DJ is not Patrick Mahomes, neither was Phil Simms, Jeff Hosteler or Eli Manning. Each of the former had their own strengths and contributed each of our SB wins. DJ has incredible athleticism, unflappable demeanor, and has shown nothing but professionalism throughout his career. His 2022 season was topped off with a road playoff victory that Giants fan all seem to diminish when the subject is brought up. In 2022 DJ stats were as follows:
Over 3,000 yds, 3-1 TD to INT ratio, over 90 QBR. He has a modest career QBR rating of 85.2 with possibly the worst Giants Oline in our storied history. Not just a bad Oline, we are talking all time worst Oline!! DJ has all of the tools to win and be a key part of the turnaround. I look forward to the future with great optimism. Our misfortunes aren’t because of DJ, they are due to poor drafting and mismanagement from the top down that ultimately ruined the end of Eli’s (potential HOF’er)career and have made DJ a punching bag throughout his career.
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In comment 16498414 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Bob in VA…🤣🤣🤣.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
Welcome to the cult Bob! We meet at John Maras house every Tuesday at 8 to discuss all things we love about Daniel.
It’s simple for me….I love the Giants….I also love Schoen and Daboll….and I’m willing to be patient and trust their decisions knowing they have a plan but also knowing some things take time.
They loved Maye but couldn’t get him….so they are playing with the deck of cards given to them. Things can always change….I feel confident our leaders can adapt.
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In comment 16498512 Bob in VA said:
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In comment 16498414 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Bob in VA…🤣🤣🤣.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
Welcome to the cult Bob! We meet at John Maras house every Tuesday at 8 to discuss all things we love about Daniel.
It’s simple for me….I love the Giants….I also love Schoen and Daboll….and I’m willing to be patient and trust their decisions knowing they have a plan but also knowing some things take time.
They loved Maye but couldn’t get him….so they are playing with the deck of cards given to them. Things can always change….I feel confident our leaders can adapt.
I really think Nabers will open things up. I just don't know how Jones will handle the beating he has taking mentally at this point. He is a talented guy and I still have some cautious hope for him.
Either way though some people are going to try and kill this site with the constant obsession about complaining about Jones. I found myself coming less and less due to this because it's the same posters and they name call if you want to have a fair and open discussion.
Who cares? What does that have to do with him being any good or not, and what does that have to do with him being an overpaid poor quarterback?
We're all rooting for the Giants to be a good team. Those of us that are angry are so because we see their actions are preventing that from happening.
How much more proof do you need? I've been asking some derivative of that question since 2018. I can't believe this team is still in this quagmire. What a shitty draft this was. Oof.
If you have any insightful analysis, news, updates, even jokes, please share. That'd be really appreciated.
In comment 16498560 Go Terps said:
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But I will root for the guy standing behind center.
Who cares? What does that have to do with him being any good or not, and what does that have to do with him being an overpaid poor quarterback?
We're all rooting for the Giants to be a good team. Those of us that are angry are so because we see their actions are preventing that from happening.
How much more proof do you need? I've been asking some derivative of that question since 2018. I can't believe this team is still in this quagmire. What a shitty draft this was. Oof.
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Bob in VA…🤣🤣🤣.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
No pal. You said you pretty much prioritized them making money over winning. Don’t try to weasel out of that.
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In comment 16498238 AnnapolisMike said:
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Some of you idiots just need to shut up and fall in behind your Giants QB. The team around him has been a shit show all 5 years he has been here yet he has been one of the few bright spots along the way.
Yeah he sucked last season when he played. But he was missing EVERYONE that mattered and was battered behind an inept OL. The backups benefited from the return of Thomas and others and the team played better. Cutlets won 3 games against mediocre competition.
I was hoping that they would draft someone to replace him in a year or two. His injuries are a major concern as is the fact he may well be damaged goods at this time mentally.
Where do I sign up to me a member of the DJFC? He is going to need a few of us behind him!
'He has been one of the few bright spots along the way." Is this sarcasm? Are we watching the same games?
Apparently we are not. Jones is not why this team has sucked. Jones is not the reason to hey have a losing record in his 5 years. The TEAM has sucked beyond belief. Shit defense and outside of Barkley and Thomas...nothing on offense. It's been a joke and the clowns here think drafting a new QB will magically make the Giants good again. The one good year we had in 22....Jones was pretty damn good.
