Full disclosure. My wife is the Star Wars geek. I was more the Star Trek geek (that is, until the latest reboot destroyed Vulcan... I was out at that point). I've gone to the Star Wars movies more out of habit than enjoyment since the original trilogy. I didn't enjoy the second trilogy at all except the stormtrooper scenes. I enjoyed Force Awakens, but I quickly realized I enjoyed it because they had simply copied A New Hope. The last movie was abysmal... just a trainwreck.
As an aside, the cartoon series Clone Wars was really good and I think they are doing a reasonable job with Mandalorian (though it's obviously been made less dark for kids).
But if you are following the YouTube "Fandom Menance" channels and the corporate media trying to save the upcoming movie before it even comes out, the outright attacks on the core fanbase are unbelievable. They are literally biting the hand that feeds them. It would be like if the NFL came out and told its fans to shut-up and that your opinions don't matter. (Now they may actually think that, but even they aren't stupid enough to say it publicly).
Solo doesn't count.
Have to admit I saw the first two opening this weekend and while Ill probably see this one as well I dont have the same sense of urgency. For me it has nothing to do with Disney I just dont really give a shit about Star Wars anymore. There are so many movies and shows, etc. I am just kind of opting out. If anything I will probably only see this one because I saw the last two. But I didnt like Rogue One, didnt see Solo, havent watched Mandalorian and dont plan to.
I am not really interested in these big franchises. I have not seen 95% of the Marvel movies, have no interest in rebooted Ghostbusters, etc. Star Wars is in that category for me now. Will see this one at some point and then probably not anything else.
I still assume this movie will make billions.
Of course I have my theories, but it'll send this thread down a rabbit hole we likely don't want.
Solo doesn't count.
My wife agrees. Maybe they something... another Leia floating in space perhaps?
The Last Jedi was an embarrassment.
They all suck, although I admit to liking Rogue One. Its the only modern SW that doesn't pander to modern children. It pandered more to adults who were kids when the original SW came out like me.
Maybe the cast of the Big Bang Theory
TLJ was an abortion of a movie that should never have happened, and IMO it was so in service of a particular agenda that I cringed in the theater at some of the shit. Not to mention mary poppins Leia and hyperspace ramming and completely destroying Luke's character.
I really don't want to take the thread down a bad direction but the problem is that people who criticized TLJ for any of its innumerable faults have been labeled as toxic, or a man-baby, and of course misogynistic/racist/whatever-ist by people who see those traits in any dissension from their point of view... and unfortunately mainstream media has repeated this smear attack on the SW fans.
Also, This might be a hot take, but IMO Rouge One is my favorite Star Wars movie ever. Perhaps because I saw the OT as a kid and perhaps didn't really appreciate them as much as I would have as an adult, but man, I really loved Rogue One.
As for the OP, most "hard core" Star Wars fans that I've been around are unreasonable assholes, its like they will its their IP. Not defending Disney, just pointing out something about the fanbase that's always bothered me.
It's like they skip using a Quality Control test audience.
Not even for the filming, but the plot.
I did like Rogue One (to be fair). But Last Jedi -What a shit show. Luke is drinking tit-milk from an alien sea-cow?
And that ending, holy shit-snacks was that stupid.
The Last Jedi was an embarrassment.
+1. I did like Rogue One as well. Still not sure how the blind dude beat up everyone with a stick though. . . .
I am really trying not to get political, but Disney is in your face with this stuff and attacks anyone who complains.
They have practically taken over RottenTomatoes to tamper down dissent.
Sorry in advance if this is considered political and understand if the post is removed.
The early movies had bad acting, bad special effects, bad costumes and fairly predictable storylines. That really hasn't changed.
Just enjoy the movies. They weren't ever meant to be cinematic treasures. Then or now.
You can be a true fan of Star Wars and hate TLJ with a burning passion. I'm one of them. Unless you're going to tell me that the more than 50 SW EU books I've read don't count anymore because Disney de-cannonized them and then had the nerve to use the excuse that they don't have any source material ;)
It is kind of crazy how long they have struggled to write a good story given how vast the SW universe is.
The early movies had bad acting, bad special effects, bad costumes and fairly predictable storylines. That really hasn't changed.
Just enjoy the movies. They weren't ever meant to be cinematic treasures. Then or now.
My thoughts exactly, but the super Star Wars nerds who nitpick everything about the movies are so annoying. Just enjoy the film.
Then the ridiculous romance between Padme and Anakin in Attack of the Clones...it felt so forced, and again Hayden Christensen's overacting as Anakin.
Despite all of this in the prequel trilogy, it was actually decent story-telling, with some other great characters like Qui-Gon Jinn, Count Dooku, Mace Windu, and Darth Maul.
They missed again with General Grievous but he at least gave us a pretty good fight scene.
Then came this god-forsaken Disney-driven trash, where they just re-packaged A New Hope and turned the franchise into a SJW infomercial. It became more about gender and race rather than writing a compelling story with great characters. And to top it off, destroyed the legacy of the characters in the original trilogy.
What they did to Luke Skywalker was disgusting.
The only thing I can say, is that the performance of Adam Driver as Kylo Ren might be the only good thing about The Last Jedi.
They will make an obscene amount of money again, but they've destroyed the franchise.
Listen, there will never another original trilogy. It just wont happen. Hell, even Lucas couldnt do it. But jesus christ, Luke dies from Force exhaustion. Leia does a fucking mary poppins. It was bad. I hear the argument "it was a different movie and just wasnt the same SW formula". True but there is different and POS different. THis was POS different.
Disney got it real right with Rogue One. That had to be the best SW movie in a long time.
I will take the last movie for what it is. The ending of my childhood. Time to grow up i guess.
But its funny to read about how amazing the originals were. Empire is the best for me (with Rogue One), but they are still chock full of atrocious writing and acting. I don't know why people get so pissed about it.
Fantastic video. Spot on.
The early movies had bad acting, bad special effects, bad costumes and fairly predictable storylines. That really hasn't changed.
Just enjoy the movies. They weren't ever meant to be cinematic treasures. Then or now.
Ok, Hamill was bad. He wasn't a good actor in the OT. But he was saved by Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford, and Alec Guinness, and tremendous voice of James Earl Jones. There were enough good acting performances to overlook Hamill. Ironically, I felt Hamill was the best actor in TLJ. It was the story, coupled with great villains with Vader and the Emperor, that made that OT so fun.
This latest trilogy isn't fun when you feel the story is less important than the political messaging they are forcing into it.
We just watched The Return of the Jedi and it is comical to see the costumes used in that movie. Jabba's guards look like they are wearing outfits from a discount rack in a Halloween store. Luke is schreeching at shit.
The Phantom Menace just continued the farce. And that should be OK. Jar Jar Binks was no more nonsensical than the parade of misfits in Jabba's Den.
If it's done well, nobody cares. When the story suffers because of it, then the criticism is deserved.
Fantastic video. Spot on.
share. would love to watch
TLJ: OMG it's too different
That's not to say they're perfect, but Disney is trying to cater to a fanbase that will never be happy unless the movie panders to their own ideas of how the story should go. And because the hardcore base is generally well versed in the EU/Legends Disney is fighting against expectations from that as well.
