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Sy'56 2024 NYG Draft Analysis and What I Would Have Done

Sy'56 : 4/30/2024 4:19 pm
The 2024 NFL Draft was one of the most anticipated in Giants history. They were picking top ten for the seventh time in ten years. While that is never where you want to earn your draft slot, it goes to show many highly anticipated draft picks this team has made over the last decade. What made this unique, however, was the unstable ground the quarterback room stands on despite starter Daniel Jones being signed to a long term, hefty contract last offseason. This was a very good quarterback class – one that actually set a record Thursday night – but the top three wide receivers (also a strong position of need) could match up with the top three receivers in any draft class, ever. The constant back and forth discussions and potential directions this franchise could head in inevitably shape the future of this franchise, more so than normal.

So, with that – here is my breakdown of the 2024 Giants Draft along with what I would have done differently. For those that do not know – I make picks in real time for NYG to give a real comparison of what this draft class could have looked like from a different perspective. This is NOT “mine is better” analysis– it is simply a different approach. Let’s get into it.

ROUND 1 / Pick 6: Malik Nabers – WR/LSU

Grade: 90 (#3 WR)


Junior entry, three-year starter. All-American and first team All-SEC in 2023. Nabers steadily developed from a high school player that did not play as a senior to one of the most productive receivers in the country. He plays a notably physical brand for the position with level of competitiveness that shows up in several ways. Blended in with his elite top-end burst and above average speed, Nabers has the style of a guy that can evolve into a credible number one threat. The savvy, team-first playmaker is going to be a coach’s favorite and has the upside of a true number one. Strong and physical receiver that can run every route. Productive throughout the entire route tree. Cuts in and out of his breaks with precision. Will open windows of separation with sudden change of direction and accurate timing. Sets up and reads defensive backs. Wins with both his body and mind. Steadily improved his ball skills and has turned them into a strength of his game. Frames the ball and shows ability to attack it with his hands. Adjusts his frame in the air after an explosive pounce to the ball. Coordination while moving at such a fast rate will create late, high difficulty catches in traffic. Tenacity shows up after the catch. Breaks tackles via balance, bend, and strength. Equally distributed alignment and versatility will give playcallers several options. Does not have enough size to consistently factor against bigger corners. Will drop balls that he allows into his frame. Does not always play with proper timing and urgency against press coverage, which can create problems on timing-based concepts. Needs to come back to the ball more assertively.

There are several angles to discuss here. First – let’s get into the Nabers vs. McCarthy debate. NYG had to go QB or WR with this pick. The debate was a solid (not great) QB vs. elite WR. I’ve been thinking about both sides for months and they both make a strong case. I will get into where I thought the decision should have ended up, but let’s make it known that Nabers is the best receiver prospect they’ve had on this team since Odell Beckham and I think he can be even better. They’re different players but the comparison revolves around competitiveness, grit, and playmaking potential.

Nabers will create production all over the field, in all situations. He can take a short dump off, and the entire defense will feel the hair on their necks stand up because of what he can do. He can get himself open with abrupt change of direction and a rare level of explosion. He can finish downfield in traffic and extend to the ball while moving at his top rate of speed on deep routes. No matter the case, Nabers simply checks box after box when looking for the elite projection from a receiver. The Giants offense ranks among the league-worst in explosive plays over the past three years. Nabers alone is going to raise the bar. He equally lined up outside and in the slot, similar to what Stefon Diggs did in Buffalo when Daboll was calling the shots there. Nabers has that potential with more to chew off because of the athleticism. Diggs is, in fact, just the floor of Nabers. Whatever ends up happening at QB in the next year or two, this is a playmaker that will make others better and it is, without question, an outstanding selection and addition.

Who I Would Have Picked:

JJ McCarthy – QB/Michigan

Grade: 84 (#3 QB)

McCarthy entered the deep portion of the evaluation process as a day two guy. Like several others that I respect in scouting, his grade made its way into round one once all of the film was broken down. Whenever I heard the “he never had to carry a team” line or “he was surrounded by talent” line – honestly, I would cringe a little. McCarthy was a no-doubt first rounder and a no-doubt guy I would feel good about drafting to lead my team. He is a winner. He is a competitor that knows the game inside-out. He is a guy that responds to pressure the way the great ones do. He played his best football against his toughest competition. He can take hard coaching. He can lead from the front. With what is going on at the quarterback position here in New York and the level of importance even Joe Schoen has alluded to, I was still leaning toward this being a necessary move. There are negatives on McCarthy here and I understand them. You do not get to truly bank on the rookie QB contract until 2026 (which leaves just three years of extra spending potential). You know how miserable life will be for Jones when he throws his first interception. And you still enter the season without a true number one receiver. I get all of that. It is a complex situation but such as in life; when things get too complicated, make them simple. NYG does not have the long-term answer at QB, there was one that met the grade available, and there are jam-packed receiver classes entering the league every year (including what I project initially in 2025). McCarthy changes the long-term projection of this franchise if he is the pick.


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ROUND 2 / Pick 47: Tyler Nubin – S/Minnesota

Grade: 81 (#3 S)


Fifth year senior. Three-year starter. All-Big. Ten three straight years, first team in 2023 in addition to second team All-American honors. Nubin is one of the most experienced defensive backs in the class and one that contributed on special teams all five seasons. He led the Gophers on special teams tackles in both 2020 and 2023, a taste of his usage and impact along multiple mediums on a roster. At safety, Nubin improved his tackling year after year. He is both physical and technically sound, smart and aggressive. The ideal combination of traits as the final line of defense will be there for the team that brings him in. While his movement traits are good enough, there are issues with him playing a deep coverage role that needs to reach the sideline against vertical speed. His downhill bias has put him in bad spots and that fluidity to turn and catch up is not there. While some of those issues can be hidden with his excellent and consistent instincts and intelligence, he will not be the guy that can carry a secondary. Instead, he will be the reliable underneath and intermediate defender that can direct traffic and make plays on the ball when the opportunities are there. His 13 career interceptions set a program record and are top five all time in Big Ten history among safeties.

