15 touchdowns passing
14 INTs
225 yards per game passing
To put that in perspective. Stafford, Brady, Mahomes, and Prescott have thrown for more TDs this year than Jones has in the last 2 years.
Now there have been some circumstances that have prevented some better numbers, but for those of you are blaming the OL, the talent, the injuries, the coaching, etc... it is looking more and more that Jones needs the talent to elevate his game, when most QBs in this league are elevating the play of their teammates.
Its time to move on. And to be honest, Glennon may deserve a chance. He just throws a much better ball.
Glennon is a scrub, Jones is twice the QB Glennon is.
If there is not a QB there this year you can't force it. But that does not mean you pick up the option on Jones either. You can't commit top QB money to him. Draft talent first and then plug in a journeyman to keep the seat warm while you look for a QB you think is your franchise guy.
At the moment, no matter what else, DJ is the QB for this season.
The question becomes where do we go from here long term. I personally say anyone wanted in a trade is fair game. Dexter lawrence, Leonard Williams, Peppers, Engram, Barkley all available if someone wants them.
TB needs secondary folks badly we may want to see what we can get from them for Peppers- Ryan- Love-Jackson .... SB contenders do what they must to stay contenders.
He's far down the list of this organization's problems.
and Jones isnt a ham and egger?
Glennon is a scrub, Jones is twice the QB Glennon is.
Barkley isnt that good either. You cant rely on people who are consistently hurt.
If there is not a QB there this year you can't force it. But that does not mean you pick up the option on Jones either. You can't commit top QB money to him. Draft talent first and then plug in a journeyman to keep the seat warm while you look for a QB you think is your franchise guy.
There's a lot of QBs who will take a 1 year prove it deal. Might as well take a chance on them. Trubisky or Brisset are the first to come to mind.
One of the problems is the QB. He's not very good.
Isn't he our Director of Player Personnel?
He's far down the list of this organization's problems.
Not sure he’s the solution either. Look at the facts. His record at Duke and his record with the Giants. The numbers just don’t add up over a significant amount of time. You have it or you don’t have it. Put aside that he’s a stand up guy.
Hill had 1,200 yards and 7 TD's with Alex Smith, that's not CJ Board.
The whole concept of “this isn’t the year” seems flawed to me. It may not be, but it also may be. When the Ravens took Lamar Jackson, was he considered a top prospect at QB. In the Jones year (2018), half the people thought Murray was playing baseball, and the other half thought he was too small to be a good QB anyway. Josh Allen was the 3rd QB taken in 2017. Same with Mahomes who wasn’t looked at as a top QB prospect until the draft approached.
The issue with Jones is that I don’t think he is actually great at anything. He seems to be a hard worker and a good student of the game. He can run fast, but isn’t mobile int he pocket. He seems like a QB that one day becomes a solid backup. Great in the QB room, great teammate, may be able to win you a game if needed. I just don’t see someone with the talent to continually elevate the franchise.
Does that mean we must draft a QB high this year…of course not. If whoever is in charge of the scouting at that time doesn’t see a franchise QB, then by all means draft another position. However, if there is a QB that the team (hopefully a new regime) deems worthy, then you must take the QB. As fans, we have been wrong more than we have been right when it comes to scouting QBs ourselves. We aren’t experts. The problem is the Giants haven’t been any better.
Did you not watch him throw the ball directly to defenders twice yesterday?
This is 20 games worth. Not 1.
What you are saying is surround Jones with great talent, and he will thrive. Well cant you say that with any QB. Its obvious that Jones needs everything perfect in order to perform at a level that 12-15 QBs perform nearly every week.
If thats the case - why should he be the starter?
yes only Daniel Jones deals with injuries to his supporting cast, nobody else has to deal with injuries in the NFL.
But it will be moot if the new GM comes from outside the organization. A new GM will likely want his own QB.
The Giants have been bad for a long time. Every coach and player is effectively auditioning for his job.
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and Slayton and Thomas would have helped yesterday.
yes only Daniel Jones deals with injuries to his supporting cast, nobody else has to deal with injuries in the NFL.