Ultimately I think the big flaw was trying to have 3 different writers/directors. The ST should have had a unifying vision from the start beyond just KKs oversight.
Bitching and moaning and whining.
If I were Obi-Wan I would have been like "you know what? fuck this"
ROTJ had its moments but Christ- the older I get - those fucking ewoks.
My rank
1) ESB
2) ANH
3) Rogue One
Well, I'm guessing that if a poster thinks having a female lead and an African-American cast is pandering to the SJW group, they are probably triggered pretty easily, and have already wiped out of memory Leia, Natalie Portman and Lando Calrissian:)
This is very satsifying for most SW fans...
Examples:
1) Reference to Life Day (even though the HS was a travesty)
2) Species/Droids make appearances - Ugnauts, Quarren, IG, Dewbacks, Jawas, etc.
3) Planets and ships like Tat and XWing make appearances.
Simple stuff like this causes us to geek out
Of course I have my theories, but it'll send this thread down a rabbit hole we likely don't want.
That dingbat pushes an extreme social justice agenda, killing the franchise.
Marvel people are actual fans and have for the most part kept away from an agenda.
TLJ: OMG it's too different
That's not to say they're perfect, but Disney is trying to cater to a fanbase that will never be happy unless the movie panders to their own ideas of how the story should go. And because the hardcore base is generally well versed in the EU/Legends Disney is fighting against expectations from that as well.
Ultimately I think the big flaw was trying to have 3 different writers/directors. The ST should have had a unifying vision from the start beyond just KKs oversight.
I couldn't disagree more. I think the SW fanbase was ready and willing to embrace the new movies. Remember when Yoda fought Dooku in Attack of the Clones? Star Wars fans LOVED it. To see Yoda as not just a wise mentor but a warrior was awesome. They took a character we knew and grew his legacy and story.
To make Luke Skywalker a hermit on a remote planet and to die of force exhaustion was the complete opposite. Instead of enhancing his legacy, they soiled it and changed it into something unrecognizable to the character we cared about.
Of course I have my theories, but it'll send this thread down a rabbit hole we likely don't want.
We may be wrong, but this is my view also. Not so much in the social view sense, but simply all the ridiculousness of the movie, how it basically crapped on everything the universe we knew counted on.
I do think she's kinda realized this with the blowback from TLJ - or at least, Disney did.
I actually was skeptical going to Solo, but it was pretty solid. It made me wonder (I have no clue) if the last second hiring of Ron Howard to salvage it to something more of a begruding acceptance from her that the 'old way' was better.
TLJ: OMG it's too different
That's not to say they're perfect, but Disney is trying to cater to a fanbase that will never be happy unless the movie panders to their own ideas of how the story should go. And because the hardcore base is generally well versed in the EU/Legends Disney is fighting against expectations from that as well.
Ultimately I think the big flaw was trying to have 3 different writers/directors. The ST should have had a unifying vision from the start beyond just KKs oversight.
I agree with this 100%. Disney fucked up by not creating an overall arc for the three movies and trying to just let three different writers figure it out as they went. Abrams left a bunch of open ended ideas with TFA and Rian Johnson just said fuck that and took a torch to everything he started.
Quote:
political overtones in movies, just as I ignore them in real life. Its pretty crazy that it can bother people that much in a movie, to each their own I guess.
Well, I'm guessing that if a poster thinks having a female lead and an African-American cast is pandering to the SJW group, they are probably triggered pretty easily, and have already wiped out of memory Leia, Natalie Portman and Lando Calrissian:)
That's not it at all. I was all ready to embrace Rey and Finn. I actually think Finn is an interesting character. But they didn't execute these characters very well in the writing, and neither have been very believable in their roles. It's been the totality of the story lines being so SJW-driven, though, not that these two characters are female and black.
The issue is more with fans themselves. The most common complaints of TLJ make very little sense to me.
Why is the Clone Wars cartoon and KOTOR better than the movies?
Top 4 -
- Empire
- A New Hope
- Rogue One
- Revenge of The Sith
Top 4 -
- Empire
- A New Hope
- Rogue One
- Revenge of The Sith
I agree and thing it is unfairly lumped in with the other prequels. It's a great action adventure movie.
It's not just the modern day political subcontext, it's idiotic stuff like Rey being able to defeat Kylo Ren in the first movie without ANY Jedi training. (1) So why did Luke or any other Jedi ever need ANY training? and (2) She's already beaten the dude. When it happens again, so what?
It's crap like that. Just lazy, stupid writing.
Quote:
TFA: OMG it's too similar to ANH
TLJ: OMG it's too different
That's not to say they're perfect, but Disney is trying to cater to a fanbase that will never be happy unless the movie panders to their own ideas of how the story should go. And because the hardcore base is generally well versed in the EU/Legends Disney is fighting against expectations from that as well.
Ultimately I think the big flaw was trying to have 3 different writers/directors. The ST should have had a unifying vision from the start beyond just KKs oversight.
I couldn't disagree more. I think the SW fanbase was ready and willing to embrace the new movies. Remember when Yoda fought Dooku in Attack of the Clones? Star Wars fans LOVED it. To see Yoda as not just a wise mentor but a warrior was awesome. They took a character we knew and grew his legacy and story.
To make Luke Skywalker a hermit on a remote planet and to die of force exhaustion was the complete opposite. Instead of enhancing his legacy, they soiled it and changed it into something unrecognizable to the character we cared about.
I have no problem with Luke being flawed, though it certainly could have been written better.
And while the ST diminishes the ending of RotJ, it's helped paint a picture that things in the GFFA aren't too rosy for anyone after the fall of the Empire. The NR is dysfunctional at best and incompetent at worst. Mando even calls them a joke, although thats only 5 years after the DS2 went boom, but they really don't improve much between Mandalorian and TFA.
I certainly don't agree with all the choices Disney made, and I think RJ was an awful choice for TLJ, but I can reconcile the direction they took with the OT heroes.
I am really trying not to get political, but Disney is in your face with this stuff and attacks anyone who complains.
They have practically taken over RottenTomatoes to tamper down dissent.
Sorry in advance if this is considered political and understand if the post is removed.
RottenTomatoes is weird. The last two movies I loved - Joker and Midway - the audiences also loved. But the critics hated.
It's not just the modern day political subcontext, it's idiotic stuff like Rey being able to defeat Kylo Ren in the first movie without ANY Jedi training. (1) So why did Luke or any other Jedi ever need ANY training? and (2) She's already beaten the dude. When it happens again, so what?
It's crap like that. Just lazy, stupid writing.
Wouldn't Rey going through training be the carbon copy that everyone is saying they hated in TFA?
I took her training to be what's transpiring in the 3 movies, not a direct Rocky montage scene. And aren't some people prodigy's in real life? Why can't that work in Star Wars?
I still think its funny that you think the true die hards are "pissed off". There's so much entitlement in that statement.
Their money isn't any greener than mine.
Now, theres no novelty. Its re-re-rehashing it. Things feel added to try and bring back the novelty but you cant. The second trilogy was exciting to have back, but terrible movies. The whole thing starts with a trade dispute? Darths backstory Is a love affair? Darth is a title? The acting? Famous actors? Jar jar? Pod racing? Mitachlorians? Ugh. The magic was trampled.
