What are your key indicators Giants are trending right way?

are not.

But the most glaring hole in this roster when Schoen and Daboll got here is still a glaring hole. It also happens to be at the most important position on the team.

The angry mob will scream about complaining about a QB, but what team in the NFL right now would you say is trending the right way without a QB?

In comment 16495252 Mr. Nickels said:

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are not.

And you are basing that on what?

their record

Not until we get a real QB.

not are we there yet...

Simple.

They need the OL to play much better and then every other unit will look a lot better most notably the defense and the receivers.

I don’t think we can tell anything until we see the line for a few games. If they do look much improved all these other guys will have time to shine. If they don’t any indicators of a better trend isn’t going to help.

not the draft I can tell you that.

I read Evan Neal was the RT for the next decade two years ago.

Everyone is a potential pro-bowler until they have to play.

The best thing IMO the Giants did this off-season is Burns and half the site hates that move because they traded a 2nd round pick to get him (before extending him).

But, they won in 2022 including a road playoff game. Everyone thought they were heading in the right direction then.

Gettleman gutted the roster as well. Roster turnover in the NFL is insane to begin with, bring in a new GM and the entire team basically turns over in 3 years.

Sammo85 has made a lot of good points on this, including during last season. The Giants have had plenty of young players the last 5-6 years who either showed promise and plateau'd or never got going.

I see no key indicators, I have no believe they are trending the right way. I care about the product put on the field, last year it was status quo mediocre.

I'll keep harping on this; Bricillo will end up making or breaking at least Daboll's tenure here. I like the hire. They can't roll out the same dismal OL in year 3. If the OL is bad again the wheels will fall off again.

2022: 1-5-1
2023: 3-3

I was encouraged that they let Barkley & McKinney walk. Burns hopefully is an impact rusher.

They'll need to figure out QB and that'll be a very tough task.

Which may happen more than most here expect. We manufactured wins in 2022 with HORRIBLE WR play and talent. We have much better talent at WR and hopefully better play on the Oline. Our QB's need to hit about 22/25 TD passes and we could see 8-10 wins...

Under Schoen and team. However, in today’s NFL you are effectively trending neutral or down until you find a top 10 qb. It is extremely difficult to replicate the current 49ers, 2017 eagles, or 2002 Bucs where anyone under center will suffice because the team has no holes. NFL free agency typically guts those teams unless you hit on multiple rounds of the draft every year.

There’s a reason why an otherwise above average Chiefs team went back to back and why some of the same teams are in the playoffs year after year.

Terps is dead on when he says you keep taking swings to upgrade the most important position in the game.

Right now until the Giants solve the qb position at best I’d say trending neutral.

In comment 16495306 Sean said:

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But, they won in 2022 including a road playoff game. Everyone thought they were heading in the right direction then.

Not everyone. I warned about it after the Eagles blowout to tread carefully. Even the regime made the mistake.

In comment 16495300 pjcas18 said:

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not the draft I can tell you that. I read Evan Neal was the RT for the next decade two years ago. Everyone is a potential pro-bowler until they have to play. The best thing IMO the Giants did this off-season is Burns and half the site hates that move because they traded a 2nd round pick to get him (before extending him).

This. I have read people on here already putting in Nabers as all pro. You never know with the draft.

Schoen needs to prove he can draft well. Let’s see.

They didn't get QB solved, but it would've been ideal if they had (at least they tried this time). The 2018 Giants had a bunch of good players that looked like building blocks too (Odell, Landon, Saquon), but they were a team that was one year away from starting a rebuild and QB reset. Barring a miracle at QB this year, that's where the Giants will probably be next year.

Don't forget that the days of being able to count on beating up WAS twice a year are probably over.

is that there is little the receiver can do to make the offense better if he's getting open but a catchable ball isn't thrown to him. The offensive line has to give the quarterback time to throw and the QB has to deliver a catchable ball to the right receiver.

The WR can be running great routes and beating his man, but it doesn't matter without a decent pass to him.

I was also let down by a safety with pick 47. They said when they let McKinney walk that it was a low-priority position compared to a pass-rusher, and I agree with that. But why then use #47 on a low priority position?

The team actually has a lot of talent on defense, and I think that if they added that pass-rushing DT that Eric was talking about drafting, they would have a top half or even a top 10 defense. But they didn't take a shot at that. Maybe they just thought the value was not there.

Rarely are nfl rosters plug and play.

I don’t know if that’s really debatable. But are they headed in the right direction? Unknown.

.

Until jones is gone and we give it a go with someone new.

