Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Given that there was no free agency or salary cap at the time, and the game wasn't as dominated by passing, I probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Simms.
I answered your question. Now answer mine: what does Phil Simms have to do with Daniel Jones?
Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Given that there was no free agency or salary cap at the time, and the game wasn't as dominated by passing, I probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Simms.
I answered your question. Now answer mine: what does Phil Simms have to do with Daniel Jones?
I never stated or insinuated that they did.
Based on your repeated threads about turning over less than stellar QBs after a couple of years, I simply asked;
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
Very simple question. Thanks for finally answering it.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
The point holds: Jones has stunk, currently stinks, and will likely continue to stink. Phil Simms in 1983 is irrelevant.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
This is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. You're in a thread about DJ, engaging in a conversation with a poster who was talking about DJ, bringing up a former Giant QB who DJ often gets compared to. You weren't looking for an answer from Terps, you were looking for an "aha! Gotcha" because you didn't explicitly say Jones name.
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
If there's an "anti Jones club", I'm a card-carrying member. I obviously don't think he's the worst NFL QB of all time, but I don't think he's that good & we're spining our wheels @ this point with him. Nothing against the guy personally-I have no animus towards him-but I just think we could do a helluva lot better at the position.
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
This is precious. You being a devoted member of the DJFC how many posts praising Jones have you “checked”? We have an asshole on here, Jack Stroud that constantly claims Jones is an elite QB, one of the best in the NFL. He literally said with a straight face that he’s better than Joe Burrow. And he’s posted this stuff incessantly so I KNOW you’ve seen many of his posts. Have you ever “checked” him on that? Or any other post waxing poetic about Jones? So spare me your personal bias bullshit. There is playoffs bias floating around here, including from you, clown
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
This is precious. You being a devoted member of the DJFC how many posts praising Jones have you “checked”? We have an asshole on here, Jack Stroud that constantly claims Jones is an elite QB, one of the best in the NFL. He literally said with a straight face that he’s better than Joe Burrow. And he’s posted this stuff incessantly so I KNOW you’ve seen many of his posts. Have you ever “checked” him on that? Or any other post waxing poetic about Jones? So spare me your personal bias bullshit. There is playoffs bias floating around here, including from you, clown
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
Just for the record, I made the claim that he is "arguably" the worst quarterback in NFL history who has at least 50 starts. And I stand by it.
He is currently the worst active quarterback in the NFL in terms of winning percentage (.375). And that includes his three closest comps, Darnold (.433), Mariota (.467) and Trubisky (.535).
Only 7 quarterbacks in the Super Bowl Era have a lower winning percentage than DJ. Of these, Archie Manning, Norm Snead, Jeff Blake, Jeff George, Chris Miller and Josh McCown either had multiple years that were better than anything DJ has ever done and/or accumulated nearly double the number of TDs and passing yards that DJ has thus far compiled.
So that leaves DJ v Mike Pagel as the two worst quarterbacks in NFL history with more than 50 starts. You want to argue DJ is better than Mike Pagel? Fine. But keep this in mind. Mike Pagel was only a starter for two years. He was a career backup who simply started and played in a lot of games during his spectacularly atrocious career. And I can assure you that there is not a single person in the entire spectrum of fandom that would ever claim that Mike Pagel was anything but a spectacularly atrocious quarterback.
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
How many times do I have to be right on this guy to be right? He's been shit for five years and we're still playing the "let it play out" game.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
"Whoa. Tough crowd. Tough crowd."
The name calling, the baseless allegations, I'm shocked.
All this over one little innocuous question questions where a simple yes or no would have sufficed. This could take weeks, months to get over.
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
How many times do I have to be right on this guy to be right? He's been shit for five years and we're still playing the "let it play out" game.
You wanted to draft him and left the site when they made the playoffs. You have zero credibility despite what your small fan club wants to believe.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
The name calling, the baseless allegations, I'm shocked.
All this over one little innocuous question questions where a simple yes or no would have sufficed.
You made the implication of a silly comparison, and you got your balls busted. This is the way.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
So no opinions in advance then. Basically, a site where we observe and make descriptive comments only until something happens. Rear view window opinions only so everyone will simultaneously always be right and always in agreement. That sounds like kumbaya on a scale even bigger than DJ's offseason activities!