I thought Awakens was fresh from the characters, but a rehash for sure. And Hamill did this great appearance where he talked about getting in shape and then he finds out his whole part is turning around and taking off a hood. Pretty funny. Last Jedi, meh. The end was bad and Rey having super Force powers with no training? Weak. I did like the idea of a trooper questioning things.
With the quality of digital effects, its a shame but we expect perfection. There is no wow factor. They can throw a few new things in but its hard to wow us because we know the universe now. Its not new. And weve seen every effect from dinosaurs to time travel to space to liquid terminators. Much harder to do something to wow an audience.
Now, theres no novelty. Its re-re-rehashing it. Things feel added to try and bring back the novelty but you cant. The second trilogy was exciting to have back, but terrible movies. The whole thing starts with a trade dispute? Darths backstory Is a love affair? Darth is a title? The acting? Famous actors? Jar jar? Pod racing? Mitachlorians? Ugh. The magic was trampled.
I thought Awakens was fresh from the characters, but a rehash for sure. And Hamill did this great appearance where he talked about getting in shape and then he finds out his whole part is turning around and taking off a hood. Pretty funny. Last Jedi, meh. The end was bad and Rey having super Force powers with no training? Weak. I did like the idea of a trooper questioning things.
With the quality of digital effects, its a shame but we expect perfection. There is no wow factor. They can throw a few new things in but its hard to wow us because we know the universe now. Its not new. And weve seen every effect from dinosaurs to time travel to space to liquid terminators. Much harder to do something to wow an audience.
I certainly don't agree with all the choices Disney made, and I think RJ was an awful choice for TLJ, but I can reconcile the direction they took with the OT heroes.
Is there a translation available? And what the hell is KOTOR?
Who says SW diehards don't have a SOH - ( New Window )
And let's say that's something you would accept as possible, when she beats him again in the new movie, yawn.
Why is their money better than yours? It's not. But when you shit all over your diehard fan base, you're likely to lose money too.
It's stupid business. And they are going to suffer for it. (BTW, they got caught lying in their corporate report just how much money they have been losing because of their decisions.... they buried the figures in other categories).
Now, theres no novelty. Its re-re-rehashing it. Things feel added to try and bring back the novelty but you cant. The second trilogy was exciting to have back, but terrible movies. The whole thing starts with a trade dispute? Darths backstory Is a love affair? Darth is a title? The acting? Famous actors? Jar jar? Pod racing? Mitachlorians? Ugh. The magic was trampled.
I thought Awakens was fresh from the characters, but a rehash for sure. And Hamill did this great appearance where he talked about getting in shape and then he finds out his whole part is turning around and taking off a hood. Pretty funny. Last Jedi, meh. The end was bad and Rey having super Force powers with no training? Weak. I did like the idea of a trooper questioning things.
With the quality of digital effects, its a shame but we expect perfection. There is no wow factor. They can throw a few new things in but its hard to wow us because we know the universe now. Its not new. And weve seen every effect from dinosaurs to time travel to space to liquid terminators. Much harder to do something to wow an audience.
The special effects were very innovative for 1977 and spawned many, many copycats.
It was transformed by devoted fans into "canon", and books and this whole mythology. They are the people who kept it going.
It's not just the modern day political subcontext, it's idiotic stuff like Rey being able to defeat Kylo Ren in the first movie without ANY Jedi training. (1) So why did Luke or any other Jedi ever need ANY training? and (2) She's already beaten the dude. When it happens again, so what?
It's crap like that. Just lazy, stupid writing.
I could be slightly off-base because it has been a little while since I watched The Force Awakens, but I believe that
1.) Kylo Ren had just taken a gutshot from Chewie's bowcaster, which is depicted as being so powerful it knocks back any non-Wookies who use it. So he was very injured.
2.) It's more of a draw than a win for Ren. Isn't the ground/planet being blown apart and that + Finn intervening serves to interrupt the end of the fight.
Her fighting Kylo Ren and not losing was basically their take on the first Luke/Vader faceoff that ends with Luke running away. You could complain that she wasn't hurt or maimed like Luke was by Vader, but that's a nitpick.
It's dumb. It's not believable. And as I keep pointing out, it makes the next round between the two pointless.
Quote:
And while the ST diminishes the ending of RotJ, it's helped paint a picture that things in the GFFA aren't too rosy for anyone after the fall of the Empire. The NR is dysfunctional at best and incompetent at worst. Mando even calls them a joke, although thats only 5 years after the DS2 went boom, but they really don't improve much between Mandalorian and TFA.
I certainly don't agree with all the choices Disney made, and I think RJ was an awful choice for TLJ, but I can reconcile the direction they took with the OT heroes.
Is there a translation available? And what the hell is KOTOR? Who says SW diehards don't have a SOH - ( New Window )
In order:
Sequel Trilogy
Return of the Jedi
Galaxy Far Far Away
New Republic
Death Star 2
The Force Awakens
Rian Johnson
The Last Jedi
Original Trilogy
KOTOR = Knights of the Old Republic. It's a video game
And let's say that's something you would accept as possible, when she beats him again in the new movie, yawn.
Why is their money better than yours? It's not. But when you shit all over your diehard fan base, you're likely to lose money too.
It's stupid business. And they are going to suffer for it. (BTW, they got caught lying in their corporate report just how much money they have been losing because of their decisions.... they buried the figures in other categories).
Some rambling thoughts.
Eric, I'm in the middle in this a bit. THe criticisms of Rey, that she's a "Mary Sue" character are a bit overblown. Luke blew up the death star without training. If anything, the fact that Kylo Ren could stop a freaking lazer bolt and hold it, which nobody we know could ever do, including Vader, etc., is more annyoing to me. But power creep is very common with follow up characters.
Regarding her beating Kylo, didn't they make a big point about how he was fucking shot through the abdomen and bleeding out? That's why he was weak. As far as we know, Luke was never taught any swordsmanship from Yoda. Yet he fought duels with Vader twice and didn't get killed by the most powerful sith swordsman in the universe.
On the other side, While some of the criticisms of Rey seem a bit incel-ish, I do find the tendency to read any criticism as sexism to be cheap and pandering (and what we've seen as an easy way to deflect any possible fan revolt with Capt. Marvel, Ghostbusters, etc.).
I wish they'd be nuanced and say "some people may be motivated by this. . .". Unfortunately, the loudest people on social media are often the most dickish. So, maybe they are just responding to the most vocal assholes, not everybody.
I agree with everybody that the treatment of Luke in TLJ was a downer. After 3 viewings, I've learned to appreciate it for what is was and forgive it, so to speak. I hold out home that somehow JJ will keep Luke around as a mentor and important figure.
From what I can see, KK really wasn't the best person for Lucas to trust with the franchise, and it's a bummer, but in retrospect, she seemed a good shepherd at the time. "The force is female" is just dumb, and given statements like that, it's understandable that some fans see her trying to cram some SJW stuff in (like the wise patient women vs. the hotheaded men sub-theme in TLF). But I don't think one has to see it like that. Personally, I love to see a badass female lead, and as a father of girls, I like that they can have posters of Rey on the wall.
One thing she is doing right is giving creative space to Dave Filoni, the person behind Clone Wars (and much of the Mandalorian), and he's s really creative guy, who loves Lucas and Star Wars. Not just an executive.
