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| Conspiracy theories aside, the Giants sounded the "Jones is gonna be just fine" sirens soon after Judge and Gettleman were gone in January. They did not, however, exercise the fifth-year option on Jones' rookie contract, something teams routinely do when they are completely satisfied with the progress of any young player, particularly a quarterback (unless they offer that player a hefty new deal instead). Jones ranked 26th in DVOA last year, his third straight season in the bottom quartile among starters. He ranked third-worst in failed completions and dead last among 34 qualified starters in ALEX. There were extenuating circumstances, like the inscrutable Judge, paint-by-numbers coordinator Jason Garrett, and another season behind a flimsy offensive line. There were also a few positive indicators. Per Sports Info Solutions, Jones ranked fifth in adjusted net yards per attempt on 15-plus-yard passes, ahead of Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford. Still, there aren't nearly enough splits to suggest that Jones is some undiscovered Josh Allen. Even Jones' rushing was a net negative according to DVOA and DYAR. The fifth-year option would cost the Giants a little over $22 million guaranteed in 2023. Failure to exercise the option makes Jones a free agent at the end of the 2022 season. If Jones enjoys a breakout year under Daboll and his staff, the Giants will probably be forced to franchise tag him at a salary of around $35 million. But if Jones cements his status among the bottom quartile of NFL starters and/or suffers through another injury-marred season, the Giants can move on for free. The Giants have until May 2 to decide. As of now, it sure appears that they are hedging in the direction of not anticipating that breakout season. Schoen and Daboll might simply have been waiting to see Jones in the building for a few days, healthy and bushy-tailed, before making their contract decision. Perhaps they are waiting until they process more contracts for players like Adoree' Jackson before they commit any 2023 money to Jones (and defensive tackle Dexter Lawrence, whose fifth-year option will cost the Giants around $11 million to exercise). They possibly have one eye on Baker Mayfield or Jimmy Garoppolo if one becomes available for a third-day draft pick. There are also political factors. Owner John Mara, who hates being portrayed as a meddler but not enough to stop, thinks of Jones as Eli Manning Junior and his Giants as grand custodians of the sport who approach the development of young quarterbacks with old-fashioned patience and care. Mara has made it clear that he wants Jones to get an "intelligent evaluation" under better conditions. Daboll, meanwhile, has his Josh Allen-certified quarterback guru reputation to protect and enhance. Mara hired Daboll to turn Jones into Allen. Daboll knows it. So Daboll must be diplomatic about any potential pivot to Plan B. In summary, Jones isn't the Giants starting quarterback in 2022 because he's still a top prospect. He the Giants starter because: a) he's cheap in 2022; b) any replacement would cost money and resources the team doesn't have; and c) the guy who signs the checks loves him. |
@MikeTanier
's #NYGiants piece today, I went looking for QBs with similar career to Daniel Jones.
🏈DYAR < 0 in Years 1-2
🏈DYAR -300 to 300 in Year 3
🏈300+ Passes in each season
I found 2 similar QB: Joey Harrington + Rick Mirer
This is also a Sam Darnold tweet.
Twitter - ( New Window )
Nothing could possibly sum up John Mara better or more concisely than this.
I think Daboll truly thinks he can make Jones better.....not because of Jones....but that is how good coaches think.
Committing to him for 30+ million scares the hell our of me.
But 20 million seems to offer the Giants some options. I still hold out hope....he can settle in the middle of the pack....win with a good team around him.
Very curious to see how these teams with 25+million commutted to WRs do?
I think Daboll truly thinks he can make Jones better.....not because of Jones....but that is how good coaches think.
Or... that is what he thinks our owner wants to hear. I mentioned this in another thread about John Mara. When he voices his opinion about a player to the GM and head coach, he is putting his thumb on the scale. Neither guy is going to say STFU John you dont know what you are talking about. They have to try to "make it work" or burn another year with Jones just to prove Mara wrong.
The only wild card here is it could be smoke and mirrors because maybe the Giants do like a QB in this year's draft.
For 2022, Jones isn't a choice. He's a lack of options. My guess is that he and Barkley are gone after this season.
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It certainly is an important year....
I think Daboll truly thinks he can make Jones better.....not because of Jones....but that is how good coaches think.
Or... that is what he thinks our owner wants to hear. I mentioned this in another thread about John Mara. When he voices his opinion about a player to the GM and head coach, he is putting his thumb on the scale. Neither guy is going to say STFU John you dont know what you are talking about. They have to try to "make it work" or burn another year with Jones just to prove Mara wrong.
The only wild card here is it could be smoke and mirrors because maybe the Giants do like a QB in this year's draft.
The best option is to draft a QB and start Tyrod Taylor.
Coughlin was losing to the Redskins going 0-3....and probably fired....but pulled out game, made playoff....and stopped an unstoppable NE team.....
I do not except sniffing a playoff run but
Great draft
Fix OL
Modern offense
Pretty easy schedule
Stay healthy
And a Wink defense
I will hold out hope before burying team in 2022.
Committing to him for 30+ million scares the hell our of me.
But 20 million seems to offer the Giants some options. I still hold out hope....he can settle in the middle of the pack....win with a good team around him.
If you have a $20 million quarterback who is in the middle of the pack, you need a different QB, because you're not winning the Super Bowl with the one you have.
Good point. Reaching for a QB just because he's not Jones will likely exacerbate the problem. Let him play out the season and see what happens. If he improves they can extend him, if not walk away.
QBs on Rookie deals is a massive advantage. See KC.
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In conjunction with
@MikeTanier
's #NYGiants piece today, I went looking for QBs with similar career to Daniel Jones.
🏈DYAR < 0 in Years 1-2
🏈DYAR -300 to 300 in Year 3
🏈300+ Passes in each season
I found 2 similar QB: Joey Harrington + Rick Mirer
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There really isn't precedent over the last 40 years for a QB who was as poor as Jones in Years 1-2 and then mediocre in Year 3 to turn into a star.
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re: Daniel Jones. If you only look at QBs who had pass DYAR below replacement in Years 1-2, the ones who turned into stars had breakouts in Year 3, not later: Troy Aikman in 1991 and Josh Allen in 2020. After three years, you know who a guy is.
This is also a Sam Darnold tweet.
Twitter - ( New Window )
I'd probably take Mirer and Harrington over Jones today for 2022.
This leads to JS probably keeping his job but ultimately Mara and his team are meddling big time now.
This then leads to another decade of rotten football.
Just draft BPA and lets see how the season progresses.
Paying Daniel Jones anywhere close to $35M based on 3 poor years and one good year should not be on the table unless he is the league MVP. You can't give him that kind of money based on "Gee, maybe he isn't that bad after all!"
There aren't too many QBs who can be this statistically poor for four years and remain starters in the league. It's getting to the point when you have to ask who has gotten to fail longer before becoming a good QB?
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Owner John Mara, who hates being portrayed as a meddler but not enough to stop
Nothing could possibly sum up John Mara better or more concisely than this.
That really is an outstanding way to put it. Hopefully that line makes it to Mara himself.
But everyone agrees it would be foolish to commit more money to him until we see what this season brings. DJ could in fact have the potential to be a really good QB, but if it isn't happening for him for whatever reasons, the team can't suffer for that.
"Schoen and Daboll are like doctors who are finally giving it to us straight after years of quack remedies. Next year is gonna hurt. But they will do everything they can to not prolong the agony."
For now, I will be optimistic that they know what they're doing, and going to be allowed to do it. Brighter days ahead, boys.
Paying Daniel Jones anywhere close to $35M based on 3 poor years and one good year should not be on the table unless he is the league MVP. You can't give him that kind of money based on "Gee, maybe he isn't that bad after all!"
I don't agree.
First off being a League MVP shouldn't matter.
Good luck to you but more importantly if the new head coach feels as though he has his quarterback after watching him play for an entire year...
..."the past is the past."
Granted I don't see it happening, but if the coach and GM, after an entire off season and season, believe that they have their quarterback, they should extend him.
Just think how rich those three sentences are...
Mara hired Daboll. Wait, what about Schoen?
Daboll knows he has to turn Jones into Allen. Are you kidding me? Allen is infinity more talented than our game manager. There is no way Daboll can do the impossible.
Daboll and Schoen, I agree, are probably walking on eggshells on this decision with Jones because Mara has been very, very vocal the last month that he unequivocally think Jones is the answer at QB.
If Daboll and Schoen truly want to move on from DJ, they are really in shark invested waters at 125 Giants Way...
And here we go.
Certainly there is circumstantial evidence to that effect but absolutely no proof.
I also do not think that Daniel Jones can be labeled as a game manager...
... He hasn't even shown the ability to do that yet.
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Mara hired Daboll to turn Jones into Allen. Daboll knows it. So Daboll must be diplomatic about any potential pivot to Plan B.
Just think how rich those three sentences are...
Mara hired Daboll. Wait, what about Schoen?
Daboll knows he has to turn Jones into Allen. Are you kidding me? Allen is infinity more talented than our game manager. There is no way Daboll can do the impossible.
Daboll and Schoen, I agree, are probably walking on eggshells on this decision with Jones because Mara has been very, very vocal the last month that he unequivocally think Jones is the answer at QB.
If Daboll and Schoen truly want to move on from DJ, they are really in shark invested waters at 125 Giants Way...
