Daniel Jones - You Have to Knock Out the Champ

Or was it Mara axing the potential deal because it was too expensive?

have a worse QB situation than the Giants do at this point. That’s my issue. Beyond the raiders, are there any QB rooms the Giants wouldn’t trade with? Obviously some teams have young players at the position that may take time, but at least there is potential there. Hard to imagine any team with such a bad QB situation being competitive down the stretch.

that possibly all 3 are gone next year. Jones would have killed his 3rd head coach.

I think they overvalue Jones for what he is but also abuse themselves into notion they have to “help” him. There’s kind of some internal conflict I see with how they talk and have handled Jones in this new regime. Even Judge did this.

I think they like him and want success but don’t love or trust him.

Dabolls job is tied to how Jones performs. Everyone will serve at the pleasure of John and Daniel.

If management can get Jones to look like the 20th best QB in the league and not completely embarass himself, then their mission is accomplished and they will be rewarded.

In comment 16490432 Bold Ruler said:

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Or was it Mara axing the potential deal because it was too expensive?

I mean, you're just not giving Schoen any credit, that's just too much speculation. Just because your disappointed they couldn't trade up to get Maye, doesn't mean there's a bad guy here.

a perspective

😂

Daniel Jones has never won a championship in anything at any level

I think there 2/3 of the league would consider drafting a blue chip QB if the price was right.

Exploring a trade for Maye is not a vote of no confidence in Jones.

Drafting JJM, Penix, or Nix would have been.

In comment 16490432 Bold Ruler said:

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Or was it Mara axing the potential deal because it was too expensive?

Exactly…the OP makes no sense

If they are going all in…then why did they try to move up?

The league thought more than 3 QBs were pretty good because 6 were taken in the first 12 picks.

In comment 16490463 Mbavaro said:

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Or was it Mara axing the potential deal because it was too expensive? Exactly…the OP makes no sense If they are going all in…then why did they try to move up?

This is the same point I explained to you repeatedly last night.

If the Giants had a list of quarterback they liked in order, and it went:

Mayes
Jones
Penix
McCarthy
Nix

Do the Giants like Jones. Yes or no?

In comment 16490439 Sammo85 said:

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I think they overvalue Jones for what he is but also abuse themselves into notion they have to “help” him. There’s kind of some internal conflict I see with how they talk and have handled Jones in this new regime. Even Judge did this.

I always think back to Judge - after getting fired due in part to Jones unreliability in health and performance - immediately volunteering how much he loved Jones, as pretty telling in all of this. Danny is Rasputin in football pads.

In comment 16490468 Biteymax22 said:

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The league thought more than 3 QBs were pretty good because 6 were taken in the first 12 picks.

Say what now?

In comment 16490432 Bold Ruler said:

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Or was it Mara axing the potential deal because it was too expensive?

^This. Stars and Stripes said that he thought Schoen would have paid the price NE was asking, but Mara nixed the deal when they asked for another first round pick. I think the final offer was either #6, #47, and our #1 and #3 next year, or #6, #70, and our #1 and #3 next year. That is way too much for me for Drake Maye so I'm glad the deal didn't happen, but regardless, the fact that the Giants offered so much proves IMO that Schoen and Daboll want to move on from Jones. They just weren't able to do so.

Does Nabers seem like a Mara approved personality?

Seems strange to me that Mara would veto a trade for Maye but be ok with picking Nabers.

Also you either trust Daboll or not, If Daboll liked one of the available QBs, they would have pick them. You cant just pick a QB to pick a QB, picking the wrong QB would be even a worse mistake.

he wasn’t drafted by this management; and Daboll will not hesitate to bench Jones if he thinks Drew Lock is a better option.

In comment 16490496 SteelGiant said:

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Does Nabers seem like a Mara approved personality? Seems strange to me that Mara would veto a trade for Maye but be ok with picking Nabers. Also you either trust Daboll or not, If Daboll liked one of the available QBs, they would have pick them. You cant just pick a QB to pick a QB, picking the wrong QB would be even a worse mistake.

