...he was brought here to do, which is to identify and mold a QB into a stud?
After all, that is Daboll's alleged super power. And we keep forcing him to work with a QB he obviously thinks is inadequate.
I am envious of Minnesota. They got their QB whisperer in KOC and they moved on from Cousins and gave him a QB to mold.
It will be an epic missed opportunity if we don't get to see Daboll with a high-ceiling QB in a high octane vertical offense.
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Wants to do is get a new coach. Inless he as said above completely loses the teams respect where would he go.
Not for nothing - our fanbase sucks. Guys wins coach of the year in year 1 and now all this chatter about him in the hot seat is absolutely absurd given the circumstances of last season.
BD should be on the hot seat. The team did not appear to be ready to play at the start of last season, juggling OL positions all preseason didn't help get the OL set and build cohesion, having no legitimate kick returner on the team at the start, not even letting Cutlets throw the ball in the Jets game, temper tantrums on the sideline, etc etc etc.
I guess you see what you want to see...etc, etc, etc...
If they win 4-7, as most think we will, he'll get another year.
Remember, Mara didn't even want to fire Judge, but the public spectacle it became forced Tisch to push for his ouster.
If the Giants start something like 3-7 and Jones is playing poorly, Daboll and Schoen are going to be in cross hairs the extent to which they've never experienced.
Too hard to type Kevin O'Connell.....like KOC is his nickname that 50 million know...
If the Giants start something like 3-7 and Jones is playing poorly, Daboll and Schoen are going to be in cross hairs the extent to which they've never experienced.
I think this is already built into the equation. I have a hard time believing Schoen hasn't already explained to Mara the situation they are in. They didn't try to get Drake Maye because they have warm and fuzzies with Jones. They are just stuck with him because of the contract and there is no one to replace him.
I had one in like 2007 called chunkysoupblows and got kicked off for putting a post something along the lines if like Giants game is on in 30 minutes FYI in a very eric from bbi type format
I think he thought I was mocking him but was just super excited for a game or something and made a worthless thread on it.
I attribute getting Diggs to Allens success as much as Daboll if not more.
Last year I lost faith with the play calling but the team did not quit which is a good thing!
Get a better HC committed to building a running game like SF, Detroit, Rams, etc. with mostly the running backs. I don't like Daboll's gimmicky running system he learned at Bama that is overly reliant on the QB for rushing production at the NFL level.
Will he adjust? Perhaps, but I would be surprised.
-Invest heavily in the OL through free agency
-Trade a top 40 draft pick for Brian Burns and sign him long term
-Draft a legitimate WR1
-Plug needs throughout the draft
I think Daboll needs to have the team be competitive. The threshold feels like what Wellington Mara used to say - the last game of the season needs to at least mean something. When Schoen preaches patience I don't think that means he expects to go 6-11 again.
I think it'll require a lot to fire Schoen, like QB, GM is a long term position with NYG. He's young too. Get comfortable with him. A big reason Reese was fired is because he challenged Eli. And Reese got plenty of chances to right the ship from 2013 onward.
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I like him as a coach, but it will get ugly here if KOC develops JJM into a franchise QB. I'm fine with the decision, Daboll must not have thought he could fix the big issue JJM had with his throwing motion, touch and accuracy on deep throws. We will see if he was right.
Daboll didn’t decide anything. He doesn’t have dictatorial power in the draft room. He has one voice, and a big one to be sure. But he doesn’t get final say.
Agree that this wasn't Daboll's decision. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll liked JJ very much.
Here's my theory;
The Giants spent a lot of time on JJ. JJ himself noted that he Giants spent more time with him than any other team. I don't buy the conspiracy nonsense that they were just blowing smoke. I'm figuring there were one of two issues that occurred.
1) Schoen & Daboll could not come to an agreement as to whether JJ was worth the pick at 1.06. They spent a ton of time with him to try reach such an agreement. I think one liked him at 6 and the other didn't. Since Schoen makes the final call, I'd say Daboll liked him and Schoen did not.
2) They may both have liked JJ but they didn't love him - or at least they were not full bloom in love with him thus they passed. I hope this is not the case. If Schoen is waiting for the stars to fully align on a QB, Jones will be negotiating his next extension with the team in a couple of years.
