I don’t know what his value is, but I just don’t see this ending well. After all the drama of last season plus the durability concerns, for him not to show up yesterday is frustrating.
I’d call up Kansas City and see what they would offer. Toney and a bad team concerns me. I never loved the pick, it felt forced to try to bring in weapons for Jones. I think it is worth looking into.
You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday.
But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...
Let’s see him with a real, modern, offensive staff that knows how to use different types of offensive weapons before writing him off.
He opened the next game like gangbusters too against the Rams. I think he had 3 catches for 35/40 yards on the opening drive before leaving the game injured. He's a weapon and is going to be REALLY good.
Sounds fine, unless your guy doesn't really give a shit and doesn't want to be here. In which case Marvelous Kadarius Toney is on a one-way path out the door, either voluntarily or involuntarily.
his value right now is probably the lowest it could be other than if he were out for the year. if we traded him now it would be like getting .25 on the dollar for our 1st round pick last season.
What I see is a player who is relatively small in stature and needs to learn when a play is over to avoid spending the majority of his playing career on IR.
I know many don’t respect Mel Kiper’s opinion very much, but I remember him specifically pointing out that Toney is electric, but needs to learn how to avoid contact or he’ll have a short career on draft night.
We saw that come to fruition this season. He starts off the season hurt, has that splash game against Dallas where he gets hurt again in the 4th. Then he goes out, snags four balls on the opening drive against the Rams and hurts himself again trying to make some full speed cutback. The rest of the season was basically a wash.
In terms of trading him, I’m not sure what you would get. It’s kind of like the let’s trade Engram situation last year. Other teams see the same thing we do. With Toney they see a player who hasn’t proven he can stay healthy and who seems to be kind of out there from a personality standpoint.
You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday.
But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...
Several injured players limping along showed up yesterday. But not Marvelous Kadarius Toney. Why not? Because he attended all of the off-season workouts last year?
You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday.
But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...
Don’t get so worked up. As a poster above said, “smart, tough and dependable” - which one is he?
I'm not going to make too much of it, but given last year's variety of issues, it's a bad look.
He isn't hurting anyone right now even if he isn't helping his cause. There's time and for the most part shows NFL talent when he played. See what happens in September.
I'm not going to make too much of it, but given last year's variety of issues, it's a bad look.
THIS ^^^
buy low, sell high.
I know he's been a knucklehead but there's no reason to panic over it after 1 missed voluntary practice. if he misses something involuntary suspend him. at some he will realize he has to get his shit together for at least 5 minutes, trade him after that happens to at least get a day 2 pick out of it.
I think we've seen the problem with oft injured WR's too many times... we talk about what they're capable of, but never what they contribute to winning.
Is Toney in this mold? It's a small data point, but an important one. Selling now is not smart business, or football sense. The Giants have a new coaching staff and a lot of changes in the way this offense is run.
There must be 20 RBs ahead of barkley and 20 QBs ahead of Jones.
And here is another thing: that shit that worked on your high school team ; work hard ; great attitude that doesn't translate much on elite athlete league like the NFL. Give me a loafer with superstar Super Bowl altering talent any day over some blue collar no talent like Jones any day.
There's also "sunken cost fallacy". Especially a cost the current regime didn't make.
The guy had one game. I think if another team wanted to discuss Toney I'd be listening.
LOL
Toney needs to start using more than the two cent head he showed last year...
2. trading him doesn't make much sense to me, especially since he has the type of skill set that forward thinking, offensive coaches like Daboll and Kafka would be able to use.
Draft picks after the 1st and maybe 2nd are completely overrated. Unless you are recouping almost all of your cost there's no point in selling low since the return also has a low probability of working out. I'd rather see what we have in Toney for the next couple years and risk getting burned than sell low now.
Just cut your losses and start over.
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It's a simple rule. Trading Toney now would be a dump after a 1st round investment just 1 year ago. I'd be surprised if they did and I don't think they should unless you think his value will only go down.
There's also "sunken cost fallacy". Especially a cost the current regime didn't make.
The guy had one game. I think if another team wanted to discuss Toney I'd be listening.
You are ready to argue that Toney is a sunken cost already?
Also, I'm def not opposed to listening. Outside of someone offering a 1st, I don't think the conversation would get very far. I also highly doubt anyone would even consider offering a 1st.
Let’s see him with a real, modern, offensive staff that knows how to use different types of offensive weapons before writing him off.
The entire first year of his career was filled with excuses
And now he's starting his 2nd season exactly where he left off
If you don't think this is a problem I don't know what to tell you
Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.
But we can't trade him, if only because as someone said, there would be a huge cap hit if we did so. Even after restructuring Jackson's contract, we only have about $6M in cap space. Most of the FAs we signed are VSB contracts.
He also showed a lot of "make you miss" ability when he did play.
I didn't want to draft Toney. He has a lot of toughness, but I thought his injury history was too substantial in college.
