It's like looking at the woman at the pharmacy wearing a mini skirt in January who isn't shy about picking up her Valtrex and thinking "Wife material!!!!"
The biggest problem with this team is QB. I understand he hasn't played great recently, and I believe it to be related to his finger injury.
But the dude is a champion, his teams have almost yearly been a playoff team. Sure, I'd rather have the NEXT great QB via the draft, but that's not happening.
But unless the Seahawks cut him, that's a ton of money to try to make room for under the cap.
I don't see how transactionally any deal, even if the Seahawks were to cut him, could make sense for next season with the Giants' cap being considered, and the very real possibility the Giants will already have $8.3M in dead money they are paying a QB who can't play.
Giants can't afford him. Both from a salary cap perspective, and draft collateral that would have to be given up to obtain him. Wilson can't rush the QB and would be little better at QB behind this line. The team must address the OL and Pass Rush this year using its high draft pick.
It's like looking at the woman at the pharmacy wearing a mini skirt in January who isn't shy about picking up her Valtrex and thinking "Wife material!!!!"
Why? The Giants have a franchise LT, a couple of good playmakers on offense, and a good defense. Get a few more pieces on OL and he could transform the franchise. Only problem is the money doesn't work.
he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
It's like looking at the woman at the pharmacy wearing a mini skirt in January who isn't shy about picking up her Valtrex and thinking "Wife material!!!!"
very shortsighted and amateurish GMing. WTF is Wilson supposed to do with this OL and injury prone weapons? Rumors like these kill me cause it's like they are trying to take the easy way out and refuse to acknowledge reality!
Giving up draft choices for Russell Wilson is insane. Why would he be
sure... Russel is talking about wanting to play for the worst franchise in the league while still under contract with Seattle.
Why? Because he is not running for his life enough in Seattle...so he wants to play behind a line that will get him crushed with no chance to win a championship.
Anyone who believes these reports.. lol
RE: RE: RE: I don't think people realize the massive jump in quality
he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
Riddle me this...
The Broncos put up 28 points against the Chargers.
Their QBs threw for 1TD 1int and 150 yards and won
What will our QB have to do on Sunday to get to 28 points and win?
What would Russell Wilson do?
movement this offseason. Wilson, Watson, Rodgers may all be in play. Saints, Philly, WFT, Denver may all be shopping.
Looking at the Giants I wonder how they would look at the Giants situation. Play for Judge? Freddie? The emerging OL? SB's pass protection? The weapons who seem to have a hard time suiting up with regularity?
If we had a successful draft in 2022 , I would make a play for a qb
Not ready yet
Cap should be better in 2023 to fit one in too
Much rather draft a cost controlled qb that pans out. But that’s a 50/50 call at best with first rd picks
Heck. , maybe 30/70
Is he going to be playing at his high level for another for years? If he is, he's a better use of picks and cap space than anything the Giants are likely to otherwise do with whatever they trade for him and whatever cap space they use on him.
he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
Riddle me this...
The Broncos put up 28 points against the Chargers.
Their QBs threw for 1TD 1int and 150 yards and won
What will our QB have to do on Sunday to get to 28 points and win?
What would Russell Wilson do?
Its a great riddle. Your reaction to my post seems to be predicated on some notion that I'm claiming 1. Wilson makes us great and 2. We can even afford him.
I happen to think Wilson with our current healthy Giants roster is a playoff team. If you don't that's cool, but I don't care about all the other scenarios you post. The Jets have scored 34 points against Cincy, what does that tell us? Nothing.
he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
Riddle me this...
The Broncos put up 28 points against the Chargers.
Their QBs threw for 1TD 1int and 150 yards and won
What will our QB have to do on Sunday to get to 28 points and win?
What would Russell Wilson do?
Its a great riddle. Your reaction to my post seems to be predicated on some notion that I'm claiming 1. Wilson makes us great and 2. We can even afford him.
I happen to think Wilson with our current healthy Giants roster is a playoff team. If you don't that's cool, but I don't care about all the other scenarios you post. The Jets have scored 34 points against Cincy, what does that tell us? Nothing.
I agree, I think Wilson has a good 5 years left. Its really about the money and what we can build around him in the meantime.
When the alternative is Jones, Glennon, Fromm or someone from
Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, Baker, Thomas, and Toney...do those guys added up equal Wilson? Nope. And that's six first rounders - a lot more than it's going to take to get Wilson.
You can acquire Wilson and still improve the roster around him. There will be other picks, other cap space, and other trades.
I honestly don't think we could fit him under the cap next year.
We would have to cut virtually every player on our team in the top half of the salary list, and take massive dead cap hits. It will never happen. In 2023, we could make it happen but likley too late.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't think people realize the massive jump in quality
he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
Riddle me this...
The Broncos put up 28 points against the Chargers.
Their QBs threw for 1TD 1int and 150 yards and won
What will our QB have to do on Sunday to get to 28 points and win?
What would Russell Wilson do?
Its a great riddle. Your reaction to my post seems to be predicated on some notion that I'm claiming 1. Wilson makes us great and 2. We can even afford him.
I happen to think Wilson with our current healthy Giants roster is a playoff team. If you don't that's cool, but I don't care about all the other scenarios you post. The Jets have scored 34 points against Cincy, what does that tell us? Nothing.
I don't want you to think I'm attacking you. I'm just trying to prove an overall point. We play the Chargers this week and they just got beat with bad QB play
In the 2 games this year we came close to scoring 30 points this year, Daniel Jones was lights out throwing and running the ball and we still lost to the Skins.
My point is...this offense is dreadful to the point that if Wilson comes here he will have to play perfect.
It's possible. But unlikely considering the turds he would be surrounded with
We would have to cut virtually every player on our team in the top half of the salary list, and take massive dead cap hits. It will never happen. In 2023, we could make it happen but likley too late.
They would have to extend him and/or convert to more guaranteed money.
Wilson would cost the Giants $24m in 2022 and $27m in 2023. They could certainly rework and/or extend him to change that but those are his salary/cap numbers if traded.
RE: Look at what the Giants have done with their last six first rounders
Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, Baker, Thomas, and Toney...do those guys added up equal Wilson? Nope. And that's six first rounders - a lot more than it's going to take to get Wilson.
You can acquire Wilson and still improve the roster around him. There will be other picks, other cap space, and other trades.
While true, that doesn't change the cap situation which will hamstring all the other things you need to do to rebuild the team. Unless you think we'll hit on every draft pick and they are all OL, we're going to need a free agent or two other than Wilson to field a competent team.
I say, start all over with a cheaper vet while you figure out the answer at QB.
but if that report is accurate, the Saints and Broncos are quite a bit more attractive than the Giants right now. They don't have two draft picks in the top 10, however.
Extend Williams (yes, extend him- will be costly but we have space in future years and we might as well keep him- he is scheme flexible). Could open up $14 mil
Redo Martinez deal and hope for his healthy return- opens up more 2022 space.
If Wilson were any good Seattle would not consider trading him
He has not played well this year and the end of last year
Wilson should go to a good team that can protect him and run the ball
When under pressure Wilson is below average
Wilson was great with a strong running game , play action and deep passing
He also needs great receivers as he tends to put a lot of contested balls
That would leave the Giants out
Wilson is 33 and in decline
He has two years left on his contract ( $24m and $27m )
If you extend him you will be resigning a 35 year old qb in decline
By trading the 3 DPs the Giants would not be able to improve the team
The Giants would be insane to trade for Wilson that would go down as one the worst trades in Giants history
but if that report is accurate, the Saints and Broncos are quite a bit more attractive than the Giants right now. They don't have two draft picks in the top 10, however.
