In the spirit adding some variety to our DJ discussions, how about us coming up with a list of his DJ's strengths and weaknesses the way nfl analysts do for players prior to the Draft.
I have a list, but I'm not confident that it is either accurate or complete. Please feel free to agree or disagree with my list, and add your own strengths and weaknesses. With what we're paying DJ, he deserves a proper list.
Strengths
1. He protects the ball and stopped fumbling
2. He reduced his interceptions
3. He is hard-working
4. He does not complain
5. He has no significant character flaws.
Weaknesses
1. He can't throw deep.
2. He is not decisive and holds the ball too long
3. He can't read defenses anymore
4. He can't run anymore because of his injuries
5. He's gun-shy (because of all the sacks)
6. He can't make all the throws.
I also don’t agree that he can’t throw deep, but that he won’t throw deep. And I LOL at the notion that he can’t read defenses any more, as if he somehow forgot how to.
To be fair, im not sure that post snap reads were ever a strength. However, I think that is the most frustrating part. Sometimes he sees "it" but doesn't pull the trigger. Or he is late, despite staring down the open receiver.
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very much can throw deep. The issue lately has been either his unwillingness to pull the trigger combined with the OL not giving him time to do so.
He's dead last in amount of time to get rid of the ball. It takes more than 2 seconds for receivers to get down the field. And of course he's unwilling to throw deep, because he's under attack from a porous line and if he doesn't get rid of it, it's another sack. So, his option is to get rid of the ball before a play can unfold. Also, take into consideration that he does exactly what he's told, and he was told to cut down on turnovers.
There's a lot of all 22 video of him missing open downfield throws. This season's results will be based on his ability to throw downfield.
Inaccurate passer, limits WR YAC
His timing delivering the pass is too slow for the NFL. That’s the result of both his poor field awareness and his slow delivery motion.
Assuming he stays healthy, and he can reverse DCS, I expect him to look like a decent NFL QB this season. This is largely due to a competent OL and a very much improved receiver room.
Even if he does look like a decent NFL QB, I also think that we should look for his replacement.
With the lack of weapons and the horrible offensive line of course he's throwing the deep ball less. How do people not understand this.
Inaccurate passer, limits WR YAC
His timing delivering the pass is too slow for the NFL. That’s the result of both his poor field awareness and his slow delivery motion.
Good post. These are reasons not to expect a big rookie year from Nabers.
Remember, Toney was supposed to be a YAC monster too.
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Can’t maneuver in the pocket
Inaccurate passer, limits WR YAC
His timing delivering the pass is too slow for the NFL. That’s the result of both his poor field awareness and his slow delivery motion.
Good post. These are reasons not to expect a big rookie year from Nabers.
Remember, Toney was supposed to be a YAC monster too.
You are exhaustingly predictable.
What did Toneys YAC production look like after he went to the Chiefs? I'm not going to look it up but the guy is just a train wreck and it doesn't matter who the QB is.
There are so many legit concerns with DJ. Toney sucking isn't one of them.
(...and before I'm called a member of the DJFC, I was all for taking a QB this year)
This!
It’s just so depressing. It’s like the Giants are trying to turn off their fans.
Rehashing the same old stuff doesn't advance the cause, as no amount of griping is going to change the coaches' minds. Actual performance will and should.
Why don't we all chill on this for a bit?
This is the equivalent to walking up to a group of people at a party and telling them they need to stop discussing a certain topic because YOU are tired of hearing about it.
Instead of telling others what they should and shouldn't be discussing, show some self control and ignore threads that don't interest you. It's not that difficult.
If you included contracts, he would go undrafted. He is a massive negative value. You'd be way better off with a random guy on a minimum.
If you assume properly paid contracts, he'd probably be around 50. He's a good backup, but he has no upside, so teams would rather pick guys who have a chance of developing into something
2. Slow processor
3. Stares down first read, does not go through reads
4. Subpar arm strength
5. Settles for underneath routes, does not push the ball vertically
6. Simply does not see the field or read the defense, ( never audibles or adjusts protection)
6. Lack of leadership skills
7. Wet noodle personality
8. Costs 40m+ against the cap
2. Slow processor
3. Stares down first read, does not go through reads
4. Subpar arm strength
5. Settles for underneath routes, does not push the ball vertically
6. Simply does not see the field or read the defense, ( never audibles or adjusts protection)
6. Lack of leadership skills
7. Wet noodle personality
8. Costs 40m+ against the cap
4, 6, 7, 8 are simply not true or irrelevant in evaluating his ability.