He wouldn't know who Toney was anyway...
Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.
He is the biggest weapon we have, which means that as you note, that we are nowhere.
Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.
Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.
Everyone else on this team should be considered for trade or being cut. It's a putrid roster.
You just have to assume at this point that any player covered in Gettleman's fingerprints is very likely a miss. He got little to nothing right. So why would anyone care if you never see the player in a NYG uniform again?
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for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.
Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.
Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.
I think its a fair opinion to hold and I can't say you are wrong, but what are you getting for him? Why dump him for a mid round pick when he's on a rookie deal and has the ability to perform and raise his value?
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for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.
Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.
Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.
That's probably three years from now.
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If that were remotely true, the Giants are truly nowhere.
Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.
He is the biggest weapon we have, which means that as you note, that we are nowhere.
Ok, how do you even come to that conclusion? he is a potential weapon but he hardly played last year and never scored. He hasn't shown anything to say he is a true weapon. Slayton showed more his rookie year than Toney did.
the guy played hard and played hurt. when on the field, he seems like he cares. those are positive
but the off-field stuff is very worrisome. there always seems to be something with this guy. cleats, contract, covid, injury, etc. that combined with all the missed time and the red flags coming out of college is extremely worrisome.
i think it's too early to cut bait on him.
i also never would have drafted him to begin with. they are in a tough situation with him
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In comment 15656311 Kmed6000 said:
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for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.
Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.
Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.
I think its a fair opinion to hold and I can't say you are wrong, but what are you getting for him? Why dump him for a mid round pick when he's on a rookie deal and has the ability to perform and raise his value?
Also agree. It isn't just the cap hit we'd incur by trading him. It's also that we wouldn't get much in return.
Everybody wants to "clean house" and get rid of DG's players ASAP, but that simply can't be done in one offseason. That's just the frustrating reality we have to accept.
No one is offering a second round pick. I’d be surprised if he garnered more than a fourth.
You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday.
But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...
He made business decisions at the end of the last year and that info didn't start w/ me.
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In comment 15656310 JonC said:
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If that were remotely true, the Giants are truly nowhere.
Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.
He is the biggest weapon we have, which means that as you note, that we are nowhere.
Ok, how do you even come to that conclusion? he is a potential weapon but he hardly played last year and never scored. He hasn't shown anything to say he is a true weapon. Slayton showed more his rookie year than Toney did.
Slatyon had a better rookie season than Toney, but not last year. I think Slayton had one of the highest drop percentages in the league.
Barkley did nothing last year.
Golladay had fewer TDs than Thomas last year(so did Toney).
"Biggest' in this context is still pretty small. It's just that everyone else did even less than Toney's minimal contributions. Toney at least had a few flashes. But the fact that Toney is our biggest weapon as I said shows how truly bad the Giants are on offense.
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In comment 15656311 Kmed6000 said:
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for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.
Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.
Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.
I think its a fair opinion to hold and I can't say you are wrong, but what are you getting for him? Why dump him for a mid round pick when he's on a rookie deal and has the ability to perform and raise his value?
Because I don't expect him to raise his value. I expect it to degrade further. We've got to stop making decisions based on optimistic scenarios.
Toney is a dipshit. He's often hurt. And on this occasions he was healthy I wasn't impressed with him as a player. I thought he was a dreadful draft pick. Dreadful.
Given the track record these past few years there's every reason to expect Toney will just turn out to be another in a long line of mistakes.
Cut bait. Cut bait everywhere you can.
I don’t have high hopes for the player, but maybe Kafka can find a way to use him as some kind of Tyreek Hill/gadget player.
Unless he pulls a DeAndre Baker he’s going to be here at least two more years.
Either way, talented kid, but seems a damn shame he isn’t all in the way both Judge and now Daboll said they wanted players to be.
Calling them voluntary, and then shaming/wanting to trade/quitting on them for treating them as voluntary is stupid beyond the pale.
Everyone else on this team should be considered for trade or being cut. It's a putrid roster.
You just have to assume at this point that any player covered in Gettleman's fingerprints is very likely a miss. He got little to nothing right. So why would anyone care if you never see the player in a NYG uniform again?
Hopefully he stays healthy. He has foot and ankle issues and has yet to play a full season.
Schoen can’t give the benefit of the doubt to any player he’s inherited because the scouting system that brought them in was incontrovertibly broken.
The coming weeks are a judgement test for Toney. Good judgement would dictate: I better show the new guys I’m the exception.
Unfortunately this is the dodo who once brought an air rifle to a gun fight. Good judgement has evaded him so far.
Schoen can’t give the benefit of the doubt to any player he’s inherited because the scouting system that brought them in was incontrovertibly broken.
The coming weeks are a judgement test for Toney. Good judgement would dictate: I better show the new guys I’m the exception.
Unfortunately this is the dodo who once brought an air rifle to a gun fight. Good judgement has evaded him so far.