Did I mention Gates?
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But I still think he is an adequate NFL QB, at least he could be if he didn't have a dumpster fire around him.
He's far down the list of this organization's problems.
Not sure he’s the solution either. Look at the facts. His record at Duke and his record with the Giants. The numbers just don’t add up over a significant amount of time. You have it or you don’t have it. Put aside that he’s a stand up guy.
I understand and it wouldn't be the end of the world to move on from him, except that finding and developing someone as good or better is not a given either.
The real decision is what kind of contract do you offer him to keep him. If you give him middling money for middling QB play, that's one way to solve the problem, move on and address other issues.
Here's the thing, NFL DC's had a year of tape on Jones heading into year 2. They adjusted, he hasn't been able to counter-adjust. We've had any number of QB's who flashed as rookies but washed out. This is his 4th year, at some point, he's going to have to perform. 19 of his last 21 games have been average to subpar. That is simply unacceptable.
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and Slayton and Thomas would have helped yesterday.
yes only Daniel Jones deals with injuries to his supporting cast, nobody else has to deal with injuries in the NFL.
Not the whole team no.. a player here or there, not his whole WR core and his whole OL.. but pls go on.. btw Baker Mayfield -discuss -now this guy has no excuses.
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is the damn problem. Numbers are much better with Shumur's offense. You just can't erase that off the record. At least acknowledge it.
Here's the thing, NFL DC's had a year of tape on Jones heading into year 2. They adjusted, he hasn't been able to counter-adjust. We've had any number of QB's who flashed as rookies but washed out. This is his 4th year, at some point, he's going to have to perform. 19 of his last 21 games have been average to subpar. That is simply unacceptable.
Uhh yeah adjusted, lets rush 3 or 4 and have everyone else out covering bc Giants cant block or run the ball and have wrs that scare anybody.. heck of an adjustment by DCs
this. The roster is so bad that you really cant even properly evaluate the QB or HC. Gettleman has to go.
With a line bookended by Nate Solder and a 2nd year tackle in Peart. Oh, and a couple of interior lineman picked up off the scrap heap.
For fuck's sake.
With a line bookended by Nate Solder and a 2nd year tackle in Peart. Oh, and a couple of interior lineman picked up off the scrap heap.
For fuck's sake.
Well we know Jones isnt. Again, 20 games, not 1.
I'm not really sure Daniel Jones gives us anything more than Teddy Bridgwater.
With a line bookended by Nate Solder and a 2nd year tackle in Peart. Oh, and a couple of interior lineman picked up off the scrap heap.
For fuck's sake.
Exactly
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Devontae Booker (a 3rd down back) as RB1, Pettis, some guy named Collin Johnson, Evan Engram (enough said), the corpse of Kyle Rudolph, and Sterling Shepard.
With a line bookended by Nate Solder and a 2nd year tackle in Peart. Oh, and a couple of interior lineman picked up off the scrap heap.
For fuck's sake.
Well we know Jones isnt. Again, 20 games, not 1.
Find any 3 games where he had any type of protection and weapons in 20 games.. Ill wait. I can think of 2 we won both
The guy who is responsible for finding the players.
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Fix the OL. Start from there.
The whole concept of “this isn’t the year” seems flawed to me. It may not be, but it also may be. When the Ravens took Lamar Jackson, was he considered a top prospect at QB. In the Jones year (2018), half the people thought Murray was playing baseball, and the other half thought he was too small to be a good QB anyway. Josh Allen was the 3rd QB taken in 2017. Same with Mahomes who wasn’t looked at as a top QB prospect until the draft approached.
The issue with Jones is that I don’t think he is actually great at anything. He seems to be a hard worker and a good student of the game. He can run fast, but isn’t mobile int he pocket. He seems like a QB that one day becomes a solid backup. Great in the QB room, great teammate, may be able to win you a game if needed. I just don’t see someone with the talent to continually elevate the franchise.
