28 rushes for 77 yards. Went against the formula that had been working.
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
28 rushes for 77 yards. Went against the formula that had been working.
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
28 rushes for 77 yards. Went against the formula that had been working.
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
Do we have a receiver that can get open
Not really. The run game created the PA that had assisted the pass game. Today we just did not have that.
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
28 rushes for 77 yards. Went against the formula that had been working.
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
Do we have a receiver that can get open
Not really. The run game created the PA that had assisted the pass game. Today we just did not have that.
But would receivers that can get open assist that?
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
I watched a complete different game I guesss. Jones had time to throw until the last 2 or 3 drives there was more pressure. These wrs stink
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Can you name a single WR group in the NFL worse than ours? It's a simple question
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Just about EVERY ONE.....case in point, Jones was scrambling for his life looking for a person to pass to....Slayton was jogging away from his defender. JOGGING! I dont think these receivers know how to come back to a ball.
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
You seem to disagree. Just say it then. You can tell me what WR's on the Giants scare opponents and beat coverage easily.
Would good receivers assist play action?
If you have good WR's PA is not a necessity with adequate PP. Seattle obviously said we don't respect your WR's and took the run out of the game. Having Neal and Bellinger out certainly made that decision easy.
One of the few games this year where the Giants could not run between the tackles. I don't recall any through the game.
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
Jones had time today. Just seemed like he was staring down his WRs alot today like he used to.
And stop with the "our WRs can't get open". Wes Welker ran a 4.65 and was always open. He was schemed open
You seem to disagree. Just say it then. You can tell me what WR's on the Giants scare opponents and beat coverage easily.
Would good receivers assist play action?
If you have good WR's PA is not a necessity with adequate PP. Seattle obviously said we don't respect your WR's and took the run out of the game. Having Neal and Bellinger out certainly made that decision easy.
One of the few games this year where the Giants could not run between the tackles. I don't recall any through the game.
Absolutely beside the point. If we have receivers that get open the offense runs more smoothly.
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
Jones had time today. Just seemed like he was staring down his WRs alot today like he used to.
And stop with the "our WRs can't get open". Wes Welker ran a 4.65 and was always open. He was schemed open
Do you know the corresponding time Jones had on those targets.
The average separation is an incomplete data point if you don't know why and how long the QB had to throw the ball to the target.
Nope. But like I said it’s by far I their worst game as a unit so that’s an 8 game sample size with 1 extreme outlier. If you don’t think so I got nothing else for you.
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Can you name a single WR group in the NFL worse than ours? It's a simple question
Maybe not worst, but same level
Texans
Titans
Atlanta (Pitts is a TE)
Bears
Ravens
Saints (since Michael Thomas never plays)
Steelers
Do you know the corresponding time Jones had on those targets.
The average separation is an incomplete data point if you don't know why and how long the QB had to throw the ball to the target.
Nope. But like I said it’s by far I their worst game as a unit so that’s an 8 game sample size with 1 extreme outlier. If you don’t think so I got nothing else for you.
I haven't seen the stats, but I agree with you.
So what's more likely:
1) Basically the same WR group from the last several games got markedly worse against a defense keying the run
2) Down two starting lineman, and the starting TE, the QB had to get the ball out more quickly and had fewer free outlet passes to the TE?
and for a couple different drives; Bob and Carl said during the actual play(s) that Jones would escape the rush and no one was open. I know we have the worst WRs in the league, but these guys have to get open alittle bit more, especially since it's not like this is Seattle's "Legion of Boom" defense and secondary from years ago. These guys just don't get open enough for long stretches of games.
and for a couple different drives; Bob and Carl said during the actual play(s) that Jones would escape the rush and no one was open. I know we have the worst WRs in the league, but these guys have to get open alittle bit more, especially since it's not like this is Seattle's "Legion of Boom" defense and secondary from years ago. These guys just don't get open enough for long stretches of games.
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Can you name a single WR group in the NFL worse than ours? It's a simple question
Maybe not worst, but same level
Texans
Titans
Atlanta (Pitts is a TE)
Bears
Ravens
Saints (since Michael Thomas never plays)
Steelers
Cooks would be our best receiver, Woods would be our best receiver, London would be our best receiver, Mooney would be our best receiver, Duverney would be our best receiver, Olave would be our best receiver, dionate Johnson is one of the top 10 receivers in the NFL.
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
You are having another building a clock when someone asks you time.
You have a clear agenda against Jones.
Get the basics down on the position and the variables around it.
Jones missed a big throw and if film review you can probably find a couple others but this was not a day where guys were running open and missed.
Be better. Or don't. Your choice.
I thought Jones played really well given the circumstances. You're weird.
Not really I just understand the game. As the UCONN posts states about the running game which you agreed to I made comments to that in the other thread.
28 rushes for 77 yards and a 2.8 ypc is not going to cut it with this group of WR's.
I have consistently made this point.
30 rushes at over 4.2 does the trick the majority of the time. This was a point of contention for your crew.
I am sure Googs and Gatorade can join the fight.
It's the reality of the game given the circumstances of the Giants WR corps. Today the OL did okay but little on the outside. Without the running game its tough sledding.
The OL was generally OK today I thought. We are starting our regular LT, C, and RG, with a third round pick at LG and right tackle who has some experience. Obviously, Neal is a difference maker but he’s a rookie, even Sy said there might not be a huge drop off right now between him and Phillips.
Injuries along the OL shouldn’t be an excuse right now.
It's pretty obvious the Giants strength is the run game, and they have a talent deficiency at WR.
Today versus last week? Versus the last several weeks? I'd start with the 2 starters out on the line and the starting TE out.
No one is open is one of those things that's easily provable. I'm not saying it's true or untrue. I'm saying when I watch the game with the regular TV broadcast, I don't think it's possible to know that. And when a replay is shown, the TV broadcast doesn't show all the possible targets.
Lots of people review the games on YouTube with all 22 angles, and I'm sure we'll get actual answers.
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
I also think point and time seperation is a bad measure of whether the target did a good job. The QB decides when to throw.
Logically, stands a good chance if a defense is stacking the box, and playing more 1-1, if the QB is choosing to throw the ball when the defender is closer to the WR, it's because he was hurried.
Not a knock on Jones. Very understandable, they're scraping the barrel for linemen.
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Send Chase and Higgins here and send our receivers to to Cincy. I love to see the results.
What a moronic post. Good to hash this out with Christian a fellow member of the QBGC.
I also think point and time seperation is a bad measure of whether the target did a good job. The QB decides when to throw.
Logically, stands a good chance if a defense is stacking the box, and playing more 1-1, if the QB is choosing to throw the ball when the defender is closer to the WR, it's because he was hurried.
Not a knock on Jones. Very understandable, they're scraping the barrel for linemen.
Good points. And there is the defense at the time: zone, soft man, hard man, etc.
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Send Chase and Higgins here and send our receivers to to Cincy. I love to see the results.
What a moronic post. Good to hash this out with Christian a fellow member of the QBGC.
JFC.
If you don't mind, can you let me know which receivers we should ignore when it comes to separation?
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Send Chase and Higgins here and send our receivers to to Cincy. I love to see the results.
What a moronic post. Good to hash this out with Christian a fellow member of the QBGC.
JFC.
If you don't mind, can you let me know which receivers we should ignore when it comes to separation?
Thanks in advance.
Come on Bw. I already have said you have very little understanding of the QB position and offensive football in general.
You post some good stuff in the college game with recruiting but other than that I don't buy what you are selling.
Now if you figure out the impact of the running game, down/distance, etc. and without it you need three components needed; but until you figure out the basics hard for me to answer any question from you.