Great post. One thing we don't know is who inside the scouting dept might have hitched their wagon to him, in addition to those already out the door. But, I'd wager that's going to be rendered a moot point soon enough, by Toney himself.
Take the 8 million cap hit and cut a player just because he was drafted by the former GM that some of you need to move the fuck on from already.
This isn't make believe. You don't just cut players. You exhaust every means available to you to get the most out of said player. You try everything first. Then you cut the player if things are untenable between player and team.
How do any of you know what he could fetch? He lacks information but you know the price of him exactly all of a sudden?
I don't think it's cut and dry. If you get like a 2nd round pick offer today because he flashed a bit or even a 3rd I'd give a long hard think about shipping him out because you might never get that again.
He could easily lower his value this year or raise it. But the premise is right no reason not to take a serious look because you drive him to the airport for a 2nd.
This is guy looks to be at least a decent chance of being a lose-lose type of player. Even if he plays well you are going to have to pay someone a lot that likely has attitude problems.
You can explain away the injuries all you want but the comment on Ruggs and just the sheer volume of issues with this guy, it's amazing that such a "classy" team and mindset that it is one of our strengths is excited about this guy.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
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In comment 15656322 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15656311 Kmed6000 said:
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for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.
Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.
Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.
I think its a fair opinion to hold and I can't say you are wrong, but what are you getting for him? Why dump him for a mid round pick when he's on a rookie deal and has the ability to perform and raise his value?
Because I don't expect him to raise his value. I expect it to degrade further. We've got to stop making decisions based on optimistic scenarios.
Toney is a dipshit. He's often hurt. And on this occasions he was healthy I wasn't impressed with him as a player. I thought he was a dreadful draft pick. Dreadful.
Given the track record these past few years there's every reason to expect Toney will just turn out to be another in a long line of mistakes.
Cut bait. Cut bait everywhere you can.
You and other are proposing this cut bait and suck for 2022 plan which is very idealistic and not very realistic since the fans and media will be killing the team in September, absent in December, and the media will start having a field day with Schoen and Daboll by early year 2.
The instant gratification crowd will outweigh those who are willing to execute a longer term plan. If you think otherwise, you are naïve.
If you are Schoen and or Daboll and you completely punt year one, you are a bad start in year two away from calls for a regime change. We just saw this by the way, except Judge's team didn't even tank year one, they actually made some, albeit minor, progress.
There is no time to wait in the NFL, especially not in New York. You should listen to what Carl Banks recently had to say about the "rebuild" in one of his latest conversations with Papa. Bringing in new players is fine, but in year one they need to press Dallas and be better than Philly and Washington. Go and be competitive. They're not going to do that with this "everyone sucks" let's roll over and die mentality. The Eagles made the playoffs with the ghastly Jalen Hurts as QB after he was reduced to a glorified running back.
But people are not crazy for having lots of concerns about him. There have been red flags popping up since he got here and it is still continuing.. usually when there is smoke there is fire
I want players who don't have to be gotten through to. It's one thing for a staff to work on a player's technique, work on his speed or strength, etc. But I don't expect them to improve his "want to." You either want to or you don't. If you don't, then goodbye and good luck.
Dont forget though, he was playing in an offense that was just brutal. No running game, no time to pass the ball and no need to respect anyone else on the field. I think the shiftiness he showed(ability to make guys miss in a phone booth) was elite level. To me, thats why you don't just dump him at this point.
Take the 8 million cap hit and cut a player just because he was drafted by the former GM that some of you need to move the fuck on from already.
This isn't make believe. You don't just cut players. You exhaust every means available to you to get the most out of said player. You try everything first. Then you cut the player if things are untenable between player and team.
Pink hat polyannas don’t worry about the cap they just see a guy that missed a voluntary workout and got their panties all soiled
Most NFL draft picks trend toward bust.
I don't think he a bust, he has talent, he can play in the NFL. He just needs to stay healthy. You found a guy who you know can play. He is a 1,000 yard receiver even last year if he stayed healthy.
Why trade him for probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder, and try this lottery again.
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Eh, the joysticking is fun to watch but moving laterally in the NFL tends to be very boom and mostly bust in the NFL. He's not really shown anything I'd label as insane ability, he didn't even score a TD. IF he reaches a point where DCs need to gameplan him, we'll see what he's made of. IF he can get and stay on the field in the first place ...
Dont forget though, he was playing in an offense that was just brutal. No running game, no time to pass the ball and no need to respect anyone else on the field. I think the shiftiness he showed(ability to make guys miss in a phone booth) was elite level. To me, thats why you don't just dump him at this point.
I haven't forgotten, he just doesn't really impress me in any way, so far.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
Toney Giants highlights - ( New Window )
Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.
That's my take. He had one dominant game and other than that, an injury filled, strange rookie year where he didn't show much promise.
So comparing him to Beckham like many are doing in this topic is asinine, Beckham's rookie year was historic and light years ahead of Toney's.
