The entire offense was such a mess last year, I think it's pretty hard to assess what progress Jones and the play callers made.
I don't pay attention to other teams closely enough to know if this comes up from time to time, but I keep going back to the sentiment Witherspoon and Graham expressed.
| Take away his first [read] and get him to move around. We gave ourselves a chance to put pressure on him. |
| "We knew he liked to stare down his first target," Witherspoon told NFL Network after the game. "We were just trusting the game plan the coaches laid out for us. He had his back turned and a lot of guys were winning the one-on-one matchups up front. Without them, we couldn't make the plays that we made." |
I'm curious how the offense addresses this perceived flaw. Especially without Barkley and with Jones having diminished wheels.
1) Perhaps Jones is a 1 read guy because he has so short a time to throw
2) The Eagles playoff game - Eagles said they took away Hodgins(his fav go to WR) and then won the battle up front - no chance for 2nd read
3) Giants have not had good enough WRs to throw to - guys that win early. They do now.
4) Jones is not very good reading the field so does #3 matter if Jones cannot read the field?
So what must happen is the oline must win their battles and give Jones time to actually make a couple reads(is it possible for Jones to make the reads?).
FWIW, last year Barkley was as bad as Evan Engram had been dropping open passes or deflecting them into INTs. Perhaps Singletary and Tracey will be better out of the backfield.
I still do not think Jones reads the field fast enough to make quick and early decisions. And no way teams respect Jones runs early in the year - so that part of the previous functioning offense is dead at least through October. (Funny that he actually blew up his knee dropping back to throw and not on a run)
Just wow!! All the posts SY had made comments how Jones missed receivers and slow to react etc now we have the typical revisionist history some of you are trying to do.
It's unreal how you can just accept the mediocrity or worse of an injury-plagued QB and try to hard to look for excuses. Completely oblivious to SY's posts, eh? Oblivious that we he would have taken a QB?
It's just so laughable how some of you can say these things and ignore the many year results and the injuries and just keep throwing dart after dart.
Some of you it seems are just content to be a contrarian maybe?
So, run it back with Jones again in 2025.
Not worth worrying about now because there is nothing to be done. But yeah, if that is the case then that is the case - no QB worth drafting at 5-12, then keep building the team. You cannot not build the team. I am certain they will have plenty of holes remaining.
Neither you nor I have a clue as to what Schoen is thinking. And I suspect you are right on the draft position in 2025. Do they look to a mid-level vet QB in FA? Do they go after Dak figuring Daboll would be a better coach than McCarthy(very likely) and get Dak through the playoffs?
The only thing I know is Jones is not the answer at QB and that puts him into a very large group.
Or do they think outside the box and look for a running QB that can do the RPO fairly well - like Sanders?
So, run it back with Jones again in 2025.
This is what I have been saying as well.
Some seem to think just because we are Giants fans and say "we'll just go get a QB for 2025" that one will pop into our lap.
Along with further excuses of not having "the value" to take a QB at our Draft Position.
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In comment 16508738 giantstock said:
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Never mind the fact the week-to-week SY would mention often how Jones doesn't react well etc. We get quotes others saying the same thing. We have seen it with our own eyes. SO instead of accepting it-- we have some Giants fans making excuses - as if ever play every down - it's all on the OL and on the WR;s.
Just more typical excuse making from some Giants fans and the willingness to accept mediocrity is fine. -- It's isn't
DJ is just not very good. This stuff of "let it play out" is just code for accepting a team that is going nowhere unless/until the QB move is made. And we’re supposed to just snap our fingers and get the QB in 2025 because “we say so.” – IMO that isn’t going to happen as easy as many suggest. They are going to be a 6-8 team.
In the interim- I would have preferred more picks in the Trenches. But okay - hopefully we'll some very good play from our young players to then build from.
this is where I lose interest in the conversation.
Some people simply will not accept having a conversation.
Most of what has been said here is not excuses just addressing via the conversation other issues on the team.
Issues that would have an effect on any quarterback.
As of right now Jones is the quarterback of the Giants.
Discussing the team around him and how it might affect his play is not making excuses.
It is not accepting mediocrity.
It is not a suggestion that if these things happen he must be the quarterback going forward.
And this is what is frustrating with posters like you -- you want to preach against posters who don't share your opinion. The subject line of my post was specific. You seem willing to be okay with excuse-making - I am not. You are just trying to change the narrative to use the word "conversation" but per the quotes below that I took from Page 1 (which I referred to in my Subject Line that you and I are now replying to) and pasted below it is not "conversation" as you say: but it IS excuse making.
============================
it's not like the Giants offensive line gave him a ton of opportunities to sit back in the pocket and survey the field, or provide time to let more complicated routes develop.
Giants had limited weapons on offense besides Barkley
Giants didn’t use Barkley in the enough in passing game which allowed defenses to Crowd the line.. Crowd the box.. Reduce space and area to make throws..
Giants receivers no great threat...
Offensive Line couldn’t run block or pass block to save its life...
Which I suspect stems from lack of time..
Due to OL losing all of the one on one battles up front.
You have just supported my post.
At no point in this thread did I make an excuse for Jones. Nowhere.
I have made my point that I wanted JJ and that regardless of how 2024 goes, I expect DJ to be gone.
I am having conversations with people that I agree and disagree with...you are simply talking down to those that you disagree with.
Jones has been bad, the OL has been bad, the WRs have been bad and the coaching has been bad.
The Giants addressed some of these areas...actually all of them sans for the QB. As I said, I thought that the potential solution fell to them at 6, the Giants didn't agree.
But, I am still a fan of the team and in this thread have been having good conversation with BBIrs regarding the 2 comments made in the OP.
We all devote a chunk of our time to this team. Regardless of what I wanted to happen in the draft, I am not terribly interested in spending that time being miserable.
There will be 52 other players on the team and the conversation here has been about how those guys, along with the new coaches, might affect the QB position.
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But I could see anywhere from 5 to 12. If that happens I think there will be the same conversations we just had: why force QB, build the team, maximize value, etc. After all Jones is still on the bills in 2025 for what, $25M or something? That's not nothing.
So, run it back with Jones again in 2025.
Not worth worrying about now because there is nothing to be done. But yeah, if that is the case then that is the case - no QB worth drafting at 5-12, then keep building the team. You cannot not build the team. I am certain they will have plenty of holes remaining.
Neither you nor I have a clue as to what Schoen is thinking. And I suspect you are right on the draft position in 2025. Do they look to a mid-level vet QB in FA? Do they go after Dak figuring Daboll would be a better coach than McCarthy(very likely) and get Dak through the playoffs?
The only thing I know is Jones is not the answer at QB and that puts him into a very large group.
Or do they think outside the box and look for a running QB that can do the RPO fairly well - like Sanders?