I mean this is bold speculation, yes Mara had the final say on a coach but Schoen worked with him for 5 years in Buffalo. I don’t believe for a second Mara hired him under the circumstances he would fix Jones in one year lol. I mean it wouldn’t surprise me but that’s a convenient projection just because he groomed a QB. If anything he’s be all over Kafka on hips he calls the plays
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Are these baseball Sabermetrics geeks?
And here we go.
"Back in my day you could tell how good a QB was by looking at his crew cut!"
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Are these baseball Sabermetrics geeks?
And here we go.
I much prefer making decisions on a QB based on how he makes me feel or whether or not I'd want my daughter to marry him.
Last year the Giants sucked, but would Carson have looked much better in that offense?
It sounds crazy, but Jones at his salary might have value.
...
And as bad as the coaching has been, the talent surrounding Jones hasn’t been any better. Not last season anyway.
...
Those personnel deficiencies showed up all over the field. Jones finished last in the league in targets thrown to open receivers, which is hardly surprising if you’ve watched film of the 2021 Giants offense. The offensive line wasn’t good enough to hold up in protection on long-developing pass plays—New York had the highest rate of blown blocks on five- and seven-step dropbacks, per Sports Info Solutions—so opposing secondaries didn’t have to worry about the deeper areas of the field. Offensive coordinator Jason Garrett was unable to coach around those limitations, so he just called a bunch of hitches and out-breaking routes instead.
...
Those are risky throws, and they’re even harder to make when the defenses can sit on them without having to worry about throws over the top. As the season wore on, defenses squeezed the Giants passing game more and more, forcing Jones to grow more and more conservative:
Before defenses started to clamp down on the passing game, Jones had been playing solid football—even if his traditional stat line didn’t reflect it.
Through the first five weeks of the season, he ranked sixth in Pro Football Focus’s grading, ahead of Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes. But even when things were going well, Jones didn’t have it easy. There were no “layups” provided by Garrett’s scheme, and if Jones needed more time in the pocket or space to make a throw, he had to create it for himself. Good NFL quarterbacks are expected to do those things every so often; for Jones, it was required on most plays.
...
Jones was playing with the difficulty turned up all season. That he was able to get through it without completely imploding is an encouraging sign for a quarterback who had been criticized for erratic decision-making under pressure before last season.
The Ringer: How Will the Giants Answer Their Daniel Jones Question? - ( New Window )
I also do not think that Daniel Jones can be labeled as a game manager...
... He hasn't even shown the ability to do that yet.
That is true. I was trying to be positive. ;)
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I also do not think that Daniel Jones can be labeled as a game manager...
... He hasn't even shown the ability to do that yet.
That is true. I was trying to be positive. ;)
That's precisely the sort of long-range opportunity-cost calculation Gettleman loved to publicly chuckle off. Barkley's fifth-year option was like his going away present to his successors. But then, so were many of the roster and financial decisions the Giants made in 2020 and 2021, when they pretended they were win-now contenders despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
"Jones was playing with the difficulty turned up all season."
No matter your take on Jones, you have to admit those points.
Bottom line though, like I said earlier, we need results and if he's bad, mediocre, unlucky, whatever, we can't wait to get it sorted out.
I guess the actual point here is, if he has a good 2022, it's not an actual outlier in terms of his QB ability, it would be that finally he didn't have to play all the time with the difficultly level turned up.
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As of April of 2022, Barkley may end up costing the Giants James Bradberry, a broken-down running back eating up resources the team needs to retain a quality starting cornerback in his prime.
That's precisely the sort of long-range opportunity-cost calculation Gettleman loved to publicly chuckle off. Barkley's fifth-year option was like his going away present to his successors. But then, so were many of the roster and financial decisions the Giants made in 2020 and 2021, when they pretended they were win-now contenders despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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So Barkley probably will not be traded. His guaranteed contract means he won't get released. He'll join Jones in a zombie backfield, a weekly reminder that the last regime failed so catastrophically that the new regime needs a full year for the radiation to decay to healthy levels before they clean up in earnest.
This is a brilliantly accurate summation of the situation. The radiation decay metaphor is particularly apt.
We went overly conservative with him in the last 2 years, though his ball security was better he lost a lot of his reaction speed and he probably doesn't trust himself after the relentless ball security complaints.
One thing that he does which drives me nuts is run into heavy traffic, shoulder or head down. Its just DUMB
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As of April of 2022, Barkley may end up costing the Giants James Bradberry, a broken-down running back eating up resources the team needs to retain a quality starting cornerback in his prime.
That's precisely the sort of long-range opportunity-cost calculation Gettleman loved to publicly chuckle off. Barkley's fifth-year option was like his going away present to his successors. But then, so were many of the roster and financial decisions the Giants made in 2020 and 2021, when they pretended they were win-now contenders despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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So Barkley probably will not be traded. His guaranteed contract means he won't get released. He'll join Jones in a zombie backfield, a weekly reminder that the last regime failed so catastrophically that the new regime needs a full year for the radiation to decay to healthy levels before they clean up in earnest.
This is why the "wait and see" crowd irks me. We had 4 years of decision making that was rightfully seen as horrible in real time, but were told to "wait and see." Well we waited and have seen, and the DG era Giants were a shit show of epic proportions. Waiting and seeing with DJ (and SB to some extent) is just continuing that era.
Now JS' hands are tied a bit, but it's a shame the first year of his tenure is going to be so marred by the failures of DG.
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But Jones’s situation is a little more complicated—and “complicated” is just a nice way of saying it’s been downright shitty.
...
And as bad as the coaching has been, the talent surrounding Jones hasn’t been any better. Not last season anyway.
...
Those personnel deficiencies showed up all over the field. Jones finished last in the league in targets thrown to open receivers, which is hardly surprising if you’ve watched film of the 2021 Giants offense. The offensive line wasn’t good enough to hold up in protection on long-developing pass plays—New York had the highest rate of blown blocks on five- and seven-step dropbacks, per Sports Info Solutions—so opposing secondaries didn’t have to worry about the deeper areas of the field. Offensive coordinator Jason Garrett was unable to coach around those limitations, so he just called a bunch of hitches and out-breaking routes instead.
...
Those are risky throws, and they’re even harder to make when the defenses can sit on them without having to worry about throws over the top. As the season wore on, defenses squeezed the Giants passing game more and more, forcing Jones to grow more and more conservative:
Before defenses started to clamp down on the passing game, Jones had been playing solid football—even if his traditional stat line didn’t reflect it.
Through the first five weeks of the season, he ranked sixth in Pro Football Focus’s grading, ahead of Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes. But even when things were going well, Jones didn’t have it easy. There were no “layups” provided by Garrett’s scheme, and if Jones needed more time in the pocket or space to make a throw, he had to create it for himself. Good NFL quarterbacks are expected to do those things every so often; for Jones, it was required on most plays.
...
Jones was playing with the difficulty turned up all season. That he was able to get through it without completely imploding is an encouraging sign for a quarterback who had been criticized for erratic decision-making under pressure before last season.
The Ringer: How Will the Giants Answer Their Daniel Jones Question? - ( New Window )
Nice article, but the Giants have a little more time then they make out. They can decline his 5th year option, but that doesn't mean he's definitely gone it just means they might do what no one else has done: decline the option then sign him to another contract anyway or franchise him. Schoen and Daboll have a ton of excuses to go this route, including not being here.
Should be required reading for any fan and anyone within the organization.
Still not sure why Daboll and Schoen would want to come here.
I thought Jones was a reach at 6. That doesn't mean I'm not rooting for him. Let's hope Kafka and Daboll can make some chicken salad around here.
That's exactly what it is. He looks like someone Chris Mara would want to take to Churchill Downs on draft weekend.
textbook case of a guy not being smart enought to know what he doesn't know.
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Is it really because he is a dead ringer for Eli & Cutcliffe connection? And if so...Good Lord.
textbook case of a guy not being smart enought to know what he doesn't know.
Well put
And ask yourself what are the odds that Jones and Barkley will be here next year?
What a mess!
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What’s the alternative is important as well. Now, for those who think we should get a QB at 5 or 7 them Mara is a big problem but that’s not what I’m hearing generally. For those of you who want a QB later on I’m not a fan because that doesn’t seem to work all that well to get a high quality starter. So, the way I see it Jones is the best option for now.
Good point. Reaching for a QB just because he's not Jones will likely exacerbate the problem. Let him play out the season and see what happens. If he improves they can extend him, if not walk away.
Amen. I don’t get the shoot in the dark attitude with selecting a QB this year. We, as Giant fans, have suffered enough. Let’s get things right without risking an additional two or three more years of misery. Let’s see what DJ has. If the Giants don’t feel comfortable with DJ’s play, then move on.
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Mara hired Daboll to turn Jones into Allen. Daboll knows it. So Daboll must be diplomatic about any potential pivot to Plan B.
Just think how rich those three sentences are...
Mara hired Daboll. Wait, what about Schoen?
Daboll knows he has to turn Jones into Allen. Are you kidding me? Allen is infinity more talented than our game manager. There is no way Daboll can do the impossible.
Daboll and Schoen, I agree, are probably walking on eggshells on this decision with Jones because Mara has been very, very vocal the last month that he unequivocally think Jones is the answer at QB.
If Daboll and Schoen truly want to move on from DJ, they are really in shark invested waters at 125 Giants Way...
As usual you never fail to take the darkest leaps imaginable.
We of course don't know any of this shit to be true other than we know Mara said he "believes in Daniel Jones."
But yea, go ahead and make it into something it's not. We love to do that these days. "Shark infested waters"
Mara hired these people to do what they need to do in order to win. He hired OUTSIDERS...something 90% of BBI said Mara would never ever do.
