higher investment in the LB role again. JS said he was a fan of the late 80's Giants teams. Now we have a DC who built a big part of his reputation on his work in this area.
experienced DC with good defenses. Hopefully he’ll have the horses here to do what he wants to do and if not, has the ability to adjust. No more giving up 79 points within two minutes of halftime!!
this is from a PFF article that was posted by someone a few days ago analyzing the schemes of each team for the past few years.
The Ravens were a heavy coverage team with a strong secondary which fits the current personnel here but hard to not get excited at the prospect of adding in some aggressive blitz packages that have a track record of scheming unblocked defenders.
Quote:
At this point, we know who the Ravens are under defensive coordinator Wink Martindale: They are going to blitz every chance they get and play man coverage on the back end.
The Ravens are exceptional at finding weaknesses in protection and getting free rushers while they play tight man coverage behind it. Last season, only one team played more man-coverage snaps where at least one receiver was pressed (231 snaps). And although they only ranked 16th league-wide in EPA allowed per play when they did that in 2020, they were second in the same metric during the 2019 regular season.
Over the past two seasons, Baltimore has created unblocked pressure on 177 snaps, 37 more than the next best squad over that span.
I am not saying that I would not hire him, but I really have never heard a good explanation of what went down there and if Harbaugh blamed them for their poor defense this year (they had a ton of injuries in the secondary).
I am not saying that I would not hire him, but I really have never heard a good explanation of what went down there and if Harbaugh blamed them for their poor defense this year (they had a ton of injuries in the secondary).
Sounds like a combination of wanting MacDonald as their DC, Martindale's contract being up after 2022 season, and differences of opinion about the style of Defense after injuries plagued them. Even though they did blitz less, it was still way too much for Harbaugh who probably wanted more zone schemes to cover for the fact that DB's were not capable of playing man.
I am not saying that I would not hire him, but I really have never heard a good explanation of what went down there and if Harbaugh blamed them for their poor defense this year (they had a ton of injuries in the secondary).
Not fired, just not re-signed. Coached to the end of his contract.
He was the LB coach in BAL during much of the Ray Lewis (MLB) heyday
I wouldn't say this is a clear upgrade but we know what we're getting here with Wink. He's a good coach and Daboll won't need to worry much about that side of the ball. Makes complete sense and glad we were able to snag him with Graham leaving.
Its pretty well known that Wink's aspiration is to eventually be a Head Coach. With that in mind the Giants should have a back up plan in place.
Sean Desai was the DC for the Bears and was let go this offseason. Desai had 2 interviews to be another teams DC- the Seahawks and the Giants.
Well Clint Hurtt (he was the Seahawks DL coach) has just been announced as a promotion to the Seahawks new DC position.
Word this morning is that the Seahawks were very impressed with Desai, and plan on offering him a job as a position coach to work under Hurtt.
I am hoping that the Giants will be do the same with Desai. He is young (38), but would be a great hire to learn from Wink and as a backup plan if Wink leaves in a year or 2.
The available DC jobs have pretty much dried up for 2022 for Sean Desai. His best move at this point is to accept a position coach job.
I like the staff. Obviously some carryover from Buffalo but interviewed and hired the best possible candidates at coordinator even if he did not have strong ties.
Baltimore the last few seasons, knows this is an upgrade. The guy had moving parts consistently in and out of that defense and he still had his unit rank in the top 10 in the NFL. He’s a really good coach.
Its pretty well known that Wink's aspiration is to eventually be a Head Coach. With that in mind the Giants should have a back up plan in place.
Sean Desai was the DC for the Bears and was let go this offseason. Desai had 2 interviews to be another teams DC- the Seahawks and the Giants.
Well Clint Hurtt (he was the Seahawks DL coach) has just been announced as a promotion to the Seahawks new DC position.
Word this morning is that the Seahawks were very impressed with Desai, and plan on offering him a job as a position coach to work under Hurtt.
I am hoping that the Giants will be do the same with Desai. He is young (38), but would be a great hire to learn from Wink and as a backup plan if Wink leaves in a year or 2.
The available DC jobs have pretty much dried up for 2022 for Sean Desai. His best move at this point is to accept a position coach job.
Keep on eye on what happens next with Desai.
For sure. Would love to keep Desai around. We certainly have the room: we need a DL coach, an ILB coach, an OLB coach, etc. And hell, I'd love to have Steve Wilks as the CB/S coach alongside Jerome Henderson.
Remember, this roster isn't getting turned around in one offseason
DE Odafe (Jay) Oweh 31st pick 2021
LB Patrick Queen 28th pick 2020
OLB Jaylon Ferguson 3rd rd pick 2019
(fewer day 1/2 draft picks on D than I expected)
DE Justin Houston 2021 (FA)
DL Calais Campbell 2020 (FA)
DL Derek Wolfe 2020 (FA)
S Earl Thomas 2019 (FA)
CB Marcus Peters 2019 (trade)
(they liked to buy low on cap casualties)
they also:
let Zadarius Smith walk in 2019
let CJ Mosely walk in 2019
resigned Marlon Humphrey to a near 100m extension in 2021
let Matt Judon walk in 2021
So in terms of resource allocation the current roster matches up with what the Ravens did. A lot of money in DBs and versatile DL. They developed and recycled LB/edge rushers as opposed to giving out 2nd contracts.
Pat Leonard
✔
@PLeonardNYDN
A source told the Daily News during the head coach interview process that Daboll intended to hire Wink Martindale as his DC if he got the Giants gig & the position opened (@JordanRaanan was on that, too). Now, per @AdamSchefter & @RapSheet, that's exactly what is happening.
you can make arguments for or against aggressive DC's
that blitz a lot, but in the new NFL it's the way to go.
The bend-but-don't break system not only has you giving up a lot of yards, but it will kill your time of possession and keep your offense from getting bites at the apple.
Even if a blitz gets beat and you give up a score, you have time to answer it with your next possession. AND you cause more turnovers, which are gold in creating scenarios to win.
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
As one veteran who has played for multiple DCs told me a few weeks ago when I asked about Wink Martindale: "Best [coordinator] I've had. I don't know how he got fired."
Track record speaks for itself. Strong hire by Giants and Brian Daboll, who now has his defensive head coach.
Experienced DC really takes the pressure off of Daboll
Jordan Raanan
✔
@JordanRaanan
As one veteran who has played for multiple DCs told me a few weeks ago when I asked about Wink Martindale: "Best [coordinator] I've had. I don't know how he got fired."
Track record speaks for itself. Strong hire by Giants and Brian Daboll, who now has his defensive head coach.
Jeff Zrebiec
✔
@jeffzrebiec
Can confirm reports that Wink Martindale will be the next defensive coordinator of the NY Giants. Also expect former Ravens OLB coach Drew Wilkins and possibly another former Baltimore staffer or two to go with him. Ravens and Giants play this season, which should be interesting.
Jeff Zrebiec
✔
@jeffzrebiec
Can confirm reports that Wink Martindale will be the next defensive coordinator of the NY Giants. Also expect former Ravens OLB coach Drew Wilkins and possibly another former Baltimore staffer or two to go with him. Ravens and Giants play this season, which should be interesting.
I kind of want to hire Rob Ryan just for the entertainment factor that he'd bring.
Some of the team's better players on the D, may be cap causalities, setting him back a bit. Without the cuts the team greatest needs were OL and ER, but you may be adding ILB, SS, and CB with the cuts that may be coming.
RE: you can make arguments for or against aggressive DC's
that blitz a lot, but in the new NFL it's the way to go.
The bend-but-don't break system not only has you giving up a lot of yards, but it will kill your time of possession and keep your offense from getting bites at the apple.
Even if a blitz gets beat and you give up a score, you have time to answer it with your next possession. AND you cause more turnovers, which are gold in creating scenarios to win.
This is a much-needed shift in strategy.
Bend but don't break just gives offensive play makers too many chances to make a play.
I know it can work and it has worked before but it isn't for me. I prefer to attack, it gives the defense a different identity. I think players prefer to attack.
Trade both 1st round picks for a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks..because they have so many holes, there won't be enough to go around.
I am glad we are off the Belichick tit(for the most part).
Quantity is not always a better haul, need to see how the picks unfurl. I'd be fired up going edge and corner at 5/7, there's damned good players.