Well, it's virtually guaranteed Rodgers will be on auction too and rumors are Broncos are likely to go after him hard. Panthers are another team possibly in QB market.
However, the right approach is to closely monitor Wilson's play this last month to make sure his finger is healed and that Wilson isn't getting close to the proverbial QB cliff.
You never when that is going to creep up on anyone. And right now Wilson's YTD QBT is somewhat concerning.
The Giants draft has been a mixed bag but you have to keep drafting players. The draft is acknowledged as the best way to build a team. You do not give away high draft picks for a declining QB who is past his prime.
A premiere OT and Edge will do more to improve the team than Wilson.
24 million - 2022- 32 years old
27 million - 2023- 33 years old
2024-FA
The signing bonus is gone with the trade and Seattle eats a ton of dead money.
I would take him for 2 years in a heartbeat.
He's going to want, and any team acquiring him is going to want some more term locked in along with a year or two flexibility for cut for cap purposes.
we laugh at the Rams and trading away all their picks...but theyre winning and we are not. The draft is a lottery pick anyways. Brady is like 50 and still playing.
..if he proves out healthy and cost is reasonable,
and it comes with a new GM.
gives them a shot at reaching fassel level competitiveness for 3-5 years, which is a far cry from today's situ.
It'd be wasting money on an engine when you don't have a car to put it in.
If the asking price is low, maybe, but it won't be.
And if the Giants do pull the trigger, make the trade, and we still suck, the same posters who are creaming their jeans over the trade will be blasting the Giants for not improving the team, ignoring that the trade will handicap the ability to improve.
which I believe frees up about $33M. They currently have $4M in space. Wilson would cost $24M, so it would take further maneuvering to fit in the cap space for the draft picks (albeit assuming some of the picks would go to acquire Wilson) and there would pretty much be no other moves for the offseason.
Other possible cuts are Nick Gates to save $2.5M and Blake Martinez to save $8.5M but I'm not sure who their injured status plays into that.
RE: Could cut Bradberry, Shephard, Rudolph and Dixon
which I believe frees up about $33M. They currently have $4M in space. Wilson would cost $24M, so it would take further maneuvering to fit in the cap space for the draft picks (albeit assuming some of the picks would go to acquire Wilson) and there would pretty much be no other moves for the offseason.
Other possible cuts are Nick Gates to save $2.5M and Blake Martinez to save $8.5M but I'm not sure who their injured status plays into that.
But I'm not giving up a 1st round pick. Might not even give up a 2nd. So no point talking about it as someone will probably give them that. So be it, let them.
NYC is on Ciara's shortlist, so by extension the Giants are on Russ' shortlist. Judging by their very public social media presence, she may have an even bigger say than him. That is why Russell Wilson would want to dive right into this dumpster fire.
Whether or not we play ball? He's having a rough year but a lot of that is the result of playing through an injury he rushed back from. I believe he's still a Top 5 QB and if a Top 5 QB is open to your franchise and you need a QB, you pick up the phone.
His WIFE likes NY, but he would be an idiot to put himself behind this line. If Seattle's O-Line was driving him nuts, The Giants O-Line for next 3 years is going to be responsible for more dead bodies than a Terminator Movie
They spent a ton of money on Shepard and Golladay and a first round pick on Toney. They can only be playmakers if someone gets them the ball. Bringing Jones back or a Bridgewater/Minshew type journeyman is not the answer and will simply waster more time.
Obviously he would need to show this last month that his hand is fine and he can still play at a high level, and the compensation would need to be reasonable, but first round picks have become fairly disposable over the last 4 years with the Giants.
I'd take the Carson Wentz trade if available for Russell Wilson
which I believe frees up about $33M. They currently have $4M in space. Wilson would cost $24M, so it would take further maneuvering to fit in the cap space for the draft picks (albeit assuming some of the picks would go to acquire Wilson) and there would pretty much be no other moves for the offseason.
Other possible cuts are Nick Gates to save $2.5M and Blake Martinez to save $8.5M but I'm not sure who their injured status plays into that.
And there's the issue. If you want to watch Wilson run around all game and still lose, we can fit him under the cap. But to be competitive, we're going to need Wilson and some other players, especially on the OL. And since we're giving up at least some premium picks in the trade, we'll need to have money to sign some vets, even if we're smart about it. Again, start over. If you don't want to pick up Jones option, find a cheap vet to tide us over. If we pick the right one, we can be competitive.
that the majority of highly paid players here cannot be moved or they don't want to just cut vets that they think can play, they probably need to seriously consider a guy like WIlson.
To me there's little difference in being capped out and losing 10 games vs having cap space and losing 10 games. Both suck. Both don't guarantee a fucking thing. Why not go for 10 wins.
I am not even sure i'd do it, Wilson may cost too much, but if you can steal him at a somewhat palatable cost, you have to do it.
two years ago. Russ alone isn't enough to make this team a contender, they can't afford him and he'll be non-effective/retired by time the team is ready to compete assuming that things get turned around. And that's a very hard assumption to make right now.
Have you looked at his numbers? He threw 40 TD’s last year!!
A full organizational reset with a new GM/HC and Wilson could be just what this team needs. Add in the fact that Mara paid a lot of money for “win now” Golladay & Adoree Jackson. Signed Rudolph too.
Is he going to be playing at his high level for another for years? If he is, he's a better use of picks and cap space than anything the Giants are likely to otherwise do with whatever they trade for him and whatever cap space they use on him.
at the very least we can be sure he'd continue to work incredibly hard at his craft and provide leadership missing from the HC on down. I would take Russ all day. He'd legitimately be a top 2 or 3 QB in franchise history starting week 1 2022.
24 million - 2022- 33 years old (Not 32)
27 million - 2023- 34 years old (Not 33) and will turn 35 before the season is over
2024-FA
Might seem minor but IMHO most franchise QBs start their decline around 35. It's hard to notice as they are still better than most of their competition due to experience and talent but that's when I notice a decline. I could see it in Eli, Ben, Brees, and even Brady albeit Brady's decline is pretty damn slow.
For the record, as far as the money is concerned, Giants could make it work. Right now it looks like they have no available money next year but the year after they are loaded. This means there is a lot they can do to move money around to make room. OFC they would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
That being said, I'm of the opinion that the team will be blown up to start the rebuild in the off-season. They will need their draft picks to rebuild. Due to Wilson's age, his best shot is to go to a contender. The only team that should want Wilson is a contender that just needs that QB to get them over that hump.
I'd love to see Wilson in blue but it's not the smart play for him or the Giants.
Giants' should press on with some kind of a game manager QB until they can at least stabilize the team. Lower the number of injuries, avoid players with an injury history in FA and the draft, and solidify the trenches. Then go after the QB they want/need. If that QB is a rookie we can at least properly evaluate him without caveats.
RE: I'd take the Carson Wentz trade if available for Russell Wilson
2022 third round pick and Conditional 2023 second round pick and if Wilson plays 75% of the snaps, it becomes a 2023 first round pick.
I just feel we need both our first round picks to address the trenches on both O-line and Pass Rusher.
Not even close to what it would cost. I think a lot depends on how the Seahawks value Jones but the Giants would be looking at one of the 2022 1s without any sort of qualifiers. At a minimum. I imagine Seattle would open asking for both.
