice MIN had no fear of letting JJM fall past other teams willing to trade and NYG) tells me that this was all a lot of white noise. Drake was always going #3 to NE.
If you want to blame the obvious right move from another team on John Mara that's a personal decision. also moronic, but personal.
I'm concerned that he's got permanent damage (physical and mental) from the shit-sandwich he's been served every year, but time to find out.
One thing's for sure: even if they had drafted Maye, they would've had tons of work building up the offense and getting him playmakers or he would've been screwed. And they would've had almost no resources to do it.
Now - if DJ flops with better playing conditions - they'll have an elite #1 for the new QB, and all their picks. I'm good with it.
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The more asshats make posts giving these long drawn out explanations, the less I believe them.
I'm also tired of the Mara angle. It's clear Schoen & Daboll like Jones.
+1. Enough. Schoen passed on 3 QBs at six that other teams rated as upper 1st prospects. They’ve made their bed with Jones.
And that doesn’t mean the other teams were tight and we were wrong does it?
Should we force a pick that we don’t have conviction on?
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In comment 16490152 Sean said:
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The more asshats make posts giving these long drawn out explanations, the less I believe them.
I'm also tired of the Mara angle. It's clear Schoen & Daboll like Jones.
+1. Enough. Schoen passed on 3 QBs at six that other teams rated as upper 1st prospects. They’ve made their bed with Jones.
And that doesn’t mean the other teams were tight and we were wrong does it?
Should we force a pick that we don’t have conviction on?
Right or wrong has got nothing to do with it imv. My point is you can’t pin this on Mara. There were clearly QBs available that other teams valued. Schoen passed, so he - not Mara - should ultimately be judged if things go south with Jones.
They both seemed quite happy with the pick in the press conference. Didn't seem like a group whos plans got shot down, or like the settled.
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In comment 16490331 Lambuth_Special said:
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In comment 16490152 Sean said:
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The more asshats make posts giving these long drawn out explanations, the less I believe them.
I'm also tired of the Mara angle. It's clear Schoen & Daboll like Jones.
+1. Enough. Schoen passed on 3 QBs at six that other teams rated as upper 1st prospects. They’ve made their bed with Jones.
And that doesn’t mean the other teams were tight and we were wrong does it?
Should we force a pick that we don’t have conviction on?
Right or wrong has got nothing to do with it imv. My point is you can’t pin this on Mara. There were clearly QBs available that other teams valued. Schoen passed, so he - not Mara - should ultimately be judged if things go south with Jones.
I never said this had anything to do with Mara
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The only thing I do know is that Schoen has cast his lot with Daniel Jones yet again. Jones is Schoen’s QB, not Gettleman’s. It seems the plan all along was to have Daboll fix Jones while building a team around Jones.
Schoen will not get fired for another bad season. He did what his boss wanted so he is safe. If this season does not go well, Daboll will likely be the one shown the door for failing to bring out Jones’ hidden talent. We can then find a different offensive genius who has a plan to win with Jones.
So when you offer 6, 70 and your 2025 1 & 3
That sure doesn’t sound like a GM whose plan is to build around the current QB does jt?
Why force a QB selection of you don’t have a conviction on the other QB’s?
Isn’t this how we got DJ in the first place?
You have no idea what they were offered. Your guesses are not evidence of anything.
And yeah the mindset is you don't force a QB pick. It's fair to assume that will be the plan in 2025, right?
We may still be closer to the start of Daniel Jones' career with the Giants than the end.
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In comment 16490239 Mike from Ohio said:
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The only thing I do know is that Schoen has cast his lot with Daniel Jones yet again. Jones is Schoen’s QB, not Gettleman’s. It seems the plan all along was to have Daboll fix Jones while building a team around Jones.
Schoen will not get fired for another bad season. He did what his boss wanted so he is safe. If this season does not go well, Daboll will likely be the one shown the door for failing to bring out Jones’ hidden talent. We can then find a different offensive genius who has a plan to win with Jones.
