Obviously, Jones is now a stopgap QB here. Schdabs were working to tradeup for Maye. This cannot be denied. If they felt full bloom conviction, they would have paid whatever it took.
I for one am glad they didn't and I honestly think they might have gotten lucky because I have serious concerns about Maye's tendency to crumble mentally in the pocket locking in on first read, running into sacks, throwing interceptions, and just generally getting flustered. Chris Simms had him at 6th ranked QB for a reason. If he wasn't risky, NE wouldn't have even entertained any offers.
Daboll obviously didn't feel comfortable with the prospect of reworking JJM's throwing motion, touch and accuracy on deep throws. If he felt like he could improve those aspects, he would have been the pick. They likely didn't have round 1 grades on QBs 4-6.
We also would have been wasting 1.5-2 years of the rookie QB contract with Jones on the books for 70 million minimum in the next two years. That's a big factor too. Sy has mentioned this.
Now, let's get to the premise of the post: what is the benefit of not taking a QB in a historic QB class that had more QBs taken in the first round than anyone has seen in 41 years since 1983?
Look at the potentially QB needy teams for the 2025 draft: LAR, NO, PIT, SEA, DAL, TB, NYJ. I see us likely picking far ahead of all those teams in the 3-12 pick range with 5-8 wins.
The 2025 NFL draft is not weak or bad, it will likely be average and who knows what kind of wildcards might arise as Burrow and Daniels did in their final seasons. The current list of promising QB prospects consist of Jaxson Dart, Quinn Ewers, Shedeur Sanders, Cam Ward, Carson Beck, Quinn Ewers and Riley Leonard. I'd say there will be 3-4 first rounders. I love Jaxon Dart and I like Cam Ward while the others have real promise too.
Jaxson Dart is the one to watch in my perspective. He had 3400yds, 9.4ypa, 23 tds and 5 ints to go with 400yds rushing and 8tds on the ground. He led Ole Miss to an 11-2 record, 10th ranking and a bowl win against Penn St in which he helped put up 38 points against a formidable defense. He beat Jayden Daniels and LSU in a shootout. He will be about the age of Drake Maye at draft time, 22 in May of 2025. Maybe we could have success going back to the Ole Miss QB well?
All of this is to say we shouldn't be down on Schoen and Daboll just because they didn't trade the farm for Maye and didn't take JJM or Penix or Nix. I like our odds at getting a promising QB prospect in the draft next year and the class is definitely underrated by many here. Here's to continuing the rebuild and nailing the QB pick without giving up a haul while having a good supporting cast!
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In comment 16491202 Andrew in Austin said:
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Maybe in the Dak sweepstakes.
Not a huge fan of Ewers, maybe it is just the games I've been to / watched, but his decision making needs to improve.
Mueller?
I'm not a big fan of Ewers right now either. I really like Ward and Dart right now. I know some are high on Beck. Then of course Sanders, I like him as a player but don't like his size and arrogant taunting stuff like flashing his rollex at opposing fans.
I think we can all safely assume John Mara is not letting Schoen pick a QB who flashes his Rolex at opponents to taunt them.
Lol yeah, I hope Sanders is qb1. I really am feeling Dart or Ward and I think we could be in the sweet spot for one of them.
If they had given up the farm for Williams or Daniels, I would be dancing in the street. JJ McCarthy? No thanks.
If they had given up the farm for Williams or Daniels, I would be dancing in the street. JJ McCarthy? No thanks.
It’s hilarious to me that some posters basically wish they would have taken any QB at 6, regardless of them being over drafted on paper to replace the QB we have who was also over drafted at 6 and they hate.
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just enough games to not get our guy next year and on we go in what seems like a permanent residence in QB hell.
And if we picked JJM and he turned out to be another Daniel Jones?
Don't give him a stupid contract and try again.
Giants will continue to look at college QB's and be ready to pounce when talent meets opportunity imv if needed.
Interested to see how this Dart kid does at Ole Miss. I see him rising. Some of the QB's do have some size concerns imv.
It’s not that Schoen and Daboll love Daniel Jones. They gave him what amounts to a 2 year contract.
What they will NOT do, and have said this repeatedly, is just take a player that doesn’t fit the grade. You make your team worse by doing that. That is why they did not take McCarthy, and ended up taking what could be the best non QB player in the entire draft at 6 overall.