Giants have demonstrated no ability to build an OL
or acquire the correct weapons. Doesn't make much sense to hand over two top 5 picks to be given the gift of his contract, while he's surrounded by a poor roster.
He’s better than what they have currently but, his best days are behind him. Plus, he likely wants to move to NY so he and Ciara can live in a huge media market to have better exposure. I’d be afraid he’s coming here more for his career post football than he would be for wanting to play for the Giants.
Have any of you actually watched Wilson play this year and the end of last year?
He has not been very good
Wilson vs. the Packers was one the worst QB games that I have seen
He had a QB rating of 39, and against
Arizona a QB rating of 80.
I these games he made DJ look good
He is missing open receivers, his throws lack any zip.
He no longer has the escape ability and takes awful sacks
His stats do not properly reflect the extent of his poor play. Seattle was behind in many games and had to throw the ball.
If Seattle can't win with him what makes anyone think that the Giants with a worse surrounding cast can win with him.
If Wilson is so good why in the world would Seattle trade him?
See Mara wanting to make this happen as a sign to the fans that he’s willing to make big ballsy moves to right the ship. It doesn’t mean it’s the right move especially if we need to give up one or both first round picks and forgo investments in other need areas.
By the time the rest of the team around him gets good, he will be read
or acquire the correct weapons. Doesn't make much sense to hand over two top 5 picks to be given the gift of his contract, while he's surrounded by a poor roster.
I think you need to look at Wilson through a different lens. Does he have the ability to take what we have and get the very best out it? And the answer is clearly yes. He will be able to optimize what we have. JAG Jones doesn't have that skill.
In other words, we may actually have more right parts than we think. But Jones's play distorts our ability to see that...
They would want to get back more than what they gave up in that braindead Jamal Adams deal. Just from an optics standpoint, they would need to start there to even begin trying to sell it to the fanbase.
Have any of you actually watched Wilson play this year and the end of last year?
He has not been very good
Wilson vs. the Packers was one the worst QB games that I have seen
He had a QB rating of 39, and against
Arizona a QB rating of 80.
I these games he made DJ look good
He is missing open receivers, his throws lack any zip.
He no longer has the escape ability and takes awful sacks
His stats do not properly reflect the extent of his poor play. Seattle was behind in many games and had to throw the ball.
If Seattle can't win with him what makes anyone think that the Giants with a worse surrounding cast can win with him.
If Wilson is so good why in the world would Seattle trade him?
Wilson is not the QB that he was
Archer makes some good points.
But is it mostly due to his injury - and just maybe needing a change of scenery as Wilson sees the walls starting to cave in on Seattle's run of contention?
Or, as we have seen with some athletes, they lose their mojo very quickly.
Wilson has looked a bit slower to me in terms of escapability. If true, that wouldn't bode well in a trade going forward.
I'd probably pass and give a new GM a chance to use their first to high picks.
Wilson can play another 7 to 10 years if he wants to. There are two reasons championship qb's quit- their arms are shot or they suffer a career ending injury. Neither is the case with Wilson. You guys want to have a chance at a winning season or do you want to see them flounder around for another couple of years? This is a team that blew the #2 and 6 pick in the draft. You want to put a bet on the fact they won't fuck up the two picks next year?
Have any of you actually watched Wilson play this year and the end of last year?
He has not been very good
Wilson vs. the Packers was one the worst QB games that I have seen
He had a QB rating of 39, and against
Arizona a QB rating of 80.
I these games he made DJ look good
He is missing open receivers, his throws lack any zip.
He no longer has the escape ability and takes awful sacks
His stats do not properly reflect the extent of his poor play. Seattle was behind in many games and had to throw the ball.
If Seattle can't win with him what makes anyone think that the Giants with a worse surrounding cast can win with him.
If Wilson is so good why in the world would Seattle trade him?
Wilson is not the QB that he was
Archer makes some good points.
But is it mostly due to his injury - and just maybe needing a change of scenery as Wilson sees the walls starting to cave in on Seattle's run of contention?
Or, as we have seen with some athletes, they lose their mojo very quickly.
Wilson has looked a bit slower to me in terms of escapability. If true, that wouldn't bode well in a trade going forward.
I'd probably pass and give a new GM a chance to use their first to high picks.
He has a broken finger on his throwing hand. That seems like a good explanation for his poor play. This is pretty ironic coming from somebody that was constantly making excuses for Daniel Jones, a totally inept QB who can't hold Wilson's Gatorade bottle.
and who has been independent for a while but still has a lot of broadcast contacts says the whole industry is joking (not joking) that Wilson is shopping for homes in the NY area. Take it for what it's worth.
DK Metcalf would instantly be the best player on our team and Wilson can barely function with him. I'm not saying Jones is better than Wilson, he's not. BUT, to think Wilson would make Barkley or our OLine better is laughable. Look at our rushing stats this year.
He is a terrific player. I'd give both our top picks if needed. They have a 50% bust rate and that seems a small price for a HOF QB.
Now, the money may be a barrier in year 1, but after that you are either paying a similar cap hit for Daniel Jones or grooming a young QB who may never pan out. You might even be playing a rookie QB in Wilson's year 2. No comparison.
Sure, he's 33, but four years is an eternity in the NFL. I agree with GoTerps, if you think you can get four quality years, age not an issue.
Just seems like a no-brainer for us, though I am not sure why he'd choose the NYG ...
Giants bring in the aging vet who can't do a thing behind an awful offensive line with no skill players. The Cowboys pick Randy White with one of the picks. Morton is booed into high heaven and blamed for all the problems on the team. A few years later he is the QB in the Superbowl for the Orange Crush Broncos. In that whole span of about 5 seasons the Giants were 21-51. Sometimes history repeats itself. Give Wilson 8 games behind this OL and this fanbase will turn on him in a second and we'll have another year of Mara doesn't care threads. The only difference will be they will have traded away the near future!
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
RE: RE: What's Wilson's record with Seattle this year?
Giants bring in the aging vet who can't do a thing behind an awful offensive line with no skill players. The Cowboys pick Randy White with one of the picks. Morton is booed into high heaven and blamed for all the problems on the team. A few years later he is the QB in the Superbowl for the Orange Crush Broncos. In that whole span of about 5 seasons the Giants were 21-51. Sometimes history repeats itself. Give Wilson 8 games behind this OL and this fanbase will turn on him in a second and we'll have another year of Mara doesn't care threads. The only difference will be they will have traded away the near future!
Get outta here.. Russ is ten times the player Morton was.
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
Did you just say "can't win"? All Wilson has ever done is win. He's 101-51-1 in his career. In 9 career seasons only 1 season EVER did his team have fewer than 10 wins in the regular season. This year they'll probably end up with a losing record yeah but he missed 3.5 games and they aren't nearly the Seahawks they once were under Carroll, not to mention the fact that Carroll may have lost the team at this point. I wouldn't suddenly jump to any conclusions about Wilson being incapable of winning.
Also I think many of guys have been brainwashed by Mara and Dave Gettleman and have convinced you it takes at least 4 years to build a team that can maybe possibly contend. Many teams have not only turned things around in a matter of 2-3 years (or even 1 season) but they can become super bowl contenders pretty quickly IF you get a GM who knows what he's doing.
I'd say if we can actually get the GM right this time, starting off with an already-championship-caliber QB could absolutely give us a leg up in speeding up that process to being a contender.
