Randle was terrific last year, nobody can argue that. Still, when defenses clamp down its abundantly clear he is not a primary facilitator. Not only is he inefficient (and his efficiency has gone from below average to brutal) but he lacks the on court composure when things get tough often losing his cool leading to techs, more inefficiency and effort that is painful to watch. I don't know where we go from here because the Knicks are generally allergic to having true lead guards on their roster. Its hard to imagine this team looking any different next year and that is a shame given the obvious improvement of RJB, IQ and promise of Grimes, Sims, Deuce. I haven't even mentioned Obi because blocking him from a decent amount of time is another Randle caused problem.
He wasn’t great in the games that he started when Randle was out with Covid, hopefully he puts up a better audition tonight. I wish Thibs would start Quickley as well, I like Toppin’s chances of having a good game with IQ at the point over Burks.
It was mentioned on the other thread but is a Westbrook trade in the cards this offseason? Not for Westbrook the player but to get off the Randle and Fournier contracts. It all depends what Randles market is and if they have long term plans for him.
But would you a future lakers 1st ( ideally 2) and Russ for Fournier and Randle? I might have to think about that. Even if you buy out Russ.
Yeah Russ is getting a lot of chatter in the Knicks Twitter world.
There is no obvious improvement. There really isn't any improvement at all. He's averaging more points because he's taking more shots. Same inefficient player he's always been. Shot 44% last year, shooting 41% this year. 40% on 3s last year, 35% this year. 75% at the line last year, 71% this year. PER of 13.4 last year, 13.7 this year.
You guys want so badly to believe in Barrett because there isn't much else for the Knicks to hang their hat on, but he simply isn't the player you want him to be.
His first 20 to 30 games were bad which brings down his averages
Since Jan 1, he's shot 40% or worse in a game 14 times (in 31 games).
He has managed to sprinkle in some good games but he's a below average shooter way too often. And yet, we have people here willing to just hand him the full max.
RE: His first 20 to 30 games were bad which brings down his averages
is on his way to being a good player, not a great one.
We go round and round with the young guys on this team. Last season Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox and Dennis Smith, Jr. - three guys who really don't belong in the NBA - were part of our "young core." Obi looked lost, RJ, Quickley and Mitch were OK.
At the very least we've elevated from terrible young talent to decent young talent by subtracting three nobodies and adding three decent rookies, plus Reddish depending on how you feel about him. Obi's looked a little better, IQ is salvaging his sophomore year with a strong finish We'll have a lottery pick this year that we didn't anticipate, plus Rokas showing some promise overseas. What can I tell ya? Hope for the best.
We go round and round with the young guys on this team. Last season Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox and Dennis Smith, Jr. - three guys who really don't belong in the NBA - were part of our "young core."
but his growth has not been linear and likely (hopefully) isn't finished. He's still a young player but I think he's shown enough to remain realistically hopeful that RJB can reach stardom one day soon.
That said, i'd move him for a ready made super star. Knicks probably won't which is why they are the Knicks. Rose seems gun shy but that's another topic.
that would've gotten us Dragic's expiring and a first rounder - reportedly the Knicks were holding out for an extra second round pick or two and things fell apart. Not sure what our obsession is with second rounders - we already have a million of them.
but his growth has not been linear and likely (hopefully) isn't finished. He's still a young player but I think he's shown enough to remain realistically hopeful that RJB can reach stardom one day soon.
That said, i'd move him for a ready made super star. Knicks probably won't which is why they are the Knicks. Rose seems gun shy but that's another topic.
I dont think you move him for a star, you bring in a star to pair with him, you bring in Mitchell to play with Rj
on what the Knicks can do at PG this summer in FA or trade route. Nothing earth shattering, the usual suspects were mentioned.
I almost believe that the Knicks won't trade for or sign a legit PG this summer even though that very notion is beyond crazy.
Wish we could just sell off the entire roster for Mitchell and go from there. I'd trade everything for him, use the leftover money for more vets in FA and call it a day. Knicks and the PG - ( New Window )
but his growth has not been linear and likely (hopefully) isn't finished. He's still a young player but I think he's shown enough to remain realistically hopeful that RJB can reach stardom one day soon.
That said, i'd move him for a ready made super star. Knicks probably won't which is why they are the Knicks. Rose seems gun shy but that's another topic.
I dont think you move him for a star, you bring in a star to pair with him, you bring in Mitchell to play with Rj
In a perfect world absolutely. I just don't know if that world exists for the Knicks. The more I see these off-seasons come and go the more I think they will have to trade everything we don't want to trade, for that transcendent talent. But yes I'd love to keep RJ and jettison everyone else.
on what the Knicks can do at PG this summer in FA or trade route. Nothing earth shattering, the usual suspects were mentioned.
I almost believe that the Knicks won't trade for or sign a legit PG this summer even though that very notion is beyond crazy.
Wish we could just sell off the entire roster for Mitchell and go from there. I'd trade everything for him, use the leftover money for more vets in FA and call it a day. Knicks and the PG - ( New Window )
I think they get Brunson, whether they trade their expirings or a sign and trade of Mitch for Brunson
misses the fact that he added a drive game to his play. His dishing is better. And he's just a much more versatile offensive player. Give him time and the efficiency will improve and he'll be a multifaceted offensive player.
Not to mention he's a good defender and a high effort player. He does things the right way. He could be the Jeter of this team. Not the best player, but an all star player and a leader.
needed 3-4-5 years to reach their peak. Jimmy Butler. Kawhi Leonard. Zack Lavine. The list goes on. This doesn't mean that RJB will be a mega star one day but his path to date mimics some of the greats and he's got qualities that inspire a belief that the best is yet to come.
is averaging 23.8 points, 5.9 rebounds, 3.6 assists and shooting 41.9% from the field, 37.7% from 3, and 71.7% at the line on 7.1 attempts.
Compare that to the first half of the year, in 29 games he was averaging 15 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists on 40% FG, 32.5% from 3 and 70.2% at the line on only 3.6 attempts.
He's basically improved in every area over the second half of the year. Even the free throws have shown signs recently of getting better, hopefully he can get that up to 75% next season. If he could keep up the pace he's been on and puts up 24-6-4 on 42/38/75 splits I think we would all be thrilled, and he would absolutely be in the all-star conversation.
needed 3-4-5 years to reach their peak. Jimmy Butler. Kawhi Leonard. Zack Lavine. The list goes on. This doesn't mean that RJB will be a mega star one day but his path to date mimics some of the greats and he's got qualities that inspire a belief that the best is yet to come.
Also Giannis and Derozan come to mind as guys who took about 4 years to really blow up.
Is RJ on that level, probably not. But no reason he can't have a Derozan like career.
RE: Barrett since January 1, a 31 game sample size
is averaging 23.8 points, 5.9 rebounds, 3.6 assists and shooting 41.9% from the field, 37.7% from 3, and 71.7% at the line on 7.1 attempts.