Andwhat if one of the QB's you passed on is very good - and in 2025 you can't get one? JS had better had hit big time with his FA's and Draft pciks, right? But is he is picking 5 or 6 he probably hasn't.
Then what? Are we going to offer more excuses for them too?
Well since that is not close to what you said in your post. Yes.
Which are the QBs that won Super Bowls on rookie contracts? Mahomes and ?? (recent - last 10 years)
Yes, Burrow, Purdy and Hurts got to the Super Bowl...
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I guess all those SB's won by QB's on rookie deals doesn't mean anything for you. Then you have SB winning teams who won a SB with a relatively cheaper veteran QB who wasn't one of the key drivers of those teams.
Well since that is not close to what you said in your post. Yes.
Which are the QBs that won Super Bowls on rookie contracts? Mahomes and ?? (recent - last 10 years)
Yes, Burrow, Purdy and Hurts got to the Super Bowl...
Goff also got to a SB on his rookie contract.
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In comment 16508804 Brown_Hornet said:
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In comment 16508738 giantstock said:
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Never mind the fact the week-to-week SY would mention often how Jones doesn't react well etc. We get quotes others saying the same thing. We have seen it with our own eyes. SO instead of accepting it-- we have some Giants fans making excuses - as if ever play every down - it's all on the OL and on the WR;s.
Just more typical excuse making from some Giants fans and the willingness to accept mediocrity is fine. -- It's isn't
DJ is just not very good. This stuff of "let it play out" is just code for accepting a team that is going nowhere unless/until the QB move is made. And we’re supposed to just snap our fingers and get the QB in 2025 because “we say so.” – IMO that isn’t going to happen as easy as many suggest. They are going to be a 6-8 team.
In the interim- I would have preferred more picks in the Trenches. But okay - hopefully we'll some very good play from our young players to then build from.
this is where I lose interest in the conversation.
Some people simply will not accept having a conversation.
Most of what has been said here is not excuses just addressing via the conversation other issues on the team.
Issues that would have an effect on any quarterback.
As of right now Jones is the quarterback of the Giants.
Discussing the team around him and how it might affect his play is not making excuses.
It is not accepting mediocrity.
It is not a suggestion that if these things happen he must be the quarterback going forward.
And this is what is frustrating with posters like you -- you want to preach against posters who don't share your opinion. The subject line of my post was specific. You seem willing to be okay with excuse-making - I am not. You are just trying to change the narrative to use the word "conversation" but per the quotes below that I took from Page 1 (which I referred to in my Subject Line that you and I are now replying to) and pasted below it is not "conversation" as you say: but it IS excuse making.
============================
it's not like the Giants offensive line gave him a ton of opportunities to sit back in the pocket and survey the field, or provide time to let more complicated routes develop.
Giants had limited weapons on offense besides Barkley
Giants didn’t use Barkley in the enough in passing game which allowed defenses to Crowd the line.. Crowd the box.. Reduce space and area to make throws..
Giants receivers no great threat...
Offensive Line couldn’t run block or pass block to save its life...
Which I suspect stems from lack of time..
Due to OL losing all of the one on one battles up front.
You have just supported my post.
At no point in this thread did I make an excuse for Jones. Nowhere.
I have made my point that I wanted JJ and that regardless of how 2024 goes, I expect DJ to be gone.
I am having conversations with people that I agree and disagree with...you are simply talking down to those that you disagree with.
Jones has been bad, the OL has been bad, the WRs have been bad and the coaching has been bad.
The Giants addressed some of these areas...actually all of them sans for the QB. As I said, I thought that the potential solution fell to them at 6, the Giants didn't agree.
But, I am still a fan of the team and in this thread have been having good conversation with BBIrs regarding the 2 comments made in the OP.
We all devote a chunk of our time to this team. Regardless of what I wanted to happen in the draft, I am not terribly interested in spending that time being miserable.
There will be 52 other players on the team and the conversation here has been about how those guys, along with the new coaches, might affect the QB position.
By accusing me - in which I was talking about other psoters in which you say
================
"Most of what has been said here is not excuses . . ."
=============================
Yet I just showed you MANY excuses I got from Page 1 which you conventiently ignored. That's an implied definition of "excuse making."
And who says I am not a fan of the team? So why bring up you are a fan? We both are. An issue on this site has been at times posters wind up selectively changing the past narrative.
A year form now -- there will be quite a few on here that will say "most of us agrred that Giving Jones another year and taking the WR was the right move. Whtat else were we supposed to do?"
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In comment 16508900 Go Terps said:
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But I could see anywhere from 5 to 12. If that happens I think there will be the same conversations we just had: why force QB, build the team, maximize value, etc. After all Jones is still on the bills in 2025 for what, $25M or something? That's not nothing.
So, run it back with Jones again in 2025.
Not worth worrying about now because there is nothing to be done. But yeah, if that is the case then that is the case - no QB worth drafting at 5-12, then keep building the team. You cannot not build the team. I am certain they will have plenty of holes remaining.
Neither you nor I have a clue as to what Schoen is thinking. And I suspect you are right on the draft position in 2025. Do they look to a mid-level vet QB in FA? Do they go after Dak figuring Daboll would be a better coach than McCarthy(very likely) and get Dak through the playoffs?
The only thing I know is Jones is not the answer at QB and that puts him into a very large group.
Or do they think outside the box and look for a running QB that can do the RPO fairly well - like Sanders?
Andwhat if one of the QB's you passed on is very good - and in 2025 you can't get one? JS had better had hit big time with his FA's and Draft pciks, right? But is he is picking 5 or 6 he probably hasn't.
Then what? Are we going to offer more excuses for them too?
Which one that they passed on is going to be very good? Which one? Right - you haven't a clue. So you are throwing crap against the wall hoping something sticks and think that is offering a credible position.
To me, Williams will likely do well - but he was #1. I also think Nix on Denver will do well and I think he would have done well with Daboll.
But get off your high horse. I am not a Jones fan. If you are going to draft a QB, you'd best get the one that will be capable running your offense and be a big improvement over what you have. Why would you saddle yourself with someone you don't believe in or someone no better than Lock?
Last ten years (one a bit more). Flacco, Wilson and Wentz. Philly had more money to sign a quality back up Foles.
Brady also was known to take a discount. Even wonder why that was?
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In comment 16508918 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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I guess all those SB's won by QB's on rookie deals doesn't mean anything for you. Then you have SB winning teams who won a SB with a relatively cheaper veteran QB who wasn't one of the key drivers of those teams.
Well since that is not close to what you said in your post. Yes.
Which are the QBs that won Super Bowls on rookie contracts? Mahomes and ?? (recent - last 10 years)
Yes, Burrow, Purdy and Hurts got to the Super Bowl...