Eric will probably need to change the name of the site though. Maybe something like Big Blue Indifference? Maybe we can add a special section with poster contributions to spice things up a bit when things are slow. Stuff like the home movies of George Costanza's boyhood trip to Michigan would be perfect for this!
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
I'm fine with the topic. It just seems like it's not a conversation anymore but people talking at and putting each other down. There are some reasonable people on both sides but then there are others that have the heels dug in and don't give a shit what anyone says.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
The last part of your post is exactly what I am talking about. Have you not witnessed posters on this site make statements that are formatted as a conclusion? Perhaps you don't think that people make conclusions when there is not a conclusion yet? I think people do this often. They are certain their outcome will be the conclusion. This happens for both posters with a positive point of view on Jones and the ones with a negative point of view (not all of them).
For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
RE: RE: RE: RE: By far my least interesting BBI statements
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
So no opinions in advance then. Basically, a site where we observe and make descriptive comments only until something happens. Rear view window opinions only so everyone will simultaneously always be right and always in agreement. That sounds like kumbaya on a scale even bigger than DJ's offseason activities!
Eric will probably need to change the name of the site though. Maybe something like Big Blue Indifference? Maybe we can add a special section with poster contributions to spice things up a bit when things are slow. Stuff like the home movies of George Costanza's boyhood trip to Michigan would be perfect for this!
For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
I think lots of people on this site use bad evidence to form their opinions, whether that be of the incomplete, untrue, or non-applicable variety.
At the risk of being more semantically obnoxious than normal, my objection is the notion fans "let it play out."
Fans can't let it play out, because fans aren't actually involved.
For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
I think lots of people on this site use bad evidence to form their opinions, whether that be of the incomplete, untrue, or non-applicable variety.
At the risk of being more semantically obnoxious than normal, my objection is the notion fans "let it play out."
Fans can't let it play out, because fans aren't actually involved.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
I think that many of us simply are looking forward to seeing what the professionals have come up with.
While I respect the opinions of the peanut gallery, (I am part of it) I look forward to seeing how the next version of the team will look every season.
Several in our little group of overly confident nuts have made statements of fact. Statements based on what they think that they know...which in my experience is more emotion than real knowledge.
IMO, if they want to be taken seriously, they have to allow for opinions that differ from their own. Which means, stating their opinions as just that, rather than as fact.
Excuses to one are simply legitimate reasons to others.
Im on the fence with Jones simply because those with the most expertise decided that replacing him with Nix, McCarthy or Penix was less valuable than adding Nabers.
It suggests that Nabers was viewed as a better way to improve the team. Which also suggests that they don't view Jones as the liability that some here believe him to be.
Im not sold on Jones, but Im looking forward to seeing it play out.
Those with the expertise saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Not necessarily. The college scouts wouldn’t be involved with the re-signing of Jones so if they gave reports highly critical of any or all of those 3 QB’s we do not know. I can fully admit Jones’s limitations while simultaneously hoping that the remote possibility of him leading us to the Super Bowl takes place. I have been critical of those who might also agree that we need to move on from Jones, but also want to see us fail so they can say they were right.
Daniel Jones isn’t bringing any of the boys together on this thread.
I'm cautiously optimistic Schoen and Daboll are good talent evaluators and developers. They are both bright, and seemingly self aware guys. This is in direct contrast to the last set of characters. It's a plus, but doesn't necessarily guarantee they are good football program managers.
They both have exhibited some warnings signs as well. The batting average on player acquisitions hasn't been impressive. And the coaching staff hires have been pretty poor.
I admit that I am using “conclude” in correctly. Conclude can simply mean arriving at an opinion. I have zero problem with fans arriving at an opinion. The problem for me would be concluding (coming to an end) without understanding that a concluded opinion does not shut the case necessarily. I think it is a good to keep an open mind no matter how sure we are of our opinions. I struggle with this too and often have to be reminded because I literally do it without realizing it.
I apologize for my lack of clarity with my thoughts.
I admit that I am using “conclude” in correctly. Conclude can simply mean arriving at an opinion. I have zero problem with fans arriving at an opinion. The problem for me would be concluding (coming to an end) without understanding that a concluded opinion does not shut the case necessarily. I think it is a good to keep an open mind no matter how sure we are of our opinions. I struggle with this too and often have to be reminded because I literally do it without realizing it.
I apologize for my lack of clarity with my thoughts.