It is important to note that I graded Cooper DeJean as a safety – but he was announced as a corner, and he will likely play a nickel role for Philadelphia. Anyway – I had a late first round grade on Nubin, a guy that I labeled a “Year 1 starter”. This is an ideal safety body with credible versatility that fits the scheme like a glove. His 13 interceptions stand out. His 37.6 passer rating when targeted stands out. And the fact he dominated on special teams all five years stands out. Nubin is a plug and play guy that I would not be at all surprised to see in the starting lineup week one. Is there some fear here with the lack of pure top end speed? Sure. But it didn’t show up on tape often and the intelligence he plays with is something I care more about than the forty time. Nubin is the kind of guy you love to have on your team. The question will be how high the upside truly is. If those interceptions don’t show up in the NFL, what else can he be? I don’t trust him against NFL receivers one on one. I’m not sure he will be a big-time enforcer from a physical perspective. And his speed at the next level will be merely average when projecting his range. Nubin gives NYG something they can rely on to be “solid” and he has proven there is big play potential. This defense needs as they try to replace Xavier McKinney,

Who I Would Have Picked:

Mike Sainristil – CB/Michigan

Grade: 82 (#5 CB)

I was pretty vocal pre-draft how much of a “my guy” Sainristil was. A former three-year wide receiver that ended his two-year stint on defense as an All-American corner that played both nickel and outside. I’m not sure I can ever remember a transition from one side of the ball to the other like this with these kinds of results. Just one penalty over 1,400 snaps? 6 interceptions including one of the most impressive ones I saw all year in the National Championship? There was a run on corners right before NYG came on the clock. Four straight (if you count DeJean as a corner) a few slots before. I do think they had a lot of interest in Kool-Aid McKinstry (41st overall) and Max Melton (43rd overall) but I thought Sainristil was right there with those guys. He has a similar style and projection to Dru Phillips, but I like the playmaking and margin the former has to obtain. Also, an ideal culture fit and guy that screams tough and dependable.


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Round 3 / Pick 70: Dru Phillips – CB/Kentucky

Grade: 79 (#9 CB)


One-year starter. Also part of the heavy rotation in the Kentucky defensive backfield in 2022 which hosted two eventual pro outside corners. Phillips moved from the slot to outside, although he played all over the defensive backfield all three years, in 2023. The former high school track standout that starred in triple jumps where he finished number one in the nation. That burst stands out on film. Although slightly undersized, Phillips already has a lot of pro traits in his arsenal. He is smooth as butter in his backpedal and his ability to stick is foot in the ground and explode downhill created a lot of impressive tape. The inside-out versatility in addition to impressive tape in both zone and man coverage will make him attractive to any team looking to upgrade the cornerback room. There are off-field concerns from an arrest in 2021 that need to be answered. He also failed to grab a single interception over his career. Phillips does not react as quickly in man coverage and there are too many missed tackles. The good and bad with him creates a wide margin within his projection, but this guy has starting corner written all over him.

This is an incredible athlete and I’m not sure everyone fully grasps that. The 4.48 forty may not grab your attention but his jumps are next-level. A 42” vertical and 11’3” broad jump is equivalent to seeing a sub 4.3 forty. Add in this kid actually finished number one in the nation in high school as a triple jumper and it makes sense that “Phillips found me” in the scouting process. What I mean by that is when I first saw him, I was scouting Ricky Pearsall. I barely even knew who Phillips was at the time, as he was a redshirt junior with just a handful of starts to his name. It was the movement traits that caught my eye. Off the line, at the top of routes, down the field when tracking the ball; it’s all there. Now, as much as we want to raise up Nubin for the production, we have to equally be concerned about Phillips lack-of. Zero interceptions and 10 PBUs over his career. While you can’t only use those numbers when examining production, they do factor in the grade. This is where I think he got bumped down from that wave of second round corners. NYG got Phillips exactly where I had him graded and I think the value is right. They got a corner that gives them a few options in terms of who plays where once these guys get on the field. And they got a defensive back that is yet another cost-controlled, NFL-ready cover man that gives the room a nice long-term outlook. NYG has a lot of young talent that can grow together on the defensive side, the back-end especially.

Who I Would Have Picked:

Troy Franklin – WR/Oregon

Grade: 80 (#9 WR)

Passing on an elite WR grade for McCarthy at #6 overall came with its own penalty. Then not having the proper value available in round two left the group vulnerable as round three began. It was not an ideal spot to be in but thankfully there was a standout name available, and it was a guy I had second round grade on. Franklin ended up going at the top of round four and it was one of the biggest falls of the weekend for me. The body type scares some off. He weighed in under 180 pounds, but we knew he would be light. He has the Jalin Hyatt/DeVonta Smith type frame, and I think his projection at the next level is somewhere between the two. What I love about his kid’s game is the ability to get vertical and the tenacity he shows. This is one tough SOB. Bo Nix had a 147.8 passer rating when throwing his way in 2023, 139.2 in 2022. He did line up as a slot 20% of his snaps, thus I do think there is some versatility to his game although the sudden change of direction is a bit sloppy as a route runner. I’m high on this kid being an impact dude at the next level. Yards per route run is a pretty important metric if you want to find out what translates to the next level. Franklin was 3.32 in 2023. The only three names above him? Harrison Jr, Nabers, and Tez Johnson (a potential 1st rounder in 2025). One spot ahead of Luther Burden, a candidate to be WR1 in 2025. Franklin is not near the caliber of Nabers but he would create something dangerous vertically if he and Hyatt were to pan out along with McCarthy under center.