Compare that to the first half of the year, in 29 games he was averaging 15 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists on 40% FG, 32.5% from 3 and 70.2% at the line on only 3.6 attempts.
He's basically improved in every area over the second half of the year. Even the free throws have shown signs recently of getting better, hopefully he can get that up to 75% next season. If he could keep up the pace he's been on and puts up 24-6-4 on 42/38/75 splits I think we would all be thrilled, and he would absolutely be in the all-star conversation.
I hope he can get to at least a 45% FG, 38% from 3 and 80% from the line player by next year.
but if you read between the lines he indicates RJ and Mitch are among them. Seems pretty clear Fournier can't stand him either, and Kemba's a safe bet, too. All the other starters - makes sense.
I wonder if that could be a match in a Brunson sign-and-trade? They seem to like former Knicks.
Problem is you cant do randle for Brunson straight up even if you give Brunson 20 million a year, only half of his deal counts toward the money in a trade
You would think Randle would be happy with other guys starting, and he just has to worry about rebounding and getting assists and playing off ither players instead of iso all the time..
Instead it almost looks like he gets mad when other guys have it going, its just weird..
Something has to be going on off the court, there are days he looks happy, playing hard and then the next he looks miserable
The Garden/NYC crowd is part of it, whatever it is.
The Hawks-who have won NOTHING-were saying that the regular season is boring & they just wanted to FF to the playoffs. Now they'd be playing Charlotte in the 9-10 play in game.
for yelling at Rj to pass the ball, meanwhile he was calling for iso Burks down the stretch who proceeded to dribble the entire shotclock..I mean come on what are we doing?
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
When asked if having Taj Gibson in for Obi Toppin throughout the 4th was for defensive purposes, Tom Thibodeau concurred and cited defensive rotations in his answer. He also said NYK wanted to do more switching against ATL in 4th and cited rim/paint protection
The Hawks killed you from 3, not at the rim, what is the point of Mitchell Robinson then? All you did was clog the paint offensively and made your tram slower footed defensively
includes Mitch, Noel, Taj and Sims. We’re cornering the market on old-school bigs.
It was obvious again last night how badly this team needs a center that can stretch the floor. Watching RJ repeatedly get to the rim only to be met by the brick wall of Capela or Okongwu was frustrating. I know they only had 2 blocks, but RJ forced up a lot of bad shots at the rim trying to shoot over them. He also needs to learn to kick the ball out in those situations rather than throw up a prayer hoping to get bailed out by the officials.
a team with a center who is just a rebounder, defender and limited offensive game..
I really dont want to give Mitch 12 to 15 million a year, 10 or 11, no problem..
If you are building with Rj, first off you need to find another legit scorer next to him, preferably someone who can shoot and play off Rj whrn Rj has the ball..
second you need shooters around him, guys who can spread the floor and guys who dont demand isos for themselves. Guys willing to play defense and get 5 to 7 shots a game..
Third if you are going to keep Mitch, the guy playing the 4 needs to be a shooter or a guy like Obi who the defender always needs to account for because you lose him, he is going back door on you..
Kemba's obviously a goner and possibly Mitch too, but everyone else is under contract through at least next season - plus Cam has been added to the mix and there's a lottery pick and (possibly) Rokas still to come. I think there's an option on Taj but if Thibs is staying....
This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
but I'm definitely a little concerned about this summer. Lot of BIG decisions - Thibs, Randle, RJ, Mitch, 10th pick, possible Brunson pursuit, etc. - and we have a pretty inexperienced front office making these calls (or experienced but mediocre, in Scott Perry's case). Hopefully Gersson Rosas is given a say and he talks some sense into people.
This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Nothing?
Just my opinion but yes little to nothing. I think most GMs would have fared better given the cap space and picks Leon Rose had the last 2 seasons.
I'm not going to relitigate each move but I'm still waiting for a move from this front office to truly impress me.
outside of picking at the end of the draft. They've been able to find some nice end of the rotation players, but they whiffed on Obi, their FA was not good and it feels like they're more interested in compiling 2nd rounders than taking a swing.
At some point they have to be aggressive and try to make a move instead of treading water with a sub-par roster that overachieved last year and make moves.
This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Nothing?
Just my opinion but yes little to nothing. I think most GMs would have fared better given the cap space and picks Leon Rose had the last 2 seasons.
I'm not going to relitigate each move but I'm still waiting for a move from this front office to truly impress me.
I think I would agree that Rose hasn't done anything to show that he knows how to build a winning team. Pretty much all he's shown at this point is that he knows how to not take the big risk, trying to keep his options open until a star falls into his lap. He's like a poker player that just folds every hand waiting until he gets dealt pocket aces.
I dont want them to be aggressive and sell out for an aging Lillard or Beal.
Zion situation has to play itself out. Maybe Mitchell. Who else is out there to be had realistically without re-enactment of the Melo trade that carpet bombed the roster? One team wanting to be aggressive doesn't make a trade.
This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Nothing?
Just my opinion but yes little to nothing. I think most GMs would have fared better given the cap space and picks Leon Rose had the last 2 seasons.
I'm not going to relitigate each move but I'm still waiting for a move from this front office to truly impress me.
This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Nothing?
Just my opinion but yes little to nothing. I think most GMs would have fared better given the cap space and picks Leon Rose had the last 2 seasons.
I'm not going to relitigate each move but I'm still waiting for a move from this front office to truly impress me.
derrick rose trade?
Good trade for sure. But that driving force had to be Thibs. And even if it wasn't, that's the most impressive move in 2 years flush with cap space and picks?
He's made a lot more bad moves than good moves. I personally don't think that's debatable.
If i was an NBA player i would hate playing for Thibs, not because he is tough coach but becauae he is literally flapping his arms, screaming and cursing at you after every single mistake..
for 3s in a season tonight. He's top 5 in the league for 3s made and they said his % is 40%. He has defensive issues but on a night like tonight you can see him fitting into a role. What's bring exposed is how much Randle kills the ball movement and thus the joy of the sport.
for 3s in a season tonight. He's top 5 in the league for 3s made and they said his % is 40%. He has defensive issues but on a night like tonight you can see him fitting into a role. What's bring exposed is how much Randle kills the ball movement and thus the joy of the sport.
Great points. The numbers don't lie and neither does the eye test. They were moving tonight.
be in the starting lineup. They should play the same role being the spotup/screen/curl shooter with one of them on the court all the time. Only time they should be on at the same time is on a small ball 3 point lineup with RJ at the 4 and them at the 2 and 3.
for 3s in a season tonight. He's top 5 in the league for 3s made and they said his % is 40%. He has defensive issues but on a night like tonight you can see him fitting into a role. What's bring exposed is how much Randle kills the ball movement and thus the joy of the sport.
He's fit for a modern NBA offense that runs. Whatever the Knicks try to do that Thibs thinks is offense actually sucks the value out of Fournier. He's not a half-court offense player.
I think they got what they paid for with Fournier.
Agree. I also don't have a problem with Taj as the backup 5/4, but obviously his sell-by date is approaching. We need another big.