Does that mean we must draft a QB high this year…of course not. If whoever is in charge of the scouting at that time doesn’t see a franchise QB, then by all means draft another position. However, if there is a QB that the team (hopefully a new regime) deems worthy, then you must take the QB. As fans, we have been wrong more than we have been right when it comes to scouting QBs ourselves. We aren’t experts. The problem is the Giants haven’t been any better.
Nobody's having a standout season in college this year. If you look at Lamar Jackson's college resume, he should have been valued higher. It's only for the "he should play WR" garbage that he dropped.
Josh Allen wasn't a big prospect, true. Murray was. It was only a question if he was going to play MLB or NFL.
I can't speak for the Wyomings of college, maybe there's a guy out there, but there's no name prospects out there this year except Matt Corral at Miss and Wills from Liberty. There's no obvious guy at this point in time of the college season people should know who's coming with a resume of accomplishments and a ticket to the top of the draft a la a Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence. A QB will appear eventually, but it won't be the kind of prospect anyone on the outside is strongly confident about.
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In comment 15419250 Chris684 said:
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Devontae Booker (a 3rd down back) as RB1, Pettis, some guy named Collin Johnson, Evan Engram (enough said), the corpse of Kyle Rudolph, and Sterling Shepard.
With a line bookended by Nate Solder and a 2nd year tackle in Peart. Oh, and a couple of interior lineman picked up off the scrap heap.
For fuck's sake.
Well we know Jones isnt. Again, 20 games, not 1.
Find any 3 games where he had any type of protection and weapons in 20 games.. Ill wait. I can think of 2 we won both
He was pretty well protected all year until this week. Getting sacked 1-2 games isnt that bad.
DJ is the very least of our issues...
It's even fine letting Jones play next season, if the next regime doesn't see a QB in the draft they want (or even if they do and let that QB sit a while under Jones). But they can NOT pick up his 5th year option if he doesn't start producing. They also need to bring in a serious back up, who is able to realy compete with Jones. A Teddy Bridgewater/Tyrod Taylor type.
By the way: I find it really interesting that the nearly unanimous mantra this off season on this site was: no more excuses for Jones, 2021 is the prove it year. Now that we are 6 games in and the production just isn't there, all we hear are excuses.
It just doesn't fly with me that a top-10 franchise QB can play 20 straight games with such little production. Sure the bad team around him would be responsible for a couple of duds and bad games, but Jones just does not produce enough offense and he doesn't produce enough wins. He hasn't since his Duke days.
I understand that we all want him to be a top QB soooo bad, but there comes a time we have to face the fact that we are dealing with a Trubisky/Bortles situation here. The last thing we want is to give a guy like that 25 million a year, because we are just so afraid to admit we missed on our 1st round QB.
Lets see how many fire DG and fire Judge threads we can get before the end of the day
Uhh yeah adjusted, lets rush 3 or 4 and have everyone else out covering bc Giants cant block or run the ball and have wrs that scare anybody.. heck of an adjustment by DCs
No, you show him one thing pre-snap, and do something else. He has struggled with post-snap recognition from day one. That's OK, all young QB's struggle with it, he just hasn't gotten much better at it.
DJ is the very least of our issues...
Its not like the times he had Barkley, we were lighting it up.. See Pitt game from last year, Falcons game from this year? Denver game this year? Last year Dak was missing all his pro-bowl OL, yet he was putting up godly numbers.. I don't see a valid reason why a franchise QB can't put up better numbers than what we have seen.. plus add to it the number of fumbles..15 fumbles in less than season and a half..
Proof that (1) recency bias is a big deal and (2) you can find stats to support most narratives if you work hard enough
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In those 20 games how many times did he have talent on the offensive line? How many games was he missing 1,2 or 3 of his receivers? How about Barkley.
DJ is the very least of our issues...
Its not like the times he had Barkley, we were lighting it up.. See Pitt game from last year, Falcons game from this year? Denver game this year? Last year Dak was missing all his pro-bowl OL, yet he was putting up godly numbers.. I don't see a valid reason why a franchise QB can't put up better numbers than what we have seen.. plus add to it the number of fumbles..15 fumbles in less than season and a half..