So when you offer 6, 70 and your 2025 1 & 3
That sure doesn’t sound like a GM whose plan is to build around the current QB does jt?
Why force a QB selection of you don’t have a conviction on the other QB’s?
Isn’t this how we got DJ in the first place?
You have no idea what they were offered. Your guesses are not evidence of anything.
And yeah the mindset is you don't force a QB pick. It's fair to assume that will be the plan in 2025, right?
We may still be closer to the start of Daniel Jones' career with the Giants than the end.
I am going by Big Blue Banter and what Big Rick said
So let’s assume they are both correct
Do you make that kind of offer if DJ is your guy?
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Once the Pats draft board got set up and JJM didn't crack the top ten. The Krafts backed off and let their football people work the phones.
Then biggest demand was that ownership wanted a QB. The Giants and I assume MN made their offers (was told there were multiple offers).
At the end of the day, Maye was the best player on their board or at least the best QB by a wide margin.
The Giants offered their 2025 #1 and the 2025 #3. The others were more substantial but with a lower draft position.
The Krafts wanted the QB...end of story.
I will say this. If they did offer next years 1 and 3 that’s a very fair offer
So many delusional and biased Giant's fans believe that any offer that was made, was fair. It wasn't.
There is only one fair offer. It is where both teams agree it is fair, and the trade is actually made.
I don't think Maye is worth #6, #47, and our #1 and #3 next year, so I am glad this deal didn't happen.
I don't think Maye is worth #6, #47, and our #1 and #3 next year, so I am glad this deal didn't happen.
Even #70 instead of #47 is still too much IMO.
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In comment 16490239 Mike from Ohio said:
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The only thing I do know is that Schoen has cast his lot with Daniel Jones yet again. Jones is Schoen’s QB, not Gettleman’s. It seems the plan all along was to have Daboll fix Jones while building a team around Jones.
Schoen will not get fired for another bad season. He did what his boss wanted so he is safe. If this season does not go well, Daboll will likely be the one shown the door for failing to bring out Jones’ hidden talent. We can then find a different offensive genius who has a plan to win with Jones.
So when you offer 6, 70 and your 2025 1 & 3
That sure doesn’t sound like a GM whose plan is to build around the current QB does jt?
Why force a QB selection of you don’t have a conviction on the other QB’s?
Isn’t this how we got DJ in the first place?
You have no idea what they were offered. Your guesses are not evidence of anything.
And yeah the mindset is you don't force a QB pick. It's fair to assume that will be the plan in 2025, right?
We may still be closer to the start of Daniel Jones' career with the Giants than the end.
And I’ll add this
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
I won’t be arguing every point in my mentions this morning. I promise.
Day 2 resolution.
I’ll just say this: if the Patriots wanted to trade the pick, the Giants would’ve traded for the pick and selected Drake Maye.
A deal didn’t get done, but I don’t believe it was because the Giants weren’t aggressive enough. You like a player, you go for it, and they did.
Now you put the pressure on yourselves to come up with the next plan. Keep building
I actually hope some of the spammers who pollute this board will live up to their word and stop watching and hopefully posting so much.
Then biggest demand was that ownership wanted a QB. The Giants and I assume MN made their offers (was told there were multiple offers).
At the end of the day, Maye was the best player on their board or at least the best QB by a wide margin.
The Giants offered their 2025 #1 and the 2025 #3. The others were more substantial but with a lower draft position.
Kraft wanted the QB...end of story.
When the Pats made their pick within their first 5 minutes on the clock, it felt like this is what was happening. They had solidified their love for Drake Maye during their last Front Office meeting -- the Owner wanted the QB.
The Pats made two last minute phone calls just before they were on the clock and tried to squeeze both the Giants and the Vikes into giving up more picks.
Schoen's offer seemed like a pretty good haul for moving up 3 spots. Trying to gut the Giant's 2025 Draft at the last minute was just too much.