And to Fats--Star Wars is not sci-fi, it's fantasy literature set in space, and tapped into a deep vein of mythological concepts. As you probably know, Lucas was absorbed in Joseph Campbell's work while doing ANH, and it hit some of us (myself included) on that deep, primordial level, not unlike Tolkien or Robert Howard's writings. I think that's why many people were moved by it and are emotionally attached to the characters after so many years.
If people can be pissed at how GOT dealt with it's characters in an 8-year series, it's not shocking that some would be let down by how Luke was treated when he was the hero of their youthful mythology.
The big problem with the Disney Star Wars has been touched on by earlier posters - they didn't outline the main story ahead of time and instead decided to have directors come in & put their own spin on it. Which has led to a feeling of disjointedness as plot threads have been raised and dropped with unsatisfying resolutions - Rey's parentage, the Knights of Ren, Snoke's entire character, etc.
Why they would opt for this method of movie making when they spent a billion dollars on the franchise rights and had the Marvel movie blueprint to copy from, I have absolutely no idea.
When you take all that into account the hardcore fanbase possessing a cynical attitude seems fair. The suggestion the modern trilogy from Disney provides nothing than an attempt to entice a new generation with fancy VFX and CGI to ensure money and profit for years to come sounds like a reasonable conclusion.
It's dumb. It's not believable. And as I keep pointing out, it makes the next round between the two pointless.
Darth Vader was a full-fledged Sith Lord with the greatest force powers ever, as pointed out by the prequel trilogy. Kylo Ren was a half-trained wannabe with a laser wound in his chest - and he still didn't lose (correct me if I'm misremembering that bit).
If they just made this new sequel series the basic story of the Thrawn Trillogy, but tweaked to add some features and drop others, make sense of older Luke and the rest, the fans would have been utterly psyched.
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I don't think there has ever been a prodigy who has picked up a sword for the first time and defeated another sword master.
And let's say that's something you would accept as possible, when she beats him again in the new movie, yawn.
Why is their money better than yours? It's not. But when you shit all over your diehard fan base, you're likely to lose money too.
It's stupid business. And they are going to suffer for it. (BTW, they got caught lying in their corporate report just how much money they have been losing because of their decisions.... they buried the figures in other categories).
Some rambling thoughts.
Eric, I'm in the middle in this a bit. THe criticisms of Rey, that she's a "Mary Sue" character are a bit overblown. Luke blew up the death star without training. If anything, the fact that Kylo Ren could stop a freaking lazer bolt and hold it, which nobody we know could ever do, including Vader, etc., is more annyoing to me. But power creep is very common with follow up characters.
Regarding her beating Kylo, didn't they make a big point about how he was fucking shot through the abdomen and bleeding out? That's why he was weak. As far as we know, Luke was never taught any swordsmanship from Yoda. Yet he fought duels with Vader twice and didn't get killed by the most powerful sith swordsman in the universe.
On the other side, While some of the criticisms of Rey seem a bit incel-ish, I do find the tendency to read any criticism as sexism to be cheap and pandering (and what we've seen as an easy way to deflect any possible fan revolt with Capt. Marvel, Ghostbusters, etc.).
I wish they'd be nuanced and say "some people may be motivated by this. . .". Unfortunately, the loudest people on social media are often the most dickish. So, maybe they are just responding to the most vocal assholes, not everybody.
I agree with everybody that the treatment of Luke in TLJ was a downer. After 3 viewings, I've learned to appreciate it for what is was and forgive it, so to speak. I hold out home that somehow JJ will keep Luke around as a mentor and important figure.
From what I can see, KK really wasn't the best person for Lucas to trust with the franchise, and it's a bummer, but in retrospect, she seemed a good shepherd at the time. "The force is female" is just dumb, and given statements like that, it's understandable that some fans see her trying to cram some SJW stuff in (like the wise patient women vs. the hotheaded men sub-theme in TLF). But I don't think one has to see it like that. Personally, I love to see a badass female lead, and as a father of girls, I like that they can have posters of Rey on the wall.
One thing she is doing right is giving creative space to Dave Filoni, the person behind Clone Wars (and much of the Mandalorian), and he's s really creative guy, who loves Lucas and Star Wars. Not just an executive.
And to Fats--Star Wars is not sci-fi, it's fantasy literature set in space, and tapped into a deep vein of mythological concepts. As you probably know, Lucas was absorbed in Joseph Campbell's work while doing ANH, and it hit some of us (myself included) on that deep, primordial level, not unlike Tolkien or Robert Howard's writings. I think that's why many people were moved by it and are emotionally attached to the characters after so many years.
If people can be pissed at how GOT dealt with it's characters in an 8-year series, it's not shocking that some would be let down by how Luke was treated when he was the hero of their youthful mythology.
Well it is established in ANH that Luke is a very good pilot and could bullseye womp rats which are only 2 meters.
But yes Luke does take to using the force very quickly. His "first step into a larger world" was right when they got to Alderan. He's blowing up the Death Star hours later...
From a story arc perspective, it makes the inevitable round two between these two anti-climatic. It's stupid writing. "Yeah, she beat him again!"
But this is only one, albeit major, issue of dozens and dozens with the the latest trilogy. (And I'm not even a Star Wars geek). I came out of the last movie saying, "I'm done." My son convinced me to watch Mandalorian and I'm glad he did.
If you haven't seen the Red Letter Media guy's Mr. Plinkett video on it, he gives a breakdown of a more believable plot and you are left wondering why we didn't get that movie instead.
The Last Jedi was horrendous. I don't see this series being redeemed, the writing is already screwed.
When you take all that into account the hardcore fanbase possessing a cynical attitude seems fair. The suggestion the modern trilogy from Disney provides nothing than an attempt to entice a new generation with fancy VFX and CGI to ensure money and profit for years to come sounds like a reasonable conclusion.
It feels like they winged it. Like they didn't chart out the story arc and are just doing it on the fly.
She and I are pretty much in the same place, except I'm a dad sharing it with my daughters.
She should watch Solo. It was a fun movie, and unfortunately suffered because people were so pissed at TLJ.
I go to movies to get away from all the bullshit in real life, sucks now that the whininess is leaking into movies now.
If you haven't seen the Red Letter Media guy's Mr. Plinkett video on it, he gives a breakdown of a more believable plot and you are left wondering why we didn't get that movie instead.
The Last Jedi was horrendous. I don't see this series being redeemed, the writing is already screwed.
RotS redeemed the hilariously bad AotC... actually it redeemed the whole PT.
This is a solid explanation--except for the fact that he can fucking stop a laser beam in mid-shot and hold it there. No other force user ever did (could?) do that.
But in that scene, he combined that with one momentary connection with the Force when to pull the trigger for the bomb. Not the same as having to be able to master a martial art.
Now you are correct that he later becomes quite adept at sword fighting, but we have no idea how much training he has undergone by that point. It's more believable.
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being characterized as a Jedi Master in training is technically true but overstating it. Like saying Lorenzo Carter is a Pro-Bowl Linebacker in training. It's their goal, sure, but they still aren't close. Kylo seemed to be in the Padawan stages when he turned on Luke. And Snoke dosn't come across as much of a teacher - he doesn't want Kylo getting stronger than him.
This is a solid explanation--except for the fact that he can fucking stop a laser beam in mid-shot and hold it there. No other force user ever did (could?) do that.