Do yourself a favor and compare DJ's first two seasons to Eli and Peytons... and Troy Aikman's....
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In comment 15419319 DannyDimes said:
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In those 20 games how many times did he have talent on the offensive line? How many games was he missing 1,2 or 3 of his receivers? How about Barkley.
DJ is the very least of our issues...
Its not like the times he had Barkley, we were lighting it up.. See Pitt game from last year, Falcons game from this year? Denver game this year? Last year Dak was missing all his pro-bowl OL, yet he was putting up godly numbers.. I don't see a valid reason why a franchise QB can't put up better numbers than what we have seen.. plus add to it the number of fumbles..15 fumbles in less than season and a half..
Do yourself a favor and compare DJ's first two seasons to Eli and Peytons... and Troy Aikman's....
Irrelevant, in too many ways to even list...
Hell it’s played entirely different than it was when we last won a super bowl.
Cause it could get worse than it was yesterday? I mean people can blame everyone else.... but the one play that summed it up for me was when Jones had Johnson on a fade. The defender was lost and clueless. I dont care if Johnson is ascrub, he was NFL open and interfered with.
The problem is Jones threw it into the 5th row instead of giving his WR a chance to make a play.
Then I come on here and read this post, as well as a series of other post-game takes and I no longer have that belief.
DJ may or may not be the starting QB in 2022, but pulling the plug on him for Glennon after 6 games...when he played very well in 4 of them, is among the dumbest ideas expressed on BBI in the 25 years I've been on here.
Then I come on here and read this post, as well as a series of other post-game takes and I no longer have that belief.
DJ may or may not be the starting QB in 2022, but pulling the plug on him for Glennon after 6 games...when he played very well in 4 of them, is among the dumbest ideas expressed on BBI in the 25 years I've been on here.
Can you tell me what 4 games he played "well" in?
The franchise is full of rot.
Losing is acceptable if there is progress.
No, it isn't.
Win or GTFO.
How about that?
Then I come on here and read this post, as well as a series of other post-game takes and I no longer have that belief.
DJ may or may not be the starting QB in 2022, but pulling the plug on him for Glennon after 6 games...when he played very well in 4 of them, is among the dumbest ideas expressed on BBI in the 25 years I've been on here.
All QBs would fail here.
If we don't try anyone else for more than a game, where they take all the snaps for a few weeks how will we ever know?
Give him a concussion rest, protect his ego.
People don't want to know.
That game was Jones at his very tippy top best. QBs don't play at their best 15 out of 17 games. Mahomes' best is 450 yards 5 TDs, he doesn't do that every week. But Mahomes is good to do Jones' best, most weeks.
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need the New Orleans game to be the norm, which I think it can be. Just sucks that we are still patchworking everything together.
That game was Jones at his very tippy top best. QBs don't play at their best 15 out of 17 games. Mahomes' best is 450 yards 5 TDs, he doesn't do that every week. But Mahomes is good to do Jones' best, most weeks.
This. Mahomes was bad yesterday and went 397-2-2. Jones bad games aren’t even half that good.
LOL! Obviously DG made one great pick in Jones. However, his utter incompetence on all other selections is holding Daniel back from the greatness that he is capable of.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that all of these things are possible:
- Gettleman has no idea how to build a team
- Judge is not a good head coach
- Jones is not a franchise QB
When a team "achieves" a triple crown such as this, it results in the consistent incompetence that we are seeing on the field.
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understood the game better than many other fan bases.
Then I come on here and read this post, as well as a series of other post-game takes and I no longer have that belief.
DJ may or may not be the starting QB in 2022, but pulling the plug on him for Glennon after 6 games...when he played very well in 4 of them, is among the dumbest ideas expressed on BBI in the 25 years I've been on here.
No it is not. If Glennon plays better than Jones, it will tell you a fuck ton about Jones. If we don't try anyone else we will continue to hear shit like.
All QBs would fail here.
