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QB- Having a Conviction/Full Bloom Love

LW_Giants : 4/26/2024 5:41 pm
If the Giants have to be in full bloom love with a qb prospect and have an absolute conviction that the person will be the guy, doesn’t that give them an excuse to not pick a qb every year unless they are picking 1-3 overall?

I’m trying to think through this narrative. What are the chances that if the bar for being willing to take a chance on a qb are so high, that they will ever have more than 1 maybe 2 guys per draft worth trying to get at the position?
Just stop already  
bLiTz 2k : 4/26/2024 5:45 pm : link
Some of you sound absolutely brain dead.
Because they aren’t spending 6 overall (a major asset)  
UConn4523 : 4/26/2024 5:47 pm : link
on a player who’s not close to that value, pretty simple. I thought they would, they didn’t. Move on.
You trust your process  
RomanWH : 4/26/2024 5:49 pm : link
You scout, you analyze, you create your draft board. Trust that you are picking the highest graded player on your board. If it happens to coincide with a position of need, then all the better. But you don't go into panic mode and pick a lesser graded player. Defeats the whole point of devoting hours and hours of time studying game film, going over medicals, background checks, etc.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/26/2024 5:49 pm : link
This site has gone insane.

Joe all but offered his first born to move up to 3 to take Drake. Pats said no.

Giants didn’t view JJM as worthy of 6th pick. They might be right, they might be wrong. TBD.
RE: You trust your process  
LW_Giants : 4/26/2024 5:52 pm : link
In comment 16492553 RomanWH said:
Quote:
You scout, you analyze, you create your draft board. Trust that you are picking the highest graded player on your board. If it happens to coincide with a position of need, then all the better. But you don't go into panic mode and pick a lesser graded player. Defeats the whole point of devoting hours and hours of time studying game film, going over medicals, background checks, etc.


I completely agree. And I think the Giants certainly did all they could to get Maye. I guess I’m more wondering if given qb dominance of the game, teams should be more frequently be taking chances on qb’s and or taking into account positional value. There are arguments for or against, I’m torn myself over it.
The Go Terps method of team building  
RomanWH : 4/26/2024 6:00 pm : link
includes taking swings at the QB position every couple of years. No scholarships. Nothing is given. Get guys in the building and have an open competition. If whomever doesn't show like they are elite by year 2, time to move on.
no  
SteelGiant : 4/26/2024 6:00 pm : link
It could be you are picking 10th and you love Patrick Mahomes, he is there and you are in full bloom love with him. Some pundits think you are crazy but you take him anyway.

Or maybe you jump into the bottom of thefirst and grab Lamar Jackson

Or maybe 7th overall for Josh Allen

Or 6th for Justin Herbert



That is what happened, facts.
Yep this is right on  
Jerry in_DC : 4/26/2024 6:05 pm : link
The criteria that many fans, and perhaps the Giants decision makers, have will result in a QB for life situation.

Other teams understand that QBs get pushed up the draft board. Correctly. Because hitting on a QB is a franchise-changing event. So you have to take some chances. If you wait until value, preference, and availability align like an eclipse, you will not draft a QB for a long long time.
RE: The Go Terps method of team building  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/26/2024 6:08 pm : link
In comment 16492576 RomanWH said:
Quote:
includes taking swings at the QB position every couple of years. No scholarships. Nothing is given. Get guys in the building and have an open competition. If whomever doesn't show like they are elite by year 2, time to move on.


LOL. And that method rarely works. Who are these teams that take frequent swings at the QB position without scholarships?

You win by getting franchise QB's, but they can be had in a variety of ways and with teams doing poorly or well. The key is that it is really damn hard to tell who the franchise guys are. Go Terps method is no better than others. Just because he bombards people saying it is right doesn't make it true. All it does is make him sound like George Costanza.

He talks incessantly about moving past mistakes quickly like Haskins, Rosen or soon to be Willis. How's that working out for Wash, Arizona and Tenn?
RE: RE: The Go Terps method of team building  
LW_Giants : 4/26/2024 6:11 pm : link
In comment 16492602 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16492576 RomanWH said:


Quote:


includes taking swings at the QB position every couple of years. No scholarships. Nothing is given. Get guys in the building and have an open competition. If whomever doesn't show like they are elite by year 2, time to move on.



LOL. And that method rarely works. Who are these teams that take frequent swings at the QB position without scholarships?

You win by getting franchise QB's, but they can be had in a variety of ways and with teams doing poorly or well. The key is that it is really damn hard to tell who the franchise guys are. Go Terps method is no better than others. Just because he bombards people saying it is right doesn't make it true. All it does is make him sound like George Costanza.