Now BBI pivots to grumble about something else...now it's MAra will never let Jones be cast aside...
Remember when Mara wasn't going to let anyone draft a young QB because he loved Eli so much. Then 2019 happened, literally one year after half this place said those exact words.
Let it play out.
There isn't one owner in the NFL, if put on the spot right this second and one who owns a team with a "shaky starting QB" would come out and say anything other than "we believe in QB."
And if you think otherwise or think the owner should be more open and honest you're a fucking fool.
MAra did nothing here wrong. He offered up some lip service about his starting QB and of course these knuckleheads, with literally no true inside source to speak of, now can't wait to offer up some rumor or made up gossip mixed in with some a fact here and there, all staged to generate buzz.
These guys know nothing about the relationship with Mara and the front office.
If Daboll and Schoen truly want to move on from DJ, they are really in shark invested waters at 125 Giants Way...
On which market do you have to invest in sharks? Fulton Fish?
McVay made Goff look like an all pro (took a whole year+ until BB figured him out).
And, proven wrong annually.
He's the best QB on the team or at least the one with less known warts and he's cheap. The owner likes Jones because Jones acts like a pro. The owner wants him to succeed and in his limited ability to judge talent, thinks he hasn't gotten a fair shake the last 3 years. Is he really wrong? Can we just stop breathing in our own gas for one second and admit that Mara really didn't say anything wrong there? That even if you despise Jones and have a crystal ball telling you he's sunk cost, that it's fair to say the team was BAD around Jones? Ok fine, let's agree.
He's gonna probably fail but he's going to get one more shot because there's no one else here that's any better and behold! If Jones shits the bed over the first 2-3 weeks? The other QB will get a chance to show the world how ordinary he truly is.
"Let it play out!"
*It plays out poorly*
"Who could have possibly predicted this?!"
What does that mean. You got your wish. You got fresh new guys running the show.
Ok fine, cut the guy and let's go with tyrod taylor for 17 weeks.
And nothing changes. We still need a QB and just ate cap space for nothing.
This is why the "wait and see" crowd irks me. We had 4 years of decision making that was rightfully seen as horrible in real time, but were told to "wait and see." Well we waited and have seen, and the DG era Giants were a shit show of epic proportions. Waiting and seeing with DJ (and SB to some extent) is just continuing that era.
Now JS' hands are tied a bit, but it's a shame the first year of his tenure is going to be so marred by the failures of DG.
Good post. There really needs to be a full exorcism of everything DG.
Schoen and Daboll should go to Mara and say the best action for the team in 2022 is to "see you in 2023". They want a mulligan; and the cranes, wrecking balls and explosive experts are on the way do for the tear down.
Trying to thread the needle with some balance approach of part tear down/part trying to compete/part trying to build another team for Jones is very likely going to create even more drag on the situation. I'd be tremendously happy as a fan if 2022 is a year for tryouts of new and current talent.
- $8M in cap space (he's not an $8M player)
- snaps for another quarterback that might actually be part of the Giants' future
Keeping Jones as the quarterback in 2022 only makes sense of the motivation is to keep him long term. It makes no sense otherwise.
Who in the building is going to be motivated to keep Jones long term?
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This has become an annual plea.
"Let it play out!"
*It plays out poorly*
"Who could have possibly predicted this?!"
tell you what guys. Start a daily thread blasting all the people here that merely wanted to exhibit hope before a season, and get it off your chests. I mean you do it every day, might as well pin a thread.
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This has become an annual plea.
What does that mean. You got your wish. You got fresh new guys running the show.
Ok fine, cut the guy and let's go with tyrod taylor for 17 weeks.
And nothing changes. We still need a QB and just ate cap space for nothing.
Are there new people running the show? Jones being the QB in 2022 doesn't fill me with confidence.
And for the record Taylor is a better player than Jones.
- $8M in cap space (he's not an $8M player)
- snaps for another quarterback that might actually be part of the Giants' future
Keeping Jones as the quarterback in 2022 only makes sense of the motivation is to keep him long term. It makes no sense otherwise.
Who in the building is going to be motivated to keep Jones long term?
I don't think you're getting anything for Jones.
Ok fine, Schoen and Daboll tremble in fear of Mara and don't dare suggest trading him or cutting him.
that's where we are now? That's what I am supposed to believe? then what's the fucking point in even rooting for NYG anymore?
Maybe you're stretching things a bit simply because you cannot fathom that this new staff simply want to see Jones for one more year? Is that even remotely possible or are we going down this weird conspiracy path? I can't think that way.
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In comment 15658947 Go Terps said:
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This has become an annual plea.
What does that mean. You got your wish. You got fresh new guys running the show.
Ok fine, cut the guy and let's go with tyrod taylor for 17 weeks.
And nothing changes. We still need a QB and just ate cap space for nothing.
Are there new people running the show? Jones being the QB in 2022 doesn't fill me with confidence.
And for the record Taylor is a better player than Jones.
Taylor is older. He's a finished product. Jones might not be but I know you disagree there. We all know it. I suspect he's finished too, but ...i'm done...bye!
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In comment 15658947 Go Terps said:
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This has become an annual plea.
"Let it play out!"
*It plays out poorly*
"Who could have possibly predicted this?!"
tell you what guys. Start a daily thread blasting all the people here that merely wanted to exhibit hope before a season, and get it off your chests. I mean you do it every day, might as well pin a thread.
No one gives a shit about your hope or what anyone is rooting for. It has no bearing on anything. What we root for isn't what's real.
Try and pretend you aren't a Giant fan for ten minutes and take an honest objective look at the organization. That is the perspective that would inform all our posts.
Who gives a shit what we're hoping or rooting for?
Terps….with all due respect, there are a lot of uncertainties out there wit DJ and the 2022 QB class. I trust the judgement of Shoen and Daboll. This is a brand new job for both of them, and I don’t think they want to screw this one up. Lot of tepid enthusiasm with this years QB class with most ‘draft pundits’, and that’s not a coincidence. If Shoen and Daboll feel DJ is not the guy, then they will cut bait. I would be very surprised if the draft a QB high in this draft. Most of us could be wrong, but the team needs to do the right thing either way.
What happens is every year you tell us to wait and see. Then around week 4 you melt down and talk about how embarrassed you are. Then in the spring you tell us to wait and see.
Just can't take you seriously.
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In comment 15658947 Go Terps said:
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This has become an annual plea.
"Let it play out!"
*It plays out poorly*
"Who could have possibly predicted this?!"
tell you what guys. Start a daily thread blasting all the people here that merely wanted to exhibit hope before a season, and get it off your chests. I mean you do it every day, might as well pin a thread.
This is what gets me. It's not a matter of having hope or being optimistic. The "always pessimistic" group looks at a dog turd and calls it a dog turd, while certain posters scream and shout that it's a Snickers bar and that anyone who disagrees is a mental midget.
Don't conflate having hope with ignoring evidence. They're not the same
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
I think Daboll truly thinks he can make Jones better.....not because of Jones....but that is how good coaches think.
Committing to him for 30+ million scares the hell our of me.
But 20 million seems to offer the Giants some options. I still hold out hope....he can settle in the middle of the pack....win with a good team around him.
Very curious to see how these teams with 25+million commutted to WRs do?
He's not even the best QB on the roster already.
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In comment 15658956 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15658947 Go Terps said:
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This has become an annual plea.
"Let it play out!"
*It plays out poorly*
"Who could have possibly predicted this?!"
tell you what guys. Start a daily thread blasting all the people here that merely wanted to exhibit hope before a season, and get it off your chests. I mean you do it every day, might as well pin a thread.
This is what gets me. It's not a matter of having hope or being optimistic. The "always pessimistic" group looks at a dog turd and calls it a dog turd, while certain posters scream and shout that it's a Snickers bar and that anyone who disagrees is a mental midget.
Don't conflate having hope with ignoring evidence. They're not the same
There was evidence of positive play in 2020. People hoped for a good 2021 get over it.
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In comment 15658956 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15658947 Go Terps said:
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This has become an annual plea.
"Let it play out!"
*It plays out poorly*
"Who could have possibly predicted this?!"
tell you what guys. Start a daily thread blasting all the people here that merely wanted to exhibit hope before a season, and get it off your chests. I mean you do it every day, might as well pin a thread.
This is what gets me. It's not a matter of having hope or being optimistic. The "always pessimistic" group looks at a dog turd and calls it a dog turd, while certain posters scream and shout that it's a Snickers bar and that anyone who disagrees is a mental midget.
Don't conflate having hope with ignoring evidence. They're not the same
There’s evidence on both sides but you guys just talk in absolutes and ignore them or say they aren’t relative to fit your narrative. Most of the Jones “supporters” here have never said re-sign him or don’t draft a QB this year
1) Sign Jones 5th year option
2) Don't acquire 2023 1st rounder for potential 2023 draft of QB
3) Don't draft QB in any round in 2022
4) 2022 draft is "offense heavy" with multiple from OL, WR and TE taken in rounds 1 through 3.
...
99) Acquire Garoppolo, Mayfield etc and either include Jones in trade or cut him
100) Trade Jones for any pick possible and cut if there are no takers and name Tyrod Taylor the starter
This is what gets me. It's not a matter of having hope or being optimistic. The "always pessimistic" group looks at a dog turd and calls it a dog turd, while certain posters scream and shout that it's a Snickers bar and that anyone who disagrees is a mental midget.