Don't like the edges except Johnson. If Bradberry goes, yeah there are a couple CBs there (Stingley and Gardner?). Would really rather they get at least one of the OTs at #5.
that blitz a lot, but in the new NFL it's the way to go.
The bend-but-don't break system not only has you giving up a lot of yards, but it will kill your time of possession and keep your offense from getting bites at the apple.
Even if a blitz gets beat and you give up a score, you have time to answer it with your next possession. AND you cause more turnovers, which are gold in creating scenarios to win.
This is a much-needed shift in strategy.
Bend but don't break just gives offensive play makers too many chances to make a play.
I know it can work and it has worked before but it isn't for me. I prefer to attack, it gives the defense a different identity. I think players prefer to attack.
Bend don't break was overused because of the weak pass rush. Give him a pass rush and that should go away
We have CBs that need to play. ARob and A Jackson would be good Starters, if Bradberry gets released, with Holmes in the slot. I think we’re OK right now at CB and safety. We need LBers and another DT/NT that can push the pocket and hold up blockers!
I don't see a lot of value in being blitz heavy. It is situational and the strategy on D should reflect the overall team. The objective is to give your team the best chance to win.
Some of the team's better players on the D, may be cap causalities, setting him back a bit. Without the cuts the team greatest needs were OL and ER, but you may be adding ILB, SS, and CB with the cuts that may be coming.
Not really.. A lot of those guys do not fit what we will now be doing. LW will get a long term extension and play The Calais Campbell role for us..
Daboll seems to respect him from their battles and seems he will have the Giants play a more attacking brand of football. A nice change of pace from the boring and ineffective bend and then break philosophy under Judge who was allergic to taking any risks.
Feels like a 180 from the Graham defense, and is going to require a lot of changes.
Guessing this makes it a real possibility that they draft one of the top corners with one of their 1sts or in a trade down.
Yup. I'm guessing an OL at 5 and one of the CBs at 7.
This makes a lot of sense and would fit both need and value at those picks. Stingley or Gardner should be there. Need corners who can hold up in a heavy blitz scheme. I'm really intrigued by what feels like a total 180 in defensive scheme from what Graham was doing. But I'm optimistic for the first time in a long time
We now have Ravens influence on defense, KC influence
Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
I see a corner and overall speed at LB in the higher picks. If they can trade down I can see a Corner/ILB as the first two picks. Someone like a Dean or other.
Pat Leonard
✔
@PLeonardNYDN
A source told the Daily News during the head coach interview process that Daboll intended to hire Wink Martindale as his DC if he got the Giants gig & the position opened (@JordanRaanan was on that, too). Now, per @AdamSchefter & @RapSheet, that's exactly what is happening.
So forgive me for reading between the lines but sounds like Graham was being forced on Daboll.
Pat Leonard
✔
@PLeonardNYDN
A source told the Daily News during the head coach interview process that Daboll intended to hire Wink Martindale as his DC if he got the Giants gig & the position opened (@JordanRaanan was on that, too). Now, per @AdamSchefter & @RapSheet, that's exactly what is happening.
So forgive me for reading between the lines but sounds like Graham was being forced on Daboll.
Or Pat was wrong and got lucky.
RE: RE: I expect a CB with the 5th or 7th pick now even more
like the Giants are implementing the opposite of Gettleman folksy: "Run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer?" thing?
There is nothing wrong with the philosophy and it is what most good teams try to implement. You know what makes blitzing more impactful......stop the run and win the down and distance battle.
My next door neighbor who worked as a defensive assistant on the Saints for 11 years told me this weekend if Wink was hired by the Giants he would bring Rob Ryan with him.
That would be fun for sure.
website recently produced a great article on all the current Ravens players that are becoming free agents.
Good in depth read, and with Martindale now hired, you can expect the Giants to have interest in some Ravens defensive players.
Article attached Link - ( New Window )
Yankees, thanks. Most guys are over the hill that are UFA's on the D or injury prone if they showed some promise and weren't old.
Chris Board stands out as someone who could walk into a bigger role here. He played a lot of snaps in Baltimore over 4 years but on 2 starts. 26 years old.
Elliott is similar and just 24, though not sure how much more money they are going to look to spend at S.
rest would probably be low cost depth signings.
Does Martindale fit with what Schoen and Daboll want
So sick of the bend but don't break (even though it continually broke!)defenses we've practiced over the past few years.Love an aggressive D & obviously we're going to need more parts to make it work, but for the first time in a long time, it truly feels like we're embracing a new ideology & not the old "Giants way"!
RE: Does Martindale fit with what Schoen and Daboll want
like the Giants are implementing the opposite of Gettleman folksy: "Run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer?" thing?
Yes and it's the exact way successful modern teams are built. Teams that rank in the top 10 in passing offense and passing defense have been much more likely to make the Superbowl than running-oriented teams.
With the rule changes on hitting receivers and quarterbacks, it's practically a different sport from pre-2011.
Only thing that is a concern and even that isn't the right word,
Is that Schoen and the scouts are on the same page with Martindale. What Schoen knows and what Martinadale wants are complete opposites. Schoen talks about how he needs to sit down with his coaches and find out what they need. That's great but that doesn't mean it works out. Buffalo plays a completely different style of defense on what they value. This will be the first real big test for Schoen imo.
Baltimore's safeties werent good? We have a good centerfielder in McKinney.
Peppers (a free agent now) would seem to fit his system, and yes so would Hamilton from ND in the draft - but we have Love to play strong safety, which is his best position
Baltimore drafted small, fast LBs so Dean would be a natural
is all about good DBs. Last year when most of his secondary went down the defense suffered greatly. So this begs the question... What do you do with Bradberry our best CB and also biggest player to be cut for salary reasons. If that happens you can almost bet a CB will be one our first two picks.
RE: Only thing that is a concern and even that isn't the right word,
Is that Schoen and the scouts are on the same page with Martindale. What Schoen knows and what Martinadale wants are complete opposites. Schoen talks about how he needs to sit down with his coaches and find out what they need. That's great but that doesn't mean it works out. Buffalo plays a completely different style of defense on what they value. This will be the first real big test for Schoen imo.
I am more concerned with Daboll's philosophy who had a lot of time with BB and even a year with Saban at Bama. Both those guys love their LB's and big powerful people up front and press corners. Seems somewhat in line with Wink no?
is all about good DBs. Last year when most of his secondary went down the defense suffered greatly. So this begs the question... What do you do with Bradberry our best CB and also biggest player to be cut for salary reasons. If that happens you can almost bet a CB will be one our first two picks.
Bradberry took a huge step back last year imo and it was his inability to run with guys. I don't think it is a hard decision to try to trade him.
I think Wink's defense will mean the following for players on the team already:
Leonard Williams will get a long term deal to play The C.Campbell role and that FREES up a ton of cap space.
Blake Martinez is more than likely gone.
James Bradberry is Gone
Adore Jackson and A.Robinson become our starting CB's- we will add depth in rounds 3-5 here- I do NOT see us taking a CB in RD 1 for sure, unless we trade down.
Ellerson Smith will get a chance outside and Ojulari gets to be more of a disruptor.
Roche isn't athletic enough for Edge here, he will be gone.
Carter could get another shot here based on his play late and the style of this defense.
Dexter Lawrence could get traded, he just doesn't fit well in this scheme.
Loved the Kafka/Tierney hires, and love bringing on Wink as DC.
The best part of this hire is he’s been a DC for a while and is a bit of an afterthought as a HC around the league. Less likely to lose him to another team.
Is that Schoen and the scouts are on the same page with Martindale. What Schoen knows and what Martinadale wants are complete opposites. Schoen talks about how he needs to sit down with his coaches and find out what they need. That's great but that doesn't mean it works out. Buffalo plays a completely different style of defense on what they value. This will be the first real big test for Schoen imo.
I am more concerned with Daboll's philosophy who had a lot of time with BB and even a year with Saban at Bama. Both those guys love their LB's and big powerful people up front and press corners. Seems somewhat in line with Wink no?
My point is that this is now Wink's defense. He is a proven DC. Any HC telling him to change is just asking for problems. That doesn't mean they can't discuss new ways of doing things but ultimately this is Wink's D.