Come on Bw. I already have said you have very little understanding of the QB position and offensive football in general.
You post some good stuff in the college game with recruiting but other than that I don't buy what you are selling.
Now if you figure out the impact of the running game, down/distance, etc. and without it you need three components needed; but until you figure out the basics hard for me to answer any question from you.
What does your last paragraph have to do with the discussion?
If you find my posts about the game so moronic, which is fine, then why reply at all to me?
If you can't acknowledge that a QB can help overcome separation issues than it seems you may not know as much as you think.
Come on Bw. I already have said you have very little understanding of the QB position and offensive football in general.
You post some good stuff in the college game with recruiting but other than that I don't buy what you are selling.
Now if you figure out the impact of the running game, down/distance, etc. and without it you need three components needed; but until you figure out the basics hard for me to answer any question from you.
What does your last paragraph have to do with the discussion?
If you find my posts about the game so moronic, which is fine, then why reply at all to me?
If you can't acknowledge that a QB can help overcome separation issues than it seems you may not know as much as you think.
Good attempt at reverse psychology. What impacts separation? Look at today's game when you consider your answer as a suggestion.
Pretty basic question and I will see what you come up with tomorrow if you choose
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Do you honestly not see the fault in referencing 2 of the most talented receivers in the league here?
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Do you honestly not see the fault in referencing 2 of the most talented receivers in the league here?
then we should be seeing great years from a lot more WRs.
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
then we should be seeing great years from a lot more WRs.
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
I'm not arguing it just takes a good QB to offset separation issues. But it certainly helps.
I read all of the time how much Diggs has helped the Buffalo offense. And he does. But the picture being painted around here is Diggs running wide open everywhere and you and I could connect with him. But Diggs was about average last year in separation (better this year, actually)...
But just watch a Buffalo game. Many, many times Allen throws lasers into tight windows where his receivers can make the catch. It's just incredible. Further, he is able to buy time with is scrambling, which allows his receivers more time to create space. And since a DB can't cover a player forever, the coverage breaks down and Allen fires one in there.
I just don't like the conversation being too one-sided and all on the WR. It's both ways - WR AND QB.
then we should be seeing great years from a lot more WRs.
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
I'm not arguing it just takes a good QB to offset separation issues. But it certainly helps.
I read all of the time how much Diggs has helped the Buffalo offense. And he does. But the picture being painted around here is Diggs running wide open everywhere and you and I could connect with him. But Diggs was about average last year in separation (better this year, actually)...
But just watch a Buffalo game. Many, many times Allen throws lasers into tight windows where his receivers can make the catch. It's just incredible. Further, he is able to buy time with is scrambling, which allows his receivers more time to create space. And since a DB can't cover a player forever, the coverage breaks down and Allen fires one in there.
I just don't like the conversation being too one-sided and all on the WR. It's both ways - WR AND QB.
Allen really made some bonehead decisions at the end of the game, which to me, took a little bit away from the win.
then we should be seeing great years from a lot more WRs.
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
I'm not arguing it just takes a good QB to offset separation issues. But it certainly helps.
I read all of the time how much Diggs has helped the Buffalo offense. And he does. But the picture being painted around here is Diggs running wide open everywhere and you and I could connect with him. But Diggs was about average last year in separation (better this year, actually)...
But just watch a Buffalo game. Many, many times Allen throws lasers into tight windows where his receivers can make the catch. It's just incredible. Further, he is able to buy time with is scrambling, which allows his receivers more time to create space. And since a DB can't cover a player forever, the coverage breaks down and Allen fires one in there.
I just don't like the conversation being too one-sided and all on the WR. It's both ways - WR AND QB.
I think a major aspect consistently is missed when discussing a quarterback to wide receiver relationship, which is chemistry. Working together to learn the body language and timing of each other. That is something that just simply can't be measured with statistics but is something that is very real. A qb and wr that know each other well can make up for any 'lack' of separation.
Looks like the corner back is sticking onto him like flypaper. What happened to the earlier Marcus Johnson who was running free down the field?
I don’t know if you guys caught it but Slayton also fell down on a huge play I think it was a 3rd down pass in the 4th quarter. That stopped a drive as well.
Looks like the corner back is sticking onto him like flypaper. What happened to the earlier Marcus Johnson who was running free down the field?
I don’t know if you guys caught it but Slayton also fell down on a huge play I think it was a 3rd down pass in the 4th quarter. That stopped a drive as well.
Next to last drive Slayton fell where we still had a chance to make a one score game/onside kick.
then we should be seeing great years from a lot more WRs.
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
I'm not arguing it just takes a good QB to offset separation issues. But it certainly helps.
I read all of the time how much Diggs has helped the Buffalo offense. And he does. But the picture being painted around here is Diggs running wide open everywhere and you and I could connect with him. But Diggs was about average last year in separation (better this year, actually)...
But just watch a Buffalo game. Many, many times Allen throws lasers into tight windows where his receivers can make the catch. It's just incredible. Further, he is able to buy time with is scrambling, which allows his receivers more time to create space. And since a DB can't cover a player forever, the coverage breaks down and Allen fires one in there.
I just don't like the conversation being too one-sided and all on the WR. It's both ways - WR AND QB.
Very few people are saying Allen is all about Diggs being brought in. He is a huge asset though. Not only is he a great WR but he opens up things for other players.
This is true of any outstanding WR. Fundamental football.
Jim Johnson who was a outstanding DC talked about how he could scheme differently when Plax was out. Not only does it impact the pass game it has a impact on the run game.
I think separation is one element of open, but not always a great measure.
There are lots of routes on the tree where the QB and WR are tasked with making a play in a tight spot. It's also a data point that can be tremendously skewed by a break away play.
I think "no one is open" is a bit premature, and as sophisticated as saying "Jones sucks" after a game.
Open is a nuanced measurement that requires viewing the plays from the all 22 angle.
LOS touched on something that got his pants in a twist last night, which is the assumption I was blaming Jones. Which I wasn't.
Before laying blame on anyone element, I think it's important to review the pass protection, the routes the WRs were asked to run, and the decisions made by the QB.
Maybe some of you are skilled enough football evaluators to make those assessments in real time from the TV broadcast. That's awesome, it really is. I was asking for more detail on that, and didn't get much in return.
You have made many comments in other threads that downplay Jones performance this year.
Interestingly I have never said Jones is the clear cut solution moving forward. I recognize how difficult the position and it is not easily solved.
Yesterday they did not have the elements they had when the were successful. Debate is about how much each of those elements contributed. Not LOS throwing a hissy. Your posts pointed to Jones being the biggest factor.
Yesterday they did not have the elements they had when the were successful. Debate is about how much each of those elements contributed. Not LOS throwing a hissy.Your posts pointed to Jones being the biggest factor.
you guys are getting trolled by the poster who continually wants to have "intellectually honest" debates.
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
You know for this shit gidie gave Terps the other day, the fact this guy is still able to roam this board, post attacks like this and then run away makes no sense. These are the people running people off the board.
Yesterday they did not have the elements they had when the were successful. Debate is about how much each of those elements contributed. Not LOS throwing a hissy.Your posts pointed to Jones being the biggest factor.
Show me where.
Go look at your comments about the "scheme" and how the Giants could easily replace Jones with a few QB's in the draft. When you recognize that your comments will make more sense on this thread.
you guys are getting trolled by the poster who continually wants to have "intellectually honest" debates.
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
You know for this shit gidie gave Terps the other day, the fact this guy is still able to roam this board, post attacks like this and then run away makes no sense. These are the people running people off the board.
I saw where Terps declared himself done with BBI again last night, btw... ;)
Yesterday they did not have the elements they had when the were successful. Debate is about how much each of those elements contributed. Not LOS throwing a hissy.Your posts pointed to Jones being the biggest factor.