We will have a new QB soon enough. But I will root for the guy standing behind center.
He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
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In comment 16498447 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 16498361 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 16498335 ryanmkeane said:
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And SFG, there’s a massive difference between “excuse making” and realizing you can’t really play quarterback when you are pressured 38 times in a single game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
then it should be the Jones faction’s burden to explain why Jones has never had a good line anywhere between college and the pros no matter who was on the line or how the Giants had a functional offense with a journeyman and a UDFA at qb, or why Jones makes inexplicable mistakes and misses open receivers and throws when he does have time. Oh and while you are at it, explain the same issues with every receiver he has had ever.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
So Homer or anybody else (no one is answering this question)…..if DJ is so bad, why did Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka all agree to keep DJ around after the 2022 season? I mean, first off, the guy wins 9 games, we make the playoffs for the first time in a long time, wins us a playoff game, and yet you haters still want to hate and not give him his due.
So please tell me why those 3 guys agreed to extend his contract if guys like you know more and are better at analyzing QBs than they are?
They probably caved to Mara. They fucked up
I’m sorry but I don’t buy that answer. If you think Mara hs that kind of influence, wasnt Saquon a favorite of Mara? Where is he now?
You don't think Mara has that kind of influence? He owns the fucking team. He can do whatever he wants. You think 3 regimes were all in on Daniel Jones after the garbage production he put up? The constants here are John Mara and Daniel Jones. I'm tired of dancing around the issue. Mara made them pass on the Maye deal. Mara is keeping Jones in place.
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In comment 16498414 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Bob in VA…🤣🤣🤣.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
No pal. You said you pretty much prioritized them making money over winning. Don’t try to weasel out of that.
Now you’re reading something that isn’t there. Go back and re-read the posts, nowhere did I prioritize anything.
Listen, I'm glad you're happy that John Mara that Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. I'd rather, ya know, win, but to each their own.
The OL that can block well for Jones doesn’t exist. It’s a figment of the imagination.
Listen, I'm glad you're happy that John Mara that Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. I'd rather, ya know, win, but to each their own.
I didn’t say I’m happy Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. Again, you conclude something that is backed with no evidence. I agree, winning is great, and I too would like to see the Giants win more games. But unlike you, I’m not here saying how sick I am about other’s opinions, claiming the organization is poorly run, or ya know, calling people names. You’re acting like a child, in more ways than one.
If you look at the last 10 seasons (just for the sake of round numbers):
- Giants have the 3rd fewest wins
- Scored the 2nd fewest points
- Scored the 3rd fewest touchdowns
Now, if the success the team had 1, 2, 3, 4 decades ago is enough to convince a fan the team is ran well, that's cool.
I think a 10-year stretch of near league leading failure is enough to establish something is pretty wrong.
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But I will root for the guy standing behind center.
Who cares? What does that have to do with him being any good or not, and what does that have to do with him being an overpaid poor quarterback?
We're all rooting for the Giants to be a good team. Those of us that are angry are so because we see their actions are preventing that from happening.
How much more proof do you need? I've been asking some derivative of that question since 2018. I can't believe this team is still in this quagmire. What a shitty draft this was. Oof.
"What a shitty draft this was. Oof"
-Giants are being universally praised for the Nabers pick. In fact, he's being called the best non-QB player in the entire draft by some, one guy actually thinks he's the very best player. Giants got him at 6.
-Giants are being praised for the Nubin pick. Sy thinks he might be better than McKinney right now and he'll make about 17M less dollars than him. A top safety with great ball skills and tackling at 47 overall.
-Nick Saban called Dru Phillips one of the sneaky best corners in the draft and loves his game. Giants have basically 1 corner on the roster who can be counted on. Phillips was Jeremiah's 50th rated player and we got him at 70.
-Giants being praised for the Theo Johnson pick as a high upside pick in the 4th round.
Again - your job is to bitch and moan about everything the Giants do as long as Daniel Jones is still the quarterback. Most of us who live in reality are going to accept the fact that the Giants did their best to land another QB and couldn't do it. In fact, they offered the Pats their 2nd round pick this year, and their 2025 1st, just to move up 3 spots, and the Pats still said no.