If we don't try anyone else for more than a game, where they take all the snaps for a few weeks how will we ever know?
Give him a concussion rest, protect his ego.
People don't want to know.
I would be curious to see GLennon more and that was the time to do it. No one would bat an eye if Judge came out and said " look Jones got banged up good in Dallas he is our starter, but given that he is on concussion protocol and Glennon got all the reps in practice; we're giving Jones the day off and starting Glennon". THat is quite different than saying " we want to see what we have in Glennon" in week 6 or whatever.
If you saw his 2nd INT, you would have thought he never played the game before. It was that bad. lol
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about Mahomes' game yesterday?
If you saw his 2nd INT, you would have thought he never played the game before. It was that bad. lol
That is one play though.
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In comment 15419533 crick n NC said:
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about Mahomes' game yesterday?
If you saw his 2nd INT, you would have thought he never played the game before. It was that bad. lol
That is one play though.
I think ther eference that 390 and 2/2 is a BAD day for Mahomes. Which shows how good he is.
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need the New Orleans game to be the norm, which I think it can be. Just sucks that we are still patchworking everything together.
That game was Jones at his very tippy top best. QBs don't play at their best 15 out of 17 games. Mahomes' best is 450 yards 5 TDs, he doesn't do that every week. But Mahomes is good to do Jones' best, most weeks.
Yeah, even the most ardent critics of Jones wouldn't demand that he play like he did in New Orleans every week.
That said, the baseline should be his performance in Washington. Every one of his passing statistics in that game were right on what you'd expect over a full season from a top 10 NFL QB.
Using 2020 season stats:
Comp: 68.75% (8th)
Y/A: 7.78 (8th)
Rating: 102.2 (9th)
TDs: 2 total (on per game basis would be middle of the pack)
The problem is that the WFT game represents one of the best starts of Jones' career. If he was doing that regularly, I don't think we'd have a problem.
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In comment 15419485 ryanmkeane said:
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need the New Orleans game to be the norm, which I think it can be. Just sucks that we are still patchworking everything together.
That game was Jones at his very tippy top best. QBs don't play at their best 15 out of 17 games. Mahomes' best is 450 yards 5 TDs, he doesn't do that every week. But Mahomes is good to do Jones' best, most weeks.
Yeah, even the most ardent critics of Jones wouldn't demand that he play like he did in New Orleans every week.
That said, the baseline should be his performance in Washington. Every one of his passing statistics in that game were right on what you'd expect over a full season from a top 10 NFL QB.
Using 2020 season stats:
Comp: 68.75% (8th)
Y/A: 7.78 (8th)
Rating: 102.2 (9th)
TDs: 2 total (on per game basis would be middle of the pack)
The problem is that the WFT game represents one of the best starts of Jones' career. If he was doing that regularly, I don't think we'd have a problem.
Terps said he needed to play better than that each week. In fact he said his performance was not impressive.
Comp: 68.75% (8th)
Y/A: 7.78 (8th)
Rating: 102.2 (9th)
TDs: 2 total (on per game basis would be middle of the pack)
The problem is that the WFT game represents one of the best starts of Jones' career. If he was doing that regularly, I don't think we'd have a problem.
Terps said he needed to play better than that each week. In fact he said his performance was not impressive.
And...?
Seems irrelevant when most weeks Jones doesn't even approach that.
Maybe you should consider not obsessing over one particular poster and just address the content of my comment? Jesus, grow up.
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understand why I made that comment? You made a statement that even his hardest critics don't expect him to play like he did versus the saints each week. I found one right away.
Maybe you should consider not obsessing over one particular poster and just address the content of my comment? Jesus, grow up.
That comment was important enough for you to state in your post to help your point, but I am out of bounds for calling BS on it? I like your deals.
NO is looking like a blip.
Would you be saying that is he picked Jones at 17 or even in the 2nd round?
The fact is this team is so terrible and been picking high in the draft that you can't even look at this as a wasted pick.