Goff also got to a SB on his rookie contract.
I was answering LoS on all those QBs on rookie contracts that won SBs recently that he alluded too...
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In comment 16508920 section125 said:
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In comment 16508900 Go Terps said:
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But I could see anywhere from 5 to 12. If that happens I think there will be the same conversations we just had: why force QB, build the team, maximize value, etc. After all Jones is still on the bills in 2025 for what, $25M or something? That's not nothing.
So, run it back with Jones again in 2025.
Not worth worrying about now because there is nothing to be done. But yeah, if that is the case then that is the case - no QB worth drafting at 5-12, then keep building the team. You cannot not build the team. I am certain they will have plenty of holes remaining.
Neither you nor I have a clue as to what Schoen is thinking. And I suspect you are right on the draft position in 2025. Do they look to a mid-level vet QB in FA? Do they go after Dak figuring Daboll would be a better coach than McCarthy(very likely) and get Dak through the playoffs?
The only thing I know is Jones is not the answer at QB and that puts him into a very large group.
Or do they think outside the box and look for a running QB that can do the RPO fairly well - like Sanders?
Andwhat if one of the QB's you passed on is very good - and in 2025 you can't get one? JS had better had hit big time with his FA's and Draft pciks, right? But is he is picking 5 or 6 he probably hasn't.
Then what? Are we going to offer more excuses for them too?
Which one that they passed on is going to be very good? Which one? Right - you haven't a clue. So you are throwing crap against the wall hoping something sticks and think that is offering a credible position.
To me, Williams will likely do well - but he was #1. I also think Nix on Denver will do well and I think he would have done well with Daboll.
But get off your high horse. I am not a Jones fan. If you are going to draft a QB, you'd best get the one that will be capable running your offense and be a big improvement over what you have. Why would you saddle yourself with someone you don't believe in or someone no better than Lock?
I'm not being paid-- the GM is. I'm not being paid to coach and to recommend the Coach is. SO why is it relevant that you are putting this on me if it isn't my job?
I wasn't the moron that took Barkley with the #2 pick, selected Jones then resigned Jones.
SO get the bug out of your ass and start putting the blame on those that deserve it instead of again trying to make excuses by at this point putting the blame on posters.
You do not use a high draft choice to be marginally better.
Marginal improvement at a fraction of the cost is a good thing, despite you'd have us believe.
I'll fully admit too not knowing what he's thinking. I've been trying to make it make sense and I can't. From here it just looks like they entered with a plan (let Jones walk after 2022 and draft a guy in '23 or '24), abandoned the plan, and now don't have a plan.
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In
You do not use a high draft choice to be marginally better.
Marginal improvement at a fraction of the cost is a good thing, despite you'd have us believe.
Except at this point, there is no magical cost reduction. It is $47 mill this year and $23 or $25 mill next year to Jones unless traded.
You cannot just wish that money away. Bad deal yes - but it still exists.
And that is what I said.
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Neither you nor I have a clue as to what Schoen is thinking.
I'll fully admit too not knowing what he's thinking. I've been trying to make it make sense and I can't. From here it just looks like they entered with a plan (let Jones walk after 2022 and draft a guy in '23 or '24), abandoned the plan, and now don't have a plan.
I cannot say you are wrong. But I do think he has an idea what he wants to do or they wouldn't have passed on McCarthy - unless he though Penix would have made it to 49.
I also cannot say for certain, but I do think he has a vague plan(or maybe an idea) what he wants to do.
“If the OL didn’t suck, we wouldn’t be able to sit all over stuff.”
It’s funny how having an embarrassing pass blocking OL affects your ability to go through reads.
But no. The guy should be Joe Montana even though he’s got no blocking, and skill players who can’t get open quickly.
The FO after 2022 identified Jones as a QB that gives them a performance floor that would allow them time (time = win %) to build the roster and schemes. They paid more than most wanted to see for that floor. They obviously felt then and now that he still provides a higher floor than the players they didn’t resign or draft.
They miscalculated the offensive line depth last year as they attempted to advance the offensive scheme. The injuries and performance of that depth led to the bottom falling out. Jones regressed and it took several weeks before the staff could adjust and produce some semblance of competitive offense again.
Whether you like it or not, they are continuing with their plan. They’ve added vets to the existing youth to hopefully raise the floor of the OL and they continued to add pieces at WR, TE, pass rush and pass coverage.
They’re going to try to expand the offensive scheme again. We’ll see.
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In comment 16508920 section125 said:
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Neither you nor I have a clue as to what Schoen is thinking.
I'll fully admit too not knowing what he's thinking. I've been trying to make it make sense and I can't. From here it just looks like they entered with a plan (let Jones walk after 2022 and draft a guy in '23 or '24), abandoned the plan, and now don't have a plan.
I cannot say you are wrong. But I do think he has an idea what he wants to do or they wouldn't have passed on McCarthy - unless he though Penix would have made it to 49.
I also cannot say for certain, but I do think he has a vague plan(or maybe an idea) what he wants to do.
Nobody in the NFL has a rock solid plan because too much shit happens along the way. The Giants appear to have entered the off-season hoping to get one of the top QBs but when that failed they went out and got what they hope will be a dynamic weapon for the offence. My guess is that their expectation is that with an improved OL and a few more weapons for the offence not to mention what they expect to be an improved pass rush, the team hopefully will play a lot more like they did in 2022 and the Giants at least contend for a playoff spot again. Whether they do or don't they'll revisit the QB situation at the end of the year; evaluate how Jones played, and depending how he did play look at the options at the position (and every position for that matter) in free agency and the draft and proceed accordingly.
Its not rocket science. Its how NFL teams operate, not how weasally fans, who only seem to be thinking how to avoid the worst catastrophe rather than trying to figure out how to try and win games, think.
The FO after 2022 identified Jones as a QB that gives them a performance floor that would allow them time (time = win %) to build the roster and schemes. They paid more than most wanted to see for that floor. They obviously felt then and now that he still provides a higher floor than the players they didn’t resign or draft.
They miscalculated the offensive line depth last year as they attempted to advance the offensive scheme. The injuries and performance of that depth led to the bottom falling out. Jones regressed and it took several weeks before the staff could adjust and produce some semblance of competitive offense again.
Whether you like it or not, they are continuing with their plan. They’ve added vets to the existing youth to hopefully raise the floor of the OL and they continued to add pieces at WR, TE, pass rush and pass coverage.
They’re going to try to expand the offensive scheme again. We’ll see.
But jsut to add reinforce some things as you mentioend a few:
1-- They msilcalculated the OL.
2-- They miscalcuated the QB.
3-- They miscalculated the Tight End.
