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What Schoen says vs. his actions (long post)

Spartan10 : 5/3/2024 5:15 pm

I grew up in upstate New York and worked in New York for a few years out of college. In my twenties, my wife and I moved to Florida. Working in Florida was a culture shock in terms of southern politeness, hospitality, and cheerfulness when coming from New York.

When you work in New York, people from what I remember are more apt to be straightforward, gruff, and ornery when they are not happy with your work product. It is easy to know where you stand. Working in Florida, I have had executives be overly polite when giving me feedback to the point where I almost didn’t even realize they were annoyed with what I was doing.

Schoen is from the Midwest (Indiana), I have interacted with some leaders and executives from the Midwest. They seem to have similar politeness, cheerfulness, etc. That doesn’t mean they don’t get pissed and make changes, it just means they are not going throw some epic New York temper tantrum when a mistake gets made, even when a major mistake gets made, like the Jones contract.

Schoen reminds me of the executives I work with from the South and the Midwest. He is cheerful, polite, outgoing, but its hard to know what he is thinking. He comes across as earnest and straightforward in interviews, but I think he is smart enough to use his demeanor to hide his intentions.

For example, all this talk of Saquon being a Giant forever and then in free agency this year Schoen doesn’t even make him an offer (which I was fine with by the way). And then my personal favorite from Schoen "We don't expect to trade Kadarius..". LOL. So I think we really need to look at what Schoen actually does vs. what he says.

All this leads me to my main point which is Schoen saying “Daniel Jones is our expected starting QB and is under contract X amount of years…Blah…Blah…Blah…”. I think these statements are meaningless. Let’s see what Daboll and Schoen actually do with Jones this season and at the end of the season.

If a major publicly traded company makes a big investment that loses a bunch of money, the CEO isn’t going to get on the earnings call with investors and say, “Oh by the way… we invested in XYZ and it was a really bad decision… so now we are going to sell that division at a loss…” The CEO is going to talk about the positives and the bad investment will be quietly sold or written off.

I expect something similar with Daniel. If he doesn’t play a lot better, I think they will try to quietly move away from him after next season. Schoen's knows the importance of QB play. He is not stupid. I trust he will end the Jones love affair when the time comes.
you may be right  
Darwinian : 5/3/2024 5:22 pm : link
I think you are probably right. Nevertheless, the handling of the QB room is incompetent. They should have drafted a QB. even a developmental QB would be better than Jones. And then released Jones when he was cleared to play.
I like Schoen  
Fishmanjim57 : 5/3/2024 5:38 pm : link
The trouble he inherited when he was named GM of the Giants was a team without an offensive line, he also had a WR who was in loony land, and a RB who wanted a multiple year contract, and he had a massively overrated QB that the co-owner was in love with.
The loony WR was traded for a draft pick that was traded for a veteran TE that is perennially injured.
The OL remains a major question that he may have improved this year through FA signings of veteran players.
The Giants were in a position for the 2024 draft in which they could have traded up to correct the ongoing QB trouble. They didn't trade up, so the Giants fans will be subjected to more years of watching a very bad QB under center.
I wish Jones was a post June 1st cut. Pay him off and close the chapter!
with regard to Joe Schoen  
dd in Mass : 5/3/2024 6:02 pm : link
I feel very comfortable saying that has seen enough from DJ to know the end is near. Unfortunately for Schoen, his first year the Giants and DJ overachieved. He reversed course, signing DJ to a long term deal. Thankfully there is a window after the
2nd year.

So he's tried to solidify the OL, bring in some weapons and give DJ his last chance and quite possibly Lock a shot at succeeding. If the Giants get into the playoffs, it's possible we'll see DJ and or Lock next season.

It's more likely we'll be in the QB market with a vet and a draft prospect. The rebuild ends up taking an extra year
Good post.  
GiantTuff1 : 5/3/2024 6:05 pm : link
The conspiracist in me is worried that Mara hired someone he thought he could run over and use as a yes-man, take advantage of that “politeness” to get him to do basically what he wants.

I hope Schoen shows us he and this organization have backbone. As long as Jones is on this roster it looks like status quo to me.

Just how I feel.
It would be beyond refreshing  
GiantTuff1 : 5/3/2024 6:10 pm : link
to hear Schoen flat out say they did make a mistake and are correcting it now and wish Daniel well.

The very act of cutting Jones would spell the dawn of a new day and most importantly provide the fans that elusive 4-letter word, HOPE. A sign that things are actually going to be different.
As someone who grew up in Queens and lived in Manhattan for over a dec  
George from PA : 5/3/2024 6:17 pm : link
I would disagree with your general assessment of NYers.

Must people who are gruff, I surmise are people who have a hard time with the pace of NY, who are usually not NYers.

Real NYers love the pace, love the life and are usually very helpful to others.

Now. It is easily to lose that pace, as I can no longer keep that pace being out of NYC for so long.