It's like the great QB whisperer Mick Jagger once said;
You can't always get what you want - (Drake Maye)
but if you try sometime, you just might find
you get what you need - (JJ McCarthy)
McCarthy maybe didn't warrant sacrificing premium draft picks in the event they had to move up to get him. However, to have him sitting there for you and passing - not a great move. McCarthy at a non-premium price tag wouldn't have to be great to be the correct pick. If he simply played at an above average level - say a QB that ranked among the best 10 or 12 QBs in the league, he would have a much more positive impact on the Giants future than any WR.
I don't think that's a buffer from either being fired. The whole situation will become untenable if the 2024 season goes off the rails
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In comment 16497331 BleedBlue46 said:
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I like him as a coach, but it will get ugly here if KOC develops JJM into a franchise QB. I'm fine with the decision, Daboll must not have thought he could fix the big issue JJM had with his throwing motion, touch and accuracy on deep throws. We will see if he was right.
Daboll didn’t decide anything. He doesn’t have dictatorial power in the draft room. He has one voice, and a big one to be sure. But he doesn’t get final say.
Agree that this wasn't Daboll's decision. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll liked JJ very much.
Here's my theory;
The Giants spent a lot of time on JJ. JJ himself noted that he Giants spent more time with him than any other team. I don't buy the conspiracy nonsense that they were just blowing smoke. I'm figuring there were one of two issues that occurred.
1) Schoen & Daboll could not come to an agreement as to whether JJ was worth the pick at 1.06. They spent a ton of time with him to try reach such an agreement. I think one liked him at 6 and the other didn't. Since Schoen makes the final call, I'd say Daboll liked him and Schoen did not.
2) They may both have liked JJ but they didn't love him - or at least they were not full bloom in love with him thus they passed. I hope this is not the case. If Schoen is waiting for the stars to fully align on a QB, Jones will be negotiating his next extension with the team in a couple of years.
It's like the great QB whisperer Mick Jagger once said;
You can't always get what you want - (Drake Maye)
but if you try sometime, you just might find
you get what you need - (JJ McCarthy)
McCarthy maybe didn't warrant sacrificing premium draft picks in the event they had to move up to get him. However, to have him sitting there for you and passing - not a great move. McCarthy at a non-premium price tag wouldn't have to be great to be the correct pick. If he simply played at an above average level - say a QB that ranked among the best 10 or 12 QBs in the league, he would have a much more positive impact on the Giants future than any WR.
I could see this. Daboll seemed displeased in the Thursday night press conference and the entire weekend tbh.
Why? Do the yards and touchdowns count less?
2022 did happen. And if you believe Jones stinks (most of the board does) does that kinda prove Daboll can coach QBs? Does DeVito win a game for the Jets? It sucks Daboll hasn’t been able to coach a rookie for a few years.
This part Lock and Jones both have talent to work with. An improved OL and a legit WR corp to boot. Daboll needs live up to the hype as well on that front. The team has not quit on him so he has a chance.
I agree. I worry if Jones misses another chunk of time and Lock plays, that will happen.
I like daboll. I think as long as he runs a professional operation this year and coaches well he will be retained even if they have a bad record.
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they implode and only win 3 or 4 games
I agree. I worry if Jones misses another chunk of time and Lock plays, that will happen.
Lock is better than jones
Lock is better than jones
I'm the founding member of the Anyone But Jones Club, but Lock is an erratic mess. The only reason Jones has a better chance to succeed is his run game. Lock is a marked downgrade from Taylor.
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I agree. I worry if Jones misses another chunk of time and Lock plays, that will happen.
Lock is better than jones
I'm the founding member of the Anyone But Jones Club, but Lock is an erratic mess. The only reason Jones has a better chance to succeed is his run game. Lock is a marked downgrade from Taylor.
Well yes if you ignore TT throwing 10% of his pass 2 to 3 yards short of his WRs(not an exaggeration) and underthrowing open WRs deep.
I like TT, but he was not at all good at throwing the ball.
I like daboll. I think as long as he runs a professional operation this year and coaches well he will be retained even if they have a bad record.
+1. Which he seems to be doing. I know many will likely disagree, but the Giants are on the right path. It's going to take another year to see the complete results on the field, I think.
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I don't like Daboll's gimmicky running system he learned at Bama that is overly reliant on the QB for rushing production at the NFL level.
Why? Do the yards and touchdowns count less?
Mustn't like Reid and Mahomes either - speaking of gimmicky and QB running...