My point is that Schoen is used to evaluating coners for zone coverage. The Bills have used early picks on front 7 guys and picked up corners later in the draft. That is the exact opposite of what Wink wants and values. He needs cover guys. The whole grading system has to be altered. That's not an easy task.
Albert Breer
@AlbertBreer
The Giants have agreed to a three-year deal with new defensive coordinator Wink Martindale, sources say. Nice commitment get for new coach Brian Daboll.
RE: RE: I expect a CB with the 5th or 7th pick now even more
Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
It’s actually an even deeper class at EDGE. Enagbare, Ebiketie, Drake Jackson, Cam Thomas, Deangelo Malone and Joshua Paschall are a few of the day 2 and later names that come to mind,
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Quick reaction to the Martindale hire. This is a complete 180 from Patrick Graham, who was all about adjusting schemes based on matchups. Martindale’s defense has a distinct, aggressive style that he’ll sink or swim with
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
From what I gather there was some friction with Harbaugh last season and a dispute about his contract status going forward, so they just decided to move on
Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
With the likes of Gardner Stingley or even Booth or McDuffie CB would NOT be a reach at 5. Consider also that his defense almost requires a near shutdown M2M corner on both sides to maximize it's effectiveness.
Bradberry will be 29, is owed a bunch of new cash this year, and his play declined. Plus he’s in a walk year.
Corner is an excellent value on the first round, and the cash savings can be invested in a younger veteran at another position. I believe his job is at risk.
Last year he didnt play well, but this new defense will bring pressure so CBs dont have to cover as long
Bradberry's issue is contractual because the Giants are up against the cap, not how he plays
Robinson is a slot corner, so he isnt a replacement for Bradberry
If they cut/trade Bradberry, then that money goes to OL so they dont have to take an OL in the first round and they take a CB with one of those picks
Robinson came in as a slot but also had the versatility to transition outside. He help up well when he was asked to last year and can do both. Holmes is the only true slot CB on the roster right now.
I love that both our offense and defense should be aggressive
Watching Garrett/Judge's offensive game plans and Graham's bend but don't break D was tough. And I liked Graham. I thought the defense played hard and was generally well coached but this guy is an upgrade. Corners and pass rushers, lets go!
My next door neighbor who worked as a defensive assistant on the Saints for 11 years told me this weekend if Wink was hired by the Giants he would bring Rob Ryan with him.
That would be fun for sure.
A Ryan is going to be a coach for the New York Football Giants...we really are living in bizarro world.
Good Morning Football
@gmfb
Nov 9, 2020
"The @Ravens needed this win, and the D led the way. No Marlon Humphrey. Calais Campbell goes down on the first drive. 8 players were unable to practice all week because of the COVID protocols. And Wink Martindale's unit absolutely dominated." -- @PSchrags
Peter Schrager
@PSchrags
Dec 2, 2020
No Brandon Williams. No Calais Campbell. No Matt Judon.
Wink Martindale’s D played pretty darn well today, considering the circumstances.
Wink will get HC job interviews this year, as he did last year. Those Ravens defensive players love the guy.
Jamison Hensley
@jamisonhensley
Dec 21, 2020
In three seasons with Don "Wink" Martindale as their defensive coordinator, the Ravens rank...
-1st in fewest yards allowed (311)
-3rd against the run (94.8)
-5th against the pass (216.3)
-2nd in fewest points allowed (18.6)
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
Dec 27, 2020
One name to consider when discussing head coach possibilities: #Ravens DC Wink Martindale. He’s considered to be one of the top candidates, and this season has only bolstered that. His staff targets include #Clemson OC Tony Elliott, and former HCs Marvin Lewis and Lovie Smith. Link - ( New Window )
that was not used to his KNOW STRENGTHS? Same with A. Jackson far as not being in more press man coverage. So let's demantle the ONLY real strength of a bad team?
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
Its pretty well known that Wink's aspiration is to eventually be a Head Coach. With that in mind the Giants should have a back up plan in place.
Sean Desai was the DC for the Bears and was let go this offseason. Desai had 2 interviews to be another teams DC- the Seahawks and the Giants.
Well Clint Hurtt (he was the Seahawks DL coach) has just been announced as a promotion to the Seahawks new DC position.
Word this morning is that the Seahawks were very impressed with Desai, and plan on offering him a job as a position coach to work under Hurtt.
I am hoping that the Giants will be do the same with Desai. He is young (38), but would be a great hire to learn from Wink and as a backup plan if Wink leaves in a year or 2.
The available DC jobs have pretty much dried up for 2022 for Sean Desai. His best move at this point is to accept a position coach job.
Keep on eye on what happens next with Desai.
Desai is also a CT guy, so a position coaching job with the Giants may be more enticing to him than going across the country to Seattle.
Anyone worried that we don't have the players for his style
Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
that was not used to his KNOW STRENGTHS? Same with A. Jackson far as not being in more press man coverage. So let's demantle the ONLY real strength of a bad team?
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
I agree with you about Jackson. Last offseason they added Jackson and Judge said that Graham had to adjust his scheme with only Bradberry the prior year. Then this year they played soft. Perhaps the Giants were surprised at his losing a step (Bradberry) and again faced the same challenge. So even with Jackson you still need a top press corner. Two good press corners with a rising safety can help your pass rush imv. Add speed at LB as well.
RE: Anyone worried that we don't have the players for his style
Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
The Giants don't have the players anywhere on this roster. We're starting over. Some of you guys have to come to grips with this. The roster is going to be torn apart.
Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
The Giants don't have the players anywhere on this roster. We're starting over. Some of you guys have to come to grips with this. The roster is going to be torn apart.
I actually think Ojulari will benefit from this a TON. I think LW will be a key cog. The rest of our LB's will most likely go- Ellerson Smith will now get a real chance to be a force. Dexter Lawrence doesn't fit here at all and should be traded. Adore Jackson will benefit from this a a lot as well.
Most of the defense will get dismantled and rebuilt.
I'll try to read this thread later so I'm probably chiming in
off topic. I love the hire. This may have been mentioned but there's talk of a few of the other Ravens defensive coaches coming with him including their OLB coach. Yes please.
No offense to Pat Graham who I wish nothing but success and a HC job in the near future but I'm really happy he went to the Raiders. The more fresh faces with no previous connection to the Mara's the better IMO.
Good hire, fairly pleased with all the new heads in the building.
is all about good DBs. Last year when most of his secondary went down the defense suffered greatly. So this begs the question... What do you do with Bradberry our best CB and also biggest player to be cut for salary reasons. If that happens you can almost bet a CB will be one our first two picks.
Bradberry took a huge step back last year imo and it was his inability to run with guys. I don't think it is a hard decision to try to trade him.
I think he started slow, but then was playing very well before tailing at the end like everyone. He still had 4 picks with 17 PD. That is pretty good. He has more throws his way because the Defense was on the field so much. Offense couldn't stay on the field. The concerning thing was his missed tackles went up but I think a lot of that was people giving up at the end.
need an ILB that can also reek havoc. Would love to see the Giants make LBer an emphasis again!
100%. I would love to see him as the #7 pick and I don't see it as a reach. I know it was just one play, but in the Orange Bowl he flew across the field to tackle the Michigan RB in the backfield and his speed jumped off the screen.
RE: Good hire, fairly pleased with all the new heads in the building.
Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
The Giants don't have the players anywhere on this roster. We're starting over. Some of you guys have to come to grips with this. The roster is going to be torn apart.
Like building a house, you need a good foundation. It's a long build process that will cover a few more draft cycles.
RE: RE: RE: Anyone worried that we don't have the players for his style
Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
The Giants don't have the players anywhere on this roster. We're starting over. Some of you guys have to come to grips with this. The roster is going to be torn apart.
I actually think Ojulari will benefit from this a TON. I think LW will be a key cog. The rest of our LB's will most likely go- Ellerson Smith will now get a real chance to be a force. Dexter Lawrence doesn't fit here at all and should be traded. Adore Jackson will benefit from this a a lot as well.
Most of the defense will get dismantled and rebuilt.
Why doesn't Dex Lawrence fit? He can play 1 Tech DT, Leo Williams will be a 3tech DT when giving a 4 man front. You play a 5 man front Dex and Leo both move to 5 Techs. Need a NT if they don't bring Johnson back.
