I don't watch much college football so please forgive me, but I remember Fromm being one of the country's top QBs at Georgia. What happened to him that he couldn't do any better than the Bills practice squad? And I understand that he has been getting a crash course in the playbook, but can he be worse than Mike Glennon, who is utterly painful to watch?
Glennon makes Davis Webb look like Tom Brady when it comes to accuracy.
Just play Fromm. This is similar to McAdoo jumping through hoops to get another QB on the field instead of Eli, and then going with Geno instead of Webb.
Find out what Fromm can do. The W/L outcome is unlikely to be different either way, but the player evaluation might be valuable.
There's a QB on Tampa's roster that somehow got skipped over by the NFL's brightest player evaluators for 5+ rounds.
There's no certainty in a player's roster status.
isn't the book on fromm that he's smart, accurate, and knows where to go with the football, but doesn't have a great arm?
so basically the opposite of glennon?
Quote:
At this point, the season is lost so for entertainment purposes I don't mind seeing Fromm. He actually good be worse then Glennon. If Fromm was any good, he wouldn't be a practice squad level qb.
There's a QB on Tampa's roster that somehow got skipped over by the NFL's brightest player evaluators for 5+ rounds.
There's no certainty in a player's roster status.
Yeah but Belichek didn't put him on the practice squad and he was good enough to be an active roster back up qb.
Quote:
In comment 15495354 penkap75 said:
Quote:
At this point, the season is lost so for entertainment purposes I don't mind seeing Fromm. He actually good be worse then Glennon. If Fromm was any good, he wouldn't be a practice squad level qb.
There's a QB on Tampa's roster that somehow got skipped over by the NFL's brightest player evaluators for 5+ rounds.
There's no certainty in a player's roster status.
Yeah but Belichek didn't put him on the practice squad and he was good enough to be an active roster back up qb.
Tyler Heinicke was cut like 6 different times and out of the league. He’s playing pretty damn well for a guy that nobody thought could play.
Buffalo had an entrenched starter, and understandably wanted a backup with actual game experience. They thought enough of Fromm to use up a PS spot for him. Maybe you're right, maybe he stinks, but the fact that he was a PS player doesn't prove anything. Ask Kurt Warner.
Quote:
In comment 15495358 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15495354 penkap75 said:
Quote:
At this point, the season is lost so for entertainment purposes I don't mind seeing Fromm. He actually good be worse then Glennon. If Fromm was any good, he wouldn't be a practice squad level qb.
There's a QB on Tampa's roster that somehow got skipped over by the NFL's brightest player evaluators for 5+ rounds.
There's no certainty in a player's roster status.
Yeah but Belichek didn't put him on the practice squad and he was good enough to be an active roster back up qb.
Tyler Heinicke was cut like 6 different times and out of the league. He’s playing pretty damn well for a guy that nobody thought could play.
Exactly. Once upon a time there were mock drafts that had Fromm as a #2 overall pick. So it's not like he wasn't highly thought of at one point.
Glennon gives us less than nothing. And even if Fromm stinks it up, as a young QB, maybe he gets his lumps and improves.
Maybe, but Danny Kanell was better than Glennon.
But does that matter?
Glennon is a journeyman on a one-year contract and will be gone after this season. Fromm could potentially be a base-level backup (or better) QB for us. Chances are, he won't be. Most likely, he'll be worse than Glennon.
Those are guesses right now until he's on the field. And to the extent that Glennon is better, we're still very likely to lose with Glennon at the helm, so we can at least gain by learning if we give Fromm some run.
I posted this in another thread, but Fromm being on a PS is better than where Heinicke was when WFT signed him.
Heinicke's last game for the Panthers was 12/23/18, and they released him on 8/30/19, the final cut day. He went to the XFL and didn't get a single snap before they shut down in April 2020. He was signed to the WFT PS on 12/8/20, the active roster on 12/19/20 and came into a game on 12/27/20. He would go on to start their playoff game, and because of Fitz' injury has started all this year. He missed two full years of competitive snaps, and was completely out of football between 4/20 and 12/20.
Odds are Fromm isn't going to do much, but maybe he's a lotto ticket that we can cash like TH turned into for WFT. L
You beat me to it.