He talks incessantly about moving past mistakes quickly like Haskins, Rosen or soon to be Willis. How's that working out for Wash, Arizona and Tenn?


Shouldn’t there be a middle ground between the two approaches though? There are plenty of teams that have drafted qb’s while having a franchise guy already. Is that always a mistake?
RE: RE: The Go Terps method of team building  
Go Terps : 4/26/2024 6:12 pm : link
In comment 16492602 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16492576 RomanWH said:


Quote:


includes taking swings at the QB position every couple of years. No scholarships. Nothing is given. Get guys in the building and have an open competition. If whomever doesn't show like they are elite by year 2, time to move on.



LOL. And that method rarely works. Who are these teams that take frequent swings at the QB position without scholarships?

You win by getting franchise QB's, but they can be had in a variety of ways and with teams doing poorly or well. The key is that it is really damn hard to tell who the franchise guys are. Go Terps method is no better than others. Just because he bombards people saying it is right doesn't make it true. All it does is make him sound like George Costanza.

He talks incessantly about moving past mistakes quickly like Haskins, Rosen or soon to be Willis. How's that working out for Wash, Arizona and Tenn?


Wash - Jayden Daniels
Arizona - Kyler Murray
Tennessee - Will Levis
NYG - Daniel Jones

That's how it's working out.
RE: Yep this is right on  
bw in dc : 4/26/2024 6:17 pm : link
In comment 16492590 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
The criteria that many fans, and perhaps the Giants decision makers, have will result in a QB for life situation.



We certainly have a history of giving lottery QBs a ton of runway to succeed. It seems to convey from one regime to the next. Hell, even Dave Brown, a supplemental pick, got six years.

I've said it before that you have to give Mara credit for finally getting out of the box and hiring a GM that wasn't baptized in the Giants Way. But it looks to me like he found a GM that is very closely aligned with his view of the QB position, especially re: Jones.
RE: RE: The Go Terps method of team building  
Now Mike in MD : 4/26/2024 6:24 pm : link
In comment 16492602 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 16492576 RomanWH said:


Quote:


includes taking swings at the QB position every couple of years. No scholarships. Nothing is given. Get guys in the building and have an open competition. If whomever doesn't show like they are elite by year 2, time to move on.



LOL. And that method rarely works. Who are these teams that take frequent swings at the QB position without scholarships?

You win by getting franchise QB's, but they can be had in a variety of ways and with teams doing poorly or well. The key is that it is really damn hard to tell who the franchise guys are. Go Terps method is no better than others. Just because he bombards people saying it is right doesn't make it true. All it does is make him sound like George Costanza.

He talks incessantly about moving past mistakes quickly like Haskins, Rosen or soon to be Willis. How's that working out for Wash, Arizona and Tenn?


Agreed, there is literally not a single NFL franchise that has done this. Now, you could make an argument that you should take a swin on a mid round project, but if you drafts QBs in the 1st and 2nd round constantly, the rest of your team is bereft of talent and you're hamstrung.
Are  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2024 6:25 pm : link
we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?

RE: RE: RE: The Go Terps method of team building  
Now Mike in MD : 4/26/2024 6:26 pm : link
In comment 16492617 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16492602 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 16492576 RomanWH said:


Quote:


includes taking swings at the QB position every couple of years. No scholarships. Nothing is given. Get guys in the building and have an open competition. If whomever doesn't show like they are elite by year 2, time to move on.



LOL. And that method rarely works. Who are these teams that take frequent swings at the QB position without scholarships?

You win by getting franchise QB's, but they can be had in a variety of ways and with teams doing poorly or well. The key is that it is really damn hard to tell who the franchise guys are. Go Terps method is no better than others. Just because he bombards people saying it is right doesn't make it true. All it does is make him sound like George Costanza.

He talks incessantly about moving past mistakes quickly like Haskins, Rosen or soon to be Willis. How's that working out for Wash, Arizona and Tenn?



Wash - Jayden Daniels
Arizona - Kyler Murray
Tennessee - Will Levis
NYG - Daniel Jones

That's how it's working out.


What exactly ahs will levis done? Murray is a guy who I bet if the Cardinals had not signed to a huge contract would have been looking to replace. Daniels may be great, but the Commanders have been a disaster at QB for decades.

Sooooo, not great examples
RE: …  
Amtoft : 4/26/2024 6:26 pm : link
In comment 16492555 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
This site has gone insane.

Joe all but offered his first born to move up to 3 to take Drake. Pats said no.