Gonna need at least that much time before the sun shines again on this miserable football team.
Better than chasing free agents and trying to plug holes in the lineup. I'm good with an extended rebuild now that we are cleaning up the scouting department and draft mess that we've been in for a decade.
That CB was one of the positions he considered to be of high draft value, given the contract costs for a marquee CB. Sounds like that will dovetail with Wink's philosophy.
That CB was one of the positions he considered to be of high draft value, given the contract costs for a marquee CB. Sounds like that will dovetail with Wink's philosophy.
I see a lot of group think here. Look at the Ravens drafts and Bills, they generally do not draft CB's in rd 1 (Humphrey was the exception 4 years ago)..
Baltimore's safeties werent good? We have a good centerfielder in McKinney.
Peppers (a free agent now) would seem to fit his system, and yes so would Hamilton from ND in the draft - but we have Love to play strong safety, which is his best position
Baltimore drafted small, fast LBs so Dean would be a natural
He runs primarily a Cover 1 scheme from what I've seen.
RE: RE: Schoen mentioned in his interview with Schmeelk
I see a lot of group think here. Look at the Ravens drafts and Bills, they generally do not draft CB's in rd 1 (Humphrey was the exception 4 years ago)..
Considering the general state of the Ravens at any given time, they may not have drafted a CB high because they had good players doing that job already. They had Humphrey and Jimmy Smith (Rd 1, 2011) in 2020, for example.
They added Marcus Peters and Brandon Carr for not-top-of-the-market money.
The Giants pay an absolute fortune for their CBs because they consistently fail to draft and develop them and need to hire mercenaries to have good corners.
but it was so boring watch that defense play death by 1,000 cuts. I'd rather gamble and lose then watch that style of play. It's really difficult to watch that after growing up watching LT, Banks, Strhan, Osi and Tuck.
Hopefully the philosophy change will bring attacking style play back to the Giants and it's more fun to play and watch.
Graham was likely constrained by the talent he had, but they did give up BJ Hill who has been productive in a limited role and they have invested a lot in the secondary.
I like our secondary, and think you will see a marked difference
but it was so boring watch that defense play death by 1,000 cuts. I'd rather gamble and lose then watch that style of play. It's really difficult to watch that after growing up watching LT, Banks, Strhan, Osi and Tuck.
Hopefully the philosophy change will bring attacking style play back to the Giants and it's more fun to play and watch.
Graham was likely constrained by the talent he had, but they did give up BJ Hill who has been productive in a limited role and they have invested a lot in the secondary.
agreed if we are going down, go down coming after people that soft shit at end of first half is nauseating
Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
This. We currently don't have the players needed to get to the QB. And the Ravens were last in league last year in passing yards against.
but it was so boring watch that defense play death by 1,000 cuts. I'd rather gamble and lose then watch that style of play. It's really difficult to watch that after growing up watching LT, Banks, Strhan, Osi and Tuck.
Hopefully the philosophy change will bring attacking style play back to the Giants and it's more fun to play and watch.
Graham was likely constrained by the talent he had, but they did give up BJ Hill who has been productive in a limited role and they have invested a lot in the secondary.
See right there ... I'd rather lose ... it is less entertaining ... fan vs coach perspective
Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
This. We currently don't have the players needed to get to the QB. And the Ravens were last in league last year in passing yards against.
The Ravens secondary was decimated with injuries.
I think we need to look at the fact that this type of defense might actually make our selection Of Ellerson Smith a kind of Justin Tuck like Homerun. His skills fit the Edge look that Wink's defenses are known for.
RE: RE: RE: I expect a CB with the 5th or 7th pick now even more
Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
With the likes of Gardner Stingley or even Booth or McDuffie CB would NOT be a reach at 5. Consider also that his defense almost requires a near shutdown M2M corner on both sides to maximize it's effectiveness.
All of this is hypothetical of course, but depending on availability prior to either pick at #5 and #7, I'm thinking they go with a combo of an OL and Kyle Hamilton, depending on availability.
Hamilton and McKinney, young and cost effective while having the safety position secured with guys on their rookie deals who can both play.
And Patrick Graham grossly misused Bradberry last year. I could see the the Giants restructuring Bradberry's contract to help with the cap situation, he has the chance to do very well in a Martindale defense.
that was not used to his KNOW STRENGTHS? Same with A. Jackson far as not being in more press man coverage. So let's demantle the ONLY real strength of a bad team?
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
I know. We could probably trade Bradberry, but if the Giants decide to cut him, they'd be looking for someone just like him. That is usually not the mark of a good decision.
that was not used to his KNOW STRENGTHS? Same with A. Jackson far as not being in more press man coverage. So let's demantle the ONLY real strength of a bad team?
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
I know. We could probably trade Bradberry, but if the Giants decide to cut him, they'd be looking for someone just like him. That is usually not the mark of a good decision.
The good decision here would be admitting the mistake and cutting your losses. If someone wants to trade for Bradberry that would be awesome.
Not sure what the label of Robinson as a "slot" corner is about
that was not used to his KNOW STRENGTHS? Same with A. Jackson far as not being in more press man coverage. So let's demantle the ONLY real strength of a bad team?
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
I know. We could probably trade Bradberry, but if the Giants decide to cut him, they'd be looking for someone just like him. That is usually not the mark of a good decision.
Poor management led to mistakes. The cost of poor management led to this. It shouldn't ever happen. And bradberry is a good player and in a vacuum, the signing was fine. That's why we have a new gm and a new front office. They botched everything.
He has long speed. He has enough length. He does not have a stiff transition problem.
Based on team cb dynamics he s/b Plan A subject to draft modification.
He played the slot in college so he'd be a work in progress outside. It also begs the question, is it worth moving him outside if he's merely adequate at best but excels in the slot?
he can man up there pretty well I would think. On the other hand Holmes was an outside corner in college, I think and the Giants played him inside. Bradberry has to go for cap relief. An early pick for a starting CB makes tons of sense. And the value is there.
Its pretty well known that Wink's aspiration is to eventually be a Head Coach. With that in mind the Giants should have a back up plan in place.
Sean Desai was the DC for the Bears and was let go this offseason. Desai had 2 interviews to be another teams DC- the Seahawks and the Giants.
Well Clint Hurtt (he was the Seahawks DL coach) has just been announced as a promotion to the Seahawks new DC position.
Word this morning is that the Seahawks were very impressed with Desai, and plan on offering him a job as a position coach to work under Hurtt.
I am hoping that the Giants will be do the same with Desai. He is young (38), but would be a great hire to learn from Wink and as a backup plan if Wink leaves in a year or 2.
The available DC jobs have pretty much dried up for 2022 for Sean Desai. His best move at this point is to accept a position coach job.
Keep on eye on what happens next with Desai.
Great post!
RE: RE: RE: I expect a CB with the 5th or 7th pick now even more
Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
With the likes of Gardner Stingley or even Booth or McDuffie CB would NOT be a reach at 5. Consider also that his defense almost requires a near shutdown M2M corner on both sides to maximize it's effectiveness.
Stop it. Booth and McDuffie would both be massive reaches at #5 overall. McDuffie would be a great pick at #36. He'd be a reach at any single digit pick, and questionable in the first round at all.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I expect a CB with the 5th or 7th pick now even more
Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
With the likes of Gardner Stingley or even Booth or McDuffie CB would NOT be a reach at 5. Consider also that his defense almost requires a near shutdown M2M corner on both sides to maximize it's effectiveness.
Stop it. Booth and McDuffie would both be massive reaches at #5 overall. McDuffie would be a great pick at #36. He'd be a reach at any single digit pick, and questionable in the first round at all.
Actually, let me walk that back. My fury about McDuffy overcame me - Booth would be fine anywhere outside of the top 10 (as would Gardner).
But I maintain that McDuffie at #5 would make me pine for DG.
Graham’s D was a variation of Rod Rusts “read and react” D that drove
Schefter - ( New Window )
multiple edge/lb's that have speed that can blitz. And corners that can play more man coverage than zone.
Guessing Bradberry is def on trade block now since he is more of a cover 2 type zone corner.
That is a big infusion of new thinking. I liked Judge, but he seemed to prefer pulling from college for assistants.
