NFT: Best NY coaches/managers of all time?

John J. McGraw, Casey Stengel, and Steve Owen.

Took a perennial basement dweller to a World Series title in 2 short years. Who knows what he may have accomplished had he lived longer. Also, was a beloved figure in the NY sports scene for 2 1/2 decades.

... of course.

In comment 15457057 Banks said:

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LOL

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then Little Bill should be near the top of the list.

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stewarded the Giants for 23 years, which spanned the Great Depression and World War II, won 8 division titles and two World Championships, devised the unique (and non-replicable) A-Formation on offense and the forerunner of all modern defenses, The Umbrella (refined by Tom Landry to the 4-3).

would have been a nice answer.

of the pre-wWWII Yankees.

In comment 15457132 Giantgator said:

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Criminally underrated on this site. Underrated in 2015 too. Yep I am still screaming about this. Don't like it tough shit.

In comment 15457104 Ira said:

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Holzman for sure. Throw in Parcells and Coughlin and I'm satisfied. Gil Hodges for the '69 Mets too.

In comment 15457211 djm said:

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In comment 15457132 Giantgator said: Quote: . Criminally underrated on this site. Underrated in 2015 too. Yep I am still screaming about this. Don't like it tough shit.

No, he really is not "criminally underrated." He is who he is. From 2005-2011, the Giants were mostly good, but they were also wildly inconsistent at times. They had second half collapses (2006, 2009, 2010-- I wont count 2008 although we clearly did not play well down the stretch) and then he had two seasons where it all came together down the stretch and we won titles. That is obviously something extraordinarily important when evaluating his leagcy. He was not good for 2012 until he was fired. So, take that record for what is worth. It is a good coach, but not a great coach. He was not Casey Stengal, Joe Torre, Bill Parcells, Red Holzman, Al Arbour, etc etc. I am sure I am forgetting someone, but coaches whose team were mainly excellent year in and year out.

Holzman, Little Bill, Lombardi...

BTW, Al Arbour's Islanders won 19 straight playoff series at one point...let that one sink in...

In comment 15457227 Essex said:

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In comment 15457211 djm said: Quote: In comment 15457132 Giantgator said: Quote: . Criminally underrated on this site. Underrated in 2015 too. Yep I am still screaming about this. Don't like it tough shit. No, he really is not "criminally underrated." He is who he is. From 2005-2011, the Giants were mostly good, but they were also wildly inconsistent at times. They had second half collapses (2006, 2009, 2010-- I wont count 2008 although we clearly did not play well down the stretch) and then he had two seasons where it all came together down the stretch and we won titles. That is obviously something extraordinarily important when evaluating his leagcy. He was not good for 2012 until he was fired. So, take that record for what is worth. It is a good coach, but not a great coach. He was not Casey Stengal, Joe Torre, Bill Parcells, Red Holzman, Al Arbour, etc etc. I am sure I am forgetting someone, but coaches whose team were mainly excellent year in and year out.

Thanks for making my point. He wasn't Parcells here? The numbers say otherwise. And I don't need anyone to tell me what Parcells did or didn't do, I lived it. I went to the games. I remember each and every moment and there were plenty of painful ones.

He's criminally underrated here. He's a legendary NYG figure. He's not always treated like one around here.

How did Parcells do when his teams weren't any good? 8-9 wins. Coughlin sunk to 6-7 wins. Three times out of like 10. it also happened to Parcells.

I don't care, fine, Parcells was better, but he wasn't THAT much better here evidenced by every single metric known to man. And Parcells was gifted Lawrence Taylor. Coughlin wasn't.

we haven't hired a replacement for Coughlin yet. Still waiting.

the best HC in NY sports history was a Yankee manager. Take your pick, whichever one won the most. If we're going on wins and losses and memorable moments it's a slam dunk case.

In comment 15457295 djm said:

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we haven't hired a replacement for Coughlin yet. Still waiting.

We had to replace Coughlin because he was 28-36 in his last four years here and many of those wins were the late season wins (from 2013 onward) were those late season wins that we constantly here about that are meaningless. So, yeah, we haven't replaced the Coughlin from 2005-2011, but we certainly have maintained the status quo Coughlin from 2012-2015. Not sure what your point is. And Bill Parcells may have been gifted LT, but he never had one receiver on the level of Plaxico, Amani, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz. He won with a bunch of JAGS at WR and a great Tight End.

In comment 15457293 djm said:

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In comment 15457227 Essex said: Quote: In comment 15457211 djm said: Quote: In comment 15457132 Giantgator said: Quote: . Criminally underrated on this site. Underrated in 2015 too. Yep I am still screaming about this. Don't like it tough shit. No, he really is not "criminally underrated." He is who he is. From 2005-2011, the Giants were mostly good, but they were also wildly inconsistent at times. They had second half collapses (2006, 2009, 2010-- I wont count 2008 although we clearly did not play well down the stretch) and then he had two seasons where it all came together down the stretch and we won titles. That is obviously something extraordinarily important when evaluating his leagcy. He was not good for 2012 until he was fired. So, take that record for what is worth. It is a good coach, but not a great coach. He was not Casey Stengal, Joe Torre, Bill Parcells, Red Holzman, Al Arbour, etc etc. I am sure I am forgetting someone, but coaches whose team were mainly excellent year in and year out. Thanks for making my point. He wasn't Parcells here? The numbers say otherwise. And I don't need anyone to tell me what Parcells did or didn't do, I lived it. I went to the games. I remember each and every moment and there were plenty of painful ones. He's criminally underrated here. He's a legendary NYG figure. He's not always treated like one around here. How did Parcells do when his teams weren't any good? 8-9 wins. Coughlin sunk to 6-7 wins. Three times out of like 10. it also happened to Parcells. I don't care, fine, Parcells was better, but he wasn't THAT much better here evidenced by every single metric known to man. And Parcells was gifted Lawrence Taylor. Coughlin wasn't.