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
NFL teams always find ways to make salaries work. That's a non issue. Plus the cap is going up
If we could get him for a 1st, 3rd and DJ...that's a no Brainerd
"Mortgage the future". Bruh, we have Daniel Jones...we don't have a future
Seattle isn't that talented nor well coached. Pete is 70!! Game has passed him by, imo
And don't forget. Players play harder when they think they have a chance to win. That's why it always looks like giants players "don't look the same"...ex: Bradberry
Dudes aren't going 100 mph knowing they have no chance of being good.
Giants bring in the aging vet who can't do a thing behind an awful offensive line with no skill players. The Cowboys pick Randy White with one of the picks. Morton is booed into high heaven and blamed for all the problems on the team. A few years later he is the QB in the Superbowl for the Orange Crush Broncos. In that whole span of about 5 seasons the Giants were 21-51. Sometimes history repeats itself. Give Wilson 8 games behind this OL and this fanbase will turn on him in a second and we'll have another year of Mara doesn't care threads. The only difference will be they will have traded away the near future!
Get outta here.. Russ is ten times the player Morton was.
He's not exactly ripping it up behind Seattle's OL so what makes you think he'll do better behind ours? Morton finished either 2nd or 3rd in the MVP vote one year, I don't think that Russ has done better.
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
NFL teams always find ways to make salaries work. That's a non issue. Plus the cap is going up
If we could get him for a 1st, 3rd and DJ...that's a no Brainerd
"Mortgage the future". Bruh, we have Daniel Jones...we don't have a future
Seattle isn't that talented nor well coached. Pete is 70!! Game has passed him by, imo
And don't forget. Players play harder when they think they have a chance to win. That's why it always looks like giants players "don't look the same"...ex: Bradberry
Dudes aren't going 100 mph knowing they have no chance of being good.
Russ brings hope and talent
Wow. So much insight. I didn't know the Giants threw in the towel before the season started.
Go back and look at the stats in our wins. Daniel Jones is the only player on offense capable of making plays. When he doesn't, we literally do not score. We have absolute trash.
And where are you getting 1st and 3rd and DJ? Like a Carson Wentz type deal? Why would Seattle want DJ if he's so terrible? Do they not have film on him?
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
NFL teams always find ways to make salaries work. That's a non issue. Plus the cap is going up
If we could get him for a 1st, 3rd and DJ...that's a no Brainerd
"Mortgage the future". Bruh, we have Daniel Jones...we don't have a future
Seattle isn't that talented nor well coached. Pete is 70!! Game has passed him by, imo
And don't forget. Players play harder when they think they have a chance to win. That's why it always looks like giants players "don't look the same"...ex: Bradberry
Dudes aren't going 100 mph knowing they have no chance of being good.
Russ brings hope and talent
Wow. So much insight. I didn't know the Giants threw in the towel before the season started.
Go back and look at the stats in our wins. Daniel Jones is the only player on offense capable of making plays. When he doesn't, we literally do not score. We have absolute trash.
And where are you getting 1st and 3rd and DJ? Like a Carson Wentz type deal? Why would Seattle want DJ if he's so terrible? Do they not have film on him?
Have any of you actually watched Wilson play this year and the end of last year?
He has not been very good
Wilson vs. the Packers was one the worst QB games that I have seen
He had a QB rating of 39, and against
Arizona a QB rating of 80.
I these games he made DJ look good
He is missing open receivers, his throws lack any zip.
He no longer has the escape ability and takes awful sacks
His stats do not properly reflect the extent of his poor play. Seattle was behind in many games and had to throw the ball.
If Seattle can't win with him what makes anyone think that the Giants with a worse surrounding cast can win with him.
If Wilson is so good why in the world would Seattle trade him?
Wilson is not the QB that he was
Yup. I mean, if Seattle is willing to part with their "33 year old franchise QB", you'd better ask why.
Wow. So much insight. I didn't know the Giants threw in the towel before the season started.
Go back and look at the stats in our wins. Daniel Jones is the only player on offense capable of making plays. When he doesn't, we literally do not score. We have absolute trash.
And where are you getting 1st and 3rd and DJ? Like a Carson Wentz type deal? Why would Seattle want DJ if he's so terrible? Do they not have film on him?
I have so many questions.
Wait, so you think DJ is good??
I didn't say that. I think both DJ and Wilson are in similar situations. Both have dogshit OLines that can't pass protect or run block. Both have crap RBs who can't produce yards to get manageable 3rd downs. Both are being asked to carry a pathetic offense.
Do I think Wilson is better than Jones? Yes. Do I think Wilsons WRs are better than ours? Yes. Do I think Pete Carrol is a better coach than Joe Judge? Yes.
Daniel Jones is on a rookie contract and is replaceable. Russell Wilson comes here...we make a huge investment and we are probably in for more of the same.
or acquire the correct weapons. Doesn't make much sense to hand over two top 5 picks to be given the gift of his contract, while he's surrounded by a poor roster.
I think you need to look at Wilson through a different lens. Does he have the ability to take what we have and get the very best out it? And the answer is clearly yes. He will be able to optimize what we have. JAG Jones doesn't have that skill.
In other words, we may actually have more right parts than we think. But Jones's play distorts our ability to see that...
LOL - NYG has pretty much ZERO on offense; the parts they do have that are decent (Shepard, Golloday, Toney and Barkley) can't stay on the field. Engram? Glass hands and can't block for shit. Rudolph? Fork in his back. Slayton? He stinks. Booker? Brightwell? Collin Johnson? Ross? All mediocre on their best, day, terrible on their worst.
ANd that's not even including the OL; as bad as Seattle's is, NYG is even WORSE...
For the second time: if you only have to give up one of the
first round picks you don't even hesitate. Once you have the franchise QB in place you can make the rest of the pieces more functional, including the OL. Wilson's money is only an issue for 2022; unless you draft a QB in 2023 you're actually paying Daniel Jones more money to play QB than Wilson
RE: RE: RE: Giants have demonstrated no ability to build an OL
or acquire the correct weapons. Doesn't make much sense to hand over two top 5 picks to be given the gift of his contract, while he's surrounded by a poor roster.
I think you need to look at Wilson through a different lens. Does he have the ability to take what we have and get the very best out it? And the answer is clearly yes. He will be able to optimize what we have. JAG Jones doesn't have that skill.
In other words, we may actually have more right parts than we think. But Jones's play distorts our ability to see that...
LOL - NYG has pretty much ZERO on offense; the parts they do have that are decent (Shepard, Golloday, Toney and Barkley) can't stay on the field. Engram? Glass hands and can't block for shit. Rudolph? Fork in his back. Slayton? He stinks. Booker? Brightwell? Collin Johnson? Ross? All mediocre on their best, day, terrible on their worst.
ANd that's not even including the OL; as bad as Seattle's is, NYG is even WORSE...
If you get Wilson, give up a 1st and a 3rd, and hit on the two high picks (OL and DL), you'll have a largely clear cap by 2023 to make big FA moves. Follow that up with another good draft, assuming Gettleman isn't GM, and we would contend with Wilson as soon as 2023
RE: For the second time: if you only have to give up one of the
first round picks you don't even hesitate. Once you have the franchise QB in place you can make the rest of the pieces more functional, including the OL. Wilson's money is only an issue for 2022; unless you draft a QB in 2023 you're actually paying Daniel Jones more money to play QB than Wilson
.
It's going to take MUCH more than a first for Wilson. Probably at least two, and other picks as well. NYG are simply too baren of talent to give up that many picks.