Don't conflate having hope with ignoring evidence. They're not the same
Sound about right? LEt's call it like it is. That's the take I am supposed to buy right now?
I can't do that. I think Mara likes Jones but I think he would allow this regime to do whatever the fuck they want, but maybe I am wrong. I always allow for that possibility because I am not in the room with them all. I think this is a pretty balanced way to look at things.
"As owner he is entitled to his opinion, but I disagree?"
If you have ever worked in any organization outside the military with a hierarchy, you know everything is not a direct order. It is ridiculous to think they would come in and tell the owner they think he is wrong without trying to fix Jones, because Mara believes his struggles are someone else's fault.
Mara shutting up about personnel matters would be the best thing he could do, but that is not how he operates. He always needs to be the dullard behind the curtain.
Coughlin was losing to the Redskins going 0-3....and probably fired....but pulled out game, made playoff....and stopped an unstoppable NE team.....
I do not except sniffing a playoff run but
Great draft
Fix OL
Modern offense
Pretty easy schedule
Stay healthy
And a Wink defense
I will hold out hope before burying team in 2022.
Yep.
QBs on Rookie deals is a massive advantage. See KC.
Most of those QBs have shown enough that the could win a SB. What's the point of $22M for yet another show me?
It's not just performance with DJ, though that's a huge factor. It's also health. Why pick up that option only to watch him miss a huge chunk of the season yet again?
If DJ somehow has a monster season this year and gets tagged, the Giants can then extend him and their 2023 cap hit will still be lower than the 5y option.
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This is what gets me. It's not a matter of having hope or being optimistic. The "always pessimistic" group looks at a dog turd and calls it a dog turd, while certain posters scream and shout that it's a Snickers bar and that anyone who disagrees is a mental midget.
Don't conflate having hope with ignoring evidence. They're not the same
Just save me the bullshit that negative fans predicting doom and gloom are always correct. I've been rooting for NYG for 40 years now and seen this team defy the expectations of many countless times.
I was told right here that the 2011 Giants were going to suck ass. 2007 team was dead men walking. 2005 team was not ready yet.
It aint that easy. Bravo, some of you were right about DG's Giants. Congratulations?
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In comment 15658977 Scooter185 said:
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This is what gets me. It's not a matter of having hope or being optimistic. The "always pessimistic" group looks at a dog turd and calls it a dog turd, while certain posters scream and shout that it's a Snickers bar and that anyone who disagrees is a mental midget.
Don't conflate having hope with ignoring evidence. They're not the same
Just save me the bullshit that negative fans predicting doom and gloom are always correct. I've been rooting for NYG for 40 years now and seen this team defy the expectations of many countless times.
I was told right here that the 2011 Giants were going to suck ass. 2007 team was dead men walking. 2005 team was not ready yet.
It aint that easy. Bravo, some of you were right about DG's Giants. Congratulations?
When was the last time the doom and gloom fans (or as some might call them, realistic humans) were wrong?
either go young and cheap or go big. that's why I would have given serious thought to big game QB hunting. I'd rather pay big for the star then pay kinda big for the dud.
Sound about right? LEt's call it like it is. That's the take I am supposed to buy right now?
I can't do that. I think Mara likes Jones but I think he would allow this regime to do whatever the fuck they want, but maybe I am wrong. I always allow for that possibility because I am not in the room with them all. I think this is a pretty balanced way to look at things.
See I’m torn on this. I mean Mara’s track record tells me not to think anything is actually different this time and he and Chris will still make all the major decisions. He’s already voice his opinion to the media about things that should never be discussed by him. On the contrary he didn’t interview one candidate he had ties to so that gives me hope. I hope Schoen and Daboll would have had the common sense to have some kind of agreement of the hierarchy of decisions when they took the job. I mean would you ever want to be a GM or coach here based on the way Mara operates? If nothing changes we will be looking for a new coach and/or GM in 2 years
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
Are you fucking serious?
DG ran the team into the ground. Took a bad team and made it the worst for his tenure. What part of football do you actually understand? It's not the cap. It's the roster. It's not the management. What part is it?
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In comment 15658986 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15658977 Scooter185 said:
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This is what gets me. It's not a matter of having hope or being optimistic. The "always pessimistic" group looks at a dog turd and calls it a dog turd, while certain posters scream and shout that it's a Snickers bar and that anyone who disagrees is a mental midget.
Don't conflate having hope with ignoring evidence. They're not the same
Just save me the bullshit that negative fans predicting doom and gloom are always correct. I've been rooting for NYG for 40 years now and seen this team defy the expectations of many countless times.
I was told right here that the 2011 Giants were going to suck ass. 2007 team was dead men walking. 2005 team was not ready yet.
It aint that easy. Bravo, some of you were right about DG's Giants. Congratulations?
When was the last time the doom and gloom fans (or as some might call them, realistic humans) were wrong?
2016, probably. Why? Do we need to give out more props?
Most of time there was bickering here not because someone felt the team was going to suck, but how it was delivered day after day here. To be fair it can go both ways.
Whatever...good luck.
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i'm not being objective but i can't go one thread without saying every player drafted by DG is trash.
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
Are you fucking serious?
DG ran the team into the ground. Took a bad team and made it the worst for his tenure. What part of football do you actually understand? It's not the cap. It's the roster. It's not the management. What part is it?
WTF are you talking about? Pick a fight with someone else. I never defended DG.
Presumably yes, but that pick wouldn't come until 2024. So if there was a trade market for him right now, it would be two years sooner, and the general rule of thumb is that each year of delay is worth a round when it comes to draft pick trades, so getting a 5th for him this year would theoretically be the equivalent of a 2024 3rd, which is the highest possible comp pick - and if Darnold and Rosen each garnered 2nds, I'd have to think that DJ would fetch at least a 4th even with Jimmy and Baker hanging out there.
Just save me the bullshit that negative fans predicting doom and gloom are always correct. I've been rooting for NYG for 40 years now and seen this team defy the expectations of many countless times.
I was told right here that the 2011 Giants were going to suck ass. 2007 team was dead men walking. 2005 team was not ready yet.
It aint that easy. Bravo, some of you were right about DG's Giants. Congratulations?
I'm really not in the "being right business" around here.
Now, I'm not hesitant to put my ass on the line about situations, and thus be held accountable when I am wrong (which occurs plenty); but I do not keep score.
I evaluate the circumstances and try to make reasonable conclusions. Do I add colorful language for effect? Sure. But Mara deserves to be crushed with the best language available since he's firmly secured a position as one of the worst owners in professional sports.
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i'm not being objective but i can't go one thread without saying every player drafted by DG is trash.
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
Are you fucking serious?
DG ran the team into the ground. Took a bad team and made it the worst for his tenure. What part of football do you actually understand? It's not the cap. It's the roster. It's not the management. What part is it?
DG never got us a 2nd overall pick.
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i'm not being objective but i can't go one thread without saying every player drafted by DG is trash.
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
Are you fucking serious?
DG ran the team into the ground. Took a bad team and made it the worst for his tenure. What part of football do you actually understand? It's not the cap. It's the roster. It's not the management. What part is it?
Need to address this again and say WTF one more? Where Did I say it wasn't mgmt?
I said any fan that says "all players drafted by DG are trash" needs some perspective.
DG was awful but a few players drafted by him are worth keeping.
BYE! SMOOCHES!!
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In comment 15658978 djm said:
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i'm not being objective but i can't go one thread without saying every player drafted by DG is trash.
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
Are you fucking serious?
DG ran the team into the ground. Took a bad team and made it the worst for his tenure. What part of football do you actually understand? It's not the cap. It's the roster. It's not the management. What part is it?
WTF are you talking about? Pick a fight with someone else. I never defended DG.
Uhhh...
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In comment 15658978 djm said:
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i'm not being objective but i can't go one thread without saying every player drafted by DG is trash.
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
Are you fucking serious?
DG ran the team into the ground. Took a bad team and made it the worst for his tenure. What part of football do you actually understand? It's not the cap. It's the roster. It's not the management. What part is it?
DG never got us a 2nd overall pick.
DG never won more than 5 games. DG never got us 2 SBs.
DG was the worst GM in the NFL, and potentially the worst GM in Giants history.
Relax, Saquads.
Imagine finding more enjoyment in BBI blowing up than actually having the Giants be good.
You tipped your hand.
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Just save me the bullshit that negative fans predicting doom and gloom are always correct. I've been rooting for NYG for 40 years now and seen this team defy the expectations of many countless times.
I was told right here that the 2011 Giants were going to suck ass. 2007 team was dead men walking. 2005 team was not ready yet.
It aint that easy. Bravo, some of you were right about DG's Giants. Congratulations?
I'm really not in the "being right business" around here.
Now, I'm not hesitant to put my ass on the line about situations, and thus be held accountable when I am wrong (which occurs plenty); but I do not keep score.
I evaluate the circumstances and try to make reasonable conclusions. Do I add colorful language for effect? Sure. But Mara deserves to be crushed with the best language available since he's firmly secured a position as one of the worst owners in professional sports.
That's fine i agree with this word for word. And for the record I might call you out a lot but in the end I think you're a good poster here. You own your takes. I'd like to think I do too but maybe I am guilty of rambling or sort of drifting into rantville. I try to own that too and even go as far to apologize to people here if things get heated.
If I see something I don't agree with I am going to post. I am wrong at times and right at times. When I see people pile on and say that MAra has forced the hand of Schoen, I am going to call it out or at least examine this take.