Giants didn’t view JJM as worthy of 6th pick. They might be right, they might be wrong. TBD.


Exactly this... Almost every year you can trade up top 3... the one draft we want too the option wasn't even available. That is NY Giants luck right there. Next year everyone in the top 3 will trade!
RE: Are  
Jerry in_DC : 4/26/2024 6:27 pm : link
In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?


Yes. But in much smaller volume. people are going to be massively checked out on the Giants this year.
Try being original  
jvm52106 : 4/26/2024 6:51 pm : link
... Dear god stop the madness..

Let's focus on the rest of the draft..
RE: Are  
DeVito32 : 4/26/2024 6:58 pm : link
In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?


Eric, can you make a QB forum just for all the QB posts? I didn’t think it could get worse than the past few months. But in just the last 24hrs… every day for the next 365 days is going to be worse.
RE: Are  
Go Terps : 4/26/2024 6:59 pm : link
In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?


There's not much else substantive to talk about with this team.

They're just spinning their wheels.
These will be the threads Eric  
BigBlueCane : 4/26/2024 7:02 pm : link
b/c there's no hope for this team now.

at least until we get the camp reports pumping sunshine. Then the regular season beatdowns commence.
The Giants have drafted two 1st rd QBs in my lifetime  
Sean : 4/26/2024 7:03 pm : link
Go Terps said it best, NYG QB is a senate position. When you require full bloom love, that's what happens. At least Simms & Manning met the task.
RE: Are  
LW_Giants : 4/26/2024 7:04 pm : link
In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?


There’s not a whole lot else to talk or be excited about with this team at the moment. But don’t worry, I’ll lose interest shortly.
If people..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/26/2024 7:07 pm : link
can't get excited about Nabers, that's on them.

A lot of people make it sound like replacing Jones is the only thing to make the team better. That's on them too.
RE: RE: Are  
UConn4523 : 4/26/2024 7:08 pm : link
In comment 16492793 LW_Giants said:
Quote:
In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?




There’s not a whole lot else to talk or be excited about with this team at the moment. But don’t worry, I’ll lose interest shortly.


Sure there is, you just don’t want to admit the other areas we have addressed that can be game changers. And that’s coming from someone who really wanted to draft a QB as well.

Moping around BBI all day gets boring after a while, no?
RE: Are  
g56blue10 : 4/26/2024 7:09 pm : link
In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?


Yep.. it’s just a continuation of the last 2 years
RE: RE: Are  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2024 7:09 pm : link
In comment 16492793 LW_Giants said:
Quote:
In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?




There’s not a whole lot else to talk or be excited about with this team at the moment. But don’t worry, I’ll lose interest shortly.


That's not the threat you think it is.
Try being original  
jvm52106 : 4/26/2024 7:11 pm : link
... Dear god stop the madness..

Let's focus on the rest of the draft..
RE: RE: RE: Are  
LW_Giants : 4/26/2024 7:12 pm : link
In comment 16492817 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16492793 LW_Giants said:


Quote:


In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?




There’s not a whole lot else to talk or be excited about with this team at the moment. But don’t worry, I’ll lose interest shortly.



That's not the threat you think it is.


Not sure why the nastiness is necessary but w/e
RE: If people..  
Go Terps : 4/26/2024 7:13 pm : link
In comment 16492811 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
can't get excited about Nabers, that's on them.

A lot of people make it sound like replacing Jones is the only thing to make the team better. That's on them too.


I remember reading that word for word on Kadarius Toney. "If you can't get excited..."

Look man how many times do we have to let these guys kick our dicks in before we're at least allowed to be critical? I know we're supposed to be positive even if they draft an inanimate carbon rod or sign it to a $160M contract, but when is it ok to call them out?

(I asked this same question back in 2018 and it wasn't ok then either, so we know the number is at least six years before you're allowed to be critical.)
LW_Giants  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2024 7:15 pm : link
Not specifically directed at you, but this anti-Jones hate is getting as annoying as the DJFC.

Jesus, you two sides need to give it a rest.
We're just following your lead, Eric  
Go Terps : 4/26/2024 7:20 pm : link
Quote:
Quarterback

If a team does not have a top-six quarterback in its conference, it is virtually impossible for that team to be a consistent playoff and Super Bowl contender. Regardless of the reasons, the Daniel Jones era was a failure. But it’s not clear if the franchise has come to terms with that reality.


👍
Link - ( New Window )
Eric, I honestly wanted this thread  
LW_Giants : 4/26/2024 7:21 pm : link
To be more of a philosophical discussion about how to value qb’s in the draft, not specifically about Daniel. I had seen some discussion about positional value in other threads so thought it was worth teeing up. Clearly not what the discussion became, that’s on me.