I don't mind Taj either but in a limited specialized role. A backup big that's a good shooter in the midrange. Use him to pull the opponents defensive big away from the rim and soften the inside.
RE: I think they got what they paid for with Fournier.
during a Heat timeout - Udonis Haslem threatening to kick Butler’s ass. That’s a threat you take seriously.
Also, full strength Brooklyn loses to Ja-less Memphis.
There is video where you can see Spoelstra say to Butler "what you think i am going to fight you?"..Spoelstra was pissed he was screaming at Butler, threw his clipboard down..
Yeah I’ve been watching some other angles of it on Twitter.
Rj another 30 point game, effecient and just in total control offensively. I thought he would be a little tired from last night but the ball movement was so good it didnt seem like he didnt have to work to hard to get that 30..
Obi finally getting over 20 minutes and is contributing, amazing. Only 2nd time in Obi's career he pkayed over 28 minutes, the 8th overall pick, says a lot. 18 11 and 6 l, effecient, a usage of 11, effected the game without the ball. Even if he is not a great 3 point shooter you always have to put a body on him, if he goes back door on you its over, just throw it up..If he ever got to 35% from 3 man hed be a heck of a player.
Congrats to Fournier, his stats are actually pretty good on the year, especially from 3, he is a good player in the right role. I think part of our hate for Fournier is we like Grimes and Mcbride and want them to get minutes, but Fournier is a good player and wasmt a bad signing, i think in combination with Kemba it was a bad signing.
Burks another effecient game without Randle,hmm..He is not a point guard we all know that and i think him being forced to play point has made me hate him and want him benched but he is a useful and good player in the right role..He is a scorer and should be used that way.
Quickley didnt shoot the best 10 points on 9 shots but had 5 rebounds and 7 assists, he is learning to play under control and effect the game in other ways besides scoring. Only 21 minutes, should of played more but he is evolving as a player.
Mcbride 9 points all on 3s which is nice to see. 2 boards and 1 assist and is always all over the place defensively. He just comes in and makes a positive impact whether he scores or not.
Sims got the start and was just effective, nothing crazy, but played his role, good game..
Gibson man if only he was 10 years younger, i cant grt excited with where the team is at and at 37 he is not part of the future but he played a good game, starting to hit that corner 3...
Grimes not a good shooting night, really didnt do much, wonder if the knee is still bothering him a little bit, his shots were short..
Thibs thank you for playing Obi over 30 minutes, thank you for going Rj at the 4 at times but you need to stop getting in players faces after 1 mistake. I dont think i see any other coach doing this after 1 mistake. If you did to everyone id have a little more respect for you but you dont. Benching Mcbride because Rozier his 2 tough shots from 3 with a hand in his face was ridiculous and then taking Grimes out because he helped when Burks got beat and then ran out to contest the 3 but it was made was even mkre ridiculous..
Thibs is a good coach with a bunch of lunchpale role players and 1 star to control the ball, he is not a coach for a bunch of young players who like run and move the ball and play fast.
Nice win last night and it was fun watching this group play together. I loved watching the 5 of McBride, Grimes, IQ, Gibson and Toppin. Would have been cool to see RJ play a small ball 4 with that lineup too. They definitely show promise. This offseason has major decisions though.
Randle- I think you have to cut bait. He's just too volatile and hard to build a young team around. I think he's still a good player, but its better to get out now then before its too late to get off that contract. You obviously want the most value but I would probably take "even" value just to move him this offseason.
RJ- Do you give him the max extension? I think you try to get him to take something less than the full max. You risk hurting the relationship but you still hold all the leverage with restricted free agency. But I would try to get him locked up with some compromise.
Robinson- the guy flashes big time but is just not consistent enough. I would be scared giving him a big deal too. I would also view centers as either elite ( true max guys) or go off MLE players, rookies or below. I don't think its wise to spend big on centers that aren't at the top. But maybe you get him a on team friendly deal- only a few teams this season have cap space.
his max is something like 5/180. That's crazy money for a guy who simply hasn't played well enough to justify that kind of financial commitment. John Collins got 5/125 from Atlanta. Bridges got 4/90. I think something in that range is fine.
his max is something like 5/180. That's crazy money for a guy who simply hasn't played well enough to justify that kind of financial commitment. John Collins got 5/125 from Atlanta. Bridges got 4/90. I think something in that range is fine.
think 5 for 140 to 150 range is fair
Giving undeserving players max contracts is how you send your team
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
his max is something like 5/180. That's crazy money for a guy who simply hasn't played well enough to justify that kind of financial commitment. John Collins got 5/125 from Atlanta. Bridges got 4/90. I think something in that range is fine.
RJ is 21 years old and averaging 24 points since January and has the most 30 point games under 21 years old.
He is on the cusp of being an All-star.
Pay that man his money
his max is something like 5/180. That's crazy money for a guy who simply hasn't played well enough to justify that kind of financial commitment. John Collins got 5/125 from Atlanta. Bridges got 4/90. I think something in that range is fine.
RJ is 21 years old and averaging 24 points since January and has the most 30 point games under 21 years old.
He is on the cusp of being an All-star.
Pay that man his money
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
I totally agree but will the Knicks have the risk tolerance to take on that stance? They will still have his restricted rights, but do they want to piss off their best young player by far? Barrett also has one of the most powerful agents in the sport. They should be able to keep him regardless, but there is risk involved in letting him get to RFA.
The cap is also expected to increase big time in a few years. Some projections having it being bumped up by 50 million by 2025 with the new tv deal.
RE: RE: Giving undeserving players max contracts is how you send your team
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
I totally agree but will the Knicks have the risk tolerance to take on that stance? They will still have his restricted rights, but do they want to piss off their best young player by far? Barrett also has one of the most powerful agents in the sport. They should be able to keep him regardless, but there is risk involved in letting him get to RFA.
The cap is also expected to increase big time in a few years. Some projections having it being bumped up by 50 million by 2025 with the new tv deal.
there are plenty of good young players that have taken non-max extensions. I don't see how it's an "insult" to RJ or anyone else to say:
"we don't think you're worth $180 million. Please try to get by on $120 million", lol.
see no realistic path for the Knicks to be a "good" NBA team with RJ and Randle being in the same lineup... as such... bye Julius.
Who might be a trade partner, though?
I continue to believe the Blazers are the most obvious trade partner.
Lillard still apparently wants to stay there. He'd 32 in July, the Blazers are likely going to want to add "proven" NBA talent to pair with him vs. "upside"
Lillard/Randle/Simons may not be "a big 3" but that's a good trio to build around near term.
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
I totally agree but will the Knicks have the risk tolerance to take on that stance? They will still have his restricted rights, but do they want to piss off their best young player by far? Barrett also has one of the most powerful agents in the sport. They should be able to keep him regardless, but there is risk involved in letting him get to RFA.