The Ravens were a heavy coverage team with a strong secondary which fits the current personnel here but hard to not get excited at the prospect of adding in some aggressive blitz packages that have a track record of scheming unblocked defenders.
The Ravens are exceptional at finding weaknesses in protection and getting free rushers while they play tight man coverage behind it. Last season, only one team played more man-coverage snaps where at least one receiver was pressed (231 snaps). And although they only ranked 16th league-wide in EPA allowed per play when they did that in 2020, they were second in the same metric during the 2019 regular season.
Over the past two seasons, Baltimore has created unblocked pressure on 177 snaps, 37 more than the next best squad over that span.
Hes carried the torch over there in Baltimore at DC outstandingly. The Giants are definitely going to look a hell of a lot different thats for sure.
Lets do it.
Sounds like a combination of wanting MacDonald as their DC, Martindale's contract being up after 2022 season, and differences of opinion about the style of Defense after injuries plagued them. Even though they did blitz less, it was still way too much for Harbaugh who probably wanted more zone schemes to cover for the fact that DB's were not capable of playing man.
Not fired, just not re-signed. Coached to the end of his contract.
I like him but his availability is a concern. His being on the team should have no impact on the draft imv.
Trade both 1st round picks for a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks..because they have so many holes, there won't be enough to go around.
I am glad we are off the Belichick tit(for the most part).
Its pretty well known that Wink's aspiration is to eventually be a Head Coach. With that in mind the Giants should have a back up plan in place.
Sean Desai was the DC for the Bears and was let go this offseason. Desai had 2 interviews to be another teams DC- the Seahawks and the Giants.
Well Clint Hurtt (he was the Seahawks DL coach) has just been announced as a promotion to the Seahawks new DC position.
Word this morning is that the Seahawks were very impressed with Desai, and plan on offering him a job as a position coach to work under Hurtt.
I am hoping that the Giants will be do the same with Desai. He is young (38), but would be a great hire to learn from Wink and as a backup plan if Wink leaves in a year or 2.
The available DC jobs have pretty much dried up for 2022 for Sean Desai. His best move at this point is to accept a position coach job.
Keep on eye on what happens next with Desai.
Whay does this mean for guys like Lorenzo Carter and Oshane Ximines??
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Now give the man some weapons to build around.
Trade both 1st round picks for a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks..because they have so many holes, there won't be enough to go around.
I am glad we are off the Belichick tit(for the most part).
Quantity is not always a better haul, need to see how the picks unfurl. I'd be fired up going edge and corner at 5/7, there's damned good players.
Yankee - really interesting comment. Thanks.
Guessing this makes it a real possibility that they draft one of the top corners with one of their 1sts or in a trade down.
Its pretty well known that Wink's aspiration is to eventually be a Head Coach. With that in mind the Giants should have a back up plan in place.
Sean Desai was the DC for the Bears and was let go this offseason. Desai had 2 interviews to be another teams DC- the Seahawks and the Giants.
Well Clint Hurtt (he was the Seahawks DL coach) has just been announced as a promotion to the Seahawks new DC position.
Word this morning is that the Seahawks were very impressed with Desai, and plan on offering him a job as a position coach to work under Hurtt.
I am hoping that the Giants will be do the same with Desai. He is young (38), but would be a great hire to learn from Wink and as a backup plan if Wink leaves in a year or 2.
The available DC jobs have pretty much dried up for 2022 for Sean Desai. His best move at this point is to accept a position coach job.
Keep on eye on what happens next with Desai.
For sure. Would love to keep Desai around. We certainly have the room: we need a DL coach, an ILB coach, an OLB coach, etc. And hell, I'd love to have Steve Wilks as the CB/S coach alongside Jerome Henderson.
Not really a surprise based on the interview process.
We will find out if he's better than Graham, but he will
be more aggressive with his scheme.
Rob Ryan. Imagine Rob Ryan as a Football Giants coach. Haha
Like there’s a purpose instead of just spinning the tires
Except, Daboll is the HC, so Wink doesn’t draw the line(s)..:)
Rob Ryan. Imagine Rob Ryan as a Football Giants coach. Haha
Oh my, LOL.
LB Patrick Queen 28th pick 2020
OLB Jaylon Ferguson 3rd rd pick 2019
(fewer day 1/2 draft picks on D than I expected)
DE Justin Houston 2021 (FA)
DL Calais Campbell 2020 (FA)
DL Derek Wolfe 2020 (FA)
S Earl Thomas 2019 (FA)
CB Marcus Peters 2019 (trade)
(they liked to buy low on cap casualties)
they also:
let Zadarius Smith walk in 2019
let CJ Mosely walk in 2019
resigned Marlon Humphrey to a near 100m extension in 2021
let Matt Judon walk in 2021
So in terms of resource allocation the current roster matches up with what the Ravens did. A lot of money in DBs and versatile DL. They developed and recycled LB/edge rushers as opposed to giving out 2nd contracts.
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@PLeonardNYDN
A source told the Daily News during the head coach interview process that Daboll intended to hire Wink Martindale as his DC if he got the Giants gig & the position opened (@JordanRaanan was on that, too). Now, per @AdamSchefter & @RapSheet, that's exactly what is happening.
The bend-but-don't break system not only has you giving up a lot of yards, but it will kill your time of possession and keep your offense from getting bites at the apple.
Even if a blitz gets beat and you give up a score, you have time to answer it with your next possession. AND you cause more turnovers, which are gold in creating scenarios to win.
This is a much-needed shift in strategy.
@JordanRaanan
As one veteran who has played for multiple DCs told me a few weeks ago when I asked about Wink Martindale: "Best [coordinator] I've had. I don't know how he got fired."
Track record speaks for itself. Strong hire by Giants and Brian Daboll, who now has his defensive head coach.
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@JordanRaanan
As one veteran who has played for multiple DCs told me a few weeks ago when I asked about Wink Martindale: "Best [coordinator] I've had. I don't know how he got fired."
Track record speaks for itself. Strong hire by Giants and Brian Daboll, who now has his defensive head coach.
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@jeffzrebiec
Can confirm reports that Wink Martindale will be the next defensive coordinator of the NY Giants. Also expect former Ravens OLB coach Drew Wilkins and possibly another former Baltimore staffer or two to go with him. Ravens and Giants play this season, which should be interesting.
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Feels like a 180 from the Graham defense, and is going to require a lot of changes.
Guessing this makes it a real possibility that they draft one of the top corners with one of their 1sts or in a trade down.
Yup. I'm guessing an OL at 5 and one of the CBs at 7.
Quote:
have no fear, just deliver the tools to him.
Ojabo would be a great start, Wink would know exactly what to do with him.
Yep, might be too early for him tho. I wonder what he thinks of a bull like Karlaftis, or if Thibs drops to 5/7.
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@jeffzrebiec
Can confirm reports that Wink Martindale will be the next defensive coordinator of the NY Giants. Also expect former Ravens OLB coach Drew Wilkins and possibly another former Baltimore staffer or two to go with him. Ravens and Giants play this season, which should be interesting.
I kind of want to hire Rob Ryan just for the entertainment factor that he'd bring.
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@TomRock_Newsday
Brian Daboll's Bills offense never scored more than 17 points in three meetings against Wink Martindale's Ravens.
The bend-but-don't break system not only has you giving up a lot of yards, but it will kill your time of possession and keep your offense from getting bites at the apple.
Even if a blitz gets beat and you give up a score, you have time to answer it with your next possession. AND you cause more turnovers, which are gold in creating scenarios to win.
This is a much-needed shift in strategy.
I know it can work and it has worked before but it isn't for me. I prefer to attack, it gives the defense a different identity. I think players prefer to attack.
Quote:
In comment 15598313 JonC said:
Quote:
Now give the man some weapons to build around.
Trade both 1st round picks for a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks..because they have so many holes, there won't be enough to go around.
I am glad we are off the Belichick tit(for the most part).
Quantity is not always a better haul, need to see how the picks unfurl. I'd be fired up going edge and corner at 5/7, there's damned good players.
Don't like the edges except Johnson. If Bradberry goes, yeah there are a couple CBs there (Stingley and Gardner?). Would really rather they get at least one of the OTs at #5.