Asshats way off this year. It happens
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In comment 16490130 dd in Mass said:
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Once the Pats draft board got set up and JJM didn't crack the top ten. The Krafts backed off and let their football people work the phones.
Then biggest demand was that ownership wanted a QB. The Giants and I assume MN made their offers (was told there were multiple offers).
At the end of the day, Maye was the best player on their board or at least the best QB by a wide margin.
The Giants offered their 2025 #1 and the 2025 #3. The others were more substantial but with a lower draft position.
The Krafts wanted the QB...end of story.
I will say this. If they did offer next years 1 and 3 that’s a very fair offer
So many delusional and biased Giant's fans believe that any offer that was made, was fair. It wasn't.
There is only one fair offer. It is where both teams agree it is fair, and the trade is actually made.
No offense, but I don't think that's a typical definition of a fair offer, so calling other people delusional based on it seems a bit... unfair.
There are plenty of negotiations where one side acknowledges the other has given a fair offer but still prefers not to take it. It's usually when they're quiet happy to sit tight and need to be blown away by an offer to move, which jibes with what was said about the Patriots' position.
Then biggest demand was that ownership wanted a QB. The Giants and I assume MN made their offers (was told there were multiple offers).
At the end of the day, Maye was the best player on their board or at least the best QB by a wide margin.
The Giants offered their 2025 #1 and the 2025 #3. The others were more substantial but with a lower draft position.
The Krafts wanted the QB...end of story.
This sounds right. Thanks dd. If Schdabs felt true conviction about Maye, they would have caved and done 47 instead of 2025 3rd. I think they got lucky to be honest. Maye has bust written all over him to me. Although I would have taken a shot on JJM, Dabs must have felt his throwing motion, touch and accuracy on the money throws was too much to overcome so I respect his expertise on that matter. It will be interesting to see how all these guys do over the years. Only 2-3 or the 6 will become legit starters. 1-2 might be elite. I like our chances much better with Nabers when dust has settled. Jaxon Dart in 2025!
Exactly. And even if the poster is being upfront and honest, why would we put any credibility in the "source" at this point? For the record, this was his previous "inside information":
Though front office opinions on Maye vary quite a bit... Enough teams feel Maye is either a top 2 or top 3 QB in this draft and would be QB1 in most others.
Pats boxed out on the guys they have the highest grade on. Lukewarm on Maye do like McCarthy quite a bit . I asked about all the recent rumors saying they favor Maye and he replied if they truly loved Maye you wouldn't hear all this open for business proclamations from the organization period. Are Chicago and Washington doing this?
Went on to say its very true that both Minny and Giants have been negotiating with Pats most heavily and target is Maye. All other media stuff just white noise. Both teams have Maye as significantly higher than any other QB not named Daniels or Williams.
Giants have the high hand though once it became clear that they can deliver what Pats want most and that would also entail getting the Cards involved. Cards want the blue chip WR and Pats want McCarthy most. Pats get some jingle and McCarthy is how he put it. Also said Pats didn't throw their hat in the ring for a near 9 digit deal with Ridley to pair him with Brisset.
I think you need a break. Whether it is enforced by me or not is up to you.
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for your information throughout this process. It is much appreciated. No one should blame you or any of the other "asshats" for being "wrong." Deals are very fluid, and fall apart at the last minute all the time. They all have a lot of moving parts.
I don't think Maye is worth #6, #47, and our #1 and #3 next year, so I am glad this deal didn't happen.
Even #70 instead of #47 is still too much IMO.
Agreed, if Maye was a better prospect NE wouldn't have even considered offers. He wasn't worth it and if this is true then honestly for once Mara made a good football decision.
Also, if Schdabs felt true conviction 100% they would have traded pick 47 instead of the 2025 3rd. We will likely be picking in the 5-10 range next year with 5-8 wins.