Show me where.
Go look at your comments about the "scheme" and how the Giants could easily replace Jones with a few QB's in the draft. When you recognize that your comments will make more sense on this thread.
Those are two pretty different topics.
I think Jones is competently playing within the role Daboll and Kafka have designed for him. I think he played as well or better yesterday than he has all year.
The Giants got their ass kicked upfront.
The only minor criticism I had of Jones yesterday was on a play where he rolled out, I thought he had an opportunity to throw the TE open if he was a little more patient.
I don't think Jones is irreplaceable, and I think Daboll could do a fine job with a first round, talented player.
That does not = Jones is the reason the offensive stalled yesterday.
you guys are getting trolled by the poster who continually wants to have "intellectually honest" debates.
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
You know for this shit gidie gave Terps the other day, the fact this guy is still able to roam this board, post attacks like this and then run away makes no sense. These are the people running people off the board.
FMiC doesn't come on BBI to debate football at all anymore. He just pops in to critisize people, and then runs away.
I'm not a chicken, so I'll never run and tell daddy. But I can't imagine this is the type of behavior that's viewed as productive.
Yesterday they did not have the elements they had when the were successful. Debate is about how much each of those elements contributed. Not LOS throwing a hissy.Your posts pointed to Jones being the biggest factor.
Show me where.
Go look at your comments about the "scheme" and how the Giants could easily replace Jones with a few QB's in the draft. When you recognize that your comments will make more sense on this thread.
Those are two pretty different topics.
I think Jones is competently playing within the role Daboll and Kafka have designed for him. I think he played as well or better yesterday than he has all year.
The Giants got their ass kicked upfront.
The only minor criticism I had of Jones yesterday was on a play where he rolled out, I thought he had an opportunity to throw the TE open if he was a little more patient.
I don't think Jones is irreplaceable, and I think Daboll could do a fine job with a first round, talented player.
That does not = Jones is the reason the offensive stalled yesterday.
He missed plays. The QB's job is to make them.
Most games come down to a few plays you make or don't.
He contributed to the loss not making them.
He is however not as easily replaced as you have suggested. It is a tough position that requires a lot of help. Our WR group scare nobody and Bellinger and Neal being out were a huge contributing factor.
You get to a point where "scheme" is not enough and talent deficiencies show up.
One of the mods seemingly out of nowhere jumped into a thread where GT posted a few straightforward views and a link to a podcast, and he was called a troll that disrupts the site. It was a little intense and out of left field.
I forget the thread (think it was one of the thousand DJ threads), but GT posted four innocuous posts and gidie jumped on him for trolling again.
The posts where basically GT saying what he wouldn't pay Jones (very brief), a post linking an Athletic discussion about NYG & Jones (which was excellent) and a brief exchange he and I had about the QBs in the class of 2024.
So, a few of us expressed our confusion to gidie. But he really didn't want to get into the details.
Terps popped in yesterday, and said he felt he was being baited, and announced his intention to leave.
It was just a very strange situation to call out Terps based on all of the other battles waged.
took 3 tries getting him to respond to a very specific question that he kept dodging. It got to the point where he didn't even want to debate topics anymore and his posts just ended up saying "the facts" when explaining his opinion.
If we can go back in time and get the pre-Jones Terps i'd say this was a loss, but current Terps isn't interested in talking to anyone, just likes telling people what is and isn't a fact then gets mad when called out on it.
Since he's been gone, along with Googs and some of the other trolls that have been banned, the threads have actually be better IMO.
I think Go Terps is stubborn and sees the world in very black and white terms. I've had it out with him since Michael Strahan skipped camp. He and I have had some battles.
But I don't think he comes to BBI with the intention to antagonize people, and doesn't actually believe what he saying our doing.
I don't think he's a troll, because I don't think his intentions are bad.
I've learned a lot about football from him and enjoy debating him.
There are posters who insult posters and name call
on that. He had the crosser but he was definitely keyed on the WR down the sideline. My guess is he thought he had enough room to break through. The result is the result. Missed play.
Googs is a moron. Glad he is gone if that is the case.
I'm sure there are a number of plays when you look at the tape, where the WRs struggle to get open, and a number where Jones fails to make the play (either because he misses it or he's pressured early).
This is the type of context needed to have an adult conversation about what happened.
I'm sure there are a number of plays when you look at the tape, where the WRs struggle to get open, and a number where Jones fails to make the play (either because he misses it or he's pressured early).
This is the type of context needed to have an adult conversation about what happened.
Literally every QB misses open players. Analyzing QBs is challenging for many reasons but one is that you don't know how many guys are open for a QB vs. how many are open for other QBs. Additionally, sometimes you complete a short pass when you had a guy 20 yards downfield wide open. You made a bad play but got a completion.
I think it's helpful to zoom out and look at the stats. Jones is now in his third year where his passing statistics (yards, YPA, touchdowns) are rock bottom for a starting QB. I completely agree the receivers suck. But now we have to make an investment in him. How sure are we he can produce in the passing game? Or do people think that doesn't matter long-term? How much are we willing to invest in being right?
I think Jones can produce touchdowns in the passing game - but that it will result in additional turnovers. I went into the season thinking Jones can't: a) Produce passing stats in-line with a top ten QB, b) can't lead a top third offense, and c) can't produce more TDs without turning the ball over more.
I don't think Jones has repudiated that thesis yet. Maybe he can't given how terrible these wideouts are (I'm open to that thinking but am not convinced).
Lastly, I agree Jones is better this season. We are still 21st in PPG - and that's with Barkley having an All-Pro year. If Jones has top ten caliber weapons, does he get us top ten in PPG? Or is he limited long-term as a passer?
I'm sure there are a number of plays when you look at the tape, where the WRs struggle to get open, and a number where Jones fails to make the play (either because he misses it or he's pressured early).
This is the type of context needed to have an adult conversation about what happened.
While I agree in theory the reality is we don't do this when talking about other teams and those conversations aren't generally halted at "have you watched the all-22 of every packer game?"
IMO Jones has a far smaller margin of error than most if not all other QB's in the league given the circumstances/limitations of the offense. He missed some plays yesterday, no question. But from what I saw those misses were magnified by the lack of chances developing throughout the game. This will likely be the case the rest of the season.
If Daboll and Schoen want to give him another year, I won't shed any either.
I think Jones is playing smart, efficient football. With the lack of talent at the WR/TE positions, and the issues in pass protection, that's pretty good.
But I've said many times, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Daboll and Kafka get that same production out of a rookie next year.
Don’t think Jones is a Super Bowl level QB. But, they also know finding someone better is not a given either. So, if he’s back I think he’ll be on a bridge type contract.
Barkley was the intended but he's initially covered....
Don’t think Jones is a Super Bowl level QB. But, they also know finding someone better is not a given either. So, if he’s back I think he’ll be on a bridge type contract.
I'm sure there are a number of plays when you look at the tape, where the WRs struggle to get open, and a number where Jones fails to make the play (either because he misses it or he's pressured early).
This is the type of context needed to have an adult conversation about what happened.
While I agree in theory the reality is we don't do this when talking about other teams and those conversations aren't generally halted at "have you watched the all-22 of every packer game?"
But the dude who started this thread couldn't even provide a single example of thing he claims is this obvious and pervasive problem.
Credit to you, you brought into the conversation a meaningful piece of information. And you and I exchanged opinions on it. I can see where you're coming from.
Maybe I give people too much credit. When I start a thread I'm looking to debate and defend a stance.
If Daboll and Schoen want to give him another year, I won't shed any either.