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In comment 15419573 crick n NC said:
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understand why I made that comment? You made a statement that even his hardest critics don't expect him to play like he did versus the saints each week. I found one right away.
Maybe you should consider not obsessing over one particular poster and just address the content of my comment? Jesus, grow up.
That comment was important enough for you to state in your post to help your point, but I am out of bounds for calling BS on it? I like your deals.
Since it seems clear you aren't willing to have an actual discussion without making this about BBI grudges and politics and whatever else is going on in that head of yours, I'm going to stop here. Have a lovely day.
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In comment 15419578 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15419573 crick n NC said:
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understand why I made that comment? You made a statement that even his hardest critics don't expect him to play like he did versus the saints each week. I found one right away.
Maybe you should consider not obsessing over one particular poster and just address the content of my comment? Jesus, grow up.
That comment was important enough for you to state in your post to help your point, but I am out of bounds for calling BS on it? I like your deals.
Since it seems clear you aren't willing to have an actual discussion without making this about BBI grudges and politics and whatever else is going on in that head of yours, I'm going to stop here. Have a lovely day.
That is a shame that is fair for you to point out bs in other's posts, but call foul when done to you.
btw, find my obsession with terps. You won't. You are on a roll of BS posts today.
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In comment 15419319 DannyDimes said:
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In those 20 games how many times did he have talent on the offensive line? How many games was he missing 1,2 or 3 of his receivers? How about Barkley.
DJ is the very least of our issues...
Its not like the times he had Barkley, we were lighting it up.. See Pitt game from last year, Falcons game from this year? Denver game this year? Last year Dak was missing all his pro-bowl OL, yet he was putting up godly numbers.. I don't see a valid reason why a franchise QB can't put up better numbers than what we have seen.. plus add to it the number of fumbles..15 fumbles in less than season and a half..
Do yourself a favor and compare DJ's first two seasons to Eli and Peytons... and Troy Aikman's....
Are you serious? we are going to compares numbers across era ? Aikman and Peyton played in an era where one, may be 2 QBs threw for 30 TDs.. during Aikman's first season no QB threw for 30 TDs.. last year 10+ qbs were responsible for 30Tds.. Danny Dimes was behind Nick Mullens.. Mullens's team was 5x more injured than Danny Dimes.. whats his excuse?
That is a shame that is fair for you to point out bs in other's posts, but call foul when done to you.
btw, find my obsession with terps. You won't. You are on a roll of BS posts today.
Good luck baiting someone into an argument today. It's not going to be me.
Then I come on here and read this post, as well as a series of other post-game takes and I no longer have that belief.
DJ may or may not be the starting QB in 2022, but pulling the plug on him for Glennon after 6 games...when he played very well in 4 of them, is among the dumbest ideas expressed on BBI in the 25 years I've been on here.
I am not going to argue with your assessment of posters here but which 4 games ? I hope you are not tellin gme he played well in the Atlanta game or Dallas game.
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In comment 15419257 GNewGiants said:
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In comment 15419250 Chris684 said:
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Devontae Booker (a 3rd down back) as RB1, Pettis, some guy named Collin Johnson, Evan Engram (enough said), the corpse of Kyle Rudolph, and Sterling Shepard.
With a line bookended by Nate Solder and a 2nd year tackle in Peart. Oh, and a couple of interior lineman picked up off the scrap heap.
For fuck's sake.
Well we know Jones isnt. Again, 20 games, not 1.
Find any 3 games where he had any type of protection and weapons in 20 games.. Ill wait. I can think of 2 we won both
He was pretty well protected all year until this week. Getting sacked 1-2 games isnt that bad.
You really wrote that? Did you not watch the games last year? the line was aawful until the end of the year and he got hurt. He had so many weapons that they added 4
Then I come on here and read this post, as well as a series of other post-game takes and I no longer have that belief.
DJ may or may not be the starting QB in 2022, but pulling the plug on him for Glennon after 6 games...when he played very well in 4 of them, is among the dumbest ideas expressed on BBI in the 25 years I've been on here.
Holy fuck absolutely this!!!!