4-- For a rebuilding team they don't have much of a RB (though that's not too bad for the moment for the RB. That can wait.).
Sure gotta love "the plan!"
And I just want to reiterate to you what SY referred to the Giants OL as of this year - to paraphrase "A Bunch of Maybes."
But no. The guy should be Joe Montana even though he’s got no blocking, and skill players who can’t get open quickly.
This is what gets me about the hypocrisy of some you excuse-makers in which the poster BrownHornets referred to posters
just wanting "Conversation." Love you want to converse by sueggesting/implying so many want Jones to be Joe Montana. LOL. How dare anyone refer to some of you as "excuse-maker" but then you make quotes liek this? LMAO.
But jsut to add reinforce some things as you mentioend a few:
1-- They msilcalculated the OL.
2-- They miscalcuated the QB.
3-- They miscalculated the Tight End.
4-- For a rebuilding team they don't have much of a RB (though that's not too bad for the moment for the RB. That can wait.).
Sure gotta love "the plan!"
And I just want to reiterate to you what SY referred to the Giants OL as of this year - to paraphrase "A Bunch of Maybes."
Well, that describes just about every line in the NFL - a bunch of maybes except for a few teams.
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But jsut to add reinforce some things as you mentioend a few:
1-- They msilcalculated the OL.
2-- They miscalcuated the QB.
3-- They miscalculated the Tight End.
4-- For a rebuilding team they don't have much of a RB (though that's not too bad for the moment for the RB. That can wait.).
Sure gotta love "the plan!"
And I just want to reiterate to you what SY referred to the Giants OL as of this year - to paraphrase "A Bunch of Maybes."
Well, that describes just about every line in the NFL - a bunch of maybes except for a few teams.
How many draft picks are on the OL for the Giants right now vs how many are FA's?
How many can yo say for sure on the Giants OL are "plus OLinemen?" Not average - but "plus?"
And if you say that you dont think much of Jones- other thna okay at best if that-- what kind of an OL do you think he will do well in?
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But jsut to add reinforce some things as you mentioend a few:
1-- They msilcalculated the OL.
2-- They miscalcuated the QB.
3-- They miscalculated the Tight End.
4-- For a rebuilding team they don't have much of a RB (though that's not too bad for the moment for the RB. That can wait.).
Sure gotta love "the plan!"
And I just want to reiterate to you what SY referred to the Giants OL as of this year - to paraphrase "A Bunch of Maybes."
Well, that describes just about every line in the NFL - a bunch of maybes except for a few teams.
Bill Walsh said it himself when he ran the 49ers: "We're only competing with 7 or 8 teams."
The same applies now, and the Giants are not one of the teams competing.
Yet I just showed you MANY excuses I got from Page 1 which you conventiently ignored.
Those issues effect ALL QBs.
As I said, it is possible to identify problems at other positions.
It is possible to note that said problems affect the QB's ability to play well.
It is possible to think that should these areas be improved that the play of the QB might also improve.
And, it is possible that the QB play can improve and yet still not be a good reason to retain the QB after marginal improvement.
Caveat, there are very likely some excuses being made by a few, but most are simply discussing the current state of the team. Which, I think that you would agree, has been multi-dysfunctional.
Also, you said that I was making them, I did not.
He is 15-34-1 outside of that one stretch where the Giants ran a 1 read wildcat type offense and when that got figured it, that was it.
Its not like he ran roughshod that stretch either. Barkley was leading the NFL in rushing and Jones contributed 165 yds passing per game with a total of 6 TD passes in those games
He is 4-11-1 since then. He was 12-24 before then
Its really one singular 7-2 stretch that people want to see something in
This ^. And every player in the NFL knows. Particularly, the men in the Giants locker room. The idea that they are running DJ out there again is nothing less than pure cruelty at this point to the kid. Very sad.
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In comment 16508980 giantstock said:
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But jsut to add reinforce some things as you mentioend a few:
1-- They msilcalculated the OL.
2-- They miscalcuated the QB.
3-- They miscalculated the Tight End.
4-- For a rebuilding team they don't have much of a RB (though that's not too bad for the moment for the RB. That can wait.).
Sure gotta love "the plan!"
And I just want to reiterate to you what SY referred to the Giants OL as of this year - to paraphrase "A Bunch of Maybes."
Well, that describes just about every line in the NFL - a bunch of maybes except for a few teams.
How many draft picks are on the OL for the Giants right now vs how many are FA's?
How many can yo say for sure on the Giants OL are "plus OLinemen?" Not average - but "plus?"
And if you say that you dont think much of Jones- other thna okay at best if that-- what kind of an OL do you think he will do well in?
You tell me.
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Yet I just showed you MANY excuses I got from Page 1 which you conventiently ignored.
No, you pasted comments of people recognizing other issues on the team besides the QB.
Those issues effect ALL QBs.
A
You 1st replied to me by stating -- "Some people simply will not accept having a conversation." -- THIS is an ACCUSATION. I replied in a later post
You made another comment "Most of what has been said here is not excuses . . ."
I replied -- "By accusing me - in which I was talking about other posters in which you say" --
NOTE: I SAID OTHER. --> OTHER. I used the word "OTHER>" Then I followed up with
"Yet I just showed you MANY excuses I got from Page 1 which you conveniently ignored. That's an implied definition of "excuse making."
Note I did not say You said it -- I was saying because you IGNORED the Point of THIS Subject Line at the time which clearly states PAGE 1 -- Not YOU at the time I replied. It can't be clearer PAGE 1. I was referring to the initial posts on this thread from Page 1.
But now you are hovering on excuses too. The definition of an excuse is to "lessen the blame. . ." But let's look at DJ:
1-- After 6 years of subpar play.
2-- After being often injured.
3a-- After reading comments from the pro scout on this board.
3b-- Plus the pro scout on this board stating he'd have taken the QB at 6.
4-- Plus listening to many on TV and Computer and outside of BBI - other opinions of a certain degree of "expert" in which quite a bit say Giants should have gone or go QB.
5-- Plus what I see with my own eyes. And it just so happens to a degree I happen to agree with the Pro Scout. How do you think I am going to express my opinion then in which I feel I’m right? In which I feel others are trying to lessen the blame that DJ deserves in which I agree with the pro scout that he should have been replaced becuase the poitns you are tryingto provide are not what is actually happening in regard to DJ?
6-- Plus I'm now concerned about what was DJ's strength his mobility could be affected.
7-- The risk if injured playing more money hit against the Giants hurting our chances to get other quality players.
With all of this (not just ONE or TWO) I'm supposed to ignore because some of you say "maybe . . . it's someone else’s fault," or "he could improve?"
Well what if someone were to think he is not good and is a bad bet and believe some of the 7 above if not all are correct and the Giants made a huge mistake in which one of the QBs they passed on tun out to be very good (all highly possible) too?