*Shrug* They just effortlessly ninja-deflect the laser blasts back at the people shooting them. That seems more effective and less focus-intensive than what Kylo pulled off. Shows that he has strong, innate Force abilities but little knowledge on how to control them effectively.
She and I are pretty much in the same place, except I'm a dad sharing it with my daughters.
She should watch Solo. It was a fun movie, and unfortunately suffered because people were so pissed at TLJ.
We like Rey too. We actually think the strength of the new trilogy is the casting. That's not our issue.
It reminded me of the Transformers movie in the mid 1980s where they kill Starscream and god damn OPTIMUS PRIME. I watched the show "Toys That Made Us" that is on Netflix and they talked about the Transformer toys. It was made clear in the discussion of the Trasnformers movie, it was a deliberate decision made by the corporate leadership to do this in order to introduce a new line of transformers for the kids to buy. But they ended up turning off the audience so bad that the sales tanked and took years to recover in a reboot (including bringing Prime back).
Anyway, I'm going on Friday with my sons. My expectations are kinda low. I figure it will be some variation of Return of the Jedi 2.0 because we saw how JJ Abrams handled things. The Emperor is such a kick ass character, I hope they don't ruin him along the way. And if Chewie has to die, don't have him go out like a pussy. That's all I ask.
But in that scene, he combined that with one momentary connection with the Force when to pull the trigger for the bomb. Not the same as having to be able to master a martial art.
Now you are correct that he later becomes quite adept at sword fighting, but we have no idea how much training he has undergone by that point. It's more believable.
Rey is introduced as an experienced scavenger with already developed combat abilities - doesn't she beat down some rivals with her bo-staff on Jakku at the very beginning? She's not supposed to be a helpless girl with no fighting experience.
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Regarding Luke, he was a pilot. And pretty good at nailing swamp rats as far as I heard.
But in that scene, he combined that with one momentary connection with the Force when to pull the trigger for the bomb. Not the same as having to be able to master a martial art.
Now you are correct that he later becomes quite adept at sword fighting, but we have no idea how much training he has undergone by that point. It's more believable.
Rey is introduced as an experienced scavenger with already developed combat abilities - doesn't she beat down some rivals with her bo-staff on Jakku at the very beginning? She's not supposed to be a helpless girl with no fighting experience.
This.
She had an enormously tough life already and could fight.
Rogue One was for Gen X star wars fan. But then I outgrew SW when I was 13 so no big loss.
Who knew people were interested in Science Fiction and Fantasy as genres for entertainment? Are you a complete fucking moron or just a smug one?
Who knew you'd care enough to grace us with your presence. Solid contribution.
It's crazy. We also like reading. And chess. And the arts. Complicated world, I'm sure.
Idiot.
(By the way, did you see the clips of how they botched the Rey fighting scene with Snopes' guards? They had to deliberately miss her because she was exposed. (The director didn't reshoot the scene).
*********
Other issue that immediately comes to mind... do you realize they have made all future fleet combat meaningless??? All you have to do is send one of your crappier ships into hyperdrive and you can destroy an entire fleet. (Forget the fact that's not how hyperspace is supposed to work).
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Who knew?
It's crazy. We also like reading. And chess. And the arts. Complicated world, I'm sure.
Idiot.
E4 or D4?
Have you read the Darth Bane trilogy? To me, that is by far the best Star Wars content ever created. He references Darth Revan in the books so I have been curious about reading that trilogy as well, but I heard that without having played KOTOR, it wouldn't mean much to me. Clone Wars was an excellent show, but I preferred Rebels. I am absolutely looking forward to the next season of Clone Wars.
Is there some sort of massive campaign underway that women have to model themselves after Rey??
If that's the line of thinking, you can probably draw many more parallels to the Marvel Universe doing this than Star Wars.
Is there some sort of massive campaign underway that women have to model themselves after Rey??
If that's the line of thinking, you can probably draw many more parallels to the Marvel Universe doing this than Star Wars.
She's not talking about Rey but some of the other characters (she has a problem with the purple-haired woman who apparently needs to keep all the men in the dark).
Now, theres no novelty. Its re-re-rehashing it. Things feel added to try and bring back the novelty but you cant. The second trilogy was exciting to have back, but terrible movies. The whole thing starts with a trade dispute? Darths backstory Is a love affair? Darth is a title? The acting? Famous actors? Jar jar? Pod racing? Mitachlorians? Ugh. The magic was trampled.
I thought Awakens was fresh from the characters, but a rehash for sure. And Hamill did this great appearance where he talked about getting in shape and then he finds out his whole part is turning around and taking off a hood. Pretty funny. Last Jedi, meh. The end was bad and Rey having super Force powers with no training? Weak. I did like the idea of a trooper questioning things.
With the quality of digital effects, its a shame but we expect perfection. There is no wow factor. They can throw a few new things in but its hard to wow us because we know the universe now. Its not new. And weve seen every effect from dinosaurs to time travel to space to liquid terminators. Much harder to do something to wow an audience.
*slow clap*
Well said!
It wasn't an easy task to make these movies but not an impossible one, sequels can be better - look at Mission Impossible Fallout - I thought this was the best MU movie yet and maybe the best action movie of that year. It can be done.
Just like any other long project though it needs a clear overall vision to orchestrate, this is where I think SW failed. I'm ok bringing in talented directors (like Marvel did) but Feige guided that ship correctly. Kennedy did not.
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In comment 14722128 RDJR said:
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Who knew?
It's crazy. We also like reading. And chess. And the arts. Complicated world, I'm sure.
Idiot.
E4 or D4?
My post was not necessary and for that I apologize. Ive been here a long time and there was a time we could joke with each other. I know those days are gone. My bad.
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are the Knights of the old Republic, which also happens to be the best part of the entire Star Wars saga IMO, the video game KotoR. An absolute masterpiece of a game. That and the Clone Ware cartoon.
Have you read the Darth Bane trilogy? To me, that is by far the best Star Wars content ever created. He references Darth Revan in the books so I have been curious about reading that trilogy as well, but I heard that without having played KOTOR, it wouldn't mean much to me. Clone Wars was an excellent show, but I preferred Rebels. I am absolutely looking forward to the next season of Clone Wars.
Imho, the bane books were a great way to explore how there could be a dark side culture. Very good world building. But not good writing. Drew Karpyshyn is a great idea person, but not a good prose writer.
but at the end of the day it's a movie about space wizards. The constant whining and bitching from "die hards" is annoying beyond belief.
If you dislike the new stuff, fine. Watch the old stuff and stop taking yourselves so seriously.
Trekkies are even worse. They hate anything new. I'm old enough to remember Trek die hates raging against the Next,Generation which is now widely considered the pinnacle of that series.
I'm speaking in broad generalizations for sure, but I've spent a good amount of time in these communities. When the prequels came out they complained that it "didn't feel like Star Wars". They complained about excessive cgi.
When Disney bought the license they DID listen to fans. They tried to introduce more practical effects back onto the process, and they cut back the cgi. They tried to bring back the feel of the OT.
Then they were accused of ripping off the PT and these same fans now bitched that TFA was too much like the OT.
They can't win.
These people want their childhoods back and that's not possible. The OT is special to most of us because we first saw it as children.