Those with the expertise saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Not necessarily. The college scouts wouldn’t be involved with the re-signing of Jones so if they gave reports highly critical of any or all of those 3 QB’s we do not know. I can fully admit Jones’s limitations while simultaneously hoping that the remote possibility of him leading us to the Super Bowl takes place. I have been critical of those who might also agree that we need to move on from Jones, but also want to see us fail so they can say they were right.
It's not about being right. It's about wanting the Giants to be a competitive team again.
It really is amazing we are still discussing Daniel Jones
I really did think Schoen was going to draft a QB. But, to still have people referencing Simms and Manning to prop up Jones is just so ridiculous to me. Jones is entering year 6. It's ridiculous.
He has a very similar career to Mitch Trubisky. The only difference is the playoff win. Good for Jones, he played very well in that playoff win and he earned it. However, Blake Bortles and Case Keenum have playoff wins too. Among others who NYG fans wouldn't consider "franchise QBs". We've got Giant fans critical of Lamar Jackson. It's absurd.
And regarding Trubisky, he was drafted in 2017, only 2 years before Jones. The Bears have already moved on twice at QB since then (Trubisky & Fields).
But, let's still bring up Simms.
RE: It really is amazing we are still discussing Daniel Jones
I really did think Schoen was going to draft a QB. But, to still have people referencing Simms and Manning to prop up Jones is just so ridiculous to me. Jones is entering year 6. It's ridiculous.
He has a very similar career to Mitch Trubisky. The only difference is the playoff win. Good for Jones, he played very well in that playoff win and he earned it. However, Blake Bortles and Case Keenum have playoff wins too. Among others who NYG fans wouldn't consider "franchise QBs". We've got Giant fans critical of Lamar Jackson. It's absurd.
And regarding Trubisky, he was drafted in 2017, only 2 years before Jones. The Bears have already moved on twice at QB since then (Trubisky & Fields).
But, let's still bring up Simms.
People who bring up Simms in an effort to prop up Jones aren't serious people. This is 2024, not 1984.
1) Put aside the economic considerations, do you believe the Phil Simms scenario has a high, medium, low, of incredibly low chance or happening again?
2) What do you think is higher odds -- a younger and/or more durable quarterback acquired in the draft or by other means wins a championship or Daniel Jones does?
3) What do you think is more likely, Daniel Jones leaves and enjoys great success at Giants' embarrassment or Daniel Jones stays and plays poorly at the Giants' embarrassment?
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Quote:
Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Given that there was no free agency or salary cap at the time, and the game wasn't as dominated by passing, I probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Simms.
I answered your question. Now answer mine: what does Phil Simms have to do with Daniel Jones?
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In comment 16544971 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Given that there was no free agency or salary cap at the time, and the game wasn't as dominated by passing, I probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Simms.
I answered your question. Now answer mine: what does Phil Simms have to do with Daniel Jones?
I never stated or insinuated that they did.
Based on your repeated threads about turning over less than stellar QBs after a couple of years, I simply asked;
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
Very simple question. Thanks for finally answering it.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
Quote:
The point holds: Jones has stunk, currently stinks, and will likely continue to stink. Phil Simms in 1983 is irrelevant.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
This is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. You're in a thread about DJ, engaging in a conversation with a poster who was talking about DJ, bringing up a former Giant QB who DJ often gets compared to. You weren't looking for an answer from Terps, you were looking for an "aha! Gotcha" because you didn't explicitly say Jones name.
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
Quote:
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
Quote:
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
I think the argument is that no quarterback as bad as he is has gotten this much opportunity as a "franchise QB".
And that might be accurate, at least in the FA/salary cap era. I can't recall a QB this poor getting a sixth season as the unquestioned starter.