Then wouldn’t it stand to reason that I'd have a certain frustration with those that I feel are wrong by trying to lessen the blame on DJ (and the FO) and have delayed what should have been an obvious removal?
I'm done.
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kind of important right?
But no. The guy should be Joe Montana even though he’s got no blocking, and skill players who can’t get open quickly.
This is what gets me about the hypocrisy of some you excuse-makers in which the poster BrownHornets referred to posters
just wanting "Conversation." Love you want to converse by sueggesting/implying so many want Jones to be Joe Montana. LOL. How dare anyone refer to some of you as "excuse-maker" but then you make quotes liek this? LMAO.
*Gasp* you mean I used a bit of hyperbole? How dare I, when discussing Jones!
It's not an excuse, it's an analysis of the situation. And of course, you had nothing intelligent to counter it with.
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In comment 16508998 section125 said:
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In comment 16508980 giantstock said:
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But jsut to add reinforce some things as you mentioend a few:
1-- They msilcalculated the OL.
2-- They miscalcuated the QB.
3-- They miscalculated the Tight End.
4-- For a rebuilding team they don't have much of a RB (though that's not too bad for the moment for the RB. That can wait.).
Sure gotta love "the plan!"
And I just want to reiterate to you what SY referred to the Giants OL as of this year - to paraphrase "A Bunch of Maybes."
Well, that describes just about every line in the NFL - a bunch of maybes except for a few teams.
How many draft picks are on the OL for the Giants right now vs how many are FA's?
How many can yo say for sure on the Giants OL are "plus OLinemen?" Not average - but "plus?"
And if you say that you dont think much of Jones- other thna okay at best if that-- what kind of an OL do you think he will do well in?
You tell me.
He won't be good. But the team could be mediocre - so it's as I've said before - the more mediocre the Giants are- then the lesser chance they get a top QB in the draft. Which means as fans we have to rely on the Giants making the right moves. Overall with the points I made- much of it doesn't sound like they have made the right moves so far, does it? OL not fixed. Still subpar QB. Major downgrade at RB, Wasted money on worthless TE. OL probably mediocre at best not built through the draft highly possible.
Yet the Defense while not “great" might be good enough to help get us 6-8 wins. And DJ while not terrible with a mediocre OL and a great WR gets us that assured 6-8 win"mediocrity."
Sure - pointing out that DJ had horrific pass blocking and subpar skill players is "making excuses".
What a tool. You want nothing to do with a discussion. None of the outside factors can be considered......he just sucks because you said so. Get bent.....
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In comment 16508958 mittenedman said:
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kind of important right?
But no. The guy should be Joe Montana even though he’s got no blocking, and skill players who can’t get open quickly.
This is what gets me about the hypocrisy of some you excuse-makers in which the poster BrownHornets referred to posters
just wanting "Conversation." Love you want to converse by sueggesting/implying so many want Jones to be Joe Montana. LOL. How dare anyone refer to some of you as "excuse-maker" but then you make quotes liek this? LMAO.
*Gasp* you mean I used a bit of hyperbole? How dare I, when discussing Jones!
It's not an excuse, it's an analysis of the situation. And of course, you had nothing intelligent to counter it with.
I can't call you excuse makers but you could dig on posters like me using hyperbole to justify your opinion?
I'm done.
Conversation with posters such as yourself is one-way then you pretend to be hurt by your initial commenet you made to me.
There are so many things to pick apart with DJ. .
Good bye.
Sure - pointing out that DJ had horrific pass blocking and subpar skill players is "making excuses".
What a tool. You want nothing to do with a discussion. None of the outside factors can be considered......he just sucks because you said so. Get bent.....
Sure a pro scout on here stating many times that he misses receivers and is slow to process is just soemthing you don't want add, is it? ALways someone else's fault, isn't it? But yeah that's not excuse making. LMAO That's the next Joe Montana.
He won't be good. But the team could be mediocre - so it's as I've said before - the more mediocre the Giants are- then the lesser chance they get a top QB in the draft. Which means as fans we have to rely on the Giants making the right moves. Overall with the points I made- much of it doesn't sound like they have made the right moves so far, does it? OL not fixed. Still subpar QB. Major downgrade at RB, Wasted money on worthless TE. OL probably mediocre at best not built through the draft highly possible.
Yet the Defense while not “great" might be good enough to help get us 6-8 wins. And DJ while not terrible with a mediocre OL and a great WR gets us that assured 6-8 win"mediocrity."
So, we agree on Jones - mediocre at best
We disagree on oline - they have drafted several players last few years. They missed on some FAs that seemed solid. Why? Bobby Johnson.
Neither you nor I know what will happen when Bricillo gets ahold of these guys. I have no doubt that Johnson was terrible. Seeing what Bricillo did in Las Vegas I am optimistic.
Also, we have to rely on them making the right moves whether the draft, FA or UDFA. Nothing changes.
The defense will likely be better than last year. I suspect a lot better.
At RB, we have been told over and over Barkley was nothing/overrated, so they probably didn't lose much and in fact will likely be better if the OL pans out.
It was not a bad chance on Waller - still caught 50 passes.
While I am not an optimist you are clearly pessimistic. everything you wrote expects the worst.
And FWIW, if the oline and Jones are "mediocre" they would likely win between 7 and 9 games. And yes, it would take them away from the QB arena. So what is your answer - tank from the get go? Are you going to root for loses?
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...you have sufficiently Millered.
I'm done.
Conversation with posters such as yourself is one-way then you pretend to be hurt by your initial commenet you made to me.
There are so many things to pick apart with DJ. .
Good bye.
Find some self awareness.
The fact you are unwilling to consider any of them tells me all I need to know. It's a superficial, surface-level take I don't find particularly interesting.
The fact you are unwilling to consider any of them tells me all I need to know. It's a superficial, surface-level take I don't find particularly interesting.
Mitt- I don't take advice from idiots like you. For example I highlighted what SY woudl do in the Draft -- and that's to eventually repalce your hero. It's not my problem you are too stupoid to comprehend.
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In comment 16509052 Brown_Hornet said:
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...you have sufficiently Millered.
I'm done.
Conversation with posters such as yourself is one-way then you pretend to be hurt by your initial commenet you made to me.
There are so many things to pick apart with DJ. .
Good bye.
That makes no sense.
Find some self awareness.
Keep livign in yoru own world. It makes no sense when you fuirst said to me teh below?
Stop actign like a brat that mitt is. Below you were whining that poor you lsot interets. Too bad. You prfetend liek you arre so above it all - yet you made these ludicorous comments regarding DJ opf silly maybes.