They wanted the new material to be the same but also different somehow.
They want a dark Star Wars. They wanted it to grow up with them, but also somehow make them feel like children again.
And fun fact -- the idea that one of Luke's students would betray him, leading Luke into becoming a recluse was Lucas' idea for a sequel trilogy that he never got to make. And do you know what else Lucas' sequel trilogy would have been about? Ancient microbiotic organisms that fed on the Force.
Yeah, that would have been so much better.
Luke, a teenage farmer:
-Survives many gun battle with trained soldiers.
-Shoots down multiple TIE fighters in the Falcon's turrets despite never even being in space before this.
-Does not even know what the Force is at the start of the movie then uses the Force to blind fire torpedoes to blow up the death star, an allegedly impossible shot according to Han and other trained pilots.
And that's just A New Hope.
During Empire, without training, he force pulls his lightsaber to save himself on Hoth.
Despite never receiving any lightsaber fighting experience, he holds his own against Darth Vader on Bespin.
At various points throughout Force Awakens, it's established that Rey is a mechanic, knows ships. She is introduced to the audience as a salvager and mechanic. It's also established that she can fight and take care of herself with a melee weapon. She's far less naive and reckless than teenage Luke was.
And it's also established that Kylo Ren suffers a wound that would have killed a normal person. Chewbacca and Han use the bowcaster at least three times in the movie, and it's shown as a devastating weapon that launches targets through the air with explosive force. Ren is GUT SHOT by this weapon, visibly bleeding out while dueling Rey.
The legitimate criticisms of the movie are multiple, but "Rey's a bad character because she's artificially good at everything" is not valid. Or at worst, it's completely within the realm of Star Wars movies that people worship.
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Rey's character a by-product of Corporate shills forcing girl power down our throats in comparison to Leia's character??
Is there some sort of massive campaign underway that women have to model themselves after Rey??
If that's the line of thinking, you can probably draw many more parallels to the Marvel Universe doing this than Star Wars.
She's not talking about Rey but some of the other characters (she has a problem with the purple-haired woman who apparently needs to keep all the men in the dark).
Star Wars is the New York Giants, Female empowerment is 'Culture', Leia is DG, Purple haired lady is Shurmur
Luke, a teenage farmer:
-Survives many gun battle with trained soldiers.
-Shoots down multiple TIE fighters in the Falcon's turrets despite never even being in space before this.
-Does not even know what the Force is at the start of the movie then uses the Force to blind fire torpedoes to blow up the death star, an allegedly impossible shot according to Han and other trained pilots.
And that's just A New Hope.
During Empire, without training, he force pulls his lightsaber to save himself on Hoth.
Despite never receiving any lightsaber fighting experience, he holds his own against Darth Vader on Bespin.
At various points throughout Force Awakens, it's established that Rey is a mechanic, knows ships. She is introduced to the audience as a salvager and mechanic. It's also established that she can fight and take care of herself with a melee weapon. She's far less naive and reckless than teenage Luke was.
And it's also established that Kylo Ren suffers a wound that would have killed a normal person. Chewbacca and Han use the bowcaster at least three times in the movie, and it's shown as a devastating weapon that launches targets through the air with explosive force. Ren is GUT SHOT by this weapon, visibly bleeding out while dueling Rey.
The legitimate criticisms of the movie are multiple, but "Rey's a bad character because she's artificially good at everything" is not valid. Or at worst, it's completely within the realm of Star Wars movies that people worship.
Let's not forget Anakin Skywalker at 9 years old winning pod races against adults. He goes from sheltered slave to blowing up spaceships in a matter of days.
That was fine, but when a woman does something it's liberal agenda.
It's percerption. People tend to twist things to affirm their already established (and often biased) beliefs. If you think everything is a liberal "sjw" feminist conspiracy you will conjure evidence for it everywhere and cherry pick facts to support it.
It's not. Tons of people had issues with the stupid pod race too, starting with the criticism that it added nothing to the story.
Somehow this thread morphed into some sort of weird debate on the only reason that Rey is being criticized is because she is a woman.
No novice to a lightsaber should be able to pick one up and defeat a Jedi, no matter what sex, race, alien type, etc. It's not believable.
And it's not the same as Luke pushing a button on an attack fighter at the right moment. He was a pilot. It's not the same as him barely pulling out his light saber out of snow bank.
Beyond all that, as I've repeatedly pointed out above, it's bad story telling. The heroine has already defeated the main villain in the first episode. That has nothing to do with her being a woman.
There are entire videos/articles dedicated to how Disney botched TLJ...story arc, getting away from Star Wars lore and characters, pointless tangents, etc.
I started this thread because Disney's response to this has been to use the corporate media to attack the diehard fan base. I'm not part of that fanbase. But I see it. The Forbes article was just the latest example.
Rey is a strong female character. But I would still contend that Leia remains Star Wars strongest female character, and at a time, when doing so was ground-breaking. (Same with Star Trek a decade earlier).
I liked the originals though and tried to watch the prequels when they came out. They were terrible except the last one and never watched them again. I gave the new films a chance, but the TFA was ridiculous. I don't know how it stands from a lore standpoint, but it shamelessly followed the ANH. I also thought Kylo Ren getting beat that easily was a mistake. To me, it undid what they established earlier in the film with Kylo being a powerful being. I then viewed him as being fairly weak and figured Snoke would be the big bad. Whoops!
I've heard people mention the power of the bowcaster before, but when I saw the film I never had the impression it was super powerful weapon. I just rewatched some clips of chewie's weapon. In one shot it hits the ground and 2 guys go flying, but every subsequent shot guys just fall down like a normal blaster.
I didn't like TLJ at all, but I didn't get the hate (besides Luke's portrayal), I have since read some articles that detail the issues and I believe they have a legitimate gripe. I may go see the new one, but I don't see how they salvage this story.
That's what intellectually lazy, emotionally stunted man-babies do.
It's one or the other. I was a big Star Wars fan growing up. I never mistook it for The Godfather when I got older though. Lucas himself called it a spaghetti western in space, and that's exactly what they were - bad acting, cheesy dialog and all. Somehow now, they're cinematic masterpieces whose sequels have to be so picture perfect that anything less would be like taking a Sharpie to the Mona Lisa.
I'm also willing to bet a lot of those people in the second category don't have any daughters.
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Whole Liberal/SJW movement that is being pushed down our throats.
That's what intellectually lazy, emotionally stunted man-babies do.
How can you not label it on them, the last one was fucking putrid because they wanted to shove agendas down their throat. Although labeling it liberal is asinine, just like labeling nazis conservative. Its such a fringe minority of people. thats the worst part, the problem is hollywood is infested with these type of people.
One little plot point that most people missed in TLJ was that it wasn't Kylo Ren that turned the light saber and killed Snoke. Snoke was in KR mind, if KR was thinking about killing Snoke, he would have known it. It was Rey. who killed Snoke... Notice who caught the saber... THe stunned look on KR's face. How confident Rey was when she got up and was ready to defend against Snoke's guard.
That said, I was not a fan of TLJ. These are my personal observations that I made to my wife immediately after watching it.
What was done with Luke's character is a complete betrayal of who he was in the original.