The signs simply aren't good for this guy. I'm not saying cut him, I'm saying "if someone wanted to discuss trading for him, I'd listen." It's far more likely Toney continues to be a disappointment/bust than the lights turn on.
Pink hat polyannas don’t worry about the cap they just see a guy that missed a voluntary workout and got their panties all soiled
It's more than just missing a voluntary workout. It was an opportunity to show you're committed to the game, in general, and the team, in particular, 100%. It was an opportunity to make that impression on your new GM and HC.
Now, that doesn't mean that Schoen is going to go out trade Toney right away. But if you don't think his absence resonates with Schoen (and Daboll), and casts the kid in a negative light, I think you're kidding yourself.
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If that were remotely true, the Giants are truly nowhere.
Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.
That's my take. He had one dominant game and other than that, an injury filled, strange rookie year where he didn't show much promise.
So comparing him to Beckham like many are doing in this topic is asinine, Beckham's rookie year was historic and light years ahead of Toney's.
The signs simply aren't good for this guy. I'm not saying cut him, I'm saying "if someone wanted to discuss trading for him, I'd listen." It's far more likely Toney continues to be a disappointment/bust than the lights turn on.
Where are all of these people comparing him to OBJ?
Toney is not OBJ, but OBJ was in a much better situation and had a HOF QB.
Schoen can’t give the benefit of the doubt to any player he’s inherited because the scouting system that brought them in was incontrovertibly broken.
The coming weeks are a judgement test for Toney. Good judgement would dictate: I better show the new guys I’m the exception.
Unfortunately this is the dodo who once brought an air rifle to a gun fight. Good judgement has evaded him so far.
Also, he has no eyebrows. Dude has got to go!
You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday.
But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...
Imagine being at the highest level of your profession, having questions about your work ethic, and deciding to skip the first day of team activities, when the majority of your co workers show up, under new management . The optics with this guy continue to be bad as much as some people want to pretend it’s not the case
Here are things I think I know about the guy:
- He brought an air rifle to a gun fight in college
- He skipped OTAs last year presumably because of his contract, despite the CBA guaranteeing his comp
- He seemingly got Covid twice
- He appealed for public sympathy for a guy who killed a woman in a car crash
- He didn’t show up to meet his new coach yesterday
He’s a smart kid. Former QB, graduated high school early. He’s creative and he’s pretty funny too. He knows better.
It would sure be hell on your BBI handle if we get rid of him.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
The emotions are from the superfans who want to believe our players are way better than they actually are.
It's rare for two top receivers on the same college team to both be really good in the pros. One is usually drawing coverage for the other. Kyle Pitts was an absolute monster so taking Toney as a first rounder along with his baggage came with lots of risk.
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So….
It would sure be hell on your BBI handle if we get rid of him.
I mean it was kind of a joke seeing as he’s never scored a TD. But is it too late to change it to YUNG JOKA RAP GOD?!?! Guy is a total clown but we still can’t cut or trade him now so it’s a moot point I guess
Most NFL draft picks trend toward bust.
I don't think he a bust, he has talent, he can play in the NFL. He just needs to stay healthy. You found a guy who you know can play. He is a 1,000 yard receiver even last year if he stayed healthy.
He doesn’t have T hill speed. Toney fast enough but in short area. Not a 4.3 guy
Why trade him for probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder, and try this lottery again.
I like that, JonC, ding dongery, and christian's points tend to validate it, never mind his 'Becky China Doll' (there, I said it) constitution. The man from Oz. As someone above said, if he's got, what, $7 million in his pocket, he may not feel that he is obliged to do anything more to earn it. Game over.
And who is advising him here? With all the questions surrounding him and new coaching staff - somebody should have been in his ear about the importance of attending this. Full stop, this is a mistake by him and a big red flag.
Maybe they are closer than we think 😂
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... We really know very little about this guy.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
The emotions are from the superfans who want to believe our players are way better than they actually are.
Thanks.
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... We really know very little about this.
Here are things I think I know about the guy:
- He brought an air rifle to a gun fight in college
- He skipped OTAs last year presumably because of his contract, despite the CBA guaranteeing his comp
- He seemingly got Covid twice
- He appealed for public sympathy for a guy who killed a woman in a car crash
- He didn’t show up to meet his new coach yesterday
He’s a smart kid. Former QB, graduated high school early. He’s creative and he’s pretty funny too. He knows better.
Not for anything, one of these things doesn't fit with the others.
Got Covid twice? Should he wear a scarlet letter for having gotten a virus?
Also, I'd argue that on a list of big deals, you're only going 2 convince me a couple of those items qualify.
Let's see what happens in the totality of year two. If he turns out to be a worthless clown, no one will say it louder than me. I did with Beckham.
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In comment 15656403 Brown_Hornet said:
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... We really know very little about this guy.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
The emotions are from the superfans who want to believe our players are way better than they actually are.