Its apparent many fans, anayslyts and in particular SY all are okay with replacing Jones. Your petty whining that you don't like where the discussion is going is pretty pathetic. There's a reason wny so many feel he should be replaced-- it's because the excuses you and others try to throw out are sort of full of crap.
"this is where I lose interest in the conversation.
Some people simply will not accept having a conversation."
After the 2022 season:
“To be able to operate in that type of environment is difficult at the position. To see how he separated himself, elevated himself above the circumstances at times last year, and we still won games, I think he checked every box.”
This was a pretty strong endorsement of Jones after the surprise 2022 season. When a GM says a player checks every box, that stand out to me.
After this the 2023 season:
"Again, did we have the best start to the season last year? Absolutely not. Anything that could have gone wrong, it seems like it did early on between injuries and some other things. I've still got a lot of confidence in Daniel."
But Schoen, when asked about Jones's struggles and if the revolving door at offensive line was a factor, seemed ready to give the former Duke signal caller a pass, noting that the offensive line issues often led to Jones getting out of the pocket too early and messing with his timing.
"Again, it was a revolving door there," Schoen said. "I think it was the Miami game--we had three guys on the practice squad that had to play in the game. So when you get that far down the roster, you're talking about your sixth offensive tackle who plays in the fourth quarter of the last preseason game.
"So it's hard when you're playing against playoff caliber teams with those types of guys. So yeah, it was a little bit of the time in the pocket, the timing with the receivers."
To me, this was a very strong signal going into the draft that Schoen, and likely Dabol et al, were willing to give Jones a huge benefit of the doubt for 2023 collapse. And assign blame almost entirely on the OL. So, they were more than comfortable rolling it back with Jones.
With that in mind, I would proffer that the NYG intelligentsia still believe Jones can take those next steps without the training wheels of 2022. Thus, I expect Jones to continue his transition to more of a pocket passer. He will be less of a dual threat (because of the injury) and run as a last resort.
If you accept that premise, I think it's only fair to think the Giants should compete for at least a wild card spot.
And why not? The brass still believes in Jones, and they brought in more reinforcements to help him, and the team, take the next steps.
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He won't be good. But the team could be mediocre - so it's as I've said before - the more mediocre the Giants are- then the lesser chance they get a top QB in the draft. Which means as fans we have to rely on the Giants making the right moves. Overall with the points I made- much of it doesn't sound like they have made the right moves so far, does it? OL not fixed. Still subpar QB. Major downgrade at RB, Wasted money on worthless TE. OL probably mediocre at best not built through the draft highly possible.
Yet the Defense while not “great" might be good enough to help get us 6-8 wins. And DJ while not terrible with a mediocre OL and a great WR gets us that assured 6-8 win"mediocrity."
So, we agree on Jones - mediocre at best
We disagree on oline - they have drafted several players last few years. They missed on some FAs that seemed solid. Why? Bobby Johnson.
Neither you nor I know what will happen when Bricillo gets ahold of these guys. I have no doubt that Johnson was terrible. Seeing what Bricillo did in Las Vegas I am optimistic.
Also, we have to rely on them making the right moves whether the draft, FA or UDFA. Nothing changes.
The defense will likely be better than last year. I suspect a lot better.
At RB, we have been told over and over Barkley was nothing/overrated, so they probably didn't lose much and in fact will likely be better if the OL pans out.
It was not a bad chance on Waller - still caught 50 passes.
While I am not an optimist you are clearly pessimistic. everything you wrote expects the worst.
And FWIW, if the oline and Jones are "mediocre" they would likely win between 7 and 9 games. And yes, it would take them away from the QB arena. So what is your answer - tank from the get go? Are you going to root for loses?
Let's talk for fun. To start with -
Yes we agree at best Jones is mediocre. However I am skeptical he makes the whole year if we are to be a Passing team which no doubt we will try to be. SO to steal your phrase again - the signing of Jones last year and the moving forward with him is/was pissing in the wind. In addition if he gets hurt to a certain degree then the Giants also get screwed having to pay him for another year - regardless of the amount. Its more pissing away money. You agree?
So - it's reckless to count on him. So after the fact I feel they made mistakes this year and last with Jones, unlike them I would look to correct the problem and tank/ i.e. go with Lock if that is tanking. That's "the box" they put us in.
As for Waller- imo we overall continue to make excuses. So while you are providing further excuses for the GM- imo you should be looking at just more signs of recklessness just liek with Jones. Since when does a GM not get slammed if he maees moves that don't pan out while his team stinks with a celign of mediocre which is generous? You are seriously suggesting that the GM is blameless for going after Waller? If not, then what was teh point of your question?
Part of a GM's job is to recognize when he is in rebuild mode. Does the signings of Jones, Barkley and Waller appear to you that they had recognition this team was devoid of talent? **It took ONE OL to go down then the crummy line from this past year folded / crumbled in which they sucked the year before too That's not the coaching staff/ GM's fault for not recognizing that the prior year then leading into this year that they were devoid of talent? Of course it is. And we're supposed to shrug our shoulders and excuse the lack of talent in which the GM felt going after an old TE more of a priority because he had expacations to win when he should ahve known hsi team was devoid of talent? It's reckless.
If I were the GM at this draft - is that what you're asking? Because there is nothing that can be done now. Or are you talking about what needs to be done as a projection after this year if we are mediocre and still can't get a QB? The big problem is that JS went "Gettleman" on us adter the 2022 season not recognizing his team was a mirage. You don't try to do both at once rebuidl and win. Eventually the mron Gettleman was quoted as syaing this before he left.
And what would you have done in similar manner? Or are you okay as of right now?
And you call me a pessimist -- how is it I'm a pessimist when I say we are going to win 6-8 games? That they are projected to win 6.5. So why are you labelling me a pessimist? I dont cheerlead.
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In comment 16509057 giantstock said:
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He won't be good. But the team could be mediocre - so it's as I've said before - the more mediocre the Giants are- then the lesser chance they get a top QB in the draft. Which means as fans we have to rely on the Giants making the right moves. Overall with the points I made- much of it doesn't sound like they have made the right moves so far, does it? OL not fixed. Still subpar QB. Major downgrade at RB, Wasted money on worthless TE. OL probably mediocre at best not built through the draft highly possible.
Yet the Defense while not “great" might be good enough to help get us 6-8 wins. And DJ while not terrible with a mediocre OL and a great WR gets us that assured 6-8 win"mediocrity."
So, we agree on Jones - mediocre at best
We disagree on oline - they have drafted several players last few years. They missed on some FAs that seemed solid. Why? Bobby Johnson.
Neither you nor I know what will happen when Bricillo gets ahold of these guys. I have no doubt that Johnson was terrible. Seeing what Bricillo did in Las Vegas I am optimistic.