Nobody ever acknowledges that Poe saved everybody's ass by destroying the Dreadnought, because otherwise it had the range to destroy all the Resistance ships in the sub-light speed OJ Simpson style chase.
The sub-light speed chase was ridiculous to begin with since the first order could have used hyper-drive to jump wherever they wanted and surround the Resistance fleet.
If it were possible to damage/destroy another ship simple by jumping to light speed and passing through the other ship. Then that would be the ultimate weapon with with to destroy anything with light speed torpedoes... They should even destroy planets.
The whole side trip to Cantobite, and trying to disable their hyperspace tracking device was a huge vat of nothingness. A complete waste of time, it served zero plot purpose.
Finn's suicidal run at the end was a complete betrayal of his character up that point. He was always trying to run away and all of a sudden he is willing to sacrifice himself. Makes no sense.
I don't know if those are any of the complaints that the so called "Trolls" have. I am aware that long time SW fans hated the movie and had lots of complaints, I never followed up on what they were.
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How Disney can get the Marvel formula so right, yet get the Star Wars formula so wrong just baffles me.
Of course I have my theories, but it'll send this thread down a rabbit hole we likely don't want.
We may be wrong, but this is my view also. Not so much in the social view sense, but simply all the ridiculousness of the movie, how it basically crapped on everything the universe we knew counted on.
I do think she's kinda realized this with the blowback from TLJ - or at least, Disney did.
I actually was skeptical going to Solo, but it was pretty solid. It made me wonder (I have no clue) if the last second hiring of Ron Howard to salvage it to something more of a begruding acceptance from her that the 'old way' was better.
I haven't followed the personnel responsible for the two most recent entries... how is this Kathleen person involved? She didn't write or direct either of the films did she?
One little plot point that most people missed in TLJ was that it wasn't Kylo Ren that turned the light saber and killed Snoke. Snoke was in KR mind, if KR was thinking about killing Snoke, he would have known it. It was Rey. who killed Snoke... Notice who caught the saber... THe stunned look on KR's face. How confident Rey was when she got up and was ready to defend against Snoke's guard.
That said, I was not a fan of TLJ. These are my personal observations that I made to my wife immediately after watching it.
What was done with Luke's character is a complete betrayal of who he was in the original.
Nobody ever acknowledges that Poe saved everybody's ass by destroying the Dreadnought, because otherwise it had the range to destroy all the Resistance ships in the sub-light speed OJ Simpson style chase.
The sub-light speed chase was ridiculous to begin with since the first order could have used hyper-drive to jump wherever they wanted and surround the Resistance fleet.
If it were possible to damage/destroy another ship simple by jumping to light speed and passing through the other ship. Then that would be the ultimate weapon with with to destroy anything with light speed torpedoes... They should even destroy planets.
The whole side trip to Cantobite, and trying to disable their hyperspace tracking device was a huge vat of nothingness. A complete waste of time, it served zero plot purpose.
Finn's suicidal run at the end was a complete betrayal of his character up that point. He was always trying to run away and all of a sudden he is willing to sacrifice himself. Makes no sense.
I don't know if those are any of the complaints that the so called "Trolls" have. I am aware that long time SW fans hated the movie and had lots of complaints, I never followed up on what they were.
The bit about Rey being the one to kill Snoke likely isnt true. They pretty clearly show Kylo Ren making a turning gesture and then squeezing his fingers with his off hand to move and activate the lightsaber that kills Snoke. Also, if his intent wasnt to betray Snoke why would he have cooperated with Rey after she killed him?
That scene to me was more intended to show the growth and improved mastery of the Force of Kylo Ren, not anything with Rey. Who knows how they address it in Episode IX though. Rian Johnson pretty much disregarded anything that Abrams laid out in TFA so wouldnt shock me to see Abrams do the same with things that Johnson included in TLJ.
Love these takes! Tell us what you think about that Hallmark ad
In regards to labeling TLJ haters as trolls, I side that side of this polarizing
movie most often proclaiming opinions as facts with statements like saying the movie was objectively terrible. That type of stance invalidates the opinion of die hards like myself therefore anyone invalidating their opinion of Star Wars die hard is in fact a troll. I loved the movie but I can see why others didnt share that level of appreciation without insulting them.
Its 2019 and the internet and people can nitpick anything to death if they want to. What i loved about the movie outweighed the nitpicks and its not even close. TLJ really challenged and pushed some new ideas around the Jedi and the force a good way. Rey is a great character. The space chase and krate were all great. I dont think it will become a trend for capital ships to hyper speed into other capital ships and the EU had technology to prevent this so it could easily be incorporated. I cant believe a scene as epic as the silent hyperdrive attack just gets thrown into the cons column when evaluating the movie. That was cinematic gold (and in no way ruins the sci fi universe that has been built)
When the Last Jedi came out. The critics gave it a 91% on rotten tomatoes and had an A cinemascore.
The cinemascore takes the poll of the audience right after they watched the movie. It was overwhelmingly positive.
Ask yourself, did you really hate the movie? Or did the toxicity of the internet influence your opinion.
I remember leaving TLJ and I loved it. Then as I thought about it more, some plot points were headscratching.
But I remember loving the movie when I left the theater and so did the critiques and the majority of the audience polled. In any other type movie... a 91% and an A on cinemascore, we'd be talking about one of the great movies.
Instead... it's Star Wars.
Can't wait for Thursday night. The "core" SW fans are already bashing it and the "regular" fans that have seen it, loved it.
We will see. I'm excited.
I have this debate with my friends all the time. For example one of my friends said "The Irishman" was terrible. I asked why. He said "its the same movie as Goodfellas just not as good". I asked him "wouldn't that mean its still pretty good though?" I then asked him, "was it really terrible or was it a movie you just didn't enjoy as much as Goodfellas?"
Everything is a 0 or a 10 which I find pretty damn crazy. I know for a fact he didn't hate the Irishman, he just wants to be that guy to call something he didn't completely love "terrible" when really, he enjoyed seeing it but didn't think it was great (ie, average/solid/whatever word you want to use).
This is exactly how Star Wars debates go. Everything is terrible which I find hilarious. There's so much good in these movies, they are fun to watch, have better acting than the originals, have top notch effects, have the best actions scenes of the series and people are up and arms about Luke Skywalker drinking milk from a sea creature.
Its absurd.
When the Last Jedi came out. The critics gave it a 91% on rotten tomatoes and had an A cinemascore.
The cinemascore takes the poll of the audience right after they watched the movie. It was overwhelmingly positive.
Ask yourself, did you really hate the movie? Or did the toxicity of the internet influence your opinion.
I remember leaving TLJ and I loved it. Then as I thought about it more, some plot points were headscratching.
But I remember loving the movie when I left the theater and so did the critiques and the majority of the audience polled. In any other type movie... a 91% and an A on cinemascore, we'd be talking about one of the great movies.
Instead... it's Star Wars.
Can't wait for Thursday night. The "core" SW fans are already bashing it and the "regular" fans that have seen it, loved it.
We will see. I'm excited.
I used to consider myself the core SW fan but now Im guessing im not. I didnt care for the prequels other than Sith but it didnt ruin my childhood or star wars for me. They just made me skip Phantom Menace and Clones on rewatches. I loved TFA and was just meh with TLJ. Again wasnt great, wasnt horrible but I questioned somethings. Once again, didnt ruin my childhood or SW for me.