Get over it.
If you look at the last 10 seasons (just for the sake of round numbers):
- Giants have the 3rd fewest wins
- Scored the 2nd fewest points
- Scored the 3rd fewest touchdowns
Now, if the success the team had 1, 2, 3, 4 decades ago is enough to convince a fan the team is ran well, that's cool.
I think a 10-year stretch of near league leading failure is enough to establish something is pretty wrong.
The point for mentioning the NYG financial success is to highlight the priorities of the ownership are not the same as the priorities of the fans.
But, there he is.
So, for 2024, if the QB position is bad, it's because DJ is bad.
No excuses.
For BBI, please stop whining about Jones. If you don't like him, you have probably made your point 1000 times.
Complaining about excuses is as tiresome as the excuses themselves.
If you look at the last 10 seasons (just for the sake of round numbers):
- Giants have the 3rd fewest wins
- Scored the 2nd fewest points
- Scored the 3rd fewest touchdowns
Now, if the success the team had 1, 2, 3, 4 decades ago is enough to convince a fan the team is ran well, that's cool.
I think a 10-year stretch of near league leading failure is enough to establish something is pretty wrong.
The point for mentioning the NYG financial success is to highlight the priorities of the ownership are not the same as the priorities of the fans.
I think we all understand that. The lion's share of financial success the Giants enjoy is a product of league-wide endeavors, specifically national TV contracts.
So if the on-field product has been the 3rd worst over the past 10 years, and the majority of the financial success is brokered by the league, are you really so sure the Giants are a well run organization?
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You said something alone the lines of the 'Maras are pretty successful by NFL metrics that matter most to owners', implying $ because they're one of the most valuable franchises.
Listen, I'm glad you're happy that John Mara that Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. I'd rather, ya know, win, but to each their own.
I didn’t say I’m happy Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. Again, you conclude something that is backed with no evidence. I agree, winning is great, and I too would like to see the Giants win more games. But unlike you, I’m not here saying how sick I am about other’s opinions, claiming the organization is poorly run, or ya know, calling people names. You’re acting like a child, in more ways than one.
Again, completely making shit up.
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In comment 16498640 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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You said something alone the lines of the 'Maras are pretty successful by NFL metrics that matter most to owners', implying $ because they're one of the most valuable franchises.
Listen, I'm glad you're happy that John Mara that Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. I'd rather, ya know, win, but to each their own.
I didn’t say I’m happy Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. Again, you conclude something that is backed with no evidence. I agree, winning is great, and I too would like to see the Giants win more games. But unlike you, I’m not here saying how sick I am about other’s opinions, claiming the organization is poorly run, or ya know, calling people names. You’re acting like a child, in more ways than one.
Again, completely making shit up.
What have I made up?
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The Giants have been wildly financially successful (as have all NFL teams) over the last 10 years.
If you look at the last 10 seasons (just for the sake of round numbers):
- Giants have the 3rd fewest wins
- Scored the 2nd fewest points
- Scored the 3rd fewest touchdowns
Now, if the success the team had 1, 2, 3, 4 decades ago is enough to convince a fan the team is ran well, that's cool.
I think a 10-year stretch of near league leading failure is enough to establish something is pretty wrong.
The point for mentioning the NYG financial success is to highlight the priorities of the ownership are not the same as the priorities of the fans.
I think we all understand that. The lion's share of financial success the Giants enjoy is a product of league-wide endeavors, specifically national TV contracts.
So if the on-field product has been the 3rd worst over the past 10 years, and the majority of the financial success is brokered by the league, are you really so sure the Giants are a well run organization?
If the ‘majority’ (not sure how you define that, but let’s go with it) of financial success is brokered by the league, then why arent team revenues and values nearly identical?
You said you’re sick of the excuses for Jones’ performance. Those excuses come from people expressing opinion on what may have contributed to that poor performance or what may contribute to better performance in the future.
If your sick and tired of watching Jones - maybe take a break from watching them. Theres nothing that can be done now until the next draft. But if posters feel the need to post the same stuff 50 times a thread on every thread for their therapy session - well so be it.