RE: RE: For the second time: if you only have to give up one of the
first round picks you don't even hesitate. Once you have the franchise QB in place you can make the rest of the pieces more functional, including the OL. Wilson's money is only an issue for 2022; unless you draft a QB in 2023 you're actually paying Daniel Jones more money to play QB than Wilson
.
It's going to take MUCH more than a first for Wilson. Probably at least two, and other picks as well. NYG are simply too baren of talent to give up that many picks.
If he says trade me then all it will take is a 1st and 3rd
RE: RE: I don’t get why people are scared of Wilson..
Extend Williams (yes, extend him- will be costly but we have space in future years and we might as well keep him- he is scheme flexible). Could open up $14 mil
Redo Martinez deal and hope for his healthy return- opens up more 2022 space.
Trade Barkley- clears $7 mil for us..
Isn't this exactly the type of shit that got us in this hole in the first place?
Then top it off with Russell playing avg when he gets here, and everyone screaming for the GMs head. Better yet, he gets injured. Oh, and we still don't have an O-line.
RE: RE: RE: I don’t get why people are scared of Wilson..
Have you looked at his numbers? He threw 40 TD’s last year!!
Look at the weapons Wilson had last year, and look at the "weapons" he would have coming here.
It's like driving a Cadillac vs a Pinto
No weapons? They just signed Golladay and spent a 1st round pick on Toney. 2018 #2 pick on Barkley.
Wasn’t all that spending last spring to “win now”?
And how many games have they missed as a group? Actually, it would probably be easier to count how many games they’ve played; it’s certainly a much smaller number.
RE: RE: RE: For the second time: if you only have to give up one of the
first round picks you don't even hesitate. Once you have the franchise QB in place you can make the rest of the pieces more functional, including the OL. Wilson's money is only an issue for 2022; unless you draft a QB in 2023 you're actually paying Daniel Jones more money to play QB than Wilson
.
It's going to take MUCH more than a first for Wilson. Probably at least two, and other picks as well. NYG are simply too baren of talent to give up that many picks.
If he says trade me then all it will take is a 1st and 3rd
No. No it won’t. Just because he asks, they are under no obligation to trade hiim, and thus lose no leverage. It will take at least two firsts. Or 3-4 picks overall. Book it.
RE: RE: I don’t get why people are scared of Wilson..
The biggest problem with this team is QB. I understand he hasn't played great recently, and I believe it to be related to his finger injury.
But the dude is a champion, his teams have almost yearly been a playoff team. Sure, I'd rather have the NEXT great QB via the draft, but that's not happening.
But unless the Seahawks cut him, that's a ton of money to try to make room for under the cap.
I don't see how transactionally any deal, even if the Seahawks were to cut him, could make sense for next season with the Giants' cap being considered, and the very real possibility the Giants will already have $8.3M in dead money they are paying a QB who can't play.
Why? The Giants have a franchise LT, a couple of good playmakers on offense, and a good defense. Get a few more pieces on OL and he could transform the franchise. Only problem is the money doesn't work.
i agree, just have a hard time seeing it with draft pick and monetary cost
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
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he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
Why? Because he is not running for his life enough in Seattle...so he wants to play behind a line that will get him crushed with no chance to win a championship.
Anyone who believes these reports.. lol
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In comment 15486994 UConn4523 said:
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he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
Riddle me this...
The Broncos put up 28 points against the Chargers.
Their QBs threw for 1TD 1int and 150 yards and won
What will our QB have to do on Sunday to get to 28 points and win?
What would Russell Wilson do?
WHY NOT
Looking at the Giants I wonder how they would look at the Giants situation. Play for Judge? Freddie? The emerging OL? SB's pass protection? The weapons who seem to have a hard time suiting up with regularity?
Seems very appealing
Not ready yet
Cap should be better in 2023 to fit one in too
Much rather draft a cost controlled qb that pans out. But that’s a 50/50 call at best with first rd picks
Heck. , maybe 30/70
As long as we don't give up both 1st rd picks I would certainly consider it.
Include Barkley and Dexter Lawrence in Trade.
Good point.
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In comment 15487004 Thunderstruck27 said:
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In comment 15486994 UConn4523 said:
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he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
Riddle me this...
The Broncos put up 28 points against the Chargers.
Their QBs threw for 1TD 1int and 150 yards and won
What will our QB have to do on Sunday to get to 28 points and win?
What would Russell Wilson do?
Its a great riddle. Your reaction to my post seems to be predicated on some notion that I'm claiming 1. Wilson makes us great and 2. We can even afford him.
I happen to think Wilson with our current healthy Giants roster is a playoff team. If you don't that's cool, but I don't care about all the other scenarios you post. The Jets have scored 34 points against Cincy, what does that tell us? Nothing.
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In comment 15487008 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15487004 Thunderstruck27 said:
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In comment 15486994 UConn4523 said:
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he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
Riddle me this...
The Broncos put up 28 points against the Chargers.
Their QBs threw for 1TD 1int and 150 yards and won
What will our QB have to do on Sunday to get to 28 points and win?
What would Russell Wilson do?
Its a great riddle. Your reaction to my post seems to be predicated on some notion that I'm claiming 1. Wilson makes us great and 2. We can even afford him.
I happen to think Wilson with our current healthy Giants roster is a playoff team. If you don't that's cool, but I don't care about all the other scenarios you post. The Jets have scored 34 points against Cincy, what does that tell us? Nothing.
I agree, I think Wilson has a good 5 years left. Its really about the money and what we can build around him in the meantime.
Please give me Russell!
It is like the governor giving us a stay of execution.
Russell would make our WR's more engaged and better.
He make us relevant again.
Please! Please!
You can acquire Wilson and still improve the roster around him. There will be other picks, other cap space, and other trades.
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In comment 15487008 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15487004 Thunderstruck27 said:
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In comment 15486994 UConn4523 said:
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he'd be over what we've been pumping out at QB for the last 6/7 years. I think we are a playoff team with him.
Who is he going to throw the ball to? Who is going to run it? Behind what OLine? If you really think QB is the main problem with this team, I question your football acumen.
Teams go out and win with backups all the time. Our team can't score with our starter or backups. The problem is much bigger than QB.
Did it ever occur to you that our starters and backups aren't as good as the other starters and backups? I also didn't say Russell Wilson is the one and only solution. I simply said I think we are a playoff team with him.
Riddle me this...
The Broncos put up 28 points against the Chargers.
Their QBs threw for 1TD 1int and 150 yards and won
What will our QB have to do on Sunday to get to 28 points and win?
What would Russell Wilson do?
Its a great riddle. Your reaction to my post seems to be predicated on some notion that I'm claiming 1. Wilson makes us great and 2. We can even afford him.
I happen to think Wilson with our current healthy Giants roster is a playoff team. If you don't that's cool, but I don't care about all the other scenarios you post. The Jets have scored 34 points against Cincy, what does that tell us? Nothing.
I don't want you to think I'm attacking you. I'm just trying to prove an overall point. We play the Chargers this week and they just got beat with bad QB play
In the 2 games this year we came close to scoring 30 points this year, Daniel Jones was lights out throwing and running the ball and we still lost to the Skins.
My point is...this offense is dreadful to the point that if Wilson comes here he will have to play perfect.
It's possible. But unlikely considering the turds he would be surrounded with
They would have to extend him and/or convert to more guaranteed money.