Again, you are making an argument out of thin air.
Everyone agrees Jones is not the best possible QB of the future of this franchise.
However - the Giants played their cards the best they could. And most everyone agrees they had one of the best nights of any team.
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Everyone keeps saying Jones is a stopgap.
There’s a chance the Giants are good this coming season. And have a moderately low pick in the 2024 draft.
Not saying it’s definitely happening, but the schedule is softer.
Where are you getting a QB next year if this happens?
God help me for saying this, but I agree with ryan.
We are likely to be in a worse position to get a QB next year than we were this year. Schoen is clearly open to upgrading the QB position, but is not hell bent on it.
What supports the view that there will be numerous top QB prospects in next year's draft and the Giants will be able to pick one without giving up assets?
We must be living in a parallel universe!
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In comment 16491157 ryanmkeane said:
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Everyone keeps saying Jones is a stopgap.
There’s a chance the Giants are good this coming season. And have a moderately low pick in the 2024 draft.
Not saying it’s definitely happening, but the schedule is softer.
Where are you getting a QB next year if this happens?
God help me for saying this, but I agree with ryan.
We are likely to be in a worse position to get a QB next year than we were this year. Schoen is clearly open to upgrading the QB position, but is not hell bent on it.
What supports the view that there will be numerous top QB prospects in next year's draft and the Giants will be able to pick one without giving up assets?
We must be living in a parallel universe!
We should probably both take a break from BBI!
Giants will continue to look at college QB's and be ready to pounce when talent meets opportunity imv if needed.
Interested to see how this Dart kid does at Ole Miss. I see him rising. Some of the QB's do have some size concerns imv.
I’m interested to see what Deboer does with Milroe down at Alabama too.
I don’t have any faith Franklin will truly develop Allar properly and Allar has struck me as soft a bit on the mental and emotional intelligence side.
But from a body type and tools standpoint those are two to watch along with Beck, Dart, Ward, Ewers. I’m not a big fan of Sanders.
It’s not that Schoen and Daboll love Daniel Jones. They gave him what amounts to a 2 year contract.
What they will NOT do, and have said this repeatedly, is just take a player that doesn’t fit the grade. You make your team worse by doing that. That is why they did not take McCarthy, and ended up taking what could be the best non QB player in the entire draft at 6 overall.
100% agree. This is why they have scouts to analyze the players.
You're gonna keep doing this huh...
OK.
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In comment 16491171 crooza172 said:
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just enough games to not get our guy next year and on we go in what seems like a permanent residence in QB hell.
And if we picked JJM and he turned out to be another Daniel Jones?
Don't give him a stupid contract and try again.
I loved JJM as a prospect, but if he wasn't the goods and we missed out on a QB prospect in a year without much competition for QBs in the 2025 draft because we had him then that's just like the situation with Jones in 2019 and Herbert there for the taking in 2020.
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in terms of QB's drafted high in the first round but it still has to play out to determine if it is historic in results.
Giants will continue to look at college QB's and be ready to pounce when talent meets opportunity imv if needed.
Interested to see how this Dart kid does at Ole Miss. I see him rising. Some of the QB's do have some size concerns imv.
I’m interested to see what Deboer does with Milroe down at Alabama too.
I don’t have any faith Franklin will truly develop Allar properly and Allar has struck me as soft a bit on the mental and emotional intelligence side.
But from a body type and tools standpoint those are two to watch along with Beck, Dart, Ward, Ewers. I’m not a big fan of Sanders.
Agreed, good points.
It’s not that Schoen and Daboll love Daniel Jones. They gave him what amounts to a 2 year contract.
What they will NOT do, and have said this repeatedly, is just take a player that doesn’t fit the grade. You make your team worse by doing that. That is why they did not take McCarthy, and ended up taking what could be the best non QB player in the entire draft at 6 overall.
When they're fired next January I'm sure they'll be happy with not having taken a player that didn't meet their grade. I don't see them getting a shot at QB now. Last night was their opportunity and they went WR. Their tenure and possibly careers are now tied to him regardless if they love him or not, or tried everything they could to replace him.
Well, its historic in the sense that more QBs were taken in rd1 than we have seen in 41 years since 1983. Whether the class ends up being historic remains to be seen.