The cap is also expected to increase big time in a few years. Some projections having it being bumped up by 50 million by 2025 with the new tv deal.
there are plenty of good young players that have taken non-max extensions. I don't see how it's an "insult" to RJ or anyone else to say:
"we don't think you're worth $180 million. Please try to get by on $120 million", lol.
That's not how the NBA works though. And the Knicks are now going to draw a hard line with Barrett after the contracts they gave out last summer? He's going to ask for the max and either get it or get close to it one way or the other.
I'd be all over Zion. But what would New Orleans even want? More picks? How many times can that franchise rebuild with more picks? Just a guess, but I would think they would want some young players in return.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Giving undeserving players max contracts is how you send your team
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
I totally agree but will the Knicks have the risk tolerance to take on that stance? They will still have his restricted rights, but do they want to piss off their best young player by far? Barrett also has one of the most powerful agents in the sport. They should be able to keep him regardless, but there is risk involved in letting him get to RFA.
The cap is also expected to increase big time in a few years. Some projections having it being bumped up by 50 million by 2025 with the new tv deal.
there are plenty of good young players that have taken non-max extensions. I don't see how it's an "insult" to RJ or anyone else to say:
"we don't think you're worth $180 million. Please try to get by on $120 million", lol.
That's not how the NBA works though. And the Knicks are now going to draw a hard line with Barrett after the contracts they gave out last summer? He's going to ask for the max and either get it or get close to it one way or the other.
that is how the NBA has been working. Again, several good young players have gotten less or much less than the max (JJJ, Bridges, Collins, OG). These are players who are not only out-performing RJ, they're doing it on winning teams.
If Rose just hands him the max it will be a dumb move IMO.
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
·
1m
“I want to do it here,but there also comes a point that you also know that it becomes a business.And if you feel like the stars aren't aligned with that,then everybody's going to do what's best for them,regardless of what the money is.”
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
·
1m
“I want to do it here,but there also comes a point that you also know that it becomes a business.And if you feel like the stars aren't aligned with that,then everybody's going to do what's best for them,regardless of what the money is.”
apparently Aller wanted the Knicks to go youth and Thibs laughed and mocked Aller..
How legit was the recent story about Thibs being here next year? Have to think if the kids show up the vets like they've been doing Thibs has to be at the end of his rope.
apparently Aller wanted the Knicks to go youth and Thibs laughed and mocked Aller..
How legit was the recent story about Thibs being here next year? Have to think if the kids show up the vets like they've been doing Thibs has to be at the end of his rope.
There needs to be a sitdown with Rose, Wes, and Aller with Thibs and basically tell him we are going with the youth and if you dont like it you can leavue but we are building around them..
Blatantly not playing Reddish because he didnt like the trade is baby shit..
2) I still can't believe Thibs is going to be here next season. I don't know how the FO could sell that to the fanbase.
3) I love his game, but man...Butler causes drama wherever he goes? Chicago...whose team is it? His or Rose? MN? That infamous practice the same day NBA Shoot Around is in town to interview him...76ers, implying that Simmons isn't serious (thought he was right on Ben). And now last night? Good grief.
4) Little interest in Zion unless we're getting him in a very friendly deal. His lower body injuries scare the hell out of me.
5) I'll believe Beal wants to be dealt when he comes out & asks for a trade.
I know you said you’ve become numb to Giant losses after a decade of struggles. Are you still living and dying and losing sleep over Knick games? I’d have to imagine it has waned in the last 20 years.
especially if he remains out and the team looks like they did the past couple of nights offensively, especially Obi..Just look at how effecient they were last night its amazing..
With Thibs if he agreed to a youth movement i would be fine because you know the team is going to play hard, play defense and at least we know they would bring it everynight..but if he is going to keep favoring vets over the kids we dont need him here, its clear the kids have surpassed the vets on this team and lets be real do we need vets? next year Rj 4th year, reddish 4th year, Obi 3rd year, quick 3rd, Grimes, grimes, mcbride 2nd and if Mitch came back his 5th...Bring back Fournier or Rose with them you got enough veteran players..
It is going to be very interesting to see what the Pelicans are looking for in a trade if they do decide to move Zion. With McCollum and Ingram already on the roster it could make sense for them to seek an established player that helps push them into the playoffs rather than starting over again with all youth.
Could they be enticed by Randle? They used Zion in more of a point forward role last year, Randle could definitely fill that role for them if that’s what they’re looking to continue to do. Perhaps you build a package around Randle, and multiple firsts for Zion and Nance’s expiring.
I know you said you’ve become numb to Giant losses after a decade of struggles. Are you still living and dying and losing sleep over Knick games? I’d have to imagine it has waned in the last 20 years.
Sean, no. I still watch 90% of Knicks games-either live or on DVR-but I've definitely been beaten down watching them since the early '00s. I had a ton of optimism going into this season, but that quickly evaporated. The franchise just can't seem to catch a break. Also, throw in Dolan....who is a complete clown who is so unlikable. Like the Giants, I still follow them religiously-I'm a member on Posting and Toasting-but I'm definitely in a 'Wait & see' mode when it comes to screaming about them again.
That Thibs/Aller info is from Yaron Weitzman, not Bondy.
It’s not surprising. Didn’t Wes supposedly go to Dolan to complain about Thibs? Nothing better than the HC and front office being on two completely pages. So hey, let’s bring everyone back next season! Typical Knicks
It’s not surprising. Didn’t Wes supposedly go to Dolan to complain about Thibs? Nothing better than the HC and front office being on two completely pages. So hey, let’s bring everyone back next season! Typical Knicks
I dont think they are bringing everyone back, i would be stunned jf Randle is back..
and if Thibs is back they are going to force his hand and get rid if some of these vets..
He is a head case and everyone knows it, I think the Knicks would need to take back some garbage.
Yes, and/or attach pick(s).
Randle's max 15% trade kicker, which applies to his entire four-year remaining contract balance, doesn't help. Knicks/Dolan would take the cash hit, with the cap consequence being borne by the acquiring team.
It's not going to be easy for this front office to face up to what is going to be needed to move Randle and the contract they handed him.
In other news, TOR beats CLE to tie for the sixth seed. Looking at schedules, I see TOR taking that seed, knocking CLE into the 7-8 game with BKN.
BKN takes that and then has a first round war with the #2 seed.
He is a head case and everyone knows it, I think the Knicks would need to take back some garbage.
Yes, and/or attach pick(s).
Randle's max 15% trade kicker, which applies to his entire four-year remaining contract balance, doesn't help. Knicks/Dolan would take the cash hit, with the cap consequence being borne by the acquiring team.
It's not going to be easy for this front office to face up to what is going to be needed to move Randle and the contract they handed him.
In other news, TOR beats CLE to tie for the sixth seed. Looking at schedules, I see TOR taking that seed, knocking CLE into the 7-8 game with BKN.
BKN takes that and then has a first round war with the #2 seed.
If you trade Randle on draft night there is no 15%trade kicker..
Also his likely kncentives in his new ckntract will become unlikely at the start of the new year, his cap hit would then only be 23 million
If you trade Randle on draft night there is no 15%trade kicker..