Having to then return volley on how bad the franchise has been is tiresome. We know that already.
Debating whether it’s been resolved, and skepticism some of those elements remain in the organization seems like a particularly relevant topic to discuss.
Why not? is a perfectly fine rationale for keeping a bottom of the roster guy. It’s an irresponsible rationale for keeping a starting QB.
The Giants need to figure out so much, and soon. Is Daboll a good HC, is Kafka a good OC, is Schoen a good GM, is Barkley worth an extension, is receiver group good enough etc.?
And there’s no time to waste. They need to figure this stuff out ASAP.
If Jones is just there because he’s cheap and the owner likes him, that’s ridiculous.
Cool. The rest of us will hope the Giants become a competitive team.
I get he's an owner and can do whatever he wants. But don't tell me he wants to win when he's injecting himself and his brother into the football operations like a fantasy football owner.
Winning isn't as important to him as doing it the way he and his ridiculous family have been doing it. As fans we're stuck hoping his shitty methods luck into success, because there is no quality methodology here.
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In comment 15659005 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15658978 djm said:
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i'm not being objective but i can't go one thread without saying every player drafted by DG is trash.
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
Are you fucking serious?
DG ran the team into the ground. Took a bad team and made it the worst for his tenure. What part of football do you actually understand? It's not the cap. It's the roster. It's not the management. What part is it?
WTF are you talking about? Pick a fight with someone else. I never defended DG.
Uhhh...
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i'm not being objective but i can't go one thread without saying every player drafted by DG is trash.
You missed the point. Not worth it just move on but I am surprised you're harping on it.
Or do you want to cut the likes of Andrew Thomas, Ojulari and McKinney?
That was my point. He sucked. Full stop. I don't know how many times I need to say that.
I think it's more likely that they all talked and Mara said what he thought and then Schoen and Daboll said their peace and that was that. I don't think Mara is forcing anyone's hand and this is coming from someone who started a thread CRUSHING a few years ago. I crush Mara for his firings/hirings more than any supposed meddling, but maybe he's worse than I feared.
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In comment 15659005 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15658978 djm said:
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i'm not being objective but i can't go one thread without saying every player drafted by DG is trash.
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
Are you fucking serious?
DG ran the team into the ground. Took a bad team and made it the worst for his tenure. What part of football do you actually understand? It's not the cap. It's the roster. It's not the management. What part is it?
DG never got us a 2nd overall pick.
DG never won more than 5 games. DG never got us 2 SBs.
DG was the worst GM in the NFL, and potentially the worst GM in Giants history.
Relax, Saquads.
I mean technically he did contribute to the 2SBs because as a scout he contributed to signing Barrow, Burress, Pierce, Tynes
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In comment 15659013 Spiciest Memelord said:
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In comment 15659005 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15658978 djm said:
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i'm not being objective but i can't go one thread without saying every player drafted by DG is trash.
I said my peace. I don't even like Jones long term here at all....but the middle ground take doesn't jive with the extreme take.
And I still think it's too early to conclude anything about this off-season. Jones could be traded tomorrow for all we know.
Or, he's the best qb on the team and the staff knows this based on their observation. I mean we're talking Tyrod Fucking Taylor here and a supposed weaker QB draft class, although that's not etched in stone either.
Whatever works. Hope everything works out for NYG in the end. That's all I want.
Are you fucking serious?
DG ran the team into the ground. Took a bad team and made it the worst for his tenure. What part of football do you actually understand? It's not the cap. It's the roster. It's not the management. What part is it?
DG never got us a 2nd overall pick.
DG never won more than 5 games. DG never got us 2 SBs.
DG was the worst GM in the NFL, and potentially the worst GM in Giants history.
Relax, Saquads.
I mean technically he did contribute to the 2SBs because as a scout he contributed to signing Barrow, Burress, Pierce, Tynes
Clearly while DG was twiddling his thumbs and only contributed to one measly super bowl.
DG you imgrate!
I like the resumes of Schoen and Daboll. IF they are allowed to run the team as they see fit with minimal (there will always be some) Mara family interference, they have a chance to turn the Giants around.
IF Schoen and Daboll accepted their jobs knowing full well that the Mara family will really be the ones in charge in the shadows, we're doomed.
I think it's more likely that they all talked and Mara said what he thought and then Schoen and Daboll said their peace and that was that. I don't think Mara is forcing anyone's hand and this is coming from someone who started a thread CRUSHING a few years ago. I crush Mara for his firings/hirings more than any supposed meddling, but maybe he's worse than I feared.
Given than we have a new GM and a new HC, if the Giants pick up DJ's 5y option, I'm confident that it was a Mara mandate, since JS and BD will not have seen DJ do anything other than push some dumbbells off his chest before that decision is due to be made.
I think it's more likely that they all talked and Mara said what he thought and then Schoen and Daboll said their peace and that was that. I don't think Mara is forcing anyone's hand and this is coming from someone who started a thread CRUSHING a few years ago. I crush Mara for his firings/hirings more than any supposed meddling, but maybe he's worse than I feared.
The unfortunate result of Mara's past 'meddling' is that any decision Schoen makes that people don't like could be blamed on Mara meddling again. If Schoen is what we hope, he will manage Mara.
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In comment 15658993 djm said:
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Just save me the bullshit that negative fans predicting doom and gloom are always correct. I've been rooting for NYG for 40 years now and seen this team defy the expectations of many countless times.
I was told right here that the 2011 Giants were going to suck ass. 2007 team was dead men walking. 2005 team was not ready yet.
It aint that easy. Bravo, some of you were right about DG's Giants. Congratulations?
I'm really not in the "being right business" around here.
Now, I'm not hesitant to put my ass on the line about situations, and thus be held accountable when I am wrong (which occurs plenty); but I do not keep score.
I evaluate the circumstances and try to make reasonable conclusions. Do I add colorful language for effect? Sure. But Mara deserves to be crushed with the best language available since he's firmly secured a position as one of the worst owners in professional sports.
That's fine i agree with this word for word. And for the record I might call you out a lot but in the end I think you're a good poster here. You own your takes. I'd like to think I do too but maybe I am guilty of rambling or sort of drifting into rantville. I try to own that too and even go as far to apologize to people here if things get heated.
If I see something I don't agree with I am going to post. I am wrong at times and right at times. When I see people pile on and say that MAra has forced the hand of Schoen, I am going to call it out or at least examine this take.
Having to then return volley on how bad the franchise has been is tiresome. We know that already.
It's not going away until the team demonstrates tangible, positive growth on gameday. Hope is fine but it isn't tangible, while actual results are. Why do you torture yourself on these threads? No one you oppose here is suddenly going to choose unwarranted sunshine.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, finally. Giants have been a disaster for more than a decade. Amateur hour in many respects, I wish and hope for the embarrassment to cease.
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if you think Mara is literally forcing Schoen and Daboll to cater to Jones, fucking own it right here.
I think it's more likely that they all talked and Mara said what he thought and then Schoen and Daboll said their peace and that was that. I don't think Mara is forcing anyone's hand and this is coming from someone who started a thread CRUSHING a few years ago. I crush Mara for his firings/hirings more than any supposed meddling, but maybe he's worse than I feared.
The unfortunate result of Mara's past 'meddling' is that any decision Schoen makes that people don't like could be blamed on Mara meddling again. If Schoen is what we hope, he will manage Mara.
Beat it, Mike. You cast your die with your previous post. You'd prefer to seek entertainment from a BBI meltdown than to have the Giants be good at football.
I think it’s worse. I think they don’t feel they influence or interrupt.
But anyone who’s ever worked for an owner, investor, board etc., that claims they are hands off, but everyone in the building knows their opinions and preferences — knows how disruptive that is.
Given than we have a new GM and a new HC, if the Giants pick up DJ's 5y option, I'm confident that it was a Mara mandate, since JS and BD will not have seen DJ do anything other than push some dumbbells off his chest before that decision is due to be made.
Do you actually believe the only information the they have on Jones is how much he can curl? I suppose they have refused to watch any tape, look at medicals, watch him this week. It's fine to want the Giants to move on, but it leads to some really silly comments.
I think it’s worse. I think they don’t feel they influence or interrupt.
But anyone who’s ever worked for an owner, investor, board etc., that claims they are hands off, but everyone in the building knows their opinions and preferences — knows how disruptive that is.
And the good managers will manage the situation...the bad ones will be walked all over. We all know why Gettleman was brought it...continuity. I do not believe Schoen was brought in for that.
QBs on Rookie deals is a massive advantage. See KC.
Since when? He signed that $500M extension right after winning the SB.
Like just about any other profession when your don't do your job well supervision amps up. In the Giants case it means Mara meddling.
Progress Wins LMM
Minimal Progress Few Wins HMM
For a guy that had Jones rated so highly and supported him early on that’s harsh! Who’s your favorite QB in this draft? Hopefully we don’t draft him whoever it is. ,
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For Jones's sake the less Schoen and Daboll know about him, the better.
For a guy that had Jones rated so highly and supported him early on that’s harsh! Who’s your favorite QB in this draft? Hopefully we don’t draft him whoever it is. ,
I did think he was the second best QB in that draft. Then I watched him play and I did this crazy thing called thinking. I formed an opinion based on what was actually happening, and not what I wanted to see.
I know we're not supposed to do much of it but I can't help myself.
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In comment 15659061 Go Terps said:
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For Jones's sake the less Schoen and Daboll know about him, the better.