I don’t trust Daboll.

stays healthy. If not, everyone deserves to be fired. Too bad we can’t fire Mara.

In comment 16490477 christian said:

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In comment 16490463 Mbavaro said: Quote: Or was it Mara axing the potential deal because it was too expensive? Exactly…the OP makes no sense If they are going all in…then why did they try to move up? This is the same point I explained to you repeatedly last night. If the Giants had a list of quarterback they liked in order, and it went: Mayes Jones Penix McCarthy Nix Do the Giants like Jones. Yes or no?

Again…not an endorsement of DJ as they are trying to move on without him

I’m just as disappointed as many others are as I want DJ gone as of yesterday, but if their evaluations of the other QB’s fell short….then the correct thing to do was to stay put and improve the roster which needs a lot of improvement

They just established they would rather go into battle with Jones, than develop one of the three prospects available at 6. He's their guy.

I think they've bet their careers on him.

with picks at 8, 10, and 12, and that the Giants passed on those QBs.

Apparently, the Giants felt that WR Nabers was better choice than those QBs selected in the top half of Round One. Also, that even if they wanted to replace Jones, this moment in time is not the best time to do it.

I think we can agree (most of us) that the Giants know a lot more about football than we do. However, they also know something that is even more important. They know that their knowledge is NOT enough to predict the future. They know there are risks that are outside of their control, or anyone else's control.

So the Giants try to minimize the risks when they can, and hope for good luck. It seems to me that they chose "the devil you know" over "the devil you don't." I can't blame them for that. But I sure as fuck don't know if they are right, and neither do you.

They obviously see a higher ceiling with Maye than they did with Jones.

But they also concluded that they would rather have Jones than McCarthy, Penix and Nix. Those are QBs other teams in the league drafted in the top half of the first round. It doesn't mean they are right, it just means their professionals believe there is talent there that the Giants didn't see.

So the Giants probably don't think Jones is elite. But it is clear they think he is good.

In comment 16490613 christian said:

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They just established they would rather go into battle with Jones, than develop one of the three prospects available at 6. He's their guy. I think they've bet their careers on him.

agreed. people like to look for reasons to explain their differences of opinion, but their feelings for jones have always been pretty clear. yeah they originally declined the 5yo but from that point forward he won them over as a middle 1/3 starter. it would seem they were only going to pick a qb they viewed clearly in the higher tier.

The Nabers pick says more about how Schoen felt about the remaining QB’s than it does about Jones. If he could have gotten Maye, he would have, and the “champ” would have been knocked out.

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christian : 8:37 am Or this case the starter on the 160M contract. I think that's the lesson from last night. The Giants think very highly of Daniel Jones, and the only way he was getting displaced is if a clearly better QB was available. The league at large felt 3 other QBs available were pretty damn good, and apparently the Giants either disagreed or that threshold wasn't enough to displace Jones. Make no mistake, last night was a pretty clear vote of confidence in Jones and I think it's no exaggeration that at least Daboll's job is now tied to how he performs.

So I guess we also know now that for sure "the Giants are done with Daniel Jones" talk from Eisen at the combine was pure smoke. Sure worked on me.

Given the way the Vikings celebrated when they snagged McCarthy, and the fact that Atlanta took Penix at 10(!) means the league at large felt there were at least 5 QB's available that were pretty damn good.

The fact that the Giants and the Giants alone feel that Jones is the answer makes the stomach queasy. When was the last time the Giants were right against the tide of the NFL?

As far as Daboll's job security, I draw the opposite conclusion. I think the Giants have told Daboll and Schoen that their jobs are safe if they stick it out with Jones. Jawn Mara told them the contract was his call in the end, and since that was the case, they get one more year with Jones and when he gets hurt again, they will choose our new QB in 2025, and get to develop him too. They are committed to not changing coaches again, even with Little Bill looming at McAffee's

Taking any of those QBs at 6 would have been a reach. Good thing DG isn't still here or you would have your way.