I think Jones is playing smart, efficient football. With the lack of talent at the WR/TE positions, and the issues in pass protection, that's pretty good.
But I've said many times, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Daboll and Kafka get that same production out of a rookie next year.
This is how I feel as well. I'd like to see Jones with more weapons. But not sure if it's smart to make the necessary investment required to get another year of him.
Hard to believe he does not recognize the cost versus benefit at the QB position.
What we do not want is forcing the issue on any QB. Last draft the QB gurus were clamoring for Willis at pick 5. That is a waste of a high resource when a QB like that was available in round 3 as people who understand QB's evaluated.
Jones is getting an average of 3.03 seconds to pass per play. That ranks third best in the NFL right now.
This was debated last week or the week prior. That isn’t time to throw, it’s a misleading title. It’s time until throw and will always increase for mobile QBs. See Lamar, Fields, Wilson, etc.
Jones is getting an average of 3.03 seconds to pass per play. That ranks third best in the NFL right now.
This was debated last week or the week prior. That isn’t time to throw, it’s a misleading title. It’s time until throw and will always increase for mobile QBs. See Lamar, Fields, Wilson, etc.
I didn't see the discussion. And I'm not drawing any specific conclusion. At first glance, it spoke more to me about a better OL and coaching.
According to NextGen's glossary, the definition is:
Quote:
Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded)
Never seen before on tape, going to a no name receiver. They probably practiced it repeatedly. Set it all up. And Jones missed it. Cager was so wide open even a pretty bad pass would have at least led to a completion, if not a lot of YAC.
This is speculation but that play may lead to no contract for Jones.
Ooof. Know Jones was under pressure, but that’s a completion every NFL starter needs to make.
You can see the progression. Fake to SB in the flat and hit Cager on the out and up.
Okay, he missed that. But then Jones has Hudson running free on the deeper cross who scores easily if Jones pulls the trigger. Watch Hudson's reaction, btw. He knows he has an easy score...
Never seen before on tape, going to a no name receiver. They probably practiced it repeatedly. Set it all up. And Jones missed it. Cager was so wide open even a pretty bad pass would have at least led to a completion, if not a lot of YAC.
This is speculation but that play may lead to no contract for Jones.
There are a few reasons to question paying big $s for DJ. I would say accuracy is a reason to keep him.
you guys are getting trolled by the poster who continually wants to have "intellectually honest" debates.
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
You know for this shit gidie gave Terps the other day, the fact this guy is still able to roam this board, post attacks like this and then run away makes no sense. These are the people running people off the board.
I like the Fatman.
I mean, "Clownshoes" was so spot-on.
Never seen before on tape, going to a no name receiver. They probably practiced it repeatedly. Set it all up. And Jones missed it. Cager was so wide open even a pretty bad pass would have at least led to a completion, if not a lot of YAC.
This is speculation but that play may lead to no contract for Jones.
There are a few reasons to question paying big $s for DJ. I would say accuracy is a reason to keep him.
Well, this play puts that accuracy “strength” into question.
I'm sure Burrow will get better in the weeks to come
without Chase but lastnight was ugly. Missed/late throws, taking sacks in FG range, etc - ugly.
The WR separation metrics are interesting - every single WR had more room to operate than our WR's, by a pretty wide margin too. And that's without Chase taking on any doubles. Obviously there's nuances to each game that caused that so it isn't 100% apples to apples, but it does show the gap in talent, IMO.
Has had games like this with Chase this year. I think it’s just a bad game and doesn’t have as much to do with Chase being out as people want to make it out to be.
28 rushes for 77 yards. Went against the formula that had been working.
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
Do we have a receiver that can get open
Well, there have been a few game reviews highlighting plays where WR was wide open and Jones went to another with very tight coverage. Jones also missed on plays trying to hit a receiver with a step on the defender.
Out of a Rookie? I can’t wait to see it. I follow college football religiously. The qb’s coming out either make bad decisions, are not durable, or are not football smart. Remember we are 6-2 because our QB is smart and takes care of the ball. Get ready for a 20 interception season (ask the jet fans ala Zach Wilson). Stroud (will be gone and does not have football instincts). Mr. Alabama who has talent is not durable. Mr. Kentucky (who played at my high school) thinks he can run over anyone and will be standing on the sidelines also banged up. Mr. Fla is just not accurate. I would not trade DJ for Zach Wilson let alone some of these QBs. These QBs (other than Will) have so much more talent week in and week out than their opponent. Not playing with the roster we have. Severe undermanned. Watch what most are wishing for.
Every play do you have eyes
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
No one is open is just a broad claim, and very hard to diagnose from the standard TV view. I'm curious how anyone can make that declaration.
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
Do we have a receiver that can get open
No one is open is just a broad claim, and very hard to diagnose from the standard TV view. I'm curious how anyone can make that declaration.
Do we have any receiver that would start on any other NFL team
If only they'd mustered up those two additional carries :)
Do you need glasses? Apparently so. Let me know if you are struggling financially and need some help paying for them.
Quote:
28 rushes for 77 yards. Went against the formula that had been working.
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
Do we have a receiver that can get open
Not really. The run game created the PA that had assisted the pass game. Today we just did not have that.
Quote:
Can you point to the plays where you saw this?
Do you need glasses? Apparently so. Let me know if you are struggling financially and need some help paying for them.
Then it should be super easy for you to link over the views of the plays where no one is open.
Jones missed a big throw in he first half. That could have led to points.
The better question to ask is who on our team do you think can win coverage. I really can't think of a WR.
Wandale has possible potential to but with Bellinger out and no other clear threat to account for it makes it a challenge imv.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
Quote:
In comment 15891015 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
28 rushes for 77 yards. Went against the formula that had been working.
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
Do we have a receiver that can get open
Not really. The run game created the PA that had assisted the pass game. Today we just did not have that.
But would receivers that can get open assist that?
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
I watched a complete different game I guesss. Jones had time to throw until the last 2 or 3 drives there was more pressure. These wrs stink
Quote:
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Quote:
In comment 15891085 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Can you name a single WR group in the NFL worse than ours? It's a simple question
Would good receivers assist play action?
Oh I agree. I'd just be surprised with a lot of speed, against a bunch of single coverage, if the issue wasn't more pressure.
The TV view shows the QB in the pocket mostly, and it didn't look to me like Jones was chilling while no one could shake free.
I'm happy to be wrong. I'm all eyes and ears for examples of plays where Jones had time to throw and no one was open.
Quote:
In comment 15891085 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Just about EVERY ONE.....case in point, Jones was scrambling for his life looking for a person to pass to....Slayton was jogging away from his defender. JOGGING! I dont think these receivers know how to come back to a ball.
Quote:
In comment 15890988 christian said:
Quote:
Can you point to the plays where you saw this?
Do you need glasses? Apparently so. Let me know if you are struggling financially and need some help paying for them.
Then it should be super easy for you to link over the views of the plays where no one is open.
I think it’d probably be easier to find the few where guys were open.
Quote:
In comment 15891085 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Are you actually being serious lol
Quote:
You seem to disagree. Just say it then. You can tell me what WR's on the Giants scare opponents and beat coverage easily.
Would good receivers assist play action?
If you have good WR's PA is not a necessity with adequate PP. Seattle obviously said we don't respect your WR's and took the run out of the game. Having Neal and Bellinger out certainly made that decision easy.
One of the few games this year where the Giants could not run between the tackles. I don't recall any through the game.
This.
I think Bellinger generates two touchdowns in a game like today's game.
One directly through reception and another by making key first-down catches.
Quote:
.
Oh I agree. I'd just be surprised with a lot of speed, against a bunch of single coverage, if the issue wasn't more pressure.