Well yes if you ignore TT throwing 10% of his pass 2 to 3 yards short of his WRs(not an exaggeration) and underthrowing open WRs deep.
I like TT, but he was not at all good at throwing the ball.
Then you are going to hate Drew Lock. In 2020 when he had his only real action he led the league in poor throws/was bottom of the league in accurate throws, and had the worst completion percentage in the league.
There is no better description of Lock. He's an erratic mess.
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In comment 16497521 UConn4523 said:
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they implode and only win 3 or 4 games
I agree. I worry if Jones misses another chunk of time and Lock plays, that will happen.
Lock is better than jones
That’s just speculation, Lock hasn’t come close to 2022 Jones. Lock is probably better than 2023 Jones, however.
Get a better HC committed to building a running game like SF, Detroit, Rams, etc. with mostly the running backs. I don't like Daboll's gimmicky running system he learned at Bama that is overly reliant on the QB for rushing production at the NFL level.
Will he adjust? Perhaps, but I would be surprised.
Daboll hasn’t proven to be a QB whisperer. He was successful with 1 QB who he may or may not have developed. Shurmur was a QB whisperer, just not a very good HC.
I am still hopeful that Jones can develop into a competent game manager even if he isn’t a franchise QB. I would have had no problem picking any of the 6 QBs this year and to see what happens. And I don’t have any problem if Jones doesn’t develop with Nabers, a revamped o-line and an upgraded defense, so we move to Lock for the rest of the year.Daboll is ALMOST blameless in this whole mess but if he can’t get this football team to get more than 6 wins again, he should be gone too.
We'll probably be something like 4-7 and looking pretty bad. Do we finish 5-12, vs. win a few and get to 7-10 (and not being mathematically eliminated even though the season is long over).
And yes it would be rough to see him go without ever working with a real QB. But we are a dumb organization with abysmal leadership. So it would not be suprising.
QB or not QB.... That's on the coaches.
This is a 3 or 4 win level roster without imploding. They might win more than that because of how the NFL (Pats shanking a gimme winning FG) is but that is how bereft of talent this roster still is until proven otherwise.
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they implode and only win 3 or 4 games
This is a 3 or 4 win level roster without imploding. They might win more than that because of how the NFL (Pats shanking a gimme winning FG) is but that is how bereft of talent this roster still is until proven otherwise.
We have more talent than last year, why didn’t we only win 3 or 4? And if Jones is healthy he gives us a better chance to win each week than Taylor or DeVito.
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In comment 16497521 UConn4523 said:
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they implode and only win 3 or 4 games
This is a 3 or 4 win level roster without imploding. They might win more than that because of how the NFL (Pats shanking a gimme winning FG) is but that is how bereft of talent this roster still is until proven otherwise.
We have more talent than last year, why didn’t we only win 3 or 4? And if Jones is healthy he gives us a better chance to win each week than Taylor or DeVito.
Like I said, things go other either way in the NFL. Pats shanked a game-winning FG. Tyrod messed up two goal-line opportunities against the Bills. Looking at the opponents for 2024 the only one you can argue that the Giants are better on paper is the Panthers and I don't even know about that.
Nabers and Burns are better talent but they haven't played a down for the Giants yet, and then your banking on the progress of a lot of young players. Also, both Taylor and Devito outplayed Jones last season.
This is a bad, bad team still and a couple more years of needed talent infusion including having an NFL starting caliber QB.
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"QB whisperer" if you need Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen to get production from the QB?
2022 did happen. And if you believe Jones stinks (most of the board does) does that kinda prove Daboll can coach QBs? Does DeVito win a game for the Jets? It sucks Daboll hasn’t been able to coach a rookie for a few years.
What it proves is that someone in the Giant organization is grossly reckless. If all it took was for one OL to get hurt for the entire OL to wind up being so historically bad that you expose an oft-injured QB then someone might have to pay for such recklessness.
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I'm the founding member of the Anyone But Jones Club, but Lock is an erratic mess. The only reason Jones has a better chance to succeed is his run game. Lock is a marked downgrade from Taylor.
Well yes if you ignore TT throwing 10% of his pass 2 to 3 yards short of his WRs(not an exaggeration) and underthrowing open WRs deep.
I like TT, but he was not at all good at throwing the ball.