But when adversity hit, he folded.
Aside from his injury history, I think he's even more screwed up in the head. If he had Daboll since rookie year I think he'd be different now but no he had Joe Judge. Can you fix upstairs?
The fact that both Tyrod Taylor AND Devito outplayed him.. thats indefensible.
I will root for him, but the Giants are just treading water right now.. but heading out into deeper waters, lets see if this FO can make it out.
So if the on-field product has been the 3rd worst over the past 10 years, and the majority of the financial success is brokered by the league, are you really so sure the Giants are a well run organization?
If the ‘majority’ (not sure how you define that, but let’s go with it) of financial success is brokered by the league, then why arent team revenues and values nearly identical?
Because majority means most not all.
Despite virtually all of the NFL franchises being private institutions, the Green Bay Packers are a public company and therefore have to report earnings. This gives us insight to how much each teams earns from media rights, and gives us a good proxy to estimate how other teams are doing.
For the 2023 season, each team will receive ~400M in what's called national NFL revenue (I'm inferring this as the 2022 number was 374M, and the published increase in per team TV revenue for 2023 was +20M per team, and the estimate of total shared revenue has grown at about 27M YoY).
The 2022 operating revenue for the Packers was 610M. The difference between the 370M and 610M is what's called local revenue. This is mostly ticket, PSLs, parking, and concession sales, and stadium advertising.
The Giants have a bigger stadium and charge more for these things, so their total revenue is surely more than the Packers. But for local revenue to exceed 400M and equal what they earn from national NFL revenue is unlikely. They play the same number of games, so it's very likely the majority of revenue is still coming from the NFL.
And that doesn't even take into consideration net profit, which would really tell the story of being a well ran business. But we do't have access to that information.
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I think we all understand that. The lion's share of financial success the Giants enjoy is a product of league-wide endeavors, specifically national TV contracts.
So if the on-field product has been the 3rd worst over the past 10 years, and the majority of the financial success is brokered by the league, are you really so sure the Giants are a well run organization?
If the ‘majority’ (not sure how you define that, but let’s go with it) of financial success is brokered by the league, then why arent team revenues and values nearly identical?
Because majority means most not all.
Despite virtually all of the NFL franchises being private institutions, the Green Bay Packers are a public company and therefore have to report earnings. This gives us insight to how much each teams earns from media rights, and gives us a good proxy to estimate how other teams are doing.
For the 2023 season, each team will receive ~400M in what's called national NFL revenue (I'm inferring this as the 2022 number was 374M, and the published increase in per team TV revenue for 2023 was +20M per team, and the estimate of total shared revenue has grown at about 27M YoY).
The 2022 operating revenue for the Packers was 610M. The difference between the 370M and 610M is what's called local revenue. This is mostly ticket, PSLs, parking, and concession sales, and stadium advertising.
The Giants have a bigger stadium and charge more for these things, so their total revenue is surely more than the Packers. But for local revenue to exceed 400M and equal what they earn from national NFL revenue is unlikely. They play the same number of games, so it's very likely the majority of revenue is still coming from the NFL.
And that doesn't even take into consideration net profit, which would really tell the story of being a well ran business. But we do't have access to that information.
Don't take my word for it, read here: https://nypost.com/sports/the-best-nfl-franchises-of-the-super-bowl-era-ranked/. Sure, opinions vary, but rarely will you find an educated perspective that concludes the Giants are a poorly run franchise.
Folks on this site often conclude the organization is 'shitty', or poorly run, because of low win totals or player decisions they disagree with.
In the end, no, the organization is not poorly run but we hear a lot of cry-babies claim such.
Despite virtually all of the NFL franchises being private institutions, the Green Bay Packers are a public company and therefore have to report earnings. This gives us insight to how much each teams earns from media rights, and gives us a good proxy to estimate how other teams are doing.
For the 2023 season, each team will receive ~400M in what's called national NFL revenue (I'm inferring this as the 2022 number was 374M, and the published increase in per team TV revenue for 2023 was +20M per team, and the estimate of total shared revenue has grown at about 27M YoY).
The 2022 operating revenue for the Packers was 610M. The difference between the 370M and 610M is what's called local revenue. This is mostly ticket, PSLs, parking, and concession sales, and stadium advertising.