You have a reference or a specific knowledge of Randle's contract terms to support that?
Yeah its pretty simple, his new contract that has the trade kicker doesnt kick in until the new league year...If traded at the drsft its based om his current deal and becauae he is not becoming a free agent he is tradeable at the deadline
I’d be scared to death of taking him #1 overall. I’d go Smith or Ivey - Banchero is debatable.
If Chet Holmgren can't add some muscle, he'll be a speed bump in the NBA.
Banchero has the ability but something just seems missing with that guy, he just doesn't really play with much fire. In our two games against Duke, Jayden Gardner bullied him around despite giving up 5 inches to him.
There is not a chance in the world I'd bet against a 19 year old 7 footer getting thicker. Everybody grows. They said the same thing about Porzingis and he developed an NBA body as well.
Lou Williams OUT
Bogdan Bogdanovic Day-to-Day
Nerlens Noel OUT
What is this 16? What's going on?
@NY_KnicksPR
·
20m
Julius Randle (sore right quadriceps tendon) is out for tonight’s game against Atlanta.
Do we really need to keep watching Alec fucking Burks get minutes over him?
Taj time! LOL
But would you a future lakers 1st ( ideally 2) and Russ for Fournier and Randle? I might have to think about that. Even if you buy out Russ.
You guys want so badly to believe in Barrett because there isn't much else for the Knicks to hang their hat on, but he simply isn't the player you want him to be.
I woukd of done it this deadline and i like Fournier in the right role..
Getting Russ wouldnt stop me from gettinf Brunson either, you could always buy him out
Since Jan 1, he's shot 40% or worse in a game 14 times (in 31 games).
He has managed to sprinkle in some good games but he's a below average shooter way too often. And yet, we have people here willing to just hand him the full max.
His splits should tell that story.
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He got sick, than got covid and since coming back he has been a different player..anyone can see that
His splits should tell that story.
most of his percentages went up, assists per game went up, ppg went up..
He has had a few bad games in march
We go round and round with the young guys on this team. Last season Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox and Dennis Smith, Jr. - three guys who really don't belong in the NBA - were part of our "young core." Obi looked lost, RJ, Quickley and Mitch were OK.
At the very least we've elevated from terrible young talent to decent young talent by subtracting three nobodies and adding three decent rookies, plus Reddish depending on how you feel about him. Obi's looked a little better, IQ is salvaging his sophomore year with a strong finish We'll have a lottery pick this year that we didn't anticipate, plus Rokas showing some promise overseas. What can I tell ya? Hope for the best.
We go round and round with the young guys on this team. Last season Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox and Dennis Smith, Jr. - three guys who really don't belong in the NBA - were part of our "young core."
No one thought those 3 guys were worth a shit.
That said, i'd move him for a ready made super star. Knicks probably won't which is why they are the Knicks. Rose seems gun shy but that's another topic.
No kidding, but they were still on the roster of a supposedly rebuilding team.
That said, i'd move him for a ready made super star. Knicks probably won't which is why they are the Knicks. Rose seems gun shy but that's another topic.
I dont think you move him for a star, you bring in a star to pair with him, you bring in Mitchell to play with Rj
I almost believe that the Knicks won't trade for or sign a legit PG this summer even though that very notion is beyond crazy.
Wish we could just sell off the entire roster for Mitchell and go from there. I'd trade everything for him, use the leftover money for more vets in FA and call it a day.
Knicks and the PG - ( New Window )
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but his growth has not been linear and likely (hopefully) isn't finished. He's still a young player but I think he's shown enough to remain realistically hopeful that RJB can reach stardom one day soon.
That said, i'd move him for a ready made super star. Knicks probably won't which is why they are the Knicks. Rose seems gun shy but that's another topic.
I dont think you move him for a star, you bring in a star to pair with him, you bring in Mitchell to play with Rj
In a perfect world absolutely. I just don't know if that world exists for the Knicks. The more I see these off-seasons come and go the more I think they will have to trade everything we don't want to trade, for that transcendent talent. But yes I'd love to keep RJ and jettison everyone else.
I almost believe that the Knicks won't trade for or sign a legit PG this summer even though that very notion is beyond crazy.
Wish we could just sell off the entire roster for Mitchell and go from there. I'd trade everything for him, use the leftover money for more vets in FA and call it a day. Knicks and the PG - ( New Window )
I think they get Brunson, whether they trade their expirings or a sign and trade of Mitch for Brunson
Not to mention he's a good defender and a high effort player. He does things the right way. He could be the Jeter of this team. Not the best player, but an all star player and a leader.
Compare that to the first half of the year, in 29 games he was averaging 15 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists on 40% FG, 32.5% from 3 and 70.2% at the line on only 3.6 attempts.
He's basically improved in every area over the second half of the year. Even the free throws have shown signs recently of getting better, hopefully he can get that up to 75% next season. If he could keep up the pace he's been on and puts up 24-6-4 on 42/38/75 splits I think we would all be thrilled, and he would absolutely be in the all-star conversation.
Also Giannis and Derozan come to mind as guys who took about 4 years to really blow up.
Is RJ on that level, probably not. But no reason he can't have a Derozan like career.
Compare that to the first half of the year, in 29 games he was averaging 15 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists on 40% FG, 32.5% from 3 and 70.2% at the line on only 3.6 attempts.
He's basically improved in every area over the second half of the year. Even the free throws have shown signs recently of getting better, hopefully he can get that up to 75% next season. If he could keep up the pace he's been on and puts up 24-6-4 on 42/38/75 splits I think we would all be thrilled, and he would absolutely be in the all-star conversation.
I hope he can get to at least a 45% FG, 38% from 3 and 80% from the line player by next year.
You can see it, look how much fun the kids have when they play together..
Problem is you cant do randle for Brunson straight up even if you give Brunson 20 million a year, only half of his deal counts toward the money in a trade
I dont think they are better without Randle but i dknt think they are much worse..
Instead it almost looks like he gets mad when other guys have it going, its just weird..
Something has to be going on off the court, there are days he looks happy, playing hard and then the next he looks miserable
Kind of like Westbrook in LA, i dont think Westbrook just sucks all of sudden, i think the fit is horrible
Randle-like a lot of other guys who come to NYC-don't get it: You're never going to win a war vs. the fans. It's you vs. millions.
Didn’t hustle back on d, confused on switches. Oofa.
I actually thought we might go small and start IQ/Fournier/Burks/RJ/Mitch - RJ can handle Gallo at the four. Oh well.
And obviously the shot is falling.
Imagine how insane Milwaukee would be if he accepted their initial offer?
was he restricted?
I just remeber all the complications with him
Yup maybe again in a couple of years but right now its to average to bad teams
Quick, Mcbride, Grimes, Rj, Mitch...Do it please
Not even that, why not go small against a team that spreads you out, has no bigs and your switching everything?
Why not close with iq, Burks,Grimes,Rj and Mitch?
What the hell was the point of playing Gibson?