2, 3 and 6 all fall under the same category. You're basically listing the same defects 3 x.
Again, I wanted a qb in the 1st and I'm rooting for Drew Lock to get a fair shot but the pendulum is swinging where people are now just going overboard.
ie, Toney wasn't a successful yac receiver because of Jones's inaccuracy.
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Why don't we all give it a rest and wait until training camp and see what we've got. I'm sure that if Daniel Jones can't play or can't outplay Drew Lock, he will sit. Period. There are enough variables, such as play selection, the OL, receivers and running game that will come into play.
Rehashing the same old stuff doesn't advance the cause, as no amount of griping is going to change the coaches' minds. Actual performance will and should.
Why don't we all chill on this for a bit?
This is the equivalent to walking up to a group of people at a party and telling them they need to stop discussing a certain topic because YOU are tired of hearing about it.
Instead of telling others what they should and shouldn't be discussing, show some self control and ignore threads that don't interest you. It's not that difficult.
+1. The number of people who click into threads clearly labeled as discussing Daniel Jones just to post "Stop talking about Daniel Jones" is very weird.
I don't enjoy fantasy football threads. Instead of opening them all to criticize people for discussing it, I simply don't open them. It's really easy to do.
The contract is done and so is the 2024 draft, whether we like it or not. Other teams have moved on from bad contracts and poor draft choices and so will we, if need be. Short of buying the team or being hired to coach it, the arguments pro and con will continue to rage.
This all harkens back to my very young years when the on-going arguments in NYC revolved around who was better Mays, Mantle or Duke Snider. As eventually proven on the field, it was Willie.
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2022 Deep Ball Accuracy
NAME PCT RATE
Daniel Jones 67.2 92.5
Patrick Mahomes 67.1 105.2
Matt Ryan 67.0 83.9
Tom Brady 66.8 90.7
In 2021 he was more accurate at 20plus yards than Josh Allen.
Cherry picking small sample size data won't won you many debates. Jones doesn't throw deep because he's mistake prone and when he increases the volume of vertical passes his picks go ip dramatically.
Do you have any data to back up your claim? (INT numbers on 15+ yard throws)
It’s just so depressing. It’s like the Giants are trying to turn off their fans.
They all fucked up badly on the contract. Schoen should have had the brains and balls to tell Mara they needed to franchise tag him and let Barkley walk or pay him the 4 million extra. Now, we still owe DJ 70 million minimum over the next 2 seasons. Nabers was a top of the board talent with a truly elite ceiling (could turn into one of the best in the league) at a premium position of dire need. It's not rocket science. Ideally, we will get a good rookie qb in rd1 of 2025 draft and the rookie will have a good supporting cast to thrive.
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In comment 16505990 varco said:
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Why don't we all give it a rest and wait until training camp and see what we've got. I'm sure that if Daniel Jones can't play or can't outplay Drew Lock, he will sit. Period. There are enough variables, such as play selection, the OL, receivers and running game that will come into play.
Rehashing the same old stuff doesn't advance the cause, as no amount of griping is going to change the coaches' minds. Actual performance will and should.
Why don't we all chill on this for a bit?
This is the equivalent to walking up to a group of people at a party and telling them they need to stop discussing a certain topic because YOU are tired of hearing about it.
Instead of telling others what they should and shouldn't be discussing, show some self control and ignore threads that don't interest you. It's not that difficult.
+1. The number of people who click into threads clearly labeled as discussing Daniel Jones just to post "Stop talking about Daniel Jones" is very weird.
I don't enjoy fantasy football threads. Instead of opening them all to criticize people for discussing it, I simply don't open them. It's really easy to do.
Except literally every threat IS about Jones and even those that technically aren't usually devolve into one about the QB. Personally I'm all for a moratorium on Jones threads unless there is something genuinely new to talk about. Its almost like someone says 'hey we haven't had a thread blaming Mara for keeping him around' for a while and off you all go.
Since you clearly have JTSD i advise you to steer clear of them
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Ideally, we will get a good rookie qb in rd1 of 2025 draft and the rookie will have a good supporting cast to thrive.
But we live in reality. More thna likely we will be better this year so teh dratft pick won't be as high which means we will be fartehr away from getting teh rookei QB we would like.
It’s more than enough to break many, and if he isn’t mentally tough enough to come fresh to the table this year, he not only won’t start the season as the starter, he may be done.
(I still think he should retire because of the neck injury).