Also, we have to rely on them making the right moves whether the draft, FA or UDFA. Nothing changes.
The defense will likely be better than last year. I suspect a lot better.
At RB, we have been told over and over Barkley was nothing/overrated, so they probably didn't lose much and in fact will likely be better if the OL pans out.
It was not a bad chance on Waller - still caught 50 passes.
While I am not an optimist you are clearly pessimistic. everything you wrote expects the worst.
And FWIW, if the oline and Jones are "mediocre" they would likely win between 7 and 9 games. And yes, it would take them away from the QB arena. So what is your answer - tank from the get go? Are you going to root for loses?
Let's talk for fun. To start with -
Yes we agree at best Jones is mediocre. However I am skeptical he makes the whole year if we are to be a Passing team which no doubt we will try to be. SO to steal your phrase again - the signing of Jones last year and the moving forward with him is/was pissing in the wind. In addition if he gets hurt to a certain degree then the Giants also get screwed having to pay him for another year - regardless of the amount. Its more pissing away money. You agree?
So - it's reckless to count on him. So after the fact I feel they made mistakes this year and last with Jones, unlike them I would look to correct the problem and tank/ i.e. go with Lock if that is tanking. That's "the box" they put us in.
As for Waller- imo we overall continue to make excuses. So while you are providing further excuses for the GM- imo you should be looking at just more signs of recklessness just liek with Jones. Since when does a GM not get slammed if he maees moves that don't pan out while his team stinks with a celign of mediocre which is generous? You are seriously suggesting that the GM is blameless for going after Waller? If not, then what was teh point of your question?
Part of a GM's job is to recognize when he is in rebuild mode. Does the signings of Jones, Barkley and Waller appear to you that they had recognition this team was devoid of talent? **It took ONE OL to go down then the crummy line from this past year folded / crumbled in which they sucked the year before too That's not the coaching staff/ GM's fault for not recognizing that the prior year then leading into this year that they were devoid of talent? Of course it is. And we're supposed to shrug our shoulders and excuse the lack of talent in which the GM felt going after an old TE more of a priority because he had expacations to win when he should ahve known hsi team was devoid of talent? It's reckless.
If I were the GM at this draft - is that what you're asking? Because there is nothing that can be done now. Or are you talking about what needs to be done as a projection after this year if we are mediocre and still can't get a QB? The big problem is that JS went "Gettleman" on us adter the 2022 season not recognizing his team was a mirage. You don't try to do both at once rebuidl and win. Eventually the mron Gettleman was quoted as syaing this before he left.
And what would you have done in similar manner? Or are you okay as of right now?
And you call me a pessimist -- how is it I'm a pessimist when I say we are going to win 6-8 games? That they are projected to win 6.5. So why are you labelling me a pessimist? I dont cheerlead.
Why are you a pessimist? Look at your post. Everything is negative. No possibility of improvement. In fact, they should probably disband the team and shut down.
At least I wait until mid-season to get disgusted and even then I'll tune in next Sunday.
How are you going to survive until training camp with the pent up angst?
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In comment 16509108 section125 said:
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In comment 16509057 giantstock said:
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He won't be good. But the team could be mediocre - so it's as I've said before - the more mediocre the Giants are- then the lesser chance they get a top QB in the draft. Which means as fans we have to rely on the Giants making the right moves. Overall with the points I made- much of it doesn't sound like they have made the right moves so far, does it? OL not fixed. Still subpar QB. Major downgrade at RB, Wasted money on worthless TE. OL probably mediocre at best not built through the draft highly possible.
Yet the Defense while not “great" might be good enough to help get us 6-8 wins. And DJ while not terrible with a mediocre OL and a great WR gets us that assured 6-8 win"mediocrity."
So, we agree on Jones - mediocre at best
We disagree on oline - they have drafted several players last few years. They missed on some FAs that seemed solid. Why? Bobby Johnson.
Neither you nor I know what will happen when Bricillo gets ahold of these guys. I have no doubt that Johnson was terrible. Seeing what Bricillo did in Las Vegas I am optimistic.
Also, we have to rely on them making the right moves whether the draft, FA or UDFA. Nothing changes.
The defense will likely be better than last year. I suspect a lot better.
At RB, we have been told over and over Barkley was nothing/overrated, so they probably didn't lose much and in fact will likely be better if the OL pans out.
It was not a bad chance on Waller - still caught 50 passes.
While I am not an optimist you are clearly pessimistic. everything you wrote expects the worst.
And FWIW, if the oline and Jones are "mediocre" they would likely win between 7 and 9 games. And yes, it would take them away from the QB arena. So what is your answer - tank from the get go? Are you going to root for loses?
Let's talk for fun. To start with -
Yes we agree at best Jones is mediocre. However I am skeptical he makes the whole year if we are to be a Passing team which no doubt we will try to be. SO to steal your phrase again - the signing of Jones last year and the moving forward with him is/was pissing in the wind. In addition if he gets hurt to a certain degree then the Giants also get screwed having to pay him for another year - regardless of the amount. Its more pissing away money. You agree?
So - it's reckless to count on him. So after the fact I feel they made mistakes this year and last with Jones, unlike them I would look to correct the problem and tank/ i.e. go with Lock if that is tanking. That's "the box" they put us in.
As for Waller- imo we overall continue to make excuses. So while you are providing further excuses for the GM- imo you should be looking at just more signs of recklessness just liek with Jones. Since when does a GM not get slammed if he maees moves that don't pan out while his team stinks with a celign of mediocre which is generous? You are seriously suggesting that the GM is blameless for going after Waller? If not, then what was teh point of your question?
Part of a GM's job is to recognize when he is in rebuild mode. Does the signings of Jones, Barkley and Waller appear to you that they had recognition this team was devoid of talent? **It took ONE OL to go down then the crummy line from this past year folded / crumbled in which they sucked the year before too That's not the coaching staff/ GM's fault for not recognizing that the prior year then leading into this year that they were devoid of talent? Of course it is. And we're supposed to shrug our shoulders and excuse the lack of talent in which the GM felt going after an old TE more of a priority because he had expacations to win when he should ahve known hsi team was devoid of talent? It's reckless.
If I were the GM at this draft - is that what you're asking? Because there is nothing that can be done now. Or are you talking about what needs to be done as a projection after this year if we are mediocre and still can't get a QB? The big problem is that JS went "Gettleman" on us adter the 2022 season not recognizing his team was a mirage. You don't try to do both at once rebuidl and win. Eventually the mron Gettleman was quoted as syaing this before he left.
And what would you have done in similar manner? Or are you okay as of right now?
And you call me a pessimist -- how is it I'm a pessimist when I say we are going to win 6-8 games? That they are projected to win 6.5. So why are you labelling me a pessimist? I dont cheerlead.