This makes sense if the rumors of Wilkins to join Wink are true.
Here is the Wilkins bio
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 15598359 JonC said:
Quote:
have no fear, just deliver the tools to him.
Ojabo would be a great start, Wink would know exactly what to do with him.
Yep, might be too early for him tho. I wonder what he thinks of a bull like Karlaftis, or if Thibs drops to 5/7.
Quote:
that blitz a lot, but in the new NFL it's the way to go.
The bend-but-don't break system not only has you giving up a lot of yards, but it will kill your time of possession and keep your offense from getting bites at the apple.
Even if a blitz gets beat and you give up a score, you have time to answer it with your next possession. AND you cause more turnovers, which are gold in creating scenarios to win.
This is a much-needed shift in strategy.
Bend but don't break just gives offensive play makers too many chances to make a play.
I know it can work and it has worked before but it isn't for me. I prefer to attack, it gives the defense a different identity. I think players prefer to attack.
Good! I think LW is staying long term but DL is going to get moved.
@TomRock_Newsday
Brian Daboll's Bills offense never scored more than 17 points in three meetings against Wink Martindale's Ravens.
Thibs! Thibs! Thibs!
PPG:
2021: 19th
2020: 2nd
2019: 3rd
2018: 2nd
YPG:
2021: 25th
2020: 7th
2019: 4th
2018: 1st
Passing YPG:
2021: 32nd
2020: 6th
2019: 6th
2018: 5th
Rushing YPG:
2021: 1st
2020: 8th
2019: 5th
2018: 4th
Not really.. A lot of those guys do not fit what we will now be doing. LW will get a long term extension and play The Calais Campbell role for us..
Good in depth read, and with Martindale now hired, you can expect the Giants to have interest in some Ravens defensive players.
Article attached
Link - ( New Window )
I think he’s a 3-4 guy.
Quote:
In comment 15598340 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Feels like a 180 from the Graham defense, and is going to require a lot of changes.
Guessing this makes it a real possibility that they draft one of the top corners with one of their 1sts or in a trade down.
Yup. I'm guessing an OL at 5 and one of the CBs at 7.
This makes a lot of sense and would fit both need and value at those picks. Stingley or Gardner should be there. Need corners who can hold up in a heavy blitz scheme. I'm really intrigued by what feels like a total 180 in defensive scheme from what Graham was doing. But I'm optimistic for the first time in a long time
should be really entertaining, that's all we ask
Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
I see a corner and overall speed at LB in the higher picks. If they can trade down I can see a Corner/ILB as the first two picks. Someone like a Dean or other.
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@PLeonardNYDN
A source told the Daily News during the head coach interview process that Daboll intended to hire Wink Martindale as his DC if he got the Giants gig & the position opened (@JordanRaanan was on that, too). Now, per @AdamSchefter & @RapSheet, that's exactly what is happening.
So forgive me for reading between the lines but sounds like Graham was being forced on Daboll.
Quote:
Pat Leonard
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@PLeonardNYDN
A source told the Daily News during the head coach interview process that Daboll intended to hire Wink Martindale as his DC if he got the Giants gig & the position opened (@JordanRaanan was on that, too). Now, per @AdamSchefter & @RapSheet, that's exactly what is happening.
So forgive me for reading between the lines but sounds like Graham was being forced on Daboll.
Or Pat was wrong and got lucky.
Quote:
Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
No need to reach, there are 2 guys worthy of being top 7 picks, maybe even 3 guys. Plus a big safety that flies around the field.
There is nothing wrong with the philosophy and it is what most good teams try to implement. You know what makes blitzing more impactful......stop the run and win the down and distance battle.
Good in depth read, and with Martindale now hired, you can expect the Giants to have interest in some Ravens defensive players.
Article attached Link - ( New Window )
A bunch of those guys sound like the types who will be more appreciated by their former DC than the open market.
LJ Fort and Elliott are coming off injuries that may keep them to affordable 1 year deals.
Welch and Board sound like the types who will be looking for bigger roles.
Josh Byrnes and Justin Ellis are older vets who've bounced around but had good years under Wink.
That would be fun for sure.
Good in depth read, and with Martindale now hired, you can expect the Giants to have interest in some Ravens defensive players.
Article attached Link - ( New Window )
Yankees, thanks. Most guys are over the hill that are UFA's on the D or injury prone if they showed some promise and weren't old.
@TomRock_Newsday
Brian Daboll's Bills offense never scored more than 17 points in three meetings against Wink Martindale's Ravens.
Exactly.
Quote:
website recently produced a great article on all the current Ravens players that are becoming free agents.
Good in depth read, and with Martindale now hired, you can expect the Giants to have interest in some Ravens defensive players.
Article attached Link - ( New Window )
Yankees, thanks. Most guys are over the hill that are UFA's on the D or injury prone if they showed some promise and weren't old.
Chris Board stands out as someone who could walk into a bigger role here. He played a lot of snaps in Baltimore over 4 years but on 2 starts. 26 years old.
Elliott is similar and just 24, though not sure how much more money they are going to look to spend at S.
rest would probably be low cost depth signings.
In what way? They hired him, so they must believe he does.
Let's roll!
Yes and it's the exact way successful modern teams are built. Teams that rank in the top 10 in passing offense and passing defense have been much more likely to make the Superbowl than running-oriented teams.
With the rule changes on hitting receivers and quarterbacks, it's practically a different sport from pre-2011.
Peppers (a free agent now) would seem to fit his system, and yes so would Hamilton from ND in the draft - but we have Love to play strong safety, which is his best position
Baltimore drafted small, fast LBs so Dean would be a natural
since they just hired him, the assumption would be yes
I am more concerned with Daboll's philosophy who had a lot of time with BB and even a year with Saban at Bama. Both those guys love their LB's and big powerful people up front and press corners. Seems somewhat in line with Wink no?
Bradberry took a huge step back last year imo and it was his inability to run with guys. I don't think it is a hard decision to try to trade him.
Leonard Williams will get a long term deal to play The C.Campbell role and that FREES up a ton of cap space.
Blake Martinez is more than likely gone.
James Bradberry is Gone
Adore Jackson and A.Robinson become our starting CB's- we will add depth in rounds 3-5 here- I do NOT see us taking a CB in RD 1 for sure, unless we trade down.
Ellerson Smith will get a chance outside and Ojulari gets to be more of a disruptor.
Roche isn't athletic enough for Edge here, he will be gone.
Carter could get another shot here based on his play late and the style of this defense.
Dexter Lawrence could get traded, he just doesn't fit well in this scheme.
No more bend and never win defense.
Stop the run, pressure the quarterback.
Very exciting. Look for Giants to draft some linebackers with high draft picks.
The best part of this hire is he’s been a DC for a while and is a bit of an afterthought as a HC around the league. Less likely to lose him to another team.
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Is that Schoen and the scouts are on the same page with Martindale. What Schoen knows and what Martinadale wants are complete opposites. Schoen talks about how he needs to sit down with his coaches and find out what they need. That's great but that doesn't mean it works out. Buffalo plays a completely different style of defense on what they value. This will be the first real big test for Schoen imo.
I am more concerned with Daboll's philosophy who had a lot of time with BB and even a year with Saban at Bama. Both those guys love their LB's and big powerful people up front and press corners. Seems somewhat in line with Wink no?
My point is that this is now Wink's defense. He is a proven DC. Any HC telling him to change is just asking for problems. That doesn't mean they can't discuss new ways of doing things but ultimately this is Wink's D.
My point is that Schoen is used to evaluating coners for zone coverage. The Bills have used early picks on front 7 guys and picked up corners later in the draft. That is the exact opposite of what Wink wants and values. He needs cover guys. The whole grading system has to be altered. That's not an easy task.
@AlbertBreer
The Giants have agreed to a three-year deal with new defensive coordinator Wink Martindale, sources say. Nice commitment get for new coach Brian Daboll.
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Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
It’s actually an even deeper class at EDGE. Enagbare, Ebiketie, Drake Jackson, Cam Thomas, Deangelo Malone and Joshua Paschall are a few of the day 2 and later names that come to mind,
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@DDuggan21
Three years is a strong commitment, especially with contract issues playing a role in Martindale’s departure from Baltimore
multiple edge/lb's that have speed that can blitz. And corners that can play more man coverage than zone.