The TV view shows the QB in the pocket mostly, and it didn't look to me like Jones was chilling while no one could shake free.
I'm happy to be wrong. I'm all eyes and ears for examples of plays where Jones had time to throw and no one was open.
I watched a game different from the game you watched.
Is that the next gen stat that measures the receivers seperation on passes when targeted?
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
Jones had time today. Just seemed like he was staring down his WRs alot today like he used to.
And stop with the "our WRs can't get open". Wes Welker ran a 4.65 and was always open. He was schemed open
I thought the gameplan today was suspect
Quote:
In comment 15891101 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
You seem to disagree. Just say it then. You can tell me what WR's on the Giants scare opponents and beat coverage easily.
Would good receivers assist play action?
If you have good WR's PA is not a necessity with adequate PP. Seattle obviously said we don't respect your WR's and took the run out of the game. Having Neal and Bellinger out certainly made that decision easy.
One of the few games this year where the Giants could not run between the tackles. I don't recall any through the game.
Absolutely beside the point. If we have receivers that get open the offense runs more smoothly.
Do you know the corresponding time Jones had on those targets.
The average separation is an incomplete data point if you don't know why and how long the QB had to throw the ball to the target.
Quote:
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
Jones had time today. Just seemed like he was staring down his WRs alot today like he used to.
And stop with the "our WRs can't get open". Wes Welker ran a 4.65 and was always open. He was schemed open
I thought the gameplan today was suspect
Wes welker would be by far our best receiver
Quote:
.
Do you know the corresponding time Jones had on those targets.
The average separation is an incomplete data point if you don't know why and how long the QB had to throw the ball to the target.
Nope. But like I said it’s by far I their worst game as a unit so that’s an 8 game sample size with 1 extreme outlier. If you don’t think so I got nothing else for you.
Quote:
In comment 15891096 Gmen88 said:
Quote:
In comment 15891085 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Can you name a single WR group in the NFL worse than ours? It's a simple question
Maybe not worst, but same level
Texans
Titans
Atlanta (Pitts is a TE)
Bears
Ravens
Saints (since Michael Thomas never plays)
Steelers
No, I think we need to add someone
I'm also saying that anyone in the NFL can get open within the right scheme
Quote:
as a reason to not take our problem at Wr seriously is pretty funny. 900 receptions, come on guys get out there and do it like Wes!
No, I think we need to add someone
I'm also saying that anyone in the NFL can get open within the right scheme
Explain this scheme that makes any WR open. What are the requirements for it?
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
The average separation is an incomplete data point if you don't know why and how long the QB had to throw the ball to the target.
Nope. But like I said it’s by far I their worst game as a unit so that’s an 8 game sample size with 1 extreme outlier. If you don’t think so I got nothing else for you.
I haven't seen the stats, but I agree with you.
So what's more likely:
1) Basically the same WR group from the last several games got markedly worse against a defense keying the run
2) Down two starting lineman, and the starting TE, the QB had to get the ball out more quickly and had fewer free outlet passes to the TE?
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
Any contribution to the football conversation?
You have a clear agenda against Jones.
Get the basics down on the position and the variables around it.
Jones missed a big throw and if film review you can probably find a couple others but this was not a day where guys were running open and missed.
Be better. Or don't. Your choice.
Yeah they are practice squad players
Quote:
In comment 15891129 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15891096 Gmen88 said:
Quote:
In comment 15891085 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants actually have a bunch of speed at WR. I bet when the usual online suspects review the game, the issue ends up being Seattle put a ton more pressure on Jones and closed the pocket more quickly than the last few opponents.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
The Giants have the worst WR group in the NFL. prove me wrong.
You start a thread making a bold claim. I'm asking what specific plays in the game brought you to that conclusion.
I'm happy to debate the facts and see your side if your can show it.
Can you name a single WR group in the NFL worse than ours? It's a simple question
Maybe not worst, but same level
Texans
Titans
Atlanta (Pitts is a TE)
Bears
Ravens
Saints (since Michael Thomas never plays)
Steelers
Cooks would be our best receiver, Woods would be our best receiver, London would be our best receiver, Mooney would be our best receiver, Duverney would be our best receiver, Olave would be our best receiver, dionate Johnson is one of the top 10 receivers in the NFL.
Are you serious lol
I 100% agree with that. If Scoen picks up a player I hope it's a TE.
The two big upsides I see in the second half of the season 1) Neal coming back 2) If Gates can return to form and upgrade the center position.
I really like Robinson and Slayton. I'm not pretending the WR is good. It's not. But the offense didn't fall apart today because of the WR talent.
I actually thought Jones had a smart, efficient day. Old Jones would have pressed. He let it come to him today.
If not for the James muff, he would have a had a chance to tie the game.
You have a clear agenda against Jones.
Get the basics down on the position and the variables around it.
Jones missed a big throw and if film review you can probably find a couple others but this was not a day where guys were running open and missed.
Be better. Or don't. Your choice.
I thought Jones played really well given the circumstances. You're weird.
Quote:
but primarily the great run game covered up our lack of WR talent. A bad day on the ground showed how bad the unit is.
I 100% agree with that. If Scoen picks up a player I hope it's a TE.
The two big upsides I see in the second half of the season 1) Neal coming back 2) If Gates can return to form and upgrade the center position.
I really like Robinson and Slayton. I'm not pretending the WR is good. It's not. But the offense didn't fall apart today because of the WR talent.
I actually thought Jones had a smart, efficient day. Old Jones would have pressed. He let it come to him today.
If not for the James muff, he would have a had a chance to tie the game.
This loss was on Reece james. but if we had Receivers that could get open we might have had a chance despite that.
Just because we overcame obstacles previously doesnt mean they dont exist. We have the worst WR group in the NFL. That is a fact.
I'd bet the bigger issue is the rag tag offensive line the Giants were forced to start today.
Speed doesn't mean you can get open.
Quote:
You are having another building a clock when someone asks you time.
You have a clear agenda against Jones.
Get the basics down on the position and the variables around it.
Jones missed a big throw and if film review you can probably find a couple others but this was not a day where guys were running open and missed.
Be better. Or don't. Your choice.
I thought Jones played really well given the circumstances. You're weird.
Not really I just understand the game. As the UCONN posts states about the running game which you agreed to I made comments to that in the other thread.
28 rushes for 77 yards and a 2.8 ypc is not going to cut it with this group of WR's.
I have consistently made this point.
30 rushes at over 4.2 does the trick the majority of the time. This was a point of contention for your crew.
I am sure Googs and Gatorade can join the fight.
It's the reality of the game given the circumstances of the Giants WR corps. Today the OL did okay but little on the outside. Without the running game its tough sledding.
The only play where it didn't happen was the bad pass to the fill-in TE who Jones probably had a couple of days to work with
Quote:
Can you point to the plays where you saw this?
The only play where it didn't happen was the bad pass to the fill-in TE who Jones probably had a couple of days to work with
This was a huge miss but agree timing may have been a issue. Still he was so open throw a soft ball.
Injuries along the OL shouldn’t be an excuse right now.
Quote:
In comment 15890988 christian said:
Quote:
Can you point to the plays where you saw this?
The only play where it didn't happen was the bad pass to the fill-in TE who Jones probably had a couple of days to work with
This was a huge miss but agree timing may have been a issue. Still he was so open throw a soft ball.
I agree, still should have been completed
Today versus last week? Versus the last several weeks? I'd start with the 2 starters out on the line and the starting TE out.
No one is open is one of those things that's easily provable. I'm not saying it's true or untrue. I'm saying when I watch the game with the regular TV broadcast, I don't think it's possible to know that. And when a replay is shown, the TV broadcast doesn't show all the possible targets.