Danny Wuerffel was a Heisman Trophy winning QB and a world beater at FL St. because he was an accurate passer and his WRs were always open.
But Wuerffel did not have an NFL arm, so he ended up being a backup for 4 different teams and was out of the NFL ae 28.
That would seem to be a pretty good comp for Fromm.
Just play Fromm. This is similar to McAdoo jumping through hoops to get another QB on the field instead of Eli, and then going with Geno instead of Webb.
Find out what Fromm can do. The W/L outcome is unlikely to be different either way, but the player evaluation might be valuable.
I agree, find out what Fromm's potential is. Can he be a strong backup? And all the other young guys too. Ojulari, Roche and Smith should be the only OLBs to see the field the next four weeks. Peart should be playing full-time. It's a long shot, but if Isaiah Wilson, who has had a 2.5-month "training camp" now, is close to ready, get him active for a game or two and get him some reps. Get Crossen (anyone wonder what he would look like at free safety with his speed) on the field with the defense. Tape Shelton to the bench.
To be fair, McAdoo went with Smith (for the whole game after Eli benched himself) because it was an away game. The plan was to use Webb in the second half the next week at home (after Manning played the first half).
The flaw in McAdoo's plan was he should have waited till the next week to make the announcement they were going to start getting Webb playing time in the second half of the remaining games. Doing it a week earlier, and using Smith, helped turn it into a disaster. McAdoo was actually trying to do exactly what was best for the organization - which is exactly what Judge should do now - see if Webb had an NFL future. Ben never got the opportunity.
But does that matter?
Glennon is a journeyman on a one-year contract and will be gone after this season. Fromm could potentially be a base-level backup (or better) QB for us. Chances are, he won't be. Most likely, he'll be worse than Glennon.
Those are guesses right now until he's on the field. And to the extent that Glennon is better, we're still very likely to lose with Glennon at the helm, so we can at least gain by learning if we give Fromm some run.
The only way I can see the Giants winning with Glennon is if the defense forces 5 or 6 turnovers in one game and scores on 4 of them.
Doesn't even have to project to be a likely starter, only a guy that has value of being on a future roster.
Intelligence is running thin though these days within this franchise.
Again, I'd rather have Lauletta.
Again, I'd rather have Lauletta.
If we caught "lightning in a bottle" with Fromm, he'd be showing that lightning in practice. Its pretty obvious he's not, or he would have started last week when Glennon didn't get to practice much and still started.
If we caught "lightning in a bottle" with Fromm, he'd be showing that lightning in practice. Its pretty obvious he's not, or he would have started last week when Glennon didn't get to practice much and still started.
The problem is, they only care about winning this weekend, every weekend. Even if that's an insurmountable task. Winning long-term is also a goal they could consider.
Sometimes, it could benefit the team to look toward the future in a lost season and determine if some of the youth on the roster might be part of next year's team. We actually have the luxury of having an extended preseason by way of giving run to young players right now. But we'll chase (literally) meaningless wins instead.
I no longer care about winning a single game. I want to see Fromm play a few games.
Quote:
At this point, the season is lost so for entertainment purposes I don't mind seeing Fromm. He actually good be worse then Glennon. If Fromm was any good, he wouldn't be a practice squad level qb.
Buffalo had an entrenched starter, and understandably wanted a backup with actual game experience. They thought enough of Fromm to use up a PS spot for him. Maybe you're right, maybe he stinks, but the fact that he was a PS player doesn't prove anything. Ask Kurt Warner.
The point is, who cares if he screws up. At least they will see him in live action instead of just wearing a red jersey, and maybe get an idea of what he can or can't be. That might help you improve the team for next year, even if he is a career backup. Playing Glennon does not do anything for the 2022 team. One of Fromm's attributes is supposed to be good, fast decision making. You can't replicate that in practice. You'd love to have a guy with a cannon who can do that. But they are very rare. People questioned P. Manning's arm strength when he came out. They definitely questioned Brady's. There have been a lot of QBs who have done well with average arms but great smarts.