You have all these QB DESPERSATE teams and all we saw was MN wh had 2 first round picks and tried desperately to move to 3 only see JJ as worth trading one spot? That doesn't tell you anything? And Penix? We weren't going to draft an old beat up one trick pony. Yes, Atlanta liked him. But there is no way we were going to move on from an injury prone DJ to an injury prone Penix.

In comment 16490623 Mike from Ohio said:

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They obviously see a higher ceiling with Maye than they did with Jones. But they also concluded that they would rather have Jones than McCarthy, Penix and Nix. Those are QBs other teams in the league drafted in the top half of the first round. It doesn't mean they are right, it just means their professionals believe there is talent there that the Giants didn't see. So the Giants probably don't think Jones is elite. But it is clear they think he is good.

the most honest opinion you will get from a pro team is the contracts they give out.

last i checked daniel jones is QB13 or QB14. goff and tua will knock him down a couple spots whenever those get done, maybe lawrence too, but i think they are paying jones at about the level they like him.

But I don't feel we missed out on over drafting mediocrity.

In comment 16490618 Marty in Albany said:

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with picks at 8, 10, and 12, and that the Giants passed on those QBs. Apparently, the Giants felt that WR Nabers was better choice than those QBs selected in the top half of Round One. Also, that even if they wanted to replace Jones, this moment in time is not the best time to do it. I think we can agree (most of us) that the Giants know a lot more about football than we do. However, they also know something that is even more important. They know that their knowledge is NOT enough to predict the future. They know there are risks that are outside of their control, or anyone else's control. So the Giants try to minimize the risks when they can, and hope for good luck. It seems to me that they chose "the devil you know" over "the devil you don't." I can't blame them for that. But I sure as fuck don't know if they are right, and neither do you.

Couldn't have said it better.

I think the league viewed Maye as an elite prospect. He was picked third overall and had other teams trying to move up to get him.

Just because the Giants pursued an elite prospect, doesn't mean they don't like the incumbent.

There were younger, healthier, and cheaper prospects, all who went in the top 12.

Their actions last night said we would rather have Daniel Jones, who is on a 160M contract, coming off a torn ACL and neck stinger.

In comment 16490613 christian said:

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They just established they would rather go into battle with Jones, than develop one of the three prospects available at 6. He's their guy. I think they've bet their careers on him.

Well I might be alone in this but I am very much looking forward to January 2025 or January 2026 and our next regime change press conference.

In comment 16490540 bluefin said:

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he wasn’t drafted by this management; and Daboll will not hesitate to bench Jones if he thinks Drew Lock is a better option.

You honestly really believe that?

And this management signed Jones to a monster deal....that matters a lot.

Jones is the guy in 2024 and easily could still be in 2025. I'm not sure how thats even debatable at this point.

So some asshat that no one knows says Mara nixed the deal. Lets face it. It may be true or maybe its not. The main thing is we will likely never know the truth.

In comment 16490696 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 16490540 bluefin said: Quote: he wasn’t drafted by this management; and Daboll will not hesitate to bench Jones if he thinks Drew Lock is a better option. You honestly really believe that? And this management signed Jones to a monster deal....that matters a lot. Jones is the guy in 2024 and easily could still be in 2025. I'm not sure how thats even debatable at this point.

Jones being "the guy" in 2025 would be absolute insanity, and would make me want to sell my season tickets for the entire year. I want to throw up thinkin about it.

In comment 16490432 Bold Ruler said:

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Or was it Mara axing the potential deal because it was too expensive?

Why do you think Mara axed the deal? Could it be that Schoen felt the Patriots were asking for too much? Or that there was a conversation between all involved and there was an agreement that it was too much to give up? Or maybe the Patriots were so enamored with Maye that they were never really going to trade the pick without victimizing their trade partner. Or maybe Schoen wanted McCarthy and didn't expect the Chargers to leave Nabers on the board. In the presser, he seemed to imply that he was shocked because SD traded away Allen and Williams. So maybe they planned on McCarthy and when Nabers was available he was so high up on their board that they couldn't pass him up?