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Round 4 / Pick 107: Theo Johnson – TE/Penn State

Grade: 78 (#4 TE)


Three-year starter. All-Big Ten in 2023. Johnson has the prototype body merged with soft hands and quick feet to pose as a potential starting tight end in the league. He has shown flashes of being a matchup nightmare for both linebackers and defensive backs. The catch radius and sheer weight he can play at should help with some of the short area movement issues he shows as a route runner and ball carrier to have at least a quality backup outlook. The athletic upside he possesses leaves the door open to a bigger role. He brings a rare blend of size and speed to the table that coaches will want a crack at developing. Johnson needs to clean up some of the fine points of the position to reach his ceiling, but the floor with him is high to feel safe about hm providing solid rotational play, at least. Checks all the boxes when he walks off the bus. Tall and long with a good blend of athletic, functional thickness. Overwhelming size in one-on-one situations with the ball in the air. Successful in contested situations and has excellent ball skills. Soft hands paired with timely coordination and accuracy. Can maneuver in tight spaces like a power forward. Will break tackles and pick up some extra yards. Can line up all over and has experience doing so. Technique-savvy blocker with a lot of margin to pick up based on tools and flexibility. Does not pose as a vertical threat that can quickly get behind the linebackers. Has some slower, heavier build up to his speed. A long strider with some tightness in his hips. Should be a more effective blocker at his size. Does not get enough push and struggles to latch.

Johnson was my favorite pick of the draft class from a value and fit perspective. I personally believe Darren Waller is done (although it is just a hunch), and NYG wanted to add a body to the room. I said this prior to the draft, and I will repeat it again; Johnson has as much upside as any tight end I this class including Bowers. It is rare to find a guy with a legit 6’6/260 frame that moves with the kind of speed he does. But Johnson is more than a big body with speed. Think of him as a plus-version of Kevin Boss. He split time at Penn State with another tight end (that will be a top 100 pick next year) and it could have somewhat hidden his true ability and progression. Now, developing as a tight end in the NFL is a long and curvy road but this is a situation where he can be a specialty weapon for the passing game in 2024 while Bellinger gets his shot at being the guy again. 2025 comes around and this kid can be an absolute stud. I have several game notes on him where I simply write “has the goods”. Another way of saying high ceiling if he applies himself and gets put in right position. I still believe the combination of Mike Kafka and Brian Daboll know what to do with a talent like this. They just got Waller a year or two late.

Who I Would Have Picked:

Theo Johnson – TE/Penn State


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Round 5 / Pick #166: Tyrone Tracy - RB/Purdue

Grade: 75 (#9 RB)


Sixth-year senior. Four-year starter that spent four seasons at Iowa before his final two at Purdue. Tracy will turn 25 years old as a rookie but in terms of running back age, he is younger than most. He played wide receiver from 2018-2022 before moving into the backfield full time in his final year. In that one season, Tracy finished fourth in the country in yards after contact per attempt in the country among backs with over 100 carries. His career was sputtering, as his best season as a receiver came in 2019. The smooth position move opened a door, one that is searching for pass game weapons out of the backfield. Tracy is not a dynamic or explosive athlete, but he simply knows what to do with the ball in his hands and it shows up as a returner as well. His progression will be an interesting one to follow, one with a high ceiling. Shifty and balanced. Shows ability to jump cut and burst north when the angle is there. Tough grinder that plays bigger than his size. Ball protection and pass protection were both positives in his lone year as a back. Will bring a receiving skill set very few can match. Needs to show better feel for timing with his blocks. Will run like he is a one man show. Too much backward bounces to the outside and will not outrun linebackers like he did in college. Will need to stretch the hole longer.

I think Tracy’s name came out of my mouth every time I was on a radio show or podcast over the past month when discussing day three options. He truly is one of the most intriguing and interesting guys in the class. He is old, but his running back-age is young. He has just 148 carries on his resume – nobody else was under 200 and almost all were above 300. Tracy is also very new to the position and while the NFL is not exactly known for its ability to develop talent with the way the CBA rules need to be navigated, there is a good chance this kid is going to improve the simple components of the position. Currently he plays a little out of control and does not exude tempo running, but he has the number one trait I look for and that is the proven ability to break tackles. Add in the obvious pass catching prowess, return ability, and impressive (but limited) pass blocking tape and I think NYG has a guy that will eventually push Eric Gray for that number two job. Gray is still a favorite of mine from last year, do not sleep on him. However, Tracy is a nice project with a different skill set and potential usage that creates a potentially diverse rotational backfield that can change up looks based on who they’re matched up against.

Who I Would Have Picked:

Mekhi Wingo – DT/LSU

Grade: 75 (#13 DT)

It was a goal of mine to add another pass rusher in this class. I did not have a strong preference between inside/outside but gun to my head, I thought the quick three-technique was the best option, The NYG defensive line room is filled with big bodies, three of which I would label run-defender biased. Jordan Phillips, DJ Davidson, Rakeem Nunez-Roches, and Jordon Riley combined for 30 pressures on a whopping 660 pass rush snaps in 2023. Under five percent, which is pitiful. That is scary-bad and NYG just doesn’t have another answer right now. In an era where teams are looking for and finding more ways to rush the passer inside, NYG is a step behind there. This class was loaded with three-techniques, it was an unusually high number of guys that can fit that role. Wingo was one of the last ones available and this would have been the right value spot. Now, at under 290 pounds with 32” arms, he is very undersized. But his athleticism is near top-notch and in a role where he would be needed for 5-10 snaps per game, it would have been a nice day three gamble. Wingo ended up going to Detroit 24 picks later.


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Round 6 / Pick #183: Darius Muasau – LB/UCLA

Grade: 71 (#17 LB)


Fifth-year senior, four-year starter. Spent three seasons at Hawaii where he was first team All-Mountain West two times. Transferred to UCLA in 2022 where he was All-Pac 12 in both 2023 and 2022. Muasau is a productive run defender that can lead a defense from the middle. He is an experienced shot caller that understands blocking schemes a step or two ahead which helps him get on the right side of blockers as he attacks downhill. Muasau does not have the size or athletic tool set to factor against the pass, whether it be as a pass rusher or cover man. His usage at the next level will be limited to early down duty and special teams. The toughness, dependability, and football IQ can keep him on a roster as a quality, dependable backup and role player.