When the season starts, I’ll root like hell for DJ—I love a good comeback story. And hopefully nabers has the same effect on him Hill had for Tua
I was excited about Barkley  
santacruzom : 4/26/2024 7:22 pm : link
Said the same thing back then: "How can you not be excited to have Saquon Barkley on this team?"

I learned how.
Go Terps  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/26/2024 7:23 pm : link
But you don't see me starting thread after thread about doom-and-gloom.

Draft is like Christmas and you guys are throwing a tantrum knocking over the tree and smashing the ornaments.

100 threads are fine. But when you reach 1,000, it gets old.
RE: Go Terps  
Go Terps : 4/26/2024 7:24 pm : link
In comment 16492872 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
But you don't see me starting thread after thread about doom-and-gloom.

Draft is like Christmas and you guys are throwing a tantrum knocking over the tree and smashing the ornaments.

100 threads are fine. But when you reach 1,000, it gets old.


I haven't started a thread in years.
To answer your original question  
Darwinian : 4/26/2024 7:30 pm : link
I do NOT believe the best way to approach QB is to be full bloom in love. It is nice to be full bloom in love, but too many think it is a requirement.

It is more important to cycle through QBs until you land either a great talent or a great fit for your HC/OC/system.

Were the 49ers in full bloom love with Purdy? Well now they have a guy who took them to the Super Bowl. Coaches have to willing to take chances and challenge QBs who may not be ideal. There is always a probability it will work out. And work out - big. Our problem is we are repeating something we KNOW doesn't work. Jones has a bad ceiling. But Penix, for instance, has an elite ceiling.

Penix is more valuable to the Giants than Nabers.

A paragraph..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/26/2024 7:38 pm : link
about fitting a system by recommending a lefthanded QB who is protected by Neal!

Yeah - Penix has more value than Nabers!

And the Niners are a perfect example of one who built a team so the QB didn't have to be elite. They could crap out on trading a bunch of high picks for a failed QB and a 7th rounder is good enough to take them to the SB. That's in direct opposition to what you are saying.
RE: Are  
Johnny5 : 4/26/2024 7:52 pm : link
In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?

I would have to say, most likely, yes.
Its not important to have conviction or be in love  
HardTruth : 4/26/2024 7:53 pm : link
With a QB you sign to a 4/160 million deal though

Only for a QB you draft
RE: RE: Go Terps  
Johnny5 : 4/26/2024 7:54 pm : link
In comment 16492877 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16492872 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


But you don't see me starting thread after thread about doom-and-gloom.

Draft is like Christmas and you guys are throwing a tantrum knocking over the tree and smashing the ornaments.

100 threads are fine. But when you reach 1,000, it gets old.



I haven't started a thread in years.

But you post on every single one regarding QBs to complain about pretty much every QB except who you happen to like.
RE: A paragraph..  
Darwinian : 4/26/2024 8:06 pm : link
In comment 16492957 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
about fitting a system by recommending a lefthanded QB who is protected by Neal!

Yeah - Penix has more value than Nabers!

And the Niners are a perfect example of one who built a team so the QB didn't have to be elite. They could crap out on trading a bunch of high picks for a failed QB and a 7th rounder is good enough to take them to the SB. That's in direct opposition to what you are saying.


So you're theory is that you must select a QB based on your right tackle. Not whether he's great or not. Interesting. I guess it's not possible to replace Neal if he doesn't do the job.
Of course..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/26/2024 8:31 pm : link
Neal can be replaced. But why not play to the strengths of Thomas as well as not taking an older player. Nabers is nearly 4 years younger and he's dynamic.

Penix doesn't fit the system so why pigeonhole him? Talk about cycling through QB's while the rest of the team stays talent poor
RE: RE: Are  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/26/2024 8:58 pm : link
In comment 16492667 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 16492657 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


we going to keep having these threads for the next 12 months?




Yes. But in much smaller volume. people are going to be massively checked out on the Giants this year.


If it means less morons here then good.
There is other  
Giantsbigblue : 4/26/2024 9:46 pm : link
Issues on the team besides QB. WR was the biggest in my opinion. There is just a lot to talk about besides QB.
Nothing will reduce the level of morons on BBI  
Mike from Ohio : 4/26/2024 10:21 pm : link
All the changing record does is change which morons are posting the most.
Look I wanted a new QB as much as anyone  
56goat : 4/27/2024 7:23 am : link
but it ain't happening this year (maybe a Powerball ticket in a late round). We got what we got, move on.
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