OK.
Thanks.
No problem. For someone who is as wrong as often as you are it's presumptuous to accuse other people of being emotional.
Boy this was a horrendous pick, they could have had a number of other players instead.
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In comment 15656403 Brown_Hornet said:
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... We really know very little about this.
Here are things I think I know about the guy:
- He brought an air rifle to a gun fight in college
- He skipped OTAs last year presumably because of his contract, despite the CBA guaranteeing his comp
- He seemingly got Covid twice
- He appealed for public sympathy for a guy who killed a woman in a car crash
- He didn’t show up to meet his new coach yesterday
He’s a smart kid. Former QB, graduated high school early. He’s creative and he’s pretty funny too. He knows better.
Not for anything, one of these things doesn't fit with the others.
Got Covid twice? Should he wear a scarlet letter for having gotten a virus?
Also, I'd argue that on a list of big deals, you're only going 2 convince me a couple of those items qualify.
Let's see what happens in the totality of year two. If he turns out to be a worthless clown, no one will say it louder than me. I did with Beckham.
**going to**
Toney can be a unique talent but is the juice worth the squeeze?
If he was a no show, this seems like strike one for dependability.
Article - ( New Window )
....
Definitely needs another year for a full evaluation IMO.
LOL it’s like the “Jones is the worst QB in the NFL TRADE HIM NOW” crew
Most NFL draft picks trend toward bust.
I don't think he a bust, he has talent, he can play in the NFL. He just needs to stay healthy. You found a guy who you know can play. He is a 1,000 yard receiver even last year if he stayed healthy.
Why trade him for probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder, and try this lottery again.
Tyreek Hill potential? Come on now. He flashed some last year but do you know how many players in this league have 1 or 2 big games than fall back to earth?
I think Giants fans have no surpassed Knicks fans in overrating their young players.
I'm no big fan of Toney for all the reasons discussed above, but a few of those highlights are eye-opening. He's very fast, or sudden, along with having crazy moves. Hopefully he'll show up eventually and play well. But I don't have rose-colored glasses on as to the likelihood of that.
He's on a cheap deal, no point in trading him right now, you get nothing for him
lets see how he does this year
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In comment 15656403 Brown_Hornet said:
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... We really know very little about this.
Here are things I think I know about the guy:
- He brought an air rifle to a gun fight in college
- He skipped OTAs last year presumably because of his contract, despite the CBA guaranteeing his comp
- He seemingly got Covid twice
- He appealed for public sympathy for a guy who killed a woman in a car crash
- He didn’t show up to meet his new coach yesterday
He’s a smart kid. Former QB, graduated high school early. He’s creative and he’s pretty funny too. He knows better.
Not for anything, one of these things doesn't fit with the others.
Got Covid twice? Should he wear a scarlet letter for having gotten a virus?
The NFL and the world at large provided common sense approaches to not miss games.
The vast majority of NFL players found a way to not get on the Covid reserve list at all.
No scarlet letter, just practice the common sense most of your co-workers did.
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The guy sucks and he's always injured so trade him because there are a bunch of teams out there looking for a player like that.
LOL it’s like the “Jones is the worst QB in the NFL TRADE HIM NOW” crew
There's always someone who will take a flyer on a reclaimation project.
He's on a cheap deal, no point in trading him right now, you get nothing for him
lets see how he does this year
Well said. Its an organizational problem as well. Its not just the fanbase. How quickly it was alluded to that some of the most productive previous players of the Giants were labelled as problems even including DRC towards the end of his run with the Giants. Other teams don't jettison talent because they don't fit in the mold of their Kentucky Derby owner or their "down in front" fanbase Mr. People on here always making fun of teams like the Cowboys drafting headcases or people who have had run ins with the law. But they consistently have had winning teams the last few years...
Your bed.
Shut the fuck up and produce, this year or the media and fans are going to run you out of town.
The Coughlin Giants had a bunch of guys who did stupid stuff and who won a ring — Toomer, Strahan, Boley, Diehl, McKenzie etc.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
not sure I'm seeing the connection between what Toney chooses to do in his free time (rap) and his value to the organization as a player. unless you think that he skipped team-required rehab workouts to rap? in which case, do you have any proof of that?
lots of players skip voluntary workouts for various reasons. it's not a good look for a young player, but the overreactions are part of the problem with this fanbase.
everything is a dumpster fire. no patience, no vision for the future. no desire to work with someone who is different from the version of the ideal player in your mind. just react to everything that happens with the utmost outrage.
if you think that is a blueprint for getting back to a Super Bowl any time soon, I wouldn't hold your breath on that. the sport has evolved past us. it's on us to catch up with the sport, not to force the sport to devolve back to us.
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In comment 15656448 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15656403 Brown_Hornet said:
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... We really know very little about this guy.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
The emotions are from the superfans who want to believe our players are way better than they actually are.