Lots of people review the games on YouTube with all 22 angles, and I'm sure we'll get actual answers.
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Logically, stands a good chance if a defense is stacking the box, and playing more 1-1, if the QB is choosing to throw the ball when the defender is closer to the WR, it's because he was hurried.
Not a knock on Jones. Very understandable, they're scraping the barrel for linemen.
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Send Chase and Higgins here and send our receivers to to Cincy. I love to see the results.
What a moronic post. Good to hash this out with Christian a fellow member of the QBGC.
JFC.
Logically, stands a good chance if a defense is stacking the box, and playing more 1-1, if the QB is choosing to throw the ball when the defender is closer to the WR, it's because he was hurried.
Not a knock on Jones. Very understandable, they're scraping the barrel for linemen.
Good points. And there is the defense at the time: zone, soft man, hard man, etc.
Maybe we can trade a 3rd for Chase. After all Burrows is throwing him open. We can send then James and maybe add in Higgins.
How are the analytics on that genius?
Quote:
Separation is a tough read for me.
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Send Chase and Higgins here and send our receivers to to Cincy. I love to see the results.
What a moronic post. Good to hash this out with Christian a fellow member of the QBGC.
JFC.
If you don't mind, can you let me know which receivers we should ignore when it comes to separation?
Thanks in advance.
Maybe we can trade a 3rd for Chase. After all Burrows is throwing him open. We can send then James and maybe add in Higgins.
How are the analytics on that genius?
Rationalize with me here for a second. Don't you think that is part of the success? A QB who has the ability to throw receivers open?
Quote:
In comment 15891591 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Separation is a tough read for me.
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Send Chase and Higgins here and send our receivers to to Cincy. I love to see the results.
What a moronic post. Good to hash this out with Christian a fellow member of the QBGC.
JFC.
If you don't mind, can you let me know which receivers we should ignore when it comes to separation?
Thanks in advance.
Come on Bw. I already have said you have very little understanding of the QB position and offensive football in general.
You post some good stuff in the college game with recruiting but other than that I don't buy what you are selling.
Now if you figure out the impact of the running game, down/distance, etc. and without it you need three components needed; but until you figure out the basics hard for me to answer any question from you.
those two stood out for me.
didnt see much beyond that, but ill rewatch the game later this week.
Come on Bw. I already have said you have very little understanding of the QB position and offensive football in general.
You post some good stuff in the college game with recruiting but other than that I don't buy what you are selling.
Now if you figure out the impact of the running game, down/distance, etc. and without it you need three components needed; but until you figure out the basics hard for me to answer any question from you.
What does your last paragraph have to do with the discussion?
If you find my posts about the game so moronic, which is fine, then why reply at all to me?
If you can't acknowledge that a QB can help overcome separation issues than it seems you may not know as much as you think.
Quote:
Come on Bw. I already have said you have very little understanding of the QB position and offensive football in general.
You post some good stuff in the college game with recruiting but other than that I don't buy what you are selling.
Now if you figure out the impact of the running game, down/distance, etc. and without it you need three components needed; but until you figure out the basics hard for me to answer any question from you.
What does your last paragraph have to do with the discussion?
If you find my posts about the game so moronic, which is fine, then why reply at all to me?
If you can't acknowledge that a QB can help overcome separation issues than it seems you may not know as much as you think.
Good attempt at reverse psychology. What impacts separation? Look at today's game when you consider your answer as a suggestion.
Pretty basic question and I will see what you come up with tomorrow if you choose
Good luck.
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Do you honestly not see the fault in referencing 2 of the most talented receivers in the league here?
Quote:
Separation is a tough read for me.
Last year, two of the "worst" receivers at getting open were Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins.
Yet, each had 1K+ yards receiving, each had over 70 catches and they combined for 19 TDs (13 by Chase).
So why did they succeed despite the separation issue? Well, they are good; but, more importantly to me, they have a QB who throws them open and can fit the ball into tight spots.
In other words, separation can be overcome be accuracy and arm talent.
Do you honestly not see the fault in referencing 2 of the most talented receivers in the league here?
I doubt it.
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
Just get the ball into his hands maybe that gets him going/motivated
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
I'm not arguing it just takes a good QB to offset separation issues. But it certainly helps.
I read all of the time how much Diggs has helped the Buffalo offense. And he does. But the picture being painted around here is Diggs running wide open everywhere and you and I could connect with him. But Diggs was about average last year in separation (better this year, actually)...
But just watch a Buffalo game. Many, many times Allen throws lasers into tight windows where his receivers can make the catch. It's just incredible. Further, he is able to buy time with is scrambling, which allows his receivers more time to create space. And since a DB can't cover a player forever, the coverage breaks down and Allen fires one in there.
I just don't like the conversation being too one-sided and all on the WR. It's both ways - WR AND QB.
those two stood out for me.
didnt see much beyond that, but ill rewatch the game later this week.
Definitely missed Cager.
The one to Bredia I'd like to see with more air where he could run under it, but not sure where the safety was.
Quote:
then we should be seeing great years from a lot more WRs.
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
I'm not arguing it just takes a good QB to offset separation issues. But it certainly helps.
I read all of the time how much Diggs has helped the Buffalo offense. And he does. But the picture being painted around here is Diggs running wide open everywhere and you and I could connect with him. But Diggs was about average last year in separation (better this year, actually)...
But just watch a Buffalo game. Many, many times Allen throws lasers into tight windows where his receivers can make the catch. It's just incredible. Further, he is able to buy time with is scrambling, which allows his receivers more time to create space. And since a DB can't cover a player forever, the coverage breaks down and Allen fires one in there.
I just don't like the conversation being too one-sided and all on the WR. It's both ways - WR AND QB.
Allen really made some bonehead decisions at the end of the game, which to me, took a little bit away from the win.
He was in FG on the last one which was brutal.
Quote:
then we should be seeing great years from a lot more WRs.
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
I'm not arguing it just takes a good QB to offset separation issues. But it certainly helps.
I read all of the time how much Diggs has helped the Buffalo offense. And he does. But the picture being painted around here is Diggs running wide open everywhere and you and I could connect with him. But Diggs was about average last year in separation (better this year, actually)...
But just watch a Buffalo game. Many, many times Allen throws lasers into tight windows where his receivers can make the catch. It's just incredible. Further, he is able to buy time with is scrambling, which allows his receivers more time to create space. And since a DB can't cover a player forever, the coverage breaks down and Allen fires one in there.
I just don't like the conversation being too one-sided and all on the WR. It's both ways - WR AND QB.
I think a major aspect consistently is missed when discussing a quarterback to wide receiver relationship, which is chemistry. Working together to learn the body language and timing of each other. That is something that just simply can't be measured with statistics but is something that is very real. A qb and wr that know each other well can make up for any 'lack' of separation.
I don’t know if you guys caught it but Slayton also fell down on a huge play I think it was a 3rd down pass in the 4th quarter. That stopped a drive as well.
I don’t know if you guys caught it but Slayton also fell down on a huge play I think it was a 3rd down pass in the 4th quarter. That stopped a drive as well.
Next to last drive Slayton fell where we still had a chance to make a one score game/onside kick.
Quote:
then we should be seeing great years from a lot more WRs.
It’s weird that we can cite injuries to other teams as a reason X player is underperforming but it’s off limits with the Giants. I don’t know how anyone that watches football can’t see the difference Adams made in Green Bay between last year and this year and that’s just one example.
I'm not arguing it just takes a good QB to offset separation issues. But it certainly helps.
I read all of the time how much Diggs has helped the Buffalo offense. And he does. But the picture being painted around here is Diggs running wide open everywhere and you and I could connect with him. But Diggs was about average last year in separation (better this year, actually)...