I wouldn’t assume we even see the 2022 DJ again. After 2 serious injuries last year, he’s NOT that guy anymore. He may be too gun shy or two worried (subconsciously) about protecting himself, to be effective to any degree.
1. He protects the ball and stopped fumbling
2. He reduced his interceptions
3. He is hard-working
4. He does not complain
5. He has no significant character flaws.
6. He is acurate when given time.
7. He is a deceptive ball handler (Fake handoff)
8. He has shown the ability to win in the 4th quarter.
Weaknesses
1. He can't throw deep. (Not a strength but not horrible)
2. He is not decisive and holds the ball too long
3. He can't read defenses anymore
4. He can't run anymore because of his injuries (Not known)
5. He's gun-shy (because of all the sacks) HUGE ISSUE!!!!!
6. He can't make all the throws. (Too vague - what throws?)
To me 2,3, and 4 of the weaknesses are the core of the problem and they are related. Putting it simply: If he is shell-shocked then he is done. If not, then he has a chance to be better given the improvements in his supporting cast.
I have some hope, but a lot of concerns.
1. He protects the ball and stopped fumbling
2. He reduced his interceptions
3. He is hard-working
4. He does not complain
5. He has no significant character flaws.
6. He is acurate when given time.
7. He is a deceptive ball handler (Fake handoff)
8. He has shown the ability to win in the 4th quarter.
Weaknesses
1. He can't throw deep. (Not a strength but not horrible)
2. He is not decisive and holds the ball too long
3. He can't read defenses anymore
4. He can't run anymore because of his injuries (Not known)
5. He's gun-shy (because of all the sacks) HUGE ISSUE!!!!!
6. He can't make all the throws. (Too vague - what throws?)
To me 2,3, and 4 of the weaknesses are the core of the problem and they are related. Putting it simply: If he is shell-shocked then he is done. If not, then he has a chance to be better given the improvements in his supporting cast.
I have some hope, but a lot of concerns.
So you question most of his listed weaknesses but none of the supposed strengths? No offense but that screams that you have some bias here…
NAME PCT RATE
Daniel Jones 67.2 92.5
Patrick Mahomes 67.1 105.2
Matt Ryan 67.0 83.9
Tom Brady 66.8 90.7
In 2021 he was more accurate at 20plus yards than Josh Allen.
It is amazing that you guys saw Devito and Taylor run better passing offenses than Jones last season and still deny the evidence in front of your own eyes.
Rehashing the same old stuff doesn't advance the cause, as no amount of griping is going to change the coaches' minds. Actual performance will and should.
Why don't we all chill on this for a bit?
BRILLIENT POST!!!!!
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Strengths
1. He protects the ball and stopped fumbling
2. He reduced his interceptions
3. He is hard-working
4. He does not complain
5. He has no significant character flaws.
6. He is acurate when given time.
7. He is a deceptive ball handler (Fake handoff)
8. He has shown the ability to win in the 4th quarter.
Weaknesses
1. He can't throw deep. (Not a strength but not horrible)
2. He is not decisive and holds the ball too long
3. He can't read defenses anymore
4. He can't run anymore because of his injuries (Not known)
5. He's gun-shy (because of all the sacks) HUGE ISSUE!!!!!
6. He can't make all the throws. (Too vague - what throws?)
To me 2,3, and 4 of the weaknesses are the core of the problem and they are related. Putting it simply: If he is shell-shocked then he is done. If not, then he has a chance to be better given the improvements in his supporting cast.
I have some hope, but a lot of concerns.
So you question most of his listed weaknesses but none of the supposed strengths? No offense but that screams that you have some bias here…
I added 6, 7, 8. 1-5 are not really disputed by anyone as far as I know. You can dispute 6, but I would respectfully disagree. I think he throws a good ball when given time. He rarely misses WRs with his throws. He misses them by NOT seeing them. He does not anticipate players who are going to come open. He appeared to be shell shocked last year.
IMO A lot of the things holding him back are in his head. He needs to have the confidence to throw before the player gets open. Maybe better receivers will help with this. He needs to see the field better. Maybe a better OL will help with this. He has been taught to play safe, not to lose football. He needs to improve his ability to attack and play to win. Whether he can do that without turning the ball over more is a big question. Whether he is shell-shocked is a big question. Whether he can stay healthy is a big question. I think the coaches will play the best player at QB this year. The attempt to trade up shows that they are not married to DJ anymore. If he is not good enough to beat out Lock (who is not that good) then we are in for a long season.
We KNOW what the Giants believe.