Regarding Schoen, I should hope he doesn't divulge his intentions
Thoughtful post.  
solarmike : 5/3/2024 6:24 pm : link

I grew up in the Finger Lakes and courtesy is in my DNA.
RE: you may be right  
mfjmfj : 5/3/2024 6:35 pm : link
In comment 16505612 Darwinian said:
Quote:
I think you are probably right. Nevertheless, the handling of the QB room is incompetent. They should have drafted a QB. even a developmental QB would be better than Jones. And then released Jones when he was cleared to play.


Releasing Jones. A move worthy of Dave Gettlman and should lead to an immediate firing.
I think you see and interpret  
dancing blue bear : 5/3/2024 6:43 pm : link
what you want to see.

much like most people.
RE: I think you see and interpret  
Spider56 : 5/3/2024 7:15 pm : link
In comment 16505652 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
what you want to see.

much like most people.


Agree…I think the great majority of us see and hear what we want; especially when it comes to sports. For me, the Giants are supposed to be a good diversion from reality. I choose to only see and hear the good. I’m tied to DJ for as long as he’s our QB. If a player is traded, leaves or is cut, I take them out of the picture completely. Guys who retire as Giants are there forever.
Schoen  
kickoff : 5/3/2024 7:31 pm : link
Did JS say he wanted SB to be a Giant for life? I don't remember that.
RE: It would be beyond refreshing  
Scooter185 : 5/3/2024 7:38 pm : link
In comment 16505637 GiantTuff1 said:
Quote:
to hear Schoen flat out say they did make a mistake and are correcting it now and wish Daniel well.

The very act of cutting Jones would spell the dawn of a new day and most importantly provide the fans that elusive 4-letter word, HOPE. A sign that things are actually going to be different.


Exactly. A bad start to the season and any remnant of hope vanishes with Jones at QB. That's part of why I don't think they can survive a bad season from Jones.
Claps  
Thegratefulhead : 5/3/2024 8:17 pm : link
You should always focus on actions and ignore the noise.

What happened this offseason?

Schoen signed a less accomplished back up QB

We did not draft a QB when we had opportunities to do so.

We know what Schoen thinks about Jones.
RE: you may be right  
Brown_Hornet : 5/3/2024 8:21 pm : link
In comment 16505612 Darwinian said:
Quote:
I think you are probably right. Nevertheless, the handling of the QB room is incompetent. They should have drafted a QB. even a developmental QB would be better than Jones. And then released Jones when he was cleared to play.
it's not so much that I disagree but what is your experience evaluating quarterbacks at the professional level?
What is your experience managing a budget in the hundreds of millions of dollars?

What makes you so sure you know right from wrong in this instance?

They know  
mittenedman : 5/3/2024 8:25 pm : link
they've never given him a good supporting cast. For 5 years, Darius Slayton ends up the #1. OL gets the shit kicked out of it. Every Giants fan knows that and the decision-makers know it too. More than some Mara obsession, that is the reason he's still here beyond the contract itself.
Yes but...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/3/2024 8:29 pm : link
... If you live in the south you know exactly where you stand with a southerner.
Spartan10  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/3/2024 9:05 pm : link
Good post.

My gut feeling was that Schoen was regurgitating talking points in his few offseason interviews (January presser, Combine presser, pre-draft presser). They seemed nuanced, bordering on lawyer-speak.
RE: They know  
BillT : 5/3/2024 9:45 pm : link
In comment 16505714 mittenedman said:
Quote:
they've never given him a good supporting cast. For 5 years, Darius Slayton ends up the #1. OL gets the shit kicked out of it. Every Giants fan knows that and the decision-makers know it too. More than some Mara obsession, that is the reason he's still here beyond the contract itself.

This is a borderline reasonable observation about “he who shall not be named.” I wasn’t sure this was allowed anymore.
.  
Bill E : 5/3/2024 11:03 pm : link
What you said:
"All this leads me to my main point which is Schoen saying “Daniel Jones is our expected starting QB and is under contract X amount of years"

What Schoen said:
Schoen: “That’s where we are. That’s what we’re going to move forward with this season. Daniel is still under contract for three more years.
“As it sits today, that’s where we are.”

Everyone focuses on the first part of that quote, and completely ignores the second part.
But, he didn't say "and that's where we'll be for the next three years."
He said, "As it sits today, that's where we are"

In my opinion, there's nothing really hidden there. He's saying that DJ's job is not guaranteed beyond "today"
Not part of his job  
jc in c-ville : 5/4/2024 1:39 am : link
To clarify his feelings to the fans because they disagree. And, he couldn’t give a F less.
Nice post Spartan10  
ThomasG : 5/4/2024 8:39 am : link
And well articulated.

Although good luck with "...they will try to quietly move away from him (DJ)". If the franchise moves in this direction, nothing of this will remotely resemble quiet.
Jones is still here  
Dave on the UWS : 5/5/2024 8:42 am : link
because NE wouldn’t trade the #3 pick and
Nabers grade was so high there weren’t going to take a non 1st rd graded QB (just to take one) and lose out on an elite prospect.

So in essence, Jones got lucky, for now. He still has to show he should start over Lock- not a given.
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