This is exactly what went down 😁
I mean, what was "close"? #6, #47, 2025 #1 and #3, plus more(2026 #1)? I didn't see the Vikings jumping to #3 and they were willing to give up more. So the Pats were not moving.
In fact, I do not believe the Patriots ever intended to make a deal that was in the realm of fair/reasonable. Think of the lies they put out - they didn't want Maye, Daniels or McCarthy were their guy.
So if it happens to be true, it is still unnecessary? What an odd take, you just don’t want to hear the truth.
First of all, EVERY NFL owner has input in the draft, especially for big moves like the one Schoen was trying to negotiate. Time will tell who was on the right side of this decision, but it was well within John Mara’s rights, hell his obligation, to weigh in on a franchise-altering decision like this.
Then you have the added complexity of owners nixing potential trades. As I said in my earlier post, I don’t blame Mara for taking a stand on a deal as large as the one talked about for Maye, I expect him to do that. Whether his was the right decision remains to be seen.
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Mr. Mara for putting a stop on giving up a top 10 pick next year.
THIS!!!!
I said it all along, DJ will be the starter come September if he's healthy. And I believe he will be. Now hopefully that OL will start gelling to give him a chance. Fatboy better run a better camp and be better prepared this year or sayonara!
Hopefully we can improve on the record from 2022 and perhaps win 10 this year, if not a top 10 pick will be ours again.
Now let's go get a # 2 CB today and settle that festering issue.
Lmao. Win 10. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
They’ll be lucky to win half that.
Then you have the added complexity of owners nixing potential trades. As I said in my earlier post, I don’t blame Mara for taking a stand on a deal as large as the one talked about for Maye, I expect him to do that. Whether his was the right decision remains to be seen.
Sure, some things are fluid. But the whole original post of the OP hinged on the piece of info that the Patriots were "lukewarm on Maye" and "wanted McCarthy the most." That doesn't seem like a fluid aspect and turned out to be completely off.
Some thought the Pats wanted JJM and there was some evidence to support this. A trade with the Giants was possible if they wanted different players.
It turns out the Pats wanted Maye and therefore no reasonable trade offer would be accepted.
The info we heard on the Giants was mostly correct:
Maye was their guy - Yes
They would try to trade up - Yes
They also liked JJM - No
They preferred Nabers over Odunze - Yes
They knew we werent interested in JJM and the pats were.
vikings outclassed everyone.
they knew they could get to 5 if Pats didnt take a QB at 3 and went below 5.
I think it was unfortunate but appropriate not to offer more than what was reported in a trade, and even that, assuming it is accurate, makes me cringe a little. That trade would have been for a *prospect*, not a guarantee.
And I think it was appropriate not to overdraft one of the QB's taken after the Giants pick. What's left? Nabers. There isn't any way to complain about that situation.
Did Mara set the limit? Schoen? Did Cowden or Hickey have the persuasive argument? Was it group consensus? Who cares, it was the right call.
I want the next Eli (or better!) as much as anyone, but I'm happy they didn't take an irresponsible risk.
And maybe I’m being naive, but I find it impossible to believe that anyone (including the owner) is willing to stick their neck out for Daniel Jones at this point. I like Daniel Jones, but that’s just ridiculous. I’m still skeptical that he’ll be the starting quarterback in week one unless he’s head and shoulders better than Drew Lock.
The Giants made a trade offer. It wasn't enough. It seems that the Vikings made a trade offer, which also wasn't enough. Let's suppose MN offered more than the Giants. The Giants would have had to offer at least more than that, and maybe that too wouldn't have been enough. What if MN's offer was the same or less than the Giants, then "stepped up to the plate" would have meant more than what they offered. Would that have been two firsts + a second plus even more? Like another 2nd or a 3rd? Maybe a player too? That's nuts for a *prospect*. I wouldn't say they didn't step up to the plate.
We cheered gaining a sensible GM with restraint. A hard negotiator who sets a limit based on positional value, emotionless player evaluation, risk management, and won't go past it. Well that's just what we saw on Thursday.