OK.
Thanks.
No problem. For someone who is as wrong as often as you are it's presumptuous to accuse other people of being emotional.
You're mistaken.
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Everyone should see him for what he is. Last year, while supposedly rehabbing his injury to get on the field, he was also apparently finishing his latest rap album. Never made it on the field, but the album came out within a month of season's end. That's where his focus is: his music career. Football is just a way to pay the bills until he becomes a "star". He will (mostly) do the mandatory stuff, and keep finding injuries so he really doesn't have to play.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
not sure I'm seeing the connection between what Toney chooses to do in his free time (rap) and his value to the organization as a player. unless you think that he skipped team-required rehab workouts to rap? in which case, do you have any proof of that?
lots of players skip voluntary workouts for various reasons. it's not a good look for a young player, but the overreactions are part of the problem with this fanbase.
everything is a dumpster fire. no patience, no vision for the future. no desire to work with someone who is different from the version of the ideal player in your mind. just react to everything that happens with the utmost outrage.
if you think that is a blueprint for getting back to a Super Bowl any time soon, I wouldn't hold your breath on that. the sport has evolved past us. it's on us to catch up with the sport, not to force the sport to devolve back to us.
This post describes what's wrong with society today. We keep lowering standards instead of making people rise to the standard they should be held to. Schools are suffering from the same problem. Everyone's afraid to hold people accountable
The Coughlin Giants had a bunch of guys who did stupid stuff and who won a ring — Toomer, Strahan, Boley, Diehl, McKenzie etc.
If you want something done, put it in writing.
Voluntary but not voluntary unwritten rules aren't professionalism. It's like playing the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" wife game.
If you want to hold people to a standard, then put the standard in black and white on paper. This is true for everything in the professional world from the board room to legal to manufacturing quality.
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Everyone should see him for what he is. Last year, while supposedly rehabbing his injury to get on the field, he was also apparently finishing his latest rap album. Never made it on the field, but the album came out within a month of season's end. That's where his focus is: his music career. Football is just a way to pay the bills until he becomes a "star". He will (mostly) do the mandatory stuff, and keep finding injuries so he really doesn't have to play.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
not sure I'm seeing the connection between what Toney chooses to do in his free time (rap) and his value to the organization as a player. unless you think that he skipped team-required rehab workouts to rap? in which case, do you have any proof of that?
lots of players skip voluntary workouts for various reasons. it's not a good look for a young player, but the overreactions are part of the problem with this fanbase.
Skipping OTAs as a rookie is almost unheard of. Lots of veterans skip voluntary workouts, which I am fine with. KT started his career skipping them and is repeating foolishness that this year.
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In comment 15656374 Dave on the UWS said:
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Everyone should see him for what he is. Last year, while supposedly rehabbing his injury to get on the field, he was also apparently finishing his latest rap album. Never made it on the field, but the album came out within a month of season's end. That's where his focus is: his music career. Football is just a way to pay the bills until he becomes a "star". He will (mostly) do the mandatory stuff, and keep finding injuries so he really doesn't have to play.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
not sure I'm seeing the connection between what Toney chooses to do in his free time (rap) and his value to the organization as a player. unless you think that he skipped team-required rehab workouts to rap? in which case, do you have any proof of that?
lots of players skip voluntary workouts for various reasons. it's not a good look for a young player, but the overreactions are part of the problem with this fanbase.
Skipping OTAs as a rookie is almost unheard of. Lots of veterans skip voluntary workouts, which I am fine with. KT started his career skipping them and is repeating foolishness that this year.
Don’t bother, I remember when people laughed at the scouts that said this kid had red flags and look now. It was only fitting Gettleman overlooked them and Judge had some consultant say he was a good kid in high school to sign off on him. 😂😂😂
Oh boy...
so we have another fairly high 1st round pick who needs the team around him to improve (ala Daniel Jones).
I thought the high 1st round offensive picks are the ones who are supposed to improve the offense.
Jones and Barkley only saw their value diminish with every day that passed. The same is likely to happen with Toney - I expect he'll never be more valuable than he is now.
But at the end of the day he is a head case.
Good luck with that.
suffice to say i have the exact opposite viewpoint, snablats, on the team.
keep holding 2022 players up to that 1986 Giants standard, if that’s how you derive enjoyment as a fan. it won’t help a lick when it comes to winning games though.
But at the end of the day he is a head case.
Good luck with that.
It’s actually the complete opposite concern, Toney doesn’t love football at all
For every kid that never reaches potential and showed problematic signs early and often, there are countless guys that STILL turned into HOF players despite those same early struggles. And you know this is true.
Any scout or football exec that acted short sighted like this would regret it before too long. Sometimes you do have to exhibit patience and work with problematic younger players. Sometimes they aren't worth it.
Bill Belichick and Parcells both won big on the backs of turning some problem players around, and that includes younger players.
I love how easy some of you make this look. It's not that easy.