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In comment 16545097 Giantsbigblue said:
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Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
This is precious. You being a devoted member of the DJFC how many posts praising Jones have you “checked”? We have an asshole on here, Jack Stroud that constantly claims Jones is an elite QB, one of the best in the NFL. He literally said with a straight face that he’s better than Joe Burrow. And he’s posted this stuff incessantly so I KNOW you’ve seen many of his posts. Have you ever “checked” him on that? Or any other post waxing poetic about Jones? So spare me your personal bias bullshit. There is playoffs bias floating around here, including from you, clown
Absolutely. Agreed 100% and I’ve said it numerous of times. He’s either a troll or the dumbest MFer on the planet
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
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In comment 16545147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16545097 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
This is precious. You being a devoted member of the DJFC how many posts praising Jones have you “checked”? We have an asshole on here, Jack Stroud that constantly claims Jones is an elite QB, one of the best in the NFL. He literally said with a straight face that he’s better than Joe Burrow. And he’s posted this stuff incessantly so I KNOW you’ve seen many of his posts. Have you ever “checked” him on that? Or any other post waxing poetic about Jones? So spare me your personal bias bullshit. There is playoffs bias floating around here, including from you, clown
You still hurt from Daniels being skinny sweetie?
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
Quote:
In comment 16545097 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
Just for the record, I made the claim that he is "arguably" the worst quarterback in NFL history who has at least 50 starts. And I stand by it.
He is currently the worst active quarterback in the NFL in terms of winning percentage (.375). And that includes his three closest comps, Darnold (.433), Mariota (.467) and Trubisky (.535).
Only 7 quarterbacks in the Super Bowl Era have a lower winning percentage than DJ. Of these, Archie Manning, Norm Snead, Jeff Blake, Jeff George, Chris Miller and Josh McCown either had multiple years that were better than anything DJ has ever done and/or accumulated nearly double the number of TDs and passing yards that DJ has thus far compiled.
So that leaves DJ v Mike Pagel as the two worst quarterbacks in NFL history with more than 50 starts. You want to argue DJ is better than Mike Pagel? Fine. But keep this in mind. Mike Pagel was only a starter for two years. He was a career backup who simply started and played in a lot of games during his spectacularly atrocious career. And I can assure you that there is not a single person in the entire spectrum of fandom that would ever claim that Mike Pagel was anything but a spectacularly atrocious quarterback.
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Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
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In comment 16545182 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
How many times do I have to be right on this guy to be right? He's been shit for five years and we're still playing the "let it play out" game.
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Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
"Whoa. Tough crowd. Tough crowd."
The name calling, the baseless allegations, I'm shocked.
All this over one little innocuous question questions where a simple yes or no would have sufficed. This could take weeks, months to get over.
Nah, I'm good.
Peace and love brothers.
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In comment 16545201 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16545182 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
How many times do I have to be right on this guy to be right? He's been shit for five years and we're still playing the "let it play out" game.
You wanted to draft him and left the site when they made the playoffs. You have zero credibility despite what your small fan club wants to believe.
The name calling, the baseless allegations, I'm shocked.
All this over one little innocuous question questions where a simple yes or no would have sufficed.
You made the implication of a silly comparison, and you got your balls busted. This is the way.
2. How long did it take Simms and Manning to be successful?
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
2. How long did it take Simms and Manning to be successful?
Exactly right. And please add "I trust Gettleman/Schoen and Judge/Daboll a lot more than the opinions of anybody on BBI."
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1. Let it play out.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
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1. Let it play out.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Bump it up to a case of Keystone Ice and we can have it.
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In comment 16545448 Sean said:
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1. Let it play out.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
So no opinions in advance then. Basically, a site where we observe and make descriptive comments only until something happens. Rear view window opinions only so everyone will simultaneously always be right and always in agreement. That sounds like kumbaya on a scale even bigger than DJ's offseason activities!
Eric will probably need to change the name of the site though. Maybe something like Big Blue Indifference? Maybe we can add a special section with poster contributions to spice things up a bit when things are slow. Stuff like the home movies of George Costanza's boyhood trip to Michigan would be perfect for this!
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
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I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
I'm fine with the topic. It just seems like it's not a conversation anymore but people talking at and putting each other down. There are some reasonable people on both sides but then there are others that have the heels dug in and don't give a shit what anyone says.
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I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
The last part of your post is exactly what I am talking about. Have you not witnessed posters on this site make statements that are formatted as a conclusion? Perhaps you don't think that people make conclusions when there is not a conclusion yet? I think people do this often. They are certain their outcome will be the conclusion. This happens for both posters with a positive point of view on Jones and the ones with a negative point of view (not all of them).
For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
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In comment 16545482 christian said:
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In comment 16545448 Sean said:
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1. Let it play out.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
So no opinions in advance then. Basically, a site where we observe and make descriptive comments only until something happens. Rear view window opinions only so everyone will simultaneously always be right and always in agreement. That sounds like kumbaya on a scale even bigger than DJ's offseason activities!