We have made some good, some bad moves. 500 is an improvement from where we started. But I see the most likely outcome of this process to be a few years in the 7-10 win range before this group ages out. Between the lack of a QB and some moves that prioritize win now, it's hard to see much of a ceiling here.

I think we're tracking to be a team like the Saints, Raiders, or Steelers. Those teams don't suck. They have some legit really good players. They just don't have a ceiling.

In comment 16495423 The_Boss said:

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Until jones is gone and we give it a go with someone new.

True….but until that happens they need to maximize the draft capital they have to improve the roster

For one last season [grin]

I think a fair comp for this current QB era is the mid to late 90s. How did they get out of it? They signed Kerry Collins and he gave the team a solid bridge. Super Bowl appearance and a wildcard appearance. Once they were in position to bring in Eli, they pounced.

I think this is where this is headed. I'm not sure who. I find it the most likely outcome right now.

.

now and the talent on the Giants current roster, I don't think the Kerry Collins phase will be duplicated.

I think we will go directly to Kurt Warner/Eli as soon as the Giants can realistically exit the Jones era.

could start scoring at an NFL average rate and not give up historic amounts of sacks I'd take that as a sign. But remains to be seen if the new additions are significant upgrades or same old same old.

In comment 16495470 pjcas18 said:

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now and the talent on the Giants current roster, I don't think the Kerry Collins phase will be duplicated. I think we will go directly to Kurt Warner/Eli as soon as the Giants can realistically exit the Jones era.

That's true. The QB market now doesn't really allow it.

have to mention the NYG great destruction of the LoS (over a decade and ongoing). Defensive side is getting closer but the OL has a lot of work to get to the necessary standard.

WR's look strong. RB's are light. Added a bunch of TE's (We'll see). Young secondary that hopefully develops.

I thought McCarthy was the move but Jones will have to be better as will the players around him and the coaching. Be nice to see them have a strong running game with the RB's to start. HC needs a big year to show he should stay.

In comment 16495452 Sean said:

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I think a fair comp for this current QB era is the mid to late 90s. How did they get out of it? They signed Kerry Collins and he gave the team a solid bridge. Super Bowl appearance and a wildcard appearance. Once they were in position to bring in Eli, they pounced. I think this is where this is headed. I'm not sure who. I find it the most likely outcome right now.

I agree with this. The analogies with 1997 and 1998 are there. And Fassel really should have got the win in the Vikings playoff game in 97. It was a freaky loss. A win makes with a step backward in 98 makes the analogy even stronger.

I’ll give them partial credit for the Eagles game in Week 18.

Cowboys have been embarrassing us for years.

1. New possibly high-level OL coach (#1 and not close)
2. Added elite young Edge in Burns
3. Added most explosive dynamic WR1 in draft. Potential Chase/ OBJ level impact 1st year .
4. Team speed transformation at many skill positions..
5. Pass pro focused additions on OL (Runyan), Eluemenor as an OG.
6. Multiple quality KR/PR options
7. Giants post draft additions (a veteran CB, DT?)

Biggest Unknowns:
1. Bowen as a DC (this is a big one)
2. Ghobriel as an ST

In comment 16495307 GiantGrit said:

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. I care about the product put on the field, last year it was status quo mediocre.

Mediocre? Very generous appraisal. The giants straight up sucked last year!

In comment 16495452 Sean said:

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I think a fair comp for this current QB era is the mid to late 90s. How did they get out of it? They signed Kerry Collins and he gave the team a solid bridge. Super Bowl appearance and a wildcard appearance. Once they were in position to bring in Eli, they pounced. I think this is where this is headed. I'm not sure who. I find it the most likely outcome right now.

I think it's just over 50/50 Jones is the starter in 2025. And I think it's only that low because of his neck.

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I think a fair comp for this current QB era is the mid to late 90s. How did they get out of it? They signed Kerry Collins and he gave the team a solid bridge. Super Bowl appearance and a wildcard appearance. Once they were in position to bring in Eli, they pounced. I think this is where this is headed. I'm not sure who. I find it the most likely outcome right now. I think it's just over 50/50 Jones is the starter in 2025. And I think it's only that low because of his neck.

The odds of them having a shot at three prospects as good as Penix, McCarthy, and Nix next year are low. Like Nabers this year there will probably be players at other positions with higher grades.

If they didn't "force the QB pick" (what a load of BS) this year, why would they next year?

I don’t see much of an improvement this season. I see another 6 win season. I think the draft picks are good. I didn’t see any real reaches. However, we really just replaced some holes from free agency. We lost McKinney. We lost Saquon. We added journeymen level talent to the o-line but no significant draft picks there. No big guard signing.