Burks deserved to close tonight, he played a good game scoring wise..
I just cant 12 games under 500 and Gibson is playing 20 minutes and closing the game over all the kids..
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And Taj plays the whole 4th quarter instead of Obi when the season is over. Just Ponderous Thibs. Fucking ponderous.
Not even that, why not go small against a team that spreads you out, has no bigs and your switching everything?
Why not close with iq, Burks,Grimes,Rj and Mitch?
What the hell was the point of playing Gibson?
This is spot on. Zero point of playing Gibson at this point. His defense has fallen off a cliff since last season- he’s cooked.
Young and Boggie absolutely torched them tonight. What a shitty year from the Knicks.
Randle, fournier, burks and Taj..
I think they need some rest
Different game, same story
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
When asked if having Taj Gibson in for Obi Toppin throughout the 4th was for defensive purposes, Tom Thibodeau concurred and cited defensive rotations in his answer. He also said NYK wanted to do more switching against ATL in 4th and cited rim/paint protection
The Hawks killed you from 3, not at the rim, what is the point of Mitchell Robinson then? All you did was clog the paint offensively and made your tram slower footed defensively
There were stretches where RJ looked great but he faltered down the stretch. IQ played well. McBride didn't play enough. Same ole same ole.
I really dont want him here if the Knicka go young and somehow get a top 5 pick..
I dont want that pick playing 10 minutes a game because he has to "earn his minutes" load of crap
Leon’s proven to be a bit conservative so far. That’s all I got.
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How can Thibs' job be safe?
Leon’s proven to be a bit conservative so far. That’s all I got.
Have to wonder if he gets pressure from others in the front office or even some of the players
It was obvious again last night how badly this team needs a center that can stretch the floor. Watching RJ repeatedly get to the rim only to be met by the brick wall of Capela or Okongwu was frustrating. I know they only had 2 blocks, but RJ forced up a lot of bad shots at the rim trying to shoot over them. He also needs to learn to kick the ball out in those situations rather than throw up a prayer hoping to get bailed out by the officials.
Reminds me of when Porzingis posted the picture of him running after Knicks said he wasnt
I really dont want to give Mitch 12 to 15 million a year, 10 or 11, no problem..
If you are building with Rj, first off you need to find another legit scorer next to him, preferably someone who can shoot and play off Rj whrn Rj has the ball..
second you need shooters around him, guys who can spread the floor and guys who dont demand isos for themselves. Guys willing to play defense and get 5 to 7 shots a game..
Third if you are going to keep Mitch, the guy playing the 4 needs to be a shooter or a guy like Obi who the defender always needs to account for because you lose him, he is going back door on you..
And those thinking RJ hasn't progressed simply doesn't watch enough Knicks games.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Nothing?
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This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Nothing?
Just my opinion but yes little to nothing. I think most GMs would have fared better given the cap space and picks Leon Rose had the last 2 seasons.
I'm not going to relitigate each move but I'm still waiting for a move from this front office to truly impress me.
At some point they have to be aggressive and try to make a move instead of treading water with a sub-par roster that overachieved last year and make moves.
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In comment 15642407 TyreeHelmet said:
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This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Nothing?
Just my opinion but yes little to nothing. I think most GMs would have fared better given the cap space and picks Leon Rose had the last 2 seasons.
I'm not going to relitigate each move but I'm still waiting for a move from this front office to truly impress me.
I think I would agree that Rose hasn't done anything to show that he knows how to build a winning team. Pretty much all he's shown at this point is that he knows how to not take the big risk, trying to keep his options open until a star falls into his lap. He's like a poker player that just folds every hand waiting until he gets dealt pocket aces.
Zion situation has to play itself out. Maybe Mitchell. Who else is out there to be had realistically without re-enactment of the Melo trade that carpet bombed the roster? One team wanting to be aggressive doesn't make a trade.
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In comment 15642407 TyreeHelmet said:
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This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Nothing?
Just my opinion but yes little to nothing. I think most GMs would have fared better given the cap space and picks Leon Rose had the last 2 seasons.
I'm not going to relitigate each move but I'm still waiting for a move from this front office to truly impress me.
derrick rose trade?
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In comment 15642410 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15642407 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
This roster has been so poorly constructed its actually impressive how little flack this front office is taking. Outside of IQ and Grimes which can be debated how good those picks really are, their moves have not only been not helpful, they have actually hurt the Knicks this season and moving forward.
Maybe they turn it around this offseason but nothing Leon Rose has done the last 2 seasons has given me any hope they know how to build a good NBA team.
Lets hope they get lucky in the lottery. They need it.
Nothing?
Just my opinion but yes little to nothing. I think most GMs would have fared better given the cap space and picks Leon Rose had the last 2 seasons.
I'm not going to relitigate each move but I'm still waiting for a move from this front office to truly impress me.
derrick rose trade?
Good trade for sure. But that driving force had to be Thibs. And even if it wasn't, that's the most impressive move in 2 years flush with cap space and picks?
He's made a lot more bad moves than good moves. I personally don't think that's debatable.
Signing burks, Noel to 1 year deals before last year?..
Drafting Quick and Grimes looks good..
I am not saying Rose has done a great job, i am just waiting for his big move before i judge him..This is a big offseason for me
Looking OK so far.
you dont have Randle literally posting up every play stopping the team from moving the ball
If i was an NBA player i would hate playing for Thibs, not because he is tough coach but becauae he is literally flapping his arms, screaming and cursing at you after every single mistake..
He will, to start the 4th
I hate that he spent most of this year on the bench for no good reason instead of helping the team. It's so upsetting.
He also took out Mcbride because Rozier hit 2 tough 3s over mcbride
Rj another 30 piece..
Mcbride 9 points 2 rebounds and an assist..
Quickey 10 point 5 boards and 7 assists..
Sims 10 points 3 boards..
Yeah the kids couldnt of helped us this year and literally the second any of these kids make a mistake Thibs gets in their face and takes them out..
Thibs hates it, you can tell, the secind he gets an opourtunity to slow down the gake by bringing in Burks, Fournier or Gibson, he does it
26 minutes for Sims, 22 for Taj.
With them being the only bigs, I have no problem with that.
What RJ, Sims, Toppin, Quickley and Grimes can do together.
Shutdown Randle.
Great points. The numbers don't lie and neither does the eye test. They were moving tonight.
Agree. I also don't have a problem with Taj as the backup 5/4, but obviously his sell-by date is approaching. We need another big.
He's fit for a modern NBA offense that runs. Whatever the Knicks try to do that Thibs thinks is offense actually sucks the value out of Fournier. He's not a half-court offense player.
Agree. I also don't have a problem with Taj as the backup 5/4, but obviously his sell-by date is approaching. We need another big.
I don't mind Taj either but in a limited specialized role. A backup big that's a good shooter in the midrange. Use him to pull the opponents defensive big away from the rim and soften the inside.
Well put.
Also, full strength Brooklyn loses to Ja-less Memphis.
Also, full strength Brooklyn loses to Ja-less Memphis.