Why are you a pessimist? Look at your post. Everything is negative. No possibility of improvement. In fact, they should probably disband the team and shut down.
At least I wait until mid-season to get disgusted and even then I'll tune in next Sunday.
How are you going to survive until training camp with the pent up angst?
Since when is 7 /8 wins not an imprvement? It seems like you just want to argue for argue sake. As I stated on this thread -- it's easy to understand I expect mediocrity. That's an improvement.
But it's also stuck in the middle. We build a mdeiocre team and yet you and others seem ot want to cheerlead for that mediocrity. That's the problem that has been prevalent here for many years. You've been beaten down.
** Please stop accepting long-term mediocrity other than at WR and w'eve seen where Jeferson and Hill take WR led teams. .
- The receiving group is obviously a plus
- The running back group, whatever you think of Barkley, is a minus
- The quarterback's health is a minus
- The offensive line on paper is a plus
I don't think the 2022 offense, which was predicated on running the football and throwing shorter, higher percentage passes is going to cut it again. Not without Barkley, and not with post-ACL Jones.
The 2023 offense, as it struggled, appeared to me to simply be an unsuccessful version of 2022.
What I don't want to see is Daboll "protecting" Jones or the young guys. Coach them up, give them confidence and be aggressive.
Jones's contract was written to do just that on 2024.
How are you going to survive until training camp with the pent up angst?
Since when is 7 /8 wins not an imprvement? It seems like you just want to argue for argue sake. As I stated on this thread -- it's easy to understand I expect mediocrity. That's an improvement.
But it's also stuck in the middle. We build a mdeiocre team and yet you and others seem ot want to cheerlead for that mediocrity. That's the problem that has been prevalent here for many years. You've been beaten down.
** Please stop accepting long-term mediocrity other than at WR and w'eve seen where Jeferson and Hill take WR led teams. . [/quote]
Do you know how to edit so that there isn't half a page of replies in your retort.
I am not the one arguing. I am replying to your nonsense.
I will say it is hard to write a coherent response succinctly with the back and forth. However, If you can tell me how to get from the garbage that they were to competitive without the process of bring in upgraded players a few at a time, then let me know. They limited by draft picks and cap space.
They had a very bad team with starting players that were backups on most teams. Each year those starters are being replaced by more talented players. In order to get to a good roster, you have to go through mediocre from poor.
There is no doubt that the oline is the worst group on the team and it has the biggest influence on the team's ability to win, next to QB. For whatever reason the line has sucked to 10+ years. Fix the line and a decent offense will appear, even with a mediocre QB.
I am not applauding mediocrity. It is a step in the building process. Get to mediocre then upgrade a few more positions.
No doubt Schoen and Daboll effed up last year thinking they were ahead of their transformation. Now they are doing what they should have done last year.
And stop blaming others for your position. You want to complain where the team is at and expect others to join your pity party. Others have a realistic outlook at the rebuild and understand the Giants had so many subpar players that it will take a couple season to correct. Yes, it should have started in earnest last year. And no Jones should not have been re-signed at that contract number.
But here is where they are now. Here is where they will need to play from this season. These are the players they have this year. Not saying you need to be happy. But you do need the accept that there is no magic bullet available this season that will put them in the playoffs unless Daboll(and Bricillo) does an even better job coaching than in 2022. There is no doubt this team has much better players than in 2022.
I may be wrong, but Carmen Bricillo is the most important coach on the team.
I may be wrong, but Carmen Bricillo is the most important coach on the team.
Your post is complete gullible bullshit. Allow me “to reply “and “not argue.” LMAO.
Lesson #1 I am not a cheerleader like you and some others. When you bitched about me being negative – I can recognize the team has sucked many of these years and instead of making the laughable cheerleading posts you tend to make – I’m asking you to stop being such an excuse-riddled fan that accepts anything the awful organization has done and then call it "A building process."
Lesson#2 – Relating to lesson $#1 you need to learn is that the Giants tell us every year “It’s a building process.” And every year kids like you are too naive to understand that they are taking advantage of your lack of ability to understand. Does the building process include a QB frequently hurt that has only had 1 good year of 6 in which his latest year resulted in yet another injury? That's how you "build?"
Lesson# 3—And this leads from# 2—the organization should have understood they had lack of talent after 2022. Instead they were stupid and felt they could win. And now we have the excuse-naïve posters like you just shrug off their stupidity and throw out the same cliché “we’re in a rebuilding process.” It’s not my problem that you and/or others weren’t smart enough to realize what the Giants were doing last year was moronic. And instead you just shrug off their blunders. When someone whose team crumbles, I tend to lose some confidence in them instead of being as naïve as you seem to be.
Lesson# 4—This is highlighted by the OL which you just commented on but seem to shrug off the epic OL of 2023. You have to understand that we didn’t come close to fixing the OL these last two years– we reverted to the Gettelman-cringe program. Yet your cheerleading shrugs off the last few years and blindly accepting they are on the right track. Imagine that a Giants fan saying his team is on the right track now. I view their failure of the OL as “not doing enough/ or incompetent in their selections.” Is what I said wrong? Up until this point they have been incompetent with the OL thus far.
Lesson #5 – Posters like you cheerlead the OL moves right now. I hope you are right but the OL is still highly questionable with more FA money thrown in because so far their picks have sucked. How does that make anyone feel ok with their current moves? And the Pro Scout on this site, lot more competent than you and your cheerleading has referred to our OL as “a bunch of maybes,” that shouldn’t be ignored. SO what’s our ceiling at the OL the next few years in our “building block process?” It’s mediocrity.
Lesson #6A – If I were the GM I wouldn’t have been as moronic as The Giants were and I would’ve realized that 2022 was an anomaly. Get a much cheaper subpar QB and take my lumps seeing how Jones wanted too much. But with the moment they decide to keep Jones and Barkley, the OL would have been my priority. I believe in Harbaugh’s philosophy “The OL is the tip of the spear.” I'm not so sure the Giants feel this way or maybe just not competent to fix it. But it’s typical posters like you are okay with how the Giants have done but that’s because you accept mediocrity. Instead they go after an over-the-hill TE and posters like you excuse the blunder.
Lesson 6b: What I would have done this year? I would have hired scouts I can trust. One scout I would hire is SY. And what would have been SY’s 1st pick? It would have been the QB. I would have also entertained trading back to get a QB if I didn’t want JJM. Apparently the rest of the NFL thought pretty highly of the 3 qB’s. I’m not so sure I trust JS and BD.
Lesson 7: Please stop being such a cheerleader and recognize that your heroes have thus far caused some considerable concern of their competency. Though I’m hopeful- we’ll see how it plays out. But you are too naïve and as a result have been too gullible in trusting the year-over-year building process.