Based on their actions.
They still believe he is a franchise QB.
They are clearly attempting to create a situation where he can succeed instead of replacing him or acquiring legitimate competition.
Why?
Owner mandate?
Or
That cannot evaluate QBs in the building while knowing the play call, have access to helmet communications and are responsible for installing the game plan.
Or
They believe if you protect him and give him actual NFL players to throw to, he can succeed in this offense.
All of BBI would have been fine if the Giants drafted a QB. There were a few people on BBI said if the we did not draft a QB we were doomed. They threw a toddler like fit when things did not go their way.
I have seen people post some form of the “The worst thing the Giants did was win games in 2022” repeated.
As fans we don’t mix.
Oil and water.
The draft is projection only, completely uncertain.
NEVER LOSE GAMES OR REGRET A WIN.( I loved 2022)
I have seen enough of Jones to know he could win if provided with average offensive talent. I believe his skill set plays.
If you do not, fine, not gonna die on that hill.
I don’t think Jones can stay healthy so I would have drafted competition in rd 1.
I don’t have his medicals so I cannot die on that hill either.
I am very excited for the upcoming season.
I get to be happy from now until then because I have something to look forward to.
My only danger is disappointment.
I would be disappointed anyways if the season is bad so the hopeful option really has no cost for me.
The time between now and the start of the season is filled with hope.
Would not have it any other way.
Historically speaking:
- his deep ball has been among the top of the league.
- There weren't throws that he 'couldn't make'
- He made some great throws on the run that other QBs probably couldn't make and won some games soley on his athleticism.
It remains to be seen if the lasting effects of the injuries will cause him to continue to regress. Or have an effect on his mobility...
I'd love to see him have a couple of games where he stands in a clean pocket for 3+ seconds before we kick him to the curb. I don't believe 2022 was a mirage... but 2023 was a disaster...
He took some brutal hits. If he stands clean and still is missing reads and throws, I think you have to give Lock a chance to play.
If he has a lane and decides not to run, that's a problem too. But the above issues are a result of being shell shocked and some guys never recover.
The good news is, whoever the next guy is will have people to throw to and an improved line. The bad news is, if we have to look to the next guy, he could be 2 years away.
Historically speaking:
- his deep ball has been among the top of the league.
- There weren't throws that he 'couldn't make'
- He made some great throws on the run that other QBs probably couldn't make and won some games soley on his athleticism.
It remains to be seen if the lasting effects of the injuries will cause him to continue to regress. Or have an effect on his mobility...
I'd love to see him have a couple of games where he stands in a clean pocket for 3+ seconds before we kick him to the curb. I don't believe 2022 was a mirage... but 2023 was a disaster...
He took some brutal hits. If he stands clean and still is missing reads and throws, I think you have to give Lock a chance to play.
If he has a lane and decides not to run, that's a problem too. But the above issues are a result of being shell shocked and some guys never recover.
The good news is, whoever the next guy is will have people to throw to and an improved line. The bad news is, if we have to look to the next guy, he could be 2 years away.
Jones never had one of the best deep balls in the league.
There certainly are throws he can't make. And manyvhe doesn't attempt.
He's not an especially good thrower on the run, though he can make them at times.
NAME PCT RATE
Daniel Jones 67.2 92.5
Patrick Mahomes 67.1 105.2
Matt Ryan 67.0 83.9
Tom Brady 66.8 90.7
In 2021 he was more accurate at 20plus yards than Josh Allen.
Now show the aggregate number of 20+ AY attempts. DJ's deep ball problem has more to do with willingness than skill - he's got plenty of arm for it, but not enough balls.
The only 'fake news' is the effort you make to propagandize DJ.
We KNOW what the Giants believe.
Based on their actions.
They still believe he is a franchise QB.
They are clearly attempting to create a situation where he can succeed instead of replacing him or acquiring legitimate competition.
Why?
Owner mandate?
Or
That cannot evaluate QBs in the building while knowing the play call, have access to helmet communications and are responsible for installing the game plan.
Or
They believe if you protect him and give him actual NFL players to throw to, he can succeed in this offense.
All of BBI would have been fine if the Giants drafted a QB. There were a few people on BBI said if the we did not draft a QB we were doomed. They threw a toddler like fit when things did not go their way.
I have seen people post some form of the “The worst thing the Giants did was win games in 2022” repeated.
As fans we don’t mix.
Oil and water.
The draft is projection only, completely uncertain.