Because this team is still comprised almost entirely of Gettleman's garbage.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
Uhh...he's a rookie. See him for what he is? Maybe some of you folks should try that for real.
ROOKIE. In a terrible situation.
What the fuck do we have to gain by cutting this guy? The trade is make believe so let's move to the real world part of this discussion.
Nothing to gain by cutting this guy. literally...NOTHING. And we aren't trading him for jack shit so let's move on and hope this guy develops in his 2nd year. Sorry for saying hope, but again, we're living in the real world. That's how shit works with young players.
There must be 20 RBs ahead of barkley and 20 QBs ahead of Jones.
And here is another thing: that shit that worked on your high school team ; work hard ; great attitude that doesn't translate much on elite athlete league like the NFL. Give me a loafer with superstar Super Bowl altering talent any day over some blue collar no talent like Jones any day.
Hard work doesn’t translate to the NFL? Ummm… ok.
If you want something done, put it in writing.
Voluntary but not voluntary unwritten rules aren't professionalism. It's like playing the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" wife game.
If you want to hold people to a standard, then put the standard in black and white on paper. This is true for everything in the professional world from the board room to legal to manufacturing quality.
Toney is well within his rights not to show up at a voluntary workout, but for a guy who had all kinds of issues finding his way onto the field last summer, and then during the regular season, you can at least understand why some people would question his motivation, can't you?
He's 23 with no wife and no family - I'm sure his calendar is booked solid all thru the spring.
So isn’t the opposite then not awesome?
Nothing Toney’s done is a tragedy. It’s just south of what you’d expect from a first round pick in these circumstances.
If Schoen, is trying to create a culture of " smart and dependable", this guy is like poison in the room.
He's anything but. Get him out of here any way you can. It sends a message you are not screwing around with this mantra.
suffice to say i have the exact opposite viewpoint, snablats, on the team.
keep holding 2022 players up to that 1986 Giants standard, if that’s how you derive enjoyment as a fan. it won’t help a lick when it comes to winning games though.
So holding people accountable for making sure the team comes first and personal stuff come second is not good for winning?
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The league says this is voluntary. The team says this is voluntary. The coach says this is voluntary. The contract says this is voluntary.
If you want something done, put it in writing.
Voluntary but not voluntary unwritten rules aren't professionalism. It's like playing the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" wife game.
If you want to hold people to a standard, then put the standard in black and white on paper. This is true for everything in the professional world from the board room to legal to manufacturing quality.
Toney is well within his rights not to show up at a voluntary workout, but for a guy who had all kinds of issues finding his way onto the field last summer, and then during the regular season, you can at least understand why some people would question his motivation, can't you?
He's 23 with no wife and no family - I'm sure his calendar is booked solid all thru the spring.
I mean it probably is just not for football related stuff. He’s got a new rap album and merch line to promote
DJ doesn't produce and people want to soften that blow because of his work ethic and character
Toney doesn't produce and people want to ignore the fact that there are legitimate concerns about his work ethic
Newsflash to these groups: if you aren't producing it absolutely makes it way worse if there are questions about your work ethic. And what is also true is having a good work ethic is a plus but if it doesn't translate it matters way less. Also I can't understand for the life of me why people are still making so many excuses for people. We suck because our players don't produce, we aren't going to stop sucking until we have players that do. Is it such a crazy idea to want to clear out the non-producers at fair value to make room for people that could possibly produce?
Some of you are like DG except you are falling in full bloom love with anyone who puts on the Giants uniform and I'm not sure why you can't also see that, that is probably our biggest problem. Mara does that.
Changing the names and faces in the front office and sideline is a good start but they still have to shed all the crap that has been left behind with this roster. Maybe the guy in the OP is shit or he actually gets his shit together and becomes something. Until that happens, he is still Gettleman's pick.
So don't ask why posters are still talking about Getts, Abrams, the past 4 years, etc. Rome is still burning in case some of you chuckleheads are missing this...
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In comment 15656488 Brown_Hornet said:
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In comment 15656448 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15656403 Brown_Hornet said:
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... We really know very little about this guy.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
The emotions are from the superfans who want to believe our players are way better than they actually are.
OK.
Thanks.
No problem. For someone who is as wrong as often as you are it's presumptuous to accuse other people of being emotional.
I'm sorry, I've been wrong?
You're mistaken.
No, he's not. You have been a league leader in wrong.
At least you have stuck around to see the mess left behind from all the bad decisions that you likely felt were good ones. More than I can say for some others...
Changing the names and faces in the front office and sideline is a good start but they still have to shed all the crap that has been left behind with this roster. Maybe the guy in the OP is shit or he actually gets his shit together and becomes something. Until that happens, he is still Gettleman's pick.
So don't ask why posters are still talking about Getts, Abrams, the past 4 years, etc. Rome is still burning in case some of you chuckleheads are missing this...