There is a lot of chatter about special teams and the increased value of returners, and rightfully so. But this also means that special teams defenders need to be at a different level as well. I believe this pick was very much focused on that area of Muasau’s game. Many guys taken this late need to contribute on special teams right away to justify the roster spot. Not all, but most. I saw a lot of Muasau because of the amount of UCLA tape I watched over the past two seasons. He is all over the stat sheet, always around the action in the running game. Especially when they were matched up against poor offensive lines without any real NFL prospects, he was constantly beating blockers with angles and leverage. While I’m not sold on his ability as an every down player against the speed of the NFL, we see this kind of profile succeed here and there at the next level. Where they drafted him and what they can get out of him on specials early on makes this selection a good one. We will see this kid’s name on Sundays.

Who I Would Have Picked:

Malik Washington – WR/Virginia

Grade: 77 (#14 WR)

This is a guy that I kept looking past because of the selection already used at receiver and to be frank, I’m not sure there is room for him on the roster. There were a few guys I put into that category. But at this point of the draft and the kind of impact I feel Washington can have if he is in the right situation was just too much to look past. Washington is one of my favorite players in the draft. That said, we can count on one hand how many players that stand 5’8” in the league with consistent success. I do not want to put the comparison “Tyreek Hill” on Washington because nobody is Tyreek. He is one of one. But there really was no other solid projection I could come up with for this kid. While I don’t think he will reach that level or tier, Washington can be that kind of player. Move him around, throw to him from any and all angles, hand the ball off to him, let him run wild. What team ended up taking Washington? Miami. On the very next pick, not-so-ironically.



NYG Draft:

1: Malik Nabers – WR/LSU
2: Tyler Nubin – S/Minnesota
3: Dru Phillips – CB/Kentucky
4: Theo Johnson -TE/Penn State
5: Tyrone Tracy – RB/Purdue
6: Darius Muasau – LB/UCLA


Sy’56 Draft

1: JJ McCarthy – QB/Michigan
2: Mike Sainristil – CB/Michigan
3: Troy Franklin – WR/Oregon
4: Theo Johnson – Penn State
5: Mekhi Wingo – DT/LSU
6: Malik Washington – WR/Virginia



SUMMARY

This draft centered around one decision. Take the “leftover” top quarterback or go for the All-Pro graded receiver. You won’t find me dissing either side of the argument. I thought both would have been fine choices. NYG went with the latter, just as I thought they would when I first broke this decision down from Schoen’s perspective back in January. I, myself, have been back and forth multiple times on both what I think they would do and what they should do.

Did they make the aggressive trade up offer for Drake Maye? NY reporters (not all) and national reporters (not all) are saying undoubtedly yes. I think there were several hard conversations inside that room and like any responsible front office, they made calls and felt out the price. I’m sure there were credible and loud voices in that room that were on either side of the debate. And I believe part of negotiations come down to knowing whatever you put out there will eventually make its way into other NFL Draft rooms. Knowing that and understanding how misdirection works, I think certain people were told certain things so they would report specific possibilities. And then – with how media works – it gets piled on to. I do not think for one second that the media fully knows what Schoen wanted to do. And based on what I have seen and researched and based on people in the NFL I get to speak with that had opinions that centered around how NYG was treating the entire pre-draft process (not just the week before) – they were not going to sell the farm for Maye. They wanted Nabers, bad. And I even think they wanted Harrison Jr. even more. But knowing where this roster is and how much a trade up like the one reported would impede roster growth to support a young quarterback, I can’t see Schoen actually pulling the finger on that trigger. But discussions and leading others away from their true intentions were precisely executed. I’ll close the book on that.

When it comes to who they actually drafted (and who they did not), I’ll begin by saying this draft class looks incredibly strong on paper. A potential superstar “generator” in Nabers. Two credible starting defensive backs that will give NYG a young and cost-controlled secondary for years at a position group that is hard to find talent and even harder to find economic-friendly talent, and a tight end that has true top-shelf upside is an outstanding place to be. They also kept the 2025 draft picks intact beyond what they gave up in the Brian Burns deal. Just walking away from that haul is enough to give this class a solid initial outlook. Add in Tracy, a guy I thought was one of the most intriguing dudes in the class and a special teamer that will make an impact early, NYG fans should be thumbs up all day.

The cloud of the quarterback position looms, however. Will NYG be within striking distance of a new face of the franchise next year? Will there even be one available that fits the criteria? I don’t mind kicking the can down the road at all because there are even economic advanatges to waiting another season to fill in the gap. But we all know the answer is nowhere to be found. The nucleus of this team continues to strengthen under this regime but as we enter year three, the clock ticks louder and louder and that is without a captain leading from the front, the most important position in sports.
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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: great stuff as always Sy  
BleedBlue46 : 4/30/2024 7:50 pm : link
In comment 16501561 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16501535 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:



How do you project the 2025 qb class? Who are your current favorites and how many first rounders do you predict? I know it's obviously early, but I'm interested to hear.



Such a long way to go.

I feel like I could answer this differently tomorrow. Today, these five guys interest me:

Milroe, Mertz, Sanders, Ward, Ewers


I've been sleeping on Mertz. I don't watch any of Florida. It looks like he elevates his play against better defenses. That is a very good indicator to me. I'll keep an eye on him.
just superficially it'd be tough for me to bet against UGA right now  
Eric on Li : 4/30/2024 7:52 pm : link
they were dominant last year and lost the least in the draft. bowers is great but mcconkey, mims, lassiter, bullard all replaceable.
Fantastic write up! Appreciate all the hard work!  
uncledave : 4/30/2024 8:08 pm : link
I agree it was misdirection on the QB front. If Maye was your GUY you’d find a way to make it happen… they didn’t, then passed on JJM. QB next year is definitely a consideration, let’s see how bad this year goes.

It was a better draft than I anticipated it would amount to be. Not my guys but I’m not mad at it. One of the best drafts top to bottom that this team has produced in a long while, encouraging. I’m thrilled we didn’t end up taking a QB early.