Guessing Bradberry is def on trade block now since he is more of a cover 2 type zone corner.
I disagree about Bradberry. Especially in his first year, he always covered the #1 WR in manned coverage. Still does, I think.
This is the bigger worry and he is now a year older and relies more so on technique but losing a step......
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@DDuggan21
Quick reaction to the Martindale hire. This is a complete 180 from Patrick Graham, who was all about adjusting schemes based on matchups. Martindale’s defense has a distinct, aggressive style that he’ll sink or swim with
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@DDuggan21
From what I gather there was some friction with Harbaugh last season and a dispute about his contract status going forward, so they just decided to move on
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@DDuggan21
Three years is a strong commitment, especially with contract issues playing a role in Martindale’s departure from Baltimore
JS said he would have the resources to hire good coaches in his press conference.
I'm all in.
Exactly. All the wall banging about soft zones in 2021 didn’t take into account Bradberry getting beat like a bag even when he had help.
He gave up the most TDs and 3rd most yards among all defenders in 2021.
Maybe there is a renaissance in his future, but he was bad when it mattered last year.
Throw that guy on an island with the league’s best?
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Graham and Wink have to totally different schemes so it will be interesting to now look for "wink" type guys.
multiple edge/lb's that have speed that can blitz. And corners that can play more man coverage than zone.
Guessing Bradberry is def on trade block now since he is more of a cover 2 type zone corner.
I disagree about Bradberry. Especially in his first year, he always covered the #1 WR in manned coverage. Still does, I think.
Doesn't matter, declining play and increasing pay (cap #) means way more. He will be gone.
Bradberry's issue is contractual because the Giants are up against the cap, not how he plays
Robinson is a slot corner, so he isnt a replacement for Bradberry
If they cut/trade Bradberry, then that money goes to OL so they dont have to take an OL in the first round and they take a CB with one of those picks
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Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
With the likes of Gardner Stingley or even Booth or McDuffie CB would NOT be a reach at 5. Consider also that his defense almost requires a near shutdown M2M corner on both sides to maximize it's effectiveness.
Corner is an excellent value on the first round, and the cash savings can be invested in a younger veteran at another position. I believe his job is at risk.
Bradberry's issue is contractual because the Giants are up against the cap, not how he plays
Robinson is a slot corner, so he isnt a replacement for Bradberry
If they cut/trade Bradberry, then that money goes to OL so they dont have to take an OL in the first round and they take a CB with one of those picks
Robinson came in as a slot but also had the versatility to transition outside. He help up well when he was asked to last year and can do both. Holmes is the only true slot CB on the roster right now.
That would be fun for sure.
A Ryan is going to be a coach for the New York Football Giants...we really are living in bizarro world.
Let's roll!
You'll just have to settle for his twin brother...
https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/1308129117980688384
Good Morning Football
@gmfb
Nov 9, 2020
"The @Ravens needed this win, and the D led the way. No Marlon Humphrey. Calais Campbell goes down on the first drive. 8 players were unable to practice all week because of the COVID protocols. And Wink Martindale's unit absolutely dominated." -- @PSchrags
Peter Schrager
@PSchrags
Dec 2, 2020
No Brandon Williams. No Calais Campbell. No Matt Judon.
Wink Martindale’s D played pretty darn well today, considering the circumstances.
Wink will get HC job interviews this year, as he did last year. Those Ravens defensive players love the guy.
Jamison Hensley
@jamisonhensley
Dec 21, 2020
In three seasons with Don "Wink" Martindale as their defensive coordinator, the Ravens rank...
-1st in fewest yards allowed (311)
-3rd against the run (94.8)
-5th against the pass (216.3)
-2nd in fewest points allowed (18.6)
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
Dec 27, 2020
One name to consider when discussing head coach possibilities: #Ravens DC Wink Martindale. He’s considered to be one of the top candidates, and this season has only bolstered that. His staff targets include #Clemson OC Tony Elliott, and former HCs Marvin Lewis and Lovie Smith.
Link - ( New Window )
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
Its pretty well known that Wink's aspiration is to eventually be a Head Coach. With that in mind the Giants should have a back up plan in place.
Sean Desai was the DC for the Bears and was let go this offseason. Desai had 2 interviews to be another teams DC- the Seahawks and the Giants.
Well Clint Hurtt (he was the Seahawks DL coach) has just been announced as a promotion to the Seahawks new DC position.
Word this morning is that the Seahawks were very impressed with Desai, and plan on offering him a job as a position coach to work under Hurtt.
I am hoping that the Giants will be do the same with Desai. He is young (38), but would be a great hire to learn from Wink and as a backup plan if Wink leaves in a year or 2.
The available DC jobs have pretty much dried up for 2022 for Sean Desai. His best move at this point is to accept a position coach job.
Keep on eye on what happens next with Desai.
Desai is also a CT guy, so a position coaching job with the Giants may be more enticing to him than going across the country to Seattle.
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
I agree with you about Jackson. Last offseason they added Jackson and Judge said that Graham had to adjust his scheme with only Bradberry the prior year. Then this year they played soft. Perhaps the Giants were surprised at his losing a step (Bradberry) and again faced the same challenge. So even with Jackson you still need a top press corner. Two good press corners with a rising safety can help your pass rush imv. Add speed at LB as well.
The Giants don't have the players anywhere on this roster. We're starting over. Some of you guys have to come to grips with this. The roster is going to be torn apart.
I'm all in.
Scott Steiner has not aged gracefully.
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Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
The Giants don't have the players anywhere on this roster. We're starting over. Some of you guys have to come to grips with this. The roster is going to be torn apart.
I actually think Ojulari will benefit from this a TON. I think LW will be a key cog. The rest of our LB's will most likely go- Ellerson Smith will now get a real chance to be a force. Dexter Lawrence doesn't fit here at all and should be traded. Adore Jackson will benefit from this a a lot as well.
Most of the defense will get dismantled and rebuilt.
No offense to Pat Graham who I wish nothing but success and a HC job in the near future but I'm really happy he went to the Raiders. The more fresh faces with no previous connection to the Mara's the better IMO.
After they finish laughing, of course...
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is all about good DBs. Last year when most of his secondary went down the defense suffered greatly. So this begs the question... What do you do with Bradberry our best CB and also biggest player to be cut for salary reasons. If that happens you can almost bet a CB will be one our first two picks.
Bradberry took a huge step back last year imo and it was his inability to run with guys. I don't think it is a hard decision to try to trade him.
I think he started slow, but then was playing very well before tailing at the end like everyone. He still had 4 picks with 17 PD. That is pretty good. He has more throws his way because the Defense was on the field so much. Offense couldn't stay on the field. The concerning thing was his missed tackles went up but I think a lot of that was people giving up at the end.
in ya!
Gonna need at least that much time before the sun shines again on this miserable football team.
100%. I would love to see him as the #7 pick and I don't see it as a reach. I know it was just one play, but in the Orange Bowl he flew across the field to tackle the Michigan RB in the backfield and his speed jumped off the screen.
After they finish laughing, of course...
Where do we start.
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Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
The Giants don't have the players anywhere on this roster. We're starting over. Some of you guys have to come to grips with this. The roster is going to be torn apart.
Like building a house, you need a good foundation. It's a long build process that will cover a few more draft cycles.
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In comment 15598665 Festina Lente said:
Quote:
Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
The Giants don't have the players anywhere on this roster. We're starting over. Some of you guys have to come to grips with this. The roster is going to be torn apart.
I actually think Ojulari will benefit from this a TON. I think LW will be a key cog. The rest of our LB's will most likely go- Ellerson Smith will now get a real chance to be a force. Dexter Lawrence doesn't fit here at all and should be traded. Adore Jackson will benefit from this a a lot as well.
Most of the defense will get dismantled and rebuilt.
Why doesn't Dex Lawrence fit? He can play 1 Tech DT, Leo Williams will be a 3tech DT when giving a 4 man front. You play a 5 man front Dex and Leo both move to 5 Techs. Need a NT if they don't bring Johnson back.
in ya!
Gonna need at least that much time before the sun shines again on this miserable football team.
Better than chasing free agents and trying to plug holes in the lineup. I'm good with an extended rebuild now that we are cleaning up the scouting department and draft mess that we've been in for a decade.