The idea that Mara was standing over Schoen's shoulder whispering "No." is ludicrous. GTFO

In comment 16490486 Lambuth_Special said:

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In comment 16490439 Sammo85 said: Quote: I think they overvalue Jones for what he is but also abuse themselves into notion they have to “help” him. There’s kind of some internal conflict I see with how they talk and have handled Jones in this new regime. Even Judge did this. I always think back to Judge - after getting fired due in part to Jones unreliability in health and performance - immediately volunteering how much he loved Jones, as pretty telling in all of this. Danny is Rasputin in football pads.

Judge got canned because he was a con artist that sold the FO a cure and delivered snake oil. His staff was a mess across the board and he ran the most conservative offense since Ray fucking Handley . But the REAL and ABSOLUTE reason he got canned was victory formation on his own 15 while losing after just calling Washington a clown show in public. DJ didn't get him fired. He MAY get Daboll fired... but that's because they actually are making it easy this season to isolate QB as the issue. But if DJ has a career year, he will be labeled the King Maker.

Hardly. They don’t openly scout as many QBs as they did if they were confident in Jones.

that they had Russell Wilson visit, then spent the last 3 months doing deep dives on every QB available, then made an offer to trade up.

To make an anology..if that's how highly your wife thinks of you it's time for a divorce lawyer, cuz she's out here auditioning new dicks.

1.) They won a few too many games last year to be in position to take one of the top 3 QB’s

2.) All three teams at the top needed QB’s, usually one of the bad teams up top has a young QB and is looking to trade down with a team like the Giants to amass picks. Not the case this year.

3.) The only team in the top 3 even remotely interested in trading was NE, who wanted reportedly more than #6, 2025 1st (which we know would be high with a rookie QB), #47, and a 2025 3rd. Thats a very very steep price to pay for the third QB picked in the draft.

4.) The Giants clearly did not think very highly of Penix, Nix, or JJM. If they did they would have picked them at 6.

5.) This is not the 2004 Giants who were mostly stacked and just needed a few pieces. This is a bad team with holes all over the roster. They took what could be the best, or top 3 anyway, player in the draft at a great position of need.

6.) They clearly aren’t that thrilled with Jones. Otherwise they wouldn’t have been trying to trade up for Maye. Unless Jones suddenly emerges as some great QB in year 6 we’ll be aggressively trading up for a QB in 2025.

In comment 16490735 Bear vs Shark said:

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In comment 16490696 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: In comment 16490540 bluefin said: Quote: he wasn’t drafted by this management; and Daboll will not hesitate to bench Jones if he thinks Drew Lock is a better option. You honestly really believe that? And this management signed Jones to a monster deal....that matters a lot. Jones is the guy in 2024 and easily could still be in 2025. I'm not sure how thats even debatable at this point. Jones being "the guy" in 2025 would be absolute insanity, and would make me want to sell my season tickets for the entire year. I want to throw up thinkin about it.

I think its a lot more likely than people realize. If he has a "good enough" year, and they are picking in the middle of the draft with weak QB prospects, I doubt they move off him.

In comment 16490438 Tim in Eternal Blue said:

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that possibly all 3 are gone next year. Jones would have killed his 3rd head coach.

You're really asserting that Jones killed Shermur and Judge's careers here? They were both incompetent boobs they killed themselves

turns out to be Purdy- with enough weapons around you...

I agree with most of your thoughts outside of the state of the 2004 team. The Giants added a lot of talent to that team.

Daboll is coaching to keep his job this season regardless of what happened last night.

In comment 16490581 Jim in Hoboken said:

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stays healthy. If not, everyone deserves to be fired. Too bad we can’t fire Mara.

LOL!!!
There will continue to be excuses. The only difference is the believers will have to get more creative with those excuses.

In comment 16490904 jvm52106 said:

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turns out to be Purdy- with enough weapons around you...

I still like Devito. I wouldn’t be surprised if he outshines Lock and possibly Jones in training camp. Crazier things have happened.