I also made my own picks as we went along, my results would have been:
Rome Odunze
Mike Hall Jr
Khyree Jackson
Tanor Bortolini
Joe Milton
Brenden Rice

Always a fun time every season- particularly with all of your insights. Looking forward to next year!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: great stuff as always Sy  
bw in dc : 4/30/2024 8:09 pm : link
In comment 16501540 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


you buying will howard? michigan, bama, uw, fsu all taking steps back makes sense. UGA and TEX should both be tough. OU who knows. Cam ward is getting a lot of hype. will be a good test of cristobal's power to mess qbs up.

havent thought about it since it's far out but i think with tex and uga both returning starting QBs and coaches that's where id put the $.

ole miss could be sneaky. lane is tearing up the portal.


Howard is good college QB, and a definite upgrade over McCord. Plus, I really like the freshmen Saylin (decommitted from Bama) and Noland to round out their QB bullpen.

And as usual, they are stacked at WR (Egbuka, etc) and RB (Henderson, etc). Simmons and Jax are terrific OLs. Chip Kelly is going to have a lot to work with.

And Knowles had that D trending in the right direction. That Dline is unbelievable with Sawyer, Tuimolo, Williams, etc.

Overall, I just think they are loaded...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: great stuff as always Sy  
Mike in NY : 4/30/2024 8:09 pm : link
In comment 16501561 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16501535 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:



How do you project the 2025 qb class? Who are your current favorites and how many first rounders do you predict? I know it's obviously early, but I'm interested to hear.



Such a long way to go.

I feel like I could answer this differently tomorrow. Today, these five guys interest me:

Milroe, Mertz, Sanders, Ward, Ewers


Dart and Donovan Smith are also on my watch list for next fall (in addition to Beck and the names you listed)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: great stuff as always Sy  
BleedBlue46 : 4/30/2024 8:14 pm : link
In comment 16501628 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16501561 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16501535 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:



How do you project the 2025 qb class? Who are your current favorites and how many first rounders do you predict? I know it's obviously early, but I'm interested to hear.



Such a long way to go.

I feel like I could answer this differently tomorrow. Today, these five guys interest me:

Milroe, Mertz, Sanders, Ward, Ewers



Dart and Donovan Smith are also on my watch list for next fall (in addition to Beck and the names you listed)


Dart is sneakily my favorite. I'd add Gabriel, Beck, and Allar too.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: great stuff as always Sy  
bw in dc : 4/30/2024 8:15 pm : link
In comment 16501628 Mike in NY said:
Quote:

Dart and Donovan Smith are also on my watch list for next fall (in addition to Beck and the names you listed)


ajr shares some intel with me over email and he brought Smith's name up the other day. He's pretty dialed in and is usually on the mark with the market.
With respect  
Will Shine : 4/30/2024 8:16 pm : link
Schoen and Dabol (especially the latter) have a rep as good assessors and developer of QBs. Why do you think they passed on McCarthy?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: great stuff as always Sy  
Mike in NY : 4/30/2024 8:18 pm : link
In comment 16501650 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16501628 Mike in NY said:


Quote:



Dart and Donovan Smith are also on my watch list for next fall (in addition to Beck and the names you listed)



ajr shares some intel with me over email and he brought Smith's name up the other day. He's pretty dialed in and is usually on the mark with the market.


If Cam Ward takes the next step I want to say I was among the earliest to bring him to BBI’s attention!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: great stuff as always Sy  
bw in dc : 4/30/2024 8:20 pm : link
In comment 16501664 Mike in NY said:
Quote:

If Cam Ward takes the next step I want to say I was among the earliest to bring him to BBI’s attention!


Yeah, you were pumping him up at Incarnate Word.
RE: With respect  
Mike in NY : 4/30/2024 8:23 pm : link
In comment 16501656 Will Shine said:
Quote:
Schoen and Dabol (especially the latter) have a rep as good assessors and developer of QBs. Why do you think they passed on McCarthy?


Schoen is under pressure from Mara that he gave Jones the contract. As far as Daboll, I think he is skeptical of QB’s who did not need to pass for the team to win. He is not as obsessed with college numbers as he is about can they make the right reads and can they put the team on their back as “the guy.”
Thanks BleedBlue for the info.  
Marty in Albany : 4/30/2024 8:25 pm : link
Not offering anything this year would not be a serious offer.
Personally  
cjac : 4/30/2024 8:36 pm : link
I thought they did the right thing by taking Nabers and not reaching for any of the remaining QBs. I guess we will see what happens but I think JJM would have been over drafting a guy like they did with Jones
RE: Thanks Sy!  
Sy'56 : 4/30/2024 9:06 pm : link
In comment 16501387 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Apparently, Muasau really stood out at the Shrine Bowl practices.

***********

Eric Galko EricGalko

#Giants just got one of the best box linebackers in #UCLA’s Darius Muasau

425 tackles/40 TFL in career, including 10.5 TFLs and 4.0 sacks in 2024

Riser during @ShrineBowl week. Favorite of area scouts/coaches

Could challenge for a starting spot in time 👀

#ShrineBowlWhosNext


Yup director of shrine loves those shrine guys
RE: RE: RE: Total grade wise...  
Sy'56 : 4/30/2024 9:07 pm : link
In comment 16501395 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16501383 Sy'56 said:


Quote:




QB would have been the way to go - Pratt. To be honest - for the lone reason that you hope to get lucky.



Totally agree.

One more from me. I'm assuming you check out, at least on a cursory level, what each team did. If so, which teams really delivered this past weekend on executing their draft?


still working through but at this point I love what PIT, LAR, and CIN did.
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 4/30/2024 9:07 pm : link
In comment 16501406 Jaenyg said:
Quote:
Do your picks assume your earlier picks or the Giants earlier picks?


I always stick with what I did
RE: RE: Thx Sy…..  
Sy'56 : 4/30/2024 9:20 pm : link
In comment 16501431 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16501414 Simms11 said:


Quote:


Always enjoy reading your takes. Would be great to see which QBs we should be following for 2025, as well.