The Giants have a bigger stadium and charge more for these things, so their total revenue is surely more than the Packers. But for local revenue to exceed 400M and equal what they earn from national NFL revenue is unlikely. They play the same number of games, so it's very likely the majority of revenue is still coming from the NFL.
And that doesn't even take into consideration net profit, which would really tell the story of being a well ran business. But we do't have access to that information.
Don't take my word for it, read here: https://nypost.com/sports/the-best-nfl-franchises-of-the-super-bowl-era-ranked/. Sure, opinions vary, but rarely will you find an educated perspective that concludes the Giants are a poorly run franchise.
Folks on this site often conclude the organization is 'shitty', or poorly run, because of low win totals or player decisions they disagree with.
In the end, no, the organization is not poorly run but we hear a lot of cry-babies claim such.
That's a pretty dubious list if the Commanders are two spots behind the Giants. I wouldn't categorize the owner being effectively forced to sell the team in part because he was spying on the cheerleaders as a hallmark of a well run shop.
I think the trailing 10 years of results are a pretty good data point to at least analyze the on-the-field results.
And over that time the only teams with fewer wins are the Jaguars and Jets.
How about we frame the question like this: do you believe the Giants have been a well run franchise over the last 10 years?
Simms - was benched injured and did not come into his own until year 6
Hoffsetter - was our back up QB
Collins - was picked up off the trash heap after having problems
Eli - two less than perfect teams got on a roll
I thought about it, and have come to the conclusion that it has absolutely nothing to do with the 2024 Giants.
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Because majority means most not all.
Despite virtually all of the NFL franchises being private institutions, the Green Bay Packers are a public company and therefore have to report earnings. This gives us insight to how much each teams earns from media rights, and gives us a good proxy to estimate how other teams are doing.
For the 2023 season, each team will receive ~400M in what's called national NFL revenue (I'm inferring this as the 2022 number was 374M, and the published increase in per team TV revenue for 2023 was +20M per team, and the estimate of total shared revenue has grown at about 27M YoY).
The 2022 operating revenue for the Packers was 610M. The difference between the 370M and 610M is what's called local revenue. This is mostly ticket, PSLs, parking, and concession sales, and stadium advertising.
The Giants have a bigger stadium and charge more for these things, so their total revenue is surely more than the Packers. But for local revenue to exceed 400M and equal what they earn from national NFL revenue is unlikely. They play the same number of games, so it's very likely the majority of revenue is still coming from the NFL.
And that doesn't even take into consideration net profit, which would really tell the story of being a well ran business. But we do't have access to that information.
Don't take my word for it, read here: https://nypost.com/sports/the-best-nfl-franchises-of-the-super-bowl-era-ranked/. Sure, opinions vary, but rarely will you find an educated perspective that concludes the Giants are a poorly run franchise.
Folks on this site often conclude the organization is 'shitty', or poorly run, because of low win totals or player decisions they disagree with.
In the end, no, the organization is not poorly run but we hear a lot of cry-babies claim such.
That's a pretty dubious list if the Commanders are two spots behind the Giants. I wouldn't categorize the owner being effectively forced to sell the team in part because he was spying on the cheerleaders as a hallmark of a well run shop.
I think the trailing 10 years of results are a pretty good data point to at least analyze the on-the-field results.
And over that time the only teams with fewer wins are the Jaguars and Jets.
How about we frame the question like this: do you believe the Giants have been a well run franchise over the last 10 years?
Certainly is a good question. If posed to me, I'd either have to ask what metrics you're using to determine what 'well-run' means, or I'd have to provide the metrics that justify my answer.
My answer: yes, the NYG are a well-run organization based on historic SB success and franchise value/revenue streams consistently near the top of the league.