For a guy that had Jones rated so highly and supported him early on that’s harsh! Who’s your favorite QB in this draft? Hopefully we don’t draft him whoever it is. ,
I did think he was the second best QB in that draft. Then I watched him play and I did this crazy thing called thinking. I formed an opinion based on what was actually happening, and not what I wanted to see.
I know we're not supposed to do much of it but I can't help myself.
So you thought he was that good without watching him? But yesterday you said he was trash coming out and the other day you said he was an UFA type….
Missing on him want the Giants' sin. Anyone can miss. The dishonest assessment of his rookie year - that was the sin.
Murray is flawed but better than Jones.
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Jones was the best QB in that draft.
Murray is flawed but better than Jones.
He's a crybaby munchkin who throws teammates under the bus and makes business decisions and needs to be babysat by his college coach.
Gun to my head, I might pick Jones. Although Murray is probably a better solution in a situation like he is in, an offense catered to his skillset. Definitely better than the Giants and disregarding Jones skillset and trying to plug him into a square hole.
Whatever side you fall on, the fact that Jones is still here has nothing to do with what Mara thinks than what the Giants options are. I don't think you'd get a 7th round pick for him at this point, not with coming back from a neck injury. If someone wants him, they'll take a flyer when he's cut next year. If you cut him now, we incur a dead-money hit, which we have enough of already. If he's not the best QB on the team (I think he is), he is at least the one with the most upside, which is sad but also true.
At best, he's third. Behind Murray and Minshew.
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Owner John Mara, who hates being portrayed as a meddler but not enough to stop
Nothing could possibly sum up John Mara better or more concisely than this.
It's perfect
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In comment 15659093 Spiciest Memelord said:
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Jones was the best QB in that draft.
Murray is flawed but better than Jones.
He's a crybaby munchkin who throws teammates under the bus and makes business decisions and needs to be babysat by his college coach.
Gun to my head, I might pick Jones. Although Murray is probably a better solution in a situation like he is in, an offense catered to his skillset. Definitely better than the Giants and disregarding Jones skillset and trying to plug him into a square hole.
Even accepting the flaws you pointed out, he's leaps and bounds better than Jones.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
Quote:
I m neither convinced he is or is not the answer ,but am in the camp of being convinced going with him this season makes the most sense.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
I'd agree, but some of the detractors here also want him gone now, and a new QB at any cost. I disagree with that, because its robbing peter to pay paul. The options the Giants have are limited, and Schoen is acting like it, appropriately.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
This is where I stand.
Quote:
I m neither convinced he is or is not the answer ,but am in the camp of being convinced going with him this season makes the most sense.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
Yea, my mortgage is very small at this stage of life. 🥴
Quote:
I m neither convinced he is or is not the answer ,but am in the camp of being convinced going with him this season makes the most sense.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
Which is probably about the odds of any of the quarterbacks in the upcoming draft to succeed.
This is why many of us favor keeping Jones for this season. We pretty much get the same odds and we get a premium draft pick at a different position.
Opinion: my dog will never be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Your reasoning is summed up by Lisa Simpson:
Fact: ignoring existing evidence to chase a desired outcome when implementing policy is bad management.
Opinion: my dog will never be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Your reasoning is summed up by Lisa Simpson:
Fact: ignoring existing evidence to chase a desired outcome when implementing policy is bad management.
Thus you reinforce the last point of my post
Never saw this Simpson thing though, enjoyed it
Quote:
Fact: my dog has never shown she can be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Opinion: my dog will never be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Your reasoning is summed up by Lisa Simpson:
Fact: ignoring existing evidence to chase a desired outcome when implementing policy is bad management.
Thus you reinforce the last point of my post
Never saw this Simpson thing though, enjoyed it
Quote:
In comment 15659185 joeinpa said:
Quote:
I m neither convinced he is or is not the answer ,but am in the camp of being convinced going with him this season makes the most sense.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
Which is probably about the odds of any of the quarterbacks in the upcoming draft to succeed.
This is why many of us favor keeping Jones for this season. We pretty much get the same odds and we get a premium draft pick at a different position.
No. You could not trade Jones and get a 1st or 2nd. Puckett will cost a 1st.
Pickett is more valuable than Jones. And more likely to succeed.
Quote:
In comment 15659185 joeinpa said:
Quote:
I m neither convinced he is or is not the answer ,but am in the camp of being convinced going with him this season makes the most sense.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
Which is probably about the odds of any of the quarterbacks in the upcoming draft to succeed.
This is why many of us favor keeping Jones for this season. We pretty much get the same odds and we get a premium draft pick at a different position.
Precisely
You can apply the logic you're using on Jones to any depth chart QB in the NFL: "Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not there."
Quote:
In comment 15659185 joeinpa said:
Quote:
I m neither convinced he is or is not the answer ,but am in the camp of being convinced going with him this season makes the most sense.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
Which is probably about the odds of any of the quarterbacks in the upcoming draft to succeed.
This is why many of us favor keeping Jones for this season. We pretty much get the same odds and we get a premium draft pick at a different position.
The odds for Jones are far lower. He isn't a random dice throw.
Further, it doesn't have to be a premium pick. You could trade Jones for a 7th, use that 7th on Bailey Zappe, and you've gained cap space and three years of a rookie QB contract.
What have you lost?
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In comment 15659188 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15659185 joeinpa said:
Quote:
I m neither convinced he is or is not the answer ,but am in the camp of being convinced going with him this season makes the most sense.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
Which is probably about the odds of any of the quarterbacks in the upcoming draft to succeed.
This is why many of us favor keeping Jones for this season. We pretty much get the same odds and we get a premium draft pick at a different position.
The odds for Jones are far lower. He isn't a random dice throw.
Further, it doesn't have to be a premium pick. You could trade Jones for a 7th, use that 7th on Bailey Zappe, and you've gained cap space and three years of a rookie QB contract.
What have you lost?
I disagree. Zappe is a lesser version of Lauletta or Fromm, both of whom are worse than Jones. His arm strength is nowhere near NFL caliber.
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In comment 15659188 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15659185 joeinpa said:
Quote:
I m neither convinced he is or is not the answer ,but am in the camp of being convinced going with him this season makes the most sense.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
Which is probably about the odds of any of the quarterbacks in the upcoming draft to succeed.
This is why many of us favor keeping Jones for this season. We pretty much get the same odds and we get a premium draft pick at a different position.
The odds for Jones are far lower. He isn't a random dice throw.
Further, it doesn't have to be a premium pick. You could trade Jones for a 7th, use that 7th on Bailey Zappe, and you've gained cap space and three years of a rookie QB contract.
What have you lost?
You lost a good deep ball thrower and gained the worst
You gain cap space. You gain years. You lose a year of Daniel Jones.
You gain cap space. You gain years. You lose a year of Daniel Jones.
Considering Tyrod Taylor has never made it through a season healthy when they played 16 games there is no 7th Round pick that I feel comfortable inserting. That negates any cap savings and keeping Jones but taking someone next year gives us an additional year of 1 QB on a rookie contract.
I don’t get it either, Jones is what he is, but unfortunately there isn’t a better option for less cost for this year at this point.
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In comment 15659206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Fact: my dog has never shown she can be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Opinion: my dog will never be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Your reasoning is summed up by Lisa Simpson:
Fact: ignoring existing evidence to chase a desired outcome when implementing policy is bad management.
Thus you reinforce the last point of my post
Never saw this Simpson thing though, enjoyed it
You haven’t been paying attention if you really believe that.
Quote:
In comment 15659211 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15659206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Fact: my dog has never shown she can be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Opinion: my dog will never be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Your reasoning is summed up by Lisa Simpson:
Fact: ignoring existing evidence to chase a desired outcome when implementing policy is bad management.
Thus you reinforce the last point of my post
Never saw this Simpson thing though, enjoyed it
You haven’t been paying attention if you really believe that.
But this is not the first time you resort to attacking the poster for dissenting points of view, it s your M. O. It s all good though
In a year where the Giants are scraping the barrel for cap space, and seemingly committed to limiting the amount of money they kick down the can, there certainly is reason to consider this.
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
Quote:
In comment 15659188 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15659185 joeinpa said:
Quote:
I m neither convinced he is or is not the answer ,but am in the camp of being convinced going with him this season makes the most sense.
My disagreement with his detractors is the certainty with which opinions are presented as facts.
Fact - he has not played well.
Opinion,- he never will.
Presenting the latter as fact is what I rail against, but I never seem to win that debate with the dissenters
I wouldn't interpret it that way, actually.
His detractors, like me, look at three years of ineffective play and assume that the odds for another ineffective year are very high.
Could Jones pop? Absolutely. There is probably a 15-20% chance. But would you bet your mortage on it?
Which is probably about the odds of any of the quarterbacks in the upcoming draft to succeed.
This is why many of us favor keeping Jones for this season. We pretty much get the same odds and we get a premium draft pick at a different position.
No. You could not trade Jones and get a 1st or 2nd. Puckett will cost a 1st.
Pickett is more valuable than Jones. And more likely to succeed.
Just keeping him while he's cheap and letting him hold a place while the GM uses the premium pick (not used on a 2022 QB) on a different premium player.
In a year where the Giants are scraping the barrel for cap space, and seemingly committed to limiting the amount of money they kick down the can, there certainly is reason to consider this.
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
True, but really only opinion that matters probably doesn’t read BBI.
In a year where the Giants are scraping the barrel for cap space, and seemingly committed to limiting the amount of money they kick down the can, there certainly is reason to consider this.