Here is what Montana, who also wasn't know for a strong arm coming out of ND or while in the NFL, says about being a successful NFL QB:
"If you really think about it, how many balls are thrown over 45 yards? It's a lot about timing, reading, making the right reads, throwing the ball on time," Montana added. "Usually, you don't have to have a cannon."
And this is what a scout said about Montana before the draft: "Doesn’t have great tools, but could eventually start."
Giants scout Whitey Walsh tried hard to get the team to draft Brady. But even the only guy in their draft room pushing for Brady had doubts.
“I watched Brady, and he was actually pretty good. He was very careful with his passes, very accurate, no interceptions. I wondered if his arm would be strong enough. If you saw him — and he was listed that day at 6-foot-5, 195 pounds — he didn’t look good. He looked kind of emaciated, with no muscle definition.”
I no longer care about winning a single game. I want to see Fromm play a few games.
We'll see him as soon as Glennon gets injured.
My mistake. It could have been worse though. I could have claimed Tiki went to VA Tech, in which case you probably would have called me something other than "duuuuude".
Quote:
Non NFL arm, good college player, marginal NFL backup.
You beat me to it.
Danny Wuerffel was a Heisman Trophy winning QB and a world beater at FL St. because he was an accurate passer and his WRs were always open.
But Wuerffel did not have an NFL arm, so he ended up being a backup for 4 different teams and was out of the NFL ae 28.
That would seem to be a pretty good comp for Fromm.
Not really a good comp. Wuerffel didn't have to make many reads at Florida because, just like many of the Ohio St. QBs, his receivers were always running wide open. It was an offense that threw the ball all over the place. My god, Chris Doering was a star at Florida and got drafted. Nine wide receivers Wuerffel played with got drafted, including three in the first round and one at the start of the second and one in the third. Four of Fromm's wide receivers got, the highest at the end of the second round. The next one at the end of the 4th round.
Georgia's offense was also hardly air Spurrier. Yet Fromm completed a higher percent of passes and threw an average of 6 INTs a year compared to Wuerffel's 10. And the case can be made that Fromm had to face a deeper, stronger SEC, with more good DBs than Weurffell. Vanderbilt, Ole Miss and Kentucky are no longer doormats that the UF second and third teams could beat.
We don't know what Fromm is or what he can be. But it sure makes sense to play him in real action the next four weeks to get an idea. In three preseason games this year (there were none last year) he was 21-36 for 172 yards playing mostly with third stringers. Trubinsky was 21-30 with the first and second team. Glennon was 22-37 for 253 playing mostly with starters.
If we caught "lightning in a bottle" with Fromm, he'd be showing that lightning in practice. Its pretty obvious he's not, or he would have started last week when Glennon didn't get to practice much and still started.
If they only care about winning.
Explain Nate Solder playing, Logan Ryan still out there, and Ebner on this team then.
Quote:
They do not care about trying guys out to see what they have or because they're bored with Glennon. They are only concerned with playing the best players. It is reasonable to assume that some combo of not being here long enough and not showing up better than Glennon in practice keeps Fromm from playing. He's not ready or he's not good enough and its probably both.
If we caught "lightning in a bottle" with Fromm, he'd be showing that lightning in practice. Its pretty obvious he's not, or he would have started last week when Glennon didn't get to practice much and still started.
If they only care about winning.
Explain Nate Solder playing, Logan Ryan still out there, and Ebner on this team then.
They think veterans give them a better chance to win.
And one of those three guys is unlikely to ever play football again.
Just look at the names listed on this thread already. There are realistic scenarios where none of them ever get to show what they can do. Even Brady. There's a universe where he's a career backup with a handful of spot starts.
Not saying Fromm is that guy. Most of these guys aren't even Heineke let alone Brady. But it's not impossible. He should get a few starts once he's up to speed.
At Georgia, Fromm was a game manager and not a play-maker. He is not a quarterback who can create plays on his own like an Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, Lamar Jackson or Deshaun Watson. Fromm is a good distributor of the football who generally has good ball security and makes good decisions.
While Fromm does not have arm strength or play-making ability with his feet, he is an accurate passer. He places his ball well, putting it in position for his receiver to make catches while avoiding putting the ball in danger of being intercepted. Fromm is a wise decision-maker who protects the ball well and doesn't get careless or panic. As a freshman and sophomore, Fromm was a dangerous play-action passer who came through with some clutch throws in crunch time.