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In comment 16498447 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 16498361 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 16498335 ryanmkeane said:
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And SFG, there’s a massive difference between “excuse making” and realizing you can’t really play quarterback when you are pressured 38 times in a single game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
then it should be the Jones faction’s burden to explain why Jones has never had a good line anywhere between college and the pros no matter who was on the line or how the Giants had a functional offense with a journeyman and a UDFA at qb, or why Jones makes inexplicable mistakes and misses open receivers and throws when he does have time. Oh and while you are at it, explain the same issues with every receiver he has had ever.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
So Homer or anybody else (no one is answering this question)…..if DJ is so bad, why did Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka all agree to keep DJ around after the 2022 season? I mean, first off, the guy wins 9 games, we make the playoffs for the first time in a long time, wins us a playoff game, and yet you haters still want to hate and not give him his due.
So please tell me why those 3 guys agreed to extend his contract if guys like you know more and are better at analyzing QBs than they are?
They probably caved to Mara. They fucked up
I’m sorry but I don’t buy that answer. If you think Mara hs that kind osionnell?
luence over perf influence, wasnt Saquon a favorite of Mara? Where is he now?
Mara said himself he would not trade Barkley because "He deserved better"...
You honestly believe Mara doesn't have that kind of influence over personnel?
Certainly is a good question. If posed to me, I'd either have to ask what metrics you're using to determine what 'well-run' means, or I'd have to provide the metrics that justify my answer.
My answer: yes, the NYG are a well-run organization based on historic SB success and franchise value/revenue streams consistently near the top of the league.
I'd argue the three ways to evaluate a team are:
1) Net profit - Because over half the revenue is spotted to the team, revenue isn't a great reflection of operations. We can make a pretty good guess on the top line, be we don't have enough information on their costs, debt, etc.
2) Valuation - Any business getting spotted 400M in revenue is going to enjoy a healthy valuation. Like all sports franchises the Giants value has risen the last decade, because of the guaranteed revenue stream and because franchises are a playground for billionaires.
3) On-the-field performance - As noted above, the Giants have the third worst performance on the field of all teams over the last 10 years.
So over the last 10 years, the two things we know are the Giants have been the third worst team and the value of the franchise has risen, in large part because the majority of the revenue is spotted to the team.
All NFL teams make a lot of money. And the Giants are the biggest team in the biggest market.
All NFL teams make a lot of money. And the Giants are the biggest team in the biggest market.
No one is claiming the Giants are great.
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How about we frame the question like this: do you believe the Giants have been a well run franchise over the last 10 years?
Certainly is a good question. If posed to me, I'd either have to ask what metrics you're using to determine what 'well-run' means, or I'd have to provide the metrics that justify my answer.
My answer: yes, the NYG are a well-run organization based on historic SB success and franchise value/revenue streams consistently near the top of the league.
I'd argue the three ways to evaluate a team are:
1) Net profit - Because over half the revenue is spotted to the team, revenue isn't a great reflection of operations. We can make a pretty good guess on the top line, be we don't have enough information on their costs, debt, etc.
2) Valuation - Any business getting spotted 400M in revenue is going to enjoy a healthy valuation. Like all sports franchises the Giants value has risen the last decade, because of the guaranteed revenue stream and because franchises are a playground for billionaires.
3) On-the-field performance - As noted above, the Giants have the third worst performance on the field of all teams over the last 10 years.
So over the last 10 years, the two things we know are the Giants have been the third worst team and the value of the franchise has risen, in large part because the majority of the revenue is spotted to the team.
Not sure what your point is. Yes, in the last 10 years the win-loss record has sucked.. third worst.
All teams have increased their value over the last 10 years. And all teams have been spotted a majority of their revenue by the league. My point is that the NYG are consistently near the top of the value/revenue list every year. As such, I conclude they are not a poorly run organization.
Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
It feels a little like you have backed yourself into a corner here and are looking to somehow tunnel into it further.
I'll take a shot at it. I think many, if not all, fans assess their team's success using some combination of win-loss records, playoff appearances, and championships.
I think you may be the only fan evaluating it based on money earned in a league that virtually prints it for all 32 teams.
Not sure what your point is. Yes, in the last 10 years the win-loss record has sucked.. third worst.
All teams have increased their value over the last 10 years. And all teams have been spotted a majority of their revenue by the league. My point is that the NYG are consistently near the top of the value/revenue list every year. As such, I conclude they are not a poorly run organization.
Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions
The valuation and revenue are not good metrics to assess the well-running of a business. The Giants are worth a lot in large part because of their geography and the value of their interest in the stadium. Revenue is a topline number that only measures how much you bring in, not whether you are profitable.