I see a team with a bottom 5 QB room in the NFL and a mediocre at best o-line. What really makes things difficult is the starting QB has a 47.5 million dollar cap hit. Even teams with very good QBs that are no longer on the rookie contract struggle with cap management. We constantly hear about the necessity to try and win during the rookie contract period.. I don’t see from a logical and historical perspective how a team with a below average QB paid 47.5 million can really compete in today’s NFL.

I am not saying everyone should be fired or any grand dramatic exclamations. Howver, i think expectations for this year should not be high. As a fan base i wonder what the reaction will be with another poor record.

Not spending big on Barkley, sign Singletary and drafting a dominant WR.

Schoen 1st round positions:

DE, OT, CB, WR. Tried to get the QB.

This is how you build a modern NFL team.

What value other franchises place on former Giant players. Both as pricey FAs like McKinney or fringe roster guys that don't have jobs after the Giants cut them. Take a look at the 2019 Giants roster sometime. There's a lot of suck on there.

Wayne Gallman?
Alex Tanney?
Pio?

Moving on from the DG era meant shedding many years of collecting fringe talent. That was reflected in the W-L record. Schoen had his work cut out for him. He needed to come in and revamp a roster of crap with hardly any cap space. The roster needed to be turned off nearly completely. Once we get to the point where our players are valuable to other teams, then we know we're trending the right way.

In comment 16495283 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Not until we get a real QB.

Come on man, give up the Jones hate, he is a top tier qb and will lead the Giants to 10 wins!

In comment 16495625 Go Terps said:

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The odds of them having a shot at three prospects as good as Penix, McCarthy, and Nix next year are low. Like Nabers this year there will probably be players at other positions with higher grades. If they didn't "force the QB pick" (what a load of BS) this year, why would they next year?

Until Schoen comes up with some way to address the QB position with something other than “we believe in Daniel,” this teams is treading water with the hope to sneak into the playoffs when the schedule is favorable.

In comment 16495300 pjcas18 said:

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not the draft I can tell you that. I read Evan Neal was the RT for the next decade two years ago. Everyone is a potential pro-bowler until they have to play. The best thing IMO the Giants did this off-season is Burns and half the site hates that move because they traded a 2nd round pick to get him (before extending him).

Bingo. Most CERTAINLY not the draft if we've learned anything over the years. Holy crap, I'm tired of watching our draft picks flop in no time so damn often.

they don't have a plan until proven otherwise.

But obviously Schoen did not so I have to defer to the professional. If Schoen thinks we are better off rolling with Jones by building around him then I’m on board. Jones will never be a top 10 QB but you don’t necessarily have to have a top 10 QB to win in this league. Jones may be able to do what needs to be done with the players around him. We had so many holes on this roster and the FO has done everything it can to shore them up this off season. As always, I’m optimistic about the upcoming season.

In comment 16495543 Stars_and_stripes said:

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1. New possibly high-level OL coach (#1 and not close) 2. Added elite young Edge in Burns 3. Added most explosive dynamic WR1 in draft. Potential Chase/ OBJ level impact 1st year . 4. Team speed transformation at many skill positions.. 5. Pass pro focused additions on OL (Runyan), Eluemenor as an OG. 6. Multiple quality KR/PR options 7. Giants post draft additions (a veteran CB, DT?) Biggest Unknowns: 1. Bowen as a DC (this is a big one) 2. Ghobriel as an ST

Those are your biggest unknowns!?
The biggest unknown is when they will finally stop the madness and find a competent QB.

In comment 16495722 Jack Stroud said:

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In comment 16495283 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: Not until we get a real QB. Come on man, give up the Jones hate, he is a top tier qb and will lead the Giants to 10 wins!

If he’s top tier, why only 10?

In comment 16495261 Mike from Ohio said:

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But the most glaring hole in this roster when Schoen and Daboll got here is still a glaring hole. It also happens to be at the most important position on the team. The angry mob will scream about complaining about a QB, but what team in the NFL right now would you say is trending the right way without a QB?

This! I am in complete agreement.

The Giants were willing to trade a lot to move up to 3 to get draft Drake Maye, but were unwilling to sit at 6 and draft one of three QBs that went in the next 6 picks.

That belies an approach to drafting QBs based on myopia and full bloom love. Drake Maye is not several draft picks better a prospect than the other three QBs, two of which were taken by quality QB evaluators.

This is a similar approach to QB that was taken when Eli was drafted; he was not as a prospect several draft picks better than Rivers or Roethlisberger.

I'm as convinced as I've ever been that franchise QB is an ownership call; and their modus operandi is full bloom love.