NEVER LOSE GAMES OR REGRET A WIN.( I loved 2022)
I have seen enough of Jones to know he could win if provided with average offensive talent. I believe his skill set plays.
If you do not, fine, not gonna die on that hill.
I don’t think Jones can stay healthy so I would have drafted competition in rd 1.
I don’t have his medicals so I cannot die on that hill either.
I am very excited for the upcoming season.
I get to be happy from now until then because I have something to look forward to.
My only danger is disappointment.
I would be disappointed anyways if the season is bad so the hopeful option really has no cost for me.
The time between now and the start of the season is filled with hope.
Would not have it any other way.
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Why don't we all give it a rest and wait until training camp and see what we've got. I'm sure that if Daniel Jones can't play or can't outplay Drew Lock, he will sit. Period. There are enough variables, such as play selection, the OL, receivers and running game that will come into play.
Rehashing the same old stuff doesn't advance the cause, as no amount of griping is going to change the coaches' minds. Actual performance will and should.
Why don't we all chill on this for a bit?
BRILLIENT POST!!!!!
Brillient.
I wouldn’t assume we even see the 2022 DJ again. After 2 serious injuries last year, he’s NOT that guy anymore. He may be too gun shy or two worried (subconsciously) about protecting himself, to be effective to any degree.
This is a good point. Beyond the talent issue I see with Jones, there definitely could be some David Carr Syndrome impacting Jones moving forward.
Jones comes into this season with the additional weight of:
-- coming off another poor, injury riddled season
-- your injuries appear chronic
-- the team apparently tried to trade for your replacement
-- Seattle's GM said Lock sign to compete for your job
-- your safety valve left for Philly
-- Etc
On the other hand, the Schoen and Mara firewall may buy him another two years.
Grown ass men
Still saying some form of
WE ARE DOOMED
Not apologizing for enjoying every moment of this. Some of you have been intolerable since the season ended.
Every angry post over this I get a little bit happy
Thank you
Despite that, their efforts to "improve" the QB room were to downgrade from Tyrod Taylor to Drew Lock at QB2 and challenge DeVito with a UDFA from Wabash College.
Great job.
Despite that, their efforts to "improve" the QB room were to downgrade from Tyrod Taylor to Drew Lock at QB2 and challenge DeVito with a UDFA from Wabash College.
What would you have set the odds days before the draft that we wouldn't draft any QB and sign an UDFA from Wabash?
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Despite that, their efforts to "improve" the QB room were to downgrade from Tyrod Taylor to Drew Lock at QB2 and challenge DeVito with a UDFA from Wabash College.
What would you have set the odds days before the draft that we wouldn't draft any QB and sign an UDFA from Wabash?
Pretty damn long odds.
They're acting like they're ready to win now; they'd better. If they don't you can see where this all goes, because we just lived it these last few years.
I'm not saying Taylor is any great shakes, but he's been a better player than Lock, who's been really poor since entering the NFL.
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Taylor made a number of inexplicably dumb decisions in crunch time at the end of halves/game. Not to mention he is made of glass. We are in situations where he needs to stay in the game and he takes a number of unnecessary shots. Lock did beat Philly and looked better against SF than Daniel Jones did.
I'm not saying Taylor is any great shakes, but he's been a better player than Lock, who's been really poor since entering the NFL.
Taylor has been in the NFL significantly longer so if he did not have more green I would be concerned.
I think my general point holds: the Giants have had a terrible QB room for years and the 2024 room figures to be the worst of the bunch (despite being the most expensive).
Grown ass men
Still saying some form of
WE ARE DOOMED
Not apologizing for enjoying every moment of this. Some of you have been intolerable since the season ended.
Every angry post over this I get a little bit happy
Thank you
I will never get these BBI posters who probably agree with the larger point that our QBs suck, but get off on it upsetting other posters, regardless how it impacts the Giants.
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In comment 16507662 Mike in NY said:
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Taylor made a number of inexplicably dumb decisions in crunch time at the end of halves/game. Not to mention he is made of glass. We are in situations where he needs to stay in the game and he takes a number of unnecessary shots. Lock did beat Philly and looked better against SF than Daniel Jones did.
I'm not saying Taylor is any great shakes, but he's been a better player than Lock, who's been really poor since entering the NFL.
Taylor has been in the NFL significantly longer so if he did not have more green I would be concerned.
I would be more interested in seeing Games started or minutes played. I feel Dan Jones and Tyrod are not that far off in those terms. Either way both imo are fringe starters, backup level players. Tyrod is a little better