Even if you bring it down a step in the P&L and look at operating income, you don't know if the team has offloaded debt to another entity and what the true service of that debt is.
The two things we know are:
1) The Giants bring in a lot of money
2) They've sucked on the field
The one piece of evidence we can point to that directionally helps us understand their finance, is that they were able to secure the financing to pay for 50% of the stadium. That's more than 10-year-old data at this point though.
You can find various reports online that the Giants operating income is ~200M. I'm not sure where that's sourced, because I don't believe that's publicly reported. If that 200M is after all costs, then yes, the Giants are financially solid.
So best guess, the Giants run a good financial shop, and a terrible football shop.
They win and we lose.
Soccer may be the biggest sport in the world. But in terms of entertainment product. Nothing on the planet touches the NFL. And the big market and legacy franchises benefit from that. The Giants did nothing to merit accolades for their financial success. All they did was be a part of the NFL.
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Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
It feels a little like you have backed yourself into a corner here and are looking to somehow tunnel into it further.
I'll take a shot at it. I think many, if not all, fans assess their team's success using some combination of win-loss records, playoff appearances, and championships.
I think you may be the only fan evaluating it based on money earned in a league that virtually prints it for all 32 teams.
I'm in no way trying to back off my position. If you look back at the posts (I don't really suggest you do that), my disagreement with some whining poster is that he complained the Giants are a poorly run organization, seemingly based on the player decisions they make. My point is that they aren't poorly run, and provide the measures against which I base my perspective.
I'll also establish that the primary objective of the NYG ownership is to run a financially successful business, not to draft, trade, or sign players based on fan opinions, which seems to be what some folks on this site expect from them.
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In comment 16498452 Darwinian said:
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In comment 16498447 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 16498361 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 16498335 ryanmkeane said:
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And SFG, there’s a massive difference between “excuse making” and realizing you can’t really play quarterback when you are pressured 38 times in a single game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
then it should be the Jones faction’s burden to explain why Jones has never had a good line anywhere between college and the pros no matter who was on the line or how the Giants had a functional offense with a journeyman and a UDFA at qb, or why Jones makes inexplicable mistakes and misses open receivers and throws when he does have time. Oh and while you are at it, explain the same issues with every receiver he has had ever.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
So Homer or anybody else (no one is answering this question)…..if DJ is so bad, why did Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka all agree to keep DJ around after the 2022 season? I mean, first off, the guy wins 9 games, we make the playoffs for the first time in a long time, wins us a playoff game, and yet you haters still want to hate and not give him his due.
So please tell me why those 3 guys agreed to extend his contract if guys like you know more and are better at analyzing QBs than they are?
They probably caved to Mara. They fucked up
I’m sorry but I don’t buy that answer. If you think Mara hs that kind of influence, wasnt Saquon a favorite of Mara? Where is he now?
You don't think Mara has that kind of influence? He owns the fucking team. He can do whatever he wants. You think 3 regimes were all in on Daniel Jones after the garbage production he put up? The constants here are John Mara and Daniel Jones. I'm tired of dancing around the issue. Mara made them pass on the Maye deal. Mara is keeping Jones in place.
ahhhh. This "new" nutjob smells familiar ...
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In comment 16499244 Bob in VA said:
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Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
It feels a little like you have backed yourself into a corner here and are looking to somehow tunnel into it further.
I'll take a shot at it. I think many, if not all, fans assess their team's success using some combination of win-loss records, playoff appearances, and championships.
I think you may be the only fan evaluating it based on money earned in a league that virtually prints it for all 32 teams.
I'm in no way trying to back off my position. If you look back at the posts (I don't really suggest you do that), my disagreement with some whining poster is that he complained the Giants are a poorly run organization, seemingly based on the player decisions they make. My point is that they aren't poorly run, and provide the measures against which I base my perspective.
I'll also establish that the primary objective of the NYG ownership is to run a financially successful business, not to draft, trade, or sign players based on fan opinions, which seems to be what some folks on this site expect from them.