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To be honest, not trying to sound like a dick but some of you are just not understanding this issue.
It’s not that Schoen and Daboll love Daniel Jones. They gave him what amounts to a 2 year contract.
What they will NOT do, and have said this repeatedly, is just take a player that doesn’t fit the grade. You make your team worse by doing that. That is why they did not take McCarthy, and ended up taking what could be the best non QB player in the entire draft at 6 overall.
When they're fired next January I'm sure they'll be happy with not having taken a player that didn't meet their grade. I don't see them getting a shot at QB now. Last night was their opportunity and they went WR. Their tenure and possibly careers are now tied to him regardless if they love him or not, or tried everything they could to replace him.
It could be rough if one or two of JJM, Penix and Nix looks like the goods. Even just JJM alone. That would be tough for them to whether if they don't make leaps and bounds quickly. If they get a shot at QB in 2025 draft, that would give them some time.
Again, every football person on earth is praising the Giants draft night last night.
It’s not that Schoen and Daboll love Daniel Jones. They gave him what amounts to a 2 year contract.
What they will NOT do, and have said this repeatedly, is just take a player that doesn’t fit the grade. You make your team worse by doing that. That is why they did not take McCarthy, and ended up taking what could be the best non QB player in the entire draft at 6 overall.
Its not a 2 year contract. People really need to stop saying this.
And they are in fully support of Jones, can't debate that anymore. He is their guy.
It’s not that Schoen and Daboll love Daniel Jones. They gave him what amounts to a 2 year contract.
What they will NOT do, and have said this repeatedly, is just take a player that doesn’t fit the grade. You make your team worse by doing that. That is why they did not take McCarthy, and ended up taking what could be the best non QB player in the entire draft at 6 overall.
So your position is that Schoen/Daboll wont draft a QB they dont love but they will pay a QB they dont love 4 yrs 160 million dollars with an injury guarantee ?
To compare, Bills are paying Diggs 31 million dollars not to play for them this year, and he’s a wide receiver.
If Schoen and Daboll loved Daniel Jones, they would have given him more money. Instead, they gave him what amounts to be a really solid contract for 2 seasons.
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In comment 16491187 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16491157 ryanmkeane said:
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Everyone keeps saying Jones is a stopgap.
There’s a chance the Giants are good this coming season. And have a moderately low pick in the 2024 draft.
Not saying it’s definitely happening, but the schedule is softer.
Where are you getting a QB next year if this happens?
God help me for saying this, but I agree with ryan.
We are likely to be in a worse position to get a QB next year than we were this year. Schoen is clearly open to upgrading the QB position, but is not hell bent on it.
What supports the view that there will be numerous top QB prospects in next year's draft and the Giants will be able to pick one without giving up assets?
We must be living in a parallel universe!
We should probably both take a break from BBI!
I am going to play the role of ‘moment ruiner’. I like seeing you two engaging in banter.
Again, every football person on earth is praising the Giants draft night last night.
They won't be fired with a bad season, but they would definitely be on the hot seat and in severe need of a rookie qb then. Luckily, they won't have much competition. And I'm telling yall watch Jaxson Dart. Ward is a beast too, was in the early Heisman conversation. I'm excited to see how he does on a better team in Miami.
After a 7-2 start in 2022, this team has been one of the worst in the NFL. 2023 was a disaster. If 2024 is another season over by Halloween, it is fair to hold the opinion we may not have hired the right people.
God help me for saying this, but I agree with ryan.
/////////
We must be living in a parallel universe!
Well, to be fair, you have changed your stripes a good bit in your parallel universe. (:
But left out of so many of the threads on soldiering on with DJ for another year is the very real risk of injury triggering Year 3 under his contract, for cap space purposes.
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To be honest, not trying to sound like a dick but some of you are just not understanding this issue.
It’s not that Schoen and Daboll love Daniel Jones. They gave him what amounts to a 2 year contract.
What they will NOT do, and have said this repeatedly, is just take a player that doesn’t fit the grade. You make your team worse by doing that. That is why they did not take McCarthy, and ended up taking what could be the best non QB player in the entire draft at 6 overall.
Its not a 2 year contract. People really need to stop saying this.
And they are in fully support of Jones, can't debate that anymore. He is their guy.