There is video where you can see Spoelstra say to Butler "what you think i am going to fight you?"..Spoelstra was pissed he was screaming at Butler, threw his clipboard down..
amazing coacb, if he ever was attainable id give uo whatever needed to get him
Obi finally getting over 20 minutes and is contributing, amazing. Only 2nd time in Obi's career he pkayed over 28 minutes, the 8th overall pick, says a lot. 18 11 and 6 l, effecient, a usage of 11, effected the game without the ball. Even if he is not a great 3 point shooter you always have to put a body on him, if he goes back door on you its over, just throw it up..If he ever got to 35% from 3 man hed be a heck of a player.
Congrats to Fournier, his stats are actually pretty good on the year, especially from 3, he is a good player in the right role. I think part of our hate for Fournier is we like Grimes and Mcbride and want them to get minutes, but Fournier is a good player and wasmt a bad signing, i think in combination with Kemba it was a bad signing.
Burks another effecient game without Randle,hmm..He is not a point guard we all know that and i think him being forced to play point has made me hate him and want him benched but he is a useful and good player in the right role..He is a scorer and should be used that way.
Quickley didnt shoot the best 10 points on 9 shots but had 5 rebounds and 7 assists, he is learning to play under control and effect the game in other ways besides scoring. Only 21 minutes, should of played more but he is evolving as a player.
Mcbride 9 points all on 3s which is nice to see. 2 boards and 1 assist and is always all over the place defensively. He just comes in and makes a positive impact whether he scores or not.
Sims got the start and was just effective, nothing crazy, but played his role, good game..
Gibson man if only he was 10 years younger, i cant grt excited with where the team is at and at 37 he is not part of the future but he played a good game, starting to hit that corner 3...
Grimes not a good shooting night, really didnt do much, wonder if the knee is still bothering him a little bit, his shots were short..
Thibs thank you for playing Obi over 30 minutes, thank you for going Rj at the 4 at times but you need to stop getting in players faces after 1 mistake. I dont think i see any other coach doing this after 1 mistake. If you did to everyone id have a little more respect for you but you dont. Benching Mcbride because Rozier his 2 tough shots from 3 with a hand in his face was ridiculous and then taking Grimes out because he helped when Burks got beat and then ran out to contest the 3 but it was made was even mkre ridiculous..
Thibs is a good coach with a bunch of lunchpale role players and 1 star to control the ball, he is not a coach for a bunch of young players who like run and move the ball and play fast.
I am firmly in the move Randle camp.
Randle- I think you have to cut bait. He's just too volatile and hard to build a young team around. I think he's still a good player, but its better to get out now then before its too late to get off that contract. You obviously want the most value but I would probably take "even" value just to move him this offseason.
RJ- Do you give him the max extension? I think you try to get him to take something less than the full max. You risk hurting the relationship but you still hold all the leverage with restricted free agency. But I would try to get him locked up with some compromise.
Robinson- the guy flashes big time but is just not consistent enough. I would be scared giving him a big deal too. I would also view centers as either elite ( true max guys) or go off MLE players, rookies or below. I don't think its wise to spend big on centers that aren't at the top. But maybe you get him a on team friendly deal- only a few teams this season have cap space.
think 5 for 140 to 150 range is fair
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
RJ is 21 years old and averaging 24 points since January and has the most 30 point games under 21 years old.
He is on the cusp of being an All-star.
Pay that man his money
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his max is something like 5/180. That's crazy money for a guy who simply hasn't played well enough to justify that kind of financial commitment. John Collins got 5/125 from Atlanta. Bridges got 4/90. I think something in that range is fine.
RJ is 21 years old and averaging 24 points since January and has the most 30 point games under 21 years old.
He is on the cusp of being an All-star.
Pay that man his money
yeah, that's dumb.
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
I totally agree but will the Knicks have the risk tolerance to take on that stance? They will still have his restricted rights, but do they want to piss off their best young player by far? Barrett also has one of the most powerful agents in the sport. They should be able to keep him regardless, but there is risk involved in letting him get to RFA.
The cap is also expected to increase big time in a few years. Some projections having it being bumped up by 50 million by 2025 with the new tv deal.
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into purgatory for years.
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
I totally agree but will the Knicks have the risk tolerance to take on that stance? They will still have his restricted rights, but do they want to piss off their best young player by far? Barrett also has one of the most powerful agents in the sport. They should be able to keep him regardless, but there is risk involved in letting him get to RFA.
The cap is also expected to increase big time in a few years. Some projections having it being bumped up by 50 million by 2025 with the new tv deal.
there are plenty of good young players that have taken non-max extensions. I don't see how it's an "insult" to RJ or anyone else to say:
"we don't think you're worth $180 million. Please try to get by on $120 million", lol.
Who might be a trade partner, though?
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see no realistic path for the Knicks to be a "good" NBA team with RJ and Randle being in the same lineup... as such... bye Julius.
Who might be a trade partner, though?
I continue to believe the Blazers are the most obvious trade partner.
Lillard still apparently wants to stay there. He'd 32 in July, the Blazers are likely going to want to add "proven" NBA talent to pair with him vs. "upside"
Lillard/Randle/Simons may not be "a big 3" but that's a good trio to build around near term.
Randle for Bledsoe, Josh Hart (non-guaranteed 2023 salary) (but also a good player) and a lottery protected #1 works for me.
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In comment 15643225 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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into purgatory for years.
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
I totally agree but will the Knicks have the risk tolerance to take on that stance? They will still have his restricted rights, but do they want to piss off their best young player by far? Barrett also has one of the most powerful agents in the sport. They should be able to keep him regardless, but there is risk involved in letting him get to RFA.
The cap is also expected to increase big time in a few years. Some projections having it being bumped up by 50 million by 2025 with the new tv deal.
there are plenty of good young players that have taken non-max extensions. I don't see how it's an "insult" to RJ or anyone else to say:
"we don't think you're worth $180 million. Please try to get by on $120 million", lol.
That's not how the NBA works though. And the Knicks are now going to draw a hard line with Barrett after the contracts they gave out last summer? He's going to ask for the max and either get it or get close to it one way or the other.
I'd be all over Zion. But what would New Orleans even want? More picks? How many times can that franchise rebuild with more picks? Just a guess, but I would think they would want some young players in return.
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In comment 15643512 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 15643225 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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into purgatory for years.
If RJ's agent is hard locked on getting the max, you move along. I don't see it any different than in the NFL. You get your rookie deal's length to set the table for how much you make on your second contract. He isn't a max contract guy. Hardworking player that has improved each season, but no way.
I totally agree but will the Knicks have the risk tolerance to take on that stance? They will still have his restricted rights, but do they want to piss off their best young player by far? Barrett also has one of the most powerful agents in the sport. They should be able to keep him regardless, but there is risk involved in letting him get to RFA.