I'd love to hear your take on this too Sy! Right now I'm thinking Beck, Dart, Ward, Allar, Sanders, Leonard, Milroe, Gabriel


As long as you don't hold me to this list - my initial guys are

Carson Beck / Georgia
Quinn Ewers / Texas
Will Howard / Ohio State
Sheduer Sanders / Colorado
Cameron Ward / Miami
Jaxson Dart / Mississippi
Jalen Milroe / Alabama

are guys I would label as high ceiling
RE: …  
Sy'56 : 4/30/2024 9:21 pm : link
In comment 16501461 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Sy - from a “value” perspective and solely looking at it from draft position and not actual on field position, would you say this looks to be Schoen’s best draft on paper?


Tough to avoid bias and hindsight

But gun to my head I think the first draft in 2022 I was. more excited about. I thought Neal and Ezeudu could be quality starters.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Total grade wise...  
bw in dc : 4/30/2024 9:31 pm : link
In comment 16501767 Sy'56 said:
Quote:



still working through but at this point I love what PIT, LAR, and CIN did.


Snead and McVay are tremendous.

They had ten picks and used six for the OL and DL. And got some real quality.
RE: RE: RE: Thx Sy…..  
BleedBlue46 : 4/30/2024 9:45 pm : link
In comment 16501788 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16501431 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


In comment 16501414 Simms11 said:


Quote:


Always enjoy reading your takes. Would be great to see which QBs we should be following for 2025, as well.



I'd love to hear your take on this too Sy! Right now I'm thinking Beck, Dart, Ward, Allar, Sanders, Leonard, Milroe, Gabriel



As long as you don't hold me to this list - my initial guys are

Carson Beck / Georgia
Quinn Ewers / Texas
Will Howard / Ohio State
Sheduer Sanders / Colorado
Cameron Ward / Miami
Jaxson Dart / Mississippi
Jalen Milroe / Alabama

are guys I would label as high ceiling


I need to look into Will Howard more. Thanks for all you do Sy!
Xavier Rhodes  
BigBlueBuff : 4/30/2024 10:27 pm : link
Came to FSU as a WR and switched to CB.
No offense, but I hope the Giants had a better draft  
George from PA : 5/1/2024 3:23 am : link
His W-L record is extremely impressive, but JJM hype reminded me of Josh Rosen hype.

JJM does seem to love the game.....which at the end, might have been Rosen undoing.

Jones on the hot seat.....could surprise!

Thank you again
Thanks Sy  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/1/2024 7:38 am : link
Appreciate all your hard work and detailed draft thoughts. Agree about McCarthy and also acknowledging the longer term picture. Look forward to seeing the new TE you are high on.
If the draft went the way it did  
JT039 : 5/1/2024 8:53 am : link
I would have went

McCarthy
Adomni Mitchell

I think Mitchell is gonna be a stud if his sugar can be controlled.
Interesting that Sy thinks more of McCarthy than Nix  
GeofromNJ : 5/1/2024 9:16 am : link
Not saying Nix will be the better pro, but he strikes me as having more athletic ability and a better arm.
Thanks  
AcidTest : 5/1/2024 9:17 am : link
Sy! I think I would have taken your draft, but I am happy with what the Giants did. I just wish the Giants had a few more picks.
RE: If the draft went the way it did  
Mike in NY : 5/1/2024 9:19 am : link
In comment 16502190 JT039 said:
Quote:
I would have went

McCarthy
Adomni Mitchell

I think Mitchell is gonna be a stud if his sugar can be controlled.


I think that is easier said than done especially when he is getting second round money and playing under the big lights of NYC. I absolutely see how teams completely removed him from their draft boards.
RE: With respect  
Mike from Ohio : 5/1/2024 9:19 am : link
In comment 16501656 Will Shine said:
Quote:
Schoen and Dabol (especially the latter) have a rep as good assessors and developer of QBs. Why do you think they passed on McCarthy?


Is this based solely on the Bills drafting Josh Allen, a decision ultimately made by Billy Beane? Without Beane, you can argue they completely whiffed on the evaluation of Jones.

I am not sure I am ready to say Schoen is money when evaluating QBs. I give Daboll more credit for the development of Allen, and what he was able to squeeze out of Jones in 2022 by re-designing the offense to hide his deficiencies.
RE: RE: With respect  
Larry from WV : 5/1/2024 9:23 am : link
In comment 16501680 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16501656 Will Shine said:


Quote:


Schoen and Dabol (especially the latter) have a rep as good assessors and developer of QBs. Why do you think they passed on McCarthy?



Schoen is under pressure from Mara that he gave Jones the contract. As far as Daboll, I think he is skeptical of QB’s who did not need to pass for the team to win. He is not as obsessed with college numbers as he is about can they make the right reads and can they put the team on their back as “the guy.”


Yet, Mara was willing to allow them to trade multiple 1st round picks to get Drake? As far as Daboll focusing too much on numbers and not projecting what a QB could be.... What in his history leads you to that conclusion.

Maybe the answer is a lot easier. JJM has a much lower ceiling than Drake Maye. He might have a higher floor but even his comps given out were mid-level or worse NFL QBs. Several sites had his Comp as Jones with less running ability.

I desperately wanted a QB, but this was a 3 QB draft at the top by most of the evaluators I follow and JJM had a significantly lower grade. I like the majority of the rest of Sy's draft but I'm out on QBs who don't have a chance of being top 10 in the league.

RE: Interesting that Sy thinks more of McCarthy than Nix  
Mike in NY : 5/1/2024 9:28 am : link
In comment 16502236 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
Not saying Nix will be the better pro, but he strikes me as having more athletic ability and a better arm.