You can acquire Wilson and still improve the roster around him. There will be other picks, other cap space, and other trades.
While true, that doesn't change the cap situation which will hamstring all the other things you need to do to rebuild the team. Unless you think we'll hit on every draft pick and they are all OL, we're going to need a free agent or two other than Wilson to field a competent team.
I say, start all over with a cheaper vet while you figure out the answer at QB.
Cut Riley and Rudolph
Extend Williams (yes, extend him- will be costly but we have space in future years and we might as well keep him- he is scheme flexible). Could open up $14 mil
Redo Martinez deal and hope for his healthy return- opens up more 2022 space.
Trade Barkley- clears $7 mil for us..
IE he will be essentially throwing in the towel on his career.
Still a checkout out Russ would be an improvement
My feelings as well.
He has not played well this year and the end of last year
Wilson should go to a good team that can protect him and run the ball
When under pressure Wilson is below average
Wilson was great with a strong running game , play action and deep passing
He also needs great receivers as he tends to put a lot of contested balls
That would leave the Giants out
Wilson is 33 and in decline
He has two years left on his contract ( $24m and $27m )
If you extend him you will be resigning a 35 year old qb in decline
By trading the 3 DPs the Giants would not be able to improve the team
The Giants would be insane to trade for Wilson that would go down as one the worst trades in Giants history
Two top 10 picks. At least. For an expensive QB whose best days are behind him.
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what do we have to lose? We've been setting picks and cap on fire left and right anyway.
Two top 10 picks. At least. For an expensive QB whose best days are behind him.
he has a point, what have all our top 10 picks done for us for the last 4/5 years?
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In comment 15487063 UConn4523 said:
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what do we have to lose? We've been setting picks and cap on fire left and right anyway.
Two top 10 picks. At least. For an expensive QB whose best days are behind him.
he has a point, what have all our top 10 picks done for us for the last 4/5 years?
I’m assuming they will have a new GM in place with a better eye for talent.
Let’s do this!
27 million - 2023- 33 years old
2024-FA
The signing bonus is gone with the trade and Seattle eats a ton of dead money.
I would take him for 2 years in a heartbeat.
Well, it's virtually guaranteed Rodgers will be on auction too and rumors are Broncos are likely to go after him hard. Panthers are another team possibly in QB market.
You never when that is going to creep up on anyone. And right now Wilson's YTD QBT is somewhat concerning.
A premiere OT and Edge will do more to improve the team than Wilson.
27 million - 2023- 33 years old
2024-FA
The signing bonus is gone with the trade and Seattle eats a ton of dead money.
I would take him for 2 years in a heartbeat.
He's going to want, and any team acquiring him is going to want some more term locked in along with a year or two flexibility for cut for cap purposes.
I don't think even the Maras and Gettleman are that stupid.
At the very least, they wouldn't offer up any first round picks for him.
and it comes with a new GM.
gives them a shot at reaching fassel level competitiveness for 3-5 years, which is a far cry from today's situ.
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what do we have to lose? We've been setting picks and cap on fire left and right anyway.
Two top 10 picks. At least. For an expensive QB whose best days are behind him.
I don't know what the compensation would be but I'd probably stop at 2 firsts and one of them would be a future first, not one of the top picks.
If the asking price is low, maybe, but it won't be.
And if the Giants do pull the trigger, make the trade, and we still suck, the same posters who are creaming their jeans over the trade will be blasting the Giants for not improving the team, ignoring that the trade will handicap the ability to improve.
Other possible cuts are Nick Gates to save $2.5M and Blake Martinez to save $8.5M but I'm not sure who their injured status plays into that.
Other possible cuts are Nick Gates to save $2.5M and Blake Martinez to save $8.5M but I'm not sure who their injured status plays into that.
Bradberry and Shep create a HUGE dead cap hit...
Whether or not we play ball? He's having a rough year but a lot of that is the result of playing through an injury he rushed back from. I believe he's still a Top 5 QB and if a Top 5 QB is open to your franchise and you need a QB, you pick up the phone.
About 500 he was hurt for a good chunk of time.
Obviously he would need to show this last month that his hand is fine and he can still play at a high level, and the compensation would need to be reasonable, but first round picks have become fairly disposable over the last 4 years with the Giants.
I just feel we need both our first round picks to address the trenches on both O-line and Pass Rusher.
Other possible cuts are Nick Gates to save $2.5M and Blake Martinez to save $8.5M but I'm not sure who their injured status plays into that.
And there's the issue. If you want to watch Wilson run around all game and still lose, we can fit him under the cap. But to be competitive, we're going to need Wilson and some other players, especially on the OL. And since we're giving up at least some premium picks in the trade, we'll need to have money to sign some vets, even if we're smart about it. Again, start over. If you don't want to pick up Jones option, find a cheap vet to tide us over. If we pick the right one, we can be competitive.
To me there's little difference in being capped out and losing 10 games vs having cap space and losing 10 games. Both suck. Both don't guarantee a fucking thing. Why not go for 10 wins.
I am not even sure i'd do it, Wilson may cost too much, but if you can steal him at a somewhat palatable cost, you have to do it.
A full organizational reset with a new GM/HC and Wilson could be just what this team needs. Add in the fact that Mara paid a lot of money for “win now” Golladay & Adoree Jackson. Signed Rudolph too.
Cap will be challenging, but it makes sense.
at the very least we can be sure he'd continue to work incredibly hard at his craft and provide leadership missing from the HC on down. I would take Russ all day. He'd legitimately be a top 2 or 3 QB in franchise history starting week 1 2022.
24 million - 2022- 33 years old (Not 32)
27 million - 2023- 34 years old (Not 33) and will turn 35 before the season is over
2024-FA
Might seem minor but IMHO most franchise QBs start their decline around 35. It's hard to notice as they are still better than most of their competition due to experience and talent but that's when I notice a decline. I could see it in Eli, Ben, Brees, and even Brady albeit Brady's decline is pretty damn slow.
For the record, as far as the money is concerned, Giants could make it work. Right now it looks like they have no available money next year but the year after they are loaded. This means there is a lot they can do to move money around to make room. OFC they would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
That being said, I'm of the opinion that the team will be blown up to start the rebuild in the off-season. They will need their draft picks to rebuild. Due to Wilson's age, his best shot is to go to a contender. The only team that should want Wilson is a contender that just needs that QB to get them over that hump.
I'd love to see Wilson in blue but it's not the smart play for him or the Giants.
Giants' should press on with some kind of a game manager QB until they can at least stabilize the team. Lower the number of injuries, avoid players with an injury history in FA and the draft, and solidify the trenches. Then go after the QB they want/need. If that QB is a rookie we can at least properly evaluate him without caveats.
I just feel we need both our first round picks to address the trenches on both O-line and Pass Rusher.
Not even close to what it would cost. I think a lot depends on how the Seahawks value Jones but the Giants would be looking at one of the 2022 1s without any sort of qualifiers. At a minimum. I imagine Seattle would open asking for both.
He has not been very good
Wilson vs. the Packers was one the worst QB games that I have seen
He had a QB rating of 39, and against
Arizona a QB rating of 80.
I these games he made DJ look good
He is missing open receivers, his throws lack any zip.
He no longer has the escape ability and takes awful sacks
His stats do not properly reflect the extent of his poor play. Seattle was behind in many games and had to throw the ball.
If Seattle can't win with him what makes anyone think that the Giants with a worse surrounding cast can win with him.