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
Right so why would anyone trade for him?
Quote:
In comment 15659237 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15659211 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15659206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Fact: my dog has never shown she can be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Opinion: my dog will never be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Your reasoning is summed up by Lisa Simpson:
Fact: ignoring existing evidence to chase a desired outcome when implementing policy is bad management.
Thus you reinforce the last point of my post
Never saw this Simpson thing though, enjoyed it
You haven’t been paying attention if you really believe that.
But this is not the first time you resort to attacking the poster for dissenting points of view, it s your M. O. It s all good though
What is your dissenting point of view? I saw you just a few days ago mock a poster for criticizing Jones' ability to process the field - a common criticism that guys like Sy and JonC have also made. You seem to just want to whine and bitch about any Jones criticism.
Your contribution to this thread - that we don't 'know' about Jones - is one of the more useless things posted here. Instead of articulating a cogent case in support of Jones you criticize others for voicing theirs. We have three years of data to use to try to analyze and project Jones' future. But somehow you got nothing out of those three years - and are also upset that others seemingly did.
True, but really only opinion that matters probably doesn’t read BBI.
If this is the conclusion to the debate — is there really any reason to discuss things among fans?
There are only a handful of posters delusional enough to believe how they feel impacts things. But then again that’s probably a few than actually think Jones will play well.
Quote:
In comment 15659447 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15659237 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15659211 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15659206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Fact: my dog has never shown she can be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Opinion: my dog will never be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Your reasoning is summed up by Lisa Simpson:
Fact: ignoring existing evidence to chase a desired outcome when implementing policy is bad management.
Thus you reinforce the last point of my post
Never saw this Simpson thing though, enjoyed it
You haven’t been paying attention if you really believe that.
But this is not the first time you resort to attacking the poster for dissenting points of view, it s your M. O. It s all good though
What is your dissenting point of view? I saw you just a few days ago mock a poster for criticizing Jones' ability to process the field - a common criticism that guys like Sy and JonC have also made. You seem to just want to whine and bitch about any Jones criticism.
Your contribution to this thread - that we don't 'know' about Jones - is one of the more useless things posted here. Instead of articulating a cogent case in support of Jones you criticize others for voicing theirs. We have three years of data to use to try to analyze and project Jones' future. But somehow you got nothing out of those three years - and are also upset that others seemingly did.
It’s a good thing we didn’t use Eli’s first three years to project his future. PHEW!
Quote:
In comment 15659448 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15659447 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15659237 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15659211 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15659206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Fact: my dog has never shown she can be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Opinion: my dog will never be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Your reasoning is summed up by Lisa Simpson:
Fact: ignoring existing evidence to chase a desired outcome when implementing policy is bad management.
Thus you reinforce the last point of my post
Never saw this Simpson thing though, enjoyed it
You haven’t been paying attention if you really believe that.
But this is not the first time you resort to attacking the poster for dissenting points of view, it s your M. O. It s all good though
What is your dissenting point of view? I saw you just a few days ago mock a poster for criticizing Jones' ability to process the field - a common criticism that guys like Sy and JonC have also made. You seem to just want to whine and bitch about any Jones criticism.
Your contribution to this thread - that we don't 'know' about Jones - is one of the more useless things posted here. Instead of articulating a cogent case in support of Jones you criticize others for voicing theirs. We have three years of data to use to try to analyze and project Jones' future. But somehow you got nothing out of those three years - and are also upset that others seemingly did.
It’s a good thing we didn’t use Eli’s first three years to project his future. PHEW!
Another stupid point. Eli had years where he was top five in touchdowns, led a top ten offense, and made the playoffs during those three years.
I was a believer in Eli those three years because he produced. Inconsistent, had dumb turnovers, but he produced. Hell, I thought Eli would win (regular season) MVPs, be an All-Pro, etc. I actually overestimated him.
Quote:
Trading Daniel Jones before the 3rd day of training camp saves the Giants 4.2M dollars and nets whatever it nets in comp.
In a year where the Giants are scraping the barrel for cap space, and seemingly committed to limiting the amount of money they kick down the can, there certainly is reason to consider this.
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
Right so why would anyone trade for him?
With all due respect, this is such a vapid reply.
Who cares why anyone would trade for Jones. Do you think a GM says to another GM, "Gee, I know were trying to trade this guy, but why the hell do you want him?"
There is enough past intel with other QBs similar to Jones that tells us there is very likely a market.
Right so why would anyone trade for him?
Easy. Plenty of teams aren’t pathetically cash strapped this year. Jones can sit and learn behind a genuine pro, and if he rehabs his reputation get a second shot like Trubisky, which can net a comp pick.
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In comment 15659480 christian said:
Quote:
Trading Daniel Jones before the 3rd day of training camp saves the Giants 4.2M dollars and nets whatever it nets in comp.
In a year where the Giants are scraping the barrel for cap space, and seemingly committed to limiting the amount of money they kick down the can, there certainly is reason to consider this.
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
Right so why would anyone trade for him?
With all due respect, this is such a vapid reply.
Who cares why anyone would trade for Jones. Do you think a GM says to another GM, "Gee, I know were trying to trade this guy, but why the hell do you want him?"
There is enough past intel with other QBs similar to Jones that tells us there is very likely a market.
A market for a guy coming off a neck injury making like $5M that “won’t play well next year” and is then a free agent? Cool, can’t wait to take advantage of said team!
You mean Manning’s 2nd year where he was 4th in TDs and 5th in yards and went to the playoffs? Or his 3rd year where he was 11th in yards and 4th in TDs and went to the playoffs?
Quote:
But Jones’s situation is a little more complicated—and “complicated” is just a nice way of saying it’s been downright shitty.
...
And as bad as the coaching has been, the talent surrounding Jones hasn’t been any better. Not last season anyway.
...
Those personnel deficiencies showed up all over the field. Jones finished last in the league in targets thrown to open receivers, which is hardly surprising if you’ve watched film of the 2021 Giants offense. The offensive line wasn’t good enough to hold up in protection on long-developing pass plays—New York had the highest rate of blown blocks on five- and seven-step dropbacks, per Sports Info Solutions—so opposing secondaries didn’t have to worry about the deeper areas of the field. Offensive coordinator Jason Garrett was unable to coach around those limitations, so he just called a bunch of hitches and out-breaking routes instead.
...
Those are risky throws, and they’re even harder to make when the defenses can sit on them without having to worry about throws over the top. As the season wore on, defenses squeezed the Giants passing game more and more, forcing Jones to grow more and more conservative:
Before defenses started to clamp down on the passing game, Jones had been playing solid football—even if his traditional stat line didn’t reflect it.
Through the first five weeks of the season, he ranked sixth in Pro Football Focus’s grading, ahead of Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes. But even when things were going well, Jones didn’t have it easy. There were no “layups” provided by Garrett’s scheme, and if Jones needed more time in the pocket or space to make a throw, he had to create it for himself. Good NFL quarterbacks are expected to do those things every so often; for Jones, it was required on most plays.
...
Jones was playing with the difficulty turned up all season. That he was able to get through it without completely imploding is an encouraging sign for a quarterback who had been criticized for erratic decision-making under pressure before last season.
The Ringer: How Will the Giants Answer Their Daniel Jones Question? - ( New Window )
I disagree in the allocation of blame the author places on the surrounding environment but I thought this was a thoughtful article. Thanks for posting.
Quote:
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
Right so why would anyone trade for him?
Easy. Plenty of teams aren’t pathetically cash strapped this year. Jones can sit and learn behind a genuine pro, and if he rehabs his reputation get a second shot like Trubisky, which can net a comp pick.
The Bears got a 7th round comp pick for Trubisky, the Bills nothing . So trade a 7th and get a 7th back? That’s the reason?
Quote:
It’s a good thing we didn’t use Eli’s first three years to project his future. PHEW!
You mean Manning’s 2nd year where he was 4th in TDs and 5th in yards and went to the playoffs? Or his 3rd year where he was 11th in yards and 4th in TDs and went to the playoffs?
Yes that 2nd year.,..4th lowest completion percentage and 2nd most INTS. And look at how many of those yards were dumpoffs to Tiki.
And I’m not sure you want to mention that playoff game…
And don’t
The Bears got a 7th round comp pick for Trubisky, the Bills nothing . So trade a 7th and get a 7th back? That’s the reason?
If Jones plays even a menial amount of snaps and earns a moderate contract he can net a comp pick. He can also play the part of supportive, smart backup (probably his destiny), which is a fine value for 4.2M for a year.
Of course they’ve said publicly they like Jones. Any professional with half a brain would know to never say otherwise until the time comes to make a hard decision
Mara heard that, and as it was exactly what he wanted to hear, he spent a couple weeks telling everyone he talked to the Giants like Jones
As others said above, that adds significant undue pressure on Schoen, as a decision to move on from Jones will give the media ample grist for the mill to amp up a Mara-Schoen internal rift.
And we all know how over-sensitive Mara is to how he thinks he’s perceived publicly
And so the game Schoen has to play begins…
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In comment 15659490 TDTONEY said:
Quote:
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
Right so why would anyone trade for him?
Easy. Plenty of teams aren’t pathetically cash strapped this year. Jones can sit and learn behind a genuine pro, and if he rehabs his reputation get a second shot like Trubisky, which can net a comp pick.
m
The Bears got a 7th round comp pick for Trubisky, the Bills nothing . So trade a 7th and get a 7th back? That’s the reason?