But just watch a Buffalo game. Many, many times Allen throws lasers into tight windows where his receivers can make the catch. It's just incredible. Further, he is able to buy time with is scrambling, which allows his receivers more time to create space. And since a DB can't cover a player forever, the coverage breaks down and Allen fires one in there.
I just don't like the conversation being too one-sided and all on the WR. It's both ways - WR AND QB.
Very few people are saying Allen is all about Diggs being brought in. He is a huge asset though. Not only is he a great WR but he opens up things for other players.
This is true of any outstanding WR. Fundamental football.
Jim Johnson who was a outstanding DC talked about how he could scheme differently when Plax was out. Not only does it impact the pass game it has a impact on the run game.
There are lots of routes on the tree where the QB and WR are tasked with making a play in a tight spot. It's also a data point that can be tremendously skewed by a break away play.
I think "no one is open" is a bit premature, and as sophisticated as saying "Jones sucks" after a game.
Open is a nuanced measurement that requires viewing the plays from the all 22 angle.
LOS touched on something that got his pants in a twist last night, which is the assumption I was blaming Jones. Which I wasn't.
Before laying blame on anyone element, I think it's important to review the pass protection, the routes the WRs were asked to run, and the decisions made by the QB.
Maybe some of you are skilled enough football evaluators to make those assessments in real time from the TV broadcast. That's awesome, it really is. I was asking for more detail on that, and didn't get much in return.
Interestingly I have never said Jones is the clear cut solution moving forward. I recognize how difficult the position and it is not easily solved.
Yesterday they did not have the elements they had when the were successful. Debate is about how much each of those elements contributed. Not LOS throwing a hissy. Your posts pointed to Jones being the biggest factor.
Yesterday they did not have the elements they had when the were successful. Debate is about how much each of those elements contributed. Not LOS throwing a hissy.Your posts pointed to Jones being the biggest factor.
Show me where.
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
You know for this shit gidie gave Terps the other day, the fact this guy is still able to roam this board, post attacks like this and then run away makes no sense. These are the people running people off the board.
Quote:
Yesterday they did not have the elements they had when the were successful. Debate is about how much each of those elements contributed. Not LOS throwing a hissy.Your posts pointed to Jones being the biggest factor.
Show me where.
Go look at your comments about the "scheme" and how the Giants could easily replace Jones with a few QB's in the draft. When you recognize that your comments will make more sense on this thread.
Quote:
you guys are getting trolled by the poster who continually wants to have "intellectually honest" debates.
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
You know for this shit gidie gave Terps the other day, the fact this guy is still able to roam this board, post attacks like this and then run away makes no sense. These are the people running people off the board.
I saw where Terps declared himself done with BBI again last night, btw... ;)
Show me where.
Go look at your comments about the "scheme" and how the Giants could easily replace Jones with a few QB's in the draft. When you recognize that your comments will make more sense on this thread.
Those are two pretty different topics.
I think Jones is competently playing within the role Daboll and Kafka have designed for him. I think he played as well or better yesterday than he has all year.
The Giants got their ass kicked upfront.
The only minor criticism I had of Jones yesterday was on a play where he rolled out, I thought he had an opportunity to throw the TE open if he was a little more patient.
I don't think Jones is irreplaceable, and I think Daboll could do a fine job with a first round, talented player.
That does not = Jones is the reason the offensive stalled yesterday.
I saw where Terps declared himself done with BBI again last night, btw... ;)
He will be back. We all know he will.
Quote:
you guys are getting trolled by the poster who continually wants to have "intellectually honest" debates.
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
You know for this shit gidie gave Terps the other day, the fact this guy is still able to roam this board, post attacks like this and then run away makes no sense. These are the people running people off the board.
FMiC doesn't come on BBI to debate football at all anymore. He just pops in to critisize people, and then runs away.
I'm not a chicken, so I'll never run and tell daddy. But I can't imagine this is the type of behavior that's viewed as productive.
Quote:
Yesterday they did not have the elements they had when the were successful. Debate is about how much each of those elements contributed. Not LOS throwing a hissy.Your posts pointed to Jones being the biggest factor.
Show me where.
Go look at your comments about the "scheme" and how the Giants could easily replace Jones with a few QB's in the draft. When you recognize that your comments will make more sense on this thread.
Those are two pretty different topics.
I think Jones is competently playing within the role Daboll and Kafka have designed for him. I think he played as well or better yesterday than he has all year.
The Giants got their ass kicked upfront.
The only minor criticism I had of Jones yesterday was on a play where he rolled out, I thought he had an opportunity to throw the TE open if he was a little more patient.
I don't think Jones is irreplaceable, and I think Daboll could do a fine job with a first round, talented player.
That does not = Jones is the reason the offensive stalled yesterday.
He missed plays. The QB's job is to make them.
Most games come down to a few plays you make or don't.
He contributed to the loss not making them.
He is however not as easily replaced as you have suggested. It is a tough position that requires a lot of help. Our WR group scare nobody and Bellinger and Neal being out were a huge contributing factor.
You get to a point where "scheme" is not enough and talent deficiencies show up.
Quote:
I saw where Terps declared himself done with BBI again last night, btw... ;)
He will be back. We all know he will.
I know, but I get his frustration with what happened on Saturday.
I forget the thread (think it was one of the thousand DJ threads), but GT posted four innocuous posts and gidie jumped on him for trolling again.
The posts where basically GT saying what he wouldn't pay Jones (very brief), a post linking an Athletic discussion about NYG & Jones (which was excellent) and a brief exchange he and I had about the QBs in the class of 2024.
So, a few of us expressed our confusion to gidie. But he really didn't want to get into the details.
Terps popped in yesterday, and said he felt he was being baited, and announced his intention to leave.
It was just a very strange situation to call out Terps based on all of the other battles waged.
Yeah thats not good. Jones has to see that one.
Looks like three open receivers to me.
SB in the flat and both the WR and TE on the crosses.
Which drive was this?
. - ( New Window )
If we can go back in time and get the pre-Jones Terps i'd say this was a loss, but current Terps isn't interested in talking to anyone, just likes telling people what is and isn't a fact then gets mad when called out on it.
Since he's been gone, along with Googs and some of the other trolls that have been banned, the threads have actually be better IMO.
But I don't think he comes to BBI with the intention to antagonize people, and doesn't actually believe what he saying our doing.
I don't think he's a troll, because I don't think his intentions are bad.
I've learned a lot about football from him and enjoy debating him.
Googs is a moron. Glad he is gone if that is the case.
This is the type of context needed to have an adult conversation about what happened.
This is the type of context needed to have an adult conversation about what happened.
Literally every QB misses open players. Analyzing QBs is challenging for many reasons but one is that you don't know how many guys are open for a QB vs. how many are open for other QBs. Additionally, sometimes you complete a short pass when you had a guy 20 yards downfield wide open. You made a bad play but got a completion.
I think it's helpful to zoom out and look at the stats. Jones is now in his third year where his passing statistics (yards, YPA, touchdowns) are rock bottom for a starting QB. I completely agree the receivers suck. But now we have to make an investment in him. How sure are we he can produce in the passing game? Or do people think that doesn't matter long-term? How much are we willing to invest in being right?
I think Jones can produce touchdowns in the passing game - but that it will result in additional turnovers. I went into the season thinking Jones can't: a) Produce passing stats in-line with a top ten QB, b) can't lead a top third offense, and c) can't produce more TDs without turning the ball over more.
I don't think Jones has repudiated that thesis yet. Maybe he can't given how terrible these wideouts are (I'm open to that thinking but am not convinced).