Over his Georgia career, Fromm was generally a confident, calm, poised and efficient pocket passer. He stood tall in the pocket and was a consistent passer distributing the ball. He demonstrated good timing and precision to hit his receivers through windows in coverage while leading them to produce more yards after the catch. His calm and poised approach lended to him showing field vision in the pocket, as he would move his eyes and work off his primary read. For a young quarterback, Fromm had impressive field vision at the start of his time at Georgia. As a pro, he would be a would be a good fit in a west coast offense.
Team sources rave about Fromm's intangibles. They say he is a great kid with excellent character, work ethic, and intelligence. Fromm's intangibles could cause some coaches to fall in love during the draft process.
In this draft analyst's opinion, Fromm is a fringe starter and more of a backup-caliber quarterback for the NFL. I just don't believe he has the physical tools to be dynamic starter. For Fromm to be a good NFL starter, he will need an excellent core around him to let him distribute the ball to play-making receivers while relying on a potent rushing attack.
Link - ( New Window )
Grade: 76
Summary: Junior entry from Warner Robbins, Georgia. Three-year starter who took over the job in 2017 as a result of an injury to Jacob Eason. Fromm starred, winning the SEC Freshman of the Year Award and never gave up the job afterward. Justin Fields, the Ohio State quarterback who is likely going to be a top 10 pick in 2021, transferred from Georgia because he couldn’t beat Fromm out. Fromm won a ton of games and was a two-year team captain. While his tools won’t impress, he knows how to gain a coach’s trust. He plays within himself, he makes smart decisions, and he knows when to alter his aggression. The issue is a lack of true upside and he just doesn’t seem to have the physical potential to take over a game when necessary. He is likely heading toward backup duty but also likely to get a shot at some point.
But he was 4th on the Buffalo depth chart. But Davis Webb was ahead of him. Yes he was and so was Trubisky and of course Allen. All 6'5" big arm QBs. But they kept Fromm around anyway even though he probably looked like a high school kid next to those guys.
The only way a guy like Fromm gets a chance to play QB in the NFL is the starter gets hurt and the back up gets hurt or the back up is so bad there's nothing lose. That's situation he has right now. I hope Glennon has to miss a few games with something not serious. Solder too. There's nothing to be gained by playing them.
It's kind of like baseball pitchers now. If you don't throw 95 MLB doesn't want you. Even though there are guys who can actually pitch - change speeds, fool hitters etc that don't throw 95 and a lot of guys who throw 98 can't get anyone out. But the guys who can pitch not throw don't get a chance unless there's no one else left.
But if we’re talking 15-20 plays, you’re not learning much about him. The defense will obliterate them.
All of this is academic - Judge won’t lose his job taking a risk on Fromm.
The book on what these coaches and players are was closed weeks ago.
Danny Kanell was a decent QB, we had a winning team
Then they subbed out Danny for Kerry Collins and we became the NFL Pick Six joke.
Yes Kerry did make it to the SB but he saved his best Pick Six for that game.
I still think our own pick six that was nullified by penalty turned that game against us
Kerry was a frustrating QB to watch
He was great between the 20's but could not penetrate the Red Zone
The book on what these coaches and players are was closed weeks ago.
I want to see a lot of player evaluation over the next month, but if Fromm doesn’t have a command of the offense you can’t evaluate anyone.
If Judge coaches by “fuck it, let’s see Fromm” and someone gets gets hurt because he missed lining someone up properly, Mara should walk down to the field and fire him mid-game.
There simply also has to be a middle ground of putting together a game plan than is standard enough for him to operate but also decent enough for Offense to produce without being a mockery.
And let's not get too dramatic here and suggest Jones and Glennon haven't screwed up protections/calls every game too. Isn't that one of the reasons they give us 3 time-outs per half?
Not to mention our normal extensive Offensive Packages only create about 10 points a game (excluding garbage time) so dialing it back some has little downside to our the coaching staff's bravado.
Bottom line - it would be a miss for Giants not to try and determine this year if Fromm has some "QB genes" in him to be part of future roster...