The Bills haven't gotten a comp pick because the 2023 comp picks haven't been awarded.
With all due respect, this is such a vapid reply.
Who cares why anyone would trade for Jones. Do you think a GM says to another GM, "Gee, I know were trying to trade this guy, but why the hell do you want him?"
There is enough past intel with other QBs similar to Jones that tells us there is very likely a market.
A market for a guy coming off a neck injury making like $5M that “won’t play well next year” and is then a free agent? Cool, can’t wait to take advantage of said team!
I can think of four teams who could use Jones as a back-up - Seattle, Cincinatti, Tennessee, and Jax.
Cincinnati makes the most sense. Tennessee would be a solid possibility, but they probably can’t afford to pay his roster bonus. If the Giants pay Jones’s bonus — I’d trade Jones and a 7th for a 5th to Tennessee.
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In comment 15659516 christian said:
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In comment 15659490 TDTONEY said:
Quote:
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
Right so why would anyone trade for him?
Easy. Plenty of teams aren’t pathetically cash strapped this year. Jones can sit and learn behind a genuine pro, and if he rehabs his reputation get a second shot like Trubisky, which can net a comp pick.
m
The Bears got a 7th round comp pick for Trubisky, the Bills nothing . So trade a 7th and get a 7th back? That’s the reason?
The Bills haven't gotten a comp pick because the 2023 comp picks haven't been awarded.
He played like 10 snaps and basically signed for backup money, that’s not getting them anything even if the formula is in their favor
Quote:
In comment 15659531 TDTONEY said:
Quote:
In comment 15659516 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15659490 TDTONEY said:
Quote:
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
Right so why would anyone trade for him?
Easy. Plenty of teams aren’t pathetically cash strapped this year. Jones can sit and learn behind a genuine pro, and if he rehabs his reputation get a second shot like Trubisky, which can net a comp pick.
m
The Bears got a 7th round comp pick for Trubisky, the Bills nothing . So trade a 7th and get a 7th back? That’s the reason?
The Bills haven't gotten a comp pick because the 2023 comp picks haven't been awarded.
He played like 10 snaps and basically signed for backup money, that’s not getting them anything even if the formula is in their favor
That's not how it works. His contract value with Pittsburgh and his playing time in Pittsburgh will determine whether Buffalo receives a comp pick.
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In comment 15659577 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15659531 TDTONEY said:
Quote:
In comment 15659516 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15659490 TDTONEY said:
Quote:
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
Right so why would anyone trade for him?
Easy. Plenty of teams aren’t pathetically cash strapped this year. Jones can sit and learn behind a genuine pro, and if he rehabs his reputation get a second shot like Trubisky, which can net a comp pick.
m
The Bears got a 7th round comp pick for Trubisky, the Bills nothing . So trade a 7th and get a 7th back? That’s the reason?
The Bills haven't gotten a comp pick because the 2023 comp picks haven't been awarded.
He played like 10 snaps and basically signed for backup money, that’s not getting them anything even if the formula is in their favor
That's not how it works. His contract value with Pittsburgh and his playing time in Pittsburgh will determine whether Buffalo receives a comp pick.
Ahh but salary is the heaviest factor and he’s 29th in the league there. Regardless they have signed 12 and lost 7 so they won’t get anything as of now
In a year where the Giants are scraping the barrel for cap space, and seemingly committed to limiting the amount of money they kick down the can, there certainly is reason to consider this.
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
I didn’t know trades counted in the comp formula. Wow! I learn something new every day from these postings. Next, someone will opine that trading a QB somehow increases the salary cap by twice the player’s salary.
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In comment 15659447 joeinpa said:
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In comment 15659237 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15659211 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15659206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Fact: my dog has never shown she can be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Opinion: my dog will never be a good quarterback in the NFL.
Your reasoning is summed up by Lisa Simpson:
Fact: ignoring existing evidence to chase a desired outcome when implementing policy is bad management.
Thus you reinforce the last point of my post
Never saw this Simpson thing though, enjoyed it
You haven’t been paying attention if you really believe that.
But this is not the first time you resort to attacking the poster for dissenting points of view, it s your M. O. It s all good though
What is your dissenting point of view? I saw you just a few days ago mock a poster for criticizing Jones' ability to process the field - a common criticism that guys like Sy and JonC have also made. You seem to just want to whine and bitch about any Jones criticism.
Your contribution to this thread - that we don't 'know' about Jones - is one of the more useless things posted here. Instead of articulating a cogent case in support of Jones you criticize others for voicing theirs. We have three years of data to use to try to analyze and project Jones' future. But somehow you got nothing out of those three years - and are also upset that others seemingly did.
Thought it was pretty clear my point of view….Giants should go with him this season, because it makes the most sense given the options
I often disagree with points to the contrary, I try to do so without attacking the poster.
Name calling kills dialogue, it s why I don’t like it or participate. Surpised you think I do
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Trading Daniel Jones before the 3rd day of training camp saves the Giants 4.2M dollars and nets whatever it nets in comp.
In a year where the Giants are scraping the barrel for cap space, and seemingly committed to limiting the amount of money they kick down the can, there certainly is reason to consider this.
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
I didn’t know trades counted in the comp formula. Wow! I learn something new every day from these postings. Next, someone will opine that trading a QB somehow increases the salary cap by twice the player’s salary.
They don’t
Huh?
How many “prove it” years does it take??
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Trading Daniel Jones before the 3rd day of training camp saves the Giants 4.2M dollars and nets whatever it nets in comp.
In a year where the Giants are scraping the barrel for cap space, and seemingly committed to limiting the amount of money they kick down the can, there certainly is reason to consider this.
The lack of confidence the fans who like him can muster is telling. Virtually no one can say I think he’ll play well next year.
I didn’t know trades counted in the comp formula. Wow! I learn something new every day from these postings. Next, someone will opine that trading a QB somehow increases the salary cap by twice the player’s salary.
Pretty sure Christian meant "comp" as in "compensation" in terms of trade return. Was that lost on you?
How many “prove it” years does it take??
Unfortunately probably three. The DJDF will come up with some reason why he should be kept next year even after he bombs again this season
They weren't the EMFC.
They're the John Mara Fan Club.
They swallow whatever creampie he serves them.
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I can think of four teams who could use Jones as a back-up - Seattle, Cincinatti, Tennessee, and Jax.
Cincinnati makes the most sense. Tennessee would be a solid possibility, but they probably can’t afford to pay his roster bonus. If the Giants pay Jones’s bonus — I’d trade Jones and a 7th for a 5th to Tennessee.
KC needs a backup too. Reid can get whatever he can out of Jones. He would be an upgrade over Henne.
Or... that is what he thinks our owner wants to hear. I mentioned this in another thread about John Mara. When he voices his opinion about a player to the GM and head coach, he is putting his thumb on the scale. Neither guy is going to say STFU John you dont know what you are talking about. They have to try to "make it work" or burn another year with Jones just to prove Mara wrong.
The only wild card here is it could be smoke and mirrors because maybe the Giants do like a QB in this year's draft.
This !!
I find it simply impossible what Mara announced during the hiring process for gm and coach. Namely that they interviewed nearly a dozen gm’s and a half dozen coaches and they were “all in “ in jones???
Yea right !!! Either they knew that Mara made up his mind about Jones playing here and were telling him exactly what he wanted to hear or he is simply lying.
There was not that much consensus around Tom Brady or BREES LET ALONE D JONES
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Or... that is what he thinks our owner wants to hear. I mentioned this in another thread about John Mara. When he voices his opinion about a player to the GM and head coach, he is putting his thumb on the scale. Neither guy is going to say STFU John you dont know what you are talking about. They have to try to "make it work" or burn another year with Jones just to prove Mara wrong.
The only wild card here is it could be smoke and mirrors because maybe the Giants do like a QB in this year's draft.
This !!
I find it simply impossible what Mara announced during the hiring process for gm and coach. Namely that they interviewed nearly a dozen gm’s and a half dozen coaches and they were “all in “ in jones???
Yea right !!! Either they knew that Mara made up his mind about Jones playing here and were telling him exactly what he wanted to hear or he is simply lying.
There was not that much consensus around Tom Brady or BREES LET ALONE D JONES
History tells us he was just being the same old John Mara. This isn’t some elaborate scheme it’s just reality
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Or... that is what he thinks our owner wants to hear. I mentioned this in another thread about John Mara. When he voices his opinion about a player to the GM and head coach, he is putting his thumb on the scale. Neither guy is going to say STFU John you dont know what you are talking about. They have to try to "make it work" or burn another year with Jones just to prove Mara wrong.
The only wild card here is it could be smoke and mirrors because maybe the Giants do like a QB in this year's draft.
This !!
I find it simply impossible what Mara announced during the hiring process for gm and coach. Namely that they interviewed nearly a dozen gm’s and a half dozen coaches and they were “all in “ in jones???
Yea right !!! Either they knew that Mara made up his mind about Jones playing here and were telling him exactly what he wanted to hear or he is simply lying.
There was not that much consensus around Tom Brady or BREES LET ALONE D JONES
History tells us he was just being the same old John Mara. This isn’t some elaborate scheme it’s just reality
Well maybe he s the John Mara of 2007 again
But I think Taylor has to meaningfully outperform Jones to win the job to start the year. I think a 'slight' Taylor outperformance still results in Jones starting, partially driven by Mara's preferences.
I do agree the Mara hate has gone a little overboard. He did the right think with the Schoen hire.