He doesn’t excel but still think there is some upside.
He doesn’t excel but still think there is some upside.
They aren't extending anyone this year with their nightmare cap situation.
I see a lot of group think here. Look at the Ravens drafts and Bills, they generally do not draft CB's in rd 1 (Humphrey was the exception 4 years ago)..
Peppers (a free agent now) would seem to fit his system, and yes so would Hamilton from ND in the draft - but we have Love to play strong safety, which is his best position
Baltimore drafted small, fast LBs so Dean would be a natural
He runs primarily a Cover 1 scheme from what I've seen.
I see a lot of group think here. Look at the Ravens drafts and Bills, they generally do not draft CB's in rd 1 (Humphrey was the exception 4 years ago)..
Considering the general state of the Ravens at any given time, they may not have drafted a CB high because they had good players doing that job already. They had Humphrey and Jimmy Smith (Rd 1, 2011) in 2020, for example.
They added Marcus Peters and Brandon Carr for not-top-of-the-market money.
The Giants pay an absolute fortune for their CBs because they consistently fail to draft and develop them and need to hire mercenaries to have good corners.
Behind door #1: An attacking versus a bend and hope to not break defense.
Agreed. That’s why I said reasonable. More like 2 yrs at around 16-18 total
I have no issue drafting a run stuffer or 2 in rds 3-4 either
They have always gotten production from players on the front 7 who were not all top stars and that is all coaching. Can’t wait to see how he helps LW
I also think this is a case to re-sign J. Smith and move on from Bradbury
If health is there and he runs his expected 40, you can now see Stingley in play if he is there
Hopefully the philosophy change will bring attacking style play back to the Giants and it's more fun to play and watch.
Graham was likely constrained by the talent he had, but they did give up BJ Hill who has been productive in a limited role and they have invested a lot in the secondary.
Hopefully the philosophy change will bring attacking style play back to the Giants and it's more fun to play and watch.
Graham was likely constrained by the talent he had, but they did give up BJ Hill who has been productive in a limited role and they have invested a lot in the secondary.
agreed if we are going down, go down coming after people that soft shit at end of first half is nauseating
Graham would have been better if we had delivered the tools to him too.
This. We currently don't have the players needed to get to the QB. And the Ravens were last in league last year in passing yards against.
Hopefully the philosophy change will bring attacking style play back to the Giants and it's more fun to play and watch.
Graham was likely constrained by the talent he had, but they did give up BJ Hill who has been productive in a limited role and they have invested a lot in the secondary.
See right there ... I'd rather lose ... it is less entertaining ... fan vs coach perspective
Rob Ryan. Imagine Rob Ryan as a Football Giants coach. Haha
I would love to have Rob Ryan on the staff of the NY Sportsball Giants.
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You know who worked with Wink this year in Baltimore and who doesn't have a job at the moment?
Rob Ryan. Imagine Rob Ryan as a Football Giants coach. Haha
I would love to have Rob Ryan on the staff of the NY Sportsball Giants.
Speculation is Ryan as LBer coach. He could excel there where he didn’t as a DC, imv
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Of defense. His aggressive style requires good pass rushers instinctive lbrs and excellent man cover cbs. I feel we lack in most of those departments. . Ravens defenders are far superior to ours. I hope he adjusts his style to the players available otherwise we are going to get picked apart with ease
This. We currently don't have the players needed to get to the QB. And the Ravens were last in league last year in passing yards against.
The Ravens secondary was decimated with injuries.
I think we need to look at the fact that this type of defense might actually make our selection Of Ellerson Smith a kind of Justin Tuck like Homerun. His skills fit the Edge look that Wink's defenses are known for.
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In comment 15598450 rasbutant said:
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Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
With the likes of Gardner Stingley or even Booth or McDuffie CB would NOT be a reach at 5. Consider also that his defense almost requires a near shutdown M2M corner on both sides to maximize it's effectiveness.
All of this is hypothetical of course, but depending on availability prior to either pick at #5 and #7, I'm thinking they go with a combo of an OL and Kyle Hamilton, depending on availability.
Hamilton and McKinney, young and cost effective while having the safety position secured with guys on their rookie deals who can both play.
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
I know. We could probably trade Bradberry, but if the Giants decide to cut him, they'd be looking for someone just like him. That is usually not the mark of a good decision.
This team has been the most mismanaged in the NFL. Every year we are up against the cap for last place finishes.
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that was not used to his KNOW STRENGTHS? Same with A. Jackson far as not being in more press man coverage. So let's demantle the ONLY real strength of a bad team?
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
I know. We could probably trade Bradberry, but if the Giants decide to cut him, they'd be looking for someone just like him. That is usually not the mark of a good decision.
The good decision here would be admitting the mistake and cutting your losses. If someone wants to trade for Bradberry that would be awesome.
Based on team cb dynamics he s/b Plan A subject to draft modification.
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that was not used to his KNOW STRENGTHS? Same with A. Jackson far as not being in more press man coverage. So let's demantle the ONLY real strength of a bad team?
"Compete for today and build for tomorrow." Fix the OL get some pass rushers and go from there ... So you break even at CB and still not have addressed Edge, OLB, IOL, RT or S/CB depth but you have burned a top 10 pick to break even ... that is not real progress.
I know. We could probably trade Bradberry, but if the Giants decide to cut him, they'd be looking for someone just like him. That is usually not the mark of a good decision.
Poor management led to mistakes. The cost of poor management led to this. It shouldn't ever happen. And bradberry is a good player and in a vacuum, the signing was fine. That's why we have a new gm and a new front office. They botched everything.
Based on team cb dynamics he s/b Plan A subject to draft modification.
He played the slot in college so he'd be a work in progress outside. It also begs the question, is it worth moving him outside if he's merely adequate at best but excels in the slot?
It becomes even less rocket science if the DC is agressive and is going to man up and press coverage as the base.
It becomes even less rocket science if the DC is agressive and is going to man up and press coverage as the base.
Succinct. Agree
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have no fear, just deliver the tools to him.
Graham would have been better if we had delivered the tools to him too.
Yes, but I despise being too much of a bend don't break defense and not sad to see the change.
Its pretty well known that Wink's aspiration is to eventually be a Head Coach. With that in mind the Giants should have a back up plan in place.
Sean Desai was the DC for the Bears and was let go this offseason. Desai had 2 interviews to be another teams DC- the Seahawks and the Giants.
Well Clint Hurtt (he was the Seahawks DL coach) has just been announced as a promotion to the Seahawks new DC position.
Word this morning is that the Seahawks were very impressed with Desai, and plan on offering him a job as a position coach to work under Hurtt.
I am hoping that the Giants will be do the same with Desai. He is young (38), but would be a great hire to learn from Wink and as a backup plan if Wink leaves in a year or 2.
The available DC jobs have pretty much dried up for 2022 for Sean Desai. His best move at this point is to accept a position coach job.
Keep on eye on what happens next with Desai.
Great post!
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In comment 15598450 rasbutant said:
Quote:
Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
With the likes of Gardner Stingley or even Booth or McDuffie CB would NOT be a reach at 5. Consider also that his defense almost requires a near shutdown M2M corner on both sides to maximize it's effectiveness.
Stop it. Booth and McDuffie would both be massive reaches at #5 overall. McDuffie would be a great pick at #36. He'd be a reach at any single digit pick, and questionable in the first round at all.
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In comment 15598453 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15598450 rasbutant said:
Quote:
Wink values CB more then EDGE...he says so in this video... Link - ( New Window )
There’s a ton of corners in this draft. We should not reach for one at 5 or 7.
With the likes of Gardner Stingley or even Booth or McDuffie CB would NOT be a reach at 5. Consider also that his defense almost requires a near shutdown M2M corner on both sides to maximize it's effectiveness.
Stop it. Booth and McDuffie would both be massive reaches at #5 overall. McDuffie would be a great pick at #36. He'd be a reach at any single digit pick, and questionable in the first round at all.
Actually, let me walk that back. My fury about McDuffy overcame me - Booth would be fine anywhere outside of the top 10 (as would Gardner).
But I maintain that McDuffie at #5 would make me pine for DG.
So our DC isn't even real cheese, he's like processed cheese product