NE did too and picked higher.

McCarthy fell to them and they feel he is not able to be the guy.

So they went BPA with a player they like who supposedly will be a dominant WR.

We shall see. If McCarthy looks good it will be tough to watch. Same with Nix and Penix.

There are not unlimited oppurtunities to get a franchise QB. I did think with this draft position and number of QBs they would get one. QB is the top need, the team has no Quarterback.

Thinking of another season with Jones though. No TD passes, no scoring in a league stacked for scoring, can't stay healthy, is depressing for some fans I think, myself included. Hopefully he still has his speed after his knee exploded. His running is basically his whole game.

In comment 16490844 eric2425ny said:

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6.) They clearly aren’t that thrilled with Jones. Otherwise they wouldn’t have been trying to trade up for Maye. Unless Jones suddenly emerges as some great QB in year 6 we’ll be aggressively trading up for a QB in 2025.

So simple it took 6 long bullets = )

Thrilled is a good word. I think they needed to be thrilled by a prospect to move off of Jones.

Maye appears to be that prospect. McCarthy and Nix clearly weren't.

When the Giants like Jones more than the quarterbacks O'Connell and Payton tie their jobs to, that says something to me.

In comment 16490477 christian said:

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In comment 16490463 Mbavaro said: Quote: Or was it Mara axing the potential deal because it was too expensive? Exactly…the OP makes no sense If they are going all in…then why did they try to move up? This is the same point I explained to you repeatedly last night. If the Giants had a list of quarterback they liked in order, and it went: Mayes Jones Penix McCarthy Nix Do the Giants like Jones. Yes or no?

No, this is absolutely flawed logic. You don’t take a QB 6th just because you think he’d be an improvement over Jones, you take him 6th because you are convinced he can come a franchise QB, I don’t know why you’re struggling with that concept.

they simply didn't love the QBs available at 6.

It's really not that complicated.

Like I said, the Giants also didn't draft Alt or a highly ranked corner. They must love Cordell Flott! And they must love Evan NEal.

OR, they just couldn't bypass a HR hitting WR with more pelts on his wall than any other WR not named Marvin Harrison JR. Need met value.

Do some of you really believe the Giants don't draft a QB if they are picking first overall? I mean it's possible, but not likely. Odds are they pick Williams or Daniels.

Timing is everything. Not everything is so weird.

In comment 16490540 bluefin said:

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he wasn’t drafted by this management; and Daboll will not hesitate to bench Jones if he thinks Drew Lock is a better option.

I really don't think it matters who plays, Jones or Lock. They are sort of the same, a decent backup level guy. Let Jones stay injured, I'm fine with it

In comment 16491014 Section331 said:

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This is the same point I explained to you repeatedly last night. If the Giants had a list of quarterback they liked in order, and it went: Mayes Jones Penix McCarthy Nix Do the Giants like Jones. Yes or no? No, this is absolutely flawed logic. You don’t take a QB 6th just because you think he’d be an improvement over Jones, you take him 6th because you are convinced he can come a franchise QB, I don’t know why you’re struggling with that concept.

That's exactly what I'm saying dipshit.

They voted with their dollars in 2023 that Jones was a franchise QB by giving him a 160M contract with 82M guaranteed. At the time it was comfortably within the top 10 in total dollars and AAV.

To move them off that decision, they clearly need to be convinced the prospect will meet or exceed the expectations they had/have for Jones.

I would bet all the tea in china 75 % of these QBs drafted end up as enigmatic QBs. 2, maybe 3 will be good. One MIGHT be great or even transcendent.

It's common think around here to believe in the throw darts at the wall theory and pick any QB because DJ makes me mad. Common think. Not necessarily the right way to operate.