Not really sure Nix is more athletic and the arm is different but not necessarily better. Before the draft someone posted a Reddit link to comprehensive stats on all of the top 6 QB's, including under pressure, and Nix and Penix noticeably looked bad. Penix it was more turnovers chucking it down the field under pressure. With Nix the percentage of screen passes and short throws were not sustainable at NFL level. When he was in a more traditional offense at Auburn he looked like a Day 3 pick on potential alone. McCarthy had really good numbers under pressure and also had by far the best conversion rate of 3rd and 7+ situations. The real issue with McCarthy is that the team was able to win regardless of how he performed and that concerns me going forward because how will he react when there is a game that a team needs him to win 52-49? Or a game like Eli Manning faced against San Francisco in NFC Conference Championship?

I have my own issues with how the New York Giants approach QB's. Namely they only seem to take if they are absolutely in love with the guy and he is BPA. In my opinion that is plain wrong because of how dependent teams are on QB play. Especially in Round 1, if you have a QB with a Round 1 grade when you are selecting, you should not bypass him unless you are absolutely set at starting QB (which the Giants are not).
RE: RE: RE: With respect  
Mike in NY : 5/1/2024 9:33 am : link
In comment 16502254 Larry from WV said:
Quote:
In comment 16501680 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 16501656 Will Shine said:


Quote:


Schoen and Dabol (especially the latter) have a rep as good assessors and developer of QBs. Why do you think they passed on McCarthy?



Schoen is under pressure from Mara that he gave Jones the contract. As far as Daboll, I think he is skeptical of QB’s who did not need to pass for the team to win. He is not as obsessed with college numbers as he is about can they make the right reads and can they put the team on their back as “the guy.”



Yet, Mara was willing to allow them to trade multiple 1st round picks to get Drake? As far as Daboll focusing too much on numbers and not projecting what a QB could be.... What in his history leads you to that conclusion.

Maybe the answer is a lot easier. JJM has a much lower ceiling than Drake Maye. He might have a higher floor but even his comps given out were mid-level or worse NFL QBs. Several sites had his Comp as Jones with less running ability.

I desperately wanted a QB, but this was a 3 QB draft at the top by most of the evaluators I follow and JJM had a significantly lower grade. I like the majority of the rest of Sy's draft but I'm out on QBs who don't have a chance of being top 10 in the league.


You have my Daboll comments inverted. He does not care about college stats like winning record, TD/INT ratio, etc. What is important to Daboll are tools and intelligence. Someone like Josh Allen was making the correct reads at Wyoming, but because of bad targets and terrible mechanics the numbers don't reflect it. It is also why he probably disliked someone like Malik Willis. You watch Willis's tape at Liberty it was one read and run. There were a number of big plays to be made if he just scanned the field.
RE: If the draft went the way it did  
bw in dc : 5/1/2024 9:53 am : link
In comment 16502190 JT039 said:
Quote:
I would have went

McCarthy
Adomni Mitchell

I think Mitchell is gonna be a stud if his sugar can be controlled.


Matt Miller, ESPN draft expert, did a post-draft analysis of the 100 best picks.

He had Mitchell the 7th overall best pick.
RE: Only thing we disagree  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/1/2024 9:54 am : link
In comment 16501358 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
On Jones. I wanted McCarthy because I don't believe Jones can stay healthy. If we protect Jones, with these playmakers, he can execute this offense just fine. The last few years we are the absolute worst in explosive plays. I am excited.

You don't even know what offense they want to run with Daboll calling plays, Barkley off the roster, and Jones coming off an ACL (not to mention the early indications last season that the league had broken down enough NYG 2022 tape to take away DJ's preferred tendencies), so saying "he can execute this offense just fine" is a load of shit, with all due respect.
RE: RE: If the draft went the way it did  
Eric on Li : 5/1/2024 11:03 am : link
In comment 16502296 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16502190 JT039 said:


Quote:


I would have went

McCarthy
Adomni Mitchell

I think Mitchell is gonna be a stud if his sugar can be controlled.



Matt Miller, ESPN draft expert, did a post-draft analysis of the 100 best picks.

He had Mitchell the 7th overall best pick.


Mitchell's talent is obvious, as is always the case with guys that drop the questions are ones we dont know the answers to.

as great of a "value" as he was, even the team that picked him passed on him 7 picks earlier.
Wow, I was really sleeping on Will Howard.  
BleedBlue46 : 5/1/2024 11:49 am : link
He's got more of a Josh Allen body than Maye. Will be very interesting to see how he does at Ohio st.
Don't sleep on  
Dirt1 : 5/1/2024 12:44 pm : link
Nussmier. Maybe get him in the second. all aboard the Nuss Bus!
RE: Wow, I was really sleeping on Will Howard.  
bw in dc : 5/1/2024 1:39 pm : link
In comment 16502480 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
He's got more of a Josh Allen body than Maye. Will be very interesting to see how he does at Ohio st.


He's a pretty good player who was getting better and better as K-State. Day prefers a dual threat, and Howard has pretty good mobility. But there are accuracy issues.

I don't feel great about this arm. His motion looks more like a push than a free-flowing throw.
great work Sy thanks so much. I have 1 question for you:  
Victor in CT : 5/1/2024 2:03 pm : link
You ranked Odunze above Nabers, yet you selected Nabers. Why?

Personally I'd have taken Odunze over Nabers any day. Bigger, stronger, better hands, and catches the ball in traffic as you pointed out in your preview. And a top flight person too. NYG would actually have a go to guy in the red zone for the first time in ages.

I'd have been ok if they took JJ and Franklin as you did.
RE: great work Sy thanks so much. I have 1 question for you:  
Sy'56 : 5/1/2024 2:16 pm : link
In comment 16502646 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
You ranked Odunze above Nabers, yet you selected Nabers. Why?

Personally I'd have taken Odunze over Nabers any day. Bigger, stronger, better hands, and catches the ball in traffic as you pointed out in your preview. And a top flight person too. NYG would actually have a go to guy in the red zone for the first time in ages.

I'd have been ok if they took JJ and Franklin as you did.


Hey Victor

I didn't choose WR at 6 - I went McCarthy.
RE: RE: great work Sy thanks so much. I have 1 question for you:  
Victor in CT : 5/1/2024 2:16 pm : link
In comment 16502669 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16502646 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


You ranked Odunze above Nabers, yet you selected Nabers. Why?