Because acting like every player brought in by DG is a team cancer or dead weight is nothing short of fucking dumb.
I guess we should cut our losses now before these malcontent, dead weight losers corrupt the team even more:
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Azeez Ojulari
Xavier McKinney
Not everything is so black and white.
But you knew that already...
Also, it's time to move on from DG. I know it pains you all, but try it out. Move on. Try it for one day.
Resentment for Rabbit Foot Dave about a roster Dave largely assembled is absolutely fair game.
Kid’s too legit to quite on.
Y’all smoking some illy kind. Trade him? Let the Yung one ball!
A fun player to watch when he is "on" but that style of play(like Saquon) requires a lot of cutting, juking, jumping over folks and that has a halflife of 2 seasons at best
Kid’s too legit to quite on.
Y’all smoking some illy kind. Trade him? Let the Yung one ball!
What the fuck is this?
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The league says this is voluntary. The team says this is voluntary. The coach says this is voluntary. The contract says this is voluntary.
If you want something done, put it in writing.
Voluntary but not voluntary unwritten rules aren't professionalism. It's like playing the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" wife game.
If you want to hold people to a standard, then put the standard in black and white on paper. This is true for everything in the professional world from the board room to legal to manufacturing quality.
Toney is well within his rights not to show up at a voluntary workout, but for a guy who had all kinds of issues finding his way onto the field last summer, and then during the regular season, you can at least understand why some people would question his motivation, can't you?
He's 23 with no wife and no family - I'm sure his calendar is booked solid all thru the spring.
Who knows. We don't know. Players have different family situations. Does he not have a kid? Or any family whatsoever? These are questions we wouldn't want strangers in our personal space about. If I asked you how much you take home per year you'd say none of your business.
I guess we should cut our losses now before these malcontent, dead weight losers corrupt the team even more:
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Azeez Ojulari
Xavier McKinney
Haha you were only able to name 4 players worth keeping from a 4-year tenure.
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I guess we should cut our losses now before these malcontent, dead weight losers corrupt the team even more:
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Azeez Ojulari
Xavier McKinney
Haha you were only able to name 4 players worth keeping from a 4-year tenure.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
Why would they have to trade him for a player?
I'd take draft compensation.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
If they decide he isn’t worth the time and future investment, then should shed him sooner vs. later. And as noted above, they can market him for picks.
You really want to align yourself with Gettleman decisions like you did in that post?
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And then bring up utterly stupid ideas like trading a first round pick from last year who would have a dead cap hit of 5+M and negative salary cap savings of 2.3M. And you have to pay the guy you traded for if there is a team stupid enough get themselves locked in to his remaining guaranteed contract.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
If they decide he isn’t worth the time and future investment, then should shed him sooner vs. later. And as noted above, they can market him for picks.
You really want to align yourself with Gettleman decisions like you did in that post?
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And then bring up utterly stupid ideas like trading a first round pick from last year who would have a dead cap hit of 5+M and negative salary cap savings of 2.3M. And you have to pay the guy you traded for if there is a team stupid enough get themselves locked in to his remaining guaranteed contract.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
Why would they have to trade him for a player?
I'd take draft compensation.
But at the end of the day he is a head case.
Good luck with that.
Again, stop comparing Toney to OBJ. OBJ set records his rookie year, Toney ... produces records.
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I guess we should cut our losses now before these malcontent, dead weight losers corrupt the team even more:
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Azeez Ojulari
Xavier McKinney
Haha you were only able to name 4 players worth keeping from a 4-year tenure.
And Thomas was the #4 overall pick in a draft with 4 franchise OTs, meaning it was mathematically impossible for Gettleman to screw the pick up.
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In comment 15658844 AnnapolisMike said:
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And then bring up utterly stupid ideas like trading a first round pick from last year who would have a dead cap hit of 5+M and negative salary cap savings of 2.3M. And you have to pay the guy you traded for if there is a team stupid enough get themselves locked in to his remaining guaranteed contract.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
Why would they have to trade him for a player?
I'd take draft compensation.
And you are still paying to fill his spot, all because the 10 cent head decided to skip a voluntary workout?
It's not just the workouts, it's a troubling pattern that I notice a lot of folks are trying to rationalize their way out of.
A few years ago, I would have been doing the same thing.
I really do not believe Toney is a long-term answer here. Terrible pick? I don't think I'd go that far because he clearly has talent, but I don't see him as a WR1 or a guy you're going to rely on to bring in 90 balls a year.
It's pretty clear that optics don't matter to him and he's just going to march to the beat of his own drum. I was willing to stick my neck out for Beckham because he was at least electric on the football field and was a TD machine his first few years.
Toney hasn't shown anything other than elite change of direction skills.
I just don't see this turning into something fruitful where he's a regular producer here and plays out his rookie deal w/ NYG. I'd love to be wrong, but I certainly wouldn't balk at trading him if a fair offer were out there.