So true. Coughlin is my favorite coach of all time, any sport.

In comment 15457306 Essex said:

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In comment 15457295 djm said: Quote: we haven't hired a replacement for Coughlin yet. Still waiting. We had to replace Coughlin because he was 28-36 in his last four years here and many of those wins were the late season wins (from 2013 onward) were those late season wins that we constantly here about that are meaningless. So, yeah, we haven't replaced the Coughlin from 2005-2011, but we certainly have maintained the status quo Coughlin from 2012-2015. Not sure what your point is. And Bill Parcells may have been gifted LT, but he never had one receiver on the level of Plaxico, Amani, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz. He won with a bunch of JAGS at WR and a great Tight End.

I don't want to split hairs but he had MArk Bavaro and a great OL and great running backs and the best defense in the NFL.

Not related, but check that 2015 roster again and tell me with a straight face anyone else could have gotten more out of it.

We should have given Coughlin 2016 with Reese, and then nuked it from orbit the minute that team fell apart. It would ahve won in 16 and 17 and quit by 2018-19. Then it would be over. We fired the wrong guy, left the dead man walking in charge to spend money and then promoted the worst NYG figure since Ray Handley. We haf assed it and fired the HC because he was older. And the curse lives on.

In comment 15457306 Essex said:

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In comment 15457295 djm said: Quote: we haven't hired a replacement for Coughlin yet. Still waiting. We had to replace Coughlin because he was 28-36 in his last four years here and many of those wins were the late season wins (from 2013 onward) were those late season wins that we constantly here about that are meaningless. So, yeah, we haven't replaced the Coughlin from 2005-2011, but we certainly have maintained the status quo Coughlin from 2012-2015. Not sure what your point is. And Bill Parcells may have been gifted LT, but he never had one receiver on the level of Plaxico, Amani, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz. He won with a bunch of JAGS at WR and a great Tight End.

Outside of Toomer most of those guys couldn’t replicate what they did under Coughlin anywhere else.

during my lifetime, but Coughlin is underrated around here evidenced by the seconds it took for some to wax about Parcells while nitpicking Coughlin's tenure. They both can be nitpicked and both won two titles. That's all that matters. I've said my piece. We can move on.

as I"m 50.

I'd like to add NY area and then I would include Jaques Lemaire.

In comment 15457336 SLIM_ said:

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as I"m 50. I'd like to add NY area and then I would include Jaques Lemaire.

I definitely thought about him. He only had one championship, but all his Devils teams were good and he set the template for all those other Cup finals runs and Cup runs. However, I was unsure why he left in 98. I honestly can't remember. Did he go upstairs to work with Lou? I just don't remember why he left the bench before that period where the Devils when on that crazy run until 2003. I think 2 more cup wins and one loss in the finals (game 7 I think to Colorado?).

but didn't Lemaire basically revolutionize hockey, with defending the lines and all that?

Essex - I can't remember myself. If you recall, Lou had a very short leash. My guess it was a parting of ways. Yes only 1 cup but they instantly got better under him and his system lasted through many other coaches. During that run, he had a great way of pushing his team.

Spicy - Some would say he set hockey back many years with the trap. His early teams were sometimes very high scoring but then he built the team around Brodeur's strength in puck handling in conjunction with the trap.

In comment 15457312 djm said:

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In comment 15457306 Essex said: Quote: In comment 15457295 djm said: Quote: we haven't hired a replacement for Coughlin yet. Still waiting. We had to replace Coughlin because he was 28-36 in his last four years here and many of those wins were the late season wins (from 2013 onward) were those late season wins that we constantly here about that are meaningless. So, yeah, we haven't replaced the Coughlin from 2005-2011, but we certainly have maintained the status quo Coughlin from 2012-2015. Not sure what your point is. And Bill Parcells may have been gifted LT, but he never had one receiver on the level of Plaxico, Amani, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz. He won with a bunch of JAGS at WR and a great Tight End. I don't want to split hairs but he had MArk Bavaro and a great OL and great running backs and the best defense in the NFL. Not related, but check that 2015 roster again and tell me with a straight face anyone else could have gotten more out of it. We should have given Coughlin 2016 with Reese, and then nuked it from orbit the minute that team fell apart. It would ahve won in 16 and 17 and quit by 2018-19. Then it would be over. We fired the wrong guy, left the dead man walking in charge to spend money and then promoted the worst NYG figure since Ray Handley. We haf assed it and fired the HC because he was older. And the curse lives on.

+ 10000

Hockey is very technical and boring now with big lummuxes standing in front of the goalie deflecting shots or chipping in rebounds.

No Gil Hodges fans?