Personally I'd have taken Odunze over Nabers any day. Bigger, stronger, better hands, and catches the ball in traffic as you pointed out in your preview. And a top flight person too. NYG would actually have a go to guy in the red zone for the first time in ages.

I'd have been ok if they took JJ and Franklin as you did.



Hey Victor

I didn't choose WR at 6 - I went McCarthy.


Duh on my part. sorry Sy.
RE: I do not understand the Giants' reasoning about JJM.  
Milton : 5/1/2024 2:21 pm : link
In comment 16501506 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
They wanted and needed a QB and would have given up the house to get Maye,
If they were willing to give up the house to get Maye, he would be on the Giants instead of the Patriots. And the fact that they passed on Penix and JJM tells us that they weren't so hard up to add a QB. If there was a QB worthy of the 6th overall pick, they would've picked him simply because that's what you do when you have such an opportunity and your current starter has a history of injuries.
Quote:
There must have been something missing from JJM and the other QBs that Maye has. I'd like to know what that something is.
More talent (according to their scouts).
I would've picked Nabers  
JonC : 5/1/2024 2:41 pm : link
Nubin and Sainistril were very close for me, otherwise I prefer your draft, Sy.
RE: RE: I do not understand the Giants' reasoning about JJM.  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/1/2024 2:42 pm : link
In comment 16502676 Milton said:
Quote:
If they were willing to give up the house to get Maye, he would be on the Giants instead of the Patriots.

As usual with you lately, Milton, there is absolutely nothing to support this.

You can offer your entire draft class for the next three years and your firstborn child on top of that, and the seller has no obligation to sell.

No one's DJ enthusiasm was validated no matter how much your little cult wants to believe otherwise.
RE: I would've picked Nabers  
Eric on Li : 5/1/2024 2:52 pm : link
In comment 16502698 JonC said:
Quote:
Nubin and Sainistril were very close for me, otherwise I prefer your draft, Sy.


i wouldnt have preferred 2 more wrs (washington, franklin) to phillips, tracy. just dont have enough targets to go around. mayeb if they'd traded slayton for a pick or player they liked, then use a pick to replace slayton with a younger cheaper player bc value lined up with franklin but slayton wasnt bringing back a day 2 pick.

i liked wingo too but im guessing there's a reason he fell as far as he did and learning more about tracy id also choose him over wingo if i knew then what i knew now.
RE: RE: RE: I do not understand the Giants' reasoning about JJM.  
Milton : 5/1/2024 3:23 pm : link
In comment 16502700 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16502676 Milton said:


Quote:


If they were willing to give up the house to get Maye, he would be on the Giants instead of the Patriots.


As usual with you lately, Milton, there is absolutely nothing to support this.

You can offer your entire draft class for the next three years and your firstborn child on top of that, and the seller has no obligation to sell.
There's nothing to support that they were willing to give up the house.
RE: RE: I would've picked Nabers  
JonC : 5/1/2024 3:34 pm : link
In comment 16502712 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16502698 JonC said:


Quote:


Nubin and Sainistril were very close for me, otherwise I prefer your draft, Sy.



i wouldnt have preferred 2 more wrs (washington, franklin) to phillips, tracy. just dont have enough targets to go around. mayeb if they'd traded slayton for a pick or player they liked, then use a pick to replace slayton with a younger cheaper player bc value lined up with franklin but slayton wasnt bringing back a day 2 pick.

i liked wingo too but im guessing there's a reason he fell as far as he did and learning more about tracy id also choose him over wingo if i knew then what i knew now.


I'm not a big fan of Slayton or the smurf over the long view. Andru's got some juice and hopefully he'll prove to be a good pick.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I do not understand the Giants' reasoning about JJM.  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/1/2024 4:00 pm : link
In comment 16502745 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 16502700 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16502676 Milton said:


Quote:


If they were willing to give up the house to get Maye, he would be on the Giants instead of the Patriots.


As usual with you lately, Milton, there is absolutely nothing to support this.

You can offer your entire draft class for the next three years and your firstborn child on top of that, and the seller has no obligation to sell.

There's nothing to support that they were willing to give up the house.

That may be true, but you'll note that, unlike you, I never said there was.
When you watch the live video of the pick  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/1/2024 4:04 pm : link
And the cut to the draft room, look at Daboll's face.

He seemed as happy as a coach who got exactly what he wanted.
RE: Fantastic write up! Appreciate all the hard work!  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/1/2024 4:13 pm : link
In comment 16501619 uncledave said:
Quote:
I agree it was misdirection on the QB front. If Maye was your GUY you’d find a way to make it happen… they didn’t, then passed on JJM. QB next year is definitely a consideration, let’s see how bad this year goes.

It was a better draft than I anticipated it would amount to be. Not my guys but I’m not mad at it. One of the best drafts top to bottom that this team has produced in a long while, encouraging. I’m thrilled we didn’t end up taking a QB early.

I also made my own picks as we went along, my results would have been:
Rome Odunze
Mike Hall Jr
Khyree Jackson
Tanor Bortolini
Joe Milton
Brenden Rice

Always a fun time every season- particularly with all of your insights. Looking forward to next year!



These posts are just weird. If you asked Sophia Vergara out 10000 times she’s still saying no. But somehow the Pats the Bears are going to trade their future so guys like you can be happy’”they made it happen” by trading 5 first Round picks for the next half decade. Moronic at best
RE: RE: Wow, I was really sleeping on Will Howard.  
BleedBlue46 : 5/1/2024 8:49 pm : link
In comment 16502619 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16502480 BleedBlue46 said:


Quote:


He's got more of a Josh Allen body than Maye. Will be very interesting to see how he does at Ohio st.



He's a pretty good player who was getting better and better as K-State. Day prefers a dual threat, and Howard has pretty good mobility. But there are accuracy issues.

I don't feel great about this arm. His motion looks more like a push than a free-flowing throw.


I get that, seems like a quick release though.
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