By the metrics of financial success no NFL team is poorly run. By those metrics alone Daniel Snyder was an amazing owner by netting $5.2B from an initial $800M investment. By financial metrics Daniel Snyder might have been the best owner in the NFL the last 20 years. Are you prepared to say that?
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In comment 16499307 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16499244 Bob in VA said:
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Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
It feels a little like you have backed yourself into a corner here and are looking to somehow tunnel into it further.
I'll take a shot at it. I think many, if not all, fans assess their team's success using some combination of win-loss records, playoff appearances, and championships.
I think you may be the only fan evaluating it based on money earned in a league that virtually prints it for all 32 teams.
I'm in no way trying to back off my position. If you look back at the posts (I don't really suggest you do that), my disagreement with some whining poster is that he complained the Giants are a poorly run organization, seemingly based on the player decisions they make. My point is that they aren't poorly run, and provide the measures against which I base my perspective.
I'll also establish that the primary objective of the NYG ownership is to run a financially successful business, not to draft, trade, or sign players based on fan opinions, which seems to be what some folks on this site expect from them.
By the metrics of financial success no NFL team is poorly run. By those metrics alone Daniel Snyder was an amazing owner by netting $5.2B from an initial $800M investment. By financial metrics Daniel Snyder might have been the best owner in the NFL the last 20 years. Are you prepared to say that?
By those metrics, yes.
He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
Agreed, his passing 2022 was middle of the league. He had a high QBR because of rushing, but passer rating was middle of pack and anything that took yards into account, he was bottom third.
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He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
Agreed, his passing 2022 was middle of the league. He had a high QBR because of rushing, but passer rating was middle of pack and anything that took yards into account, he was bottom third.
Thank you! Somebody who understands statistics.
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In comment 16498253 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16498238 AnnapolisMike said:
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He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
He threw 15 TDs and ran for 7 TDs. H is rushing was very very important to our success. He averaged 60 yards a game and rushed for about 700 yards. Do you know how many 3rd downs he made with his legs? A lot….keeping the drive alive and keeping the defense off the field is very critical.
It is a fact, Jones was top in QBR….I don’t care if rushing is included….its also part of his job. I’m sure Murray, Hurts, and Jackson would agree with this too.
Repeat after me SF…JONES WAS VERY GOOD IN 2022!
We need to have higher expectations for the offense.
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In comment 16498537 AnnapolisMike said:
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In comment 16498253 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16498238 AnnapolisMike said:
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He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
He threw 15 TDs and ran for 7 TDs. H is rushing was very very important to our success. He averaged 60 yards a game and rushed for about 700 yards. Do you know how many 3rd downs he made with his legs? A lot….keeping the drive alive and keeping the defense off the field is very critical.
It is a fact, Jones was top in QBR….I don’t care if rushing is included….its also part of his job. I’m sure Murray, Hurts, and Jackson would agree with this too.
Repeat after me SF…JONES WAS VERY GOOD IN 2022!
Jones had a ton of rushing yards in large part because he’s petrified to throw the ball downfield. The rushing is fine on paper but in the grand scheme of things that isn’t sustainable and doesn’t lead to consistently putting up points. They were a bad offense in ‘22. Make no mistake about that. And they won’t be good until he can get the damn ball downfield and turn in the explosive plays that the better QBs provide. Plenty of QBs could rush for 700 yards if they absolutely refused to throw the ball downfield and just took off running most of the time. Stop overrating the rushing yards. They aren’t as fantastic as you believe
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In comment 16498537 AnnapolisMike said:
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In comment 16498253 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16498238 AnnapolisMike said:
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He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
He threw 15 TDs and ran for 7 TDs. H is rushing was very very important to our success. He averaged 60 yards a game and rushed for about 700 yards. Do you know how many 3rd downs he made with his legs? A lot….keeping the drive alive and keeping the defense off the field is very critical.
It is a fact, Jones was top in QBR….I don’t care if rushing is included….its also part of his job. I’m sure Murray, Hurts, and Jackson would agree with this too.
Repeat after me SF…JONES WAS VERY GOOD IN 2022!
We have very different definitions of ‘very good’.
Futher, and this part I can't prove, I think Daboll wanted Jones to run if he didn't feel comfortable with the post snap coverage. Once the league caught on heading into 2023, that was significantly neutralized.