They made serious efforts to trade up for a QB but didn't have the full bloom conviction to overpay and I don't blame them. Then QBs 4-6 were likely not first round grades. This isn't a testament of being all in on Jones.
Let's see how he does in Miami this year first. His offensive line was as bad as it gets.
After a 7-2 start in 2022, this team has been one of the worst in the NFL. 2023 was a disaster. If 2024 is another season over by Halloween, it is fair to hold the opinion we may not have hired the right people.
This is what I see happening, lucky for them they will likely be picking well ahead of the other QB needy teams and have a legit shot without overpay for a promising QB prospect.
If Schoen and Daboll loved Daniel Jones, they would have given him more money. Instead, they gave him what amounts to be a really solid contract for 2 seasons.
40 mil per season is a “really solid contract”. Interesting definition. Id like to work for you
He is the highest paid player on the team by more than double
Highest paid player in history of Giants
He was 10th highest paid player in the NFL last season
He has the 12th highest guarantee at signing in NFL
He has 11th highest total value contract of QBs in NFL
Agreed, the combination of only around 15 rd1 graded prospects and lots of QB needy teams led to this and we could benefit greatly from it next year.
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Those fumble numbers are ugly.
Let's see how he does in Miami this year first. His offensive line was as bad as it gets.
Fair, but Mario hasn’t really been favorable to QB development
I think they’ll rack up at least 7 or 8 wins next year. They’ll have to give up a couple of firsts and probably even a few seconds to move up from what will likely be the middle of the first round.
I do not like this argument at all. Clearly there is a line in the sand for trading up as seen with their inability to get to 3 yesterday.
Trading a couple of firsts and seconds in what is perceived as a down year in QBs next year seems counterintuitive.
If they wanted to do that why not just meet NE's price yesterday for a prospect they had some conviction on.
If the hope is for a QB next year we as fans need to hope they get the No. 1 pick to make sure they have the pick of the litter.
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In comment 16491424 ajr2456 said:
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Those fumble numbers are ugly.
Let's see how he does in Miami this year first. His offensive line was as bad as it gets.
Fair, but Mario hasn’t really been favorable to QB development
True, so all the more praise to Ward if he crushes it.
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I think they’ll rack up at least 7 or 8 wins next year. They’ll have to give up a couple of firsts and probably even a few seconds to move up from what will likely be the middle of the first round.
I do not like this argument at all. Clearly there is a line in the sand for trading up as seen with their inability to get to 3 yesterday.
Trading a couple of firsts and seconds in what is perceived as a down year in QBs next year seems counterintuitive.
If they wanted to do that why not just meet NE's price yesterday for a prospect they had some conviction on.
If the hope is for a QB next year we as fans need to hope they get the No. 1 pick to make sure they have the pick of the litter.
They likely won't have anyone in front of them. Could be a year like with Mahomes where he went 10th as the 2nd QB. Sanders is the betting favorite for qb1 and we won't want him. I predict Dart as qb2 in our wheelhouse where we pick! And we will hopefully have a solid roster to back him.
The fact that Schdabs didn't pay whatever it took tells me they saw the bust potential of Maye and don't want to overpay. That was a great move. I'm not going to pout about JJM not being the pick, obviously Daboll n Co know better than I do. I was praying he would be the pick if I'm being honest. His throwing motion and lack of touch/accuracy on the money balls was obviously too much in Daboll's mind. So be it.
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Everyone keeps saying Jones is a stopgap.
There’s a chance the Giants are good this coming season. And have a moderately low pick in the 2024 draft.
Not saying it’s definitely happening, but the schedule is softer.
Where are you getting a QB next year if this happens?
I'll be rooting for him! Then again many good QBs have been had in the draft from teams in the teens to 20s: Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and others. I like our chances next year to be picking ahead of all the QB needy teams and not having to trade the farm if we move up.
Nevertheless, I love DJ. My family was at his incredible game against TB as a rookie. If he breaks through in a big way, that would be amazing! I'm trying to think of times where a QB has played average to below average for 5 years and had significant injuries only to break through big around year 6. I'm sure there are many good examples, none I can think of off the top of my head. Bueller?
Become a starter, a couple. Hoss on the Giants, Warner, Favre & Unitas a couple of years. Break thru in a big way after 6 years, can't remember any in the last several decades. The die is usually cast in a few years, DJ is what he has been and has a serious injury history to boot.