If Wilson is so good why in the world would Seattle trade him?
Wilson is not the QB that he was
I think you need to look at Wilson through a different lens. Does he have the ability to take what we have and get the very best out it? And the answer is clearly yes. He will be able to optimize what we have. JAG Jones doesn't have that skill.
In other words, we may actually have more right parts than we think. But Jones's play distorts our ability to see that...
He has not been very good
Wilson vs. the Packers was one the worst QB games that I have seen
He had a QB rating of 39, and against
Arizona a QB rating of 80.
I these games he made DJ look good
He is missing open receivers, his throws lack any zip.
He no longer has the escape ability and takes awful sacks
His stats do not properly reflect the extent of his poor play. Seattle was behind in many games and had to throw the ball.
If Seattle can't win with him what makes anyone think that the Giants with a worse surrounding cast can win with him.
If Wilson is so good why in the world would Seattle trade him?
Wilson is not the QB that he was
Archer makes some good points.
But is it mostly due to his injury - and just maybe needing a change of scenery as Wilson sees the walls starting to cave in on Seattle's run of contention?
Or, as we have seen with some athletes, they lose their mojo very quickly.
Wilson has looked a bit slower to me in terms of escapability. If true, that wouldn't bode well in a trade going forward.
I'd probably pass and give a new GM a chance to use their first to high picks.
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Have any of you actually watched Wilson play this year and the end of last year?
He has not been very good
Wilson vs. the Packers was one the worst QB games that I have seen
He had a QB rating of 39, and against
Arizona a QB rating of 80.
I these games he made DJ look good
He is missing open receivers, his throws lack any zip.
He no longer has the escape ability and takes awful sacks
His stats do not properly reflect the extent of his poor play. Seattle was behind in many games and had to throw the ball.
If Seattle can't win with him what makes anyone think that the Giants with a worse surrounding cast can win with him.
If Wilson is so good why in the world would Seattle trade him?
Wilson is not the QB that he was
Archer makes some good points.
But is it mostly due to his injury - and just maybe needing a change of scenery as Wilson sees the walls starting to cave in on Seattle's run of contention?
Or, as we have seen with some athletes, they lose their mojo very quickly.
Wilson has looked a bit slower to me in terms of escapability. If true, that wouldn't bode well in a trade going forward.
I'd probably pass and give a new GM a chance to use their first to high picks.
He has a broken finger on his throwing hand. That seems like a good explanation for his poor play. This is pretty ironic coming from somebody that was constantly making excuses for Daniel Jones, a totally inept QB who can't hold Wilson's Gatorade bottle.
Maybe there will be a discount owing to his age and the injury. The Giants have to look into it.
Now, the money may be a barrier in year 1, but after that you are either paying a similar cap hit for Daniel Jones or grooming a young QB who may never pan out. You might even be playing a rookie QB in Wilson's year 2. No comparison.
Sure, he's 33, but four years is an eternity in the NFL. I agree with GoTerps, if you think you can get four quality years, age not an issue.
Just seems like a no-brainer for us, though I am not sure why he'd choose the NYG ...
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
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Anyone? Bueller?
About 500 he was hurt for a good chunk of time.
3-6
Get outta here.. Russ is ten times the player Morton was.
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I'm amazed at all the people saying "no"
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
Did you just say "can't win"? All Wilson has ever done is win. He's 101-51-1 in his career. In 9 career seasons only 1 season EVER did his team have fewer than 10 wins in the regular season. This year they'll probably end up with a losing record yeah but he missed 3.5 games and they aren't nearly the Seahawks they once were under Carroll, not to mention the fact that Carroll may have lost the team at this point. I wouldn't suddenly jump to any conclusions about Wilson being incapable of winning.
Also I think many of guys have been brainwashed by Mara and Dave Gettleman and have convinced you it takes at least 4 years to build a team that can maybe possibly contend. Many teams have not only turned things around in a matter of 2-3 years (or even 1 season) but they can become super bowl contenders pretty quickly IF you get a GM who knows what he's doing.
I'd say if we can actually get the GM right this time, starting off with an already-championship-caliber QB could absolutely give us a leg up in speeding up that process to being a contender.
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I'm amazed at all the people saying "no"
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
NFL teams always find ways to make salaries work. That's a non issue. Plus the cap is going up
If we could get him for a 1st, 3rd and DJ...that's a no Brainerd
"Mortgage the future". Bruh, we have Daniel Jones...we don't have a future
Seattle isn't that talented nor well coached. Pete is 70!! Game has passed him by, imo
And don't forget. Players play harder when they think they have a chance to win. That's why it always looks like giants players "don't look the same"...ex: Bradberry
Dudes aren't going 100 mph knowing they have no chance of being good.
Russ brings hope and talent
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Giants bring in the aging vet who can't do a thing behind an awful offensive line with no skill players. The Cowboys pick Randy White with one of the picks. Morton is booed into high heaven and blamed for all the problems on the team. A few years later he is the QB in the Superbowl for the Orange Crush Broncos. In that whole span of about 5 seasons the Giants were 21-51. Sometimes history repeats itself. Give Wilson 8 games behind this OL and this fanbase will turn on him in a second and we'll have another year of Mara doesn't care threads. The only difference will be they will have traded away the near future!
Get outta here.. Russ is ten times the player Morton was.
He's not exactly ripping it up behind Seattle's OL so what makes you think he'll do better behind ours? Morton finished either 2nd or 3rd in the MVP vote one year, I don't think that Russ has done better.
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In comment 15487254 riceneggs said:
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I'm amazed at all the people saying "no"
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
NFL teams always find ways to make salaries work. That's a non issue. Plus the cap is going up
If we could get him for a 1st, 3rd and DJ...that's a no Brainerd
"Mortgage the future". Bruh, we have Daniel Jones...we don't have a future
Seattle isn't that talented nor well coached. Pete is 70!! Game has passed him by, imo
And don't forget. Players play harder when they think they have a chance to win. That's why it always looks like giants players "don't look the same"...ex: Bradberry
Dudes aren't going 100 mph knowing they have no chance of being good.
Russ brings hope and talent
Wow. So much insight. I didn't know the Giants threw in the towel before the season started.
Go back and look at the stats in our wins. Daniel Jones is the only player on offense capable of making plays. When he doesn't, we literally do not score. We have absolute trash.
And where are you getting 1st and 3rd and DJ? Like a Carson Wentz type deal? Why would Seattle want DJ if he's so terrible? Do they not have film on him?
I have so many questions.
"Mortgage the future". Bruh, we have Daniel Jones...we don't have a future
I cannot take anyone who says "bruh" seriously...
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"Mortgage the future". Bruh, we have Daniel Jones...we don't have a future
I cannot take anyone who says "bruh" seriously...
Bruh
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In comment 15487256 Thunderstruck27 said:
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In comment 15487254 riceneggs said:
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I'm amazed at all the people saying "no"
So yall just wanna win 4-6 games a year for the next 10 years???
It's not like it's Madden. We would have to make room under the salary cap and mortgage the future with our draft picks. All for a QB who can't win on a better coached and more talented team.
NFL teams always find ways to make salaries work. That's a non issue. Plus the cap is going up
If we could get him for a 1st, 3rd and DJ...that's a no Brainerd
"Mortgage the future". Bruh, we have Daniel Jones...we don't have a future
Seattle isn't that talented nor well coached. Pete is 70!! Game has passed him by, imo
And don't forget. Players play harder when they think they have a chance to win. That's why it always looks like giants players "don't look the same"...ex: Bradberry
Dudes aren't going 100 mph knowing they have no chance of being good.