Eric will probably need to change the name of the site though. Maybe something like Big Blue Indifference? Maybe we can add a special section with poster contributions to spice things up a bit when things are slow. Stuff like the home movies of George Costanza's boyhood trip to Michigan would be perfect for this!
You are not reading well.
I think lots of people on this site use bad evidence to form their opinions, whether that be of the incomplete, untrue, or non-applicable variety.
At the risk of being more semantically obnoxious than normal, my objection is the notion fans "let it play out."
Fans can't let it play out, because fans aren't actually involved.
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For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
I think lots of people on this site use bad evidence to form their opinions, whether that be of the incomplete, untrue, or non-applicable variety.
At the risk of being more semantically obnoxious than normal, my objection is the notion fans "let it play out."
Fans can't let it play out, because fans aren't actually involved.
So I didn’t win the case of natty ice?
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I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
While I respect the opinions of the peanut gallery, (I am part of it) I look forward to seeing how the next version of the team will look every season.
Several in our little group of overly confident nuts have made statements of fact. Statements based on what they think that they know...which in my experience is more emotion than real knowledge.
IMO, if they want to be taken seriously, they have to allow for opinions that differ from their own. Which means, stating their opinions as just that, rather than as fact.
Excuses to one are simply legitimate reasons to others.
Im on the fence with Jones simply because those with the most expertise decided that replacing him with Nix, McCarthy or Penix was less valuable than adding Nabers.
It suggests that Nabers was viewed as a better way to improve the team. Which also suggests that they don't view Jones as the liability that some here believe him to be.
Im not sold on Jones, but Im looking forward to seeing it play out.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Not necessarily. The college scouts wouldn’t be involved with the re-signing of Jones so if they gave reports highly critical of any or all of those 3 QB’s we do not know. I can fully admit Jones’s limitations while simultaneously hoping that the remote possibility of him leading us to the Super Bowl takes place. I have been critical of those who might also agree that we need to move on from Jones, but also want to see us fail so they can say they were right.
They both have exhibited some warnings signs as well. The batting average on player acquisitions hasn't been impressive. And the coaching staff hires have been pretty poor.
I apologize for my lack of clarity with my thoughts.
I apologize for my lack of clarity with my thoughts.
Excellent point. We all need to remember it.
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Those with the expertise saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Not necessarily. The college scouts wouldn’t be involved with the re-signing of Jones so if they gave reports highly critical of any or all of those 3 QB’s we do not know. I can fully admit Jones’s limitations while simultaneously hoping that the remote possibility of him leading us to the Super Bowl takes place. I have been critical of those who might also agree that we need to move on from Jones, but also want to see us fail so they can say they were right.
It's not about being right. It's about wanting the Giants to be a competitive team again.
He has a very similar career to Mitch Trubisky. The only difference is the playoff win. Good for Jones, he played very well in that playoff win and he earned it. However, Blake Bortles and Case Keenum have playoff wins too. Among others who NYG fans wouldn't consider "franchise QBs". We've got Giant fans critical of Lamar Jackson. It's absurd.
And regarding Trubisky, he was drafted in 2017, only 2 years before Jones. The Bears have already moved on twice at QB since then (Trubisky & Fields).
But, let's still bring up Simms.
He has a very similar career to Mitch Trubisky. The only difference is the playoff win. Good for Jones, he played very well in that playoff win and he earned it. However, Blake Bortles and Case Keenum have playoff wins too. Among others who NYG fans wouldn't consider "franchise QBs". We've got Giant fans critical of Lamar Jackson. It's absurd.
And regarding Trubisky, he was drafted in 2017, only 2 years before Jones. The Bears have already moved on twice at QB since then (Trubisky & Fields).
But, let's still bring up Simms.
People who bring up Simms in an effort to prop up Jones aren't serious people. This is 2024, not 1984.
1) Put aside the economic considerations, do you believe the Phil Simms scenario has a high, medium, low, of incredibly low chance or happening again?
2) What do you think is higher odds -- a younger and/or more durable quarterback acquired in the draft or by other means wins a championship or Daniel Jones does?
3) What do you think is more likely, Daniel Jones leaves and enjoys great success at Giants' embarrassment or Daniel Jones stays and plays poorly at the Giants' embarrassment?