Lastly, I agree Jones is better this season. We are still 21st in PPG - and that's with Barkley having an All-Pro year. If Jones has top ten caliber weapons, does he get us top ten in PPG? Or is he limited long-term as a passer?
This is the type of context needed to have an adult conversation about what happened.
While I agree in theory the reality is we don't do this when talking about other teams and those conversations aren't generally halted at "have you watched the all-22 of every packer game?"
IMO Jones has a far smaller margin of error than most if not all other QB's in the league given the circumstances/limitations of the offense. He missed some plays yesterday, no question. But from what I saw those misses were magnified by the lack of chances developing throughout the game. This will likely be the case the rest of the season.
If Daboll and Schoen want to give him another year, I won't shed any either.
I think Jones is playing smart, efficient football. With the lack of talent at the WR/TE positions, and the issues in pass protection, that's pretty good.
But I've said many times, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Daboll and Kafka get that same production out of a rookie next year.
Look, guys are missed all the time in the NFL by even the best QBs.
Jones missing Slayton and takes short pass - ( New Window )
Quote:
Looks like three open receivers to me.
SB in the flat and both the WR and TE on the crosses.
That's not three open receivers, play it from the start you'll see SB was the first read and covered.......
You can't take snapshots of the play and say who is open......
That makes the most sense to me.
Think Alex Smith to Mahomes (optimistically).
Sign Jones but a QB draft pick is always in play.
Quote:
I'm sure there are a number of plays when you look at the tape, where the WRs struggle to get open, and a number where Jones fails to make the play (either because he misses it or he's pressured early).
This is the type of context needed to have an adult conversation about what happened.
While I agree in theory the reality is we don't do this when talking about other teams and those conversations aren't generally halted at "have you watched the all-22 of every packer game?"
But the dude who started this thread couldn't even provide a single example of thing he claims is this obvious and pervasive problem.
Credit to you, you brought into the conversation a meaningful piece of information. And you and I exchanged opinions on it. I can see where you're coming from.
Maybe I give people too much credit. When I start a thread I'm looking to debate and defend a stance.
Quote:
In comment 15892448 jintz4life said:
Quote:
Looks like three open receivers to me.
SB in the flat and both the WR and TE on the crosses.
That's not three open receivers, play it from the start you'll see SB was the first read and covered.......
You can't take snapshots of the play and say who is open......
The play was designed for Cager, fwiw. Saqoun was the decoy
Quote:
In comment 15892454 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15892448 jintz4life said:
Quote:
Looks like three open receivers to me.
SB in the flat and both the WR and TE on the crosses.
That's not three open receivers, play it from the start you'll see SB was the first read and covered.......
You can't take snapshots of the play and say who is open......
The play was designed for Cager, fwiw. Saqoun was the decoy
If true, then missing Cager is a clear cut miss...not sure why he didn't throw it.
If Daboll and Schoen want to give him another year, I won't shed any either.
I think Jones is playing smart, efficient football. With the lack of talent at the WR/TE positions, and the issues in pass protection, that's pretty good.
But I've said many times, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Daboll and Kafka get that same production out of a rookie next year.
This is how I feel as well. I'd like to see Jones with more weapons. But not sure if it's smart to make the necessary investment required to get another year of him.
The WRs coming across the crossers were the bigger missed imo. He’s gotta see that instead of taking off when the first read wasn’t open.
What we do not want is forcing the issue on any QB. Last draft the QB gurus were clamoring for Willis at pick 5. That is a waste of a high resource when a QB like that was available in round 3 as people who understand QB's evaluated.
Jones is getting an average of 3.03 seconds to pass per play. That ranks third best in the NFL right now.
Jones is getting an average of 3.03 seconds to pass per play. That ranks third best in the NFL right now.
This was debated last week or the week prior. That isn’t time to throw, it’s a misleading title. It’s time until throw and will always increase for mobile QBs. See Lamar, Fields, Wilson, etc.
Quote:
on NextGen:
Jones is getting an average of 3.03 seconds to pass per play. That ranks third best in the NFL right now.
This was debated last week or the week prior. That isn’t time to throw, it’s a misleading title. It’s time until throw and will always increase for mobile QBs. See Lamar, Fields, Wilson, etc.
I didn't see the discussion. And I'm not drawing any specific conclusion. At first glance, it spoke more to me about a better OL and coaching.
According to NextGen's glossary, the definition is:
Yep, and when the margin is so slim those throws can’t be missed.
This is speculation but that play may lead to no contract for Jones.
You can see the progression. Fake to SB in the flat and hit Cager on the out and up.
Okay, he missed that. But then Jones has Hudson running free on the deeper cross who scores easily if Jones pulls the trigger. Watch Hudson's reaction, btw. He knows he has an easy score...
Just throwing the receiver open... ;)
Just throwing the receiver open... ;)
The special ones can do that.
This is speculation but that play may lead to no contract for Jones.
There are a few reasons to question paying big $s for DJ. I would say accuracy is a reason to keep him.
Quote:
you guys are getting trolled by the poster who continually wants to have "intellectually honest" debates.
Yet - he wants proof that WR's weren't open!
Feed him - he'll be on a roll for the next several days, I'm sure. Give him carrots - it might improve his fucking sight.
You know for this shit gidie gave Terps the other day, the fact this guy is still able to roam this board, post attacks like this and then run away makes no sense. These are the people running people off the board.
I mean, "Clownshoes" was so spot-on.
I suppose it's now "Clown heels?"
Quote:
Burrow just hit Chris Evans, RB, on a go route with a DB draped all over him for 25 yards. Perfect throw.
Just throwing the receiver open... ;)
The special ones can do that.
I think he's hesitant, which isn't good.
But, we have the rest of the season...or rather he does, to fix that.
Just throwing the receiver open... ;)
He also threw a pick and has a #2 and #3 on the roster who would be by far and away the best WR on the Giants.
Threw for close to 500 with a true #1 last week, rest of the team is the same today.
Quote:
Never seen before on tape, going to a no name receiver. They probably practiced it repeatedly. Set it all up. And Jones missed it. Cager was so wide open even a pretty bad pass would have at least led to a completion, if not a lot of YAC.
This is speculation but that play may lead to no contract for Jones.
There are a few reasons to question paying big $s for DJ. I would say accuracy is a reason to keep him.
Well, this play puts that accuracy “strength” into question.
The WR separation metrics are interesting - every single WR had more room to operate than our WR's, by a pretty wide margin too. And that's without Chase taking on any doubles. Obviously there's nuances to each game that caused that so it isn't 100% apples to apples, but it does show the gap in talent, IMO.
We got a first down on that play. You really have confidence that Slayton can catch now?
Quote:
big play opportunities Jones missing Slayton and takes short pass - ( New Window )
We got a first down on that play. You really have confidence that Slayton can catch now?
Slayton has been good the past few weeks.
Headline is Jones missed a number of opportunities when the pass targets were free. He had his highest number of poor throws of the season.
This shouldn't be a surprise, with the starting TE out, and two lineman out, it was a tough game.
Jones was sacked 5 times, and pressured double digit times for the first time since the Dallas game.
And just to be clear, this isn't about blaming Jones, I am not. But the no one is open head line turns out to be an incomplete read.
Quote:
28 rushes for 77 yards. Went against the formula that had been working.
Let's hope a little tired from all the travel but Neal and Bellinger were missed.
Regroup. Maybe they saw enough of Gates and he responds well tomorrow that he can be inserted. They really struggled with getting any type of inside runs today.
Do we have a receiver that can get open
Quote:
There were 2 receivers open and Barkley (initially faked a screen) was wide open with a lot of space. Jones went for the 1 guy with double coverage.