The cap is also expected to increase big time in a few years. Some projections having it being bumped up by 50 million by 2025 with the new tv deal.
there are plenty of good young players that have taken non-max extensions. I don't see how it's an "insult" to RJ or anyone else to say:
"we don't think you're worth $180 million. Please try to get by on $120 million", lol.
That's not how the NBA works though. And the Knicks are now going to draw a hard line with Barrett after the contracts they gave out last summer? He's going to ask for the max and either get it or get close to it one way or the other.
that is how the NBA has been working. Again, several good young players have gotten less or much less than the max (JJJ, Bridges, Collins, OG). These are players who are not only out-performing RJ, they're doing it on winning teams.
If Rose just hands him the max it will be a dumb move IMO.
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
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1m
“I want to do it here,but there also comes a point that you also know that it becomes a business.And if you feel like the stars aren't aligned with that,then everybody's going to do what's best for them,regardless of what the money is.”
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
·
1m
“I want to do it here,but there also comes a point that you also know that it becomes a business.And if you feel like the stars aren't aligned with that,then everybody's going to do what's best for them,regardless of what the money is.”
Anyway we can get Beal, Zion and keep RJ?
How legit was the recent story about Thibs being here next year? Have to think if the kids show up the vets like they've been doing Thibs has to be at the end of his rope.
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apparently Aller wanted the Knicks to go youth and Thibs laughed and mocked Aller..
How legit was the recent story about Thibs being here next year? Have to think if the kids show up the vets like they've been doing Thibs has to be at the end of his rope.
There needs to be a sitdown with Rose, Wes, and Aller with Thibs and basically tell him we are going with the youth and if you dont like it you can leavue but we are building around them..
Blatantly not playing Reddish because he didnt like the trade is baby shit..
2) I still can't believe Thibs is going to be here next season. I don't know how the FO could sell that to the fanbase.
3) I love his game, but man...Butler causes drama wherever he goes? Chicago...whose team is it? His or Rose? MN? That infamous practice the same day NBA Shoot Around is in town to interview him...76ers, implying that Simmons isn't serious (thought he was right on Ben). And now last night? Good grief.
4) Little interest in Zion unless we're getting him in a very friendly deal. His lower body injuries scare the hell out of me.
5) I'll believe Beal wants to be dealt when he comes out & asks for a trade.
With Thibs if he agreed to a youth movement i would be fine because you know the team is going to play hard, play defense and at least we know they would bring it everynight..but if he is going to keep favoring vets over the kids we dont need him here, its clear the kids have surpassed the vets on this team and lets be real do we need vets? next year Rj 4th year, reddish 4th year, Obi 3rd year, quick 3rd, Grimes, grimes, mcbride 2nd and if Mitch came back his 5th...Bring back Fournier or Rose with them you got enough veteran players..
Let them rock and grow together
Could they be enticed by Randle? They used Zion in more of a point forward role last year, Randle could definitely fill that role for them if that’s what they’re looking to continue to do. Perhaps you build a package around Randle, and multiple firsts for Zion and Nance’s expiring.
Sean, no. I still watch 90% of Knicks games-either live or on DVR-but I've definitely been beaten down watching them since the early '00s. I had a ton of optimism going into this season, but that quickly evaporated. The franchise just can't seem to catch a break. Also, throw in Dolan....who is a complete clown who is so unlikable. Like the Giants, I still follow them religiously-I'm a member on Posting and Toasting-but I'm definitely in a 'Wait & see' mode when it comes to screaming about them again.
Oh ok thanks for clarifying, i just saw a snippet and it was given credit to Bondy
It’s not surprising. Didn’t Wes supposedly go to Dolan to complain about Thibs? Nothing better than the HC and front office being on two completely pages. So hey, let’s bring everyone back next season! Typical Knicks
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So it’s legit.
It’s not surprising. Didn’t Wes supposedly go to Dolan to complain about Thibs? Nothing better than the HC and front office being on two completely pages. So hey, let’s bring everyone back next season! Typical Knicks
I dont think they are bringing everyone back, i would be stunned jf Randle is back..
and if Thibs is back they are going to force his hand and get rid if some of these vets..
I still woukdnt be shocked if Thibs is let go
Unless the report was premature?
Yes, and/or attach pick(s).
Randle's max 15% trade kicker, which applies to his entire four-year remaining contract balance, doesn't help. Knicks/Dolan would take the cash hit, with the cap consequence being borne by the acquiring team.
It's not going to be easy for this front office to face up to what is going to be needed to move Randle and the contract they handed him.
In other news, TOR beats CLE to tie for the sixth seed. Looking at schedules, I see TOR taking that seed, knocking CLE into the 7-8 game with BKN.
BKN takes that and then has a first round war with the #2 seed.
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He is a head case and everyone knows it, I think the Knicks would need to take back some garbage.
Yes, and/or attach pick(s).
Randle's max 15% trade kicker, which applies to his entire four-year remaining contract balance, doesn't help. Knicks/Dolan would take the cash hit, with the cap consequence being borne by the acquiring team.
It's not going to be easy for this front office to face up to what is going to be needed to move Randle and the contract they handed him.
In other news, TOR beats CLE to tie for the sixth seed. Looking at schedules, I see TOR taking that seed, knocking CLE into the 7-8 game with BKN.
BKN takes that and then has a first round war with the #2 seed.
If you trade Randle on draft night there is no 15%trade kicker..
Also his likely kncentives in his new ckntract will become unlikely at the start of the new year, his cap hit would then only be 23 million
If you trade Randle on draft night there is no 15%trade kicker..
You have a reference or a specific knowledge of Randle's contract terms to support that?
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If you trade Randle on draft night there is no 15%trade kicker..
You have a reference or a specific knowledge of Randle's contract terms to support that?
Yeah its pretty simple, his new contract that has the trade kicker doesnt kick in until the new league year...If traded at the drsft its based om his current deal and becauae he is not becoming a free agent he is tradeable at the deadline
Thanks; that will add some suspense to draft night.
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Thanks; that will add some suspense to draft night.
Trade kickers really arent that big of a deal, teams will either add cash to offset or the player themselves will waive the kicker to make a deal work
Trade kickers really arent that big of a deal, teams will either add cash to offset or the player themselves will waive the kicker to make a deal work
Randle won't waive it and it's more significant when you are trying to move an undesirable commodity.
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In comment 15644230 shyster said:
Trade kickers really arent that big of a deal, teams will either add cash to offset or the player themselves will waive the kicker to make a deal work
Randle won't waive it and it's more significant when you are trying to move an undesirable commodity.
Sometimes yeah, but if he wants to be moved he will waive it..either way Knicks would either add cash or a couple of 2nds to a deal..
If Chet Holmgren can't add some muscle, he'll be a speed bump in the NBA.
Banchero has the ability but something just seems missing with that guy, he just doesn't really play with much fire. In our two games against Duke, Jayden Gardner bullied him around despite giving up 5 inches to him.
ROKAS - ( New Window )
There is not a chance in the world I'd bet against a 19 year old 7 footer getting thicker. Everybody grows. They said the same thing about Porzingis and he developed an NBA body as well.