Then you are going to hate Drew Lock. In 2020 when he had his only real action he led the league in poor throws/was bottom of the league in accurate throws, and had the worst completion percentage in the league.
There is no better description of Lock. He's an erratic mess.
Ha - will fit right in!
It's a fair point. Allen is immensely talented and that's a huge advantage for any coach.
But Allen needed people to help trim the fat off his game. And he gives Daboll a lot of credit for that.
Bona fide "QB whisperers" are guys like Reid, Parcells, Walsh.
On the flipside
1-- The OL while might not be "historically bad" but just "bad." So you are confident Jones (or lock) will have little problem playing behind a bad OL instead of last year it being historically bad?
2-- If the OL isn't "good" (mediocre might not good enough. The idea in games is to not to strive to be mediocre.) then teams will key on Nabors - vs eh past they keyed on Barkley.
3--- Joens has suffered an injury to his legs. Hsi legs. And Jones is injury prone. We can’t pretend like these things don’t matter.
Schoen is much bigger problem. He has more power and his team building skills look below par right now.
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In comment 16497696 darren in pdx said:
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In comment 16497521 UConn4523 said:
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they implode and only win 3 or 4 games
This is a 3 or 4 win level roster without imploding. They might win more than that because of how the NFL (Pats shanking a gimme winning FG) is but that is how bereft of talent this roster still is until proven otherwise.
We have more talent than last year, why didn’t we only win 3 or 4? And if Jones is healthy he gives us a better chance to win each week than Taylor or DeVito.
Like I said, things go other either way in the NFL. Pats shanked a game-winning FG. Tyrod messed up two goal-line opportunities against the Bills. Looking at the opponents for 2024 the only one you can argue that the Giants are better on paper is the Panthers and I don't even know about that.
Nabers and Burns are better talent but they haven't played a down for the Giants yet, and then your banking on the progress of a lot of young players. Also, both Taylor and Devito outplayed Jones last season.
This is a bad, bad team still and a couple more years of needed talent infusion including having an NFL starting caliber QB.
If you want to be completely negative then you can believe what you wrote.
Last year they had one of the hardest schedules in football, if not the hardest. And it wasn't just one OL, it was about 3 or 4 guys on the line that got hurt.
No matter what, with that line and injuries to the top two QBs, they start a PS 3rd Qb and still win 6 games. It is hard to believe they will be worse than that. This is a better roster than last year. It is still not a good one, but it is clearly better than last year.
Yes, it is their team now, no questions asked.
I certainly didn't.
Schoen is much bigger problem. He has more power and his team building skills look below par right now.
Couldn't agree more. The car doesn't have a steering wheel, hard to drive it.
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In comment 16497696 darren in pdx said:
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In comment 16497521 UConn4523 said:
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they implode and only win 3 or 4 games
This is a 3 or 4 win level roster without imploding. They might win more than that because of how the NFL (Pats shanking a gimme winning FG) is but that is how bereft of talent this roster still is until proven otherwise.
We have more talent than last year, why didn’t we only win 3 or 4? And if Jones is healthy he gives us a better chance to win each week than Taylor or DeVito.
Like I said, things go other either way in the NFL. Pats shanked a game-winning FG. Tyrod messed up two goal-line opportunities against the Bills. Looking at the opponents for 2024 the only one you can argue that the Giants are better on paper is the Panthers and I don't even know about that.
Nabers and Burns are better talent but they haven't played a down for the Giants yet, and then your banking on the progress of a lot of young players. Also, both Taylor and Devito outplayed Jones last season.
This is a bad, bad team still and a couple more years of needed talent infusion including having an NFL starting caliber QB.
But that’s not exclusive to 2023. That happens every year to every team. We are going to lose games late and win some late based on many variables. We could have won 9 games again had our players been healthy, who knows.
Yes, I’m banking on progress to be a better than .500 football team, but we don’t need much progress, if any, to win 6 games again. Every other team has the same opportunity to improve with their young players, no reason that can’t be us.
Hopefully though Daboll watches where he throws those tablets next season. Last thing we need is for DJ to get knocked in the noggin’ and the injury guarantee kicks in.
Schoen and Daboll should BOTH be fired in that scenario.
and it’ll be Mara’s fault, but he can’t fire himself, so the endless cycle of misery continues until Daniel Jones retires.
i wish i were exaggerating.
The shitty clickbait media here will have those articles ready to go the minute the giants fall below
500