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In comment 16491157 ryanmkeane said:
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Everyone keeps saying Jones is a stopgap.
There’s a chance the Giants are good this coming season. And have a moderately low pick in the 2024 draft.
Not saying it’s definitely happening, but the schedule is softer.
Where are you getting a QB next year if this happens?
I'll be rooting for him! Then again many good QBs have been had in the draft from teams in the teens to 20s: Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and others. I like our chances next year to be picking ahead of all the QB needy teams and not having to trade the farm if we move up.
Nevertheless, I love DJ. My family was at his incredible game against TB as a rookie. If he breaks through in a big way, that would be amazing! I'm trying to think of times where a QB has played average to below average for 5 years and had significant injuries only to break through big around year 6. I'm sure there are many good examples, none I can think of off the top of my head. Bueller?
Become a starter, a couple. Hoss on the Giants, Warner, Favre & Unitas a couple of years. Break thru in a big way after 6 years, can't remember any in the last several decades. The die is usually cast in a few years, DJ is what he has been and has a serious injury history to boot.
Yeah, that's what I came up with too. I can't think of any historic examples. Which leads me to believe we will likely have a high pick next year and I like our chances of getting a QB prospect on par or better than Maye because I don't think it's a bad QB class. It projects to be average and could be better than average depending on how the season goes.
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Though. What if they wanted 3 firsts?
The fact that Schdabs didn't pay whatever it took tells me they saw the bust potential of Maye and don't want to overpay. That was a great move. I'm not going to pout about JJM not being the pick, obviously Daboll n Co know better than I do. I was praying he would be the pick if I'm being honest. His throwing motion and lack of touch/accuracy on the money balls was obviously too much in Daboll's mind. So be it.
Maybe but I don’t think any recent QB outside of Andrew Luck would have been worth giving up 3 firsts if that was the ask of New England.
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In comment 16491510 ajr2456 said:
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Though. What if they wanted 3 firsts?
The fact that Schdabs didn't pay whatever it took tells me they saw the bust potential of Maye and don't want to overpay. That was a great move. I'm not going to pout about JJM not being the pick, obviously Daboll n Co know better than I do. I was praying he would be the pick if I'm being honest. His throwing motion and lack of touch/accuracy on the money balls was obviously too much in Daboll's mind. So be it.
Maybe but I don’t think any recent QB outside of Andrew Luck would have been worth giving up 3 firsts if that was the ask of New England.
Agreed, but I get the sense they were very close in negotiation. Perhaps they wanted pick 47 and Schoen didn't want to do that. The rumor of pick 6, 2025 1st and 3rd sounds accurate. I bet they wanted pick 6, 47 and 2025 1st and Schoen said no. If they felt true conviction, they would have done it I think. Maye has a lot of bust potential. I don't love him and I'm happier with Nabers than trading a haul for him.
After a 7-2 start in 2022, this team has been one of the worst in the NFL. 2023 was a disaster. If 2024 is another season over by Halloween, it is fair to hold the opinion we may not have hired the right people.
Imagine a 4-6 win team AND Jones injury guarantee triggers
I don't see how the survive that
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Schoen and Daboll will absolutely be on the hot seat. The team can't stay bad indefinitely while everyone keeps their jobs.
After a 7-2 start in 2022, this team has been one of the worst in the NFL. 2023 was a disaster. If 2024 is another season over by Halloween, it is fair to hold the opinion we may not have hired the right people.
Imagine a 4-6 win team AND Jones injury guarantee triggers
I don't see how the survive that
That would be rough but nailing a QB pick would be a remedy for them.
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HardTruth, you must not be paying attention or reading anything I actually say.
If Schoen and Daboll loved Daniel Jones, they would have given him more money. Instead, they gave him what amounts to be a really solid contract for 2 seasons.
40 mil per season is a “really solid contract”. Interesting definition. Id like to work for you
He is the highest paid player on the team by more than double
Highest paid player in history of Giants
He was 10th highest paid player in the NFL last season
He has the 12th highest guarantee at signing in NFL
He has 11th highest total value contract of QBs in NFL
Well put and I don’t understand why fans downplay this contract. It is a bad contract that will most likely severely hurt this team for 3 seasons. Or maybe he performs to a top 10 level in 2024 and beyond- miracles happen.