I think it took a while in this thread for someone to get to the real problem a lot of people have with disneys SW...a woman hero, a black guy and an asian woman(this poor girl was forced off social media because of the fans harassing her)
Of course there are people who dont like them for other reasons and thats perfectly fine. But the majority of negative shit on the internet is based on this so called SJW movement. Get over yourselves if these are your probs with Disney Star wars
Here's what's sucks thought. Apparently the "core" Star Wars fans bashed TLJ so much that the new movie apparently "course corrects" TOO MUCH.
So now the "core" will bitch that they course corrected too much on a movie that HAD to change it's narrative because it catered to the crowd that was never going to be happy in the first place?
I'm 100% positive that this movie will be just as polarizing at all the rest of the movies.
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The "core" Star Wars fans are absolutely toxic.
When the Last Jedi came out. The critics gave it a 91% on rotten tomatoes and had an A cinemascore.
The cinemascore takes the poll of the audience right after they watched the movie. It was overwhelmingly positive.
Ask yourself, did you really hate the movie? Or did the toxicity of the internet influence your opinion.
I remember leaving TLJ and I loved it. Then as I thought about it more, some plot points were headscratching.
But I remember loving the movie when I left the theater and so did the critiques and the majority of the audience polled. In any other type movie... a 91% and an A on cinemascore, we'd be talking about one of the great movies.
Instead... it's Star Wars.
Can't wait for Thursday night. The "core" SW fans are already bashing it and the "regular" fans that have seen it, loved it.
We will see. I'm excited.
I used to consider myself the core SW fan but now Im guessing im not. I didnt care for the prequels other than Sith but it didnt ruin my childhood or star wars for me. They just made me skip Phantom Menace and Clones on rewatches. I loved TFA and was just meh with TLJ. Again wasnt great, wasnt horrible but I questioned somethings. Once again, didnt ruin my childhood or SW for me.
I think it took a while in this thread for someone to get to the real problem a lot of people have with disneys SW...a woman hero, a black guy and an asian woman(this poor girl was forced off social media because of the fans harassing her)
Of course there are people who dont like them for other reasons and thats perfectly fine. But the majority of negative shit on the internet is based on this so called SJW movement. Get over yourselves if these are your probs with Disney Star wars
Right. We can't have a black man, an Asian woman or a female lead but we can have a green creature (Yoda), A shaggy bear like character (Chewie) and Robots. I don't get it.
You know what's terrible? That new Michael Bay movie on Netflix, its basically unwatchable (I lasted 8 minutes).
Are we that stupid we need other people to tell us how we should feel before we see it?
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But there have been some hints and tiny plot leaks that suggest that Rey is not what she seems. That in fact she had extensive training before we are introduced to her on Jakku.
One little plot point that most people missed in TLJ was that it wasn't Kylo Ren that turned the light saber and killed Snoke. Snoke was in KR mind, if KR was thinking about killing Snoke, he would have known it. It was Rey. who killed Snoke... Notice who caught the saber... THe stunned look on KR's face. How confident Rey was when she got up and was ready to defend against Snoke's guard.
That said, I was not a fan of TLJ. These are my personal observations that I made to my wife immediately after watching it.
What was done with Luke's character is a complete betrayal of who he was in the original.
Nobody ever acknowledges that Poe saved everybody's ass by destroying the Dreadnought, because otherwise it had the range to destroy all the Resistance ships in the sub-light speed OJ Simpson style chase.
The sub-light speed chase was ridiculous to begin with since the first order could have used hyper-drive to jump wherever they wanted and surround the Resistance fleet.
If it were possible to damage/destroy another ship simple by jumping to light speed and passing through the other ship. Then that would be the ultimate weapon with with to destroy anything with light speed torpedoes... They should even destroy planets.
The whole side trip to Cantobite, and trying to disable their hyperspace tracking device was a huge vat of nothingness. A complete waste of time, it served zero plot purpose.
Finn's suicidal run at the end was a complete betrayal of his character up that point. He was always trying to run away and all of a sudden he is willing to sacrifice himself. Makes no sense.
I don't know if those are any of the complaints that the so called "Trolls" have. I am aware that long time SW fans hated the movie and had lots of complaints, I never followed up on what they were.
The bit about Rey being the one to kill Snoke likely isnt true. They pretty clearly show Kylo Ren making a turning gesture and then squeezing his fingers with his off hand to move and activate the lightsaber that kills Snoke. Also, if his intent wasnt to betray Snoke why would he have cooperated with Rey after she killed him?
That scene to me was more intended to show the growth and improved mastery of the Force of Kylo Ren, not anything with Rey. Who knows how they address it in Episode IX though. Rian Johnson pretty much disregarded anything that Abrams laid out in TFA so wouldnt shock me to see Abrams do the same with things that Johnson included in TLJ.
Well, I don't think Rey is being passive in that scene. She is a force wielder about to be killed, she will be using the Force in any way she can. Also, She force pulled the light saber across the room. Think about it. A force pull won't go to somebody else. Would anybody catch a lit light saber force pulled by another person, let alone somebody who is potentially your enemy. Rey catches the light saber, if she doesn't catch it, it will slice Kylo in half. Kylo isn't going to kill himself with the lit light saber.
We also know that Rey was in Kylo's mind as well, Snoke sees her there and comments on it. So we know she was at least trying to manipulate Kylo. Kylo looked completely blank, like he wasn't really there. Later, Kylo says that Rey killed Snoke. Maybe he was lying to take control of the First Order, or maybe he was really telling the truth. Kylo is enraged, crazy and hellbent afterwards. Also he and Rey are still force linked even after Snoke dies. Anyway, that's what I thought after rewatching that scene a couple weeks ago... Maybe it's nothing.
Anyway, I'm not a complete hater of TLJ, just not a fan of it either. It ranks near the bottom of SW movies for me. I liked Rogue One, I thought Solo was decent, better than I thought it would be, but maybe I had low expectations having heard bad things about before I saw it.
One last thing that occurred to me after reading this thread yesterday. We know Palpatine is back in TRoS. We also know know that this trilogy is following a script, roughly similar to the original trilogy. Perhaps, Palpatine is manipulating a replay of that script so that he can change the ending.
So is it better to watch 4-5-6-1-2-3-7-8 or 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8?
Are we that stupid we need other people to tell us how we should feel before we see it?
With Star Wars I find reviews to simply be interesting/a talking point. I don't think i'll ever see or not see a Star Wars movie based on reviews. Same for most other movies.
So is it better to watch 4-5-6-1-2-3-7-8 or 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8?
Hey Bill. I'd watch them in order. 1-2-3-Rogue One-4-5-6-7-8.
Then certain things made me scratch my head:
1. You know Carrie Fisher died in real life, Why not just have her die in space? Everybody would understand.
2. Or just take the Admiral out of the entire movie and have Leia assume that exact role, in that exact death. It would have made the movie make more sense anyway. And you could have taken out all the scenes with Poe and Finn and the casino.
3. While I was watching the movie I felt the buildup was going to be Luke vs Snoke at the end. This didn't happen in hopes of making Kylo a stronger bad guy but I didn't really like how Snoke went out.
I personally liked how the movie ended. The assumption is that Luke is dead but that won't be confirmed until we watch the new movie.