For posterity, let's all agree DJ is a placeholder. He's a PRO who carries himself well for a franchise that wants that type of QB. Fine, he aint good enough to give you the warm and fuzzies. And gasp, he makes money. OK. You win. PLaceholder. Just like Tyrod Taylor would have been and many here wanted that. Fine Jones makes more money so we cannot throw one huge offer at some FA. Live with that. We're talking one player who could fail here too. Get over that part. Jones gets one more year. God forbid we duplicate 2022 one more time. That would be awful I guess, and impossible. OK fine, he shits the bed, and NYG move off him this time next year.

Or, post the same tired complaining and over the top hysterics every day. Maybe it's cathartic for some of you.

In comment 16491065 djm said:

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Or, post the same tired complaining and over the top hysterics every day. Maybe it's cathartic for some of you.

Get out of here. The number one contribution you make to this site is bursting into threads, firing off a bunch of repetitive posts, getting yourself frustrated, apologizing, promising you're done, then keeping it up.

Can you at least try and contribute to the debate? Or then at the least stay the fuck out and not be such a baby?

In comment 16491058 christian said:

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In comment 16491014 Section331 said: Quote: This is the same point I explained to you repeatedly last night. If the Giants had a list of quarterback they liked in order, and it went: Mayes Jones Penix McCarthy Nix Do the Giants like Jones. Yes or no? No, this is absolutely flawed logic. You don’t take a QB 6th just because you think he’d be an improvement over Jones, you take him 6th because you are convinced he can come a franchise QB, I don’t know why you’re struggling with that concept. That's exactly what I'm saying dipshit. They voted with their dollars in 2023 that Jones was a franchise QB by giving him a 160M contract with 82M guaranteed. At the time it was comfortably within the top 10 in total dollars and AAV. To move them off that decision, they clearly need to be convinced the prospect will meet or exceed the expectations they had/have for Jones.

No it is not what you’re saying, and I respect you too much as a poster to call you a dipshit. I don’t agree that the prospect merely had to be better than Jones, he had to be a guy they could see holding down the position for the next decade.

I am in the camp that they never viewed Jones that way, and offered a high AAV contract in exchange for its brevity. Even if Jones had replicated his 2022 last year, they would have been planning for his replacement. Maybe not this draft, but definitely in 2025.

In comment 16490438 Tim in Eternal Blue said:

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that possibly all 3 are gone next year. Jones would have killed his 3rd head coach.

Jones didn't kill any coach... so please stop with that.

Shurmur had Jones paying well. The defense cost Shurmur his job. He also wasn't a very good HC.

Joe Judge was outright horrible.

We are at a point that if the offensive line plays half way decent against good competition and the defense can now get off the field, the running game gets going and opens up legitimate play action (That is what Jones's skill set depends on)... maybe the team can start winning.

I apologize for being insulting, that's uncalled for. See my thread about a cat climbing up nose and scratching my brain.

I disagree. I think Schoen rewarded Jones with the 7th highest full guarantees, AAV, and total dollars of any contract in NFL history at the time -- because he believed Jones was the answer.

I do think other teams feel more strongly about their QBs. At the time there were 6 and now there are 9 quarterbacks rewarded more lucratively.

Never-the-less, that' not placeholder commitment, that's trust you commitment.

he has healed enough to practice.

The Giants tried to trade up to get Maye. They didn’t feel like McCarthy or any other QB was better than what they already have. Why is that hard to understand?

Getting Maye was too costly. So the Giants did the smart thing and went with the best player available and arguably the 2nd best player in the draft. Everyone is projecting him to be an elite player. In January there were a lot of people who thought McCarthy was a 2nd rounder.

You should be happy that your team didn’t reach for a QB. This move is not an indication one way or the other that they believe in DJ. They just believe that DJ plus Nabers is better than any of the rookie QBs available and no Nabers.

Be happy that we got a potential stud.

In comment 16490843 j_rud said:

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that they had Russell Wilson visit, then spent the last 3 months doing deep dives on every QB available, then made an offer to trade up. To make an anology..if that's how highly your wife thinks of you it's time for a divorce lawyer, cuz she's out here auditioning new dicks.

BFD. They had some dinners out and then supposedly refused to trade up because of course "the price was too high."