Russ brings hope and talent
Wow. So much insight. I didn't know the Giants threw in the towel before the season started.
Go back and look at the stats in our wins. Daniel Jones is the only player on offense capable of making plays. When he doesn't, we literally do not score. We have absolute trash.
And where are you getting 1st and 3rd and DJ? Like a Carson Wentz type deal? Why would Seattle want DJ if he's so terrible? Do they not have film on him?
I have so many questions.
Wait, so you think DJ is good??
He has not been very good
Wilson vs. the Packers was one the worst QB games that I have seen
He had a QB rating of 39, and against
Arizona a QB rating of 80.
I these games he made DJ look good
He is missing open receivers, his throws lack any zip.
He no longer has the escape ability and takes awful sacks
His stats do not properly reflect the extent of his poor play. Seattle was behind in many games and had to throw the ball.
If Seattle can't win with him what makes anyone think that the Giants with a worse surrounding cast can win with him.
If Wilson is so good why in the world would Seattle trade him?
Wilson is not the QB that he was
Yup. I mean, if Seattle is willing to part with their "33 year old franchise QB", you'd better ask why.
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Wow. So much insight. I didn't know the Giants threw in the towel before the season started.
Go back and look at the stats in our wins. Daniel Jones is the only player on offense capable of making plays. When he doesn't, we literally do not score. We have absolute trash.
And where are you getting 1st and 3rd and DJ? Like a Carson Wentz type deal? Why would Seattle want DJ if he's so terrible? Do they not have film on him?
I have so many questions.
Wait, so you think DJ is good??
I didn't say that. I think both DJ and Wilson are in similar situations. Both have dogshit OLines that can't pass protect or run block. Both have crap RBs who can't produce yards to get manageable 3rd downs. Both are being asked to carry a pathetic offense.
Do I think Wilson is better than Jones? Yes. Do I think Wilsons WRs are better than ours? Yes. Do I think Pete Carrol is a better coach than Joe Judge? Yes.
Daniel Jones is on a rookie contract and is replaceable. Russell Wilson comes here...we make a huge investment and we are probably in for more of the same.
This team ain't that!
Look at the weapons Wilson had last year, and look at the "weapons" he would have coming here.
It's like driving a Cadillac vs a Pinto
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or acquire the correct weapons. Doesn't make much sense to hand over two top 5 picks to be given the gift of his contract, while he's surrounded by a poor roster.
I think you need to look at Wilson through a different lens. Does he have the ability to take what we have and get the very best out it? And the answer is clearly yes. He will be able to optimize what we have. JAG Jones doesn't have that skill.
In other words, we may actually have more right parts than we think. But Jones's play distorts our ability to see that...
LOL - NYG has pretty much ZERO on offense; the parts they do have that are decent (Shepard, Golloday, Toney and Barkley) can't stay on the field. Engram? Glass hands and can't block for shit. Rudolph? Fork in his back. Slayton? He stinks. Booker? Brightwell? Collin Johnson? Ross? All mediocre on their best, day, terrible on their worst.
ANd that's not even including the OL; as bad as Seattle's is, NYG is even WORSE...
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In comment 15487189 JonC said:
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or acquire the correct weapons. Doesn't make much sense to hand over two top 5 picks to be given the gift of his contract, while he's surrounded by a poor roster.
I think you need to look at Wilson through a different lens. Does he have the ability to take what we have and get the very best out it? And the answer is clearly yes. He will be able to optimize what we have. JAG Jones doesn't have that skill.
In other words, we may actually have more right parts than we think. But Jones's play distorts our ability to see that...
LOL - NYG has pretty much ZERO on offense; the parts they do have that are decent (Shepard, Golloday, Toney and Barkley) can't stay on the field. Engram? Glass hands and can't block for shit. Rudolph? Fork in his back. Slayton? He stinks. Booker? Brightwell? Collin Johnson? Ross? All mediocre on their best, day, terrible on their worst.
ANd that's not even including the OL; as bad as Seattle's is, NYG is even WORSE...
If you get Wilson, give up a 1st and a 3rd, and hit on the two high picks (OL and DL), you'll have a largely clear cap by 2023 to make big FA moves. Follow that up with another good draft, assuming Gettleman isn't GM, and we would contend with Wilson as soon as 2023
It's going to take MUCH more than a first for Wilson. Probably at least two, and other picks as well. NYG are simply too baren of talent to give up that many picks.
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first round picks you don't even hesitate. Once you have the franchise QB in place you can make the rest of the pieces more functional, including the OL. Wilson's money is only an issue for 2022; unless you draft a QB in 2023 you're actually paying Daniel Jones more money to play QB than Wilson
.
It's going to take MUCH more than a first for Wilson. Probably at least two, and other picks as well. NYG are simply too baren of talent to give up that many picks.
If he says trade me then all it will take is a 1st and 3rd
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Have you looked at his numbers? He threw 40 TD’s last year!!
Look at the weapons Wilson had last year, and look at the "weapons" he would have coming here.
It's like driving a Cadillac vs a Pinto
No weapons? They just signed Golladay and spent a 1st round pick on Toney. 2018 #2 pick on Barkley.
Wasn’t all that spending last spring to “win now”?
Cut Riley and Rudolph
Extend Williams (yes, extend him- will be costly but we have space in future years and we might as well keep him- he is scheme flexible). Could open up $14 mil
Redo Martinez deal and hope for his healthy return- opens up more 2022 space.
Trade Barkley- clears $7 mil for us..
Then top it off with Russell playing avg when he gets here, and everyone screaming for the GMs head. Better yet, he gets injured. Oh, and we still don't have an O-line.
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In comment 15487166 Sean said:
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Have you looked at his numbers? He threw 40 TD’s last year!!
Look at the weapons Wilson had last year, and look at the "weapons" he would have coming here.
It's like driving a Cadillac vs a Pinto
No weapons? They just signed Golladay and spent a 1st round pick on Toney. 2018 #2 pick on Barkley.
Wasn’t all that spending last spring to “win now”?
And how many games have they missed as a group? Actually, it would probably be easier to count how many games they’ve played; it’s certainly a much smaller number.
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In comment 15487482 dpinzow said:
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first round picks you don't even hesitate. Once you have the franchise QB in place you can make the rest of the pieces more functional, including the OL. Wilson's money is only an issue for 2022; unless you draft a QB in 2023 you're actually paying Daniel Jones more money to play QB than Wilson
.
It's going to take MUCH more than a first for Wilson. Probably at least two, and other picks as well. NYG are simply too baren of talent to give up that many picks.
If he says trade me then all it will take is a 1st and 3rd
No. No it won’t. Just because he asks, they are under no obligation to trade hiim, and thus lose no leverage. It will take at least two firsts. Or 3-4 picks overall. Book it.
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Have you looked at his numbers? He threw 40 TD’s last year!!
Look at the weapons Wilson had last year, and look at the "weapons" he would have coming here.
It's like driving a Cadillac vs a Pinto
Daniel Jones has Golladay and doesn't throw to him. Do you not see this? Jones is a team wrecker.
Not sure if it makes sense.
You dont think wilson makes us a playoff team as we are currently constructed? Then youre just being emotional and irrational.
Rhe giants have talent. With wilson they are a wildcard team.
Have a good draft in april landing 2 impact players and they could be a contender in nfc